1 Tuesday, 2 July 2002
2 [Open session]
3 --- Upon commencing at 2.17 p.m.
4 [The accused entered court]
5 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Madam Registrar, good afternoon to you. If
6 you could call the case, please.
7 THE REGISTRAR: Yes, Your Honour. This is the case number,
8 IT-99-36-T, the Prosecutor versus Radoslav Brdjanin and Momir Talic.
9 JUDGE AGIUS: Mr. Brdjanin, good afternoon to you. Can you hear
10 me in a language that you can understand?
11 THE ACCUSED BRDJANIN: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your
12 Honour. I can hear you and I understand you.
13 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you. And you may sit down.
14 General Talic, good afternoon to you. Can you hear me in a
15 language that you can understand?
16 THE ACCUSED TALIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honours.
17 I can hear you in a language that I understand.
18 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you. General Talic, you may sit down.
19 Appearances for the Prosecution.
20 MS. RICHTEROVA: Anna Richterova and Julian Nicholls for the
21 Prosecution, assisted by Denise Gustin, case manager.
22 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, madam, and good afternoon to you.
23 Appearances for Radoslav Brdjanin.
24 MR. TRBOJEVIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honours. I'm
25 Milan Trbojevic. Lead counsel for Mr. Brdjanin is present, Mr. John
1 Ackerman; and our assistant Marela Jevtovic.
2 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, and good afternoon to you.
3 Appearances for General Talic.
4 MR. TRBOJEVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.
5 MR. ZECEVIC: Good afternoon, Your Honours. Slobodan Zecevic and
6 Natasha Ivanovic-Fauveau for General Talic.
7 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, sir. Good afternoon to you.
8 Now, before we -- yes, Mr. Ackerman.
9 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, the Prosecution filed their
10 designation of 92 bis, and I can respond orally if that's acceptable to
11 Your Honours.
12 JUDGE AGIUS: I was going to bring -- draw your attention to it,
13 because I was informed rightly or wrongly, I don't know, that your time
14 limit had lapsed.
15 MR. ACKERMAN: Well, I'll do whatever you want me to do, Your
17 JUDGE AGIUS: No go -- go ahead. Unless there is an objection
18 from the Prosecution. But in any case, I would grant you an extension of
19 a few minutes to respond to it.
20 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, we accept with regard -- and agree to
21 92 bis with regard to the following.
22 JUDGE AGIUS: Wait. One moment.
23 MR. ACKERMAN: Are you ready?
24 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes.
25 MR. ACKERMAN: 7.192.
1 JUDGE AGIUS: You agree to this.
2 MR. ACKERMAN: Yes. 7.163, 7.107, 7.191. They were numbered
3 improperly in the Prosecution's annex, Your Honour, so the numbers I'm
4 giving you are the correct ones.
5 And then we oppose 7.101, 7.117, unless they're brought here for
6 cross-examination. That's all.
7 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. I thank you, Mr. Ackerman.
8 And from General Talic's part, we have received the -- your
9 document. It's still in French. I have gone through it very briefly.
10 We'll wait for the English translation to be a hundred per cent sure that
11 I have read it well, and then we'll come down with a decision pretty soon,
12 I would suppose.
13 MR. ZECEVIC: If the Court pleases, may I inform the Court that we
14 have filed the motion today as -- as we promised yesterday about the
15 closed session as well.
16 JUDGE AGIUS: The protective measures?
17 MR. ZECEVIC: Yes, the protective measures.
18 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you. That hasn't been brought to our
19 attention as of yet.
20 MR. ZECEVIC: Yes. It was filed just a couple of hours ago.
21 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. So I thank you both.
22 MS. RICHTEROVA: Your Honour.
23 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes.
24 MS. RICHTEROVA: I must apologise, but when we filed that motion
25 we made two errors in numberings. When we submitted the list of our
1 witnesses --
2 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, yes, yes.
3 MS. RICHTEROVA: -- we made the corrections. So I only want to
4 make it clear that the witness who was filed under number 7.117 is in
5 reality 7.107. And the witness who was filed under 7.107 is in reality
7 MR. ACKERMAN: Okay. Let's go into private session and I'll say
9 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Inneke, please could you ask my secretary to
10 bring me back the lists of witnesses I had in my green file for Kljuc
11 municipality, the one which was filed yesterday. And tell her to leave it
12 always there. I told her, but it doesn't seem -- it seems to go in from
13 one ear straight out through the next.
14 [Trial Chamber and legal officer confer]
15 JUDGE AGIUS: Madam Richterova, I think one --
16 MS. RICHTEROVA: I must apologise.
17 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. You've mixed -- you've mixed it up.
18 MS. RICHTEROVA: Yes. I've completely mixed it up. You are
19 right. And I apologise --
20 JUDGE AGIUS: All right. According to my records, what was
21 7.107 --
22 MS. RICHTEROVA: -- is in reality 7.117.
23 JUDGE AGIUS: Becomes 7.117.
24 MS. RICHTEROVA: Yes. And what was 7.106 is 7.107.
25 JUDGE AGIUS: Which mixes things up.
1 Mr. Ackerman, bear with me, please. And Mr. Zecevic, do take
2 note - and Madam Fauveau - of what I'm going to say, because it may have a
3 bearing on your response, in as far as each of the witnesses were
4 indicated, because this may -- may change something.
5 I have it here you had submitted first as 7.106 a certain witness
6 under the Rule 92 bis rule. Okay? 7.106 I am told now becomes 7.107.
7 But 7.106 -- when you say 7.107, you were referring to the new 7.107,
8 Mr. Ackerman. No? According to yesterday's list.
9 MR. ACKERMAN: Yes, Your Honour. What -- this is getting
10 beyond -- I think for the record we should go to private session and let
11 me say the names of the ones that I oppose for 92 bis.
12 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes.
13 MR. ACKERMAN: So there's no confusion.
14 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Let's go to private session, please, because
15 otherwise we are getting confused.
16 [Private session]
14 [Open session]
15 JUDGE AGIUS: And I promised you yesterday two things on behalf of
16 the Chamber. One was that we would take up the matter of the way sittings
17 were being proposed starting from August till December, namely in relation
18 to what appeared to be a preponderance of sittings in the afternoon --
19 sittings in the afternoon. We have brought that up -- we have studied it,
20 going back to January, to when we started the trial, and making a sort of
21 a comparative exercise with the other five pending cases, and we have
22 brought the matter up with who we thought we ought to bring it. There
23 will -- I expect -- there will be some kind of response later on. I'm
24 pretty sure there will be some adjustments to the timetable as -- as it
25 shows now, some amendments to it, also because there are some obvious
1 mistakes. I mean, for example, Stakic first -- last week of August,
2 Stakic appears twice and at the same time sitting 12 -- sitting 10 times
3 in one week but always in the same time, from 9.00 to quarter to 2.00. We
4 have obviously been omitted in one particular week, and Martinovic case
5 has been duplicated in that week. So there are some mistakes. But apart
6 from those -- from the rectification of those mistakes, there is going to
7 be some adjustment to the timetable, which we will report back to you the
8 moment or as soon as practicable after we get the final response. That's
9 number one.
10 Second, you will recall, Mr. Ackerman, Mr. Zecevic, that you had
11 asked more or less sittings to be -- to take place on a four-weeks on,
12 one-week off pattern, which was objected to by the Prosecution. That
13 basically meant that you were asking for three breaks before the Christmas
14 recess, which included one week that we had indicated to you. The
15 Prosecution was preferring a nine weeks on, one week off, and that would
16 have meant two breaks, including the one which we were suggesting to you.
17 We have studied it carefully. More or less the situation -- the position
18 seems to be the following: That we have not been working on a basis of
19 four weeks on, one week off, but we also haven't been working on a basis
20 of nine weeks on and one week off. More or less we have been pretty much
21 flexible, inserting a break where we thought it would be fit and proper
22 to. And what we are proposing to you is that we will have between now and
23 the Christmas recess two breaks which, however, will be longer than the
24 usual week. In other words, the way we are approaching it is the way we
25 have approached it in the past. We will take a Friday before the
1 Saturday, which will give you the benefit of three more days -- two full
2 weekends plus a Friday before, which would make it to a total of ten days
3 off, and that will be the first one. The second one will start on a
4 Saturday and will finish on a Monday; in other words, we will start on a
5 Tuesday, which would again give you a ten-day break -- give you and us. I
6 mean, it's -- so the position is as follows: The breaks will be on -- we
7 will resume on the 26th of August, as you know. We will then have
8 practically five full weeks - five full weeks - but we will stop for a
9 break on the 27th of September, which is a Friday, resuming on the 7th of
10 October. In other words, the break will be from the 27th of September
11 till the 6th of October, both days included - both days included - we will
12 be issuing a scheduling order in due course.
13 Then we will be sitting for six full weeks, and we will have a
14 break from the 9th of November through the 18th of November, both days
15 included. Then we will sit for three and a half weeks, at the end of
16 which we'll have the Christmas recess. And that, I think, strikes a
17 balance between the respective positions that had been taken.
18 This works out as follows, actually, that between you -- excluding
19 Saturdays and Sundays - excluding Saturdays and Sundays, I'm not counting
20 those - between now and the last day of the year, the 31st of December,
21 there are technically 92 working days - 92 working days - of which one is
22 a UN holiday, two are taken for plenary, four for court maintenance, 12
23 recess -- official recess, 12 break -- days off that we are allowing, and
24 that would bring us to a total of sitting days of 61, which more or less
25 is -- corresponds to what the other Trial Chambers will be having.
1 Actually, it's a little -- even a little bit less than what the other
2 Chambers will be having. So that's the situation: 92 days, of which 61
3 will be working days, sitting days, 12 break, 12 recess, four court
4 maintenance, two plenary, one UN holiday. All right? We will be issuing
5 the appropriate scheduling order later on during the week. I hope that is
7 I think now we will need to prepare the room for the closed
8 session. Yes, please. We'll move into a closed session.
9 [Closed session]
11 Pages 7783-7852 –Redacted. Closed Session.
7 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned
8 at 6.29 p.m., to be reconvened on Wednesday
9 the 3rd day of July, 2002, at 2.15 p.m.