1 Friday, 31 August 2007
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 [The witness entered court]
5 --- Upon commencing at 9.04 a.m.
6 JUDGE PARKER: Good morning. It is a pleasure to see you at a
8 May I remind you, sir, that the affirmation you made at the
9 beginning of your evidence still applies.
10 Now Mr. Saxon.
11 MR. SAXON: We'll take that as a compliment, Your Honour.
12 JUDGE PARKER: It is intended to reflect upon the cosiness of our
13 normal courtroom.
14 WITNESS: BLAGOJA TOSKOVSKI [Resumed]
15 [Witness answered through interpreter]
16 Re-examination by Mr. Saxon: [Continued]
17 Q. Mr. Toskovski, I'm not going to explore with you further the
18 extent of the injuries you that you observed on Atulla Qaili when you
19 interviewed him on the night of 12th, 13th August. However, I do want to
20 explore with you another aspect of Mr. Qaili's case that Ms. Residovic
21 raised with you yesterday.
22 At page 4376 of the transcript, Ms. Residovic explained to you
23 that, according to one witness, police officers came twice to the home of
24 the brother of Mr. Atulla Qaili, and Ms. Residovic asked you: "Would that
25 indicate that probably your colleagues from other departments were trying
1 to learn a bit more about the actual death of Atulla Qaili."
2 And you responded: "Yes, yes. It is correct. Other colleagues
3 and also us from the operative department in the Cair police station
4 repeatedly tried to gather information not only on Atulla but also on the
5 other persons, but the route to cooperation was closed by the villagers so
6 we had no opportunity to get at any information."
7 Do you recall that exchange yesterday with my colleague
8 Ms. Residovic?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Help us please understand something, Mr. Toskovski. How would the
11 police have located the brother of Atulla Qaili and the brother's address?
12 A. I don't understand your question. Could you please clarify it.
13 Q. Well, yesterday Ms. Residovic told you that police officers went
14 to the home of the brother of Atulla Qaili to ask him some questions. And
15 so I'm asking you how the police would have found the brother, where would
16 they have gone to look for an address, how would they have learned that
17 Mr. Qaili had a brother. Where does this information come from?
18 A. I don't know about this concrete case, but from various sources
19 such information can be obtained. In this concrete case, I do not know
20 from where the police obtained this information.
21 Q. Can you tell us, please, more specifically what you mean
22 by "various sources"? What kinds of sources, which sources?
23 A. These are, above all, the official records, then friends in the
24 village or in the city, and similar sources.
25 Q. When you say the "official records," again, please, just so that
1 we understand you, can you be more specific? What kind of official
3 A. There's an ID database with information about all persons of age
4 who hold an ID in the country.
5 Q. And so as part of a police investigation they would look at such
6 databases. Is that correct?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Can you tell us, Mr. Toskovski, which of your colleagues went to
9 the house of Atulla Qaili's brother?
10 A. I don't know which colleagues went there.
11 Q. Do you know the specific reasons why your colleagues went to the
12 home of Atulla Qaili's brother?
13 A. I don't know the concrete reasons, but I presume that this was
14 about what we talked about earlier, to obtain some information in regards
15 to the case.
16 Q. Do you know the results of the visit? Do you know what was said
17 between your colleagues and Atulla Qaili's brother?
18 A. I have not seen this report, so I don't know.
19 Q. All right. You talked about how police repeatedly tried to gather
20 information about Atulla Qaili during this time. Did the police check the
21 medical records for Atulla Qaili at Skopje City Hospital, or speak with
22 the doctors who treated Mr. Qaili there?
23 A. I don't know this.
24 Q. Well, if this had happened, would you have received the
25 information to include it in your report?
1 A. I presume that this would have been so.
2 Q. Do you know whether the police reviewed the autopsy report for
3 Atulla Qaili? An autopsy was performed on him -- I can't be specific, it
4 was either the 13th or the 14th of August.
5 A. Police does not look at these results. These result from the
6 autopsy are submitted to the public prosecutor and the investigating
8 Q. Well, could the police speak with the doctors at the Forensic
9 Institute in Skopje who performed the autopsy?
10 A. I do not know, but I presume that for the unit for violent crimes
11 spoke with him about this. He should have done that.
12 Q. And if that was done, where would the record of such a
13 discussion be, where would we find that?
14 A. In the analytics sector.
15 Q. All right. I'm going to come back to the analytics sector in a
17 Yesterday at page 4368, you explained to my colleague that when
18 you submitted your criminal report about the ten arrested persons who were
19 being detained at Mirkovci police station, you were still waiting for the
20 results of paraffin glove tests to arrive. Do you recall that?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Can you recall the results of these paraffin glove tests for those
23 ten persons who were detained at Mirkovci?
24 A. I think that it was positive.
25 MR. SAXON: Can we show the witness, please, what is Exhibit P46,
1 page 45.
2 Q. This is a document dated the 14th of August, 2001. It's sent to
3 the SOI, Skopje, OKT. Can you tell us, Mr. Toskovski, what these
4 abbreviations mean, SOI Skopje, OKT?
5 A. SVR sector for criminal techniques.
6 Q. The subject is analysis of fire-arm residues related to your act
7 dated 12 August 2001. And this document from an expert named Silvija
8 Kunovska and the head officer, Miroslav Uslinkovski. Says that "Regarding
9 your letter, where you are looking for information whether there's a
10 presence of a gunpowder residue on the delivered pieces of foils related
11 to the withdrawn tests on the hands of the follows persons," and then we
12 see the names of the ten persons who were detained at Mirkovci, "We would
13 like to inform you that because of the existence of an immense
14 contamination (dirtiness of various natures) found at the delivered foils,
15 we are not able to perform the examination you have requested. Actually,
16 we cannot apply any proper methods in order to find out, that is, detect
17 whether there is presence of gunpowder particle on the hands of the
19 Can we agree, Mr. Toskovski, that, actually, there were no test
20 results confirming the presence of nitrates on the hands of the ten
21 persons who were detained at Mirkovci police station?
22 A. I would not agree with this. I received oral information that
23 most of the tests tested positive. I don't know whether all of these
24 persons are those from the criminal reports.
25 Q. These persons are the persons that are on the criminal report that
1 you at least began to draft on the 13th of August, persons who you
2 interviewed at Mirkovci police station on the night of 12 and 13 August.
3 A. I think there were additional investigations and that there was a
4 positive paraffin glove test.
5 Q. And where would such a positive result be located?
6 A. They were submitted to the public prosecutor.
7 Q. I see. At page 4386, yesterday you explained to Ms. Residovic
8 that between the 12th and 31st of August when you submitted your report
9 about the events in Ljuboten you and your colleagues were constantly
10 trying to find more information about what happened at Ljuboten.
11 My question for you is this: Do you recall whether you reviewed
12 the daily log-books of the Cair and Mirkovci police station to see if the
13 log-books might provide you with additional information?
14 A. The daily log-book in Mirkovci I have seen this one to see whether
15 such persons were registered, the persons that were detained in Mirkovci
16 were registered.
17 Q. Did you review this log-book to give you any indication of which
18 members of the Macedonian police might have been in Ljuboten on the 12th
19 of August?
20 A. I have not seen such an information.
21 Q. Do you recall whether you spoke with your superior, Ljube
22 Krstevski, about finding information about which police officers were in
23 Ljuboten on the 12th of August?
24 A. I did not have such a conversation with him.
25 Q. Do you know a man named Dragan Jakimovski?
1 A. I do not know such a person.
2 Q. Yesterday at page 4387 you told Ms. Residovic that you reviewed
3 the information that came into the analytical sector at Cair police
4 station with respect to the events in Ljuboten.
5 Help us understanding something, sir. After information comes
6 into the analytical sector at Cair police station, where does that
7 analytical sector send the information? Where does it go from Cair?
8 A. Such information go to the analytical centre of SVR Skopje, of the
10 Q. And then from there, where would that information go?
11 A. In the analytical centre of the Ministry of Interior, on the level
12 of the state.
13 Q. I see. And that would be in Skopje?
14 A. You mean in the city?
15 Q. Yes.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And at the level of the state, does the analytical sector maintain
18 an archive for all this information?
19 A. I don't understand your question.
20 Q. Well, when the state, the sector for analytics at the state level
21 receives all this information, does that department, that unit, keep the
22 information in some form, in some place?
23 A. I don't know their technology of work. I presume that this would
24 be so, but I'm not certain.
25 Q. After you finished interviewing the ten arrested persons on the
1 night of 12 to 13 August, about what time did you leave the Mirkovci
2 police station?
3 A. In the morning of the 13th? Around 3.00.
4 Q. Yesterday at page 4374 of the transcript you told my learned
5 colleague that if an investigative judge had information about
6 mistreatment of a detainee they would have undertaken an investigation.
7 Let me ask you this: Suppose an investigating judge had
8 information indicating that detainees might have been mistreated but did
9 not investigate further. What conclusion would you draw from that?
10 A. I would not comment the work of the investigating judge.
11 MR. SAXON: Your Honour, I have no further questions.
12 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.
13 Sir, you will be pleased to know that that concludes the questions
14 to be asked of you. The Chamber would thank you for your attendance here
15 in The Hague and the assistance you have been able to give and the court
16 officer will show you out.
17 Thank you, indeed.
18 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.
19 [The witness withdrew]
20 JUDGE PARKER: And would you bring in the next witness.
21 Mr. Dobbyn, good morning. The name of your next witness, please?
22 MR. DOBBYN: Good morning. Is Ejup Hamiti, H-a-m-i-t-i, formerly
23 known as Ejup Ametov.
24 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.
25 [Trial Chamber confers]
1 [The witness entered court]
2 JUDGE PARKER: Good morning.
3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good morning.
4 JUDGE PARKER: Would you please read aloud the affirmation on the
5 card that has been given to you.
6 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will speak
7 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
8 WITNESS: EJUP HAMITI
9 [Witness answered through interpreter].
10 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you very much. Please sit down.
11 Now Mr. Dobbyn has some questions for you.
12 MR. DOBBYN: Thank you, Your Honour.
13 Examination by Mr. Dobbyn:
14 Q. Good morning, Mr. Hamiti.
15 A. Good morning.
16 Q. Now, Mr. Hamiti, do you recall giving a statement to the Office of
17 the Prosecutor on 9 February 2003?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Do you recall that on 19 November 2005 the statement was certified
20 by an officer of the Tribunal?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. At that time, did you have an opportunity to read the statement in
23 your native language?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And did you have an opportunity to make any corrections and
1 additions to that statement?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Were those corrections and additions handwritten into your
4 statement and also included in an addendum to the statement?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And are you satisfied that the content of your statement with
7 these corrections and the addendum is accurate and correct?
8 A. Yes.
9 MR. DOBBYN: Your Honours, at this time I would seek to tender the
10 statement and the addendum which bears the ERN N002-1977 N002-1987,
11 pursuant to Rule 92 bis.
12 JUDGE PARKER: Yes, Mr. Mettraux.
13 MR. METTRAUX: Thank you, Your Honour.
14 Simply to have a clarification from Mr. Dobbyn on this point. We
15 had understood in the past that the Prosecution would not seek to tender
16 the comments made by the witness in relation to particular documents and
17 in this particular case it would seem that the comments are attached to
18 the addendum, so if Mr. Dobbyn could simply indicate that, in fact, they
19 only seek to tender the clarification and correction made by the witness
20 as opposed to the comments which he made about certain documents, I would
21 be grateful.
22 MR. DOBBYN: Your Honour, the addendum I am referring to does not
23 contain any comments to documents. The ERN of that particular addendum is
24 N002-1985 to N002-1986. It was made on 19 November 2005.
25 MR. METTRAUX: I'm grateful to the Prosecutor, Your Honour. We
1 have a different version, whether to connect it together. We're grateful,
2 thank you.
3 JUDGE PARKER: The statement with the addendum will be received.
4 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit P417, Your Honours.
5 MR. DOBBYN: And at this time with Your Honour's permission I will
6 read a summary of that particular statement.
7 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.
8 MR. DOBBYN: The witness, Ejup Hamiti, formerly known as Ejup
9 Ametov is a Ljuboten resident of Albanian ethnicity. Between 10 and 12
10 August 2001 Ljuboten was targeted with gun-fire and shelling. On 12
11 August the witness saw a neighbour's house and barn burning and a
12 neighbour himself injured during attack. The witness took cover by a
13 river, along with a large number of other villagers. The witness intended
14 to return to the village but was informed that the police had entered
15 Ljuboten and that it was unsafe to return. The witness then joined other
16 villagers fleeing towards Skopje.
17 As they approached a check-point on the road to Skopje, the
18 witness and others were approached by a policeman who abused them and then
19 signalled a number of Macedonian civilians who were gathered in the area
20 to beat the witness and other Ljuboten villagers. The witness and another
21 villager, Dilaver Fetahovski, started running away towards Radisani. Two
22 policemen ordered them to stop before opening fire on them. The witness
23 was hit in the forehead by a bullet and fell unconscious.
24 The witness was subsequently admitted to intensive care at Skopje
25 City Hospital where he under went emergency surgery. Once he regained
1 consciousness his legs and hands were tied as were those of the other
2 Ljuboten villagers he saw at the hospital. The witness was released from
3 hospital on 17 August 2001 but continues to suffer health problems as a
4 result of his head injury.
5 Q. Now, at this point Mr. Hamiti, I'm going to be asking you a few
6 questions and I would just ask that you listen very carefully to the
7 question and provide an answer to that question.
8 MR. DOBBYN: I would like to call 65 ter number 199.21. This is a
9 photograph which is also on page 15 of the court binder.
10 And, I'm sorry, before I forget, Your Honours, we have prepared
11 witness binders for Your Honours and also for the witness.
12 Q. Mr. Hamiti, in your statement you describe being beaten by
13 Macedonian civilians at a location near a police check-point on the way to
14 Skopje. On the photograph which is on the screen in front of you, can you
15 see where that check-point was located?
16 A. Yes. Right here.
17 Q. Sorry.
18 MR. DOBBYN: Could I ask for the usher's assistance at this point.
19 Q. Mr. Hamiti, with the assistance of the usher, would you be able to
20 draw a circle in the area where that check-point was located?
21 A. Approximately here.
22 Q. And could you draw the number 1 above that circle, please.
23 A. Inside or outside the circle?
24 Q. Outside the circle, please.
25 A. [Marks].
1 Q. Thank you. And on this photograph, can you locate an area known
2 as Buzalak?
3 A. Yes. Buzalak of Ljuboten is here approximately; and down here you
4 have Buzalak of Radisani.
5 Q. And could you draw circles around those locations, please.
6 A. [Marks].
7 Q. I see you have drawn two circles. The one on the left, what is
8 the name of that area?
9 A. Buzalak of Radisani.
10 Q. And could you put the number 2 above that, please.
11 A. [Marks].
12 Q. Thank you. And the area to the right, what is that known as?
13 A. Buzalak of Ljuboten.
14 Q. And could you put the number 3 above that, please.
15 A. [Marks].
16 Q. Thank you. And on this photograph, are you able to see a location
17 known as Kodra e Zajmit?
18 A. No.
19 Q. In relation to this photograph, can you tell us where Kodra e
20 Zajmit is located?
21 A. Kodra e Zajmit is on the left side of this road, 200 to 300 metres
22 on the left side of the road.
23 Q. Thank you. Could you draw an arrow in the direction of Kodra e
24 Zajmit, please.
25 A. [Marks].
1 Q. Thank you. And could you put the number 4 above that.
2 A. [Marks].
3 Q. And can you tell us, sir, that in relation to this photograph,
4 which direction is Skopje?
5 A. Behind the arrow which is on the road under number 4, this is the
6 road taking to Skopje.
7 Q. Thank you. And on this photograph, can you see the location where
8 you, your friend Dilaver Fetahovski and his father were beaten by the
9 Macedonian civilians?
10 A. No. It's more in the inside, here approximately.
11 Q. So am I correct in understanding that it's very close to that
12 location but not actually visible in the photo?
13 A. Yes. It's nearby.
14 Q. Thank you. Could you put the number 5 above that circle, please.
15 A. [Marks].
16 Q. Thank you.
17 MR. DOBBYN: At this time, Your Honour, I would seek to tender
18 this photograph.
19 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Dobbyn, as I've understood the evidence, both
20 the markings 2 and 3 are of Buzalak of Radisani. Is that correct?
21 MR. DOBBYN: My understanding, Your Honour, was that number 2 is
22 Buzalak of Radisani; number 3 is Buzalak of Ljuboten.
23 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.
24 MR. DOBBYN: If I could just clarify.
25 Q. Is that correct, Mr. Hamiti?
1 A. Yes.
2 JUDGE PARKER: [Microphone not activated].
3 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit P418, Your Honours.
4 MR. DOBBYN: Thank you for your assistance, Mr. Usher.
5 Q. Mr. Hamiti, the policeman who signalled to the civilians to beat
6 you that you described in your statement, what was he wearing?
7 A. Police uniform.
8 Q. And could you describe that uniform?
9 A. Approximately, I don't remember very well, when I saw beating
10 them -- when started beating them, I lost my consciousness. I only saw
11 that they were wearing police uniforms. They had the patch writing
12 police. Afterwards, they started beating us, and this is it. Like this
14 Q. Sorry, could you please not look at that photograph just yet,
15 Mr. Hamiti. We'll be coming to that at a certain time.
16 A. I'm sorry.
17 Q. Now, at this time I would like to call up Exhibit P00015. This is
18 also photograph A from page 23 of the Prosecution's Court binder. And it
19 is in tab 2 of this witness binder.
20 If could you please look at tab 2 of the binder, Mr. Hamiti.
21 Do you recognise this photograph?
22 A. Yes. They wore these kind of uniforms.
23 Q. Now, apart from the policeman who signalled to the Macedonian
24 civilians to beat you, did you see any other policemen that day, the 12th
25 of August, 2001?
1 A. Yes, we saw.
2 Q. And where did you see these other policemen?
3 A. While running towards Radisani I saw two policeman. Then I lost
4 my consciousness when I was hit by the bullet.
5 Q. Okay. Thank you. What were those policemen wearing?
6 A. They were too far away. I just could see that they were
7 policemen. They had automatic rifles as well.
8 Q. Before the 12th of August, 2001, had you passed through any
9 check-points around the village of Ljuboten?
10 A. Yes. We regularly went through the check-point I signalled
11 there. I was a student and I had to go regularly through that
13 Q. And what uniforms, if any, did the policemen at these check-points
15 A. This kind of uniforms, the uniforms that are on the picture.
16 Q. Thank you.
17 MR. DOBBYN: At this point, Your Honours, I would like to show a
18 video-clip. This 65 ter number 309, the ERN is V000-3494. The clip I
19 would like to show starts at 1 minute 50 seconds and runs until 2 minutes
20 20 seconds.
21 Q. Mr. Hamiti, I would ask to you look very carefully at the screen.
22 A video-clip will be coming up and I would ask to you watch that very
24 [Videotape played]
25 MR. DOBBYN:
1 Q. Mr. Hamiti, do you know which date this video recording was made?
2 A. The day the events occurred, on August the 12th.
3 Q. And what does this video show?
4 A. The video shows us running away. Then it shows when they fired
5 upon us and when I was hit and when I fell down. The video shows this
6 very well.
7 Q. You say that "the video shows us running away." Who is the other
8 individual who's running down the hill with you?
9 A. Dilaver Fetahovski.
10 Q. Do you know whether or not there video has been shown on
11 Macedonian television?
12 A. I don't know.
13 MR. DOBBYN: Your Honours, at this time I would seek to tender
14 this evidence.
15 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.
16 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit P419, Your Honours.
17 MR. DOBBYN:
18 Q. Mr. Hamiti, in the Albanian language version of your state it says
19 that you were shot on the right side of your forehead, while in the
20 English language version it says you were shot on the left side of your
21 forehead. Could you clarify this and tell us what side of the forehead
22 the bullet hit?
23 A. The left side.
24 Q. And, Mr. Hamiti, could I ask you to lift up the fringe of your
1 Thank you.
2 MR. DOBBYN: And, Your Honours, for the record I'd ask it to
3 reflect that is shown the witness has lifted his hair, revealing a, for
4 want of a better word, a crater on the left side of his forehead.
5 Q. Now, the injury that you've just shown us, Mr. Hamiti, was this
6 caused by the bullet that struck you on 12th August 2001?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. In your state you describe after being hit by the bullet falling
9 unconscious and then when regaining consciousness finding yourself in
10 Skopje City Hospital.
11 MR. DOBBYN: And at this time, I would like to call up exhibit
12 P 00192 and I'd like to see page 6 of this exhibit which is ERN
13 N000-5719. And there is also in tab 4 of the witness binder.
14 Q. So if you would like to look at the document in tab 4, Mr. Hamiti.
15 A. [In English] Okay.
16 Q. This is a medical report from Skopje City Hospital. Mr. Hamiti,
17 do you see your name on the upper left-hand corner?
18 A. [Interpretation] Yes, I do.
19 Q. And the first line states: "On 12 August 2001 Ejup Ametov was
20 admitted to the clinic as an urgent case with a head and brain injury
21 caused by a projectile." Is this an accurate description of when you were
22 admitted to the hospital and the reason for your admission?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And in your statement and in the addendum to your statement you
25 have described the health problems that you have suffered as a result of
1 your head injury. You've stated that you faint every now and then.
2 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Mettraux.
3 MR. METTRAUX: I apologise, Your Honour, I didn't mean to
4 interrupt the question but it seems that the document is not the correct
5 document on the screen. I simply wanted to indicate that to my colleague.
6 MR. DOBBYN: Thank you for pointing that out, Mr. Mettraux. I was
7 actually looking at the document I had in tab 4. Thank you.
8 I believe we need page 6 to be shown on the screen, page 6 of that
9 particular exhibit.
10 JUDGE PARKER: This exhibit has only one page, Mr. Dobbyn. You
11 may have a wrong number.
12 MR. DOBBYN: Sorry, Your Honour, I understand it's my fault. I
13 asked for Exhibit P192 to be shown. I should have been asking for P220.
14 I apologise.
15 As the witness has spoken to that document, I will move on.
16 Q. Mr. Hamiti, you have stated that you faint every now and then. Do
17 you have a medical diagnosis for this condition?
18 A. Yes. After the injury, I got epilepsy and I go regularly to
19 medical checks every second or third month. And I pay all the bills
21 Q. Have you been told whether or not your epilepsy is related to your
22 head injury?
23 A. Yes, I have. It was caused by the injury.
24 Q. Since the 12th of August, 2001 until today, have you ever been
25 contacted by anyone from the Macedonian police or the Macedonian
1 government and asked about what happened to you and what took place in
2 Ljuboten on 10 to 12 August 2001?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Have you taken any steps yourself against the Macedonian police or
5 the Macedonian government to have someone held accountable for what
6 happened to you?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And could you please explain what you have done.
9 A. I have taken the state to court, because injustice was inflicted
10 to me.
11 Q. By saying you have taken the state to court, could you explain
13 A. I filed charges against the state because on the photograph it can
14 be clearly seen that I was a civilian, and the documents, all the
15 documents of it, I have taken also from the hospital, everything comes up
16 very clearly and have I filed charges against them, and it is in judicial
17 procedure now.
18 Q. Thank you.
19 MR. DOBBYN: I have no further questions at this time, Your
21 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Dobbyn, the document on the screen, I'm told is
22 not an exhibit. It's part of the 65 ter Exhibit 220. Do you want it to
23 become an exhibit in the trial?
24 MR. DOBBYN: Yes, Your Honour, I apologise, I do.
25 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.
1 Just this one page?
2 MR. DOBBYN: Yes.
3 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit P420, Your Honours.
4 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you, Mr. Dobbyn.
5 Mr. Mettraux.
6 MR. METTRAUX: Thank you, Your Honour.
7 Cross-examination by Mr. Mettraux:
8 Q. Good morning, Mr. Hamiti. My name is Guenael Mettraux and
9 together with my colleague Edina Residovic I'm appearing on behalf of
10 Mr. Boskoski.
11 Mr. Hamiti, we have been given a copy of your statement already
12 and I do not wish to go over the entirety of the information which you
13 have provided to the Prosecution and the Court. There is a number of
14 matter which I would like to clarify about the circumstances in which you
15 received this grave wound.
16 Am I correct to understand that because of the circumstances at
17 the time, the fear and also the commotion around you, you were in a great
18 of stress. Is that correct?
19 A. When arrived at the check-point, I saw these civilians and when I
20 saw them beating the people with -- together with the policemen, this is
21 why I started running. I started running towards Radisani, but instead of
22 going -- of taking the road, I went to Radisani. When I started running,
23 I didn't know where I was going. This is the truth.
24 Q. Is that correct as you were running your friend Dilaver Fetahovski
25 was a few metres behind you, 20 or so metres behind you?
1 A. As I told you, I was very confused. I don't know whether Dilaver
2 was behind me. I can only speak of myself. I started running. I
3 couldn't even see whether there was someone running behind me. I don't
4 know how much you can understand me.
5 Q. Is that correct because of the state of excitement you were not
6 able at the time to see where the shot had come from, the shot that hit
8 A. No, that's not correct. When I saw Dilaver being beaten up and
9 his father being beaten up, I was very frightened and confused. I started
10 running. I saw two policemen from my left side. When they started
11 shooting, I just heard the shot from automatic rifles. I couldn't hear
12 the bullet that hit me. I just fell on the ground and for two hours I
13 stayed there in this -- in this situation of coma.
14 Q. And these two policemen which you have just indicated, those are
15 the same policemen as you had mentioned to the Prosecution when you gave
16 your statement on the 9th of February of 2003. Is that correct?
17 A. Yes, they were.
18 Q. And in your statement, I believe you have indicated that those
19 people who you believe to be policemen were about 50 metres or so away
20 from you. Is that correct?
21 A. Approximately. As I told you, I cannot be precise. It was
22 approximately 50 metres. As I told you, I was very confused. I could
23 only see that they were policemen and they were carrying automatic rifles.
24 Q. I suppose that you will agree with me that Dilaver was running
25 behind you would also have been in a position to see these two men. Is
1 that correct?
2 A. Sir, I was telling you about myself. I couldn't see Dilaver and I
3 was in a state of coma for two hours. I'm describing to you my state.
4 And then the ambulance came and took me to the hospital in the town and I
5 was -- and I underwent an urgent surgery.
6 Q. Perhaps I can ask it to you that way. Was there any impediment or
7 any reason why Dilaver would not have seen these two policemen, in so far
8 as can you say?
9 A. I apologise, but I cannot speak in Dilaver's name. I can only
10 speak in my own name and describe to you my state and what I went
11 through. If you have questions for him, maybe it's better to ask him
13 Q. Is that correct, sir, that the reason you believed that these two
14 men were police officers were because of their uniforms, the uniforms they
15 were wearing. Is that correct?
16 A. You could see their uniforms very well. And I saw them with
17 automatic rifles. I don't know how clear I am, but they had automatic
19 Q. Is that also correct that on that day you've indicated to the
20 Prosecution that you only saw one man wearing what you believe to be a
21 police patch and that was in the vicinity of the check-point? Is that
22 what you told the Prosecutor?
23 A. Just a moment, please. I will explain in detail.
24 This one policeman, this is the one who took us from Buzalak of
25 Radisani up to the Macedonian civilians. This is the one -- when we were
1 running in the direction of Radisani, these two persons were other
2 policemen, not the same with the one I mentioned before.
3 Q. That's correct, sir, that this is the way the matter was
4 understood as well.
5 Is that correct then that you have indicated to the Prosecution
6 that you only saw one man wearing a patch which you identified as a police
7 patch or police insignia and that was in the vicinity of the check-point?
8 In other words, you did not identify any patches or insignia on the two
9 other policemen which were by your side as you were running. Is that
11 A. They were far, but I saw them carrying automatic rifle, and you
12 can tell police uniforms. The police that was with us at Buzalak of
13 Radisani, he was there and he was also wearing automatic rifle, but his
14 patch, I could see, and "policija" was written on his patch.
15 Q. Is that correct, sir, that you were interviewed by representative
16 of the Prosecution earlier that year in June, in the village of Ljuboten.
17 Is that correct?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And do you recall the representative of the Prosecution showing
20 you a number of pictures during that interview?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And do you recall that one of the pictures that were shown to you
23 were pictures of patches, police patches. Do you recall that?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And do you recall saying this to the Prosecution upon being shown
1 those pictures: "I can see these are police patches but I cannot be
2 certain that these are the same as the patch I saw on the policeman
3 uniform on the day I was shot."
4 Do you recall that?
5 A. Just a moment, sir. These two policemen that I mentioned, they
6 were far, quite far, 50 to 100 metres far, and I could not see their
7 uniforms clearly, but the policeman who was with us previously, he was
8 very near, and I could see his patch and what was written on it.
9 Q. And is that correct, sir, that in fact are you not certain whether
10 the two men who you saw by your side were policemen or members of the
11 Macedonian army. Is that correct?
12 A. I couldn't tell whether they were soldiers or policemen, but they
13 were wearing uniforms and I described you my state of mind when I started
14 running. I was completely confused and out of myself and I couldn't tell
16 Q. Sir, do you know a person named Saqir Fetahovski, do you know him?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. And Mr. Fetahovski is a fellow villager. Is that correct?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And on that day he was also present with you near to the
21 check-points which you have indicated earlier today. Is that right?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And he would have also seen you run away from this check-point.
24 Is that correct?
25 A. I don't know. Ask him.
1 Q. If Mr. Fetahovski were to say that the people whom you saw shoot
2 in your directions were soldiers and not police officers, you would have
3 no reason to disbelieve him. Is that correct?
4 A. I told you that I wasn't quite conscious about my deeds. I could
5 only see them wearing uniforms, police uniforms. Maybe he was in position
6 to see them better than me, but I doubt, because he was quite severely
7 beaten too.
8 Q. Is that correct, sir, however, that are you not certain that the
9 shot that hit you had in fact come from either of these two men. Is that
11 A. I don't know precisely who fired, but I could hear the sound of
12 the shot. I don't know how clear I am. I could hear the shot coming from
13 the automatic rifle.
14 Q. But you are not certain that the shot in question came from either
15 of those two persons. You did not have the time to look whether it could
16 have came from elsewhere. Is that correct?
17 A. Of course.
18 MR. METTRAUX: Well, Your Honour, I think in that case, I have no
19 further question.
20 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you very much, Mr. Mettraux.
21 Mr. Apostolski.
22 MR. METTRAUX: And I'm grateful to the witness. Thank you.
23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.
24 MR. APOSTOLSKI: [Interpretation] Good morning, Your Honours, good
25 morning, Witness.
1 Cross-examination by Mr. Apostolski:
2 Q. [Interpretation] My name is Antonio Apostolski, and with my
3 colleague Jasmina Zivkovic, I appear for Mr. Johan Tarculovski.
4 Is it correct that you completed your primary education in your
5 own village, Ljuboten, and in your mother tongue, in Albanian?
6 A. Yes, that's correct.
7 Q. After that you completed your secondary education in Skopje?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. When you gave your statement to the Office of the Prosecutor, you
10 were a student at the pedagogy faculty in Skopje. Is that correct?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Can you please tell me when did you enrol in this faculty?
13 A. Yes. I enrolled in the academic year 2000/2001.
14 Q. Is it correct that you carried out your studies in the Albanian
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Thank you.
18 You said that you passed by several check-points. Is it correct
19 that there was a check-point on the last bus-stop of bus number 57 in
20 Radisani neighbourhood?
21 A. Excuse me, sir, but I'm not speaking about Radisani. I'm talking
22 here about the road that links Ljuboten and Skopje. On this road, there
23 was only one check-point and this check-point was located at Cezma e
24 Rizvanit, and you may very well now about this location because this
25 check-point was set up well ahead before the Ljuboten events.
1 Q. I'm not asking you about your statement but in general,
2 considering the fact that you travelled a lot in that region, is it
3 correct that there was a check-point at the last bus-stop of bus number 57
4 at Radisani neighbourhood? Are you familiar with this fact?
5 A. I went by car through our road. I didn't travel on bus and that's
6 why I am not familiar where this check-point was. I'm not ...
7 Q. Witness, I'm asking in general terms, not about the concrete
8 dates. I'm asking you about the whole period, July, August, since you
9 travelled frequently from Ljuboten to Skopje. During this period of time,
10 did you see this check-point?
11 A. And I think I'm explaining it very well. Maybe you are familiar
12 with the road that links Ljuboten and Skopje, not the road, the old road
13 that links Ljuboten with Skopje through Ljubanci. And this was the only
14 check-point that I saw on that road, and we regularly passed by this
15 check-point. I never went to Radishan and I always travelled by car. I
16 don't know how clear I am, and I'm speaking about the year 2001.
17 Q. Okay. Thank you.
18 MR. APOSTOLSKI: [Interpretation] I have no further questions.
19 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you very much, Mr. Apostolski.
20 Mr. Dobbyn.
21 MR. DOBBYN: Just briefly, Your Honours.
22 Re-examination by Mr. Dobbyn:
23 Q. Mr. Hamiti, you described the check-point on the road between
24 Ljuboten and Skopje. And what name did you refer to that check-point by?
25 A. We used to call the check-point Cezma e Rizvanit. There is a water
1 fountain nearby called Cezma e Rizvanit. And that's how we called this
3 Q. And is this the same check-point that was in the photo earlier
4 that you were approaching on the 12th of August when you were beaten?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. So am I correct in my understanding that this check-point is
7 located in an area which is between Buzalak and between Kodra e Zajmit?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And you also described earlier that you passed through this
10 check-point on several occasions before the 12th of August as you
11 travelled to Skopje for school.
12 A. Yes, I was a student, and I regularly attended school.
13 THE INTERPRETER: Lectures, correction.
14 MR. DOBBYN:
15 Q. On these occasions when you passed through the check-point, who
16 manned the check-point? Was it police or was it army?
17 A. The police. The police and reservists that were there.
18 Q. Thank you.
19 MR. DOBBYN: I have no further questions, Your Honour.
20 Q. Thank you for your time, Mr. Hamiti.
21 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you, Mr. Dobbyn.
22 You will be pleased to know, Mr. Hamiti, that that concludes the
23 questions that will be asked of you. The Chamber is very grateful indeed
24 for your assistance, for the trouble you've been to come here and give
25 evidence, and you are now, of course, able to leave and return to your
1 home and normal activities.
2 We will be adjourning shortly and then the court officer will show
3 you out.
4 So thank you, indeed.
5 If there is no other matter.
6 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.
7 JUDGE PARKER: Yes, Mr. Saxon is standing with purpose.
8 MR. SAXON: The only purpose, Your Honour, is to simply confirm
9 that the Prosecution did not anticipate that this witness would go so
10 quickly and therefore we do not have another witness to call this morning.
11 JUDGE PARKER: We anticipated that from what you had said,
12 Mr. Saxon, and we therefore continue on Monday.
13 The Monday session, I believe, has been moved to the afternoon at
14 2.15, in case everybody had not caught up with that.
15 So we adjourn now and resume on Monday.
16 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 10.17 a.m.,
17 to be reconvened on Monday, the 3rd day of September,
18 2007, at 2.15 p.m.