Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 7343

1 Tuesday, 24 February 2004

2 [Open session]

3 [The accused entered court]

4 [The witness entered court]

5 --- Upon commencing at 2.18 p.m.

6 JUDGE LIU: Call the case, please, Mr. Court Deputy.

7 THE REGISTRAR: Good afternoon, Your Honours. This is Case Number

8 IT-02-60-T, the Prosecutor versus Vidoje Blagojevic and Dragan Jokic.

9 JUDGE LIU: Thank you very much. I think we will continue the

10 proceedings first. And when we finish this witness, there might be some

11 time for us to deal with other matters.

12 Yes, Mr. Karnavas -- yes, Mr. Waespi.

13 MR. WAESPI: Yes, Mr. President. I -- with your leave, I have

14 asked Mr. Karnavas yesterday, I would just like to ask one more question

15 as wrapping up my evidence in-chief.

16 JUDGE LIU: Mr. Karnavas, could I get confirmation from you.

17 MR. KARNAVAS: Certainly. If Mr. Waespi represents that I gave

18 the okay, that's okay with me.

19 JUDGE LIU: Thank you.

20 Mr. Stojanovic.

21 MR. STOJANOVIC: [Interpretation] We agree, Your Honours. We were

22 asked the same question yesterday by Mr. Karnavas.

23 JUDGE LIU: Yes, Mr. Waespi, you may proceed.

24 MR. WAESPI: Thank you, Mr. President.


Page 7344

1 [Witness answered through interpreter]

2 Examined by Mr. Waespi: [Continued]

3 Q. Just one question, Mr. Simic. You told us yesterday that you were

4 involved in the reburial of the victims of the bodies from Glogova to

5 Zeleni Jadar. Do you remember that?

6 A. I was just driving from Glogova to Zeleni Jadar, but I didn't take

7 part in the excavation works.

8 Q. Yes, I understand that. Now, can you tell us how long did that

9 last? Was it just one evening or was it more?

10 A. Two or three evenings.

11 MR. WAESPI: Thank you, Mr. President. No further questions.

12 JUDGE LIU: Thank you.

13 Mr. Karnavas, now it's your turn.

14 MR. KARNAVAS: Thank you. Thank you, Your Honour.

15 Cross-examined by Mr. Karnavas:

16 Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Simic.

17 A. Good afternoon.

18 Q. I just have a few questions to ask you, and I would like to work

19 backwards from your testimony yesterday to the proofing notes to the

20 statement that you gave the Prosecutor. So we're going to go in that

21 order more or less. Okay.

22 A. All right.

23 Q. Now, as I understand it, you were born in Bratunac. Correct?

24 A. In a village near Bratunac.

25 Q. And you went to school in Bratunac, primary school?

Page 7345

1 A. Yes, primary school.

2 Q. And then as I understand it you went to Belgrade after that to

3 high school?

4 A. Yes. It was vocational occupation school.

5 Q. And that's where you picked up the trade of a driver and equipment

6 operator. Correct?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. And prior to the war and even during the war, you were working in

9 that capacity as a driver/equipment operator for the Sase mine or mining

10 company. Correct?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. And in fact, as I understand it, you were with that company all

13 the way throughout the war. You were working with them?

14 A. I worked on and off.

15 Q. All right. And now I understand it that you're still on the

16 waiting list of that company, although the company is in the process of

17 being privatised. Correct?

18 A. That is correct.

19 Q. Now, as I understand it, during the war, as you indicated

20 yesterday, there was a tragedy in your family where several members of

21 your family were killed. Correct?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. And I understand it that given the tradition that exists in this

24 part of the world, that you, being one of the surviving males, would have

25 the responsibility to take care of the family members. Correct?

Page 7346

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. To make sure that your brother's children, for instance, are taken

3 care of, that there's food on the table for them, and all the other

4 relatives. Correct?

5 A. That's correct.

6 Q. And during the war, in fact, that's exactly what you were doing,

7 you were trying to provide, as you're trying today to provide, for all of

8 your family members as best you can with the salary, what little it is.

9 Correct?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. And also during the war, when a tragedy such as the one that fell

12 on your family would occur, if there were few or only one male left it

13 would be the custom, more or less, to ensure that that surviving male, the

14 one such as yourself, would not be placed in harm's way by having to serve

15 on the front line, but rather would be in a position where they could

16 provide some community service but not be in the line of fire militarily.

17 Correct?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. And for those reasons - I would assume, looking at your background

20 and based on my investigation - that that is why, in July 1995, you are

21 working with the company that you had been employed with for several years

22 even prior to the war. Correct?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. And on occasion, because of the type of work, or the equipment I

25 should say, that this company had and because of the type of skills that

Page 7347

1 you had, specifically driving and knowing about heavy equipment, being on

2 equipment operator, there were times when you were asked as part of your

3 contribution to be involved in work obligation with the civil protection.

4 Correct?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And in fact we have at least a couple of instances, one

7 specifically just to name one of them, yesterday you indicated that at

8 some point you were asked to go to Srebrenica to assist in cleaning up the

9 town. Do you recall stating that?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. And you were ordered by your director, the director of the Sase

12 mining company, to report to the civil protection or to a utility company

13 and that's how you ended up going to Srebrenica and carrying out those

14 functions. Correct?

15 A. That's correct.

16 Q. Now, yesterday you also indicated to us that you were a member of

17 the 3rd Battalion of the Bratunac Brigade. Do you recall making that

18 statement?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. And if I were to look on the roster of the 3rd -- of the

21 Bratunac Brigade, in fact I would be able to find your name handwritten in

22 at the bottom of it, correct, in the list for July 1995? Would I find

23 your name in there?

24 A. It should be there.

25 Q. Okay. And if I could now show you just one of the pages from what

Page 7348

1 has been previously marked as P165, if I could show it to you. And I

2 should -- we shouldn't put this on the ELMO because it was filed under

3 seal, but if you could just look at it. If you could just look at the

4 bottom of the page, and I believe I provided enough copies for everyone.

5 On number 78, is that your name, sir? The last page -- the very last

6 page.

7 MR. KARNAVAS: Mr. Usher, if you could -- if you could just hand

8 this to the gentleman.

9 Sir, Mr. Usher, if you could just hand this to the gentleman,

10 because there are more than the other documents in there.

11 Q. To je to? That is it?

12 A. That's it.

13 Q. So that is your name, is it not, sir?

14 A. Yes, it is.

15 Q. And I notice that it's written in. Correct?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. And if you could be so kind first of all to go all the way up to

18 the top and read that one line, the first line, to us so that we can have

19 it translated for the Court.

20 Okay. Let me read it for you, sir. Do you see where it says:

21 "List of the persons in the reserve structure of the 3rd Infantry

22 Battalion, 6th Infantry Company for materiel security for July 1995."

23 Is that what's on the top of the page, sir?

24 JUDGE LIU: Yes, Mr. Waespi.

25 MR. WAESPI: Just to make it clear. Although it's a Prosecution

Page 7349

1 Exhibit tendered under seal, I don't have a translation. I guess we

2 should have provided translation, but now it appears that Mr. Karnavas is

3 reading in English. So if we could be provided with that translation,

4 that would be helpful.

5 MR. KARNAVAS: Well, there's one of two ways of doing it. One is

6 for me to read it and for him to verify it. And another one is for me to

7 introduce it. Either way, if Mr. Waespi just cooled his jets a little

8 bit, I will get to it, Your Honour.

9 JUDGE LIU: I think the best way is for the witness to read it --

10 MR. KARNAVAS: I did, Your Honour, and I was waiting for it,

11 although the witness is having some problems finding it.

12 JUDGE LIU: You have to be more patient.

13 MR. KARNAVAS: I apologise, Your Honour. Perhaps I'm a little off

14 today.

15 Q. Could you please read the first line, sir, after the title:

16 "List." Could you please read it aloud so we can hear it, sir, so it can

17 be translated into English.

18 A. "List of the persons of the reserve structure of the 3rd Infantry

19 Battalion. B6 Infantry Company for materiel security, July 1995 -- July

20 1995."

21 Q. Okay. Thank you. Now, if we go down to number 78, which reflects

22 your name and we go all the way to the far right corner we see a name

23 there written in, handwritten in, as well. Do you recognise that name,

24 sir?

25 A. 31: Simic. I can't read very well.

Page 7350

1 Q. Well -- do you recognise the name, sir?

2 THE INTERPRETER: Could the witness please speak up.

3 MR. KARNAVAS: Maybe one of the microphones is not turned on.

4 Q. Sir, do you recognise that signature to be your wife's signature

5 or your wife's name?

6 A. Yes, that's her name.

7 Q. That's her name. Exactly. And her name is placed there, because

8 by having her name there it allows her to collect the rations that would

9 be given to those that would be on a list -- on the reserve list.

10 Correct?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. And those rations were badly needed, particularly in your case,

13 because even though you were working full time with this mining company,

14 this enabled you, by being on this list of the 3rd Battalion of the

15 Bratunac Brigade, it allowed you and your wife to get extra rations to

16 help out with the entire family that you had -- that you were providing

17 for during those days. Correct?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. So in essence, sir, in essence, sir, even though you were written

20 down on paper as being a member of the Bratunac Brigade 3rd Battalion, 6th

21 Company, in essence you weren't really performing any functions with the

22 Bratunac Brigade, but rather you were on paper, in name only, in order to

23 provide assistance to the family. Correct?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Thank you.

Page 7351

1 And so when you were asked, for instance, to go and assist the day

2 or two days or whatever the day was after the fall of Srebrenica to assist

3 in this burial process, a process which you were not aware of at the time,

4 you were not working as a member of the Bratunac Brigade, but rather your

5 director had sent you to the utilities company and then from there to

6 report in front of the Bratunac Brigade headquarters. And this was part

7 of a working obligation. Correct?

8 A. That's correct.

9 Q. Okay. Now, let's talk about that particular day. On that day, as

10 I understand your testimony, you were at work, and on that particular day

11 you were working on the machinery because part of your job is not just to

12 drive but also maintenance. Correct?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. And at some point you saw some military police in a car. Is that

15 correct?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Did you see Momir Nikolic on that occasion?

18 A. I didn't see him in the mine.

19 Q. Okay. Now, just so we understand, because I haven't been there

20 and I'm sure most of us here haven't been there, but is there an office

21 where your director would be, where the telephones are, the fax machines,

22 a place that's distinct and away from where the equipment is located?

23 A. The director had his office on the floor, but I don't think his

24 telephone was working at the time.

25 Q. Okay. From where you were and from where -- what you were doing,

Page 7352

1 were you able to see who was coming to and from your director's office?

2 A. We were probably some 20 or 30 metres from the office building, in

3 fact, in the workshop where the machines and equipment were. I just saw

4 these policemen coming in and out.

5 Q. Okay. Now, did everybody -- I take it everyone that you saw had a

6 uniform. Correct?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Now, did everyone -- and you recognised them as police

9 officers -- as military police officers yesterday, you indicated, because

10 of the very distinctive white belt that they wear. Correct?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Did every single one of them have a white belt, or were there one

13 or two that did not, if you recall?

14 A. I can't remember exactly. I suppose they all had them.

15 Q. Okay. Well -- and here's where I'm going to ask you, sir -- and I

16 know that you're nervous and I know that you want to do the best job that

17 you can, but I'm not asking you to guess or to speculate, only what you

18 recall. And if you don't recall, that's a good answer as well: I don't

19 recall. Okay? So there's no sense in trying to guess. So let me pose

20 the question again: First, were you able to see and did you see everyone

21 that came to see the director on that particular day?

22 A. I couldn't see everyone.

23 Q. All right. And from reading your testimony and reading your

24 statement, one gets the conclusion that you did not recognise anyone.

25 Correct?

Page 7353

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. In fact, the only person that you do recognise on that -- during

3 that particular day is Momir Nikolic. Correct?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. And I take it Bratunac is a pretty small town. Correct?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. And so it's very difficult for you to walk down the street and not

8 recognise people that you grew up with, went to grade school with, played

9 football with, gone to church with. Correct?

10 A. This is not clear to me.

11 Q. Okay. Well, let me try to be -- break it down. Given that

12 Bratunac Brigade is pretty small and given that you're from Bratunac,

13 would it be fair to say that when you walked down the street in Bratunac

14 you recognised people?

15 A. Well, I didn't have much opportunity to walk around Bratunac. We

16 were dispatched some 7 kilometres away from the town, particularly during

17 the war.

18 Q. Okay. Sir, I'm not talking about the war. The point I'm trying

19 to make is: You're from Bratunac, we know that the military police of the

20 Bratunac Brigade were from Bratunac, and yet from your testimony and from

21 your opportunity to observe and be near all those military police, you did

22 not recognise one single person. Correct?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. And so when you said at some point that they were military police

25 from the Bratunac Brigade, were you aware, sir, that in Bratunac at that

Page 7354

1 point in time there were military police dressed with white belts that

2 were from the Drina Corps? Were you aware of that?

3 A. No, I wasn't.

4 Q. And so would it be fair to say - and I don't want to put words in

5 your mouth - but would it be fair to say that this is an assumption on

6 your part that those police officers, military police officers, were from

7 the Bratunac Brigade?

8 A. Yes, that's what I assumed.

9 Q. Okay. And so you don't know for a fact -- now, do you know a

10 gentleman by the name of Beara, Colonel Beara?

11 A. I don't know.

12 Q. Okay. But you did know Nikolic?

13 A. Yes, I did.

14 Q. He's from Bratunac as well, isn't he?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. I think he's a little older than you, maybe by a year or two. But

17 more or less you must have grown up together. Correct?

18 A. I used to see him. Sometimes he would fish on the Drina. I heard

19 that he was a teacher, but I don't think that he taught anything.

20 Q. Okay. But it would be fair to say that when you see him you know

21 him?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. And it's your testimony, as you indicated in the -- in your

24 statement that Momir Nikolic was the one that was there on that particular

25 day giving directions. Correct?

Page 7355

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And I take it because it was Momir Nikolic, you assumed that he

3 was there on behalf of or supervising the military police. Correct?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Now, there were other officers as well, were there not?

6 A. Yes, there were, but I didn't recognise anyone.

7 Q. Precisely. So you don't know whether they were from the

8 Drina Corps, such as Popovic and Kosoric, or from the Main Staff, such as

9 Beara, on that particular day. Correct?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. And because you were asked to go from the utilities company to the

12 head of -- to in front of the Bratunac Brigade headquarters and then from

13 there to Kravica, would it be fair to say, sir, that again you assumed

14 that these orders came from the command or the commander of the

15 Bratunac Brigade?

16 A. I assumed they were from the command.

17 Q. Okay. You assumed. And this assumption is just based on the fact

18 that you were asked to go to this particular location, which was the

19 Bratunac Brigade headquarters outside, and you saw someone like

20 Momir Nikolic, who you knew was involved with or supervising the military

21 police. Correct?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. And so from that, the logical assumption must have been in your

24 mind when you were talking to the Prosecutors only a month ago was that if

25 you're in front of the Bratunac Brigade headquarters and there is

Page 7356

1 Momir Nikolic, and in your mind Momir Nikolic is engaged with the military

2 police, obviously this must have been an order issued by or on behalf of

3 the commander of the Bratunac Brigade?

4 A. How should I know whether it was the commander of the

5 Bratunac Brigade or ? I don't know, I don't know that.

6 Q. Did you know who the commander of the Bratunac Brigade was at the

7 time?

8 A. Yes. It was Colonel Vidoje Blagojevic.

9 Q. Okay. Did you know him at the time?

10 A. I didn't really know him. Perhaps I just saw him in passing. I

11 didn't know him very well.

12 Q. Okay. You didn't see him on that day, did you, sir?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Yes meaning that you did not see him?

15 A. That's right, I didn't see him.

16 Q. Okay. In fact, you did not see him at any point during this

17 period when you were engaged with the --

18 A. I didn't see him at any point.

19 Q. Thank you.

20 Now -- but you vividly recall Nikolic - I just want to make sure

21 that we understand that point - on that particular day when you had to go

22 to Kravica?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. I'm going to ask you a question and here perhaps you might be able

25 to help us out, I don't know. But the Prosecution here has represented

Page 7357

1 Nikolic to be a rather truthful character, shedding light where darkness

2 exists, and Nikolic has stated in his testimony -- or I should say he

3 hasn't stated, there's nothing in his testimony, that he was involved on

4 the burial process in Kravica.

5 MR. KARNAVAS: And for the record, Your Honours, I wish to point

6 out specifically, and I invite everyone's attention to look at the

7 transcript from September 23rd, at pages 1733 to 1742 and

8 September -- that was the direct examination. And on cross-examination,

9 September 29, 2003, from pages 2126 to 2144. Because there's nothing in

10 there that he was involved in this process.

11 (redacted)

12 (redacted)

13 (redacted)

14 MR. WAESPI: Mr. President.

15 JUDGE LIU: Yes, Mr. Waespi.

16 MR. WAESPI: Just one comment. I think it's improper for

17 the -- for Mr. Karnavas to give his opinion about the truthfulness of a

18 Prosecution witness and then ask the witness to comment on that. How can

19 he do that?

20 And second, the witness repeated again just before that he saw

21 Mr. Nikolic. So I don't see why he has to be asked again about this

22 point. He made his answer clear.

23 JUDGE LIU: Yes, Mr. Karnavas. I think everything is very clear.

24 MR. KARNAVAS: Very well, Your Honour.

25 JUDGE LIU: And you don't have to make certain comments on other

Page 7358

1 witnesses in front of this witness in order to get what you want from this

2 witness.

3 MR. KARNAVAS: Well, I was merely commenting what the Prosecution

4 assumed of the witness, but I agree, Your Honour, I will move on. I think

5 I made my point. And I wanted the record to be very clear, so lest that

6 we forget what happened previously.

7 MR. WAESPI: Perhaps --


9 MR. WAESPI: If we briefly could go into private session for a --

10 MR. KARNAVAS: That was the next point.

11 JUDGE LIU: Yes.

12 We'll go into private session, please.

13 [Private session]

14 (redacted)

15 (redacted)

16 (redacted)

17 (redacted)

18 (redacted)

19 (redacted)

20 (redacted)

21 (redacted)

22 (redacted)

23 (redacted)

24 (redacted)

25 (redacted)

Page 7359

1 (redacted)

2 [Open session]


4 Q. Now, sir, a couple of other points. When you -- when you finished

5 your work in Kravica, you took your truck and you parked it, as I

6 understand it, about a thousand metres away from the headquarters of the

7 Bratunac Brigade. Correct?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. And when you had said in your statement that you had parked it by

10 the Bratunac Brigade, that was an error on your part; you had misspoken.

11 Correct?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Okay. Now -- and then, as I understand it, a few months or a

14 couple months later after this incident, you were again ordered by your

15 director to assist in a similar process. And again, you were not doing

16 this in your capacity as a member of the Bratunac Brigade, but this was

17 part of your working obligation with the civil protection. Correct?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. And on that particular occasion, again when you got to the site,

20 as I understand it, and I might be wrong, but on that particular occasion

21 you saw again Momir Nikolic. Correct?

22 A. I didn't see him in Glogova, but I saw him when I arrived at the

23 Bratunac Brigade HQ. This is what I said yesterday.

24 Q. Okay. All right. And if I recall your testimony also, again on

25 that particular occasion you did not recognise those members of the

Page 7360

1 military police or the soldiers. Correct?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Now, I forgot to ask: During the Kravica incident - and I don't

4 know whether it was in the Glogova as well - but you've indicated that

5 some of the soldiers were wearing black. Correct? They were dressed in

6 black?

7 A. Yes. They had black suits.

8 Q. Okay. And that --

9 JUDGE LIU: Yes --

10 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Overalls.

11 MR. WAESPI: I'm sorry to interject. I don't remember that he had

12 mentioned the colour black at all yesterday. So if you could direct us to

13 this.

14 MR. KARNAVAS: Yes. I will -- I stand corrected.

15 Q. When you gave your statement to the Prosecution only a month ago,

16 you stated that some of the soldiers were dressed in black. Is that

17 correct?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. And were some of them also wearing bandannas -- covering their

20 faces as well? Did they have masks?

21 A. I cannot remember, but I don't think that they had bandannas on.

22 Q. Okay. Now, when you were told to go to the utility company, is

23 there more than one utility company in Bratunac?

24 A. I think that there's just one.

25 Q. All right. And would that be the Rad, R-a-d, Rad Company where

Page 7361

1 the director is Dragan Mirkovic?

2 A. Yes, the Rad Company.

3 Q. And that's the same company where the other individual that you

4 assisted in replacing works at. Correct?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And in fact, without mentioning the gentleman's name, it was

7 Nikolic in fact that ordered you or asked you to replace the gentleman,

8 because he was too tired to continue on. And that's why you ended up

9 working some of the equipment. Correct?

10 A. Yes.

11 MR. KARNAVAS: If I can have one moment, Your Honour.

12 [Defence counsel confer]

13 MR. KARNAVAS: Your Honour, Mr. President, Your Honours, I have no

14 further questions.

15 JUDGE LIU: Thank you.

16 Mr. Stojanovic.

17 MR. STOJANOVIC: [Interpretation] We have no questions for this

18 witness, Your Honour.

19 JUDGE LIU: Thank you very much.

20 Any re-direct, Mr. Waespi?

21 MR. WAESPI: No, Mr. President.

22 JUDGE LIU: Well, at this stage are there any documents to tender

23 through this witness? Mr. Waespi?

24 MR. WAESPI: Yes, Mr. President. The two pictures, Prosecution

25 Exhibit 678, depicting Kravica; and P679, the aerial of Glogova.

Page 7362

1 JUDGE LIU: Thank you.

2 Any objections?

3 MR. KARNAVAS: No objections, Your Honour.

4 JUDGE LIU: Thank you.

5 Mr. Stojanovic, any objections?

6 MR. STOJANOVIC: [Interpretation] No objections, Your Honour.

7 JUDGE LIU: Thank you very much.

8 Well, these two documents are admitted into the evidence.

9 Witness, thank you very much for coming to The Hague to give your

10 testimony --

11 MR. KARNAVAS: I apologise --

12 JUDGE LIU: Yes, yes, Mr. Karnavas.

13 MR. KARNAVAS: I'm sorry, Mr. President --

14 JUDGE LIU: Do you have any documents to tender on your part?

15 MR. KARNAVAS: I'm told by our ever efficient registrar here that,

16 yes, I must and that would be D89/1. That would be just one page which is

17 number 00661835. It's the translation of that one page which is contained

18 in Prosecution's Exhibit P165, which I read and the gentleman then read

19 again. So -- and I apologise for interrupting you, Your Honour.

20 JUDGE LIU: Well, could I ask you a question?

21 MR. KARNAVAS: Certainly.

22 JUDGE LIU: Well, I think there is something about the footnotes,

23 because there is number, NO., surname, father's name. What is this? You

24 have to give me an explanation on that.

25 MR. KARNAVAS: Certainly, Your Honour. And I have to apologise,

Page 7363

1 because I didn't break it down. If you -- if we see the document, right

2 after that there are separate columns. And so each column is in Srpski.

3 And so I had it translated. So the first column is the number, then it

4 says: Surname, father's name, name. Then: Function, date of birth,

5 number of working days. And then the last column is the signature, which

6 as we read, was the signature of the gentleman's wife. So I apologise for

7 not putting it into little columns. I thought that just having this handy

8 today would be useful, and I apologise if I confused everybody as opposed

9 to making it clear.

10 JUDGE LIU: Any objections, Mr. Waespi?

11 MR. WAESPI: No, Mr. President.

12 JUDGE LIU: Thank you.

13 Frankly speaking, Mr. Karnavas, we don't think it's necessary to

14 admit this piece of document into the evidence. First, it's just a

15 translation. Secondly, everything in this piece of the paper has been

16 read out. It's properly registered in the transcript.

17 MR. KARNAVAS: Well, I'm not wedded -- I'm not really that

18 enthused in getting it in, but I was told that I should introduce it. I

19 accept the Court's ruling. I don't think we need to cloud up the record.

20 I was just trying to be helpful.

21 JUDGE LIU: Thank you very much.

22 Since there's no objections from the Prosecution, we believe that

23 this piece of document D89/1 is admitted into the evidence, although we

24 are very reluctant to do so because all the documents now are piling up at

25 this moment.

Page 7364

1 Well, Witness, thank you very much for coming to The Hague to give

2 your evidence. The usher will show you out of the room. We wish you a

3 pleasant journey back home.

4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.

5 [The witness withdrew]

6 JUDGE LIU: Well, at this stage we have an oral decision to make.

7 That is this Trial Chamber seized with Prosecution's motion to amend the

8 witness list, dated the 23rd of February, 2004. And yesterday during the

9 proceedings, we heard the submissions from both parties. This

10 Trial Chamber believes it would be in the interests of justice for the

11 Trial Chamber to grant the Prosecution permission to call that witness.

12 We also believe good cause exists to allow the addition of this witness.

13 At the same time, we believe that the Defence team of Mr. Blagojevic and

14 Mr. Jokic have not objected to the addition of this witness to the witness

15 list. So this motion is granted. It is so decided.

16 Is there any information about this witness?

17 MR. McCLOSKEY: Thank you, Mr. President. The most recent update

18 that I had was that all the various logistic issues, passport, were all in

19 order with the last one remaining, the Dutch government giving the witness

20 a visa. And they normally require five days in advance. But they have, I

21 know, made exceptions and they work very hard with this Tribunal. And I

22 believe they like having Tribunals in this city. So I hope that that will

23 come through. That is the only hang-up and we are waiting by the phone as

24 we speak to hear from the Dutch Ministry on that. Everyone else is ready,

25 and as far as I know there are no problems. The RS government has been

Page 7365

1 very helpful on that with Mr. Jovicic and the local police and everyone

2 else.

3 I look over to Ms. Stewart. We're waiting to hopefully get an

4 e-mail, but we haven't received that yet. If all works out, we can have

5 that witness on Thursday. And I believe we were planned to have another

6 witness on Friday, as you know.

7 JUDGE LIU: Thank you.

8 This Trial Chamber has already granted that motion, made some

9 necessary decisions in relation to this matter. And we also reserved a

10 courtroom on Thursday morning, 9.00, to hear this witness if he could make

11 it.

12 Well, there is another matter, it's about the 92 bis exhibits.

13 This is a matter in relation to the admission of exhibits pursuant to

14 Rule 92 bis. The Trial Chamber has previously admitted the testimony of

15 certain witnesses pursuant to Rule 92 bis and has yet to make a decision

16 regarding to the admission of exhibits related to these witnesses. The

17 witnesses in question are: W27, W34, W35, W38, W40, W44, W48, W50, W51,

18 W53, W59, W61, W63, W65, W68, W70, 72, 74, 78, 80, and W144.

19 The Trial Chamber would like to request the registrar to find out

20 what those exhibits are and to check the records in relation to previous

21 admitting into evidence, while assigning exhibit numbers in consultation

22 with the parties in order to avoid double admission of exhibits, to the

23 extent possible. We hope the Prosecution, after consultation with the

24 other parties and the registrar, could submit a list of the documents they

25 intend to tender through Rule 92 bis. It is a housekeeping matter.

Page 7366

1 Is there anything else that the parties would like to bring to the

2 attention of this Bench? It seems to me there is nothing else. So the

3 hearing is adjourned. We'll resume Thursday morning, 9.00, possibly in

4 this courtroom.

5 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned

6 at 3.12 p.m., to be reconvened on Thursday,

7 the 26th day of February, 2004,

8 at 9.00 a.m.