1 Thursday, 8th July, 1999
2 (Open session)
3 --- Upon commencing at 10.15 a.m.
4 JUDGE JORDA: Please be seated. Have the
5 accused brought in. Let me be sure that the
6 interpreters can hear me.
7 (The accused entered court)
8 JUDGE JORDA: Good morning to Prosecution and
9 Defence counsel, to the accused. We can now resume. I
10 see that Mr. Harmon is getting up.
11 MR. HARMON: Good morning, Mr. President.
12 Good morning, Your Honours. Good morning, counsel.
13 With the court's indulgence, I have received
14 a copy of a document which I'd like to introduce into
15 the record. It is a document which I have shown
16 counsel. It is not in contest, it is simply a document
17 that completes oral testimony that has been presented
18 to this Chamber earlier, and it is a secession by
19 Bosnia and Herzegovina deposited with the Swiss Federal
20 Council, which is a declaration adopting the four
21 Geneva Conventions and the Additional Protocols, and
22 with the court's permission, I would like to deposit
23 this document into the record.
24 JUDGE JORDA: Any objections? Mr. Hayman was
25 right. He said so long as you did not say the word
1 "definitive" or "final," he was to be somewhat wary.
2 MR. HAYMAN: We will yield on this one
3 document and let the Prosecutor proceed out of order,
4 Mr. President.
5 JUDGE JORDA: Very well. Thank you,
6 Mr. Hayman.
7 Can you actually say the ritual sentence that
8 you have rested your case?
9 MR. HARMON: We have we rested our case.
10 Thank you, counsel.
11 THE REGISTRAR: This will be 787.
12 JUDGE JORDA: Thank you very much. We can
13 get back to the serious aspect of our work and give the
14 floor to Mr. Hayman. Where do things stand with your
16 You said what, Mr. Dubuisson? What was the
17 number again? Yes, thank you.
18 MR. HAYMAN: Good morning Mr. President.
19 Good morning, Your Honours. We are ready to proceed
20 this morning, Mr. President.
21 First, I would like to inform the court that
22 we've now had a chance to review Prosecutor's
23 Exhibit 786 and we have no objection to its admission.
24 JUDGE JORDA: Yes. It's admitted. What do
25 you plan to do now? Do you think that you'll finish
2 MR. HAYMAN: I believe, Mr. President, we
3 need about two hours to introduce some documents to the
4 court and then we will be prepared to rest the
5 surrebuttal case.
6 I would like to inquire as to the status of
7 Defence Exhibit 197, the diary, because until that's
8 resolved, we may not be in a position to rest.
9 I know that we have been told here in Court
10 that some papers have been filed with another Trial
11 Chamber. It's our position that we don't need to hear
12 from another Trial Chamber, the document is not in the
13 custody, if you will, under seal of another Trial
14 Chamber. What we need is for the court to admit it
15 based on the Prosecutor's representation to the court
16 that the material portion or portions of the diary were
17 authenticated by a Prosecution witness in another
18 case. At that point, we believe the Prosecutor should
19 not be able to put forth an objection in this Trial
20 Chamber to the document on the grounds of
22 How would the court like to proceed as to
23 Defence 197, Your Honour?
24 JUDGE JORDA: Mr. Harmon, do you have any
1 MR. HARMON: Mr. President and Your Honours,
2 I have followed the instructions of the Trial Chamber
3 and have filed with the Kupreskic Trial Chamber the
4 documents that the Court asked me to do so. I'm
5 waiting a reply.
6 Clearly this particular document, there are
7 portions of it which I represented to this Chamber were
8 not identified by the witness as being his or being
9 attributed to him. There are only a few of those
10 pages, as I recall. As to the others, I have
11 absolutely no objection to the document being admitted,
12 but I don't want the whole document admitted because of
13 the problems that I have expressed to this Trial
15 I do not anticipate that the Kupreskic Trial
16 Chamber is going to oppose what was requested by this
17 Trial Chamber and which I then submitted to it. I just
18 have not heard back and I have not been informed that
19 there has been a ruling on the request that was made by
20 me to the Kupreskic Trial Chamber, but subject to that
21 request being granted, I have no objection to 197 going
22 into evidence.
23 JUDGE JORDA: Mr. Registrar, could you take
24 that exhibit out again, please?
25 Thank you, Mr. Registrar. All right. It
1 seems to me that Trial Chamber II, presided over by
2 Judge Cassese, requests the Victims and Witnesses
3 Unit -- let me turn to Mr. Fourmy to make sure I'm
4 saying the right thing -- to ask whether there were any
6 I think under those conditions, next week we
7 can let you know whether we're going to admit the
8 exhibit. I don't think it's absolutely urgent to tell
9 you right now. Do you have any objection to our
10 proceeding that way?
11 MR. HAYMAN: We can, Mr. President, but if
12 the court did not admit it, we may seek to call the
13 witness who testified in the other case, because the
14 witness, as we understand it, in essence authenticated
15 the document in the other case.
16 We don't know who that person is. It is a
17 secret protected witness. So if the document is not
18 accepted, we may well ask the court to procure the
19 attendance of this witness, and we will bring the
20 witness in and that witness can tell this court that
21 indeed that person authored the document. I don't want
22 to delay the proceedings by taking that step if it's
23 necessary. That would be only a last resort on the
24 part of the Defence to seek another witness.
25 JUDGE JORDA: I'm very hesitant to think that
1 we're still going to drag out calling another witness
2 until September. Mr. Fourmy, what do you think?
3 MR. FOURMY: Mr. President, as the Judges
4 were informed as regards the summoning of a witness,
5 even if miracles were to take place, one would need
6 about two weeks. If a witness had to be brought in,
7 that would really jeopardise the calendar that's been
9 Having said that, if the Trial Chamber
10 wishes, I can try to make formal contacts with my
11 counterpart in Trial Chamber II to see whether contacts
12 have already been made with the witness in question, at
13 least to have the information by word of mouth.
14 JUDGE JORDA: Very well. I think that would
15 be best, but let me tell you immediately that I'm
16 extremely hesitant to have another witness brought in,
17 which will completely destroy our calendar. We would
18 have to bring him in in September since there is no
19 other moment to do so, and then you will not be able to
20 make your final arguments. I think we have to be
21 reasonable. This trial has been going for more than
22 two years. I think all arguments have been presented
23 in every direction.
24 I understand your concern, Mr. Hayman, it is
25 your duty to your client, but the Judges also have
1 obligations. I will fulfil mine as well in respect of
2 the higher needs of justice, which means that a trial
3 must be concluded equitably and within a reasonable
5 Therefore, if you will agree, we will take
6 all precautions necessary. We will ask Mr. Fourmy --
7 thank you Mr. Fourmy -- to contact his counterpart in
8 the other Trial Chamber, perhaps even with Judge
10 I would like this to be admitted. I hope
11 that there are no objections about it, because I don't
12 think it can in any way prejudice the rights of the
13 accused, but the idea of bringing in another witness, I
14 can tell you right now I would use the Rules -- the
15 powers conferred by the Rules in order to present
16 that. Otherwise, we would have to come in in September
17 and then the whole schedule would be disturbed. That
18 is not something that would be very good just because
19 of the need for an authentication of the diary.
20 All right. In theory, we'll give you the
21 answer next week, but, Mr. Fourmy, and I thank you,
22 Mr. Fourmy for doing so, I will try to resolve that
24 Let me give you the floor again, Mr. Hayman.
25 MR. HAYMAN: Thank you, Mr. President.
1 Mr. President, the first document that we'd like to
2 present relates to the status of General Blaskic as a
3 citizen of Bosnia-Herzegovina, and I have tendered that
4 document to the Registrar.
5 THE REGISTRAR: This is D595.
6 MR. HAYMAN: We were able to obtain this
7 document, Mr. President, after the Prosecutor
8 introduced a document relating to General Blaskic's
9 dual citizenship in Croatia. This document at this
10 time is only in B/C/S, and I would ask Mr. Nobilo to be
11 so kind as to read the pertinent portions.
12 MR. NOBILO: Thank you. This is a brief
13 document. It was issued by Bosnia and Herzegovina, the
14 Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina, the District of
15 Central Bosnia, the municipality of Kiseljak, the
16 delivery number is mentioned and also the date, that
17 is, the 6th of July, 1999.
18 Now I am going to read the text.
19 "On the basis of the provisions of Article
20 171 of the law on general administrative proceedings
21 and Article 30 of the law on citizenship of Bosnia and
22 Herzegovina and at the request of Tihomir Blaskic from
23 Krcevine, we hereby issue a certificate on
25 And then the single number of citizens is
1 mentioned and then it says:
2 "Blaskic Tihomir, son of Ivo, born on the
3 2nd of November, 1960, in Kiseljak, municipality of
4 Kiseljak, is a citizen of Bosnia and Herzegovina and is
5 a Croat by nationality.
6 "This certificate is being issued on the
7 basis of the data from the records of citizens in the
8 register of births in respect of Kiseljak, in the
9 municipality of Kiseljak, page 78, number 188 for
11 And then the rest of the text says that all
12 the administrative taxes have been paid and then there
13 is also an official seal of the municipality of
14 Kiseljak and also a signature of the authorised
16 JUDGE JORDA: Thank you.
17 MR. HAYMAN: Mr. President, the next
18 documents we have pertain to the documents that were
19 the subject, as I understand it, of the ex parte
20 hearing between the Office of the Prosecutor and the
21 Court. We thank the Court for addressing that matter.
22 We have received those documents. It is unclear to the
23 Defence whether those documents need to be kept under
24 seal or whether they can be a matter of public record.
25 We do not know the status of those documents other than
1 the fact that they were provided to us yesterday.
2 JUDGE JORDA: Mr. Registrar?
3 THE REGISTRAR: The documents that were
4 submitted were not public documents.
5 JUDGE JORDA: They are still under seal then;
6 is that correct?
7 THE REGISTRAR: Yes.
8 MR. HAYMAN: Then I suggest, Mr. President,
9 so that we can put these on the ELMO and fully discuss
10 them with the Court, that a closed session would be
12 JUDGE JORDA: Very well. All right. Private
14 (Closed session)
13 Pages 24668-24515 redacted- Closed session
1 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at
2 12.30 p.m., to be reconvened on Monday,
3 the 26th day of July, 1999, at
4 10 a.m.