1 Tuesday, 9 July 2002
2 [Open session]
3 --- Upon commencing at 2.21 p.m.
4 [The accused entered court]
5 JUDGE AGIUS: Sorry for the delay, but I was kept elsewhere. So
6 Madam Registrar, you can call the case, please.
7 THE REGISTRAR: Good afternoon. This is case number IT-99-36-T,
8 the Prosecutor versus Radoslav Brdjanin and Momir Talic.
9 JUDGE AGIUS: Mr. Brdjanin, good afternoon to you. Can you hear
10 me in a language that you can understand?
11 THE ACCUSED BRDJANIN: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your
12 Honours. I can hear you and I understand you.
13 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you. You may sit down.
14 General Talic, same question to you, and good afternoon to you.
15 Can you me in a language that you can understand?
16 THE ACCUSED TALIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honours.
17 I can hear you in a language that I understand.
18 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you. And good afternoon to you.
19 Appearances for the Prosecution.
20 MR. CAYLEY: Yes, may it please Your Honours. My name is Andrew
21 Cayley. I appear on behalf of the Prosecutor. You'll see that Ms. Korner
22 is behind me today. She is leaving at ten to 3.00, Your Honours, in order
23 to attend the first appearance of Mr. Gruban. I'm also appearing with
24 Mr. Julian Nicholls and our case manager Ms. Gustin. Thank you.
25 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you. And good afternoon to you all.
1 Appearances for Radoslav Brdjanin.
2 MR. ACKERMAN: Good afternoon, Your Honours. I'm John Ackerman.
3 I appear with my co-counsel Milan Trbojevic, and my assistant -- our
4 assistant Marela Jevtovic.
5 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you. And good afternoon to you all.
6 Appearance for General Talic.
7 MR. ZECEVIC: Good afternoon, Your Honours. Slobodan Zecevic and
8 Natasha Ivanovic-Fauveau for General Talic.
9 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you. And good afternoon to you both.
10 Before we bring in the witness, are there any preliminaries?
11 Yes. I see -- I recognise Mr. Zecevic.
12 MR. ZECEVIC: Your Honours, very briefly. It's been almost more
13 than two weeks since the Defence of Mr. Brdjanin, as well as the Defence
14 of Mr. Talic, jointly requested the so-called AID documents. I don't know
15 whether you remember that.
16 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, of course I do.
17 MR. ZECEVIC: At that time -- at that time we were told that the
18 four boxes are in the -- are with the Prosecutor's office.
19 JUDGE AGIUS: They're being sorted out, yes.
20 MR. ZECEVIC: And it's being sorted out. It takes a bit -- a
21 longer time than I expected from us for the sorting out of the material,
22 so we are asking whether we are going to get the material or if -- if it
23 cannot be sorted, maybe the Prosecutor can disclose the whole four boxes
24 to us. Thank you, Your Honours.
25 JUDGE AGIUS: Who is going to answer that? Mr. Cayley.
1 MR. CAYLEY: I'll answer it, Your Honour.
2 First of all, a meeting is actually planned this week with the
3 team that is dealing with it. It is a large quantity of material. What
4 I can say to the Court, there are a number of issues which I can't discuss
5 in this courtroom which are relevant to the disclosure of that material
6 that don't just concern this trial but concern other matters. And that
7 has to be discussed with the senior management within the Office of the
9 What I can also say from what has been initially told to me about
10 these documents -- and my understanding is none of it has yet been
11 translated. Maybe a small proportion. But I have seen no translations.
12 All I have had is a summary placed in front of me by the trial attorney on
13 another team which indicates that it doesn't actually have relevance to
14 this case. Nevertheless we are having a meeting at the end of this week
15 with that particular team that is concerned with these materials in order
16 to discuss the disclosure of that -- or the potential disclosure of that
17 material in this case.
18 JUDGE AGIUS: So we'll -- we'll take if the matter up again next
19 week, Mr. Zecevic.
20 MR. ZECEVIC: Yes, Your Honours. But if I may very shortly
21 comment. We're willing to accept the material under the confidentiality
22 rules of course, which we are not to disclose it to anybody else, which is
23 of course, in my mind very understandable. And I assumed from the very
24 beginning this material would be disclosed according to this practice.
25 As well, the other thing is we are completely fine that we receive
1 it in B/C/S. We don't need the translations. Thank you.
2 JUDGE AGIUS: I don't know if Mr. Ackerman would share that --
3 that statement.
4 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, I do agree with what Mr. Zecevic has
5 said. The thing that concerns me is I am not comfortable with having the
6 Prosecutor make -- make the sole decision as to what is relevant and
7 what's not relevant.
8 JUDGE AGIUS: But for the --
9 MR. ACKERMAN: I'd be willing to have you do it in camera.
10 JUDGE AGIUS: Forget about that, Mr. Ackerman I mean, I was going
11 to say that myself.
12 MR. ACKERMAN: All right.
13 JUDGE AGIUS: That's not --
14 MR. ACKERMAN: Thank you.
15 JUDGE AGIUS: Otherwise what I am more interested in is whether
16 you expect to have these documents also translated into -- into English or
17 whether you are happy with having them in B/C/S.
18 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, considering the pressure that's on the
19 translation department here, I don't think it makes sense to send all
20 these documents off to get them translated into English. I think if we
21 were giving that batch of documents in B/C/S, we could very quickly go
22 through them and pull out any that we thought ought to be translated and
23 take a lot of pressure off translation department in that regard.
24 JUDGE AGIUS: Mr. Cayley.
25 MR. CAYLEY: Well, I think the suggestion that Mr. Ackerman has
1 made is good one. We disclose it to you and let the Judges decide whether
2 or not it's relevant.
3 JUDGE AGIUS: Unfortunately, it is -- I mean, while Mr. Zecevic
4 knows the language and Mr. Ackerman doesn't know the language but he's got
5 two assistants who know the language, I can't rely on Judge Taya for
6 sure, and I can't rely on Judge Janu either for sure, and we are -- we are
7 not going -- we don't have the facility of someone.
8 MR. CAYLEY: But I caveat all of this, Your Honour. At the moment
9 there are other issues involving this material which I cannot discuss in
10 the court and it has nothing to do particularly with the disclosure, which
11 we have to clear before --
12 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay.
13 MR. CAYLEY: -- we can do anything further.
14 JUDGE AGIUS: Let's come back to the subject next -- next week --
15 mid-next week at the latest. Okay?
16 That being so, I think we can draw the curtains down and prepare
17 the room for the next witness, BT21. And we'll also go into closed
18 session. Is that correct, Mr. Cayley?
19 MR. CAYLEY: That's correct, Your Honour.
20 [Closed session]
13 Pages 8183-8264 – redacted – closed session
12 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned
13 at 6.37 p.m., to be reconvened on Monday,
14 the 15th day of July, 2002, at 9.00 a.m.