1 Friday, 30 August 2002
2 [Status Conference]
3 [Open session]
4 [The accused entered court]
5 --- Upon commencing at 2.45 p.m.
6 JUDGE ROBINSON: Let the Registrar call the case, please.
7 THE REGISTRAR: Good afternoon, Your Honour. This is case number,
8 IT-95-8/1-PT, the Prosecutor versus Dusan Fustar, Predrag Banovic, and
9 Dusko Knezevic.
10 JUDGE ROBINSON: Appearances.
11 MS. BODSON: [Interpretation] Mr. President, for the Keraterm case,
12 Skye Winner, who is the case manager, Sureta Chana, as Prosecution
13 counsel. My name is Bodson, I am the lead counsel in this case, and we
14 are also assisted for this hearing by Ms. Joanna Korner.
15 JUDGE ROBINSON: Thank you, and for the Defence.
16 MR. SCUDDER: My name is Theodore Scudder, and I am here on behalf
17 of the defendant, Dusan Fustar.
18 MR. MORAN: Tom Moran, Your Honour, I'm appointed to represent Mr.
20 MR. BABIC: [Interpretation] Jovan Babic.
21 THE INTERPRETER: The microphone was off.
22 JUDGE ROBINSON: The microphone was off for the last counsel.
23 Please repeat.
24 MR. BABIC: [Interpretation] My name is Jovan Babic. I am
25 representing Predrag Banovic in this case.
1 JUDGE ROBINSON: Thank you. We have a number of matters to
2 consider. And to the extent that we can decide, I have a list that I will
3 go through. The information which I'll give is largely based on the
4 preparatory meetings held between the senior legal officer and counsel. I
5 may call on particular counsel, but if I don't, and either counsel has a
6 matter to raise, feel free to raise it.
7 The first matter is the amendment of the indictment and the motion
8 for joinder. Many matters rest on the resolution of this, and I am to say
9 that the Trial Chamber will be giving a decision on this within the next
10 two weeks. We will not have any oral argument on this.
11 The second matter is the filing of the pretrial brief. Dates have
12 been set, and those dates were vacated because it was more sensible to
13 await the determination of the question of joinder. So right now, we are
14 not in a position to set new dates. But I would like to give an
15 indicative date, assuming that the decision is given on joinder within the
16 next two weeks, then it seems to me that the Prosecutor would have some
17 two months after the joinder decision, which would take us into
18 mid-November, and the Defence one month after that, to the end of January.
19 This is only indicative, and we must await definitive dates following the
20 decision on joinder.
21 The question of disclosure, witness statements, under Rule 66 (A)
22 (i), all statements have been disclosed in both English and B/C/S without
23 redaction, and the Prosecution filed a notice of compliance with Rule 66
24 (A)(i) on the 25th of July with respect of Knezevic, the last accused to be
25 brought into custody, and copies of all supporting materials that
1 accompanied the second amended indictment were disclosed to counsel of the
3 Rule 66 (A)(ii), at the last Status Conference, the Prosecutor was
4 granted an extension of time until the 15th of June to comply with its
5 obligation. And the request was granted. So I'd like to hear from the
6 Prosecutor whether she has discharged that duty.
7 MS. BODSON: [Interpretation] Yes, Mr. President. As regards the
8 accused Fustar and Banovic, we have fulfilled this obligation; in
9 particular, the accused -- these accused have received copies of
10 statements of 20 witnesses out of 27 who will be called by the
11 Prosecution. That concerns both Rule 66 and 68. Also, curriculum
12 vitae of expert witnesses and expert witness reports in form of written
13 statements pursuant to Rules -- to the relevant Rules, also
14 statements of Mr. Clark and Weiss [phoen] have also been disclosed. We
15 have a problem concerning the defence of the accused Knezevic. He has
16 been assigned a counsel, Mr. Moran, whose mandate is limited, and will
17 expire in two weeks, as far as I know. We have transmitted to Mr.
18 Knezevic the documents pursuant to Rule 66 (A)(i), but for the last part,
19 we have to transmit five binders who are here behind me, and we would like
20 to hear from Mr. Moran to whom we should disclose these documents and by
21 what date. We have not received any response to this date, but we would
22 like to know how to proceed so that the three accused can be given
23 simultaneously the same documents.
24 As regards the remainder of the evidence to be disclosed, we are
25 still inquiring about the six remaining witnesses, and we expect to finish
1 this job on the 15th of September, which will enable us to disclose the
2 remaining evidence by late November, subject to any problems that may
4 We have also received 19 out of 24 translations of the remaining
5 documents who are to be transmitted to the Defence. We are still waiting
6 for these translations to be given to us. As regards the seven new
7 witnesses that I have mentioned a moment ago, there are still translations
8 pending, and that will also be disclosed as soon as its finished.
9 As regards the problem concerning the transcript of the case
10 Keraterm I, these transcripts have been provided to the Defence in
11 English. We are in the process of receiving B/C/S translations of these
12 transcripts. And as soon as we have everything together, the entire
13 material will be disclosed to the Defence. I think that that concludes
14 what I had to say in respect of the disclosure of evidence.
15 JUDGE ROBINSON: Thank you very much. You have really given us a
16 rundown of your entire list of duties. I still intend to go through the
17 matters individually. One issue that was raised relates to Mr. Moran.
18 MR. MORAN: Yes, sir.
19 JUDGE ROBINSON: I understand that your assignment will be
20 extended. Now, I know that there is a pending motion, and that is going
21 to be determined by the Chamber as soon as possible. But my information
22 that I have just received from the Registrar is that your assignment will
23 be extended.
24 MR. MORAN: Your Honour, I have been orally informed of that. I
25 have not seen the decision yet, but I'm sure that it's coming from OLAD.
12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and
13 English transcripts.
1 JUDGE ROBINSON: Yes. Thank you very much.
2 MR. MORAN: Yes, Your Honour.
3 JUDGE ROBINSON: That's the accused --
4 MR. MORAN: Knezevic, Your Honour.
5 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Knezevic. Do you want to say something,
6 Mr. Knezevic?
7 THE ACCUSED KNEZEVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, please, Your Honour.
8 Let me first bid good afternoon to everybody present in the courtroom. I
9 do not want to take too much of your time. I do not wish Mr. Moran to
10 represent me before this International Tribunal. I have not given him my
11 power of attorney. I have given this document to another person, another
12 lawyer, whom I wish to represent me. I do not want any misunderstanding
13 or any problems, and that was the reason why I wanted to address the
15 JUDGE ROBINSON: Thank you very much, Mr. Knezevic. As I just
16 indicated, the Chamber is seised of the motion that you have filed
17 relating to this matter. And the Chamber will be making a decision on
18 this issue within the shortest time.
19 Going down my list, experts, the four experts, and my information
20 is that all expert reports have been obtained, translated, and transmitted
21 to the Defence.
22 Exhibits, according to the OTP, there are about 30 exhibits. And
23 the OTP has been advised that these will have to be disclosed, copies
24 provided in B/C/S with the pretrial brief. And the translations done when
25 the documents are tendered.
1 Rule 68 material, no problems have been raised.
2 Reciprocal disclosure, not triggered.
3 Rule 92 bis, the Prosecutor is apparently of the view that most of
4 the witnesses will testify as to the acts and conduct of the accused. And
5 thus, Rule 92 bis is not suitable. But I would encourage the parties that
6 if agreement can be reached on certain facts relating to the conditions in
7 the camp, then obviously we should benefit from the previous trial by
8 using transcript evidence. And if agreement cannot be reached, then the
9 position should be reviewed, and perhaps ways of considering -- presenting
10 the evidence, including Rule 92 bis, would be utilised.
11 Agreed facts, I don't know whether any of the parties wish to say
12 anything at this stage, particularly in view of the fact that the question
13 of the indictment has not yet been settled.
14 Yes, Ms. Bodson.
15 MS. BODSON: [Interpretation] Yes, Mr. President. Your Honour will
16 remember that during the last Status Conference in early May, I mentioned
17 a list of adjudicated facts that the Prosecution had prepared and
18 submitted to the two accused, Fustar and Banovic. Since that period of
19 time, the case has been changed, the presentation of the case has changed,
20 and I was thinking of submitting a new list of agreed facts to the
21 Defence. But I should like to wait for the decision of the Chamber on the
22 motion for joinder. I think it is a bit too premature to submit all of
23 this right now, in particular to Mr. Moran, because we do not know at this
24 point whether the two cases will be joined or not. But as soon as we get
25 the decision on the motion for joinder, we will hold a meeting with the
1 three Defence counsel. If there are no positive results following this
2 meeting, then we will submit a motion for judicial notice within the
3 relevant regulations.
4 I should like to raise one more issue regarding the disclosure of
5 evidence of Mr. Knezevic because I have not heard the answer of Mr. Moran
6 as to how we should disclose to him the evidence that is ready. I don't
7 know what modalities he wishes to use in this case. We just heard
8 Mr. Knezevic regarding the assignment of counsel, Mr. Moran. But I still
9 don't know what to do. I should like to have an answer to this, please.
10 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Moran is counsel of record, and an issue has
11 been raised, and that is going to be settled by the Chamber. Until it is
12 settled, he is counsel, so you will deal with him. And as to the
13 modalities, no doubt you can discuss that with him informally.
14 MS. BODSON: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President.
15 JUDGE ROBINSON: The length of the trial, I think on the last
16 occasion, the Prosecutor had indicated three to four weeks, based on 20
17 witnesses at one per day. Might be a little change in that, but nothing
18 very significant.
19 That completes my list. But I ask whether any counsel would have
20 any other matter to raise at this time, before I call on the accused.
21 MS. BODSON: [Interpretation] Mr. President, with your permission,
22 it seems to me that the length of the trial that you have just indicated,
23 three to four weeks with three accused is somewhat short. I think it
24 would take approximately six weeks to two months. But this is just an
25 estimate of mine.
1 JUDGE ROBINSON: Yes, well all these matters can be better
2 determined after the joinder issue.
3 Can I ask then the accused Banovic whether there is any matter
4 relating to your mental or physical condition, or indeed any other matter
5 that you wish to raise. You've already raised the question of counsel,
6 so, you don't need to mention that again. Is there another matter that
7 you wish to raise, Mr. Banovic?
8 THE ACCUSED BANOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I don't have
9 any other matter to raise at this point in time.
10 JUDGE ROBINSON: Thank you very much.
11 Mr. Fustar, is there any matter that you wish to raise?
12 THE ACCUSED FUSTAR: [Interpretation] There is nothing I wish to
13 raise at this point in time. So far everything has been good.
14 JUDGE ROBINSON: And Mr. Knezevic. And the reference I made
15 earlier should have been to you in relation to the question of counsel.
16 THE ACCUSED KNEZEVIC: [Interpretation] I said I didn't want
17 Mr. Moran to represent me. And that is all I wish to say at this moment.
18 JUDGE ROBINSON: We are already seised of that. Thank you very
20 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, may I just raise one matter in relation
21 to Mr. Knezevic. We noticed that in the Status Conference listed in the
22 Gruban case, Mr. Knezevic's name does not appear. We take it that's a
23 mistake because he should be present.
24 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honour, he has been informed and both the
25 counsel and accused will be present.
1 MS. KORNER: Thank you.
2 JUDGE ROBINSON: That matter is settled. The last matter is the
3 date of the next Status Conference. That, too, will to a certain extent
4 will be influenced by a decision on the joinder issue. But a date would
5 have to be fixed, and that is no later than the 28th of December to comply
6 with the rules. And I'd like to indicate that the date would be Monday,
7 the 16th of November, for the next -- 16th of December, Monday the 16th of
8 December, for the next Status Conference.
9 If there is no other issue, then the hearing is adjourned. Senior
10 legal officer.
11 [Trial Chamber and legal officer confer]
12 JUDGE ROBINSON: And for those of you who will be involved in the
13 next hearing, we'll resume at 25 minutes to four.
14 --- Whereupon the Status Conference adjourned at
15 3.06 p.m.