1 Friday, 11 September 1998
2 (Open session)
3 --- Upon commencing at 9.51 a.m.
4 JUDGE JORDA: Mr. Registrar, have Colonel
5 Blaskic brought in, please.
6 (The accused entered court)
7 JUDGE JORDA: Good morning to the
8 interpreters. I assume everybody can hear me. Good
9 morning to the Prosecution and to the Defence and to
10 the accused. I would like to say that this is going to
11 be a somewhat long morning, we'll take a 10-minute
12 break at 11.00 and then a 20-minute break; is that all
13 right with the interpreters? Wonderful, everybody is
14 happy with that. We can then immediately move to
15 giving the floor to Mr. Nobilo who will take his place
16 at the bar.
17 MR. NOBILO: Thank you, Mr. President. Our
18 next witness, the witness of the Defence, is Brigadier
19 Ivica Zeko.
20 JUDGE JORDA: You said Ivica?
21 MR. NOBILO: Zeko.
22 JUDGE JORDA: Thank you very much.
23 MR. NOBILO: Your Honours, in the course of
24 these proceedings for more than one year we have
25 received very little or no information about the
1 development, strength and deployment of the army of
2 Bosnia-Herzegovina in the area of relevance for the
3 indictment and in the time that is referred to in the
5 For that purpose, and in order to define the
6 development, command structure, areas of responsibility
7 and the way in which those zones moved, or rather the
8 movement of the BH units, as they progressed, advanced
9 or withdrew, we asked Brigadier Ivica Zeko, who was in
10 1992, 1993 assistant commander of the operative zone of
11 central Bosnia for intelligence. Therefore, he was the
12 assistant of the accused for intelligence and a member
13 of the staff of the operative zone of central Bosnia.
14 Brigadier Zeko is today a brigadier in the
15 Army of the Federation of Bosnia-Herzegovina, that is
16 the joint army which developed from the BH army and the
17 HVO. So, he is in the Croatian component of the
18 Federation Army. I hope that this will be sufficient
19 by way of an introduction, and could we please have the
20 witness brought in?
21 JUDGE JORDA: All right, Registrar, have
22 Brigadier Ivica Zeko brought in, please.
23 (The witness entered court)
24 JUDGE JORDA: Do you hear me?
25 THE WITNESS: Yes, Mr. President.
1 JUDGE JORDA: Please remain standing for a
2 few moments. First tell us your name, your given name,
3 current profession and place of residence, if possible,
4 and then you will read your solemn declaration.
5 WITNESS: IVICA ZEKO
6 THE WITNESS: Mr. President, Your Honours, my
7 name is Ivica Zeko.
8 JUDGE JORDA: You are a bit far from the
9 microphone. Would you please approach the microphone
10 and speak a little louder so the interpreters can hear
11 you. Please remain standing, however, but get closer
12 to the microphone. I know it's a little complicated.
13 Speak louder, thank you.
14 THE WITNESS: I'm Ivica Zeko. I was born on
15 the 12th of June, 1961 in the village of Sebisic, the
16 Municipality of Novi Travnik. I am now serving in the
17 Army of the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina.
18 JUDGE JORDA: Thank you. Please remain
19 standing for a few moments to read the solemn
20 declaration that the usher is handing to you.
21 THE WITNESS: I solemnly declare that I will
22 speak the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the
24 JUDGE JORDA: You may be seated. Thank you
25 for having come to the Tribunal. Please be seated.
1 You have come at the request of the Defence counsel for
2 the accused who is present in this courtroom, General
3 Blaskic. You are going to answer, the major questions
4 will be asked by Mr. Nobilo, and then you will answer
5 the questions asked by the Office of the Prosecutor and
6 the questions of the Judges.
7 Mr. Nobilo, the floor is yours.
8 MR. NOBILO: Thank you, Mr. President.
9 Examined by Mr. Nobilo:
10 Q. Brigadier, good morning, and on behalf of the
11 Defence I thank you for accepting the call. You told
12 the Court where you were born and where you are living,
13 but could you tell us about yourself, your educational
14 background and what you were doing before the war in
15 the area of the former Yugoslavia?
16 A. Mr. President, Your Honours, I graduated from
17 the secondary military school in Sarajevo. I then went
18 on to the military academy of the ground forces in
19 Belgrade, after which my first position was in the
20 Republic of Slovenia, in the Postajna Garrison where I
21 held the duty of commander of a reconnaissance company
22 until the beginning of the war in Slovenia.
23 Q. What was your rank in the JNA before you
24 abandoned it?
25 A. I had the rank of captain.
1 Q. Why did you leave, and when?
2 A. As the fighting started and as the JNA took
3 up a position against the people in the month of July
4 1991 I left Slovenia and went to Germany.
5 Q. So, you left the JNA because you saw that
6 that was not the place for you, you went to Germany and
7 you could have stayed in Germany. Why did you decide
8 to go back to the former Yugoslavia, or more
9 particularly to Bosnia, and when?
10 A. Mr. President, Your Honours, having been
11 called by the defence department of Novi Travnik in the
12 month of February 1992 I reported to the office where I
13 was assigned to join up with the work of the
14 Territorial Defence in Novi Travnik.
15 Q. Thank you, I know I did tell to you speak
16 slowly, but you can speed up a little bit. We must not
17 overdo it.
18 What happened next? When did you start
19 working in the headquarters of the operative zone for
20 central Bosnia, and what were your particular tasks
22 A. Mr. President, Your Honours, until the month
23 of March 1991 my duties were linked to the municipal
24 staff of the Territorial Defence.
25 JUDGE JORDA: You probably made a mistake,
1 you weren't referring to '91.
2 MR. NOBILO:
3 Q. Yes, that was just the point I wanted to
4 make, you must have made a slip.
5 A. Yes, yes, it was in 1992.
6 I then moved to the municipal headquarters of
7 the HVO in Novi Travnik, and I stayed there until July
8 1992. After.
9 Q. And then where did you go to?
10 A. When the operative zone for central Bosnia
11 was formed I transferred to Vitez to the command of the
12 operative zone of central Bosnia.
13 Q. When you went to the operative zone, the
14 command of the operative zone, was it then in Vitez or
15 in Kruscica?
16 A. Mr. President, the command was in Kruscica,
17 but as this is all part of the Vitez municipality, that
18 is why I said Vitez.
19 Q. What position were you assigned to in the
20 operative zone?
21 A. At the time assistant Chief of Staff of the
22 Headquarters for Intelligence Affairs.
23 Q. Could you describe that position very
24 briefly, as we're not military experts? What did you
25 actually do within your duties in the operative zone of
1 central Bosnia?
2 A. In the operative zone of central Bosnia my
3 duties were to organise the department for
4 intelligence, which would later on collect information
5 about the enemy.
6 Q. But your department was after a short time
7 moved from Kruscica to Hotel Vitez, and from there to
8 another place where you set up your offices for
10 A. Yes. When the command was moved to the hotel
11 in Vitez my department was set up, and following the
12 orders of the commander it was established in the place
13 called Nova Bila.
14 Q. And that is where it remained until the end
15 of the war; isn't it?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Brigadier, will you tell the Court by way of
18 introduction what methods did you use to collect data,
19 which you will shortly begin to present to us? I'm
20 talking about the period of '92, '93; what methods did
21 you apply to obtain the information you needed?
22 A. Mr. President, Your Honours, in my work I
23 used methods such as teamwork, reconnaissance,
25 Q. Just a moment please, let us clarify these
1 terms. What is the difference between reconnaissance
2 and observation?
3 A. The difference is that reconnaissance is done
4 by entering into enemy territory, and observation is
5 done from the front line.
6 Q. Please continue. What other methods were
7 used to gain information about the enemy?
8 A. I have mentioned observation, then electronic
9 devices were used.
10 Q. Will you tell us exactly what that means?
11 A. It means collecting data about the enemy
12 using enemy lines, intercepting enemy lines, or simply
13 tapping enemy communications.
14 Q. Were there any other methods of collecting
16 A. Yes, we used the media, radio, television,
17 printed media, minutes from meetings held with
18 representatives of international organisations.
19 Q. Did you use refugees, displaced persons,
20 citizens who may come from enemy territory to your own
21 territory as a source of information?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And I will put to you a rather delicate
24 question now, but tell me in very general terms,
25 because I believe neither the Court nor the Prosecution
1 will ask you for names; did you have a network of
2 agents in the enemy territory?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Brigadier, let us now go on to the substance
5 of your testimony. Will you please, using the ELMO and
6 the monitors and the screen, and using the laser
7 pointer, if necessary, you may freely get up and move
8 over to the model in relief, present to us your
9 memories, or as best you remember, the development of
10 the army of Bosnia-Herzegovina in '92, '93 in the
11 municipalities of Travnik, Novi Travnik, Vitez,
12 Busovaca and Kiseljak. May the lights be dimmed so we
13 can have better visibility of the screen?
14 Just a moment, please. Can you see the
15 picture on your monitor?
16 A. Yes. Mr. President, Your Honours, on this
17 slide we have a map of Bosnia-Herzegovina with the
18 areas in pink being the territories under the control
19 of the army of the Bosnian Serbs. The green areas are
20 the territories under the control of the army of
21 Bosnia-Herzegovina. And in yellow the territory under
22 the control of the HVO, the Croatian Defence Council.
23 In this red rectangle is the area consisting
24 of two enclaves, the Lasva and the Lepenica valleys,
25 which we shall be discussing. And this is the area
1 also depicted on the model.
2 Q. You need to press twice.
3 A. This map in mauve, again we have the
4 territories under the control of the Bosnian Serbs.
5 Green is the territory under the control of the BH
6 army, and yellow within this small red square, the area
7 in yellow is the territory of the Lasva River valley,
9 Q. Which municipalities are those?
10 A. Travnik, Vitez and Busovaca.
11 Q. Brigadier, what does this map depict? What
12 is the period of time and which are the symbols used?
13 A. This map, Your Honours, covers the period
14 from the 24th of April to the 24th of May 1992, and the
15 map marks in red the units of the army of the Republika
16 Srpska. The green are the units of the army of
17 Bosnia-Herzegovina, and the units of the Croatian
18 Defence Council are depicted in blue.
19 Q. In those days did the name of the army of
20 Bosnia-Herzegovina exist, or were some other terms
21 still used, like the Territorial Defence, and so on?
22 A. In this period the name used was Territorial
24 JUDGE JORDA: Just a moment, please. You say
25 that the square represents what portion of the
1 territory? I'm not able to read it here?
2 A. Mr. President, this rectangle shows the
3 territory consisting of Novi Travnik, Travnik, Vitez
4 and Busovaca.
5 JUDGE JORDA: Yes, thank you.
6 MR. NOBILO: Mr. President, for your own
7 orientation, on the left-hand side where the Serbs are,
8 marked in red is Travnik, closer is Travnik, in the
9 middle is Vitez and Busovaca and so on. Can I show you
10 on the model?
11 JUDGE JORDA: That's not necessary, because I
12 didn't understand what the square meant.
13 MR. NOBILO: This rectangle is the same as
14 the first rectangle on the relief.
15 A. The first step towards the formation of the
16 future army of Bosnia-Herzegovina can be considered to
17 have been taken at he beginning of 1991. Actually, the
18 Territorial Defence was still functioning on the basis
19 of laws and regulations taken over from the former
20 Yugoslavia, which was still in force.
21 The police forces or the force of the MUP,
22 the Ministry of the Interior; units of the patriotic
23 league; units of the Green Berets; and the forces of
24 MOS, Muslim Armed Forces.
25 On the 9th of April, 1992, the presidency at
1 the time decided to jointly conduct and command and
2 form the Territorial Defence of Bosnia-Herzegovina,
3 consisted of district staffs. The district TO staff
4 Zenica --
5 JUDGE RIAD: I think you can speak a bit more
6 quickly. We can follow you. When it's very slow it's
7 difficult to follow.
8 A. Thank you, Your Honours. The District Staff
9 of the Zenica Territorial Defence consisting --
10 JUDGE JORDA: Yes, I see, what was just said
11 about Judge Riad on the transcript, I agree with it,
12 since it was Judge Riad said it I will say it again so
13 it is in the transcript.
14 JUDGE RIAD: This is, of course, not to say
15 we're going to go against the instructions of the
16 Presiding Judge that you ask not to go too slow. It's
17 like the artillery, you can go too far, too slowly, you
18 have to find the middle ground. There you go, thank
19 you very much.
20 JUDGE JORDA: Thank you, Judge Riad.
21 INTERPRETER: The interpreter suggests that
22 the witness take his head phones off.
23 A. Mr. President, Your Honours, the District
24 Staff of TO Zenica consists of the following
25 municipalities: Gorni Vakuf, Bugojno, Donj Vakuf,
1 Travnik, Novi Travnik, Vitez, Busovaca, Kakanj and
3 The Municipal Staff of the TO of Travnik
4 consisted of detachments. The territorial detachment
5 of Gradina with the command post in the village of
6 Bijelo Bucje. The territorial detachment of Turbe with
7 its command post in Turbe; the territorial detachment
8 Karaule with its command post in Karaule; the first and
9 second Travnik detachment with its command posts in
10 Travnik; the territorial detachment Han Bila with the
11 command post in Han Bila; the territorial detachment
12 Ljuta Greda with the command post in the village of
13 Kapelici; the territorial detachment Mehurici with its
14 command post in the village of Mehurici.
15 All these detachments were varied in strength
16 between 400 and 500 members, with the exception of the
17 first and second Travnik detachments which numbered
18 about 1.500 members.
19 MR. NOBILO: Mr. President, our client is
20 taking an active part in the proceedings and he is
21 telling me that almost all the places mentioned by the
22 witness have been left out. And the positions of the
23 territorial defence detachments in space are very
24 important for a subsequent understanding of events.
25 What should we do now? Should we proceed and then deal
1 with the transcript later on?
2 JUDGE JORDA: Yesterday we had transcript
3 problems. I would like to thank the accused; of
4 course, it's his right to point this out.
5 What's going on here, Mr. Registrar?
6 THE REGISTRAR: When we're talking about
7 proper names, there is immediately going to be a
8 correction once the hearing is over and then the
9 transcript is made available to both the parties and to
10 you and ordinarily the transcript will have all of the
11 towns and cities that were noted.
12 JUDGE JORDA: Yes, I think in general the
13 transcribers who have to work very, very quickly, when
14 they're not sure of a name, I think that's what it is,
15 is when they're not sure of a name.
16 THE REGISTRAR: Yes, that's correct.
17 JUDGE JORDA: I think they may just even type
18 in any letter or leave a blank. But they know that
19 right away they've got to correct it. I want to take
20 advantage in order to thank those individuals who are
21 transcribing our work. We often see them leaving the
22 Tribunal two or three hours after the hearings are
23 complete because everything is looked at again. The
24 accused can be assured that the names will be properly
25 put in, and, in addition, the Defence will receive
1 copies of the final transcript should any other
2 corrections be necessary. You may go on now.
3 MR. NOBILO:
4 Q. Please continue, Brigadier.
5 A. Your Honours, in addition to these
6 detachments, under the command of the Municipal Staff
7 in Travnik, there were also the following units: The
8 units of the Patriotic League of the Green Berets, of
9 the Muslim armed forces, members of the MUP or the
10 Ministry of the Interior. Towards the end of May,
11 1992, in the Territory of Travnik, two brigades arrived
12 from the Republic of Croatia. The 1st Krajina Brigade
13 formed in Zagreb, armed and equipped with its commander
14 Osman Osmanovic and the 7th Krajina Brigade formed in
15 Rijeka, under the command of Fikret Cuskic.
16 Q. Brigadier, these brigades that you mentioned
17 were formed, equipped and organised in the Republic of
18 Croatia in the towns of Rijeka and Zagreb and that they
19 came to the Territory of Travnik. Who were the members
20 of those brigades, in ethnic terms?
21 A. In ethnic terms, the members were Muslims.
22 Q. The staff of this command was in Travnik, in
23 the barracks there.
24 A. The municipal command of Territorial Defence
25 of Novi Travnik was formed with three detachments. The
1 first detachment with the command post in Travnik; the
2 second detachment had its command post in the Village
3 of Petcui (Phoen). And the third command post had its
4 command post in the village of Opara.
5 In addition to these detachments -- the third
6 detachment, I'm sorry -- in addition to these
7 detachments, let me just state that these detachments
8 had been 450 to 500 men. In addition to these
9 detachments, under the command of the Municipal Staff
10 of Novi Travnik there were other units of the Patriotic
11 League, the Green Berets, the Muslim Armed Forces and
12 members of MUP, the Internal Affairs Ministry.
13 Q. Brigadier, let us take a pause here. First
14 of all, I am interested in your assessments. Do you
15 have any records that you made in Travnik? At the time
16 in Travnik, how many Territorial Defence forces were
17 there on the other units which you mentioned under the
18 command of the staff of the Territorial Defence of the
19 town, how many soldiers at that time were there? If
20 you can give an assessment.
21 A. Well, I said a moment ago, I told you of the
22 strength of each detachment, how many men each
23 detachment had. And the other units that existed in
24 the locality, the 1st and the 7th Klein of brigades,
25 which, later on, were to join forces to become the 70th
1 Brigade and they had 3.300 soldiers at that time. I
2 did not add up all the forces, so I don't have the end
4 Q. Thank you. The second question, which I
5 would like to ask you is the following: You mentioned
6 the Krajina Brigades, which we'll see played an
7 important role later on; particularly, the 1st and the
8 7th. You said they were formed in Zagreb. In Zagreb
9 and Preocica, were they formed on the basis of a
10 private initiative or did the Croatian government
11 authorise this and equip these units?
12 A. Mr. President, Your Honours, I don't know how
13 they were established.
14 Q. Thank you. And one more piece of
15 information, which I think is important to state at the
16 beginning as far as the Army of Bosnia-Herzegovina is
17 concerned, before the conflict with the Army of
18 Bosnia-Herzegovina in April of 1993, did you come by
19 this data through your intelligence work or in some
20 other way, would you explain this to the Court please;
21 so the data on the armies of Bosnia-Herzegovina, before
22 the conflict, did they have a status of an enemy and
23 did you do any intelligence work towards them?
24 A. Mr. President, Your Honours, before the
25 conflict I said in my presentation that I worked in the
1 Territorial Defence department, and, after that, we
2 worked together.
3 Q. Who is we? When you say "we" who do you
5 A. The HVO and the Territorial Defence of the
7 Q. What you want to say, and please put me right
8 if I am wrong, is that as you were allies and had joint
9 operations and cooperated, you knew their data and
10 information and they knew yours; is that correct?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Thank you. Now I interrupted you, you were
13 in Novi Travnik, so you can continue.
14 A. In addition to the detachment, I said there
15 were units of the Patriotic League, the Green Berets
16 and the Muslim Armed Forces and units of MUP, the
17 Internal Affairs Ministry. The Municipal Staff of the
18 Territorial Defence of Vitez was composed of two
19 detachments of Territorial Defence and one manoeuvre
21 The first detachment incorporated the
22 villages of Kruscica, Prasca, Gacice, with the command
23 post in Kruscica. The second detachment encompassed
24 Poculice, Vranjska, Bukve, Sivrino Silo, Ahmici and
25 Pirici. The command post of this detachment was
1 located in Poculice. The manoeuvre battalion with the
2 command post in Vitez, that was where that was.
3 Q. Can you tell us, Brigadier, how strong the
4 forces in Vitez were? What about the second detachment
5 and the manoeuvre battalion?
6 A. The first detachment had 650 men, that is to
7 say about 650; the second had approximately 700 and the
8 manoeuvre battalion had 300 members and the commander
9 was Ahmed Kulenovic a former officer of the JNA.
10 Q. When you say the "manoeuvre detachment," what
11 does that mean? What is the difference between the
12 territorial units and the manoeuvre detachment or
13 mobile detachment?
14 A. This unit was mobile and could be effective
15 on the whole region, not only territorially, so it can
16 be used elsewhere as well. It was a mobile detachment.
17 Q. When you say "mobile," it means that they
18 were not to defend a given territory, but to be mobile
19 and to go to other localities where needed. You
20 mentioned the villages, does that mean that the units
21 were located in the villages, in each of the villages
22 you mentioned?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Thank you, please continue.
25 A. The Municipal Staff of the TO of Busovaca,
1 was formed with two detachments: The first detachment
2 had its command post in the Village of Busovaca; the
3 second detachment had its command post in the Village
4 of Kacuni. And there was one independent unit, which
5 was the size of a company and it incorporated the
6 villages of Buselji, Donja Rovna and Kovacevic.
7 Q. Brigadier, you said that the first detachment
8 had its command post in the city of Bosnia, not in
9 Merdani? That was a slip?
10 A. Yes, Merdani, I'm sorry, the command post was
11 in the village of Merdani and the second detachment had
12 its command post in the Village of Kacuni. The
13 Municipal Staff of the TO was in Busovaca.
14 In addition to these attachments, under the
15 Territorial Defence staff of Busovaca there were other
16 units as well of the Patriotic League and the Muslim
17 armed forces, as well as the units of MUP, the Internal
18 Affairs Ministry. In this municipality there were no
19 units of the Green Berets.
20 Q. When you mention the different units, is it
21 true that all the units were under the command of the
22 Municipal Staff of the Territorial Defence?
23 A. Yes, that's true.
24 Q. Thank you, please continue.
25 A. As a conclusion from what I have presented,
1 we can note that the zone of responsibility of the
2 Municipal Staff of the TO of Zenica and the zone of
3 responsibility, the district of responsibility, were
4 superimposed on this territory -- overlapped on this
6 On this slide --
7 Mr. President, once again in the transcript
8 the sense, the witness said that the two territories,
9 the zone of responsibility of the District Staff of
10 Territorial Defence of Zenica overlapped with the zone
11 of responsibility of the operative zone of the HVO for
12 Central Bosnia, they overlapped, and can we ask the
13 witness whether that is exact.
14 A. Yes, it is.
15 Q. So the same territory was the zone of
16 responsibility of two armies, that's what you wanted to
17 say. Thank you, please continue.
18 A. Mr. President, Your Honours, on this map, you
19 can see the distribution and activities of the
20 Territorial Defence of Bosnia-Herzegovina from the 15th
21 of October to the 25th of October, 1992. The
22 distribution of the units remains the same, but they
23 are strengthened in this period of time because there
24 was a daily influx of refugees from the
25 Bosanska-Krajina region, that is to say under the
1 control of the Republic of Srpska army.
2 Q. These refugees, what ethnicity were they?
3 A. They were of the Muslim ethnicity.
4 Q. Thank you, please continue.
5 A. The second thing that characterises the
6 particular was that the first foreigners arrived and
7 they became included into the Muslim armed forces,
8 particularly in the area of the Municipality of
10 Q. Can you specify some of the localities which
11 became the basis of these foreign citizens?
12 A. The start was in Travnik, first of all
13 Travnik, the Medresa facility and in the old town.
14 JUDGE RIAD: Excuse me, where do these
15 foreigners come from? Were they also Muslims? Were
16 they foreigners? Were they refugees from other
17 countries? On the Serb side, for example.
18 A. For the most part they were from the Arab
19 countries, Iran and Afghanistan.
20 MR. NOBILO:
21 Q. Let us clarify this matter. Please tell us
22 how you call them or they call themselves, these
23 fighters who came from the Arab states from Iran and
25 A. We're going to say something about that later
1 on, but for the most part they called themselves the
3 Q. Did they have some separate characteristics
4 as to uniform, beards and so on? Is it the same thing
5 that we see in (inaudible) in Afghanistan?
6 A. That is what they looked like visually, they
7 had beards; they had the caps on their heads.
8 Q. Please continue, yes, thank you.
9 A. This period was also characterised by the
10 territory between the local Muslims and the Muslims who
11 had arrived from the areas of the Krajina,
12 Bosanska-Krajina region. And the situation became
13 complicated in this area.
14 Q. Brigadier, you can use your notes quite
15 freely, and place them in front of you. That is
16 standard procedure in the Tribunal.
17 A. At this time, we had -- two incidents broke
18 out. The first incident occurred on the 18th of
19 October, 1992, in Novi Travnik. The first armed
20 conflict to take over the Petrol pump.
21 Q. Between whom did the armed -- the incident
22 break out?
23 A. The incident was between the units of the
24 Territorial Defence and the HVO.
25 Q. Please continue.
1 A. The second incident occurred on the 20th of
2 October on the road between Busovaca and Vitez. The TO
3 Army of Bosnia-Herzegovina placed a watch-point and
4 failed to allow the HVO people to move towards Jajce.
5 Two days afterwards, this checkpoint was disbanded and
6 the shift for Jajce could pass through.
7 Q. Brigadier, there were different
8 interpretations in the course of these proceedings as
9 to whether the HVO army, which was stopped in Ahmici in
10 October 1992, whether they were to go towards Jajce in
11 the front towards the Serbs or whether it was to go to
12 the assistance of the HVO groups in Novi Travnik. That
13 is a debatable point. You say that it was on its way
14 to Jajce, how do you know that it was on its way to
16 A. Well, I know this because I saw that it
17 passed and left for Jajce.
18 Q. So after the conflict it, in fact, went to
20 A. Yes, it did.
21 Q. Thank you. Please continue.
22 A. On this slide, you can see the period from
23 the second of November 1992 to the 5th of January,
24 1993. In this time period, the forces of the Army of
25 Republic of Srpska in the 1st Krajina Corps, to be more
1 exact, at the end of October, began their offensive on
2 Jajce. So that in this period of time, there was a
3 great wave of refugees from Bosanska-Krajina. And I
4 show here the areas from which the refugees came for
5 the most part, Kotor Varos, Sanski Most, Banja Luka,
6 Prijedor, Jajce.
7 Q. Brigadier, I apologise for interrupting you
8 again, but let us go back a moment. When you speak
9 about refugees, I know it is not essential, but as we
10 are dealing with an international armed conflict and a
11 civil war, for the purposes of the proceedings, may we
12 know the ethnicities of the majority of these 200.000
14 A. For the most part these refugees were of the
15 Muslim nationality, Muslim ethnicity, although with the
16 downfall of Jajce, there were some Croats as well.
17 Q. Tell me, please, what is the difference
18 between refugees, Muslims and Croat refugees? Where do
19 one go and what direction did the others go?
20 A. Well, after the downfall of Jajce itself,
21 we'll be able to see this more clearly. On the 2nd of
22 November, 1992, when the refugees of Muslim ethnicity,
23 mostly, a portion stayed in Travnik, Novi Travnik and
24 Vitez area and another portion went to Busovaca and the
25 surrounding villages of Zenica, around Zenica, Bila.
1 The Croat refugees and the army together with them,
2 went towards Herzegovina, in the direction of
4 Q. Tell me, please, this wave of refugees, we
5 saw that the Croatian refugees with the soldiers did
6 not remain in the locality, but went towards the south,
7 to Herzegovina, so this wave of Muslim refugees, and I
8 suppose the able-bodied men and soldiers, did they make
9 up larger units of Territorial Defence and can you tell
10 us what the situation numerically was like according to
11 the different municipalities? The numeric status of
12 the units in Travnik, Novi Travnik and that area,
13 Vitez, Busovaca and so on.
14 A. This period was characterised by more and
15 more refugees coming in, which meant that the number of
16 military able-bodied men increased. And that was what
17 guided the presidency of the day in Bosnia-Herzegovina
18 to make a decision on the formation of the army of
19 Bosnia-Herzegovina. And to have it made up of five
21 Q. Before we start talking about the corps,
22 could we, if you have the facts and figures -- I know
23 it's difficult to remember everything -- at the end of
24 the day how the individual brigades, how many soldiers
25 did they have? Could you give us an overall view of
1 the numerical state of the units?
2 A. The brigades were still not formed. They
3 were still territorial detachments. But the number of
4 every territorial detachment, as well as units, the
5 units that existed under the municipal staff increased
6 in number from one day to the next. So it was
7 impossible to know the exact number and have statistics
8 on this. One detachment, which might have had 5 to 600
9 men now have 800 or 900 men if you look at one unit.
10 But if you take them all together, I haven't got the
11 exact total amount.
12 Q. But we can say there was a significant
13 increase in the number of soldiers and sometimes the
14 numbers were even doubled. Thank you. Please
16 A. In this period, as I said earlier on, the
17 presidency of the day on the 3rd of September, 1992,
18 took the decision to set up an Army of
19 Bosnia-Herzegovina, which was composed of five corps.
20 The 3rd Corps of the Army of Bosnia-Herzegovina was set
21 up on the 1st of December, 1992, in Zenica.
22 Q. This corps, did it cover the same zone of
23 responsibility as the District Staff of Zenica, like
24 the Operative Zone of the HVO?
25 A. Yes.
1 Q. Thank you. The?
2 A. The 3rd Corps with a command post in Zenica
3 had its organisational structure as follows, the
4 command of the corps, the staff, with the other units
5 of the military police, the links, communications
6 division, the engineering battalion, the company,
7 ABHO. The brigades were composed of the following
8 mountain brigades, a mechanised brigade. A detachment,
9 special MUP units, which were called the manoeuvre
10 units, and auxiliary units such as the logistics
11 brigade, the artillery division the anti-aircraft
12 division, the armoured division.
13 Under the command of the Corps and within the
14 composition of the 3rd Corps was the 7th Muslim
15 Motorised Brigade the El Mudzhid Unit and here I have
16 not indicated the Abdul Atif Unit.
17 Q. Brigadier, would you please explain to the
18 Court what the characteristics are of the 7th Muslim
19 Motorised Brigade, the El Mudzahid Unit and the Abdul
20 Atif Unit?
21 A. Mr. President, Your Honours, the
22 characteristics of the 7th Muslim Brigade was that it
23 was made up of the members of purely those individuals
24 which adhered to all the religious rights and customs
25 in the unit. Therefore, these were exclusively those
1 members, no other members but the Muslims made up that
2 particular brigade.
3 Q. But not Muslims, if I have understood you
4 correctly, as a nationality as an ethnicity, but
5 Orthodox Muslims, Orthodox believers?
6 A. Yes, that's right.
7 Q. What about the foreign citizens that you
8 mentioned, where were they in this composition?
9 A. They were in the El Mudzahid Unit and the
10 other one I mentioned the Abdul Atif Unit.
11 JUDGE JORDA: Mr. Nobilo, we're going to take
12 a short break for about ten minutes to allow the
13 interpreters to continue this long morning. All right,
14 let's take our break for the ten minutes and suspend
15 the hearing now.
16 --- Recess taken at 10.50 a.m.
17 --- On resuming at 11.10 a.m.
18 JUDGE JORDA: The hearing is resumed, please
19 have the accused brought in.
20 (The accused entered court)
21 JUDGE JORDA: Mr. Nobilo.
22 MR. NOBILO: Thank you, Mr. President.
23 Q. Brigadier, before we continue with your
24 presentation we can see here the organisational set up
25 of the 3rd Corps; could you explain to the Court what
1 is the difference or what is the advantage, whichever
2 you like, regarding the organisational set up? What
3 was the difference between the Territorial Defence and
4 the HVO? How can you explain that in a relatively
5 short period of time the BH army managed to build up
6 its entire military structure?
7 A. Your Honours, the organisation of the
8 Territorial Defence and of the BH army was inherited
9 from the former system so that it was much easier to
10 set it up. Actually, all that was done was to fill in
11 the units with men, according to the previous
12 organisational structure, and to set up additional ones
13 in view of the larger number of men that were joining
15 Q. Whereas the HVO, it had to start from
16 scratch; isn't that so?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Brigadier, will you please continue this
19 discussion about the 3rd Corps. We were talking about
20 its structure, the composition of the Muslim units, El
21 Mudzahid and the Abdul Atif Unit.
22 A. Your Honours, I couldn't hear the
23 interpretation, I was listening to the French. So,
24 could you repeat, please?
25 Q. I was saying that the HVO did not have the
1 advantage of the Territorial Defence because it had to
2 build up its structure from scratch; is that correct?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. I went on to say, could you continue your
5 presentation and discussion of the 3rd Corps as you had
7 A. Your Honours, let me briefly go back a little
8 bit to the command of the 3rd Corps.
9 JUDGE JORDA: Brigadier, you can speed up a
10 little bit. I know that this happened far in the past.
11 Mr. Nobilo has told us what you're going to talk about,
12 time is essential for all of us; so, could you please
13 speed up a little bit? Be clear, be a little more
14 dynamic. So will you make a little effort, please?
15 A. Yes.
16 MR. NOBILO: Mr. President, it's my mistake,
17 the witness speaks naturally very fast, so I kept
18 cautioning him not to speak so fast in the courtroom
19 and he is taking me a little too seriously.
20 JUDGE JORDA: It's not, I must say, it's not
21 a question of speed. It's true there are witnesses who
22 speak quickly and others slowly, but it's a question of
23 expressing his thoughts. Could you be a little more
24 concrete in your ideas and respond to Mr. Nobilo's
25 questions? Because sometimes it's not very clear.
1 So, Mr. Nobilo, will you pinpoint your
2 question so that we can proceed in a more efficient
4 A. Thank you, Mr. President.
5 The next slide shows the units and their
6 command posts. The command post in Zenica, the
7 headquarters and support units in Zenica.
8 JUDGE JORDA: There are no particular
9 comments regarding this slide, Mr. Nobilo, except if
10 someone has a question.
11 MR. NOBILO: Yes, but I wanted the witness to
12 describe the structure of 3rd Corps and to situate the
13 units in space, because this will be of importance
14 later on for an understanding of the events, all these
15 units, the brigades, of course, which are the greatest
16 interest, the 7th Muslim and the El Mudzahid. We can
17 neglect the units attached to headquarters.
18 Q. Could you tell us where they were located in
19 terms of territory?
20 A. The commands of the brigades were as
21 follows: The 303rd Brigade, command place in Zenica;
22 the 323rd Light Brigade in Kiseljak; the 306th Light
23 Brigade with a command post in Han Bila. The mountain
24 brigades: The 302nd had its command post in Zenica;
25 the 303rd, also in Zenica; the 304th also in Zenica --
1 I'm sorry, 314th. The 304th Brigade had its command
2 post in Breza; the 309th Mountain Brigade had its
3 command post in Kakanj; the 310th Mountain Brigade had
4 its command post in Fojnica; the 319th Mountain Brigade
5 with the command post in Zepce; the 312th Mountain
6 Brigade with command post in Travnik; the 308th
7 Mountain Brigade with its command post in Novi Travnik;
8 325th Mountain Brigade with its command post in Vitez;
9 the 328th Mountain Brigade with its command post in
10 Zavidovici; the 333rd Mountain Brigade with its command
11 post in Busovaca; the 350th Mountain Brigade with its
12 command post in Zenica. This is also a Jajce brigade,
13 as it was composed of displaced persons from Jajce by
14 the Municipal Staff of Jajce.
15 The 317th Mountain Brigade with its command
16 post in Gornj Vakuf; the 307th Mountain Brigade with
17 its command post in Bugojno; the 17th Krajina Mountain
18 Brigade with its command post in Travnik; and the 27th
19 Krajina brigade with its command post in Travnik, also.
20 Q. These mountain brigades were founded as early
21 as December 1992; weren't they?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Could you tell us the strength of the
24 individual brigades and their zones of responsibility,
25 rather which areas those brigades covered?
1 A. Yes. But, Mr. President, I will go back to
2 the previous slide. The 312th Brigade consisting of
3 the first and second Travnik detachment with a command
4 post in Travnik had a zone of responsibility here
5 facing the army of the Bosnian Serbs. And in depth,
6 the strength of this brigade was between 3.200 and
7 3.500 men.
8 The 306th Brigade, which was composed of the
9 detachments from the TO of Ljuta Greda, Mehurici, Han
10 Bila, with a command post in Han Bila; its zone of
11 responsibility was partly facing the army of the
12 Bosnian Serbs, and it went, had a certain depth. The
13 strength of this brigade was between 2.100 and 2.200
15 The 17th Krajina Brigade with its command
16 post in the barracks in Travnik was created out of the
17 1st and 7th Krajina Brigades, and its strength was
18 3.300 men.
19 In the territory of Travnik we also had the
20 27th Brigade, 27th Krajina Brigade, consisting mostly
21 of Muslim refugees from Banja Luka and Prijedor. The
22 strength was about 2.100 men. Its commander was Rasim
24 In Travnik there was also the command of the
25 third battalion of the 7th Muslim Brigade.
1 Q. Just a moment, Brigadier. What was the
2 strength of the third battalion?
3 A. About 900 men. And the command post was in
4 Travnik, and the command of this brigade was in Zenica,
5 which means that one battalion of that brigade was
6 situated in Travnik.
7 Q. What about the El Mudzahid detachment; was it
8 situated in Travnik?
9 A. It's command post was in the village of
11 Q. How many men did it have?
12 A. About 400 men.
13 Q. So, those are the foreign nationals that you
14 referred to?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. I must also refer to the 7th Muslim Brigade
17 which consisted of Muslim armed forces, those that I
18 mentioned earlier on.
19 Please continue.
20 A. Also in Travnik there were the MUP units, the
21 special police, the strength was about 800 men. Novi
22 Travnik, in Novi Travnik the 308th Brigade was formed
23 consisting of three detachments with a command post in
24 Novi Travnik. It consisted of three battalions. The
25 strength of this brigade was between 2.100 and 2.300
2 In addition to this brigade in Novi Travnik
3 there was also a company of the 7th Muslim Brigade with
4 about 100 men, and also, MUP units with about 200 men.
5 In Novi Travnik we also had units of PPN,
6 Sosna (Phoen).
7 Q. What does that mean?
8 A. They call themselves special purpose units.
9 Q. And what was the function of those soldiers?
10 What are they known for?
11 A. The function of this unit was actually, this
12 was actually a private army financed by a man whose
13 nickname was Sosa (Phoen). And its strength was about
14 100 men.
15 In Vitez the 325th Brigade was formed
16 consisting of former detachments with a command post in
17 Vitez, and also belonging to it were three battalions,
18 plus a manoeuvring or mobile battalion which continued
19 to be an independent battalion within the composition
20 of the brigade. And the strength of this brigade was
21 2.400 men, and the strength of the battalion was 3.000.
22 Q. You mean 300?
23 A. Yes, 300. Another company was formed in
24 Vitez of the 7th Muslim Brigade consisting of about 100
25 men, and MUP units with about 60 men, 60 members. In
1 Busovaca the 333rd Brigade was formed, its command post
2 was in Busovaca. The strength of this brigade was
3 about 2.100 men. In addition to this brigade there
4 were also MUP units there numbering about 100 men.
5 In Zenica there were four brigades. The
6 301st with a strength of about 2.100 men; the 303rd
7 Mountain Brigade with about 1.800 men, and the command
8 post was in Zenica; the 314th Mountain Brigade which
9 will later become a motorised brigade numbering about
10 2.100 men; and the 330th Light Brigade numbering about
11 2.300 men, units of special purpose forces of the MUP
12 had about 600 members.
13 Typical of this period was the fact that the
14 forces were reorganised, the forces of the Territorial
15 Defence were reorganised to become the army of
16 Bosnia-Herzegovina and the units came under the command
17 of the 3rd Corps. They were linked to the command of
18 the 3rd Corps, and that they were deployed mostly deep
19 within this territory.
20 But in Travnik I omitted to mention, too,
21 special purpose units Mecici and Nanetovi; therefore,
22 in addition to those mentioned, there were these units
23 numbering 60 to 80 men each.
24 Q. Can we describe these as more or less private
1 A. Yes, they were more or less private units,
2 and it was difficult to put them under the control of
3 commands in the process of control and command.
4 Q. Please continue. We're obviously now moving
5 onto another period of time, perhaps we should go back
6 to the previous map. Please let's go back to the
7 previous period. Is it not functioning? Press it once
8 again, please. There we are, that's it.
9 So, we are now talking about the period from
10 the 21st of January to the 30th of January, 1993. We
11 have three indications as usual, the red for the Army
12 of Republika Srpska, the green for the army of
13 Bosnia-Herzegovina and the blue for the HVO. What does
14 this map show?
15 A. Mr. President, Your Honours, in this period
16 from the 21st of January to the 30th of January 1993
17 the units of the 3rd Corps started regrouping of forces
18 to form operative groups out of brigades, and then
19 these operative groups were turned into tactical groups
20 to facilitate the conduct of operations and the control
21 in command when engaging in combat.
22 So that in this period three operative groups
23 were formed; the operative group of Bosanska-Krajina
24 with its command post in Travnik, which included the
25 following units: The 312th, the 506th, the 17th and
1 the 27th Krajina Brigades and the 308th Mountain
2 Brigade. The commander of this operative group was
3 Mehmed Alagic.
4 The operative group west which consisted of
5 the units of the 307th, the 318th Brigade, its
6 commander was Sermo Cikotic and the command post was in
7 Bugojno. The operative group east, with its command
8 post in Visoko. This operative group consisted of the
9 units of the 302nd, the 323rd, the 303rd and parts of
10 the 314th Brigades from Zenica.
11 These operative groups were of a temporary
12 nature, which means that their strength could vary;
13 they could have more or less brigades under their
14 command, depending on the assignments they were given.
15 The operative groups had within their
16 composition tactical groups which also carried out
17 assignments along various axes. Those tactical groups
18 could vary in composition ranging from one battalion to
19 one or two brigades.
20 The beginning of combat activities by the
21 army of Bosnia-Herzegovina in the area of the Lasva
22 River valley started on the 20th to the 21st.
23 Q. What month, you said between the 20th and the
24 21st; are you talking about January?
25 A. Yes, January, 1993.
1 These activities started with the setting up
2 of a checkpoint in the Municipality of Kacuni.
3 Q. So, this is the red dot that now appears
4 towards the bottom of the page?
5 A. Yes. The forces of the operative group
6 Bosanska-Krajina, together with the Lasva tactical
7 group set up this checkpoint, and this marked the first
8 open conflict.
9 From the direction of the village of Kacuni
10 where the communication was intercepted, interrupted
11 between Busovaca and Kiseljak --
12 Q. Is that the main supply route going from
13 Croatia through Herzegovina to this area, or was this
14 of local significance?
15 A. This was the main road for providing
16 supplies, both for the units and the population in the
18 Q. What happened next in the next two or three
19 days that followed?
20 A. On the 25th of January 1993 the forces of the
21 army of Bosnia-Herzegovina launched an attack from the
22 direction of the village of Kacuni, and from the
23 direction of the village of Merdani.
24 Q. What villages?
25 A. The villages of Lasva and the Ducine village.
1 Q. What happened there?
2 A. On that occasion the army of
3 Bosnia-Herzegovina took over these two villages of
4 Lasva and Ducine, it took control of the villages and
5 established a defence line, Lasva-Ducine-Kacuni, and
6 thus completely cut off communication from Busovaca,
7 the Kiseljak Busovaca line.
8 At the same time the forces of the 333rd
9 Brigade from Kacuni drew the line towards the
10 communication, and therefore, cut off all
11 communication. There was a complete cut off of
12 communication from Kiseljak and Busovaca.
13 Q. Can you show us that on the slide, please?
14 You have gone onto the next slide. Can we take it back
15 one? Let's go back a bit.
16 A. So, communications were cut off at Kacuni and
17 the villages of Ducine and Lasva were taken control
19 Q. Can we say that from that time on, actually,
20 later on, were there no other conflicts in that sector
21 around Bilaloci.
22 A. Let us now mention that within this context.
23 At the same time, simultaneously, from 23rd of January,
24 1990 to up until the 24th of January, 1993, the army of
25 Bosnia-Herzegovina directed its forces from Kacuni in
1 the direction of the Village of Bilalovac, where it
2 expanded this communication road.
3 MR. NOBILO: There is an error in transcript
4 or translation. It was 23rd of January, 1993. So
5 we're talking about January 1993 all the time. That is
6 the date we're dealing with.
7 So the communication was cut off, but does
8 that mean that the army of Bosnia-Herzegovina in view
9 of its operations towards Busovaca and Kacuni in depth
10 established control of the territory, so horizontally
11 and in depth, in width and in depth?
12 A. Yes, the territory was extended from Kacuni,
13 the whole of Kacuni, and the whole of Bilalovac.
14 Q. Did the army of Bosnia-Herzegovina only
15 control the road or the surrounding villages as well?
16 A. Yes, all the surrounding villages, both on
17 the left and right side of communication line in this
19 Q. Since that time on, were you able to pass
20 through that road without having an okay from the army
21 of Bosnia-Herzegovina?
22 A. No, we were not. We had to receive
23 authorisation from the BiH army, or if we were
24 accompanied by the UN forces.
25 Q. Please continue.
1 A. In these operations that is here in this
2 region the following units took part: The 301st, part
3 of the unit from Zenica, that is the 301st and from the
4 303rd, 314th, 333rd Brigade because that was its zone
5 of responsibility with its three battalions, part of
6 the 310th Mountain Brigade from Fojnica, one battalion
7 of the 7th Muslim Brigade and units of the Manoeuvre or
8 Mobile Detachment and one company of the military
9 police from the 3rd Corps, the military police from the
10 3rd corps.
11 From the operations that were conducted, we
12 can conclude that the units of the Bosnia-Herzegovina
13 army at this time in this period had taken over the
14 villages of Busina-Lasva and cut through, cut away the
15 enclave Kacuni-Bilalova. They cut the enclave into two
16 parts, Kacuni-Bilalova at the Kacuni-Bilalova line.
17 Q. From that time on, the operative zone for
18 this region had an enclave at the Travnik, Novi
19 Travnik, Vitez, Busovaca enclave and the second
20 enclave, Kiseljak, Fojnica and the surrounding
22 A. Yes, that's correct.
23 Q. Please continue.
24 A. We now move on to this red area on the map.
25 The red area represents the army of the Republic of
1 Srpska. The green is the BH army and the blue is the
2 HVO. In this period from the 15th of April to the 19th
3 of April, 1993, the deployment and activities of the
4 forces of the BH army, the forces of the army of
5 Bosnia-Herzegovina, as I say, took over combat
6 activities in the following directions: Zenica,
7 Cadaskuper and Zenica. In fact, Jezara,
8 Podrica, Stranje.
9 Q. Jezara is the great steel works in the Town
10 of Zenica; is that right?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. So these arrows now show the direction that
13 the attacks of the BH army took and where the conflicts
14 occurred with members of the Croatian Defence Council?
15 A. On this occasion, the army of
16 Bosnia-Herzegovina attacked from the two directions I
17 mentioned and took over the control of the Croatian
18 part of the Municipality of Zenica. On this occasion,
19 an encirclement was formed and it took away the weapons
20 of the two Croatian brigades there: The HVO. It
21 disarmed them; took all the able-bodied men to Zenica,
22 the KP centre there, detention centre there.
23 A part of the units, which had succeeded in
24 reaching Nova Bila via Nova Kar. Hand in hand
25 with this operation, the forces of the 325th Mountain
1 Brigade with its command in Vitez were reinforced with
2 one battalion of the 7th Muslim Brigade and one
3 battalion of the 17th Krajina Brigade in the villages
4 of Gacice, Donje Veceriska and Stari Vitez. They were
5 holding preparations, making preparations for launching
6 an attack on the main line, in the main direction.
7 Kacuni-Babici. There are the arrows that are appearing
8 on the screen now and continuing towards Gacice and
9 Stari Vitez.
10 The forces of the 325th Brigade, the second
11 battalion, in the direction of Preocica, Krcevine, made
12 preparations for launching an attack on Preocica, Stari
13 Vitez and the attack in this direction with the aim of
14 in these two directions of joining up with the forces
15 in Stari Vitez and gaining control of the SPS locality.
16 Q. What is SPS, when you say SPS?
17 A. It is the factory, explosives factory located
19 Q. By connecting these forces, would these
20 enclaves, once again, be cut into smaller parts?
21 A. Yes, joining these forces would mean cutting
22 the enclave, Travnik-Busovaca.
23 Q. But we have an onslaught on the cutting off
24 of the road linking up Vitez and Busovaca, but we have
25 an onslaught near to Bila?
1 A. Yes, hand in hand with this operation and the
2 main direction it took the forces of the 325th Brigade
3 in the villages of Ahmici and Nadioci, and the forces
4 of the 306th Brigade in the region of the Village of
5 Grbavica were preparing to cut off communications
6 between Vitez and Busovaca and Vitez-Nova Bila. In
7 this way, they would ensure the free passage and it
8 would be free for operations along the basic line of
9 attack and would place under their control the
10 factories of the military, the military factories, the
11 SPS factory or the military factory for explosives.
12 Q. From what you have just said, do you consider
13 that it was the main aim of the attack, the first aim
14 to take over the explosives factory?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. I have a very exact piece of information that
17 the special unit of the police from Sarajevo took part
18 in the operation. What was its task?
19 A. The special position unit of MUP from
20 Sarajevo had the task of -- that is to say, its members
21 were professionals for explosives and it was their goal
22 to safeguard the factory when the forces took control
23 of the factory to see that no undesired incidents took
25 Q. Thank you. May we proceed now? If you have
1 completed your picture of Vitez, can we look at the
2 situation in Travnik, Novi Travnik, was there any
3 fighting there or did relative peace reign there?
4 A. No, I was just going to say that the units of
5 the 333rd Brigade were launching an attack from the
6 direction of the Village of Loncari, Dusina and from
7 the direction of the Village of Kacuni.
8 Q. On the territory of the municipality of
9 Busovaca and under the control of the HVO; is that
11 A. Yes, it is.
12 Q. Let's proceed. In the period between the
13 15th of 19th of April, were there any conflicts, any
14 fighting there?
15 A. Yes, there was, but they were, in fact, from
16 a distance. They were attacks launched from a
17 distance. There was no moving of forces towards the
18 defence line and the HVO, so there was no combat.
19 Q. What happened next? Let us look at the
20 situation in the municipalities of Vitez and Busovaca
21 in the days to come. Once again, for the transcript,
22 the yellow arrows are the direction of the attack of
23 Bosnia-Herzegovina and the red points are the
24 localities where they were confronted with the units of
25 the HVO, the Croatian Defence Council? My mistake,
1 green arrows, the green arrows denote the area of
2 attack of the army of Bosnia-Herzegovina.
3 A. The distribution on this map, as on the
4 previous maps, once again the red arrows denote the
5 army of the Bosnian Serbs. The green arrows represent
6 the army of Bosnia-Herzegovina. Not arrows, I am
7 referring to the colour green. And the blue colour was
8 the -- were the units of the Croatian Defence Council.
9 Q. Can we say that this map shows that some
10 lines of the front have been established already
11 because we see some contours of a future enclave, the
12 shape that it was to take later on?
13 A. Yes, we can. Some of the lines of the front
14 have been established, such as the one towards Zenica
15 and the front towards -- the front-line towards Novi
16 Travnik. That is to say, in the zone of responsibility
17 of the 325th Mountain Brigade.
18 Q. Please continue.
19 A. The distribution and activities of the army
20 of Bosnia-Herzegovina in the period ranging from the
21 25th of May to the 10th of June, 1993. After taking
22 control of the Croatian areas around Zenica and cutting
23 off communication between Busovaca and Kiseljak, the
24 army of Bosnia-Herzegovina moved its attack towards the
25 area of the Lasva River Valley to Travnik, Novi
1 Travnik, Vitez and Busovaca.
2 Q. Can we say that this was a new offensive?
3 A. Yes, we can. Yes, it was.
4 Q. Please continue.
5 A. The beginning of the onslaught by the army of
6 Bosnia-Herzegovina started at the beginning of June
7 with an attack on the command of the star headquarters
8 of Travnik. And in this attack, the army of
9 Bosnia-Herzegovina had managed make a complete
10 surprise. They completely surprised their opponents
11 and attacked the units holding the defence line towards
12 the army of the Bosnian Serbs. First of all in Travnik
13 and then in Novi Travnik --
14 Q. Just to make it clear for the transcript, can
15 you tell us exactly who attacked whom? Where were the
16 HVO units located and at what time did the units of the
17 army of Bosnia-Herzegovina attack and from what
19 A. The units of the HVO held the line towards
20 the Vlasic Plateau from Turbe up to the Lasva Gormila
21 area, it is the area of the Municipality of Travnik.
22 And it moved on towards this part, which was held by --
23 which was held towards Vocnjak. In the area of Novi
24 Travnik, they held the line towards Palej and Komar.
25 Q. Then what happened?
1 A. The units of the army of Bosnia-Herzegovina
2 launched an attack in Travnik with five brigades and
3 reinforcements from Zenica, the 303rd, which launched
4 an attack via Ovnak towards Guca. The 312th -- no, the
5 306th Brigade launched an attack on -- in the direction
6 of Pokrajcici. The 312th, the 17th Krajina and the
7 27th Krajina and the 3rd Battalion of the 7th Muslim
8 Brigade, launched attacks on units holding the defence
9 line towards the army of the Bosnian Serbs.
10 Q. The units of the HVO?
11 A. Yes, the units of HVO. The units of MUP, the
12 Ministry of the Interior, encircled the star
13 headquarters in Travnik and blocked them. At the same
14 time, the 308th, working in cohorts with the 307th and
15 317th, launched an attack on the units holding the
16 defence line towards the Bosnian Serbs in Kamenjas
17 Mravinjak towards Goles and Komar.
18 They were completely successful and took
19 control of these positions. They captured the
20 remaining part of the command in Travnik. The others
21 retreated to the Vlasic Plateau where the Serbs took
22 them prisoners and took them to the Manjaca Camp. And
23 the same thing happened with the units of the HVO from
24 Novi Travnik.
25 Q. You wished to say that in the Municipality of
1 Travnik, the army of Bosnia and Herzegovina hit from
2 the rear, the units of the HVO holding the front-line
3 towards the Serbs and the HVO was not able to defend
4 itself and then move to enemy territory where they were
6 MR. HARMON: Objection, Your Honour. This is
7 not what the witness said. If the witness intended to
8 say that, I make an objection. And have the witness
9 say that and not Mr. Nobilo say it.
10 JUDGE JORDA: Brigadier, what is your answer
11 to that? Forget what Mr. Nobilo said and give your own
12 interpretation of the Bosnian army attack on Travnik in
13 relation to the units which apparently were on this
14 front. What is your answer?
15 A. Mr. President, Your Honours, I said that the
16 units which withdrew across the territory, the defence
17 line of the army of the Republic of Srpska were
18 captured, were disarmed and taken to the Manjaca camp
19 by the army of the Bosnian Serbs.
20 JUDGE JORDA: Have we completed this
21 sequence? I think we need to take a break, but it
22 might be best to finish with this series of questions.
23 MR. NOBILO: Mr. President, just one
24 question. I just wanted to summarise. We do that very
25 often here because he spoke of so many units that we
1 laymen tend to get lost. So I wanted to make a summary
2 and I think that is customary. But with what the
3 witness has just said, I have just one question to ask
4 to make it quite clear.
5 Q. Why did the units of the HVO flee to the Serb
7 A. Because they found themselves between two
8 armies, positioned between two armies and they were
9 attacked from the rear.
10 Q. By whom?
11 A. By the units of the army of
12 Bosnia-Herzegovina, which can be seen from the maps
13 that I presented.
14 MR. NOBILO: Thank you. Mr. President, this
15 would be a good time to break if you agree.
16 JUDGE JORDA: Very well. We'll take a 20
17 minute break and we'll start around 25 minutes from
19 --- Recess taken at 12.10 p.m.
20 --- On resuming at 12.35 p.m.
21 JUDGE JORDA: We'll now resume the hearing,
22 have the accused brought in, please.
23 (The accused entered court)
24 JUDGE JORDA: Mr. Nobilo, we're going to
25 continue until 1.30, I think the witness will have to
1 come back, because I'm sure that there is going to be a
2 cross examination, so I suppose we come back on the
3 21st of September. You decide, let us continue now for
4 the time being.
5 MR. NOBILO: Thank you, Mr. President.
6 Q. Brigadier, after the break, let us continue.
7 We ended with that unfortunate event in Travnik and the
8 elimination of the HVO from the municipality of
9 Travnik. So, please continue.
10 A. Mr. President, Your Honours, in the territory
11 of the Municipality of Novi Travnik again a front line
12 was established towards the Bosnian Serb army and they
13 crossed over.
14 JUDGE RIAD: Excuse me, sometimes there are,
15 well, he said we would come back on the 21st of this
16 month and it was transcribed as "settlement". It is
17 21st of September.
18 MR. NOBILO: Yes, yes, of course, we agree.
19 JUDGE JORDA: I meant to say September and it
20 came out as "settlement"; how can I make progress in
21 English if that is going to happen? Let's go on.
22 MR. NOBILO:
23 Q. Brigadier, let us be more precise, what do
24 you mean capturing the lines. Where were the HVO
25 troops and what happened after that?
1 A. The HVO units were holding the defence lines
2 at Kamenjas Mravinjaci towards the Bosnian Serb army.
3 By carrying out an attack, the BH army attacked with
4 three brigades, the 308th, the 307th, and the 317th,
5 and parts of the El Mudzahid detachment, and a company
6 of the 7th Muslim Brigade.
7 They captured the existed, regulated lines
8 facing the Bosnian Serbs, and as we will see later on,
9 they gained control of the Croatian villages near Novi
10 Travnik, Pecina, Rude, Jakovici, Kovacici Novkovici.
11 Q. Tell us, the Croatian population from Travnik
12 and Novi Travnik; did they stay there or did they flee?
13 A. The inhabitants of these villages left,
14 together with the army, crossing the territory of the
15 Bosnian Serb army. In the territory of Vitez
16 municipality the BH army carried out an attack with
17 three brigades; the 325th Brigade, the 301st Brigade,
18 from Zenica; and 330th Brigade from Zenica, with the
19 second battalion of the 7th Muslim Brigade, and with
20 parts of the El Mudzahid detachment.
21 The main objective was to link up with forces
22 from Kruscica and from Poculice on the Poculice, Kacuni
23 axis and the Bobasi axis, so as to capture the
24 explosives factory in Vitez.
25 Q. How did that end? Did they capture the
1 factory, or was the attack halted?
2 A. The attack was halted, or rather repulsed,
3 and the lines did not change.
4 Q. Very well. Please continue.
5 A. In the territory of Busovaca municipality at
6 the same time the BH army attacked with three brigades;
7 the 301st from Jajce, which was temporarily based in
8 Zenica, that is where its command post was; the 333rd
9 Brigade in Kacuni; and parts of the 314th Motorised
10 Brigade from Zenica.
11 In the region of the Lasva River special MUP
12 units arrived from Sarajevo, and their task was, as we
13 mentioned, to capture the explosives factory in Vitez.
14 Q. So, in the conflict in April, as well as the
15 conflict in June, the main aim of the attack and of all
16 combat activities was to gain control of the explosives
17 factory in Vitez?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Please continue.
20 A. In carrying out this attack one could call it
21 an all-out attack against the Lasva River valley. The
22 BH army had the support of a hundred mortars of 120
23 millimetres; ten Howitzers of 105, 155 and 122
24 millimetre calibre; eight to ten anti-air guns intended
25 for targets in the air; 25 to 30 anti-air machine guns,
1 also designed for action against targets in the air;
2 two to three tanks; and two to three armoured weapons
3 of 76 millimetre calibre known as Zis.
4 With this strong military support they also
5 used some of the artillery pieces directed towards the
6 Bosnian Serb army.
7 The basic goal of the army was to capture and
8 place under its control the communication line going
9 from Travnik through Vitez and Zenica, as well as the
10 Zenica Visoko road, whereby it would gain control of
11 the factory of military explosives in Vitez and also
12 place under its control the entire Lasva River valley.
13 One of the goals was actually achieved. The
14 operative group of Bosanska-Krajina managed to link up
15 with the operative group west, and the preconditions
16 were established for capturing the factory.
17 In this period the BH army did place under
18 its control the factory, a special purpose factory
19 called Bratsvo in Novi Travnik.
20 Q. Will you tell us what does that factory
22 A. The factory produced artillery pieces from 60
23 to 122 millimetre calibres; that is, mortars of 60 and
24 120, and 122 millimetre Howitzers, as well as launchers
25 of 128 millimetres. And they also assembled in that
1 factory artillery pieces known as Oganj and Vatra
3 Q. Please continue.
4 A. The deployment and activities shown on this
5 map, the red stands for the front line towards the
6 Bosnian Serb army; the green indicates the units of the
7 BH army; and the blue are the HVO units.
8 The deployment and activities of the BH army
9 from the 5th of September 1993 until the 9th of January
10 1994, as the fundamental goals had not been achieved,
11 the command of the BH army and of the 3rd Corps, making
12 use of the advantages gained in its combat operations
13 so far, carried out preparations for continuing combat
14 operations so as to gain full control of the Lasva
15 River valley.
16 Q. Brigadier, for the benefit of the transcript,
17 we see on the map that the entire area of Travnik is
18 fully in the hands of the BH army and that most of Novi
19 Travnik, most of the actual town of Novi Travnik and
20 the Municipality of Novi Travnik was also held by the
21 army of Bosnia-Herzegovina; is that correct?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Please continue.
24 A. Perhaps I should have pointed out that they
25 gained full control the Novi Travnik and established a
1 front line in the region of Nevic Polje and in Novi
2 Travnik just below the Vilenica facility, across the
3 village of Zubici and on to half the town. The front
4 line in town was at the bus station.
5 Q. So that was the appearance of the enclave
6 regarding the HVO in this period of time in the Lasva
7 River valley. What happened next?
8 A. The aim was to gain full control of the whole
9 of the valley whereby they would have completed the
10 process of military production.
11 Q. What do you mean when you say completed the
12 process of production? Does that mean that in the
13 whole structure of the military industry all that was
14 lacking was an explosives factory?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. So, the army of Bosnia and Herzegovina lacked
17 in the chain of production of military equipment, they
18 lacked an explosives factory?
19 A. Yes, that is what I said. Having captured
20 the factory Novi Travnik all they needed to complete
21 the chain of production was the explosives factory in
23 Q. You mean the BH army. I'm saying this for
24 the benefit of the transcript, to make it clear.
25 A. Yes. And they also needed to liberate
1 territories to recircle the Muslims displaced from
2 Bosanska-Krajina and other areas under the control of
3 the Army of Republika Srpska, at the time the Bosnian
4 Serb army.
5 Q. When you said the main aim was the factory,
6 you said they brought experts for explosives from
7 Sarajevo, and now you said the second aim was to
8 capture more territory to resettle Muslim refugees; how
9 do you know this? How did you establish this fact?
10 A. With the arrival of the 1st and 7th, which
11 later became the 17th Brigade, the Krajina Brigades
12 from Bosanska Krajina, and also the refugees who were
13 already there, when liberating the villages of Lasva
14 and Dusina, refugees from Jajce were settled there
16 Q. You mean when the Croatian population moved
18 A. Yes, when the Croats moved out refugees from
19 Jajce were settled there.
20 Q. Do you have information that certain military
21 groupings already had designated how they would be
23 A. I cannot confirm this data with any
24 documents, but through talks we learned that the local
25 people said, "Free some area for yourselves so that you
1 can continue to live here in peace," and they advocated
2 the policy of never returning to Krajina.
3 Q. So you're talking about the Krajina brigades
4 of Bosnia-Herzegovina?
5 A. Yes. The next task was to create the
6 preconditions for further advancement in the Lasva
7 River valley towards the south and the coast.
8 The offensive of the BH army against the
9 Lasva Valley can be said to have begun on the 5th of
10 September 1993 with an attack on the village of
11 Zabilje, from the position, from the feature Brdo. On
12 this occasion units entered into the village to a
13 certain extent.
14 On the 18th of September 1993 the BH army
15 carried out attack, an attack on the axis
16 Kruscica-Preocica with the bulk of its forces,
17 Kruscica, Bobasi, Kruscica, Gacice, SDS. And with
18 additional forces in the area of Kruscica-Krcevine.
19 Kruscica-Krcevine, and with this attack they wanted to
20 interrupt communication between Nova Bila and Busovaca,
21 and to create two more enclaves out of the existing
22 enclave by a system of tightening of the encirclement,
23 as it is known, until complete control of the territory
24 was achieved.
25 On the 5th of November, 1993, the BH army
1 carried out an attack from Kruscica against the
2 facility of Zabrige and the settlement of weekend
3 houses. On the same occasion it gained control of the
4 Zabrige feature and established a front line from the
5 weekend homes to Bijelijna, which was just below the
6 Zabrige feature.
7 By capturing this feature the BH army
8 actually had supervision over the SPS factory, that is
9 the factory of military explosives called SBA, because
10 it had it in its field of vision, and it also used
11 infantry weapons in this operation.
12 On the 12th of December 1993 the BH army
13 carried out an attack from Preocica, Sivrino Selo and
14 Pirici against Krizancevo Selo.
15 At the command post of the second battalion
16 of the 325th Brigade and the command of the 3rd Corps,
17 heading these commands was army General Rasim Delic,
18 who attended the execution of this operation.
19 Q. What was the position of Rasim Delic at the
21 A. At the time he was commander of the army of
23 The army of Bosnia-Herzegovina managed to
24 capture the village and to gain full control of this
25 village, Krizancevo Selo.
1 Q. How many people were killed; do you know?
2 A. 74 people were killed in Krizancevo Selo.
3 Q. Please proceed.
4 A. On the 9th of January 1994 the army of
5 Bosnia-Herzegovina continued its offensive from
6 Krizancevo Selo. In the early hours of the morning it
7 breaks through the front line and it manages to
8 intercept the Nova Bila-Busovaca communication line and
9 establishes the defence line next to the United Nations
11 Q. What were the casualties of this operation,
12 if you recall?
13 A. In Bukve Kuce there were 36 dead. That was
14 the official report. And there are people from
15 Krizancevo Selo on Bukve Kuce that are still listed as
17 Q. When we talk about this front line and the
18 casualties there, were these mostly civilians?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Where was the command post of the second
21 battalion of the 325th Brigade?
22 A. In Poculice.
23 Q. Please proceed.
24 A. In carrying out these operations the army of
25 Bosnia-Herzegovina captured a strategic feature for us,
1 that is the Zabrige feature, and it interrupted the
2 line of communication between Nova Bila and Busovaca,
3 the exit from Vitez to Busovaca, and it established the
4 front line, as I have already said.
5 Q. Can you tell us how far the front was from
6 the Vitez hotel, then?
7 A. The front line was 100 metres, about 100
8 metres as the crow flies from the Vitez hotel.
9 Q. You omitted to mention another position held
10 by the BH army throughout this time in Stari Vitez; is
11 it correct that the BH army was an enclave within an
12 enclave in Stari Vitez?
13 A. Yes, in Stari Vitez I may have omitted to say
14 that there were forces the strength of a weak battalion
15 of about 200 to 300 men, and throughout this period
16 from the beginning of the war it existed there as a
17 unit of the BH army.
18 This slide would mark the end of my
19 presentation as far as the Lasva River valley is
20 concerned, the enclave of the Lasva River valley.
21 On this slide you can see a map of
22 Bosnia-Herzegovina. Once again, the mauve parts show
23 the control of the territory under the army of the
24 Republika Srpska. The green indicates control by the
25 BH army, the yellow is the control exerted by the
1 Croatian Defence Council.
2 Q. In which municipalities?
3 A. The Red Square shows the municipality for the
4 Kiseljak, Fojica and Kresevo.
5 JUDGE JORDA: What date is that, please, on
6 the map? What does the map refer to in terms of a
8 MR. NOBILO: This introductory map represents
9 the period of the Lasva agreement, the final appearance
10 of the enclave at the end of the war -- the Washington
11 agreement, I'm sorry, the Washington agreement. Yes,
12 an error there in the transcript, the Washington
14 Q. You may continue.
15 A. Kiseljak, Fojnica and Kresevo, the deployment
16 of the forces and activity of the BH army from May 1992
17 to April 1993. At end of 1992 the area of the
18 Municipality of Kresevo, Kiseljak and Fojnica was under
19 a complete encirclement by the BH army with the first
20 operative group and operative group Istok, east.
21 Q. When you mention the operative groups, you
22 have in mind the groups of Bosnia and Herzegovina; is
23 that correct?
24 A. Yes, it is. My presentation refers to the
25 army of Bosnia-Herzegovina. The operative group Istok
1 east with the command post in Visoko and the first
2 operative group with the command post located on Igman.
3 The composition of the operative groups was
4 as follows: Operative group Istok east for this period
5 of time had the following units; the 302nd from the
6 Visoko Mountain Brigade; the 126th Brigade Ilijas; the
7 304th Brigade, Breza; the 309th Mountain Brigade of
8 Kakanj; the units of MUP Visoko; and a detachment of
9 the Abdul Atif with its command post in Visoko, let us
10 recall, that was the unit which had Mujehadeen in its
11 composition. The unit always had Mujehadeen, right
12 up to the end of the war; so the El Mudzahid Unit and
13 the Abdul Atif Unit had within its composition foreign
14 citizens, and mostly they were commanders and soldiers
15 of the unit as a whole.
16 The first operative group within its
17 composition had the following units: The 9th Mountain
18 Brigade from Tarcin; the 145th Brigade; the 105th
19 Mountain Brigade; and parts of the 4th Brigade, about
20 one battalion strong.
21 At the beginning of August the BH army, with
22 its operative group east, Istok, launched an attack in
23 the Municipality of Kiseljak and intercepted
25 Q. At what point did this combat activity take
2 A. The village of Duhri, Han Ploca and Lepenica.
3 And by doing this, they cut across the Lepenica valley
4 from Kiseljak. At the same time they launched an
5 attack along the Ostja Kokoska line with the objective
6 of separating the HVO from the army of the Bosnian
8 Linking up the previous slide with this one
9 and intercepting communication between Busovaca and
10 Kiseljak on the 24th of January, 1993 the Istok
11 operative group launched an attack from the direction
12 of Kacuni in the direction of Bilalovac where it took
13 control of the village of Bilalovac and extended its
14 control in the territory. This links up the Istok,
15 east operative group with the Zapad, west operative
17 In the middle of March, the first operative
18 group launched an attack along the valley of the River
19 Neretvica towards Fojnica. The objective of this
20 attack was to take control of the territory in the
21 valley of the River Neretvica where there are over 20
22 Croatian villages and to link up with the forces of the
23 second operative group -- no, with the Bosanska Krajina
24 operative group, rather. And, with this, a connection
25 would be made between the third and fourth corps via
1 this first operative group.
2 Q. Can we not say that one of the strategic
3 goals of the BH Army in Central Bosnia was precisely to
4 link up their corps?
5 A. Yes, that's true.
6 Q. You may proceed.
7 A. The operations were as follows and the
8 civilian Croat population were taken out of the river
9 upstream along the valley of the River Neretvica.
10 Q. Tell us, where did those inhabitants go to?
11 Did they go to the under territory under HVO control in
13 A. Yes, territory under the control of the HVO.
14 One part was in Kiseljak and the other part towards
16 Q. Please continue. These two pink arrows, what
17 do they indicate?
18 A. The two pink arrows indicate that all
19 communication had been completely cut off between
20 Kiseljak and Busovaca. This brings us to the period
21 from April 1993 to February 1994. The previous slide
22 would have shown that the Army of Bosnia-Herzegovina in
23 its attacks launch had completely taken control of the
24 valley of the River Neretvica and had linked up with
25 the operative group Bosanska Krajina and the first
1 operative group.
2 In this period, after taking control of
3 Bilalovac and cutting off the communication line
4 between Kiseljak and Busovaca, by taking control of a
5 substantial portion of the territory of the valley of
6 the River Neretvica and linking up with the 4th corps,
7 the army Chief of staff assessed that conditions were
8 ripe. The army leadership decided that it was time to
9 control the Lepenica and the Lasva Valley.
10 I do not have a further precise detail
11 because there was an interruption in communications
12 between Busovaca, that is, and Kiseljak.
13 Q. The positions that we can see now, the green
14 denoting the BH Army, the blue colour for the Croatian
15 Defence Council and the pink for the Army of the
16 Republic of Srpska, those are the positions which you
17 were able to monitor in detail up until the beginning
18 of the war in April 1993; is that correct?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Why did you place -- we have another date,
21 February 1994, when the war ended and when peace ensued
22 with the Washington agreement and where there was
23 freedom of movement, what did you determine? Was the
24 situation that you have on the map now, which you date
25 in April, 1993, did the situation change? And if the
1 some changes did take place, please explain them to
3 A. Yes, there were changes, Mr. President and
4 Your Honours. A change did occur after the signing of
5 the Washington agreement because up until that time,
6 the BH Army had taken control of Fojnica and the
7 greater part of the Kresevo territory. And this line
8 here was the official line after the Washington
10 Q. Once again an error in the transcript. My
11 learned colleague, Mr. Hayman, has told me. The
12 witness said that these changes occurred between April
13 1993 and the Washington agreement. After the
14 Washington agreement, there was no fighting after
15 February, 1994. And in the transcript it says that
16 these changes took place after the Washington
17 agreement. So the described changes occurred between
18 April, that is the last moment when our witness could
19 monitor the situation up until the Washington
20 agreements; is that true? In the period between April
21 and the Washington agreement?
22 A. Yes, that's correct.
23 Q. On the map we have double lines at the front
24 for the Croatian Defence Council, the blue lines, what
25 do these double lines show at Kresevo and in the
1 direction of Fojnica between Fojnica and Kiseljak?
2 What do these double lines mean?
3 A. They mean that the units of the HVO had
4 returned, one, a part of the territory had regained
5 control -- no, I apologise, the double lines, the
6 Municipality of Fojnica in its entirety. And this
7 double line, that is parts of the Municipality of
8 Kiseljak and the Municipality of Kresevo. The area
9 here was lost. The BH Army had gained it and reached
10 those lines.
11 Q. Therefore, the external circle, can we say
12 that was the Front-line 1 and the internal circle,
13 Front-line 2. And that is the last sustained, which you
14 found after the Washington agreement when you returned
15 to the territory of Kiseljak?
16 A. Yes, that's right.
17 Q. Please continue.
18 A. On this map, you can see the zones of the BH
20 Q. The zones of responsibility, is that right?
21 A. Yes, the zones of responsibility of the BH
22 army and of the army of the Republic of Srpska with the
23 range of artillery, as well as the zones of
24 responsibility of the operative groups of the 3rd
1 Q. Of the BH Army?
2 A. Yes, of BH Army. The red colour denotes part
3 of the zone of responsibility of the Army of the
4 Republic of Srpska of the 1st Krajina corps with its
5 units, the 7th motorised unit, the 7th light brigade,
6 mountain brigade, the 22nd light brigade and the 23rd
7 light brigade.
8 Q. Well, we're not interested in Serb units at
9 this time. These are the positions of the army of the
10 Republic of Srpska on this map.
11 A. These are the positions of the artillery of
12 the Republic of Srpska army and their range. I think
13 we have another one.
14 Q. What about these two positions? What do
15 these symbols mean? Where is the gun and where is the
17 A. This is a Howitzer, a 122 millimetre Howitzer
18 and the positions of the medium range weaponry and the
19 mortars. The range of this artillery for the region.
20 Q. Within the shape, which is a little like a
21 triangle and has a curved edge, within that area, guns
22 from the positions of the Republic of Srpska army can
23 reach any point within that area. If we look at the
24 top left-hand corner, can you tell us what positions
25 those are? What mountain is that on the map?
1 A. It is the plateau of Vlasic.
2 Q. Can we conclude that Zenica can be
3 incorporated -- can be targeted from two points on the
4 plateau, two positions on the plateau?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. The transcript, once again it failed to
7 include your answer. I asked whether this symbol of
8 the triangle, which is curved along the edge means that
9 from every point within that shape, that an artillery
10 can reach any point. Artillery can reach to any point
11 within that triangle. Can we conclude from this map
12 that Zenica could have been hit without any difficulty
13 from two artillery positions from the Republic of the
14 Republic of Srpska army?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Please continue.
17 A. The blue stands for the HVO units and their
19 Q. What is this yellow line?
20 A. This is the road, or rather, the
21 communication that went from Prozor, Gornji Vakuf,
22 Travnik, Vitez, Busovaca, Kiseljak, over which the war
23 was being waged all this time.
24 Q. So that is the main supply route?
25 A. Yes, the main supply route for this area of
1 Central Bosnia.
2 Q. Brigadier, can you tell me whether that
3 typical of the war in Bosnia-Herzegovina, as well as
4 previous wars, the Second World War, due to the
5 mountainous terrain of Bosnia-Herzegovina, that the war
6 was mostly waged over communication lines because
7 whoever has control over those lines controls the
8 territory; is that conclusion correct?
9 A. Yes. This applies in particular to Central
10 Bosnia and this area where these operations were
12 Q. So the main blood line or the line of life of
13 this whole area was this communication line; wasn't
15 A. Yes. These blue dots mark the military
16 industry facilities in Bugojno.
17 Q. What was manufactured in Bugojno?
18 A. Anti-tank mines in Bugojno and other mines in
19 Novi Travnik. Artillery pieces in Travnik was a
20 maintenance shop for communication means and also in
21 the repair shops where the final assembly was done of
22 vehicles for control and command at the level of the
23 brigade and the marking was RS 30 E.
24 Q. So those are communication vehicles from
25 which one can communicate?
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. There is another blue dot in Zenica?
3 A. In Zenica castings were manufactured for
4 shells. And, in Konjic, in Konjic, ammunition from
5 7.62 to shells for guns of 20 and 40 millimetres.
6 Q. Can we say whether these were all factories
7 established by the former JNA during the time of
8 Yugoslavia that existed there from before?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. If we look at all those factories, is it
11 correct to say that throughout the chain of production
12 of military equipment and weapons, it was only Vitez,
13 that is the explosives factory in Vitez that remained
14 under the control of the HVO?
15 A. Yes.
16 MR. NOBILO: Mr. President, I think it's time
17 to break. The interpreters must be exhausted. So if
18 you agree, maybe this would be a convenient time to
19 break for lunch.
20 JUDGE JORDA: Mr. Harmon.
21 MR. HARMON: Mr. President, I understand
22 we're going to break for the rest of the afternoon at
23 this point in time and not just for lunch. But my
24 question is --
25 JUDGE JORDA: Yes, as I remind you, we don't
1 work on Friday afternoons.
2 MR. HARMON: I have a request. The testimony
3 of Brigadier Zeko is extremely technical and complex.
4 I would request, one, that the Defence provide to the
5 Prosecutor's office a factual summary of the remainder
6 of Brigadier Zeko's testimony.
7 My second request is that the Defence provide
8 to the Prosecutor's office copies of the various slides
9 and variations of the slides. And thus far we've had
10 twelve slides and subvariations of each of those. That
11 they provide those to the Prosecutor's Office by
13 Thirdly, that any additional slides and
14 technical, illustrative aids be also provided to --
15 JUDGE JORDA: Monday there is no hearing.
16 MR. HARMON: I understand, Mr. President.
17 But in order to properly prepare the cross-examination,
18 the order of this Court is that the factual summaries
19 be provided seven days in advance. These are more than
20 just factual summaries, these are highly technical,
21 highly complex illustrations. And, in order to
22 properly analyse these illustrative aids and prepare
23 for cross-examination, I would request that the Court
24 order the Defence to provide those aids that have been
25 used up to this point in time and will be used in the
1 remainder of Brigadier Zeko's testimony.
2 MR. HAYMAN: Mr. President, we would welcome
3 the assistance of the technical booth in printing
4 slides from the -- that is physical prints from the
5 slides that we have depicted. We don't have them at
6 this time and we have, in fact, spoken to the Court
7 staff about the need to do that and it's simply a
8 matter of getting it done. We're happy to provide
9 that. I think there is only -- Mr. Nobilo can address
10 what is left in the testimony there by way of these
11 types of graphical and somewhat technical
12 illustrations. We are near the end. Let me let him,
13 perhaps, give Mr. Harmon some reassuring words in that
15 JUDGE JORDA: There are two requests.
16 MR. NOBILO: Mr. President, we do not have a
17 summary. We have the transcript and everything has
18 been said in the transcript. It's in great detail and
19 the Prosecution can use the transcript from these
20 hearings. As my colleague has said, we would be glad
21 to print these drawings and maps for the Prosecution,
22 but we do not have any summary to give.
23 JUDGE JORDA: There are two requests, if I
24 have understood correctly. The Prosecutor is first of
25 all asking that he be provided on paper with the
1 slides, if that's what I have understood. There is no
2 objection in principle on the part of the Defence, it's
3 simply an assistance that's required from the technical
4 services from the time that it would be needed to
5 prepare them. I think that would be satisfactory to
6 Mr. Harmon.
7 Are we in agreement with that first point,
8 Mr. Harmon?
9 MR. HARMON: Yes.
10 JUDGE JORDA: The Prosecutor has also made a
11 second request. You know that you must provide a
12 summary to the Trial Chamber. I would like you to do
13 it before the 21st of September for the other witnesses
14 that you're going to call. That is for the rest of the
15 witnesses that you call. It happens, let me remind
16 you, that for this week we did not require that this be
17 done. We asked for an oral summary, given the fact
18 that the Trial Chamber's order had been issued on the
19 3rd of September. Further to your presentation, we
20 would like you to make these summaries.
21 Mr. Prosecutor, I think this does, in fact,
22 cause somewhat of a problem. I would like to speak
23 with my colleagues. In the middle of testimony, can we
24 reverse an order that the Trial Chamber has already
25 rendered? I would like to consult my colleagues on
1 that matter.
2 JUDGE JORDA: The Trial Chamber has taken a
3 decision. We cannot go back on the decision of 3
4 September or on the decision taken the 1st day of this
5 week when we made an exception to the written summary,
6 which you must provide us with all the facts that you
7 want to underscore. Furthermore, we cannot go back on
9 The second comment is that if the Prosecutor
10 is not ready to conduct his cross-examination, that is
11 to do with effectively and appropriately from his point
12 of view, he will always have the time to have the
13 witness brought back.
14 In the third place, if the Defence of its own
15 will wishes to provide a summary of the facts about
16 which it wishes to continue to question the witness, it
17 can do so. That is with the Defence's discretion. If
18 the Defence does not wish to at that time, the
19 Prosecutor will be accorded the right to have the
20 witness to come back for that part of the
21 cross-examination that he needs him to come back for.
22 If there are no other comments, I believe it
23 is now time to adjourn this session.
24 --- Whereupon proceedings adjourned at
25 1.35 p.m., to be reconvened sine die.