International Criminal Tribunal For the Former Yugoslavia

Case IT-95-14

  1. 1 Thursday, 25th September 1997

    2 (10.00 am)

    3 (Accused brought in)

    4 JUDGE JORDA: We can now resume, continuing the testimony of

    5 Witness D. Could I ask the Registrar to have the

    6 witness brought in with the necessary precautions,

    7 specifically in respect of the curtain. Does everybody

    8 hear me? General Blaskic, do you hear, does the Defence

    9 hear, the Prosecution, colleagues, assistants? That is

    10 good.

    11 (Witness entered court)

    12 JUDGE JORDA: Witness D, do you hear me?

    13 A. Yes, I do.

    14 JUDGE JORDA: Did you rest well? Are you all right?

    15 A. Yes, I am fine, thank you, well rested.

    16 JUDGE JORDA: Then please relax, you are before judges and

    17 you are in safety.

    18 Prosecution, you could now continue your

    19 questions, paying careful attention, as all of us

    20 should, the Defence, the judges, not to let any

    21 identifying elements slip in to what is said. I have a

    22 button here that I can use for corrections if necessary,

    23 but I would also ask my colleagues to take the same

    24 precautions as far as I am concerned. I give you the

    25 floor, Mr. Prosecutor.

  2. 1 Witness D (continued)

    2 Examined by MR. KEHOE (continued)

    3 Q. Thank you Mr. President, good morning your Honours.

    4 Witness D, good morning.

    5 A. Good morning.

    6 Q. We left off yesterday and you had just finished talking

    7 about the digging of trenches in Pirici and that you had

    8 been taken back to the cinema; do you recall that, sir?

    9 A. Yes.

    10 Q. Can you tell the court what happened after you got taken

    11 back to the cinema, after you finished digging the

    12 trenches in Pirici?

    13 A. They brought us to the cinema in Vitez and I went to the

    14 cinema hall and it was full. There was no room for us

    15 and then they told us that there was room in the

    16 basement where the heating facilities for the cinema

    17 were. I went downstairs and downstairs everything was

    18 full too, so we could not stay even down there and it

    19 was very bad down there, it was dusty, dirty, there was

    20 coal dust, there were some old chairs, people were

    21 sitting in them.

    22 Then we were told that we could go to the offices

    23 of the former League of Communists that were upstairs,

    24 that is to say, above the cinema offices. So we went

    25 upstairs. There were three or four offices there full

  3. 1 of people too, and in one of the offices a relative of

    2 mine was in one of these offices, and I stayed with him,

    3 so I stayed on with him.

    4 In this office, which was the last in the row of

    5 offices in the hall, there were about 30 people

    6 altogether. We used it for sleeping, for lying down in

    7 that office, and we could stand and talk in the hallway,

    8 and we would mostly lie down in the office, so I spent

    9 the night there. The next morning, military policemen

    10 of the HVO came in and they started calling out people

    11 who would be going with them. They called my name out

    12 too, out to dig trenches --

    13 Q. If I can stop you for one moment.

    14 JUDGE JORDA: Excuse me.

    15 MR. KEHOE: You were saying that the military police called

    16 your name out and other names. Continue from there,

    17 Witness D.

    18 A. They decided that I would go to dig and I went out in

    19 front of the cinema and the same van, the same closed

    20 van that brought me in from Pirici, they put 20 of us

    21 into the van and they took us to Rijeka, rather in the

    22 direction of Rijeka. We knew the terrain and we knew

    23 that the van had turned left towards the village of

    24 Krcevine. They brought us to the village of Krcevine,

    25 in the middle of the village, approximately.

  4. 1 We stopped in front of a house and we went out and

    2 we waited for about 10 or 15 minutes before an elderly

    3 man came by, a Croat by nationality. He was armed with

    4 a Slovak rifle, and then he took us uphill.

    5 We moved towards Ljubici, towards Preocica. They

    6 brought us to a house there, which was at the outskirts

    7 of the forest and they had some kind of command there.

    8 They left us up there. I and another prisoner were sent

    9 to the line there to dig. We came there and there were

    10 three dugouts there already that were made before, but

    11 they brought us into widen them, to make them bigger and

    12 to connect them with trenches, so that is where we were

    13 working that day, until dusk.

    14 When we finished then we were taken back to this

    15 command, which was about 150 metres or 100 metres from

    16 those dugouts. Then I and this man who was with me were

    17 sent to dig near the forest, to the left of this house

    18 where the others who were with us before were already

    19 digging dugouts. So we were digging in that forest.

    20 These colleagues of mine who had come with me had

    21 already started digging dugouts and they had dug about

    22 five of them and then this friend of mine and I were

    23 ordered to start digging a new dugout at the end, so we

    24 were digging according to the instructions given to us

    25 by HVO soldiers. We were digging all afternoon, and all

  5. 1 night.

    2 In the morning, we had not slept all night, in the

    3 morning, we were told that we should bring wooden boards

    4 made of beech wood, about six centimetres thick and four

    5 or five metres long. These were raw timber boards, they

    6 had just been cut, and there were 20 of us altogether.

    7 The boards were heavy and two of us would carry one

    8 board, so all day, we were carrying boards and covering

    9 these dugouts, and some time in the afternoon, around

    10 lunch-time, we brought these boards before this command,

    11 this house where they were and they told us to stop

    12 there and they gave us lunch.

    13 For the first time since I had been taken captive

    14 were we given a cooked meal, because before that we were

    15 only given canned fish and bread. We were given boiled

    16 beef and potatoes on that occasion. The food was good,

    17 tasty. When I finished eating, I took this board that

    18 I had been carrying with another older man who was about

    19 50 or 55 years old. I told him that he and I could work

    20 together and that I was stronger than he was and that

    21 I would help him, so that he would not strain himself,

    22 so he continued eating and I took this board to take it

    23 out to the dugout.

    24 So I had set out and when I made two or three

    25 steps, I was told to stop and two prisoners went by me,

  6. 1 one of them, Gadzun Almir, was carrying a board and the

    2 other one was called Zuljevic, I do not know his first

    3 name. They were about 17 or 18 years old, no more than

    4 that. When Almir went by me, when he was about five

    5 metres away from me, a shot rang out, I threw the board

    6 and I lay on the ground. When I looked up, Zuljevic was

    7 lying next to me. He also threw this board and when we

    8 looked ahead, Almir was lying on his back and we saw

    9 that he was hit. We crawled up to him, Zuljevic and I,

    10 and I approached him from his right-hand side and

    11 Zuljevic on his left-hand side. We took him by the

    12 shoulders and we dragged him to safety, we thought.

    13 As we were dragging him, there was blood all along

    14 the way, five or six centimetres. He was still alive,

    15 and the last thing I heard him say was "say hello to my

    16 mother". We turned him on to his stomach and we saw a

    17 big wound on his back and somebody from the HVO had

    18 given us bandages already, thrown bandages to us, and

    19 this entire big bandage covered the wound. We were

    20 given a stretcher only later, so we put him on the

    21 stretcher but already then he was showing no sign of

    22 life, and we carried him on this stretcher to this house

    23 in Krcevine where they had originally brought us.

    24 Then we put him into a passenger car, a Yugo, that

    25 is the name of the car. They opened the trunk door for

  7. 1 us and we put him into the car, the stretcher would fit

    2 into the entire car, and that is where he lay. Then we

    3 were taken back and we were told to continue working.

    4 We took these boards and we continued to cover these

    5 dugouts.

    6 Soon later, these soldiers told us that the young

    7 boy had died, before even reaching the clinic. Then it

    8 seemed to them that we were not carrying a lot of these

    9 boards, that this would take too long and then we were

    10 told that every one of us had to carry one board, so

    11 then we started carrying one board per person, but they

    12 were very heavy, so until dusk, we had completed

    13 covering these dugouts.

    14 Then this second evening, I was ordered to dig

    15 trenches in this same forest, and it was night-time and

    16 I could not even see who the Croatian soldiers were, but

    17 an acquaintance of mine, a friend of mine was there

    18 among them and he recognised me and he asked me whether

    19 he could do something to help me. I asked him whether

    20 he could let me sleep for at least an hour or two. He

    21 let me and this person who was with me sleep for about

    22 three hours, because his shift was until 12.00, so we

    23 managed to get some sleep, three hours of sleep, near

    24 their trenches.

    25 He woke us up at 12.00, then other soldiers came

  8. 1 and we were taken up above the cemetery, the chapel in

    2 Krcevine, because there were some dugouts up there too

    3 made from rails. We were taken up there in order to

    4 break these dugouts so that we could build a new dugout

    5 using these rails, and then I mounted an anti-aircraft

    6 gun there later. They gave it to me. I was mounting it

    7 there together with two other people.

    8 As we were carrying these rails that were very

    9 heavy, about 180 centimetres long and very heavy, two of

    10 us would carry one, but at one moment a soldier whom

    11 I did not know came up to me and told these two people

    12 that I should carry a rail on my own, so I carried about

    13 ten of them by myself. These two would load them on my

    14 shoulders and I would carry them on my own.

    15 When we finished this dugout for this

    16 anti-aircraft gun, we were ordered to mount it inside.

    17 After that, it was already dawn, and they let us, all of

    18 us, about 20 of us, get a bit of rest in the little

    19 forest. This was already the 19th, because that man had

    20 already been killed, so we were sitting and resting

    21 there for about an hour and then we were taken away

    22 again to finally complete the dugouts that we were

    23 making before that, because during the night, during the

    24 previous night, we could not finish them, so they took

    25 us there to finish them in daylight, the way they wanted

  9. 1 it to be.

    2 After that, after finishing this work, they took

    3 us back in the same van that they had brought us in.

    4 They took us back to the cinema in Vitez.

    5 Q. Before we talk about going back to the cinema in Vitez,

    6 let me ask you a few questions, Witness D, about the

    7 digging of trenches in Krcevine. You said that you were

    8 selected from the cinema by some military police who

    9 took us to Krcevine to dig the trenches; is that

    10 correct?

    11 A. Yes, that is correct.

    12 Q. When you got to Krcevine, there was a command centre, a

    13 HVO command centre, is that right?

    14 A. Yes, that house where their command was.

    15 Q. Were there HVO soldiers at this command centre?

    16 A. Yes.

    17 Q. Where were these HVO soldiers from?

    18 A. The soldiers that we found there at the line were from

    19 Novi Travnik, and their commander was from Novi Travnik

    20 too.

    21 Q. So these soldiers were from the Novi Travnik brigade and

    22 not the brigade in Vitez, is that right?

    23 A. Yes, they were from Novi Travnik.

    24 Q. Were these soldiers military policemen or regular HVO?

    25 A. Regular HVO, rank and file.

  10. 1 Q. When you got to dig trenches, you said that some

    2 trenches had already been dug, is that correct?

    3 A. Yes, they were dug. Just above their command there were

    4 dugouts that were covered, they were finished,

    5 90 per cent.

    6 Q. Did it seem to you that there was a plan for the digging

    7 of these trenches and these dugouts?

    8 A. Yes.

    9 Q. Was part of that plan, for instance, mounting this

    10 anti-aircraft weapon that you said that you and other

    11 Muslims mounted in the trench?

    12 A. Well yes, from that place where we had mounted it they

    13 could keep under control Ljubic to the left and Tolovici

    14 to the right. That is the position where it was. They

    15 could keep both these villages under control.

    16 Q. Witness D, when you were there digging trenches, was

    17 there any fighting going on between the HVO and the

    18 Armija?

    19 A. There was no fighting during those days.

    20 Q. Let us talk about the murder of Gadzun Almir, who was

    21 shot in your presence. Was that a shot that had come

    22 from far away or was that shot nearby?

    23 A. The shot was from nearby, we could judge that by the

    24 detonation.

    25 Q. You had become familiar with that terrain, had you not,

  11. 1 both during the time you were digging trenches and

    2 afterwards?

    3 A. Yes, just as I got out of Vitez and joined the ranks of

    4 the army again, I came to Krcevine, I was just above

    5 that place where Almir was hit, was shot.

    6 Q. Based on what you learned of that terrain, did that shot

    7 come from the Armija lines or from some place else?

    8 A. The shot that killed Almir certainly did not come from

    9 the Armija because he was facing the Armija line and he

    10 was shot in the back, and if you look at the

    11 configuration of the terrain, a bullet could not have

    12 come from down there and hit him in the back.

    13 Q. So based on that, what did you conclude? Who shot

    14 Gadzun Almir?

    15 A. In my opinion, one of the HVO soldiers. Most probably

    16 the one who shot him was behind this house, because if

    17 one looks at Almir's wound, he was hit by a bullet which

    18 made an enormous wound, a high velocity bullet.

    19 Q. Witness D, during your digging of trenches in Krcevine,

    20 did you learn about the digging of trenches in Kuber?

    21 A. While we were digging trenches there, the soldiers who

    22 were from Novi Travnik told us that HVO soldiers who

    23 were local people from there mistreated some of the

    24 people from the group who had been there before us, and

    25 that their commander punished two HVO soldiers by

  12. 1 sending them to Kuber, and they told us that Kuber was

    2 the worst line of all for them and that all who were

    3 sent to Kuber were sent there by way of punishment, so

    4 they told us that two of these soldiers were sent to

    5 Kuber as punishment.

    6 Q. So a way to discipline these HVO troops was for their

    7 commander to send them to Kuber, is that correct?

    8 A. Yes, and just before Almir was killed, we had found out

    9 that these two people returned to Krcevine, to the

    10 line there.

    11 Q. After you finished digging trenches in Krcevine, you

    12 were taken back to the cinema, is that right?

    13 A. Yes.

    14 Q. Tell the judges what happened when --

    15 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, Mr. Kehoe.

    16 MR. KEHOE: Witness D, tell the judges what happened when you

    17 got taken back to the cinema.

    18 A. We were taken back to the cinema, I went back to the

    19 same office, the same room where I had been staying with

    20 my relative and these other people, and I was not sent

    21 out to dig trenches any more. They came, once again

    22 they took away a group of people and they returned.

    23 Soon after that, the Red Cross came and we gave our data

    24 and we were recorded as prisoners and people from the

    25 Red Cross told us that we would not be taken out to dig

  13. 1 trenches any more because we had complained that we were

    2 being taken out to dig trenches, and they told us we

    3 would not be taken out again.

    4 Q. So the Red Cross knew that you and other Muslims had

    5 been taken out to dig trenches?

    6 A. Yes, because each and every one of us, when we made our

    7 statements, we said that we had been sent out to dig

    8 trenches, some of us once and other people twice and

    9 other people three times, so we all told them we had

    10 been sent out there.

    11 Q. After you had this conversation with the Red Cross where

    12 they told you that you did not have to dig trenches any

    13 more, what happened?

    14 A. Until then, we had been eating canned fish all the

    15 time. In the cinema, we would also get a can of fish

    16 and a piece of bread. After that, they allowed our

    17 wives, who had stayed back home -- when I am saying "our

    18 wives", I am saying the wives of all the captured

    19 Muslims -- all our wives were allowed to bring us food,

    20 so we were better fed and we all shared in the food. We

    21 all ate together. We did not pay any attention to whose

    22 food was which particular food.

    23 My wife had been staying with my aunt in Kolonija,

    24 that is what we call a particular part of town. On the

    25 eve of 1st May, in the evening, a HVO policeman came and

  14. 1 he called out my relative's name. My relative went out

    2 with him and he returned after ten minutes. He came

    3 back to us, and I asked him what happened and he told me

    4 that he had been allowed to go back home.

    5 Q. Excuse me a moment. (Pause). Continue, sir.

    6 A. As he got back, I asked him "what happened, what have

    7 you been doing", and he told me he was being released,

    8 he could go home. I said "how come", and he said his

    9 name was called out and he was asked whether he would

    10 like to go home and he said he would like to go home, so

    11 he was going home. I told him to tell this HVO soldier

    12 to call out my name too, if he could possibly. So after

    13 a while this same HVO soldier came and called out my

    14 name. I went downstairs and they took me to the former

    15 cafe which was there within the cinema and a HVO soldier

    16 was sitting there at the table and he told me that

    17 I could take a seat too, and as I sat down, he asked me

    18 where I wanted to go, whether I wanted to go to Travnik,

    19 Zenica, Stari Vitez or home. I said that I wanted to go

    20 home, and he gave me a piece of paper to sign. I signed

    21 it. I did not even read it or anything, but he told me

    22 I was free and I could go home.

    23 I went out of this cafe and my relative was

    24 standing in front of the cinema. I stood there with

    25 him. It was already 10.00 pm, it was dark, there were

  15. 1 no lights or anything and we were afraid to go home by

    2 ourselves. A policeman, a HVO policeman, came out and

    3 asked us what the problem was and we told him that we

    4 were afraid to go home by ourselves. He told us to take

    5 the middle of the road, towards our homes, and that

    6 there would be no problem and we started going along the

    7 middle of the road.

    8 My relative was following me, a few steps behind,

    9 and we went to the house of my aunt. My wife was there

    10 too, my two children, and my mother and my father, who

    11 was released before we were released, because he was an

    12 elderly man. I do not know exactly what the date was,

    13 but they released these elderly people on that date and

    14 they were allowed to go home and my father went home.

    15 So he was already home.

    16 I spent the night there at my aunt's house, and

    17 the next day, I, my wife, my children and my mother went

    18 to my home.

    19 MR. KEHOE: If I can stop you there for one moment.

    20 Mr. President, your Honours, we are going to begin to

    21 talk about some events involving Witness D's home which

    22 will cause him to be identified and we would ask that we

    23 could go into closed session at this point.

    24 JUDGE JORDA: The judges agree. The witness has already

    25 given some identifying elements and I would like to ask

  16. 1 the Registrar to check the transcript to be sure that

    2 those elements are redacted. Yes, we can order the

    3 private session now. Is that what you wanted, private

    4 session, Mr. Kehoe? Did you want the complete closed

    5 session, or is the private session sufficient?

    6 MR. KEHOE: Complete closed session, Mr. President, because we

    7 are going to be talking about some exhibits and he will

    8 have to stand up to talk about this exhibit, so I think

    9 we have to go into complete closed session.

    10 JUDGE JORDA: Does the Defence have any objection to that,

    11 to complete closed session?

    12 MR. HAYMAN: No objection, your Honour.

    13 JUDGE JORDA: All right. Then this will now be a completely

    14 closed session and we will take the necessary

    15 arrangements.

    16 (In closed session)

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    21 (In open session)

    22 MR. NOBILO: Witness D, we are in public session again, but

    23 with protective measures. I am interested in 16th April

    24 1993 at 6.00 in the morning. Did you hear a siren of

    25 general danger?

  2. 1 A. No.

    2 Q. On 16th or 17th or 18th, those days, was there any

    3 shelling in Vitez?

    4 A. I cannot remember.

    5 Q. You cannot remember. When your comrade in arms was

    6 wounded, I am talking about the big wound you mentioned,

    7 was there any fighting, was there a conflict before

    8 that, was he threatened by someone?

    9 A. No, he was not.

    10 Q. Did you see who could have shot him?

    11 A. No.

    12 Q. You said that at Krcevine, the commander was from

    13 Novi Travnik. Tell me, do you know what brigade they

    14 belonged to?

    15 A. I do not know exactly, but I know they were all from

    16 Novi Travnik.

    17 Q. You said that you were afraid to go home when you were

    18 released from the cinema?

    19 A. Yes.

    20 Q. Tell me, where did you feel safer, at home or in the

    21 cinema, when you look at it from present day distance?

    22 A. I felt safer in the cinema than when I got back home.

    23 Q. You said that your neighbours did not live in houses and

    24 you showed what these empty houses were, you marked them

    25 with a yellow pen. Did they live in Vitez, or where did

  3. 1 they live?

    2 A. At first, we did not know where they were and but later

    3 on you would find out that they lived in town with some

    4 of their friends, they were there.

    5 Q. That was the part that was under HVO control?

    6 A. Yes.

    7 Q. You went along the front-line and finally you crossed the

    8 front-line with your wife and children. In your opinion,

    9 was there a clear line of delineation between the

    10 BH army and the HVO?

    11 A. Yes.

    12 Q. So it was quite clear?

    13 A. Yes.

    14 Q. When the Red Cross came to the cinema in Vitez, were you

    15 asked whether you were a civilian or a soldier?

    16 A. Yes.

    17 Q. What did you say?

    18 A. I said I was a civilian.

    19 Q. A civilian? Why did you say that?

    20 A. Because I was a civilian, because I was not a soldier,

    21 because I was not captured in uniform or with a weapon.

    22 Q. During your captivity in Vitez in the cinema, in the

    23 veterinary station, your family, your wife, your

    24 children, your mother, where were they?

    25 A. At first, they were staying with our friend, our

  4. 1 neighbour, and after that, they went to stay with my

    2 aunt, they stayed at her apartment.

    3 Q. That was in Vitez?

    4 A. Yes.

    5 Q. Under HVO control?

    6 A. Yes, under HVO control.

    7 MR. NOBILO: Mr. President, I have only one more proposal,

    8 that the witness just indicates where he dug trenches.

    9 I am just asking whether he is protected enough when he

    10 draws these places where he dug trenches, if there is

    11 sufficient protection. I kindly request Witness D to

    12 mark this.

    13 JUDGE JORDA: Witness D, do not move. If anything has to be

    14 annotated on the map, we have to return to the closed

    15 session. This is your last question, Mr. Nobilo?

    16 MR. NOBILO: It is my last question. If we put the map in

    17 front of him so he can mark what he should mark on the

    18 map and then we all put it up on the easel so we can all

    19 see it.

    20 JUDGE JORDA: Yes, that would be the most efficient way of

    21 working.

    22 MR. KEHOE: If I may respond, Mr. President, it might just be

    23 easier to go into closed session because I have a

    24 question or two on redirect examination concerning

    25 questions asked by counsel in closed session, so I would

  5. 1 ask to be going back into closed session in any event.

    2 JUDGE JORDA: Then we will resume the closed hearing, which

    3 in fact might be even simpler. In fact this will make

    4 the witness feel much safer and will allow him to get

    5 up, allow the Prosecution to come closer to the easel

    6 and so that is in fact the best solution. We are trying

    7 to save time, but I think it is still the best

    8 solution.

    9 Witness D, feel at ease as soon as the curtains

    10 have been drawn. You are being asked to get up and to

    11 indicate on the map the positions that will respond to


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    3 (The witness withdrew)

    4 JUDGE JORDA: I am asking the Registrar to put the courtroom

    5 back into -- to make it open to the public again, and to

    6 remove all screens, and then we will resume immediately

    7 with the following witness.

    8 Mr. Harmon, are you going to resume? Will you be the one

    9 that is going to be following up now and bring in a new

    10 witness? You have given the identity to the Defence,

    11 there are no specific protective measures that you have

    12 been asking for?

    13 MR. HARMON: That is correct, Mr. President.

    14 (In open session)

    15 JUDGE JORDA: Everybody is ready? Mr. Harmon? You have

    16 about 30 minutes now. I remind you that we are not

    17 going to the meeting this afternoon for technical

    18 reasons.

    19 MR. HARMON: Thank you, Mr. President. I would call as my

    20 next witness Dr. Fuad Zeco.

    21 (Witness entered court)

    22 JUDGE JORDA: Mr. Zeco, do you hear me? Do you hear the

    23 presiding judge speaking to you? Do you hear me in your

    24 own language?

    25 THE WITNESS: Yes, I can hear you well.

  14. 1 JUDGE JORDA: Can you first tell us who you are? Just tell

    2 us your name.

    3 THE WITNESS: My name is Fuad Zeco and my --

    4 JUDGE JORDA: That is enough for the time being. It was

    5 just to be sure that we know who you are. The

    6 Prosecutor is going to ask additional questions about

    7 your identity. Now we know who you are, we are going to

    8 give you a written statement, that is the usher will,

    9 which we are going to ask you to read. Perhaps you

    10 could help him with his headset.

    11 THE WITNESS: Just a moment, please. Yes, my headset is a

    12 bit loose, so it is slipping.

    13 JUDGE JORDA: Yes. You have to be comfortable. Do you feel

    14 better that way? Go ahead.

    15 FUAD ZECO (sworn)

    16 JUDGE JORDA: Thank you. Please be seated.

    17 A. Thank you.

    18 JUDGE JORDA: Is the headset in place now? Take time to

    19 make it right, because you are going to need it for a

    20 while.

    21 A. Now it is fine.

    22 JUDGE JORDA: You were called in by the Prosecution -- is

    23 that all right? You were called in as a witness by the

    24 Prosecution.

    25 A. Yes.

  15. 1 JUDGE JORDA: As part of a trial which is being conducted by

    2 the Prosecution against General Blaskic, who is in this

    3 room. You are a Prosecution witness, you will first

    4 answer the Prosecutor's questions and then, as in all

    5 trials, you will answer the Defence's questions, and

    6 then any questions that the judges might want to ask

    7 you.

    8 Mr.. Harmon?

    9 Examined by MR.. HARMON

    10 Q. Dr. Zeco, could you please spell your last name for the

    11 record?

    12 A. Z-E-C-O.

    13 Q. Dr. Zeco, how old are you?

    14 A. 65.

    15 Q. What is your date of birth?

    16 A. 6th July 1932.

    17 Q. Where were you born and raised?

    18 A. I was born in Breza, I went to school in Sarajevo, part

    19 of it in Visoko as well, and I completed my studies in

    20 Sarajevo at the School for Veterinarians.

    21 Q. Dr. Zeco, are you married and do you have children?

    22 A. Yes, I am. I am married, I have two daughters and

    23 I have five grandchildren.

    24 Q. What is your profession, sir?

    25 A. I am a veterinarian, that is my profession.

  16. 1 Q. How long have you been a veterinarian?

    2 A. I graduated in 1959 and I was a veterinarian all the way

    3 until 16th April 1993, and I was just doing a job in my

    4 profession.

    5 Q. Dr. Zeco, when did you move to the Vitez municipality and

    6 could you explain the circumstances of how you came to

    7 move to that particular municipality?

    8 A. After I finished my studies, I had a scholarship from

    9 the Breza municipality and in 1959, I got a job at the

    10 veterinary station of the Breza municipality.

    11 I actually founded that station, I was the first

    12 veterinarian there, so I was the director of that

    13 station and I was there until 1st August 1969, when the

    14 request came from the Vitez municipality that I come

    15 there and that I do this work in the territory of that

    16 municipality, so I did that, starting as of 1st August

    17 1969.

    18 Q. Who asked you to come to the Vitez municipality to be a

    19 veterinarian?

    20 A. It was a request that came from the President of the

    21 municipality. At that time, Ivo Taraba was the

    22 President of the municipality, he invited me to an

    23 interview, we had an interview, he gave me an offer and

    24 I accepted the offer to take on this job, to become a

    25 veterinarian for the territory of the Vitez

  17. 1 municipality.

    2 Q. Was that individual a Muslim or a Croat?

    3 A. He is a Croat, he is Croatian, Mr.. Ivo Taraba.

    4 Q. Dr. Zeco, could you describe your duties and

    5 responsibilities as a veterinarian in the Vitez

    6 municipality?

    7 A. This was the work of the control of the fodder, the

    8 health of the livestock. This is the kind of job that

    9 was done in a veterinary station and I was appointed a

    10 director and this was my duty, to promote the livestock

    11 industry and health and the control of fodder. Those

    12 were the basic duties which I did in my job at that

    13 particular position.

    14 Q. Did your duties and responsibilities permit you to

    15 travel extensively through the Vitez municipality?

    16 A. My activity was related to the entire territory of the

    17 Vitez municipality. However, at that point we were also

    18 co-operating with Travnik, Vitez, Busovaca

    19 municipalities and as a veterinarian, if necessary,

    20 I would go and discharge my duties, carry out my duties

    21 in those territories as well, but I only had the

    22 responsibility really, in reality, for the municipality

    23 of Vitez.

    24 Q. Did you have a staff that worked with you while you were

    25 the director of the veterinary centre?

  18. 1 A. Yes, I did, I had veterinary technician. Occasionally

    2 I would have a colleague who was a veterinarian.

    3 However, as I pointed out just a while ago, we did

    4 co-operate, we helped out the other municipalities as

    5 well, so if -- if the need arose, we would help the

    6 other veterinarians in other municipalities, but it was

    7 all done through the veterinary centre of where I was

    8 the director, that was in Vitez.

    9 Q. Dr. Zeco, where was the centre, the veterinary centre,

    10 located? Was it located in Vitez?

    11 A. The veterinary station was in the town of Vitez itself,

    12 towards the outskirts, really. It was not in the centre

    13 of the town. This was an area called Rijeka.

    14 MR.. HARMON: Mr.. President, if I could have a previous

    15 exhibit, it is exhibit 33 and there are two photographs

    16 from that particular exhibit, 33/9 and 33/10, placed on

    17 the ELMO. (Handed).

    18 Dr. Zeco, can you see that image that has a small

    19 number on the lower right-hand corner, PH225, and can

    20 you identify what that particular building is?

    21 A. This is the veterinary station of the municipality of

    22 Vitez. I lived upstairs, and downstairs were the

    23 offices of the veterinary station.

    24 Q. All right. Could you also -- when you say you lived

    25 upstairs, did you live upstairs up to a certain

  19. 1 particular point in time and then move from those

    2 quarters to a different location?

    3 A. Yes, when I came to the municipality of Vitez I moved in

    4 there, upstairs, because those were the premises for the

    5 apartment of the veterinarian there, so I lived there

    6 for about ten years and then I built a house of my own

    7 and then I moved into this house of my own.

    8 Q. Now could we have the next image placed on the ELMO,

    9 that would be PH226.

    10 A. Yes.

    11 Q. Dr. Zeco, could you identify that building? Is that also

    12 another photograph, but from a different view, of the

    13 veterinary station?

    14 A. It is the same building, from the other side. You can

    15 see the entrance to the apartment there, and also the

    16 room for examining animals.

    17 Q. Dr. Zeco, you said that at some point in time after you

    18 moved into this particular apartment building you moved

    19 out and built a house of your own, is that correct?

    20 A. Yes, that is correct. I got a plot of land from the

    21 municipality in the immediate vicinity of the veterinary

    22 station where I built a family home, a house of my own,

    23 and after it was built, I moved from the apartment to my

    24 own home.

    25 Q. And that home is where you raised your family, is that

  20. 1 correct?

    2 A. Yes.

    3 Q. Now if I could have pre-marked exhibit 104 placed on the

    4 ELMO? (Handed). Dr. Zeco, can you identify the image

    5 that is on the ELMO in front of you, exhibit 104?

    6 A. This is my own home, which is less than 100 metres away

    7 from the veterinary station.

    8 Q. This is the home you built in 1969?

    9 A. I am sorry, in 1979.

    10 MR.. HARMON: Your Honour, I would ask that exhibit 104 be

    11 admitted into evidence.

    12 JUDGE JORDA: All right.

    13 MR.. HARMON: Now, your Honour, I am going to be referring to

    14 an exhibit which is a large aerial image that is behind

    15 Dr. Zeco. For the court's information, this image is

    16 similar to other aerial images. It was provided to the

    17 Prosecutor's Office pursuant to Rule 70 by the

    18 United Kingdom. It is essentially, your Honour, a

    19 slightly extended view of what has been previously

    20 introduced as exhibit 45. It shows a portion known as

    21 Rijeka and I will have the witness identify in just a

    22 minute that particular portion of the exhibit.

    23 Dr. Zeco, could you please turn to your left, and

    24 to your lift you will see a large aerial image. What

    25 I would ask you to do is please stand up and point out

  21. 1 with the pointer --

    2 JUDGE JORDA: Perhaps the usher could help the witness, to

    3 make sure that he can keep the headset on. He seems to

    4 be having a little problem with that.

    5 MR.. HARMON: Mr.. Dubuisson, is there another copy for the

    6 court? Is there one provided?

    7 For the record, your Honours, I have not provided

    8 a copy to Defence counsel because I did not have another

    9 available image, but I have let them see this and I have

    10 informed them they will be provided with a copy shortly.

    11 Referring to this particular exhibit, Dr. Zeco,

    12 could you please point out the location of the

    13 veterinary station where you worked as the director?

    14 A. The veterinary station is there.

    15 Q. You are holding your pointer on the end of an arrow that

    16 has a number 1 attached to it, is that correct?

    17 A. Yes, number 1, yes. The arrow with number 1 shows the

    18 building of the veterinary station.

    19 Q. Could you show on that particular exhibit the location

    20 of the home that you built?

    21 A. I can, over here (indicates), the arrow number 2 shows

    22 my home.

    23 Q. So you are referring to the number 2 and at the end of

    24 the arrow is indicated the location of your home?

    25 A. Yes.

  22. 1 Q. All right. Thank you very much, Dr. Zeco. You can have

    2 a seat again.

    3 A. Thank you.

    4 Q. Dr. Zeco, the area of your home you mentioned and the

    5 area of the veterinary station was located in a part of

    6 Vitez known as Rijeka, is that correct?

    7 A. Yes, precisely, Rijeka.

    8 Q. Was Rijeka a part of Vitez that was exclusively Muslim,

    9 exclusively Croat or was it a mixed neighbourhood?

    10 A. In the area of Rijeka, all three ethnic groups were

    11 present, Serbs and Croats and Muslims. In the area of

    12 Rijeka, there were predominantly Croats, a bit more than

    13 a half approximately, and the rest were Muslims and

    14 Serbs.

    15 Q. Can you approximate the number of Muslims, the

    16 percentage of Serbs, the percentage of Croats?

    17 A. Approximately a bit more than 30 per cent of the total

    18 population of Rijeka were Muslims, up to 10 per cent

    19 were Serbs and the rest were Croats, so about

    20 60 per cent were Croats in this area which is called

    21 Rijeka.

    22 MR. HARMON: Mr.. President, it is 1.00. Does the court want

    23 to continue beyond 1.00 or does the court wish to

    24 conclude the session at this point?

    25 JUDGE JORDA: It depends somewhat on you. We have to think

  23. 1 about the interpreters as well, because we are not

    2 meeting this afternoon, but it does depend on you. You

    3 are now asking questions which are establishing the

    4 general framework before you get to the more relevant

    5 questions, relevant in terms of what you want to

    6 demonstrate. Do you have a few more questions about the

    7 general framework, or is that it?

    8 MR. HARMON: That is it, your Honour. In terms of the

    9 neighbourhood and where Dr. Zeco lived, that concludes

    10 this part of the examination.

    11 JUDGE JORDA: Then we will stop. A question that has been

    12 said to me by Judge Riad: how much time are you planning

    13 to question this witness.

    14 MR. HARMON: I believe the estimation we provided the court

    15 was not to exceed two hours, your Honour.

    16 JUDGE JORDA: All right. Do you have a question,

    17 Mr. Dubuisson?

    18 THE REGISTRAR: I would like to know whether this exhibit

    19 which is on the easel is going to be filed today or are

    20 you waiting?

    21 JUDGE JORDA: Do you have anything else you want to say

    22 about it, or do you want to wait?

    23 MR. HARMON: Yes, your Honour, I do.

    24 JUDGE JORDA: For the time being, the witness has identified

    25 it but it is not going to be tendered as an exhibit. We

  24. 1 will meet tomorrow at 10.00. The court stands

    2 adjourned.

    3 (1.00 pm)

    4 (Court adjourned until 10.00 am the following day)