1 Monday, 22 July 2002
2 [Open session]
3 --- Upon commencing at 2.19 p.m.
4 [The accused entered court]
5 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Madam Registrar, you may proceed with calling
6 the case. Thank you.
7 THE REGISTRAR: Yes, Your Honour. This is the case number,
8 IT-99-36-T, the Prosecutor versus Radoslav Brdjanin and Momir Talic.
9 JUDGE AGIUS: Mr. Brdjanin, good afternoon to you. Can you hear
10 me in a language that you can understand?
11 THE ACCUSED BRDJANIN: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your
12 Honours. I can hear you and I understand you.
13 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you.
14 I see that General Talic is already at attention. Good afternoon
15 to you. Can you hear me in a language that you can understand?
16 THE ACCUSED TALIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honours.
17 Yes, I can.
18 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, General Talic. You may sit down.
19 Appearances for the Prosecution.
20 MS. KORNER: Joanna Korner, Andrew Cayley, assisted by Denise
21 Gustin, case manager. Good afternoon, Your Honours.
22 JUDGE AGIUS: Good afternoon to you.
23 Appearance for Radoslav Brdjanin.
24 MR. ACKERMAN: Good afternoon, Your Honours. I'm John Ackerman.
25 I'm with Milan Trbojevic and Marela Jevtovic.
1 JUDGE AGIUS: And good afternoon to you.
2 And appearances for General Talic.
3 MR. ZECEVIC: Good afternoon, Your Honours. Slobodan Zecevic,
4 Natasha Ivanovic-Fauveau for General Talic.
5 JUDGE AGIUS: And good afternoon to you too.
6 Any interesting preliminaries?
7 MS. KORNER: Well, it depends on your definition of
9 One is, can I raise the timing aspect again, because we've
10 arranged for a witness from the Kljuc municipality to be here to testify
11 on Thursday. Now, I don't know whether we'd all forgotten or whether it
12 was a new arrangement, but we're not sitting tomorrow until quarter to
13 4.00 on this case.
14 JUDGE AGIUS: Tomorrow -- yeah, that's because I have -- I don't
15 think it's quarter to 4.00. The -- the Status Conference in Nikolic I
16 estimate will only last, I suppose, a few minutes. There is practically
17 two very minor things. It's more of a procedural necessity than anything
18 else. And I think it should be over in not more than half an hour. But
19 then I am advised that they need another half an hour to prepare the
20 Chamber -- or the courtroom for the next. So I reckon we should be ready
21 by 3.15.
22 MS. KORNER: Yes. Your Honour, what it said on the list -- I've
23 been -- definitely was 15.45. But if Your Honour thinks 3.15 --
24 JUDGE AGIUS: I would prepare -- everyone prepared for 3.15,
25 maximum 3.30.
1 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, it's just we've again been discussing
2 how long this witness will take. Madam Fauveau will certainly take all of
3 this afternoon's session and part of tomorrow's apparently.
4 Mr. Ackerman, I don't know with the extra added half hour tomorrow?
5 MR. ACKERMAN: It's a little bit difficult to tell, Your Honour,
6 but it appears that I would go through most of the next day if not all of
7 it. So that would mean that I would have what was left of Madam Fauveau's
8 time tomorrow plus probably all of the next day. I just don't know.
9 It's -- I could finish quicker than that. It's difficult for me to tell.
10 JUDGE AGIUS: Tomorrow the situation -- the position is as
11 follows, because I'm even saying 30 minutes. Basically there's nothing to
12 discuss, because there is a pending judgement which is -- will not be
13 handed down tomorrow but will be handed down pretty soon and we just have
14 to make that known. And then make sure that the accused is -- is okay.
15 Otherwise, I mean -- and there's a question of nothing else, basically.
16 So it might also -- the last time it was over in 15 minutes, the last
17 Status Conference. So this could well happen more or less in the same
19 If you are prepared to cooperate to the extent to make yourself
20 available, say, at even 3.00 and possibly try to start 3.00 tomorrow, that
21 would save us some time and then we'll try and make an effort, all of us.
22 MR. ACKERMAN: That's fine. We can all -- we can all do that.
23 Our only concern and we were talking about it before you came in, is
24 we do not want to bring this second witness here and not finish him by
25 close of business Friday. That's the thing we're concerned about.
1 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes.
2 MR. ACKERMAN: And it's a legitimate concern.
3 JUDGE AGIUS: Oh, yeah, it's definitely a legitimate concern.
4 MS. KORNER: Well, Your Honour, it doesn't seem to me that we've
5 really got much further. Given that we've got extra time, from what Your
6 Honour is saying, an extra half hour, it looks like it's still worth
7 keeping the witness. Because we'd have to stop the witness from coming
8 now if there was a real prospect that this witness --
9 JUDGE AGIUS: I would agree to that, I mean, because that's --
10 today is Monday -- Tuesday --
11 MS. KORNER: Yes. Mr. Ackerman's original estimate was about a
12 session to cross-examine. That's why we got a shortish witness from Kljuc
13 to come up.
14 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. I would go for that --
15 MS. KORNER: Well, I would -- I think from what I understand from
16 Mr. Nicholls, who's going to be calling the witness, it should be fairly
17 short. So I think we better try and do it.
18 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay.
19 MS. KORNER: Rather than wasting two days.
20 JUDGE AGIUS: All right.
21 MS. KORNER: The second matter, Your Honour, very briefly: By
22 chance I was looking through an old transcript and saw a discussion about
23 reciprocal disclosure so I thought I would just gently raise that again so
24 that it's on the record, as the Americans are very keen on it, that we
25 haven't had any documents for some time that the Defence propose to use.
1 Mr. Ackerman in fact tells me that it's likely we'll be getting some in
2 the near future, but I raise it so that it's a live issue again. And it's
3 particular because Madam Fauveau proposes to use a document today which
4 she assures us she's given to us in January, and I'm sure she's right.
5 But it's not one that we've used before.
6 JUDGE AGIUS: All right. Thank you. That, I suppose, has been
7 taken note of by the two Defence teams and will be acted upon as and when
9 I thank you. The members of the audience are going to be
10 disappointed - only two - but it's still a disappointment because we will
11 go into closed session now. So you will not be in a position to follow
12 what's going to happen, the proceedings.
13 In the meantime, the usher will bring forward the witness and
14 Madam Fauveau --
15 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. I see -- is it -- do you require us to be in
16 closed session? So we'll stay in open session for a while until
17 Mr. Ackerman raises --
18 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, we've given to the registry today a
19 packet of documents --
20 JUDGE AGIUS: We are still in closed session. Wait one moment,
21 Mr. Ackerman.
22 MR. ACKERMAN: Okay. No it says open session.
23 JUDGE AGIUS: Now it's open.
24 MR. ACKERMAN: We've given a packet of documents which we've
25 marked Exhibit DB94.
1 JUDGE AGIUS: The usher can bring forward the witness in the
2 meantime, please.
3 MR. ACKERMAN: DB -- DB 94. There's a series of documents and
4 what these are, are the Dzonlic documents that were turned over to us by
5 the Prosecutor. We've sent them to CLSS, they've been translated and now
6 we've given them to the registry, and we'll just file them all as 94,
7 Exhibit 94.
8 JUDGE AGIUS: And we'll go into closed session once more, please.
9 [Closed session]
11 Page 8667-8736 Redacted. Closed session.
12 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned
13 at 6.32 p.m., to be reconvened on Tuesday,
14 the 23rd day of July, 2002, at 2.15 p.m.