1 Monday, 27 August 2007
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 [The witness entered court]
5 --- Upon commencing at 2.15 p.m.
6 JUDGE PARKER: Good afternoon, sir. Would you please read aloud
7 the affirmation on the card that's given to you.
8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.
9 I solemnly declare that I will speak the truth, the whole truth,
10 and nothing but the truth.
11 WITNESS: WITNESS M-051
12 [Witness answered through interpreter]
13 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you. Please sit down.
14 Ms. Motoike.
15 Examination by Ms. Motoike:
16 MS. MOTOIKE: Good afternoon, Your Honours. Thank you.
17 Q. Good afternoon, witness?
18 MS. MOTOIKE: Could I please have the usher's assistance in
19 providing the witness with a document, please. It's bearing
20 ERN N006-4901.
21 Q. Witness, could you please take a look at that piece of paper
22 before you, and without saying the name out loud, please confirm that the
23 information contained on the piece of paper is correct?
24 A. It is correct.
25 MS. MOTOIKE: Your Honours, if the document could please be then
1 shown to my learned colleagues and if there is no objection, I would ask
2 to tender it under seal, please.
3 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received under seal.
4 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit P408, Your Honours.
5 MS. MOTOIKE: Thank you. And for the record, Your Honours, the
6 Prosecution has now called Witness M-051.
7 Q. Witness, you have been granted protective measures in the form of
8 the use of a pseudonym and face distortion. Therefore, your face cannot
9 be seen outside this courtroom and we will be referring to you as either
10 Witness or Witness 051. Do you understand that?
11 A. Yes, I understood it.
12 MS. MOTOIKE: Your Honours, may we move into private session,
14 JUDGE PARKER: Private.
15 [Private session]
10 [Open session]
11 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're in open session.
12 MS. MOTOIKE:
13 Q. Witness, drawing your attention to August, 2001 was the commander
14 you reported to Commander Blazo Kopacev in the 1st Guardist Brigade?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And at that time, was the commander of the 3rd Guardist Battalion
17 within the 1st Guardist Brigade named Major Mitre Despodov?
18 A. Yes.
19 MS. MOTOIKE: Your Honours, may we move into private session,
21 JUDGE PARKER: Private.
22 [Private session]
11 Pages 4119-4136 redacted. Private session.
18 [Open session]
19 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're in open session.
20 MS. MOTOIKE: Thank you, Your Honours. I have nothing further.
21 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you. Ms. Residovic.
22 Cross-examination by Ms. Residovic:
23 Q. [Interpretation] Good afternoon, sir, Witness M-051.
24 A. Good afternoon.
25 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Give me a moment, Your Honours,
1 please, to take the stand.
2 To prevent interrupting the witness when he starts answering, we
3 also prepared a binder with documents that we wish to show the witness so
4 I would like to ask for the assistance of the usher in distributing those
5 materials to the Chamber, to the witness and to the Prosecutor. Thank
7 Q. Mr. M-051, good afternoon. My name is Edina Residovic and
8 together with my colleague Guenael Mettraux, I appear for
9 Mr. Ljube Boskoski.
10 Before I start asking you questions, I would like to ask you,
11 Mr. M-051, to wait a while after you've heard my question for the question
12 to be interpreted into Macedonian and into English, so that the Bench and
13 the other colleagues in the courtroom are able to understand what I'm
14 asking you and please only then answer the question I've asked you. Did
15 you understand this?
16 A. I understand.
17 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I would like to ask
18 to move into a private session briefly.
19 JUDGE PARKER: Private.
20 [Private session]
11 Pages 4139-4141 redacted. Private session.
18 [Open session]
19 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're in open session.
20 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation]
21 Q. Pursuant to the constitution and the law of the Republic of
22 Macedonia you must be aware of this, the president of the republic is the
23 commander in chief of the army in both the states of war and the state of
24 peace. Is that correct?
25 A. Correct, he is the commander in chief.
1 Q. And you know, and you did know also, that the deployment of police
2 forces during a war, in a state of war, is also decided such decision
3 would be made by the president of the -- of the republic as a supreme
5 A. Correct. In cooperation, yes.
6 Q. Although in 2001 a new law on defence was adopted you could agree
7 with me if I say that the president of the republic, due to the fact that
8 no secondary legislation was adopted actually, played this role of his as
9 a commander in chief throughout the crisis for this entire period. Is
10 that correct?
11 A. It's correct.
12 Q. When the deployment of police forces for military purposes is
13 decided, because of the basic principles that any army is organised upon
14 and that is the unity and hierarchy of the command, the police forces that
15 are used in military operations are under the command of the military
16 commanders. Is that correct?
17 A. It is correct.
18 Q. Mr. M-051, could you agree with me that the decisions of strategic
19 importance are usually issued by the commander in chief and the General
20 Staff, while the corps commanders are usually making operational
21 decisions, while the lower levels of command usually make the decisions of
22 a tactical level?
23 A. This is correct.
24 Q. I would like to ask you something completely different now,
25 unrelated to the questions that other persons testified about
1 before this Court.
2 I would like to ask you whether it is correct that the president,
3 as a commander in chief, has in June 2001, adopted a decision about the
4 defence of the city of Skopje, and do you agree with me that such decision
5 was a decision of a strategic nature?
6 A. Yes, such decision was adopted on the defence of the city of
7 Skopje, and four brigades were established. Now, I could give you their
8 numbers: 12, 6, 8 and 1, I think, 1st Guardist Brigade.
9 Q. I would ask you now to look at -- behind tab 7, a document which
10 is Exhibit 1D949 -- 99.
11 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's correction, Exhibit 1D99. Can you
12 please repeat the document number.
13 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Exhibit 1D99. It is in tab 7.
14 This is a document which is not made public.
15 Q. Mr. M-051, you see a document from the president of the Republic
16 of Macedonia, from the 11th of June, 2001, signed by the president of the
17 Republic of Macedonia, Boris Trajkovski. Is this a decision of strategic
18 nature brought by the president about establishing defence command of the
19 city of Skopje?
20 A. I think that it is a strategic document. Since this is about the
21 capital of the republic, of a state.
22 Q. And in item 2, it lists the brigades which you just also
23 enumerated, which are -- became part of the defence command of the city of
24 Skopje. Is this correct?
25 A. Yes, it is correct. All these brigades are noted here.
1 Q. You can agree with me that the defence of the capital always a
2 very important defence task of an army. Is this correct?
3 A. It is correct.
4 Q. In the concrete situation, can you agree with me that this was of
5 particular importance in view of the fact that the city of Skopje is
6 located close to the -- bordering southern Serbia and also not far from
7 the border with Kosovo?
8 A. I agree.
9 Q. Also you could agree with me that in these areas there are --
10 there was for a longer period of time, a state of crisis, and in 2001,
11 there were terrorist groups and NLA groups, which by way of Skopska Crna
12 Gora, by -- were connecting and coming together through each other nearby
14 A. Yes, via Skopska Crna Gora, Tetovo, Radusa.
15 Q. I would now ask you to look at document after -- or in tab 12.
16 This is Exhibit 1D81, and this is 10342 in the Macedonian. And it is
17 English page 1D3048.
18 Have you found this document, Mr. M-051?
19 A. I found it.
20 Q. This is command of the defence of Skopje of the 11th of June,
22 A. Yes, it is correct.
23 Q. And pertains to the defence of the city of Skopje.
24 A. Yes, that is correct. I know this document.
25 Q. And if you were to look at the last page of this document, 1D3047
1 and the English version 1D3053, then you could agree that this order was
2 given by Commander General Major Sokol Mitrevski, who was the commander of
3 the defence of the city of Skopje. Is this correct?
4 A. Yes, it is correct.
5 Q. We could say, if you agree with me, that after the strategic
6 decision of the president of the republic about the defence of the city of
7 Skopje, that the commander of the defence of Skopje, made an order for the
8 defence of the city of Skopje which was, in effect, an order of operative
9 nature. Is this correct?
10 A. Correct. From this order, the order for our brigade was derived.
11 Actually, for the 1st Guardist Brigade.
12 Q. And you could concur with me that, in effect, on the basis of this
13 order, in effect, that this order established the mission and the basic
14 task of all bodies which take part in the defence of the city, primarily
15 the army and then police and other bodies. Is this correct?
16 A. It is correct. It is correct, on the basis of this order we are
18 Q. And you have just said that on the basis on this, the order of the
19 1st Guardist Brigade was also brought. Is this correct?
20 A. It is correct.
21 Q. To the extent of your knowledge there was one defence of Skopje
22 and other bodies did not make or bring decisions but, in effect, joined in
23 and executed the tasks which are listed in this order. Is this correct?
24 A. It is correct.
25 Q. And on the basis of this order, is it correct, Mr. M-051, other
1 bodies were obliged to carry out their duties, to plan and to carry out
2 actions so as to carry out the goals and the mission of this order. Is
3 this correct?
4 A. Yes. Everyone would do their part.
5 Q. When we saw a while back the decision of the president and the
6 order made on its basis, you would agree that this is consistent to your
7 understanding and knowledge of the role of the president as the commander
8 in chief, and giving tasks to army and other bodies for the purpose of the
9 defence. Is this correct?
10 A. It is correct.
11 Q. I would now ask you -- this decision, to look at the other page of
12 this decision in -- of this order, 1D3043, the English version 3049, I
14 You can see on the top of this page there's item 3, and in
15 paragraph 4, the English version, this is -- item 4 is on the other page,
16 in 3050. No, this is not so.
17 My apologies, let me just have a look.
18 This is 3049, and this is the fourth paragraph of this page, and I
19 would read it out to you. Here it is said: "The forces of the MOI, of
20 MVR blocked the village of Aracinovo and controlled the access points
21 towards the village. With appropriate forces, they secure the facilities
22 of vital importance in the central city area, command post in the MVR
23 facility in Skopje."
24 Do you agree with me, Mr. M-051, that this order and this way of
25 assigning tasks to the Ministry of Interior is practically in accordance
1 with your understanding of the unified command whereby commands of the
2 commander in chief in the joint defence of Skopje are issued through tasks
3 also to the -- units of the Ministry of Interior? Is this correct?
4 A. It is correct. It is correct the conjunction is mentioned here,
5 joint action. It mentions joint action, in order to prevent deploying
6 army forces at that facility. It is mentioned that police forces will be
7 deployed at the entrance to Aracinovo. So they would then take -- carry
8 out actions at their own level, in order to avoid confusion in the
9 competences between the army and the police so that it does not happen
10 that a facility secured by both army and police, well, there is no need
11 for that.
12 Q. I would now ask you to look at item 5.3 on page 1D3044 and the
13 English version is 1D3050. And here you can see a task of your 1st
14 Guardist Brigade. This tasks, item 2 says that: "With -- supporting upon
15 favour of ground facilities and in joint action with the 12th Brigade and
16 the 8th Ground Brigade and the 1st Brigade and the forces of MVR that are
17 acting within or in that vicinity of the assigned zone to hinder the
18 access of diversion terrorist forces and action upon the central city of
19 Skopje and the organs of Skopje."
20 Do you agree with me if I were to say to you that your brigade had
21 the task of, in effect, together with the Ministry of Interior, act so as
22 to prevent the access of diversion terrorist forces towards the city of
24 A. It is correct. I agree with you.
25 Q. Now I would ask you to look at the next page, 1D3045, item 8.2.
1 The English version is 1D3051. In this part of the order, the tasks are
2 established of intelligence security, and 8.3, security protection which,
3 in fact, are tasks which you carried out in the brigade. Is this correct?
4 A. It is correct.
5 Q. In this item, it is stated that the focus of the intelligence
6 should be on timely notifying of divertive terrorist groups and a
7 gathering information for their deployment strength, arms and direction of
8 movement. And in point 3, it is stated that G3 should secure timely and
9 good quality exchange of information with responsible bodies with the MOI
10 in the area of responsibility.
11 Is this correct?
12 A. I see that it is correct. (redacted)
13 Q. And in relation to this, when you came to that area, you
14 immediately established cooperation with the regional police stations and
15 the units of the Ministry of the Interior in the municipalities that were
16 there, where your brigade was deployed. Is that correct?
17 A. Yes, this is correct. We established cooperation with
18 municipality of Georce Petrov, of Cair, with the police station.
19 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's correction, Police Station Cair,
20 Mirkovci and Gazi Baba.
21 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation]
22 Q. If I were to put to you that when testifying before this Court,
23 the witness Mario Jurisic --
24 Your Honour, I apologise. (redacted)
3 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation]
4 Q. That Mario Jurisic, the commander of the 2nd Company of the 3rd
5 Battalion, testified that he and his soldiers observed immediately upon
6 their arrival significant movements and various elements that showed the
7 presence of the NLA in Ljuboten and around Ljuboten, then you could
8 confirm, corroborate his testimony before this Court?
9 A. I confirm that this is so. I have a lot of information about this
10 movement, which can be seen in the document which I have written myself
11 and sent and (redacted)
14 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]
15 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.
16 Q. I would like ask you to avoid mentioning your post so that we are
17 able to protect your identity, in accordance with the decision of the
18 Chamber while you're testifying here and I will also take care about that.
19 A. Yes, my apologies.
20 Q. Tell me, is it correct that the information spoke the words
21 "people having been seen wearing black uniforms, people -- armed people
22 having been seen," that there were movements around the village during the
23 night, that also some of the cattle was taken to the areas where the NLA
24 was active, also parts of uniforms and ammunition were found in that area,
25 in the direction between the village and the NLA positions, that it was
1 ammunition of Chinese origin, and some were unexpended, live ammunition,
2 which meant that the ammunition was transported through the village, are
3 those the facts that you learned from your subordinates, and, as you
4 stated, also from your personal observations?
5 A. Yes, everything which you have just said is correct.
6 Q. Was that for you a sign that the village of Ljuboten was used as a
7 logistics base for the needs of the NLA.
8 A. One could say that.
9 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Maybe, Your Honours, this would be
10 a convenient time for the recess.
11 JUDGE PARKER: We will break now.
12 Could I mention before we do the matter that had been raised by
13 Ms. Motoike. The document marked for identification, 1D85, was marked for
14 identification because there was no translation available of it. One has
15 been provided by the Prosecution and is now incorporated. It would seem
16 that that document should now be received as an exhibit, and that will now
18 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]
19 --- Recess taken at 3.44 p.m.
20 --- On resuming at 4.17 p.m.
21 JUDGE PARKER: We -- I gather, there may be some matter,
22 Mr. Saxon, that you need to raise.
23 Ms. Residovic, I'm sure, will excuse you a moment.
24 MR. SAXON: Thank you, Your Honour, very briefly.
25 It was recently confirmed to me that there has been a glitch, if
1 you will, in the travel plans made for the next scheduled Prosecution
2 witness who was expected to arrive here in The Hague today. Because of
3 this error that was made, not on the part of the Prosecution, this person
4 will not arrive until sometime late tomorrow and therefore will not be
5 available to begin his testimony, as the Prosecution had anticipated at
6 some point during tomorrow's session.
7 So I wanted to inform the Chamber of that, and depending on how
8 long the testimony of the present witness goes, it might be that we are
9 finishing early tomorrow. This error will also have an impact, Your
10 Honours, on the schedule of witnesses for the remainder of the week. The
11 Prosecution had originally intended to bring two Rule 92 bis so-called
12 crime base witnesses to be here to testify on Friday and after consulting
13 with the Defence we agreed that that would now not be realistic and we
14 will only bring one such crime base witness to be here on Friday. It is
15 important that we keep the schedule that we had set for next week because
16 there are two expert witnesses scheduled to come and they have very tight
17 schedules and have made room in their schedules for this Court next week.
18 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Saxon, thank you for that.
19 There's no point for any particular comments about how desirable
20 or undesirable or unfortunate. We accept these things can happen, they
21 have happened.
22 Mr. Mettraux, is there something?
23 MR. METTRAUX: Perhaps to assist, Your Honour, we have had an
24 opportunity to discuss the matter of one of the two crime base witnesses
25 which Mr. Saxon has just mentioned and we've also briefly mentioned it to
1 Mr. Saxon. The Defence for Mr. Boskoski and the Defence for
2 Mr. Tarculovski have taken the view that if it is agreeable to the
3 Chamber, we would not insist on cross-examining one of the two crime base
4 witnesses in question which may facilitate the planning of this we can
5 avoid this particular witness having to travel. I'm not sure whether the
6 name of the witness should be mentioned in public session, but if we go
7 into private session I would be happy to do so.
8 In any case, that would be the, I think, the first of the two
9 crime base witnesses to be scheduled for the current week.
10 JUDGE PARKER: I don't think there is a need for the Chamber at
11 this point to know the name. The Chamber, and I'm sure, Mr. Saxon are
12 encouraged by what you have said and no doubt discussion between Defence
13 and Prosecution will enable Mr. Saxon to plan the arrival of his witnesses
14 in light of that very helpful comment.
15 Thank you.
16 MR. SAXON: In light of that helpful comment, Your Honour, I
17 simply need to emphasise that although the Prosecution is grateful for the
18 expressions by my colleagues on the other side, we may still decide to
19 bring the witness in question that they are referring to.
20 JUDGE PARKER: Well, we have dealt with this matter enough now. I
21 think we move on and we continue to move on as fast as we can with the
22 present witness, because the Chamber is delighted if there is any time
23 available because of other matters.
24 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours.
25 Q. Mr. M-051, prior to the break we were -- or, rather you
1 established that you agree with my assessment that you -- in the brigade
2 and you personally in 2001, had knowledge that the village of Ljuboten is
3 being used as a logistics base for the NLA. Is this correct?
4 A. It is correct.
5 Q. In addition to the information which you received in the army of
6 the Republic of Macedonia and in accordance with the order of the command
7 of the city of Skopje, point 8, page 1D3046 and others which we earlier
8 saw, you acquired and received information also from the police bodies
9 about this fact. Is this correct?
10 A. It is correct.
11 Q. The information which the police had was much more comprehensive
12 because the army, in this area, arrived only in June 2001, while the
13 police marked and followed the security state on the ground there for a
14 much longer period of time. Is this correct?
15 A. I don't have any written document from the police, since they do
16 not have a duty to communicate information to me in writing. But I
17 confirm this, that when we arrived at these positions in those villages,
18 it was only then that we started gathering information about the movements
19 and the stay there, stay of terrorists or members of other groups.
20 Q. In view of the duties which you had in the army, and in view of
21 your present position in the Ministry of Interior, it is clear to you that
22 the questions related to security and observation of the situation was a
23 matter of state and public security or it was called in the Republic of
24 Macedonia, the bureau for security and counter-intelligence. Were you
25 aware of this?
1 A. Yes, we were aware that they were working on those issues.
2 Q. And you knew that the police earlier and, in particular during the
3 time of the crisis, had regular controls that state control same as
4 military security had associates from among the rank of the Albanians,
5 that for a longer period of time they gathered information about the
6 situation on the ground, and that also they had available operative
7 equipment which enabled them to verify this information.
8 A. It is correct. I confirm this.
9 Q. I would now ask you to look at document in tab 15. This is 65 ter
10 1D510. The Macedonian page, 1D4705; the English 1D4707.
11 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Let us wait for the document to
12 appear on the screen.
13 Q. And you surely found this document in tab 15?
14 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, for the sake of the
15 transcript, we received this document from the Prosecution according to
16 Rule 68.
17 Q. You see, Mr. M-051, that this is a document of the Ministry of
18 Interior of the Republic of Macedonia, State Security of the 26th February
19 2001. Is this the document which you're looking at, at the moment?
20 A. Yes, that's the document.
21 Q. As of the type of document, we can see that this is a report about
22 a conversation with the position Ljubo, with the operative source Ljubo,
23 these are probably the undercover names with persons with whom state
24 security organs were in contact with. The topic is terrorism and
25 extremism. And in part 2, the content of the meeting: "One can see that,
1 confirming what was -- in confirmation of the above mentioned is the
2 information stated by the source. It was mentioned that not long ago in
3 the old mosque in the village of Ljuboten, during the Dzuma, there were
4 two unknown individuals, according to this speech they were from Kosovo,
5 which publicly informed those present that all kinds of financial aid was
6 needed for the self-style, UCPMB, KLA in terms of finance; and in
7 addition, emphasising that most important is, after all, to have massive
8 joining of people with weapons above 18 years of age and above in the
9 listed organisations --" I will stop reading here.
10 Is this document or does that document show that already in
11 February 2001 there was information about motivation and calling --
12 villagers from Ljuboten to give logistic support to terrorist diversion
13 groups and that they joined these groups themselves?
14 A. Yes. The document, according to its format, appears to be an
15 Official Note, and it is obvious that there is some operational source
16 with the pseudonym Ljubo, and very similar to the notes that I have
17 written in this sense, and in my opinion, this data is reliable.
18 And I will follow up on this. When I started my intelligence work
19 there, the same people gathered again in that mosque, and I've seen them
20 myself with my own eyes.
21 Q. I would now ask you to look at document in tab 16. This is
22 document 65 ter 1D511, page 1D4709 in the Macedonian; and 1D4711 in the
23 English version.
24 And would you agree with me that this is also a document of the
25 state security of Skopje and is an overview of the summary of interesting
1 security-related information which this person came to. Is this correct?
2 A. It is correct. This is a document --
3 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Source of this document is
4 identical as the previous one, Your Honours.
5 A. Can I just add something to this? Such documents, topographic
6 maps with diagrams or some other maps of the city of Skopje I have found
7 myself, as well, when making a search on the grounds in the vicinity of
8 Skopje. And maps -- but also sleeping bags and food were seized and then
9 handed over to my superior officers.
10 Q. I would ask you now to turn to the next page of this document.
11 This is 1D4710, or, rather the English version, the same page, last
12 paragraph. And I will read it to you in the Macedonian version where it
13 is stated: "We received information that in the area of Basinec above
14 Ljuboten village, large-scale movement of the population was observed
15 during the day and throughout the night, guards were organised around the
16 installations in the area. It was noticed that a large number of motor
17 vehicles was moving towards Basinec. There are rumours that an unknown
18 number of people are stationed in Basinec waiting to join in the defence
19 of Tanusevci in the event of an intervention by the MVR and ARM. At the
20 entrance of Ljuboten village from the direction of Ljubanci village young
21 men are deployed which guard the entrance of the village and do not let
22 anyone they do not know enter Ljuboten at night."
23 Mr. M-051, does this document also show that in February there
24 were clear information about the activities of NLA and UCK in and around
25 the village of Ljuboten?
1 A. Yes. This document shows it. Since we also had a problem with
2 the village of Tanusevci, and with Brest, Gosince, and a colleague of ours
3 was killed there during an action, and I'm sure that these people were
4 there to help, if help was needed.
5 Q. I will now ask you, Mr. M-051, to look at the document in tab 17
6 this is document 65 ter, 1D512. Macedonian page 1D4713; English 1D4715.
7 This document would be an Official Note of the state security
8 body, which comes from a conversation with collaborators. Is this
10 A. It is correct, yes. It is correct. It is, again, a document,
11 similar to the previous one.
12 Q. This document was written on the 5th of March, 2001. And in the
13 segment that is labelled content, it is said: "At the state of the
14 meeting, the source presentation information about the activities of
15 individuals in the region of Basinec, in Skopska Crna Gora, and the
16 village of Ljuboten."
17 In paragraph 2, in the last sentence, which begins with: "Also,
18 at the same time, the source stated that some of these individuals
19 regularly go down to the village of Ljuboten, in motor vehicles and also
20 to Skopje. According to him, the frequent movement of motor vehicle on
21 route Basinec-Ljuboten-Skopje is due to the supply of food and other
22 articles for the individuals who are staying there."
23 Is in this last sentence of this paragraph: "As a supplement, the
24 source also said that armed persons were known to descend also to the rest
25 homes at the village of Basinec where the people, refugees from Kosovo of
1 Romani nationality were located."
2 On the other page, 1D4714, in the second paragraph of the
3 Macedonian version, the same page in the English version the next-to-last
4 passage it is said: "With regard to the activities of individual from the
5 village of Ljuboten, the source said that recently, most regularly during
6 the night, young individuals would guard the entrance to the village from
7 the village of Ljubanci. They were unarmed and did not permit entry to
8 the village to unknown individuals."
9 Mr. M-051, is this also a document which clearly shows that the
10 information which you previously confirmed, that much earlier than the
11 deployment of your brigade in the area of Ljuboten, there was knowledge
12 about the presence of NLA in and around the village, and the fact that
13 Ljuboten is being used as logistics base correct? Is this correct?
14 A. Since this document is written a bit earlier than my arrival
15 there, but if I look at the actions of the people described here and the
16 explanations in the note, about some movement, supply, especially during
17 the night, I will confirm that this has happened also when we arrived
18 there, at those positions.
19 Also, tractors were used, also the sheep were used as a sort of a
20 disguise. The sheep were taken to the village, but a group of people
21 would come to the village together with the sheep, a larger or a smaller
22 group. I can confirm this. And you can also find it in the reports.
23 Q. Thank you. I would now ask to you look at the document in tab 18.
24 This is document 65 ter 1D, 1D513 and you will agree with me that is, once
25 again, a report from operative sources in positions known to the main
1 inspector for state security. This is a document 1D4717 in the
2 Macedonian; and 1D4719 of the English version.
3 In the contact under the information, which is given on the 8th of
4 March, 2001, in point 4, Roman numeral IV, third paragraph, it is stated:
5 "With his friend, he and his friend were camouflaged for an extended
6 period of time in one place waiting for any kind of game to pass.
7 However, after a while, the source noticed that a group of four
8 individuals of Albanian nationality from the village of Ljuboten was
9 heading towards them, all between the age of 20 and 25."
10 And in the last passage of this page, which begins with: "In the
11 context of the aforementioned, after around half an hour two unknown
12 individuals arrived with three fully laden horses from the direction of
13 the village of Aracinovo and Rastak and asked the welcoming party if they
14 were carrying was needed and immediately headed towards the village of
15 Ljuboten along the ridge of Skopska Crna Gora in the direction
16 Aracinovo-Tanusevci. There is a passable path which has been in use for
17 some time.
18 On the other page, the English version 1D47278 and English version
19 1D4720, the passage which begins with: "Further more, the source pointed
20 out that because of the security situation in the country and due to the
21 proximity of the village of Ljuboten from which gun-fire is often heard
22 where the Albanian population lives, the residents of the village of
23 Rastak have come up with the idea of organising their own protection of
24 the population in the case of any problems. However, without any concrete
25 undertakings or fulfilment on -- in the regards to this issue."
1 Mr. M-051, is this document -- does this document also show just
2 all the facts which you testified to looking at the previous documents of
3 the state security?
4 A. Looking at the document and analysing the description of the
5 localities, the roads, the -- whether the roads could be travelled and
6 also the movement in the directions that were mentioned, I also confirm
7 that this document is reliable, since it has been registered the
8 operational link is mentioned, also the costs for the interview or
9 conversation are also mentioned. I think that this document is a -- this
10 piece of paper deserves attention.
11 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, in view of the
12 relevance of the questions which these documents deal with and the fact
13 that the witness has testified that these facts to him have become known
14 when he arrived at the area, I presume that documents, 65 ter 1D510, 511,
15 512, and 13 be admitted as evidence.
16 JUDGE PARKER: Ms. Motoike.
17 MS. MOTOIKE: Just briefly, Your Honours, with respect to a few of
18 the documents, I believe 1D510 and, perhaps, 1D512 and the last document,
19 1D513, I believe the witness did attest to its authenticity and as well as
20 to some of the statements contained within.
21 With respect to the additional documents, I don't believe that the
22 witness was able to confirm the reliability of the contents of those
24 JUDGE PARKER: Are you saying you have no objection to the
25 admission of the three documents you have identified?
1 MS. MOTOIKE: Correct, Your Honour.
2 JUDGE PARKER: With respect to the other documents, Ms. Residovic,
3 is there anything further you wish to say?
4 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I have no further
5 explanations other than all of these documents we received from the
6 Prosecution, according to Rule 68, and clearly, they are authentic and the
7 witness, on each of these, confirmed that he believes that these are
8 documents which, so to say, usual, regular, and that his later knowledge
9 confirmed the facts which these documents discuss.
10 I have no further clarification on this.
11 JUDGE PARKER: The documents will be received.
12 THE REGISTRAR: 65 ter 1D510 will become Exhibit 1D141. 65 ter
13 1D511 will become Exhibit 1D142. 65 ter 1D512 will become Exhibit 1D143.
14 And 65 ter 1D513 will become Exhibit 1D144, Your Honours.
15 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation]
16 Q. Mr. M-051, although you're having looked in these document, you
17 already confirmed the facts, I would now like to ask you: Can you agree
18 with me that in addition to the fact that these documents show the
19 presence of NLA in and around the village of Ljuboten, would it be correct
20 that these documents also lead to the conclusion that, as early as the
21 start of the crisis in Macedonia in 2001, a number of young people from
22 Ljuboten joined the NLA?
23 A. This is correct.
24 Q. Mr. M-051, in view of the fact that in explaining partially your
25 understanding and way of work you confirmed that these and such documents
1 are reliable information, could you agree with me that all officers on the
2 basis of this information, officers of the Ministry of Interior, could
3 rely of the information which security came to, same as military officers
4 in the same manner relied on the information which you verified and
5 submitted to these officers?
6 A. This is correct. Intelligence and the bureau for security and
7 counter-intelligence relies and believes in its operatives, and all
8 information which are submitted are mostly strictly confidential or are
9 state secret. A piece of information, one information, to be circulated
10 in order for one information to be circulated it needs to be verified from
11 various sides. Therefore, I responsibly answer that these information is
12 reliable and correct.
13 Q. The information which we just saw are from the early period of the
14 crisis in the Republic of Macedonia from February and March. Could you
15 agree with me that similar and much more comprehensive information came
16 later and that you also, when you started working in June, also began
17 gathering such information?
18 A. The information in regards to the above place, ground, were
19 gathered in March, in April, in May, in June, in July, August, September,
20 up until 2002; while -- when the mobilised reservists were disbanded.
21 Q. In effect, when your brigade was deployed in the area of the
22 Ljuboten and Ljubanci villages and the surrounding villages, the situation
23 in this area was rather complex. Is this not so?
24 A. This is correct.
25 Q. Very soon after your soldiers, as you just stated earlier, began
1 to find various items such as parts of ammunitions or uniform, tell us,
2 please, is it correct that you frequently found ammunition of Chinese
3 origin which was not used by the army nor by the police of the Republic of
5 A. This is correct. We found ammunition exactly at Basinec, which
6 you mentioned, in Skopska Crna Gora, in the sheephold of Ardi, which kept
7 sheep there, and during the search of the sheep herd, we found ammunition
8 of Chinese origin.
9 Q. And then military security took in certain individuals. You
10 questioned a person called Ismet. Is this correct?
11 A. Yes, this is correct.
12 Q. He did not want to speak with you, and he came accompanied by a
13 person by the name of Kenan?
14 A. Let me clarify.
15 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, maybe we should
16 move into a private session because the witness will probably explain his
17 own activities which could lead to his identity being discovered.
18 JUDGE PARKER: Private.
19 [Private session]
11 Page 4165 redacted. Private session.
2 [Open session]
3 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're in open session.
4 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation]
5 Q. Mr. M-051, you've mentioned Kenan. Do you know that the leader of
6 the village of Ljuboten at that time was Kenan Salievski, or Kenan Saliu?
7 A. According to what I heard, Kenan imposed himself as the head and
8 responsible one for the village.
9 Q. Tell me, was he perceived as a hardliner in the village and is
10 your impression that he was connected to the NLA as well?
11 A. According to me, frankly speaking, I think he had connection with
12 the persons who were in the village, because he started to impose himself
13 on other people when the crisis began.
14 Q. Tell me, if Kenan Salievski were to say in his statement to the
15 Prosecutor that in the village Baki, or so-called Commander Lisi, was
16 linked to the NLA and that he learned this from Nain Saliu and Rexhep
17 Jusufi with whom Commander Lisi was close, then you would not have any
18 reason to take issue with this fact because certainly Kenan Salievski knew
19 who the other persons connected to the NLA were in the village of
20 Ljuboten. Is that correct?
21 A. This is correct. Perhaps he had links but I not researched or
22 investigated this. But can I confirm that he had links. Because the
23 persons which you mentioned are mentioned on that territory after the war
25 Q. If also Kenan Saliu would say again in the statement to the ICTY
1 investigator that at least Suad Saliu, Riza Jonuzi, Besim Murtezani,
2 Rafiz Bajrami, Shefajet Bajrami, Fikret Aliu, Nemed Aliu, Ruhan Jashari,
3 Ramadan Jalimi, Musa Selimi, Refedin Selimi, Faik Murati, Shefket Murati,
4 Zaik Murati, Rasim Murati and others whose names he could not mention were
5 NLA in that village, you could again confirm that Kenan Saliu would know
6 who the persons who are NLA members were from that village and that you,
7 also when working there, later would meet or encounter some of these names
8 as being NLA members?
9 A. I can here confirm --
10 JUDGE PARKER: Ms. Motoike.
11 MS. MOTOIKE: Apologies for the interruption, Your Honour, but I
12 believe the first part of my learned colleague's question asked to confirm
13 knowledge held by another person, in particular Kenan Salievski, which I
14 don't believe this witness can speak to.
15 JUDGE PARKER: I think the problem is largely one of the way the
16 question has been framed, Ms. Residovic.
17 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] I can see, Your Honours, that
18 maybe -- maybe I could break it into two questions.
19 Q. First, Mr. M-051, after I have told you what has Mr. Kenan Saliu
20 stated to the ICTY investigator, to the OTP investigator?
21 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's correction.
22 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation]
23 Q. Do you know of your person knowledge that Kenan Saliu, considering
24 his position was able to know who from among the villagers were NLA
1 A. I think he knew.
2 Q. And my second question, considering that I read to you many names,
3 is it correct also that through your own activities you learned that some
4 of these people were NLA members?
5 A. I cannot confirm with certainty, but I believe that these persons
6 were mentioned in one place as persons who possibly placed a mine in the
7 military reservists on the 10th of August.
8 Also, I can say that in the village of Ljuboten on the 10th of
9 August, three persons in black uniforms were seen in front of the house of
10 Zendeli in Ljuboten village, which leads me to think that one of the
11 Zendeli family members died.
12 Q. Thank you. You've mentioned a while ago that you were in
13 communication with the teacher, Dzeljo.
14 Before I continue asking questions, I would like to ask that we
15 move into a private session.
16 JUDGE PARKER: Private.
17 [Private session]
11 Pages 4169-4172 redacted. Private session.
1 [Open session]
2 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're in open session.
3 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation]
4 Q. After the decision to establish a command for the city, the
5 president, the commander in chief, also ordered call-up mobilisation in
6 the 1st Guardist Brigade. Is that correct?
7 A. Correct. I believe it was on the 20th of March.
8 Q. You can agree with me that in the summer 2001, also in August of
9 2001, most of the members of the 1st Guardist Brigade were members of the
10 reserve forces. Is that correct?
11 A. Correct.
12 Q. And if the witness Despodov would say before this Court that his
13 battalion had as much as 95 per cent of reserve forces and the witness
14 Jurisic that more than 80 per cent of his company were from the reserve
15 forces these notions would be accurate. Is that correct?
16 A. Yes, that is correct.
17 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, Despodov is
18 transcript page 2614 and 2632, and Jurisic transcript page 3353.
19 Q. And pursuant to the regulation applicable in the army of the
20 Republic of Macedonia, the reserve forces would be replaced every month.
21 Is that correct?
22 A. It is.
23 Q. And that was a huge obligation on the army and your brigade to
24 develop and train the newcomers from among the reserve forces.
25 A. This is correct.
1 Q. Over such a brief period of time it was very difficult to
2 establish actual real control over some of the reserve forces. Is that
3 correct as well?
4 A. This is correct. There were many undisciplined persons.
5 Q. In the statement you gave to the OTP and also in your notes, in
6 your log, one can see that the -- some reservists shot a cow in the
7 village of Ljuboten, and this is why you entered discussions with the
8 villagers of Ljuboten. Is that correct?
9 A. Yes, we had such talks. The cows was taken to a vet. It was
10 checked, it was then killed, slaughtered and the reservist who shot the
11 cow was immediately replaced, or, rather, taken from the village of
13 Q. Also, from the log that you saw, that you have kept over a period
14 of time, but also from other information that you have, we learned that
15 there were other violations of discipline in the battalion and in the
16 brigade, and this is why disciplinary sanctions were taken against the
17 perpetrators, against the offenders?
18 A. Correct. Rigorous measures were taken against the reservists.
19 Q. It would happen that celebrating a holiday or for any other
20 unlawful reason they would shoot from their fire-arms and this would be a
21 violation of the discipline.
22 A. They were cases of shooting, of breaking the discipline but
23 measures were taken to have -- to have the ammunition be paid for and --
24 Q. And you stated that these persons were sanctioned and strictly and
25 they would be removed from the army. Is that correct?
1 A. If they had to be prosecuted, they were prosecuted by the courts.
2 If the problem had not been so severe, the same day they were released
3 from the army.
4 Q. But because of the complex situation and the huge number of the
5 reserve forces and their turnover, it happened that many violations went
6 undiscovered. It could have happened. Is that so?
7 A. There were also cases, but much more rarely.
8 Q. Mr. M-051, would you agree with me if I say if in a joint action
9 of the army and the members of the MOI where the command belongs to the
10 military commander, a member of the MOI would act in breach of the powers
11 vested in him or would commit a criminal offence even, then the military
12 superior would have the duty to inform the direct superior of his in the
13 Ministry of the Interior so that superior could then take sanctions
14 against the offender, the police officer. Would that be the proper way to
15 act in order to establish responsibility of a police officer participating
16 in the joint action?
17 A. It is correct. If the commander of the army is responsible for
18 the joint action and if somebody makes a disciplinary offence, then the
19 proposal to sanction them would come from the commander, from the
20 immediate superior.
21 Q. If the military commander would fail to forward this information
22 to the police superior officer, then, of course, the police superior would
23 have no knowledge about the offence that has taken place. Do you agree
24 with me?
25 A. Yes, I agree, of course. If that fails ...
1 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] I would like to ask to move into a
2 private session again, Your Honours, briefly.
3 JUDGE PARKER: Private.
4 [Private session]
11 Pages 4177-4179 redacted. Private session.
1 [Open session]
2 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're in open session.
3 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation]
4 Q. You have testified that on the 10th of August at the Ljuboten
5 Bacila there was an explosion of a mine. Is it correct that in this
6 explosion eight people were killed and six members of the army of the
7 Republic of Macedonia were wounded?
8 A. It is correct. Seven were killed, and the 8th one died on the
9 road, when transported to the military hospital, to the army hospital. So
10 it was eight killed and six wounded.
11 Q. And among the killed were two members of the reserves from the
12 village of Ljubanci, a village neighbouring of the village of Ljuboten.
13 Is this correct.
14 A. It is correct, two reservists.
15 Q. Your soldiers, after the explosion found at the site a substantial
16 number of ammunition and arms. Is this correct?
17 A. It is correct. There were minutes on that noting the weapons
19 Q. I would now ask you to look at the document after -- on tab 22.
20 This is exhibit 1D86.
21 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] And I would ask that the documents
22 be shown to the public without naming who this document was given to, or
23 rather, without stating where these, all of those items were handed over
24 to --
25 Q. Tell me, whether it is correct that the total -- the ammunition
1 found at the site where the mine exploded was handed by the commander of
2 the 3rd Guard Brigade, Mitre Despodov?
3 A. It is correct.
4 Q. In testifying to this Court, Mitre Despodov said that, in
5 addition to the item listed from 1 to 19 on this list, the explosive means
6 and equipment found, also two documents were handed over, one driving
7 licence and a passport for two persons, inhabitants of Ljuboten. Does
8 this statement remind you that at Ljubotenski Bacila also a driving
9 licence and a passport were -- of two persons from Ljuboten were found?
10 A. Yes, it is correct. The passport, the passports, and the driver's
11 licence, and I think there were some property documents from the land
12 cadastre but there were not sent to be destroyed, since these objects
13 listed here were sent to be destroyed, while the driver's licence and the
14 passports were sent to the sector for intelligence and for security and
15 counterintelligence as evidence.
16 Q. Thank you.
17 For the purpose of this transcript Despodov, Witness Despodov
18 spoke about this on page 2663 and 2664.
19 Your understanding was that the surviving soldiers were also shot
20 from the positions of the NLA?
21 A. It is correct.
22 Q. Then members of the army opened fire to the positions of the NLA.
23 Is this correct?
24 A. It is correct. Fire was opened from the positions and several
25 weapons and instruments were used in that fire.
1 Q. Can you agree with me if I were to put it to that you the
2 positions of the NLA from which it was fire were across from the village
3 of Ljuboten, while the positions of the army were above the village of
4 Ljuboten, and that it was possible for the mortars and other grenades that
5 were shot by the NLA towards the position of the army could also hit --
6 have hit the village?
7 A. I could not confirm this with certainty, but seeing as how they
8 fired at us, since the mines impacted everywhere, it was possible that
9 some of the shells impacted in the village, but I'm not sure about this.
10 Q. The investigation about this event was led by the military police
11 of the army of the Republic of Macedonia. Is this correct?
12 A. It is correct. The location of the mine explosion, the
13 investigation, the photographs, the albums, everything was taken care by
14 the army police, and I think I have an Official Note speaking about that
15 day, about what has happened on that date. And the detailed results and
16 the images and the photographs taking on the scene that was done by the
17 military police.
18 Q. The institute for forensic medicine also carried out post-mortems
19 of the killed soldiers of the army of the Republic of Macedonia. Is this
21 A. That is correct. Because I have seen that album in the military
23 Q. Never was one -- either one member of the NLA was not held
24 responsible for this massacre?
25 A. Thus far, none was held responsible.
1 Q. Earlier, in answering to one of my questions, you said that you
2 had knowledge that on that day on the 8th of August [as interpreted],
3 2001, three to four armed individuals enter the village, most probably --
4 which most probably took part in placing the mines. Is this correct?
5 A. That is correct. You can see it from my log, from my notebook.
6 When I received a call from the positions above Ljuboten, that in front of
7 the Zendeli house, the Zendeli family house, three people wearing black
8 uniforms were seen.
9 Q. When you spoke about the 12th of August, you said that in the army
10 barracks Ilinden, you went following the call of Commander Kopacev.
11 A. That is correct. Yes, he called me.
12 Q. And prior to arriving to the command, you did not have any
13 knowledge or any -- of any kind of activities being led in Ljuboten. Is
14 this correct?
15 A. It is correct. I didn't know anything.
16 Q. I would now ask, Your Honours, in view of the fact that we were
17 going on to the questions, reporting to the statements of the witness to
18 go into private session.
19 JUDGE PARKER: Private.
20 [Private session]
11 Pages 4184-4194 redacted. Private session.
13 [Open session]
14 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're in open session.
15 Cross-examination by Mr. Apostolski:
16 Q. [Interpretation] Good evening, Witness M-051.
17 A. Good evening.
18 Q. I am Antonio Apostolski. I am the lead counsel for
19 Johan Tarculovski. I have with me my co-counsel Jasmina Zivkovic. I wish
20 to tell you before I start my cross-examination that I will ask my
21 questions in Macedonian and that is a language you understand. But still,
22 you should know that my questions and your answers need to be interpreted
23 into several languages, so please do not rush into answering and wait for
24 your answer to be interpreted.
25 Did you understand this?
1 A. I did.
2 Q. The Skopje Defence Command was composed of four brigades. Is that
4 A. It is correct.
5 Q. The 1st Guardist Brigade was stationed to the north of Skopje. Is
6 that correct?
7 A. It is correct, to the north of Skopje.
8 Q. The 12th Infantry Brigade was stationed in the eastern area of
9 Skopje. Is that correct?
10 A. It is correct.
11 Q. The 16th Infantry Brigade was stationed at Vodno hill. Is that
13 A. Yes, correct. To the south of Skopje at the hill Vodno.
14 Q. The 8th Infantry Brigade was stationed in the western part of
15 Skopje. Is that correct?
16 A. Yes, it is correct. Western part of Skopje towards Tetovo.
17 Q. Commander of the Skopje Defence Command was the
18 General Sokol Mitrevski. Is that correct?
19 A. Yes, brigade General Sokol Mitrevski.
20 Q. Commander of the 1st Army Brigade was Blazo Kopacev?
21 A. Yes, Blazo Kopacev. He was first lieutenant Colonel and then a
23 Q. Within the 1st Guardist Brigade was also the 3rd Guardist
24 Battalion under the command of Major Mitre Despodov and it was stationed
25 at Skopska Crna Gora mountain. Is that correct?
1 A. It is correct. It was stationed at Skopska Crna Gora mountain, at
2 the village of Ljubanci.
3 Q. That was so because there was a risk of the NLA terrorists
4 transferring their actions at the territory of Skopje. Is that correct?
5 A. Yes, it is correct. I agree.
6 Q. The greatest risk came from -- no, I apologise, yes.
7 The greatest risk came from the direction of Skopska Crna Gora
8 mountain, more precisely the direction village Matejce to village
9 Ljuboten. Is that correct?
10 A. It is correct. Since behind Skopska Crna Gora mountain there is
12 MR. APOSTOLSKI: [Interpretation] Could I have the assistance of
13 the usher in distributing binders to the Chamber, to the witness, and to
14 my colleagues from the Prosecution.
15 Q. Is it correct that you had information acquired in the course
16 of your work that NLA will attack the city of Skopje?
17 A. We had such information, since they spoke publicly, through all
18 media. They would make statements, threats. You know that all NLA
19 commanders were featured on the Internet and anyone could see them.
20 Q. Did you have information that Ljuboten could be used as the next
21 location from which NLA will carry out terrorist attacks?
22 A. Yes, we had such information.
23 MR. APOSTOLSKI: [Interpretation] Could the witness please be shown
24 65 ter number 2D00-338, which is in tab 2 of the binder.
25 Q. Do you see it in front of you? Do you see it on the screen? You
1 have it on the screen, and it is also in tab 2 of the binder.
2 A. I see it.
3 Q. Can you see in the upper left corner written: "Security and
4 counter-intelligence administration RO UBK, Prilep?"
5 A. Give me just a moment to orient myself.
6 Q. No, I apologise. It is UBK, Skopje. OS UBK, Gazi Baba.
7 A. Yes, that's the way it is.
8 Q. "Type of material, report on meeting with operative source from
9 operative source Vojnik," or soldier in translation.
10 And then it says on page 2, in item 2.
11 A. I see it, yes.
12 Q. From numerous points in the hills of Skopska Crna Gora were NLA
13 reconnaissance points have been placed in order to follow the Macedonian
14 security forces movements on the route between Aracinovo, Stracinci,
15 Cresevo, Bulacani, Rastak, Ljuboten, and first through their physical
16 presence but also later with use of military equipment to intimidate the
17 Macedonian population, that would panic and flee towards Skopje.
18 This would open the corridor Aracinovo-Ljuboten, that in their
19 belief is of multiple significance. It would facilitate the military
20 activities of NLA near Aracinovo. It would greatly facilitate the actions
21 against Skopje, either through classical sabotage terrorist activities or
22 through open military activities. Such corridor would also protect the
23 NLA positions near the monastery of Matejce and through this, also their
24 positions in the villages Otlaj, Matejce, and Vistice.
25 Do this information correspond to the information that you had
2 A. It is correct the information to correspond, especially regarding
3 the villages of Stracinci, Cresevo, Bulacani, Rastak, Ljuboten, that are
4 the positions of my brigade or the 3rd Company of the 3rd Battalion.
5 Q. I if may tender this document in evidence.
6 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.
7 THE REGISTRAR: As exhibit 2D35, Your Honours.
8 JUDGE PARKER: And I think had an is it probably the time,
9 Mr. Apostolski.
10 MR. APOSTOLSKI: [No interpretation]
11 MS. MOTOIKE: Your Honour, I apologise. If I may, there's a
12 reference on line 12 of page 86 of today's transcript that I believe
13 should be redacted as it refers to a particular position.
14 JUDGE PARKER: Yes. Thank you.
15 MS. MOTOIKE: Thank you.
16 MR. APOSTOLSKI: [Interpretation] Thank you.
17 JUDGE PARKER: We will now adjourn and resume tomorrow at 2.15.
18 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 7.00 p.m., to
19 be reconvened on Tuesday, the 28th day of August,
20 2007, at 2.15 p.m.