1 Monday, 21 May 2007

2 [Open session]

3 [The accused entered court]

4 [The witness entered court]

5 --- Upon commencing at 9.04 a.m.

6 JUDGE PARKER: Good morning. May I remind you, sir, that the

7 affirmation you made at the beginning of your evidence still applies.

8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

9 WITNESS: WITNESS M-039 [Resumed]

10 [Witness answered through interpreter]

11 JUDGE PARKER: Yes, Ms. Residovic.

12 Cross-examination by Ms. Residovic:

13 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Before I start examining the

14 witness, I wish to inform the Trial Chamber that the Viktorija Taseva,

15 legal assistant on the Defence team of Mr. Boskoski, is also present at

16 our hearing this morning.

17 Q. [Interpretation] Good morning, Mr. M-039. My name is

18 Edina Residovic, and together with my colleague Mr. Mettraux, I represent

19 Mr. Ljube Boskoski. On behalf of Mr. Boskoski and on behalf of the

20 Defence team, (redacted)

21 (redacted), but, at the same time, I would like to ask you

22 nevertheless to listen to my questions carefully and could you please

23 answer me to the best of your knowledge in view of the facts involved.

24 Did you understand what I said?

25 A. Yes.

1 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Now, I would like to ask for a

2 private session, briefly, please?

3 JUDGE PARKER: Private.

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7 [Open session]

8 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

9 Q. On Friday, the 10th of August, 2001, you heard mortar fire from

10 7.30 until 8.00, as you said in your statements; is that right?

11 A. Yes, right.

12 Q. One shell fell close to your house; right?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. The women and children were terrified, so you decided to go to

15 Skopje?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. And to leave your family there; right?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Although Macedonia had been confronted with terrorist attacks by

20 the KLA for several months by then, Albanians in Skopje were quite safe.

21 So that was the reason why you took your wife and children to Skopje;

22 right?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. You took your own Golf, a yellow Golf; is that right?

25 A. A yellow colour, yes.

1 Q. Today, you have a Golf III, which is red; is that right?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Although the police stopped you, nevertheless, on that day,

4 sometime after midday you managed to reach Skopje; right?

5 A. About 10.00 or 11.00, I arrived in Skopje.

6 Q. Thank you. From a public telephone booth, you called your

7 brother in Ljuboten, and you found out from him that your mother was very

8 upset because she had received information to the effect that you had

9 been killed; is that correct?

10 A. Correct.

11 Q. You left your family in Skopje, and in order to pacify your

12 mother you decided to go back to Ljuboten on your own?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Since the Macedonian citizens were very upset because of the

15 death of the soldiers of the army of the Republic of Macedonia, you did

16 not use the road via Ljubanci; is that right?

17 A. No.

18 Q. You took a bus on line number 57, and with that bus you came to

19 the last stop in Radishan; right?

20 A. The penultimate stop.

21 Q. As a matter of fact, one can reach Ljuboten from Skopje from the

22 south-east, too, that is to say, opposite Ljubanci via Radishan; is that

23 right?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. On this road, you could notice many civilians who were rather

1 upset and, if I can put it, that were rather hostile after this incident

2 with the shell; is that right?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Page 6, line 2, it says here after the shelling, but actually I

5 was referring to a mine incident at Ljubotenski Bacila.

6 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please, for counsel. The

7 interpreters cannot hear her.

8 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] I beg your pardon, my microphone

9 was not on.

10 Q. So I will repeat my question. In view of the fact that you saw a

11 large number of civilians in the street, you did not dare take the

12 regular road, rather, you decided to walk to the village through the

13 meadows hiding along the way from the local inhabitants; right?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Can you tell me, Mr. M-039, when you came to Ljuboten, did you

16 see your mother?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Can you tell us where your mother was at that point in time?

19 A. In the house.

20 Q. Does that mean that she was in your house?

21 A. Yes. Yes, our house. My father's house.

22 Q. Your mother remained in the house throughout with you; right?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Could you please tell us what time it was when you arrived in

25 Ljuboten?

1 A. I did not look at the watch, but it was between 2.00 or 3.00 in

2 the afternoon.

3 Q. After your arrival in Ljuboten, you found out that one shell had

4 killed a six-year-old boy; right?

5 A. Yes, this is correct.

6 Q. You did not see the death yourself, but you saw the father

7 carrying the boy; right?

8 A. It was not my father who was carrying the boy. We heard that the

9 boy was killed by a shell, and from that moment on, we entered our

10 basements and we didn't move.

11 Q. I do apologise, perhaps you didn't understand what it was that I

12 said. I thought that you saw the father of the killed boy carrying his

13 killed son. Is that what you saw?

14 A. I didn't see his father. We just heard that this boy was killed

15 by a shell, and we then remained in our houses, didn't move about.

16 Q. In your previous statement, you said that you did see the father

17 carrying the dead boy. Then that was probably a mistake, wasn't it, in

18 that statement; is that right?

19 A. Yes, it was a mistake.

20 Q. During the night between Friday and Saturday, you were in your

21 father's house and, for the most part, it was a calm night?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. And it was rather calm on Saturday, too. There was just sporadic

24 fire; right?

25 A. Yes. There was sporadic fire.

1 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Could we now go briefly back into

2 private session, please?

3 JUDGE PARKER: Private.

4 [Private session]

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6 [Open session]

7 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

8 Q. Nearby (redacted)

9 (redacted); is that right?

10 A. The new house. His new house is nearby my house, while his old

11 house is a little bit further.

12 Q. You knew all the sons of (redacted); is that right?

13 A. They are (redacted).

14 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Since we're in public session,

15 perhaps we should redact this part that refers to their relationship.

16 Q. On their new house, there is a balcony from which one can see the

17 positions where the army of the Republic of Macedonia was, and it also

18 faces the entrance into the village from the direction of Ljubanci; is

19 that right?

20 A. To which balcony are you referring?

21 Q. I'm talking about the balcony on the new house of Aziz Bajrami.

22 A. You can't see anything from there. You can go and check for

23 yourself that you cannot see any of the positions of the Macedonian army.

24 What you're saying is not true. You can't see absolutely anything from

25 there.

1 Q. So if someone were to say before this Court that he or she could

2 see from that balcony the houses in the area where the families of Jusufi

3 live or that one could see yet another area, that would be incorrect;

4 right?

5 A. You can't see anything from there.

6 Q. On Sunday morning, you did not see anyone, any of the sons of

7 Aziz Bajrami that is; right?

8 A. Except for Xhelal. And I guess you're speaking about Sunday,

9 right?

10 Q. Yes. So as for Mevludin or Nevaip, you didn't see them that

11 morning?

12 A. No, I didn't.

13 Q. Their new house was much safer. It had a better cellar, and that

14 is why you decided to go to that house; right?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. You were joined at the house by Xhelal Bajrami and Sami Jashari;

17 right?

18 A. Only by Xhelal Bajrami.

19 Q. So to the best of your recollection on that Sunday morning,

20 Xhelal Bajrami, Kadri and Bajram Jashari, you and your father were

21 together; is that correct?

22 A. Yes, that's correct.

23 Q. You remained inside this house until about 13-, 1400 hours; is

24 that correct?

25 A. That is correct. It was afternoon or midday. I can't be very

1 precise about the time. We didn't look at the time.

2 Q. You didn't even know what was going on in the other parts of the

3 village because during that time, the phones in the village were not

4 working; is that correct?

5 A. No. No, I didn't.

6 Q. No one, from among you, had a mobile phone or had any

7 conversation with other persons; is that correct?

8 A. That is correct.

9 Q. You said in your statements that when you saw that the police was

10 coming close to the village, you panicked and left the house; is that

11 correct?

12 A. Yes, that is correct. We left the house.

13 Q. Xhelal Bajrami, Kadri and Bajram Jashari did not go with you.

14 They started going upwards, towards the house of Kadri Jashari, Qani --

15 Qani Jashari; is that correct?

16 A. Yes. They left for the house of Qani Jashari, and then I didn't

17 see them anymore.

18 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Could we move now back into a

19 private session, please?

20 JUDGE PARKER: Private.

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21 [Open session]

22 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're in open session.

23 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

24 Q. From the place where you hid, you heard shootings, but you could

25 not distinguish whether they were coming from the positions of the army

1 or from the group of Macedonians that was near your houses; is that

2 correct?

3 A. No. At the moment, they came not from the army but from the

4 Macedonian police. They came to the house of Basa Natovski [phoen].

5 They fired. They shot at the house. But not the army, the police.

6 Q. In your previous statement to the Prosecutor, you have stated

7 that there was a haystack near the house, and that this was the first

8 thing set on fire. Am I understanding this well?

9 A. There was, yes, a haystack in front of the house, yes.

10 Q. The smoke from that haystack made it even more difficult for to

11 you recognise what was happening around the houses; is that correct?

12 A. Yes, yes.

13 Q. But you don't know who and when set this haystack on fire; is

14 that correct?

15 A. It was the Macedonian police that did that, because they came

16 there with Hermelin inside the yard. Don't tell me something else from

17 what really happened. They fired from the road. Please don't make me

18 nervous. Don't tell me untrue things. They came with their Hermelin

19 inside the yard.

20 Q. Mr. M-039, I'm not disputing your statement about the Hermelin

21 arriving. Probably you have seen it as you have testified. But what I'm

22 asking you is: Is it correct that you personally did not see who and how

23 set the haystack on fire; is that correct?

24 A. It was the police. Who else could have done that?

25 Q. But you personally did not see with your own eyes the moment when

1 someone set the haystack on fire?

2 A. No.

3 Q. On that day, the 12th of August, 2001, was a true summer day. It

4 was very warm in Ljuboten; is that correct?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And otherwise the summers in Skopje are very hot. The

7 temperature rises above 40 degrees of Centigrade; is that correct?

8 A. No. That day, it wasn't that hot. It was -- it wasn't more than

9 20, 25 degrees. It was even a cloudy sky. So don't tell me these

10 things. It wasn't over 20, let's say 25. Indeed, in the afternoon, it

11 even rained.

12 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] I would like to ask to move to

13 into private.

14 JUDGE PARKER: Private.

15 [Private session]

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3 [Open session]

4 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

5 Q. After this event where your family suffered such losses, you

6 didn't go to the police to tell your story there; is that correct?

7 A. No.

8 Q. You spoke with international organisations, you gave statements

9 to them, organisations such as OSCE, the International Committee of the

10 Red Cross and the investigators of the ICTY; is that correct?

11 A. Yes, that's correct.

12 Q. Neither you nor other citizens of Ljuboten wanted to be

13 interviewed by the Macedonian police or cooperate with it; is that

14 correct?

15 MR. SAXON: Objection, Your Honour.

16 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Saxon.

17 MR. SAXON: I don't know how this witness can speak about what

18 all the other citizens of Ljuboten wanted to do.

19 JUDGE PARKER: I would suggest the question should be confined to

20 this witness, Ms. Residovic. He may -- at the moment, he may be able to

21 tell us about others, but you haven't set the ground for that.

22 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Very well, Your Honours. Maybe

23 then we will present the relevant ground to arrive to this question.

24 Thank you.

25 Q. You did not agree with the police and the court coming to the

1 city, to the village to make an investigation on the site. You only

2 allowed the OSCE to enter?

3 A. We allowed them to come, even this gentleman who is sitting

4 behind. He was called on the phone and told to come and see what they --

5 what they had done to Ljuboten, what massacre they had committed. It was

6 Tuesday when they called him asking him to come and see, so don't tell me

7 lies here. And he knows very well who called him. We waited there for

8 two hours. We didn't bury the bodies of the dead people for two hours

9 waiting for them to come, and they never came. There were people from

10 the OSCE, from the Red Cross, and they saw that we were waiting there for

11 them to come.

12 Q. On the 14th of August, 2001, the bodies of the deceased were

13 buried in the clothes in which they were found; is that correct?

14 A. Yes, that is correct.

15 Q. Before the burial, you yourself did not perform a search on the

16 bodies of the deceased; is that correct?

17 A. No, we didn't because they were shooting all the time from that

18 position. Once we left the house, they began shooting. How could we do

19 that? We just made sure that the corpses were not eaten by some dogs or

20 some other animals.

21 Q. In April 2001 -- 2002 - Interpreter's correction - an exhumation

22 of the bodies was performed; is that correct?

23 A. That is correct.

24 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please, for counsel.

25 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

1 Q. Before that, in March 2002, there was a meeting in the village

2 with the representatives of the OSCE and the International Tribunal; is

3 that correct?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Before that, the efforts, the attempts of the court in Skopje to

6 perform an exhumation of the bodies were prevented by the villagers of

7 Ljuboten. Are you aware of this?

8 A. No, no. This is a lie. Enver Tahiri was there. We were

9 waiting. So, please, please, don't tell me lies. Enver Tahiri is there,

10 he's alive, he was -- he can tell you we were there gathered at the

11 school, but you refused. You said they are not from Ljuboten, they are

12 from Kosovo. So why are you lying here? Enough with lies, please.

13 Q. In the meeting that you had with the representatives of the OSCE

14 and the ICTY, you have just mentioned the investigator Howard Tucker.

15 You were there as well; is that correct?

16 A. Yes, yes, that is correct. I was there, too. And I have with me

17 the newspaper.

18 Q. And the representatives of the other families of the persons

19 killed were present in the meeting?

20 A. Yes. Yes, yes.

21 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] I will ask that the witness is

22 now shown the evidence 1D83 -- which is 1D8 now. Yes, could you please

23 rotate it? Yes, and could you zoom it in a bit, please?

24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, please, zoom it in.

25 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

1 Q. Under the items 5 and 6, is your name written there?

2 A. Yes, it is.

3 Q. Thank you.

4 MR. SAXON: Your Honour.

5 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Saxon.

6 MR. SAXON: It's my understanding that we are in public session.

7 JUDGE PARKER: That is correct.

8 MR. SAXON: Perhaps we need to go into private session or redact

9 a couple of recent comments.

10 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]

11 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I don't see that I

12 have mentioned anything. The documents are not shown to the public as

13 far as -- this is how I understood the Court's decision, and I think that

14 I have never mentioned anything that would disclose the identity of this

15 witness. I just said that he was present there.

16 MR. SAXON: That is correct. It's my mistake, Your Honour.

17 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you, Mr. Saxon. I was still struggling to

18 see the problem. There isn't one.

19 Carry on, please, Ms. Residovic.

20 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.

21 Q. Mr. M-039, these are the notes of the investigator Howard Tucker.

22 You yourself just mentioned that he was present in the meeting. Apart

23 from you and the other persons whose names you saw on the screen a moment

24 ago, the crisis committee of the village was represented in the meeting

25 by Kenan Saliu, Hisni Sadri, Nadri Musliu?

1 A. Hisni Versali [as interpreted], and I don't remember the other.

2 Q. In the fourth paragraph from the top in the English, it says:

3 "Persons representing the crisis committee of Ljuboten are:

4 Kenan Saliu, who is the president of the crisis committee; Hisni Murseli,

5 secretary of the crisis committee; and Nadri Musliu, he is the head of

6 the village of Ljuboten."

7 So if this refreshed your memory about the persons present, could

8 you tell me whether the ICTY investigator described correctly who were

9 the persons representing the village in that meeting?

10 A. Maybe. Maybe he was. I know that Hisni was there. The others

11 may have been there, too, but I just don't remember. Maybe they were in

12 their relevant capacities.

13 Q. On the bottom of this page, you see that there were the persons

14 representing the OSCE, their names are written here, and the ICTY was

15 represented by Howard Tucker, investigator, and Sydilik that is the

16 operational officer who was stationed at the ICTY office in Skopje. You

17 remember that they were present in the meeting as well. Is that correct?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. At the top of the document, it is written that the meeting took

20 place on the 8th of March, 2002, at the school in Ljuboten; is that

21 correct?

22 A. I don't remember the date, but it was in the school, yes.

23 Q. Thank you.

24 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] I would ask now that the second

25 page of this document is shown, 1D9.

1 Q. I would put it to you, Mr. M-039, I would read the last paragraph

2 where it is stated [In English] by the spokesperson of the crisis

3 committee, Mr. Saliu Kenan, about the involvement of the Republic of

4 Macedonia agency:

5 "Feelings were obviously running high, and there was talk of

6 non-cooperation by the villagers. However, after further discussion,

7 they all agreed their support for the investigation."

8 [Interpretation] Did the investigator correctly describe what you

9 were saying then at the meeting and what was pointed out by your

10 representative, Mr. Saliu Kenan?

11 A. This, I don't know. I really don't remember.

12 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Could page 3 of this document be

13 displayed now, please, that is of 1D9?

14 Q. In the fourth paragraph from the bottom, you see some words in

15 bold and that is the conclusion of the investigator after this meeting

16 where it says: "[In English] [Previous translation continues] ...

17 mistrust of anything Macedonian."

18 [Interpretation] Is it correct that all of you present there

19 displayed this huge mistrust towards everything Macedonian?

20 A. Yes, that's correct. And I still don't trust them and I will

21 never trust them. This is the truth. What they did to us, nobody in the

22 whole world could do. How can I trust him? Tell me, how can I trust

23 him? Never.

24 Q. Thank you.

25 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Could we now move into private

1 session, please?

2 JUDGE PARKER: Private.

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24 [Open session]

25 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're in open session.

1 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation].

2 Q. Mr. M-039, on the 14th of August, 2001, you were present when the

3 persons who had been killed in Ljuboten were buried; right?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. On that day, you came to the village with the representatives of

6 the OSCE; is that right?

7 A. Yes, the OSCE members came to my house.

8 Q. Actually, you came from Skopje with the representatives of the

9 OSCE; right?

10 A. No.

11 Q. If I were to say to you, Mr. M-039, that on the 12th you were not

12 in the village but that you came on the 14th; would that be correct?

13 A. I was at home on the 10th of August.

14 Q. But not on the 12th?

15 A. I don't understand what you're saying. Can you please repeat

16 your question? On the 12th of August, I was at home with my brothers.

17 Q. Thank you.

18 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I have concluded my

19 examination of this witness.

20 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you very much, Ms. Residovic.

21 Mr. Apostolski.

22 MR. APOSTOLSKI: Good day, Your Honours. Today I will question

23 the witness, Mr. M-039.

24 Cross-examination by Mr. Apostolski:

25 Q. [Interpretation] Mr. M-039, My name is Antonio Apostolski. I am

1 the lead counsel for Mr. Johan Tarculovski. With me is my colleague,

2 co-counsel Jasmina Zivkovic. I will ask you questions about the events

3 in village of Ljuboten in the period between 10th and 12th of August,

4 2001?

5 My learned colleague from the Prosecution presented the basic

6 data about you, where you were born, when, where you live and what was

7 the education that you completed.

8 In 1985, you served the conscription military service in Banja

9 Luka; is that correct?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. Which military branch was that?

12 A. Tank unit.

13 Q. You have training on how to handle infantry weapons?

14 A. No.

15 Q. At 8.00 on the 12th of August, 2001, the shelling of the village

16 started; is that correct?

17 A. Yes.

18 MR. APOSTOLSKI: [Interpretation] Could we move into a private

19 session for a moment, Your Honours?

20 JUDGE PARKER: Private.

21 [Private session]

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6 MR. APOSTOLSKI: [Interpretation]

7 Q. Since the shelling gained in strength, you decided to look for a

8 new shelter; is that correct?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. You went to the house the Xhelal Bajrami; is that correct?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. It was just Xhelal who was in his house when you arrived; is that

13 correct?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. You stayed at Xhelal's house until 1400 hours; is that correct?

16 A. Approximately, yes.

17 Q. All right. Thank you. Then you heard shooting coming from the

18 house of Adem Ametovski; is that correct?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Which frightened you and then you left the house and went to the

21 house of Bajram Jashari. You left the house of Xhelal Bajrami, I

22 apologise. I apologise again.

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. You and Qani Jashari went a few metres down by the road.

25 A. No. Only my father did so. I set off in the direction of my

1 house, but I wasn't able to get there, so I remained where I was.

2 Q. You were running uphill, up the sand road towards the house of

3 Qani Jashari; is that correct?

4 A. No, towards my house. That's where I wanted to go.

5 MR. APOSTOLSKI: [Interpretation] Could we move into a private

6 session?

7 JUDGE PARKER: Private.

8 [Private session]

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10 [Open session]

11 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're in open session.

12 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you. We will adjourn now then,

13 Mr. Apostolski, and resume again at 11.00.

14 --- Recess taken at 10.28 a.m.

15 --- On resuming at 11.05 a.m.

16 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Apostolski.

17 MR. APOSTOLSKI: [Interpretation] Your Honours, may we move into

18 private session.

19 JUDGE PARKER: Private.

20 [Private session]

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16 [Open session]

17 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're in open session.

18 MR. APOSTOLSKI: [Interpretation]

19 Q. Witness M-039, is that the location where you saw the Hermelin

20 arriving from?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Can you tell me what was the colour of the Hermelin?

23 A. I don't know how to put it. I wasn't next to it to look

24 carefully at the colour. I only know that it stopped there and started

25 to fire in the direction of Qani Jashari's house. I wasn't a journalist

1 or an expert to look at it. I could hardly survive, you know.

2 Q. After that, you saw three or four bottles being thrown from the

3 location of the Hermelin to the house, and it was set on fire; is that

4 correct?

5 A. No, no. The Hermelin entered inside the yard, at the house of

6 Qani Jashari. And then it was when they threw the bottles.

7 Q. So you saw three or four bottles being thrown onto the house,

8 petrol bottles?

9 A. I saw them hurling the bottles, but I cannot tell you whether

10 they were bottles or bombs. Probably it was petrol, because the house

11 was immediately set on fire.

12 Q. Does it mean that you did not see with your own eyes the bottles

13 being thrown?

14 A. While the Hermelin entered the yard, they were throwing these

15 things, and they were shelling and firing.

16 Q. After the house was set on fire, you saw Kadri Jashari,

17 Bajram Jashari and Xhelal Bajrami leaving the house through the window;

18 is that correct?

19 A. Yes, that is correct. But there was a lot of smoke rising from

20 this haystack that was burning. They left from the window, and then I

21 saw them no more.

22 Q. So despite the smoke, you saw them leaving the house through the

23 window?

24 A. Yes. Then after that, because of the flames and the smoke, I saw

25 them no more.

1 Q. So if anyone were to state that first they left the house, and

2 only after that the house was set on fire, then the person would not be

3 speaking the truth?

4 A. No. First the haystack was set on fire, burned the house, and

5 then they left through the window. The house was in the course of being

6 burned. The smoke was rising out of it, and then they left through the

7 window.

8 MR. APOSTOLSKI: [Interpretation] Can we move into private

9 session, briefly?

10 JUDGE PARKER: Private.

11 [Private session]

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2 [Open session]

3 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're in open session.

4 MR. APOSTOLSKI: [Interpretation]

5 Q. After the security forces left, you climbed out of your shelter;

6 is that correct?

7 A. Yes, that's correct. (redacted)

8 (redacted)

9 (redacted)

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11 (redacted)

12 A. Yes.

13 MR. APOSTOLSKI: [Interpretation] Your Honours, (redacted)

14 (redacted), is that correct, or should it be

15 redacted?

16 JUDGE PARKER: We will redact it.

17 MR. APOSTOLSKI: [Interpretation]

18 Q. You couldn't walk to the bodies because fire was coming in your

19 direction; is that correct?

20 A. That's correct.

21 Q. Only after it became dark, you dared go out and find the bodies;

22 is that correct?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. When you were questioned by my distinguished colleague from the

25 OTP and when you showed the pictures of the bodies of Kadri Jashari,

1 Bajram Jashari and Xhelal Bajrami, you said that you have written in your

2 own handwriting that the bodies were not moved from the position where

3 they were killed; is that correct?

4 A. Yes. Yes, everything happened as I described it, until Tuesday

5 when they came to bury them.

6 MR. APOSTOLSKI: [Interpretation] Can we move into private

7 session, briefly?

8 JUDGE PARKER: Private.

9 [Private session]

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15 [Open session]

16 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're in open session.

17 MR. APOSTOLSKI: [Interpretation]

18 Q. Do you know Shefajet Bajrami?

19 A. Yes, he's a cousin of mine.

20 Q. Is it true that his nickname is Shef?

21 A. No. His name is Shefajet Bajrami.

22 Q. Is it correct that he is a NLA member?

23 A. I don't know that. Maybe he is, but I don't know it.

24 MR. APOSTOLSKI: [Interpretation] Could we now move into a private

25 session briefly?

1 JUDGE PARKER: Private.

2 [Private session]

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5 [Open session]

6 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're in open session.

7 MR. APOSTOLSKI: [Interpretation].

8 Q. Do you know Baki Halimi?

9 A. I know Baki Halimi as a fellow villager -- as a teacher. He used

10 to be my history and geography teacher. This is how I know him, as a

11 teacher and a fellow villager.

12 MR. APOSTOLSKI: [Interpretation] Could the witness be shown a

13 photograph, N005-7605?

14 Could we just zoom in on to the left part of the photograph?

15 Thank you very much. That's it, that's fine.

16 Q. Do you see the photograph in front of you on the screen?

17 A. Yes, I do.

18 Q. Could you mark with number 1 the house of Baki Halimi?

19 A. [Marks].

20 Q. Could you mark with number 2 -- could you mark the cemetery?

21 A. [Marks].

22 MR. APOSTOLSKI: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I'd also like to

23 see marked the house of his father, but I don't know whether it is

24 outside of the photograph.

25 Q. Otherwise, please mark with number 2 the house of your father.

1 A. [Marks].

2 Q. Could you please mark it with number 3?

3 A. [Marks].

4 Q. Thank you.

5 MR. APOSTOLSKI: [Interpretation] Your Honours, could we tender

6 this photograph in evidence?

7 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.

8 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit 2D18, Your Honours.

9 MR. APOSTOLSKI: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I have no further

10 questions for the witness, M-039.

11 Q. I thank you.

12 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you, Mr. Apostolski.

13 Mr. Saxon.

14 MR. SAXON: Your Honours, can we show the exhibit that I believe

15 was marked as 2D17?

16 Re-examination by Mr. Saxon:

17 Q. Witness, can you take a look at this photograph, please?

18 Slightly above the arrow where we see the letters M39, you made a mark

19 indicating the spot where you saw the Hermelin vehicle on that Sunday,

20 August 12th; do you see that?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. And subsequently, you explained to my learned colleague that you

23 saw the Hermelin vehicle enter the yard of the home of Qani Jashari; do

24 you recall that?

25 A. The Hermelin first was here, at point number 2, and then it

1 continued upwards.

2 Q. Perhaps with the usher's assistance could I ask you,

3 Witness M-039, to take the pen on the computer, that blue -- perhaps the

4 same blue pen, and draw the route that the Hermelin vehicle took.

5 A. [Marks].

6 Q. No, Witness -- Witness, I don't think you understood me. I'm

7 very sorry. My question wasn't clear. If you could erase that blue line

8 that you just drew, please.

9 My question should have been: Can you draw the route that the

10 Hermelin vehicle took from that point number 2 up into the yard of the

11 house?

12 A. [Marks].

13 Q. All right. Thank you.

14 After that Hermelin vehicle went up -- up that road into the yard

15 of the house, before the time that the house and the haystack caught on

16 fire, did you see anyone else go up that road?

17 A. No.

18 Q. Okay.

19 MR. SAXON: Your Honour, can we tender the photograph as it is

20 now marked, please, as a Prosecution Exhibit.

21 JUDGE PARKER: Would you like to have a number 3 in blue against

22 the markings?

23 MR. SAXON: That would probably be an asset. Yes, Your Honour.

24 Q. If the witness could be directed to draw the number 3 below the

25 broken line that he has just drawn.

1 A. [Marks].

2 Q. All right.

3 MR. SAXON: If that could be tendered, Your Honours, please.

4 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.

5 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit P204, Your Honours.

6 MR. SAXON:

7 Q. Witness, if we can move on to another topic briefly. You

8 mentioned to my distinguished colleague that someone had called, I

9 believe, Mr. Boskoski to come to Ljuboten. Can you help us, please, if

10 you know, who called Mr. Boskoski to come to Ljuboten?

11 A. On that Tuesday, when we were getting ready to bury my brothers,

12 the representatives of the Red Cross and of the OSCE were present, as

13 well as Mr. Fatmir Etemi. He called them to come and confirm that these

14 were civilians who were massacred. They told him, Just wait for us,

15 we'll be there in two hours. Two hours past. Three hours past. They

16 never came. Then Mr. Fatmir Etemi and the Red Cross representatives gave

17 the green light for the burial to take place.

18 Q. Witness, you say that Fatmir Etemi called them to come and

19 confirm, and then you --

20 A. Yes, but I don't know who he spoke with, who precisely he spoke

21 with.

22 Q. Okay. Do you know what institution Fatmir Etemi called, if he

23 called an institution?

24 A. As far as I know, he called the Macedonian institutions to come

25 and verify that those massacred were civilians. This is what I know.

1 Q. Did Fatmir Etemi give you this information, or did you learn it

2 from someone else?

3 A. We were just nearby.

4 Q. What -- well, you didn't answer my question. Did Fatmir Etemi

5 tell you about his telephone calls, or did you learn about them from

6 someone else?

7 A. Fatmir Etemi was precisely here when he made that phone call. I

8 don't know who he spoke with precisely, but he then turned to us and

9 said, They are not coming to see the victims.

10 Q. All right. My learned colleague read to you part of a paragraph

11 from a statement given by --

12 MR. SAXON: Can we move into private session briefly, Your

13 Honour?

14 JUDGE PARKER: Private.

15 [Private session]

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11 [Open session]

12 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're in open session.

13 JUDGE PARKER: You will be pleased to know, sir, that that

14 completes the questions for you. The Chamber would thank you for coming

15 to The Hague and for the assistance that you have been able to give, and

16 you may now, of course, return to your home.

17 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you very much, Your Honours,

18 for presenting us with the opportunity to come here and tell the truth.

19 May you live thousands of years. Thank you very much.

20 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you, indeed. The court officer will assist

21 you out now.

22 [The witness withdrew]

23 [Trial Chamber confers]

24 JUDGE PARKER: I understand, Mr. Saxon, the next witness has

25 effectively full protection measures. That requires that we break for 20

1 minutes to enable the technical equipment to be set up.

2 Given the time, I think the obvious course to take is to have our

3 normal second break now and resume at 25 minutes to 1.00 and then have an

4 hour and ten minutes with the next witness.

5 We will do that.

6 --- Recess taken at 12.06 a.m.

7 [The witness entered court]

8 --- On resuming at 12.38 p.m.

9 JUDGE PARKER: Good afternoon, sir. Would you please read aloud

10 the affirmation that is now shown to you.

11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will

12 speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

13 WITNESS: WITNESS M-088

14 [Witness answered through interpreter]

15 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you. Please sit down.

16 Now, Mr. Saxon, has some questions for you.

17 Yes, Mr. Saxon.

18 MR. SAXON: Very sorry, Your Honour, for the confusion. With

19 great respect, the next witness will be led by Ms. Meritxell Regue.

20 JUDGE PARKER: Indeed.

21 Examination by Ms. Regue:

22 MS. REGUE: Good afternoon, Your Honours. Good afternoon,

23 Witness. If I could have, please, the usher's assistance in providing

24 the witness with the identification paper.

25 Q. Witness, could you please read the document that is being

1 provided to you and let us know whether the information is correct? And

2 please don't read it aloud.

3 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please, for the witness.

4 MS. REGUE:

5 Q. Witness, can you please repeat --

6 A. Yes. Yes, the information is correct.

7 Q. Thanks.

8 MS. REGUE: Your Honours, after my learned friends have seen the

9 document, and if there are no objections, I would like to tender the

10 document.

11 Could that be tendered under seal, Your Honour?

12 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received under seal.

13 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit P205, under seal, Your Honours.

14 MS. REGUE:

15 Q. Witness, you have been granted protective measures of face and

16 voice distortion. Therefore, your face cannot be seen outside this

17 courtroom, neither your real voice can be heard. We will be referring to

18 you as Witness 88 or Witness. Do you understand that?

19 A. Yes.

20 MS. REGUE: Your Honours, I will start providing a brief summary

21 of this witness's evidence.

22 This witness is an ethnic Albanian and resident in Ljuboten. He

23 was a truck driver during the relevant time period of the indictment.

24 Between 10 and 12 August, 2001, the witness heard sporadic gun-fire and

25 shelling in Ljuboten. The witness states that there was no NLA presence

1 in the village during that weekend. He observed how the police entered

2 Ljuboten in the morning of the 12th of August, 2001. And afterwards,

3 houses were set on fire.

4 Also, on Sunday, the 12th, he and his family were informed that

5 police were mistreating people, especially youngsters in the checkpoints,

6 and he and his cousin were the only singles. They were advised to run

7 away and hide somewhere. They decided to go up hill, and for that they

8 had to pass by the Jashari's house. There, they met Xhelal Bajrami,

9 Kadri and Bajram Jashari, who call them inside. He saw no weapons in the

10 house.

11 They left the house when they heard an APC and police outside the

12 courtyard. The witness was under fire when he was running away from the

13 police. Finally, he was able to seek shelter in the woods. After two

14 days, he went to a monastery where NLA people were deployed. He joined

15 the NLA for a short period of time. He was told that the NLA commander

16 had prevented any NLA intervention in Ljuboten during that weekend.

17 Q. Witness, what I just read is an accurate summary of your

18 statement?

19 A. Yes. But at the end, when you said that commander in Ljuboten,

20 that was not right. Refer to those in Matejce.

21 Q. Okay. So I will refer to the NLA in Matejce. Matejce monastery?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Thanks. Witness, do you recall providing information to the

24 Office of the Prosecutor on June 2004?

25 A. Yes.

1 Q. Do you recall meeting with a registrar, on August 2006, who

2 certified, put a stamp on your statement?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Did you have the opportunity to read the statement in your native

5 language back then?

6 A. Yes, I did.

7 Q. Did you have the opportunity to introduce corrections?

8 A. Yes, I did.

9 Q. Did you introduce any corrections back in 2006?

10 A. Yes, I made one correction. In the case of a T-shirt, white, of

11 white colour and light yellow. Green, in fact.

12 Q. Today, do you agree with the correction that you made back in

13 2006?

14 A. No. No.

15 Q. What would you like to state instead?

16 A. I would like to state that in the light green T-shirt, I made a

17 mistake. Because I saw some photos in 2006 shown to me by the OTP

18 investigator, and I had on a kind of purple, dark purple colour T-shirt.

19 Q. And what do you think that you made the mistake back in 2006?

20 A. Before I made this correction in 2006, I had seen some

21 photographs of the victims of the brothers Kadri and -- Jashari and

22 Xhelal, and I was very sad, and I made this mistake.

23 Q. Have you had an opportunity to read your statement before coming

24 here to testify?

25 A. Yes.

1 Q. Are you satisfied that the statement that you read was correct

2 and accurate, including the correction that you just indicated?

3 A. Yes, now it's correct.

4 MS. REGUE: Your Honours, I will seek to tender this witness's

5 statement under seal.

6 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.

7 THE REGISTRAR: Statement bearing ERN N002-7224-1 will be

8 admitted as Exhibit P 206, under seal, Your Honours.

9 MS. REGUE: Your Honours, could we move briefly to private

10 session, please?

11 JUDGE PARKER: Private.

12 [Private session]

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1 [Open session]

2 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're in open session.

3 MS. REGUE: Could I please ask not to display the next photo that

4 I'm going to show to the witness outside this courtroom?

5 And I will call photo N005-7603. For Your Honours and my learned

6 friends, this is the photo depicted in court binder page 5.

7 Thanks. That's okay.

8 Q. Witness, what do you see in this photo?

9 A. I see a view of Ljuboten village.

10 Q. Thanks. In the prior photo, you just mark and indicate the area

11 where the police enter the village on Sunday morning. Could you please

12 take the pen --

13 MS. REGUE: If we could have the usher's assistance.

14 Q. -- and draw a circle in the area where you saw the police

15 entering the village on Sunday, the 12th? If you can see that in the

16 map?

17 A. Yes, it is this area here.

18 Q. Could you please write number 1 there?

19 A. [Marks].

20 Q. Do you recall something extraordinary happening after the police

21 enter the village that day?

22 A. Yes, in this part, there was smoke.

23 Q. Could you also draw a circle there and write number 2?

24 A. Yes. It is this part here.

25 Q. Does this area of Ljuboten has any particular name?

1 A. Yes. It's called Mahalla e Nazallareve.

2 Q. Do you know any family living in this area?

3 A. Yes, Jusufi family lives there.

4 MS. REGUE: Now, I would actually like if we could move the photo

5 a bit to the right? Okay.

6 JUDGE PARKER: We lose the image, that is the markings, if we

7 move. So it may be necessary to -- if there is nothing more to be marked

8 on this photo, to receive this photo and then move the image.

9 MS. REGUE: Yes, Your Honours. We can do that.

10 Sorry, I would like to tender with the markings, my apologies.

11 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.

12 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit P208, Your Honours.

13 [Trial Chamber confers]

14 MS. REGUE: Could I have displayed the same ERN -- the same photo

15 again, without markings? Thanks.

16 Could I move briefly into private session, Your Honour?

17 JUDGE PARKER: Private.

18 [Private session]

19 (redacted)

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12 [Open session]

13 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're in open session.

14 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.

15 MS. REGUE:

16 Q. Witness, are you able to see the house of your relative in the

17 photo?

18 A. No.

19 MS. REGUE: Could we move the photo a bit to the right, please?

20 Q. And now, Witness?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Could you please take again the magic pen and draw a circle in

23 the house of your uncle?

24 A. [Marks].

25 Q. Witness, now we have sort of lost a bit the picture, but we saw

1 that there is an important distance between this house and the area where

2 you saw the police entering the village. How come you were able to see

3 the police?

4 A. From here, it's on the same aerial plane. That's why I could see

5 the police, and they were wearing black uniforms, uniforms in dark

6 colour.

7 Q. Thanks.

8 MS. REGUE: Your Honours, I would like to tender this photo into

9 evidence.

10 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.

11 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit P209, Your Honours.

12 MS. REGUE: Now, Your Honours, I like to call 65 ter 199.22. For

13 Your Honours and my learned friends, it is page 9 of the court binder,

14 photo A. And it's okay if we display the photo outside this courtroom.

15 That is no problem.

16 If we could have 65 ter 199.2 -- sorry, it's coming up. Thanks.

17 This is okay.

18 Q. Witness, do you recognise this photo?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. What does it show?

21 A. It shows part of the village, another part of the village.

22 Q. Do you know the name of this part of the village?

23 A. Yes. Mahalla of Nazallareve -- standing for neighbourhood.

24 Q. Based on your prior evidence, is this the neighbourhood that you

25 saw the smoke coming out after the police enter the village on Sunday,

1 the 12th?

2 A. Yes, this is the place.

3 Q. And also based on your prior evidence, is this the neighbourhood

4 where the Jusufis are living or were living?

5 A. Yes. This is the Mahalla where Jusufi family live.

6 Q. Are you able to see the Jusufis' house in this photo?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Could you please, if we take the pen, and if you could please

9 draw a circle around the house of Rami Jusufi?

10 A. Yes, this is the part. The entire family lived here, or lives

11 here.

12 Q. Are you able to identify which is the house of Rami Jusufi?

13 A. Yes. It must be here somewhere.

14 Q. Thanks.

15 MS. REGUE: Your Honours, I will seek to tender this photo into

16 evidence.

17 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.

18 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit P210, Your Honours.

19 MS. REGUE: Your Honours, I would like to call 65 ter document

20 199.15. It's the page 12, photo B of the court binder.

21 This is not the right photo, actually. The ERN is N004-4698.

22 THE REGISTRAR: This is 199.15, 65 ter.

23 MS. REGUE: Okay. It seems to be a mistake between the

24 correlation. We have a hard copy to place on the ELMO, if there is a

25 problem.

1 THE REGISTRAR: The photograph you've given reference is 65 ter

2 199.10.

3 MS. REGUE: Thanks.

4 Q. Witness, can you tell us what do you see in this photo?

5 A. Yes. I see Qani Jashari's house.

6 Q. Were you at this house at any time on the weekend of 10 to 12 of

7 August 2001?

8 A. Yes, I was, on the 12th of August, 2001.

9 Q. With whom were you in this house?

10 (redacted)

11 (redacted)

12 Q. How long did you stay in the house?

13 A. I stayed for some five minutes.

14 Q. Did you have to leave the house at some point?

15 A. Yes, I did.

16 Q. Why?

17 A. Because I heard a noise coming from the street. It was the noise

18 of an armoured car, and then I left. There were shots and insults in

19 Macedonian, and then I was obliged to leave this house.

20 Q. How did you leave the house?

21 A. I left through the window.

22 Q. And where did you go afterwards?

23 A. I went up to the place where there was tobacco.

24 Q. Sorry, we can see, actually, in the house two windows. Which

25 window did you use?

1 A. The place which is kind of on the ground.

2 Q. Thanks. After reaching the tobacco field, what did you do?

3 A. I stayed there for a while, a little while. I saw two or three

4 policemen and the armoured car. The policemen were wearing black

5 uniforms and wearing black masks.

6 Q. And what did you do afterwards?

7 A. Then I left this place, too.

8 Q. Where did you go?

9 A. I went to the forest.

10 Q. You just mentioned that you saw two policemen. From the noise

11 that you heard, did you think that there were two policemen?

12 A. I saw them with my own eyes from the tobacco field.

13 Q. But, Witness, my question is: From the noise, did you think

14 there were two policemen only?

15 A. No, from the noise, they were more. But I managed to see only

16 two or three.

17 Q. Witness, please, could you please take the pen again, if I could

18 have the usher's assistance, and if you could draw a circle in the window

19 where you jump off and write number 1, please?

20 A. This is the window here, number 1.

21 Q. Could you also please draw a circle in the tobacco field where

22 you hided and write number 2, please?

23 A. Yes, it is this place here.

24 Q. And could you please indicate with a cross the place where you

25 saw the APC and write number 3?

1 A. Yes. It is this place here.

2 MS. REGUE: Your Honours, I will seek to tender this photo into

3 evidence.

4 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.

5 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit P211, Your Honours.

6 MS. REGUE: Could I have, please, 65 ter 199.12, bearing ERN

7 N004-4842? It's the photo depicted in the page 12 of the court binder,

8 photo D.

9 Thanks.

10 Q. Witness, do you recognise this photo?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. What does it show?

13 A. The house of Qani Jashari, and the window from which I left.

14 Q. Thanks.

15 MS. REGUE: And well, in order to speed up --

16 Q. Witness, could you also take the pen - sorry - and draw a circle

17 in the window and mark it with number 1?

18 A. Yes. It is this here.

19 Q. And also a circle in the tobacco field and write number 2,

20 please.

21 A. This is the place.

22 Q. Could you please draw a line indicating the route that you took

23 when you ran away?

24 A. This is the route.

25 Q. Could you please write number 3 in the forest?

1 A. [Marks].

2 Q. Thanks.

3 MS. REGUE: Your Honours, I seek to tender this photo into

4 evidence.

5 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.

6 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit P212, Your Honours.

7 MS. REGUE: Finally, Your Honours, could I have 65 ter 615?

8 Sorry, we won't be needing that pen anymore. Thanks.

9 This is not the photo, actually. We have a hard copy as well.

10 Q. Witness, do you recognise what is depicted in this photo?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Can you describe it, please?

13 A. Yes. This depicts the tobacco field, the location where I spent

14 a short time. And above, you can see the mountain.

15 Q. Does this tobacco field looks like when you were there in August

16 2001?

17 A. Yes. It looked like this exactly.

18 MS. REGUE: Your Honours, I will seek to tender this document

19 into evidence.

20 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.

21 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit P213, Your Honours.

22 MS. REGUE: Your Honours, I have no further questions.

23 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you very much.

24 Ms. Residovic.

25 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you very much Your Honour.

1 Cross-examination by Ms. Residovic:

2 Q. [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Mr. M-088. I am

3 Edina Residovic, and together with my colleague, Mr. Guenael Mettraux, I

4 defend Mr. Ljube Boskoski.

5 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Could we please briefly go into

6 private session.

7 JUDGE PARKER: Private.

8 [Private session]

9 (redacted)

10 (redacted)

11 (redacted)

12 (redacted)

13 (redacted)

14 (redacted)

15 (redacted)

16 (redacted)

17 (redacted)

18 (redacted)

19 (redacted)

20 (redacted)

21 (redacted)

22 (redacted)

23 (redacted)

24 (redacted)

25 (redacted)

1 (redacted)

2 (redacted)

3 (redacted)

4 (redacted)

5 (redacted)

6 (redacted)

7 (redacted)

8 [Open session]

9 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're in open session.

10 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

11 Q. As a citizen of Macedonia, you were aware of what happened in

12 Kosovo, especially during the time of the open conflict between the

13 Albanian population and the Yugoslav army; isn't that right?

14 A. If you could repeat your question, because I didn't understand

15 it.

16 Q. Certainly. Thank you. I'll put it in simpler terms.

17 You, like all other citizens of Macedonia, followed what was

18 going on in Kosovo at the time when the Albanian people of Kosovo fought

19 against the Yugoslav Army, and when NATO had to take measures in order to

20 protect the Albanian people in Kosovo. Isn't that right?

21 JUDGE PARKER: Ms. Regue.

22 MS. REGUE: Yes, Your Honours. From the way that I see the

23 formulation of the question, my learned colleague mentioned the Albanian

24 people of Kosovo. This is quite a boarder term.

25 JUDGE PARKER: I'm not quite sure what your point of concern it.

1 MS. REGUE: Your Honours -- well, from my understanding from the

2 question, it seems that all the Albanian population of Kosovo took part

3 in the fight. And I'm not sure whether this is quite right.

4 JUDGE PARKER: It clearly isn't, but I don't think it was meant

5 to be. It's a general description of a conflict in which, on the one

6 hand, there were the Albanian people of Kosovo, and, on the other hand,

7 there was the Yugoslav Army. I don't think it's too misleading.

8 Have I got your understanding correctly, Ms. Residovic?

9 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] I think that you understood me

10 well. I believe that the witness understood me, too. Because it wasn't

11 only in Macedonia, but throughout the former Yugoslavia people follow

12 what was going on with attention.

13 Q. Did you know about what was going on, Mr. M-088?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Also, as a citizen of Macedonia, you knew that in that year,

16 1999, the Republic of Macedonia took in over 300.000 Albanians from

17 Kosovo who were expelled from their homes. Do you know about that?

18 A. Yes, I do. But I'm not here to testify about the refugees who

19 fled Kosova. I'm here to testify about the 2001 event that occurred in

20 Ljuboten.

21 Q. Mr. M-088, I would kindly ask you to answer every one of my

22 questions that you can.

23 Since you previously answered my question, I'm sure that you knew

24 that at that time the Republic of Macedonia and its authorities were

25 given ample recognition by the international community and the Albanian

1 population of Kosovo for the efforts made by Macedonia to take in the

2 refugees from Kosovo. Do you know about that?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. In 2001, in the Republic of Macedonia, various extremists and

5 terrorist groups of Albanians started attacks against police stations,

6 police patrols and the civilian population. As a citizen of Macedonia,

7 did you know about that?

8 A. No.

9 Q. Not far away from your village is Aracinovo, where Albanian

10 groups attacked the authorities and the people who lived there, and this

11 was one of the first attacks that took place; is that right?

12 A. I don't know.

13 Q. As a citizen of Macedonia, I'm sure that you know that from March

14 until the month of July, thousands of Macedonians were expelled from

15 their homes in the areas where these terrorist groups were operating. Do

16 you know about that?

17 A. No, I don't know about that.

18 Q. I thought we are in private session; I thought we weren't. A few

19 moments ago, you said that as a truck driver, you crossed the border with

20 Kosovo almost every day. I'm sure that as you crossed the border in the

21 areas of Kumanovo and Tetovo, you could notice intensive conflicts in

22 which these terrorist groups were attacking the areas of Kumanovo and

23 Tetovo. Could you see that? Could you notice that?

24 A. I did not cross the border from Kumanovo and Tetovo area. I

25 transported the watermelons from Strumnica, and I usually crossed at the

1 Blace border crossing, not at Kumanovo or Tetovo border crossings.

2 MS. REGUE: Sorry, I think we're in open session.

3 JUDGE PARKER: Well, we are in open session. That's what I

4 understood Ms. Residovic to understand in the end. She was not certain.

5 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] I think that what the witness has

6 been saying so far could not jeopardise his identity in any way.

7 Q. However, sometimes you'd cross the border near Stenkovac; isn't

8 that right?

9 A. Yes, it is near Blace border crossing.

10 Q. Thank you. You did not go to the closer border crossings

11 precisely because of these attacks and the very difficult security

12 situation in the area; isn't that right?

13 A. No, that's not right. This is not true. Because I did not have

14 to use that area.

15 Q. Mr. M-088, at the time, did you learn of information provided

16 by KFOR from Kosovo, indicating that various terrorist groups were

17 crossing the border and smuggling weapons into Macedonia?

18 A. Do you expect me to answer this question?

19 Q. Yes, yes. Did you have such information?

20 A. No.

21 Q. Maybe we will go back to the questions that you are able to

22 answer, because you have certain knowledge of that.

23 Your village, Ljuboten, is on the slopes of Skopska Crna Gore;

24 isn't that right?

25 A. Yes, that's correct.

1 Q. Because of its position on these slopes, it dominates the Skopje

2 valley; isn't that right?

3 A. Yes. It is actually in the Skopje valley. On the area of

4 Skopska Crna Gore.

5 Q. Because of its geographic location, you will certainly agree with

6 me if I say it has an exceptionally important strategic significance for

7 the defence of the city of Skopje. Is that correct?

8 A. I didn't understand your question. Can you repeat it, please?

9 Q. Is it correct that Ljuboten, because of its specific geographic

10 location, was of exceptional strategic importance for the defence of the

11 city of Skopje?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Is it also correct that the importance was even more significant

14 because the old mountain road above Ljuboten, known among the people as

15 Sultan's or Murat's Road, connected the areas of Kumanovo, the area of

16 Kumanovo and the border to Kosovo. Is that correct?

17 A. No, I have never heard of this road.

18 Q. But you surely know that two or three months before the events in

19 August, the army of the Republic of Macedonia expanded the area of

20 control of border to the depth of 20 kilometres and stationed its

21 positions also in the area around the village of Ljuboten. Is that

22 correct?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. But could you, Mr. M-088, agree with me, that Ljuboten was

25 important also for the members of the NLA, since it was in the vicinity

1 of Skopje, and since it was important as a logistics base or support for

2 the forces in the regions of Kumanovo and Matejce?

3 A. No, I don't agree with you on this.

4 Q. All right. Tell me now, do you know that, as early as in the

5 time of the first attacks of NLA against the governmental forces, so to

6 say, in Aracinovo, some young men from Ljuboten actively joined the units

7 of NLA?

8 A. No, I don't know if Ljuboten people participated in Aracin?

9 Q. My question is, do you know that immediately after the events in

10 Aracinovo, a number of young people from Ljuboten joined NLA?

11 A. Yes, for some of them, I could say that they were, but not in

12 Aracin.

13 Q. You know a person by the name of Zendeli Islam. Do not say if

14 you have any personal relationship with him, just say whether you know

15 him or not?

16 A. I know him.

17 Q. If he were to say that he personally joined NLA before the attack

18 in Aracinovo, you would agree that he were a member of the NLA from

19 Ljuboten?

20 A. No.

21 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] I will ask now that the witness

22 is shown 65 ter number 1D94, page 1D1316, item 2, Macedonian 1D1323, also

23 item 2. I would like to ask the court that the documents shown to this

24 witness are not published to the general public.

25 Q. Mr. M-088, is this the data of the person that we just discussed,

1 Zendeli Islam, a son of Ifran, is that the person that I asked you about?

2 A. Yes.

3 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Now, I would like to ask that the

4 page 1D1316.2, while Macedonian is 1D1323. No, I apologise. 1317.2.

5 Let me see if I give you the correct number of the Macedonian page.

6 Again, .2. Yes.

7 Q. Do you see here in item 2 that Islam Zendeli says that he joined

8 NLA three or four days before the Macedonian forces performed the

9 offensive to Aracinovo, and that was one or two months before the events

10 in Ljuboten, in June 2001?

11 Is this statement of Islam reminding you that he, as a villager

12 of Ljuboten, was a NLA member?

13 A. At that time, he was living in Skopje, and as I worked as a

14 driver, I was not aware of his whereabouts.

15 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Now, I would like to ask that the

16 witness is shown page 1D1318, paragraph 14; while the Macedonian is

17 1D1325, again paragraph 14.

18 Q. In his statement given to the investigators of the ICTY,

19 Islam Zendeli, as you can see written in this item, in this paragraph in

20 last sentence, he said that there were other people, maybe 25, 27, from

21 Ljuboten, in the ranks of NLA. He further then said when the event in

22 Ljuboten took place, they were in the area of Kumanovo.

23 My question is: Do you know that, in August 2001, there were at

24 least 25 to 27 NLA members from the village of Ljuboten?

25 A. No. I could not say that, because I don't know if there were

1 that many. So maybe it's better for him to explain his statement.

2 Personally I cannot say if there were 25 or 27 men from Ljuboten.

3 Q. Thank you.

4 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours ...

5 JUDGE PARKER: I think this is a convenient time, Ms. Residovic.

6 We must now finish for the day.

7 Sir, we have to stop our proceedings at this time. We resume

8 again tomorrow in the afternoon at 2.15, and if you could return in time

9 for that.

10 We will adjourn now.

11 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.46 p.m.,

12 to be reconvened on Tuesday, the 22nd day of May,

13 2007, at 2.15 p.m.

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