1. 1 Thursday, 8th July, 1999

    2 (Open session)

    3 --- Upon commencing at 10.15 a.m.

    4 JUDGE JORDA: Please be seated. Have the

    5 accused brought in. Let me be sure that the

    6 interpreters can hear me.

    7 (The accused entered court)

    8 JUDGE JORDA: Good morning to Prosecution and

    9 Defence counsel, to the accused. We can now resume. I

    10 see that Mr. Harmon is getting up.

    11 MR. HARMON: Good morning, Mr. President.

    12 Good morning, Your Honours. Good morning, counsel.

    13 With the court's indulgence, I have received

    14 a copy of a document which I'd like to introduce into

    15 the record. It is a document which I have shown

    16 counsel. It is not in contest, it is simply a document

    17 that completes oral testimony that has been presented

    18 to this Chamber earlier, and it is a secession by

    19 Bosnia and Herzegovina deposited with the Swiss Federal

    20 Council, which is a declaration adopting the four

    21 Geneva Conventions and the Additional Protocols, and

    22 with the court's permission, I would like to deposit

    23 this document into the record.

    24 JUDGE JORDA: Any objections? Mr. Hayman was

    25 right. He said so long as you did not say the word


  2. 1 "definitive" or "final," he was to be somewhat wary.

    2 MR. HAYMAN: We will yield on this one

    3 document and let the Prosecutor proceed out of order,

    4 Mr. President.

    5 JUDGE JORDA: Very well. Thank you,

    6 Mr. Hayman.

    7 Can you actually say the ritual sentence that

    8 you have rested your case?

    9 MR. HARMON: We have we rested our case.

    10 Thank you, counsel.

    11 THE REGISTRAR: This will be 787.

    12 JUDGE JORDA: Thank you very much. We can

    13 get back to the serious aspect of our work and give the

    14 floor to Mr. Hayman. Where do things stand with your

    15 surrebuttal?

    16 You said what, Mr. Dubuisson? What was the

    17 number again? Yes, thank you.

    18 MR. HAYMAN: Good morning Mr. President.

    19 Good morning, Your Honours. We are ready to proceed

    20 this morning, Mr. President.

    21 First, I would like to inform the court that

    22 we've now had a chance to review Prosecutor's

    23 Exhibit 786 and we have no objection to its admission.

    24 JUDGE JORDA: Yes. It's admitted. What do

    25 you plan to do now? Do you think that you'll finish


  3. 1 today?

    2 MR. HAYMAN: I believe, Mr. President, we

    3 need about two hours to introduce some documents to the

    4 court and then we will be prepared to rest the

    5 surrebuttal case.

    6 I would like to inquire as to the status of

    7 Defence Exhibit 197, the diary, because until that's

    8 resolved, we may not be in a position to rest.

    9 I know that we have been told here in Court

    10 that some papers have been filed with another Trial

    11 Chamber. It's our position that we don't need to hear

    12 from another Trial Chamber, the document is not in the

    13 custody, if you will, under seal of another Trial

    14 Chamber. What we need is for the court to admit it

    15 based on the Prosecutor's representation to the court

    16 that the material portion or portions of the diary were

    17 authenticated by a Prosecution witness in another

    18 case. At that point, we believe the Prosecutor should

    19 not be able to put forth an objection in this Trial

    20 Chamber to the document on the grounds of

    21 authenticity.

    22 How would the court like to proceed as to

    23 Defence 197, Your Honour?

    24 JUDGE JORDA: Mr. Harmon, do you have any

    25 objections?


  4. 1 MR. HARMON: Mr. President and Your Honours,

    2 I have followed the instructions of the Trial Chamber

    3 and have filed with the Kupreskic Trial Chamber the

    4 documents that the Court asked me to do so. I'm

    5 waiting a reply.

    6 Clearly this particular document, there are

    7 portions of it which I represented to this Chamber were

    8 not identified by the witness as being his or being

    9 attributed to him. There are only a few of those

    10 pages, as I recall. As to the others, I have

    11 absolutely no objection to the document being admitted,

    12 but I don't want the whole document admitted because of

    13 the problems that I have expressed to this Trial

    14 Chamber.

    15 I do not anticipate that the Kupreskic Trial

    16 Chamber is going to oppose what was requested by this

    17 Trial Chamber and which I then submitted to it. I just

    18 have not heard back and I have not been informed that

    19 there has been a ruling on the request that was made by

    20 me to the Kupreskic Trial Chamber, but subject to that

    21 request being granted, I have no objection to 197 going

    22 into evidence.

    23 JUDGE JORDA: Mr. Registrar, could you take

    24 that exhibit out again, please?

    25 Thank you, Mr. Registrar. All right. It


  5. 1 seems to me that Trial Chamber II, presided over by

    2 Judge Cassese, requests the Victims and Witnesses

    3 Unit -- let me turn to Mr. Fourmy to make sure I'm

    4 saying the right thing -- to ask whether there were any

    5 objections.

    6 I think under those conditions, next week we

    7 can let you know whether we're going to admit the

    8 exhibit. I don't think it's absolutely urgent to tell

    9 you right now. Do you have any objection to our

    10 proceeding that way?

    11 MR. HAYMAN: We can, Mr. President, but if

    12 the court did not admit it, we may seek to call the

    13 witness who testified in the other case, because the

    14 witness, as we understand it, in essence authenticated

    15 the document in the other case.

    16 We don't know who that person is. It is a

    17 secret protected witness. So if the document is not

    18 accepted, we may well ask the court to procure the

    19 attendance of this witness, and we will bring the

    20 witness in and that witness can tell this court that

    21 indeed that person authored the document. I don't want

    22 to delay the proceedings by taking that step if it's

    23 necessary. That would be only a last resort on the

    24 part of the Defence to seek another witness.

    25 JUDGE JORDA: I'm very hesitant to think that


  6. 1 we're still going to drag out calling another witness

    2 until September. Mr. Fourmy, what do you think?

    3 MR. FOURMY: Mr. President, as the Judges

    4 were informed as regards the summoning of a witness,

    5 even if miracles were to take place, one would need

    6 about two weeks. If a witness had to be brought in,

    7 that would really jeopardise the calendar that's been

    8 scheduled.

    9 Having said that, if the Trial Chamber

    10 wishes, I can try to make formal contacts with my

    11 counterpart in Trial Chamber II to see whether contacts

    12 have already been made with the witness in question, at

    13 least to have the information by word of mouth.

    14 JUDGE JORDA: Very well. I think that would

    15 be best, but let me tell you immediately that I'm

    16 extremely hesitant to have another witness brought in,

    17 which will completely destroy our calendar. We would

    18 have to bring him in in September since there is no

    19 other moment to do so, and then you will not be able to

    20 make your final arguments. I think we have to be

    21 reasonable. This trial has been going for more than

    22 two years. I think all arguments have been presented

    23 in every direction.

    24 I understand your concern, Mr. Hayman, it is

    25 your duty to your client, but the Judges also have


  7. 1 obligations. I will fulfil mine as well in respect of

    2 the higher needs of justice, which means that a trial

    3 must be concluded equitably and within a reasonable

    4 time.

    5 Therefore, if you will agree, we will take

    6 all precautions necessary. We will ask Mr. Fourmy --

    7 thank you Mr. Fourmy -- to contact his counterpart in

    8 the other Trial Chamber, perhaps even with Judge

    9 Cassese.

    10 I would like this to be admitted. I hope

    11 that there are no objections about it, because I don't

    12 think it can in any way prejudice the rights of the

    13 accused, but the idea of bringing in another witness, I

    14 can tell you right now I would use the Rules -- the

    15 powers conferred by the Rules in order to present

    16 that. Otherwise, we would have to come in in September

    17 and then the whole schedule would be disturbed. That

    18 is not something that would be very good just because

    19 of the need for an authentication of the diary.

    20 All right. In theory, we'll give you the

    21 answer next week, but, Mr. Fourmy, and I thank you,

    22 Mr. Fourmy for doing so, I will try to resolve that

    23 today.

    24 Let me give you the floor again, Mr. Hayman.

    25 MR. HAYMAN: Thank you, Mr. President.


  8. 1 Mr. President, the first document that we'd like to

    2 present relates to the status of General Blaskic as a

    3 citizen of Bosnia-Herzegovina, and I have tendered that

    4 document to the Registrar.

    5 THE REGISTRAR: This is D595.

    6 MR. HAYMAN: We were able to obtain this

    7 document, Mr. President, after the Prosecutor

    8 introduced a document relating to General Blaskic's

    9 dual citizenship in Croatia. This document at this

    10 time is only in B/C/S, and I would ask Mr. Nobilo to be

    11 so kind as to read the pertinent portions.

    12 MR. NOBILO: Thank you. This is a brief

    13 document. It was issued by Bosnia and Herzegovina, the

    14 Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina, the District of

    15 Central Bosnia, the municipality of Kiseljak, the

    16 delivery number is mentioned and also the date, that

    17 is, the 6th of July, 1999.

    18 Now I am going to read the text.

    19 "On the basis of the provisions of Article

    20 171 of the law on general administrative proceedings

    21 and Article 30 of the law on citizenship of Bosnia and

    22 Herzegovina and at the request of Tihomir Blaskic from

    23 Krcevine, we hereby issue a certificate on

    24 citizenship."

    25 And then the single number of citizens is


  9. 1 mentioned and then it says:

    2 "Blaskic Tihomir, son of Ivo, born on the

    3 2nd of November, 1960, in Kiseljak, municipality of

    4 Kiseljak, is a citizen of Bosnia and Herzegovina and is

    5 a Croat by nationality.

    6 "This certificate is being issued on the

    7 basis of the data from the records of citizens in the

    8 register of births in respect of Kiseljak, in the

    9 municipality of Kiseljak, page 78, number 188 for

    10 1960."

    11 And then the rest of the text says that all

    12 the administrative taxes have been paid and then there

    13 is also an official seal of the municipality of

    14 Kiseljak and also a signature of the authorised

    15 official.

    16 JUDGE JORDA: Thank you.

    17 MR. HAYMAN: Mr. President, the next

    18 documents we have pertain to the documents that were

    19 the subject, as I understand it, of the ex parte

    20 hearing between the Office of the Prosecutor and the

    21 Court. We thank the Court for addressing that matter.

    22 We have received those documents. It is unclear to the

    23 Defence whether those documents need to be kept under

    24 seal or whether they can be a matter of public record.

    25 We do not know the status of those documents other than


  10. 1 the fact that they were provided to us yesterday.

    2 JUDGE JORDA: Mr. Registrar?

    3 THE REGISTRAR: The documents that were

    4 submitted were not public documents.

    5 JUDGE JORDA: They are still under seal then;

    6 is that correct?


    8 MR. HAYMAN: Then I suggest, Mr. President,

    9 so that we can put these on the ELMO and fully discuss

    10 them with the Court, that a closed session would be

    11 required.

    12 JUDGE JORDA: Very well. All right. Private

    13 session.

    14 (Closed session)

    15 (redacted)

    16 (redacted)

    17 (redacted)

    18 (redacted)

    19 (redacted)

    20 (redacted)

    21 (redacted)

    22 (redacted)

    23 (redacted)

    24 (redacted)

    25 (redacted)

  11. 1












    13 Pages 24668-24515 redacted- Closed session













  1. 1 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at

    2 12.30 p.m., to be reconvened on Monday,

    3 the 26th day of July, 1999, at

    4 10 a.m.