Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 8961

1 Monday, 26 August 2002

2 [Open session]

3 [The accused entered court]

4 --- Upon commencing at 2.16 p.m.

5 JUDGE AGIUS: Can you call the case, please, Madam Registrar.

6 THE REGISTRAR: Yes, Your Honour. This is the case number,

7 IT-99-36-T, the Prosecutor versus Radoslav Brdjanin and Momir Talic.

8 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, Mr. Brdjanin, good afternoon to you.

9 THE ACCUSED BRDJANIN: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your

10 Honour.

11 JUDGE AGIUS: Can you hear me in a language that you can

12 understand?

13 THE ACCUSED BRDJANIN: [Interpretation] I can hear you and

14 understand you.

15 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you. You may sit down.

16 General Talic, good afternoon to you. Can you hear me in a

17 language that you can understand?

18 THE ACCUSED TALIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honours.

19 I can hear you in a language I understand.

20 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you. You may sit down.

21 Appearances for the Prosecution.

22 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, here we go again. Joanna Korner,

23 together with Anna Richterova, assisted by case manager who is standing in

24 for Ms. Gustin, Mr. Hasan Younis. And good afternoon to you Your

25 Honours.

Page 8962

1 JUDGE AGIUS: Good afternoon to you.

2 Appearances for Radoslav Brdjanin.

3 MR. ACKERMAN: Good afternoon, Your Honours. I'm John Ackerman.

4 I'm here with Milan Trbojevic, my co-counsel, and Marela Jevtovic. Nice

5 to be back.

6 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, and good afternoon to you.

7 Appearances for General Talic.

8 MR. ZECEVIC: Good afternoon, Your Honours. Slobodan Zecevic and

9 Ms. Natasha Fauveau assisted by our case manager, Ms. Tatjana Cmeric for

10 General Talic. Thank you.

11 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you. And good afternoon to you too.

12 Welcome back. I hope you have had a good and relaxing break.

13 MS. KORNER: Apart from the weather, Your Honour.

14 JUDGE AGIUS: Well, I -- I can't complain on my part.

15 MS. KORNER: We do all think we should have gone to Malta for the

16 holiday.

17 JUDGE AGIUS: It was splendid this time. And not too hot. But

18 anyway after a month you get a little bit sick and tired of it because it

19 tends to be too hot. But coming back, I came for lightning and thunder

20 and lightning on Tuesday morning. It was -- anyway, welcome back.

21 And before I ask you whether you have any preliminaries, I just

22 have some very brief information to give you, and that is more or less I

23 wanted to inform you that all the motions -- all the pending motions - and

24 there aren't many but there are a few - are being dealt with. There is in

25 particular the one relating to 92 bis protective measures, the ones

Page 8963

1 relating to these two respectively are already drafted, in drafted form.

2 We will be meeting throughout this week to discuss them. And then we

3 should be in a position to hand down the decisions in the course of this

4 week, not necessarily at the end of the week, perhaps even -- even before,

5 so that -- I wanted you to know there are some other matters that will be

6 dealt with but not necessarily this week, one of which is the contempt of

7 court issue. And in that respect, I would like to have an indication from

8 all interested parties as to whether we can consider the written phase now

9 closed and proceed with our decision. I would like to have a feedback on

10 this matter. Perhaps I can ask Mr. Ackerman to refer this to his

11 colleague. I would imagine that the written phase, written pleadings

12 phase is concluded as well. I mean --

13 MS. KORNER: Well, Your Honour, I have to say I haven't yet -- I

14 only -- like Your Honour, I came back in the midst of this downpour on

15 Saturday and I haven't had an opportunity to go through all the various

16 documents. But I noticed that Mr. Shellow had sent in what purported to

17 be a response to our simple indication of what the legal researchers had

18 shown, which in fact is a legal -- it's an argument, and it's an argument,

19 as I say, when Mr. Shellow appeared that really should only have been

20 raised in the event that there was a full hearing of contempt. I mean,

21 this is one of the problems. So I'm not sure how Your Honour is going to

22 treat that.

23 JUDGE AGIUS: I haven't gone through that document at yet --

24 MS. KORNER: No.

25 JUDGE AGIUS: -- to be sincere with you. The reason is that what

Page 8964

1 had already come in before or until the time of my departure, end of July,

2 I took with me to Malta to read. What was introduced after that, after

3 then, I gave instructions to keep here, also because I don't -- in summer

4 I don't reside in my usual residence, and I didn't want to have --

5 MS. KORNER: I'm sorry, Your Honour. I'm having difficulty to

6 hear what Your Honour said, because I can hear some sort of commentary

7 going on.

8 Oh, of course it's for the Milosevic trial. That's what's

9 happening.

10 JUDGE AGIUS: I see.

11 MS. KORNER: Thank you very much, Mr. Ackerman.

12 JUDGE AGIUS: Anyway, that part of the documents I haven't gone

13 through as yet. There are two sets, I think, of documents that I've still

14 got to read. I had them filed this morning, but I will be going through

15 them in the course of this week. I don't -- I haven't had time to consult

16 my two colleagues as to whether they have read these documents. I don't

17 know what the position is, but we will -- I think from what I could see, I

18 think I should consider -- we should consider the written pleadings phase

19 to have come to an end, to have been concluded.

20 MS. KORNER: Well, that's -- Your Honour, that's the only reason

21 I'm raising it, because what Mr. Shellow has done in my opinion is advance

22 an argument on the facts and on various aspects which if, as I said to

23 Your Honour at the time, this is to -- there is a sort of referral for

24 some sort of a hearing, that I would have answered, because there are

25 merits --

Page 8965

1 JUDGE AGIUS: Yeah, but I think, Ms. Korner, we had made ourselves

2 clear as to where the line of demarcation pertinent to this preliminary

3 hearing, sort of, where the boundaries were. And we do not intend to go

4 beyond those boundaries in any case.

5 MS. KORNER: Well, then I think the best thing would be if Your

6 Honour were to be -- Your Honours, I'm sorry, were to be given an

7 opportunity to look at what Mr. Shellow has.


9 MS. KORNER: And then if you would be kind enough to let us know

10 how you would treat that particular submission, which does not deal with

11 what were purely submissions of the law that we put before Your Honour

12 without, as we said in our motion, going into anything to do with the

13 merits or the facts.

14 JUDGE AGIUS: All right. More or less, that's it. If -- I'm just

15 asking. Initially way back in January of this year, you will recall that

16 there was an issue related to what would happen to a statement made to the

17 Prosecution by a witness who is now deceased. And we had agreed to have

18 that matter postponed -- the discussion on that matter postponed. What --

19 what is the position now?

20 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, the position is that, I think, both

21 ourselves and Madam Fauveau, whom it affects, thought it would be

22 appropriate to deal with it after Colonel Selak has testified.

23 JUDGE AGIUS: Still the same --

24 MS. KORNER: It's still the say. Which would be in relation to

25 the Prijedor chapter.

Page 8966

1 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. So any preliminaries? Mr. Ackerman.

2 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, I just wondered if I would have the

3 Court's permission to scout around the room and find a set of earphones,

4 because we need an extra set over here.

5 JUDGE AGIUS: There are two here.

6 MS. KORNER: There's one here.

7 MR. ACKERMAN: There's plenty of earphones apparently. Thank

8 you.

9 JUDGE AGIUS: Is the General Talic team okay with earphones?

10 You're okay.

11 MR. ZECEVIC: Yes, we are fine. We don't have any preliminaries.

12 JUDGE AGIUS: All right. If you require anything, please let me

13 know.

14 Yes, Ms. Korner.

15 MS. KORNER: Then Your Honour, the only matter is this: We begin

16 today the evidence relating to the municipality of Kljuc.


18 MS. KORNER: As Your Honours were aware, the witness who was

19 supposed to come was taken into hospital other the break, and so we have

20 had to reorganise. The first witness will be called by Ms. Richterova.

21 But Your Honour, just one matter in relation to the documents.

22 Madam Fauveau, very kindly, as is her wont, sent a letter last week

23 indicating which particular documents in the binders were contested for

24 the, if I can put it that way, the usual reasons. Your Honour, we've not

25 had any document on behalf of Mr. Brdjanin setting out which documents are

Page 8967

1 contested. I'd be grateful if -- either if Mr. Ackerman simply goes along

2 with what Ms. Fauveau says. That's fine. But if there are any other

3 specific documents that are contested, I'd be grateful if we could be

4 given a list. And I'd prefer to have a list of the documents that are

5 contested and not those that are not contested for the authenticity; the

6 reason being that obviously those are the ones that we will try and deal

7 with perhaps more than others with the witnesses.

8 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, I -- I join Madam Fauveau's list and

9 simply maintain the objection that I have made from the beginning

10 regarding the admission of documents without proper foundation.

11 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. So that's been settled.

12 I think we can proceed with calling the witness. This witness

13 does not enjoy any protective measures, as far as I remember.

14 MS. RICHTEROVA: No, there are no protective measures.

15 JUDGE AGIUS: Exactly.

16 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, with regard to this witness, it's my

17 assumption that there are no exhibits to be offered with regard to this

18 witness, since we've received no list of exhibits.

19 JUDGE AGIUS: No. I --

20 MS. RICHTEROVA: I was asked to distribute a list of -- we

21 disclosed it or we handed over it on Friday, and it was in the envelope

22 together with other disclosures. So I apologise -- or if Mr. Ackerman

23 hasn't opened the envelope yet.

24 JUDGE AGIUS: Mr. Ackerman, just for maybe looking at the page --

25 at the sheet of paper could mean anything. We were given this document

Page 8968

1 with four documents, one of which arrived before the others, the documents

2 being P986, P987, P797, and P1071.

3 MR. ACKERMAN: 986, 987.

4 JUDGE AGIUS: 797 and 1071.

5 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, when I arrived here this morning,

6 there was a stack of paper -- there were two huge boxes. I suppose the

7 entire stack would be this high. And unfortunately in the 15 minutes that

8 I had, I didn't find the one piece of paper that Ms. Richterova says I

9 should have found. They have my e-mail address. They have my fax

10 number. There's no reason they couldn't have given me this in a way to

11 make it certain that I would -- and I think it's -- it's just not fair to

12 throw something in my locker on the theory that I might find and it might

13 not when they have the better way to get information to me and make sure

14 that I have it. And I don't know what these exhibits are. I don't know

15 if they're important. I don't know if I would have something that I would

16 want to do if I'd had a chance to review them. And it's just not -- it's

17 just not a proper way to proceed as far as I'm concerned. Obviously it

18 was given to Your Honours in advance and you've had a chance to have --

19 JUDGE AGIUS: How long do you anticipate this witness to last, to

20 be here.

21 MS. RICHTEROVA: Today. Only today.

22 MS. FAUVEAU-IVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President.

23 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, Madam Fauveau.

24 MS. FAUVEAU-IVANOVIC: [Interpretation] I opened these two boxes

25 that we received, and I'm almost sure that the list is not inside. Of

Page 8969

1 course I cannot assert that because as Mr. Ackerman has said, it is a

2 large quantity of documents and it is quite possible that this piece of

3 paper is inside. I realised that these documents were there on Saturday

4 evening, and I did not see this list among them.

5 MS. RICHTEROVA: This list was in a separate envelope, because

6 we -- we knew that there were two big boxes and a separate envelope with

7 disclosure of documents -- two documents which were disclosed, plus new

8 order of witnesses, plus this list.

9 MS. FAUVEAU-IVANOVIC: [Interpretation] If it is this envelope,

10 this document was not inside that envelope because I studied the contents

11 of that envelope very closely.

12 JUDGE AGIUS: Basically -- I mean, if I -- if I can try to not

13 mediate but simplify things. One of these documents, which is 1071, is in

14 the Serbo-Croat language and it is, from what I can understand, is either

15 levee des corps, or postmortem examination results, and it's a thick

16 document all relating to a number of bodies that were obviously found

17 somewhere. That's one.

18 The other one is an on-site investigation record. And this is the

19 discovery of a mass grave in an underground cave. And this is 10 -- this

20 is -- part of the same document, 1071.

21 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, would -- I actually predicted -- I knew

22 something like this would go wrong. Would it be simpler if there aren't

23 very many documents -- if Your Honours were to rise for 15 minutes while

24 the Defence have a look at those documents and just tell us whether

25 there's any real objection to us starting.

Page 8970

1 JUDGE AGIUS: Would that be okay with you Mr. Ackerman and

2 Mr. Zecevic?

3 MR. ACKERMAN: Yes, I think that would be all right, Your

4 Honours. I'm not even sure that we'll be able to locate those documents.

5 MS. KORNER: We can if necessary provide immediate copies.

6 MR. ACKERMAN: All right.

7 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you.

8 MR. ACKERMAN: That will be fine.

9 JUDGE AGIUS: So we'll have a short break of 15 minutes and take

10 it up from there afterwards.

11 --- Break taken at 2.34 p.m.

12 --- On resuming at 3.03 p.m.

13 JUDGE AGIUS: Mr. Ackerman, are you happy now?

14 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, we have received copies of the

15 exhibits. I've had a chance to look at them. They're largely irrelevant

16 to the Brdjanin case, near as I can tell.

17 The other issue that has come up, though, Your Honour, is this:

18 It is, I think, since the beginning of this case, it has been the rule

19 that the Prosecutor is to notify us on Thursday of the week before who the

20 witnesses will be for the next week. And I received both a fax and an

21 e-mail in Texas last week telling me the witnesses for this week would be

22 7.69 and 7.133. I was just informed a few moments ago that they also will

23 have 7.65 and 7.105. I just learned that during this short break. And

24 really if there's going to be such a rule, then it should be enforced;

25 otherwise, it's a rule without any basis whatsoever.

Page 8971

1 So for the record, I object to the calling of any witnesses beyond

2 those that I receive notice of by Thursday of last week, that being 7.69

3 and 7.133. I think that if we're going to have such a rule, Your Honours

4 should enforce it or just say there's no rule and they can just bring

5 whoever they want whenever they want.

6 JUDGE AGIUS: Ms. Korner.

7 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, it may -- there are two things. The

8 main purpose was to inform the Defence as soon as possible that the

9 witness they thought was going to come was in fact not because he was

10 ill. These two witnesses would replace that witness, who would have taken

11 some time.

12 Your Honours, it may well be that we have to spell out in chapter

13 and verse that we're going to follow the order of witnesses. But with the

14 greatest of respect to Mr. Ackerman, it cannot have occurred to

15 Mr. Ackerman that we can spend five working days on two witnesses dealing

16 with one crime base massacre. Now, if it did, I'm sorry. Your Honour, if

17 it's necessary to say in terms every time these are the witnesses who will

18 be called time permitting, then we'll do it. The fact is the next two

19 witnesses -- one -- the first one will be a little bit longer because he's

20 going to set the scene for Kljuc. The second one effectively deals with

21 the same incident from a slightly different perspective. The third is the

22 man who was going to testify before the break until we realised that he

23 couldn't possibly finish before the break so -- and we said he was going

24 to be called afterwards. And then after that we move on to the fourth

25 witness, who is a political figure and is going to give the political

Page 8972

1 events.

2 Now, Your Honour, I'm sorry that Mr. Ackerman didn't appreciate

3 that there was going to be more than those two witnesses. Your Honours

4 heard the objection. Unless Your Honour rules that we can't, we propose

5 to call these witnesses, both of whom are arriving tonight. Otherwise, if

6 not, they'll have to go back to Bosnia.

7 JUDGE AGIUS: Mr. Ackerman.

8 MR. ACKERMAN: Well, I think -- the first thing: History says

9 that one must not assume that they're going to follow their list of

10 witnesses and call them in that order. They haven't done that yet. And

11 if one relies on that list, one does so as their own peril, because it

12 changes constantly. And if you look at what the -- the rule at the

13 beginning of this case was, that you notify us by Thursday of who your

14 witnesses will be the next week. They notified us of those two witnesses,

15 7.69 and 7.133. And I just want -- I want it to be noted that I object to

16 any other witnesses being called that weren't notified in accordance with

17 that rule. I'm sure that when we start the Defence case the Prosecutor

18 will want the same kind of -- kind of rule and want to be notified well in

19 advance of who the Defence witnesses are going to be. It just puts us in

20 a very difficult position to find out on the Monday morning who the

21 witnesses will be for the rest of the week.

22 JUDGE AGIUS: Anyway, the witnesses --

23 [Trial Chamber confers]

24 JUDGE AGIUS: So our decision in regard to this matter is very

25 simple and straight forward one.

Page 8973

1 Number one is that the agreement that was reached in the beginning

2 of this trial and the very early stages of this trial ought to be

3 observed. And please henceforth -- and this would apply when it's your

4 turn then as well -- do make sure, ensure that the Defence is notified in

5 time, in good time.

6 For this time what we are going to do is, things being what they

7 are, we will go ahead with hearing these two witnesses, but we reserve the

8 position should it become apparent to us that we should stop because of

9 one reason or another, then we will stop. In other words, the witnesses

10 will come, but we reserve the position. And we will decide accordingly as

11 we go along. All right, Mr. Ackerman?

12 So Witness 7.69, usher.

13 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]

14 [The witness entered court]

15 JUDGE AGIUS: Good afternoon to you, sir.

16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good afternoon.

17 JUDGE AGIUS: You are about to start giving evidence in this

18 case. But before you do so, the gentleman who is standing next to you

19 will hand you the text of a solemn declaration to tell us the truth in the

20 course of your testimony. And I kindly invite you to make that solemn

21 declaration now by reading that text. Thank you.

22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will speak

23 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.


25 [Witness answered through interpreter]

Page 8974

1 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you. And you may sit down.

2 Mr. Cajic, I'll try to explain to you where you are and what will

3 happen. You are in one of the courtrooms of this Tribunal, and you are

4 giving evidence in a case that has been instituted against two persons,

5 one of whom is Radoslav Brdjanin. The other one is General Momir Talic.

6 You are a witness that has been brought forward by the Prosecution.

7 I am the Presiding Judge. My name is Agius. And I am flanked by

8 two other Judges. On my right is Judge Janu from the Czech Republic and

9 on my left is Judge Taya from Japan. The three persons you're seeing in

10 front of you are the Registry. And what you should be interested about is

11 for the time being, the three persons sitting in the front row to your

12 right, those are the members of the Prosecution. And you will be first

13 questioned -- be questioned by Madam Richterova from the team of the

14 Prosecution.

15 In the front row on your left, you see five persons. The first

16 three represent -- the three who are nearer to you represent -- nearest

17 to you represent the Defence team for General -- for Radoslav Brdjanin,

18 and the last two represent the Defence team for General Talic.

19 The system we adopt here is that you are asked a set of questions,

20 one question after the other, by the Prosecution first. And you are

21 supposed to or expected to answer those questions to the best of your

22 ability, telling us always the truth. My advice to you here is not to go

23 beyond what will be asked of you, not to get lost in details that are not

24 asked of you. Just answer the question, the whole question, and nothing

25 but the question.

Page 8975

1 When the Prosecution finishes with its series of questions, then

2 the Defence team -- both Defence teams have a right to put questions to

3 you. We call that a cross-examination. And it will be done one Defence

4 team after another.

5 After that, there may be a re-examination on the part of the

6 Prosecution. Not necessarily so. And there may be some questions from

7 the Bench, from us three Judges here. But that stands to be seen, and it

8 depends very much on what your testimony will cover.

9 Having said that, I now call upon Madam Richterova to start the

10 examination-in-chief of her witness. Thank you.

11 MS. RICHTEROVA: Thank you.

12 Examined by Ms. Richterova:

13 Q. Good morning -- good afternoon. Would you be so kind and state

14 your --

15 A. Good afternoon.

16 Q. Can you state your full name for the record.

17 A. My name is Husein Cajic.

18 Q. You were born on 19 July 1961 in Biljani; is that correct?

19 A. That's right.

20 Q. You are of Bosniak ethnic origin; is that correct?

21 A. Yes. That's right.

22 Q. And you are of Islamic faith.

23 A. That's right.

24 Q. As you stated, you were born in Biljani. In which part of Biljani

25 were you born and lived?

Page 8976

1 A. In Biljani, in the hamlet of Brkici.

2 MS. RICHTEROVA: I would like to show the witness the map called

3 Biljani overview and enter it as an Exhibit 1070 and if we can place it on

4 the ELMO.

5 A. It's here, but the picture isn't very clear. That's fine.

6 Q. You can -- you can have a look directly on the map which is on the

7 ELMO. You don't need to have a look on the map which is on the screen.

8 Maybe it will be easier for you.

9 A. That's right. Thank you.

10 Q. Is it correct to say that Biljani is comprised of several hamlets?

11 A. That's correct.

12 Q. Can you show us on this map the hamlet in which you lived.

13 A. It's the hamlet of Brkici.

14 Q. What would you say about the ethnic composition of Biljani as such

15 and the hamlets which were part of Biljani?

16 A. Well, for the whole area of Biljani, I think about 75 to 80 per

17 cent of the population was Muslim and about 20 to 25 per cent of the

18 population were of Serbian ethnicity.

19 Q. Can you state which hamlets were purely Muslims and which were

20 purely Serbs, or which area were purely Serbs?

21 A. The Brkici hamlet, Dzaferagici, and Botonici, and Jabukovac, these

22 are of Muslim ethnicity. And then Polje, only one Serb lived there. In

23 the centre of Biljani, which isn't indicated here, there were only three

24 Serbs living there. And the village of Domazeti there were five or six

25 Serbs who live there and the remainder of the population was of Muslim

Page 8977

1 ethnicity. In Gologlavo, there were only Serbs. In Lancari, there were

2 only Serbs too. That's Lancari and here you can't see Samardzije, Lakici,

3 Sikmani, and these were purely Serbian villages. These villages haven't

4 been indicated on the map.

5 Q. Were there any mosques or other religious buildings in the area of

6 Biljani?

7 A. In the area of Biljani, there was one religious building. There

8 was one mosque. And there were two auxiliary builds which served for

9 the same purpose. The mosque was in the hamlet of Dzaferagici.

10 Q. And these other two religious buildings?

11 A. One religious building was in Jabukovac and the other in Poponici

12 [phoen]. These were prominent buildings.

13 Q. Do you remember in which conditions were these religious buildings

14 by the end -- by the middle of 1992?

15 A. In the middle of 1992, the mosque was in excellent condition. It

16 had been renovated a few years ago whereas in Mesani and Jabukovac, and

17 Botonici they were a little dilapidated, but they were -- the condition

18 was correct. They were just a little bit used. The buildings were just a

19 little bit older.

20 Q. And were they still used?

21 A. Yes. At the time they were still in use.

22 Q. Thank you.

23 MS. RICHTEROVA: We do not need the map any more.

24 Q. Can you very briefly describe the situation, the condition of

25 living in your area, Biljani, and surrounding areas before 1990s and after

Page 8978

1 1990s. Were there any differences in the life? But very briefly.

2 A. I can say precisely up until 1985 that the relationships between

3 all the ethnic groups were fairly good. People lived very well. There

4 were mixed marriages. People would be best men. There were common

5 weddings, et cetera. From 1985 to 1990, that's when things started to

6 change a bit. And in the 1990s, with the beginning of the war in

7 Slovenia, things came to a head and tension rose. There was tension since

8 the JNA army, which was leaving Slovenia, mostly moved over into Bosnia

9 and Herzegovina. One unit moved into the vicinity of our municipality,

10 to be more precise, to the place called Laniste. And that's when matters

11 got more complicated.

12 Q. You mentioned a war in Slovenia. And what about a war in

13 Croatia? Did it affect the life in your area as well?

14 A. The war in Croatia started in 1991. At the time the situation

15 changed completely. It became completely inverted. And given that the

16 former JNA army attempted to take parts of Croatia and before parts of

17 Slovenia and didn't succeed in doing that, they started mobilising other

18 forces, other troops. And among those ranks, there were Muslims. And at

19 that time, given the relationship between the Croats and the Muslims and

20 their co-existence, the Muslims didn't respond to the mobilisation and

21 they were put on the side, whereas the Serbs accepted this. They accepted

22 the mobilisation and went to the battlefield in Croatia.

23 Q. When they accepted and went to Croatia, were mobilised, do you

24 know whether they still received salaries in their respective jobs, to

25 your knowledge?

Page 8979

1 A. I didn't work in local factories. Since before that I worked in

2 Slovenia and then I worked privately. I had a brother and a sister-in-law

3 and some relatives who worked in the factory. In fact, when the

4 mobilisation was proclaimed, they remained to work there, especially

5 the men, whereas all the local population who worked in the factory and

6 went to the battlefield in Croatia, they received their salaries, but

7 they also had a salary which they received from the JNA.

8 Q. Do you know what were the consequences of refusing to be mobilised

9 for the non-Serb population, or even for Serb population, refused to go to

10 the battlefield?

11 A. For the Serbian population, no, I can't give you any precise

12 information. I know about the Muslims who didn't respond to the

13 mobilisation. I know that their movements were restricted. In fact, they

14 were ordered not to leave their villages without informing the military

15 department of this.

16 Q. So it was irrelevant to people who refused to go to battlefield.

17 When you said they were restricted of movement, was there later

18 restriction of movement for other non-Serb population? And I am talking

19 about the beginning of 1992.

20 A. At the beginning of 1992, in the first three months of 1992, in

21 fact, there was no restriction of movement. It was possible to move

22 around Bosnia and Herzegovina freely, but not beyond because there were

23 some workers who had working permits in Croatia and Slovenia and they

24 would go there by auxiliary routes. This was in Herzegovina and through

25 Brcko, and these were the routes they would take to go to work.

Page 8980

1 Q. Now I am referring again to your area. You said at the beginning

2 there were no restrictions on movement, so it -- does it mean that there

3 was restriction on movement at some later point?

4 A. Not really real restriction of movement, since when the referendum

5 was held in March, when Bosnia and Herzegovina was recognised, then the

6 situation changed and certain police checkpoints were erected in Sanica

7 and Kljuc. And among the reserve military forces, there were observation

8 posts which they put up in Gologlavo, in the area of Gologlavo, and in the

9 area of Lunjevo and some other places that I was not able to observe. But

10 I know this from hearsay. I saw these two places personally, since they

11 can be seen from my house. But I didn't see the other places. But there

12 were four or five other observation posts of this kind. And we, the

13 inhabitants of Biljani, lived in the centre and in the valley mainly, and

14 we were observed from above. They would try to observe us and see where

15 we were going, what we were doing, et cetera.

16 Q. When you mentioned these checkpoints, did you personally went

17 through any of these checkpoints?

18 A. Yes, a couple of times in Sanica.

19 Q. You said that these checkpoints were established shortly after the

20 referendum; is that correct?

21 A. That's correct.

22 Q. So shortly after the referendum, there were checkpoints. Who

23 manned these checkpoints after the referendum?

24 A. At the time on the main roads, at the checkpoints of the main

25 roads, people from the police station in Sanica were there and reserve

Page 8981

1 forces of the police manned the checkpoints. There were Muslims among

2 them.

3 Q. So is it correct to state that there were mixed patrols?

4 A. Yes, that's correct.

5 Q. Was there any point when the composition of these patrols would

6 change?

7 A. Yes. The composition changed when the Serbian police -- or in

8 fact when the police station was taken over in Sanica, in Kljuc. It was

9 taken over by the Serbian army, or in fact at the time it was the Yugoslav

10 Army. That's when they took over the checkpoint. There was movement on

11 the part of the army, on the part of the troops. And on that day, I think

12 it was between the 20th and 22nd of May, a checkpoint in Sanica was taken

13 over, at which my relative Mujo Cajic worked. He was on duty at the

14 checkpoint on that day. And when the -- when Tomic Milan, the police

15 commander came, together with soldiers and other policemen who took that

16 checkpoint over, they were ordered -- they were then ordered to go to the

17 police station in Sanica.

18 Q. And do you know what happened at that police station in Sanica?

19 A. In the police station in Sanica, they were offered to sign a

20 document according to which they were to join the Serbian civilian police.

21 First of all, they spoke to the commander about this. And finally, they

22 refused to do this. Cajic Mujo, and the other members of the reserve

23 police force and of the regular police force refused to do this, those who

24 were of Muslim nationality.

25 Q. How did you learn about what you just said? Did someone -- did

Page 8982

1 someone tell you about this?

2 A. From that day onwards, we were no longer able to enter Sanica, so

3 I didn't see that personally. But Mujo Cajic is only 30 or 40 metres

4 away from my house. His house is 30 or 40 metres away from my house. And

5 I've already said that he was my uncle. And a neighbour of mine, a friend

6 of mine, also worked in the police, Avdic Sead, he had only done his

7 military service.

8 Q. So you learned it from your uncle, is it correct to state?

9 A. Yes, from a cousin of mine.

10 Q. I will go a little bit before this -- this time. And I would like

11 to ask you about arming of people in Biljani and surrounding area. To

12 your knowledge, did civilians receive or buy some weapons? And I'm

13 talking about all population. I mean Serbs and non-Serbs. To your

14 knowledge. Do you know whether the civilians were armed?

15 A. I can personally claim, given that in 1991, while the war was

16 still raging in Croatia, I worked in a cafe in Bravsko. MIG 91 was the

17 name. And on one occasion, some young men came, and they asked me to make

18 some boards, 1 metre by 1 metre, since I had the material. When I had

19 made these boards, one of them came and then later on several of them came

20 with automatic rifles and they themselves told me, "Oh, we have now

21 received this and in a few days we have to go to the battlefield in

22 Croatia. Whoever wants to volunteer can get this and we're going to train

23 now." And they even offered me to do this. I refused to do this. This

24 was in 1991.

25 In 1992, given that in 1992 the battlefield in Kupres was an issue

Page 8983

1 and there were quite a lot of Serbs from our area, from the area of

2 Biljani and Sanica, and they went in a regular manner to the battlefield

3 there, and they had been issued uniforms and weapons, so they already had

4 this. And on several occasions we could see a helicopter which landed in

5 Gologlavo. Naturally it had JNA marks on it. And individual Serbs, not

6 realising what they were saying, said, "We've received -- we've had our

7 things and now we'll see about you."

8 And then one other thing: The Muslims, we had certain hunting

9 weapons which had been -- which were legally possessed. If one was a

10 hunter, this was normal, and anyone else who legally owned a pistol,

11 well, it was normal to possess such weapons.

12 Q. I will stop you now for a second. When I am reading the

13 transcript. You said that an individual Serbs not realising what they

14 were saying and said, "We have received -- we have had our things and now

15 we will see about you." Can you be more specific. Did they -- what they

16 were referring to, because this sentence doesn't make too much sense.

17 A. Perhaps in previous statements I didn't mention this. Quite a lot

18 can't be said, you know. On each occasion -- well, I personally had a

19 colleague with whom I would see. We were friends. We would visit each

20 other. But they didn't tell me this personally. They told this to

21 Dervisevic Feriz, a relative of mine. He's 70 years old now. And there

22 were -- there was information according to which they went from house to

23 house and delivered weapons, distributed weapons to their -- to the local

24 inhabitants.

25 Q. So you -- is it correct to state that you received from somebody

Page 8984

1 else an information that --

2 A. Information, that's correct.

3 Q. -- that Serb civilians were receiving weapons.

4 A. That's correct.

5 Q. But you didn't see it by yourself.

6 A. No, I didn't. But I saw this in Gologlavo -- in Bravsko, where I

7 worked in the cafe.

8 Q. So you -- what did you see in that cafe?

9 A. In that cafe, as I said, a young man came to see me. He was about

10 20 years old. And he asked me to make this target. And then ten young

11 men came. They were wearing civilian clothes, and they had automatic

12 rifles with them. And they personally told me, "We've been issued with

13 this. In a few days time, we're going to the battlefield in Croatia. And

14 now we're going to try these weapons out. Are you coming with us?" I

15 said no. Because there were -- I had work to do. And shortly afterwards,

16 ten or 15 minutes later they left. And throughout the day you could hear

17 them testing the weapons, trying out the weapons.

18 Q. Apart from this occasion, did you see any other civilians carrying

19 weapons?

20 A. Only after the 30th of May, for example. In June and July, that

21 means.

22 Q. Where was it?

23 A. In Biljani. In my village, in my hamlet.

24 Q. Now I will return to what you have already started talking about.

25 I would like to know about arming of Muslims. Do you know whether also

Page 8985

1 non-Serb people had weapons and how they received these weapons?

2 A. That was true. There were automatic weapons, about ten pieces, in

3 Biljani too. And there were some handmade weapons, so-called Kugari

4 [phoen]. Also in Biljani, I can't give you a precise figure, but I can

5 claim with certainty that I -- since I was some sort of a technician, they

6 came to me personally, Serbs, whom I did not know, and they offered me

7 weapons to buy. But about ten of our people bought them, since the police

8 had lists of people. When they would take away weapons, they would then

9 sell weapons and say, "I sold weapons to this person or that person, the

10 person under this number, and that is where he can be found."

11 Q. When you are referring to "our people," you are referring to

12 Muslims.

13 A. The Serbs came and would sell this, and yes, Muslims would buy

14 them. About -- tens of Muslims, dozens of Muslims. They would get them

15 from the Croatian battlefield mostly and would sell them.

16 Q. I want to ask you one question in relation to takeover of Sanica

17 police station, as you already discussed, and it was: Do you know whether

18 the uniforms or insignia on police uniforms changed after the takeover?

19 A. As I said, I personally did not know -- witness this. But from my

20 relative Mujo Cajic, I heard about this. When he went to the police

21 station, they had taken off the flag of Bosnia and Herzegovina, or rather

22 of Yugoslavia, and they put out the flag of the Serbian Republic with

23 4-S's on it and with the white-headed eagle. And members of the other

24 police force and Mujo confirmed this. Immediately changed the insignia

25 on their shoulders and they got new insignia. For some of them this

Page 8986

1 was -- this represented four S's. And in most cases it was the symbol of

2 the eagle.

3 Q. Do you know how this eagle looked like?

4 A. White-headed eagle, something like what Germany has on its coat of

5 arms, something like that. Afterwards when the army passed through

6 Biljani, I had occasion to see that emblem again.

7 Q. So you saw this emblem of eagle on insignia for the army who came

8 to Biljani?

9 A. Yes, correct. The first time was towards the end of May.

10 Q. [Previous translation continues] ... talk about that later. I was

11 only confirming whether you saw this.

12 A. Yes, yes, correct. The four S's, yes.

13 Q. We also discussed this restriction of movement when you mentioned

14 that there were these checkpoints. To your knowledge, was there any

15 curfew imposed in your area?

16 A. In those days, there was no curfew. I don't know whether you'll

17 understand me, but I'd like to say that we, especially men, didn't go to

18 Sanica because we were not allowed to go there during the daytime, not to

19 mention at night.

20 Q. And so when you said you were not allowed -- so how do you know

21 that you were not allowed to go there?

22 A. With the takeover of the police station, on that day quite a

23 number of workers, or rather, all the employees of Muslim ethnicity,

24 including my brother, both men and women, were turned back from the

25 checkpoint at Sanica and told to go home.

Page 8987

1 Q. And did he -- did they get any explanation for this procedure?

2 A. No. They were just told that they were no longer needed. Just

3 they said, "Go home until further notice."

4 Q. And to your knowledge, if someone -- if someone wanted to leave

5 Biljani and go somewhere else, does that person could go freely or does he

6 or she needed permission?

7 A. I'm unable to say, because we didn't want to go anywhere nor did

8 we have anywhere to go, because you couldn't go to Sanica and especially

9 not to Kljuc and especially us men. No one dared go anywhere. That's the

10 simple truth.

11 Q. I will ask -- I will rephrase it. But you said you couldn't go to

12 Sanica. Was it because of the checkpoints, or did you receive any

13 instruction that you cannot leave your village?

14 A. At the time we had still not been told that we couldn't leave our

15 village, but whenever we passed the checkpoint, many inhabitants of

16 Biljani were mistreated. They were cursed, sworn at. They were still not

17 beaten in those days, but they were harassed, provoked, and one would have

18 to go to the police station to get a document, a piece of paper to be able

19 toll go to Kljuc. That's how it was.

20 Q. And one last question about these checkpoints: Did you go through

21 any of these checkpoints after the Serbs took over the police station in

22 Sanica?

23 A. No, and I didn't dare go.

24 Q. And do you know who manned these checkpoints at that time, after

25 the -- were there still these mixed patrols or only of one nationality

Page 8988












12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and

13 English transcripts.













Page 8989

1 patrols?

2 A. Only one nationality patrols.

3 Q. And because you said that you didn't go through any of these

4 checkpoints, how did you know there were only one nationality patrols?

5 A. I told you that my brother went to work and there was a one

6 national patrol. My sister-in-law went to Sanica on a couple of occasions

7 to get her salary, my brother's wife, and she personally saw workers that

8 she used to work with in the factory who asked for her ID, though he was

9 her neighbour and they worked together, still she needed her ID card to be

10 able to pass through that checkpoint and go only as far as Sanica.

11 Q. And let's make it absolutely clear. What was the nationality of

12 those who manned these checkpoints?

13 A. They were of Serb nationality.

14 Q. Now, I would return again to the weapons. You said that there

15 were some weapons in your village, that Muslim people bought some weapons

16 and you had some weapons from previous days. Do you know whether there

17 were some announcements during 1992 to surrender weapons?

18 A. I'm not quite sure what date it was, between the 25th and the

19 27th, but I know that on one day a van arrived informing people on the

20 loudspeaker that all Muslims owning weapons should hand over their weapons

21 at the railway station in Sanica. Not at the police station, but at the

22 railway station in Sanica, which was no longer being used by the

23 railways. Of course the Muslims did that in 99 per cent of the cases on

24 that day. But two men either didn't hear the announcement that day or for

25 some other reason - I don't know which - but I do know that they came the

Page 8990

1 next day and said, "If those two men --" and they read out the number of

2 the rifle. One was a hunting rifle, legally owned, and the other was an

3 automatic rifle. And "if they are not returned to the railway station,

4 all the other Muslims would be taken into custody." And these young men

5 did so on that day, which means that all the weapons from Biljani were

6 handed in but I don't know exactly whether it was the 25th or the 26th of

7 May that this happened.

8 Q. After you handed over the weapons, what happened? Did anybody

9 come to your village to check whether you really handed over the weapons?

10 A. The next day or two days later, from the direction of Kljuc an

11 armoured vehicle arrived in olive-grey colour, two armoured vehicles, with

12 some 50 to 70 soldiers walking alongside them. I can confirm this

13 personally because we first heard them arriving, these two APCs, from

14 Kljuc to Sanica. In front of them were civilians, inhabitants of the

15 hamlet of Cehici. And when they reached the entrance to Brkici, the

16 crossroads there, these people reached our houses and told us that every

17 household should hang out a white sheet on the balcony or somewhere else

18 as a sign of recognition, as a sign of surrender, and that men between 16

19 and 60 years of age should walk in front of these APCs, that is, they

20 should go to the asphalt road at the crossroads towards Sanica.

21 Q. And what happened with the civilians who came from Cehici?

22 A. When we approached those APCs, when we got closer, I was able to

23 see clearly that behind those APCs and around them, some 20 to 50 metres

24 on each side, I saw soldiers wearing olive-grey uniforms. Some of them

25 had camouflage uniforms. And then one of their commanders -- I don't know

Page 8991

1 his name, so I can't tell you -- said to the inhabitants of Cehici that

2 they could go home. And as we were quite numerous, that half of the

3 inhabitants of Brkici could also go home, whereas the other half of some

4 30 men - and I was among them - we were ordered to walk in front of the

5 APCs towards Sanica, which we did as far as the hamlet of Jabukovac. So

6 we were a human shield, and we were told that. Just before we reached

7 Jabukovac, they said to two or three men: "Go to Jabukovac, gather all

8 men between 18 and 60 and tell them to hang out the white sheets. If all

9 of them don't come out to the bridge at Jabukovac, we will execute these

10 men in front." There were no incidents. No one did anything at all. We

11 reached the bridge safely. At the bridge the people of Jabukovac were in

12 front of us, and we were allowed to return to our homes.

13 Q. When you were still in Brkici and soldiers arrived to the village

14 of Brkici --

15 A. Correct.

16 Q. What did --

17 A. Correct.

18 Q. -- what did they do in your village, these soldiers who arrived

19 from this direction of probably Cehici?

20 A. Those soldiers, according to what my mother said, who stayed at

21 home, they just passed through the village, entered the houses, looked

22 into the stables, and then continued towards Jabukovac. Nothing happened.

23 We returned home and the whole unit went on towards Sanica, and we stayed

24 at home.

25 Q. These soldiers, can you tell us who they were, what did they --

Page 8992

1 what did they wear?

2 A. All the soldiers were armed, normally with automatic weapons. As

3 I said, there were two APCs, one of which I think was a PAT, P-A-T,

4 anti-aircraft gun. They had normal weapons, just like any military

5 unit would have, with grenades and --

6 Q. And what did they --

7 A. -- and weapons clips and so on.

8 Q. What kind of uniform did they wear?

9 A. I just said. They had olive-grey uniforms, and a few had

10 camouflage uniforms. Most of these were made from the canvas used for

11 tents by the former JNA.

12 Q. Were you able to notice any insignias on their uniforms?

13 A. Yes. Many of them had the insignia of four S's, some of them on

14 their caps had these white-headed eagles. And each of them on their

15 epaulettes had a ribbon in a certain colour, probably this was a sign of

16 recognition, but at the time we didn't know what it meant.

17 Q. And after these soldiers left your village and you returned to

18 your homes, did anything else happen in your village?

19 A. In Brkici itself, nothing. But I can say on the basis of stories

20 the next day and the day after that that same evening, from the hamlet of

21 Polje, close to Sanica, they took 15 to 20 men to Sanica, whereas the rest

22 were all told to return home.

23 Q. How did you learn about this?

24 A. I learnt about this from my sister, as my sister lives in Polje,

25 the hamlet of Polje, as they took her neighbour and another 15 or 20

Page 8993

1 young men as well.

2 Q. Did any soldiers come to your village at some other occasion?

3 A. I can say that those same soldiers three days later, again from

4 the direction of Sanica, they arrived going in the direction of Kljuc, and

5 they once again searched the whole village.

6 Q. On that occasion, did they find something?

7 A. On that occasion, they didn't find anything either. Only

8 returning from Sanica and no one was arrested from the Brkici hamlet, from

9 Cehici, Osmanovici, and the centre of Biljani, 20 -- or rather, 50 men

10 were taken into custody and taken towards Kljuc. That day a killing

11 occurred when Cehici -- I've forgotten the first name now -- Hamdo. I was

12 a witness as the soldiers came from the direction of Gologlavo, across the

13 hill, this is the first day, this must have been around the 1st of June.

14 When we heard them come from Sanica, these two APCs, we turned around to

15 face them. However, behind our backs soldiers came and ordered us to

16 rally in the middle of the village at the intersection of roads, which we

17 did, just the men. The women remained at home. I was present. I can't

18 tell you the name, but working in the cafe at Bravsko, I knew a Serb and I

19 exchanged greetings with him, and I was close to the commander of that

20 unit. Also present was radio communications officer. And when we heard

21 some loud shots, I said to the signalsman, "Look, go and see what's

22 happening. They're shooting from the hill up there at ours." We said,

23 "But that is your checkpoint, your observation post. They are shooting."

24 And then he ordered the fighting to stop. And a couple of minutes later,

25 he was angry. He was really angry. He started shouting and cursing, and

Page 8994

1 he said that all of us inhabitants of Brkici should remain in the village,

2 whereas he hurried on with some 30 men that he had in his units towards

3 the centre of Biljani. And it was only the next day that we learnt that

4 Cehic Hamdo had been killed, and we also learnt next day that 50 to 60 men

5 had been taken from Osmanovici, Cehici, and the centre of Biljani to the

6 school -- to the elementary school in Kljuc.

7 Q. After this and other -- this visit or search or presence of army,

8 before 10 of July, did any group of soldiers come to your village again?

9 A. Correct. Occasionally when they went to the front lines, passing

10 through the village from Sanica they would often shoot at the houses.

11 Also on the 20-something of June, from the direction of Sanica, soldiers

12 arrived. As my house is in a position that I can see the road, 1

13 kilometre towards Sanica and 1 kilometre towards Kljuc, we noticed

14 soldiers coming from Sanica. And after five or ten minutes, people said,

15 "The soldiers are coming again from Gologlavo and from Lancari," that is,

16 from that part of our village. Just then soldiers -- reservists came.

17 That is, the local inhabitants of Lancari. There were even some civilians

18 among them who were armed and carrying rifles and who said that all men

19 between 18 and 60 should come out of their houses, go to the locality of

20 Jezerina next to our village, whereas the women and children should remain

21 in front of the houses that, no one should remain in the houses because

22 the soldiers would be searching the houses. We did as we were told, all

23 of us. And when this commander arrived, he introduced himself. He said

24 who they were and where they came from. It was a company from Lusci

25 Palanka. The soldiers went to search the village. And when he received

Page 8995

1 the report that there was no one in the village, that they hadn't found

2 any weapons there, we entered the village together with them. Before that

3 they had some sort of a list and they called out from that list my brother

4 Smajo Cajic, Feriz Dervisevic, and Omer Dervisevic and they took them with

5 them from Biljani towards Jabukovac and Polje, whereas the rest of us

6 inhabitants of the village remained in the village.

7 Q. And what happened to them? Did they return or were they arrested?

8 A. All three of them were brought back that evening around 7.00.

9 Q. On occasions of these searches, arrests, was ever anybody killed

10 in your village?

11 A. I said that only Hamdo Cehic had been killed the first time. And

12 that day we learnt immediately that Dzaferagic Abid had been killed and

13 Tehvid Omanovic. We were told this by Boro in person. Boro and Mladjo

14 Tesic, as they brought my brother and these other two to the village. And

15 the next day we also heard that Hasib Mujezinovic, also known as Djuza had

16 been killed. Then in the hamlet of Polje, another four or five men had

17 been killed. I can't remember the names now.

18 Q. You said -- you said: "On that day we learned immediately

19 that Dzaferagici had been killed." Which day are you referring --

20 A. Dzaferagici.

21 Q. Which day are you referring, the day when your brother was

22 arrested?

23 A. Yes, yes, that day. And all these killings that I just listed

24 happened on that day.

25 Q. Did you see the bodies?

Page 8996

1 A. No, I didn't see the bodies of the killed because I didn't dare

2 leave the house. My late father went to fetch the bodies and to bury them

3 at the cemetery in Cehici.

4 Q. And one last question before we turn to the 10th of July. Did you

5 see any SDS representatives in your village on any of these occasions?

6 A. Yes. Vlado Umcanin the president of the SDS came on the day of

7 the ultimatum for the handover of weapons.

8 Q. And do you remember what did he say?

9 A. He came another day with Ajkic Redzo who was the leader of the SDA

10 party at the time. And he issued an ultimatum about the handover of an

11 automatic rifle and a hunting rifle, saying if that didn't happen the

12 whole village would pay for it. But as I said, I'm not quite sure what

13 day that was, the 25th or the 26th of May.

14 Q. So was this the only occasion when any representatives, either SDA

15 or SDS, ever visited your village?

16 A. I think it was, because I personally was present. Only Mr. Fikret

17 Balagic and Osman -- Balagic Fikret was secretary of Kljuc municipality.

18 He lived in Brkici. Hamdic Osman, who worked in the military department

19 after the handover of weapons -- I can't tell you which colonel they

20 addressed, but they tried to arrange some kind of co-existence and they

21 went to Sanica four or five times for talks and negotiations. And they

22 had even come to some sort of an agreement on co-existence and the

23 protection of Muslims, saying that no one could hurt us. Unfortunately

24 this colonel did not live long after that. He was killed somewhere on the

25 front, so that nothing ever came of that agreement.

Page 8997

1 Q. Now I would like to focus on the 10th of July. And now I'm a

2 little bit lost with the break.

3 JUDGE AGIUS: I thought you had been consulted.

4 Have you consulted the Prosecution as well?

5 The plan is to go on till 4.40. We may require one, two-minutes

6 to change the tapes. Until then, we'll go straight to 4.40. Then we'll

7 have a 20-minute break. We'll start -- recommence at 5.00 and we'll

8 finish at 6.30. So we'll only have a 20-minute break between now and the

9 end. However, if -- if that creates problems for you, madam, we could --

10 MS. RICHTEROVA: No, it doesn't create -- I wasn't --

11 JUDGE AGIUS: No, it's my fault. I thought you had been

12 consulted, actually. So it's not a problem. I tried to economise as much

13 as possible on breaks so that you could possibly finish with this witness

14 today, if that was your intention. Thank you.


16 Q. As I said, now I would like to focus on the day of 10 July 1992.

17 Can you start from the morning. What happened which -- which you

18 remember, the first thing which struck your attention.

19 A. Let's start by saying that the first thing that I noticed was that

20 I got up early, which is my habit. Around 6.00 I was still lying in my

21 bed. I heard four or five shots coming from different directions. I

22 found that suspicious, and subconsciously I thought something was wrong,

23 as if they were making some sort of an arrangement. Then I woke another

24 three or four men who had houses along the road but were no longer

25 sleeping in their houses. They had withdrawn from the road to be safer,

Page 8998

1 and they never spent the night in their own houses. They -- for the last

2 two months. And when we got up, we discussed what it could be and what we

3 should do next. We were going to cut the grass in Lancari. And the

4 previous day the young man whose grass was to be cut had gone to ask Serbs

5 whether we could go and cut grass and said -- and they said, "Of course.

6 There's no problem. We will even make sure that no one will interfere

7 with your work."

8 Q. I'll just stop you here. When you said that you asked your

9 neighbour for permission to cut the grass, why did you do it? Was it your

10 obligation to ask your neighbours for permission?

11 A. We couldn't leave the village and go anywhere, because the police

12 informed us that we were not allowed to leave the locations. We weren't

13 allowed to go to the forest, to walk around the meadows, to go to other

14 hamlets and walk around other hamlets. So about -- at the end of the 30th

15 of May, our movement was restricted a hundred per cent. We weren't even

16 allowed to go from one hamlet to another. And to go -- to cross a

17 checkpoint, we couldn't even think about doing this.

18 Q. So now we can return again back to 10 of July. You said you

19 wanted to cut the grass. You woke up at 6.00 in the morning. And please

20 go on.

21 A. As I said, from the upper village Jasarevici, Enis Jasarevic, came

22 by and he said, "Listen the village is surrounded, and we have all been

23 ordered to gather at Jezerina." All men between the age of 18 and 60, and

24 women and children are to remain at home, they're to go outside of their

25 houses because the village will be searched again. Normally this is what

Page 8999

1 we did. And we were among the first to head towards Jezerina. And at

2 about 30 or 40 metres away I quite by accident looked in the direction of

3 Jezerina, the so-called meadow, and I saw some armed soldiers there. They

4 were on guard. They'd been positioned there. They were talking, and

5 their rifles were pointing in our direction. I looked towards Glavica and

6 up there I saw five or six soldiers. They were standing there too. And

7 naturally, without thinking about this, since soldiers had already passed

8 by and they'd cleaned up the village, well, we thought okay, we'll go to

9 Jezerina, they can do their job, and we'll carry on as usual.

10 When the late -- the late father, he was ill. He had diabetes.

11 And he was at the limit -- at the age limit. He was about 60 years. I

12 said, "Are you going?" He said, "No, you go, my son. I'll remain at

13 home." This is what we did. I can say that at that time people under 18

14 years of age also came out and people who were over 60 years of age. And

15 when we got to Jezerina when we all gathered there, behind our houses we

16 saw Marko Samardzija immediately. I knew him very well. First of all, he

17 was my teacher at elementary school for the first four classes. And for

18 four years he taught me history in elementary school. We saw him first of

19 all.

20 Q. Mr. Cajic, can I stop you for a second again. You said you saw

21 Marko Samardzija, who was your teacher at the elementary school. At this

22 point what -- what was Marko Samardzija -- in which capacity was Marko

23 Samardzija in Jezerina?

24 A. Samardzija was with Tesic Mladjo there. He was standing there

25 with him. And when we approached them, I noticed, given that only he

Page 9000

1 addressed us, I noticed a sign on Marko Samardzija. At the time it was

2 the rank of captain. And Mladjo Tesic, I saw he had insignia. He told us

3 that Marko Samardzija was his deputy -- I apologise, that Tesic Mladjo was

4 his deputy. I knew him too, since we lived in the same neighbourhood.

5 Q. So could I stop you again. You are talking too fast, so please

6 slow down a little bit.

7 JUDGE AGIUS: [Microphone not activated] Within the next five

8 minutes we will need to stop for about a minute. So whenever it's

9 convenient for you --

10 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone please, Your Honour.

11 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Within the next five minutes, we will need to

12 stop for about two minutes to have the tapes changed.

13 MS. RICHTEROVA: I can --

14 JUDGE AGIUS: Whenever it's convenient for you. I mean, I'm just

15 telling you five minutes ahead.


17 Q. You said you saw Marko Samardzija and he had the sign for captain.

18 What did he wear?

19 A. He had three stars on his pocket, whereas Mladjo Tesic had three

20 broad lines on his shoulders. And I can also mention that they had all

21 ribbons of the same colour which had been tied to their shoulders.

22 Q. And you said that he had a rank of captain. So did he wear some

23 uniform, Marko Samardzija?

24 A. Yes, Marko Samardzija was also wearing an olive-grey uniform,

25 whereas Mladjo Tesic was in camouflage uniform. That's how it was.

Page 9001

1 Q. And did you know at that time which unit did he belong?

2 A. I didn't know which unit Marko belonged to at the time, but I do

3 know that in -- when -- before they had moved around the battlefields and

4 on the basis of what certain people had said, I knew that he was a company

5 commander since that on day he was the one giving orders, saying how we

6 would line up, saying where we would go. He provided us with all the

7 instructions that we had to carry out.

8 MS. RICHTEROVA: I think we can stop at this stage.

9 JUDGE AGIUS: So I will have a two-minute break, during which time

10 the tapes can be changed. And then we'll continue. Everyone will remain

11 seated, please. As soon as we have the thumbs-up sign, then we can

12 resume. I think we can resume already. Is that correct? Yes.

13 Madam Richterova, you may proceed. We've got very efficient

14 technicians.


16 Q. So you said that Marko Samardzija gave you some orders; is that

17 correct?

18 A. That's correct. First of all, Marko Samardzija, when we lined up,

19 before we saw about another 20 soldiers who were concealed. And when we

20 lined up, they all came out and surrounded us. Marko Samardzija first of

21 all spoke to Fiko and Osman. I didn't hear this conversation. And then

22 he went in front of the line-up and he said that we had been lined up

23 there and that we would be taken to the elementary school in Biljani. We

24 were told that we had nothing to be afraid of and that whoever was not on

25 the list of Amer Avdic and Amer Filipovic, they would be released and

Page 9002

1 that whoever was on the list would be taken to the police station in

2 Kljuc. I think that at that time, before we headed towards the school,

3 Mladjo said that people over 60 years of age and people under the age of

4 18 could return home. They were the first to leave the line-up. And then

5 in columns, two by two, we headed in the direction of the village and

6 passed through the village in the direction of the elementary school in

7 Biljani.

8 Q. You said that you were lined up and they surrounded you. Can you

9 be more specific. Who surrounded you?

10 A. Marko Samardzija personally ordered us to line up two by two, so

11 one behind the other. And then once we had lined up, from the surrounding

12 hedges and from behind trees, from the shadows soldiers approached. And

13 when they approached us, I knew them all because these were inhabitants

14 who were wearing uniforms, olive-grey uniforms, people from Lancari and

15 Gologlavo. I personally knew these people since this is my neighbourhood.

16 Q. And did you know which unit these people belonged? Were they just

17 regular -- were they regular soldiers or reserve soldiers or policemen?

18 A. I think they were from the reserve forces of the JNA army, given

19 that these same units knew on previous occasions to go to the battlefield

20 from the direction of Sanica, they would go to Jajce, to Bihac, et cetera.

21 Q. So as you said, you were lined up and you were ordered towards the

22 Biljani school. What happened when you approached the school? What did

23 you see?

24 A. About 20 or 30 metres from the school -- as we approached it, the

25 first thing I noticed was there were quite a few soldiers there. And then

Page 9003

1 in front of the shop that we had in Biljani, I saw about 20 or 30 women in

2 front of the shop and they were surrounded by soldiers. And then as we

3 moved on, in front of the school itself I saw a white van. And in front

4 of that white van, there were policemen. In this case, they were wearing

5 camouflage uniforms, all of them, and they had white belts. At that

6 moment they were putting their belts on and their pistols and truncheons

7 and they were putting their gloves on, because I knew one of the young men

8 personally and one of them said, "Look, they're good soldiers. All sorts

9 of things are going to happen here." And then 5 metres on, Marko

10 Samardzija was going there and in front of a tree, in front of the school

11 itself, Tomic, the commander of the police in Sanica was standing there,

12 and another person was standing there, Marceta. I didn't know him

13 personally. I knew him by sight. And then there was another person

14 standing there, a couple of people. I knew the director of the factory in

15 Sanica. He was one of the persons I knew. I can't remember his first and

16 last name, but I knew him personally because I would go to the factory

17 very often to buy material there. And then we continued to advance and we

18 entered the school. We went into the corridor.

19 Q. Can you describe the school, the building. Was it a ground floor

20 building with floors? How many rooms were inside?

21 A. Part of the building was on the ground floor, but above a

22 classroom -- there were only three classrooms in the building, 2 by length

23 and 1 across and there was a common room above one of the classrooms,

24 the last one and the common room, there was a two-roomed flat, which was

25 used by Slavko, who up until then had been the teacher. And his wife

Page 9004

1 Tanja, they taught in that school.

2 Q. So when you said, if I understand correctly, on the ground floor

3 there were two classrooms and one common room; is that correct?

4 A. Three classrooms and one common room. Two classrooms were

5 extended lengthwise, and then the third one was across. I can draw a

6 sketch for you if you like, since I went to this school for four years.

7 Q. I think this was quite -- it's quite obvious how the school looks

8 like.

9 You were asked -- you were ordered to the ground floor classrooms.

10 A. I still haven't said. When we entered the hall, there were about

11 ten policemen there and they were in camouflage uniform and had white

12 belts. They had previously searched us. And everything we had in our

13 pockets and on us, they took all this away, our watches, for example. And

14 then as they searched each person, they would send that person to the

15 classroom.

16 In the first classroom -- the first classroom was already full and

17 the inhabitants of Brkici -- we inhabitants of Brkici filled up the second

18 classroom.

19 Q. Do you know -- you said the first classroom was already full, so

20 you -- were you able to look inside and tell us how many people

21 approximately could be inside?

22 A. I can't assess this figure with precision. All I know is that all

23 the seats had been taken. So in a classroom, there'd be up to 35 seats.

24 I couldn't see everything, but I know that there were other people

25 standing around against the wall.

Page 9005

1 Q. So you were ordered to the second classroom; is that correct?

2 A. That's correct.

3 Q. Were there already some people inside of the classroom?

4 A. Yes, there were some people there.

5 Q. And at the end, how many -- approximately how many people were

6 inside of this second classroom?

7 A. In my opinion, I think there were about 60 and something people

8 from Brkici and at least another 30 others, since later on five or six

9 people entered. So in my opinion, between 90 and 100 people were there.

10 Q. When this classroom was full, did you see that some other people

11 would enter the school or were approaching the school?

12 A. No, I didn't. Only about half an hour later through the window

13 one young man said, since I was sitting next to the window, he said, "Here

14 are the people from Botonici." There were about 30 people from Botonici

15 and they were brought in next to the school -- I don't know where they

16 went. They didn't enter the classroom where we were.

17 Q. So when you were inside of the classroom, what happened?

18 A. For the first half an hour, nothing happened. And then, half an

19 hour later, Mihic first came. I know he was the commander -- the deputy

20 commander, since Mujo told me that he was deputy commander of the police

21 in Sanica. And he was a mechanic, an auto mechanic, and he would often

22 come to my house since he repaired my television. Mihic was the first to

23 enter. He said we should calm down a little. And he said that he would

24 compile some sort of a list and make a record and he said that we had

25 nothing to be afraid of. And after -- first of all, he started making

Page 9006

1 this list. And about ten minutes later, Lazic, a young man, turned up,

2 also from the neighbourhood, and he was a member of the reserve forces of

3 the police. He was wearing a blue police uniform. He carried on

4 compiling this list. And we provided our full names and the date -- our

5 dates of birth and the names of our fathers for this list. Once they had

6 finished making the record, they left the premises. And in front of the

7 premises there was a policeman in camouflage uniform who stood outside all

8 the time. He had a rifle and he was standing at the door itself. The

9 door was open almost all the time.

10 Q. So when this policeman took all your names, what happened after

11 that?

12 A. For the next ten minutes or so -- I don't know -- a soldier

13 entered. He only read out ten names from a list. And once he had checked

14 the names of these people, the people responded to this -- to these names

15 that had been read out and then he left the classroom. And then 10 or 15

16 minutes later, from the hall -- no one else entered any more, but from the

17 hall we were told that -- that Mujezinovic Smail should come out. And a

18 few minutes after Smail you could hear the name Domazet Hamdija being

19 called out and then Habir and after Habir, Omer Dervisevic, and after

20 Omer, Efriam and his two sons and then Avdic Smail and then it was

21 Ale Cajic's turn. Ale Cajic was next to me. And when he got to the door,

22 he intended to return. This all lasted for about 15 minutes. When he

23 wanted to return to pick up his jacket, he told the policeman at the door

24 that he had forgotten his jacket. The policeman told him, "You won't need

25 it any more. You don't have to return to get it." And after each person

Page 9007

1 had left --

2 Q. Mr. Cajic, I will stop you here because I would like to use a

3 document. And I think we will have some discussions about this document.

4 And I would like to leave it after the break, because I think this is the

5 most suitable time for the break.

6 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. Thank you. Thank you. So we'll have

7 20-minute break, resuming sharp at 5.00, please. Thank you.

8 --- Recess taken at 4.39 p.m.

9 --- On resuming at 5.02 p.m.

10 JUDGE AGIUS: [Microphone not activated]

11 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please, Your Honour.

12 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. In the meantime, you can phrase your question,

13 Madam Richterova, please.

14 MS. RICHTEROVA: In fact, I do not want to phrase --

15 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, I think perhaps without the presence of

16 Defence counsel ...

17 JUDGE AGIUS: They are on the way. I saw them coming. I mean, we

18 said 5.00. It's after 5.00. We've lost five minutes.

19 MS. RICHTEROVA: I do -- for now, I do not want to ask a

20 question. I want to show the witness the document, which is 9.474. And

21 it is the exhumation report which we disclosed on Friday.

22 MR. ZECEVIC: [Microphone not activated]

23 JUDGE AGIUS: So please hand the witness document P1071. Is it

24 that document?

25 MS. RICHTEROVA: Yes, it is a document which I would like to

Page 9008

1 tender into evidence under P1071.

2 Your Honour, this is an exhumation report which will be dealt with

3 in details by our expert witness on exhumations. And I do not want to go

4 into any details with this witness. I only want him to confirm or not

5 confirm names of people, whether he saw them, whether he knew them, and

6 that's all what I want to do with this witness. This document is in

7 B/C/S. And it has been sent for translation with the amount of documents

8 which refers to exhumations, we are just not able to receive all

9 translations in time. But by the time when our expert will testify, we

10 will have all relevant translations in our hands. So I would like to ask

11 you whether you agree that I will use this document which is only in

12 original language.

13 JUDGE AGIUS: Is there any objection forthcoming from the Defence?

14 I think, considering that she's only going to refer to names and not to

15 details, we can -- we can move ahead. Okay?

16 Yes, you may proceed along the lines you've indicated and not

17 beyond for the time being.


19 Q. Before we adjourned, you listed names of people who were called

20 out from the corridor. Do you still remember the names you mentioned?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Would you be so kind and open -- open the document which you have

23 in front of you. And on the right-hand bottom side, you will see

24 numbers. And I -- I would like to go to number 145, on the right-hand

25 bottom side. It's --

Page 9009

1 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Thank you, usher, for helping.

2 MS. RICHTEROVA: It's also ERN number 00473481.

3 Q. Can you see it?

4 A. I can.

5 Q. There is body number 79. Can you read the name, please, under

6 this number.

7 A. Yes, Dervisevic Omer.

8 Q. Is this the person who was called and who was on the list which

9 was read by that policeman?

10 JUDGE AGIUS: I think -- sorry to interrupt you, but I think you

11 have to perfect this line of -- this series of questions. At this point

12 in time, although I don't understand the language, I think while the

13 witness has the document in front of him and he's being referred to a

14 particular person with number 79 and the name of this person being

15 identified by you as Omer Dervisevic, I think we need to proceed -- if

16 you're going to ask him whether he's the same person, you need to proceed

17 with the rest of the details contained in the first line, which is son of

18 Feta and born, et cetera.

19 MS. RICHTEROVA: Yes, Your Honour. I will do it.

20 JUDGE AGIUS: Otherwise the question does not really follow. You

21 know, I mean ...

22 MS. RICHTEROVA: I apologise. Thank you.

23 JUDGE AGIUS: It's not a question of apologising. It's a question

24 of trying to streamline the questions -- or the system of questioning so

25 that it makes more sense.

Page 9010


2 Q. So Mr. Cajic, can you read the name and other whereabouts of that

3 person under number 79, please.

4 A. I can read it out and I can also say that Omer Dervisevic is the

5 son of Feta and Duda that he was born in 1964, that he is the father of

6 two children, a son and a daughter who are now 11 and 8 years old

7 respectively.

8 JUDGE AGIUS: Listen to me. Let's do it differently. When

9 Madam Richterova refers you to a particular person or name indicated in

10 this document, please just look at the first line or so where the name and

11 the personal details are listed and answer the question whether you think

12 that the person mentioned in this document is the same person that you

13 referred to previously in your evidence before we had a break. Just say,

14 "Yes, this seems to be the same person or I'm sure it's the same person,

15 no, I have doubts," and then you explain why you have doubts. Do you

16 understand me? Can you follow me?

17 Yes, yes, I know but --

18 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I do understand. Fully.

19 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, Mr. Ackerman.

20 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, I think there may be some kind of an

21 error in the transcript or translation or something.

22 JUDGE AGIUS: I wouldn't be surprised.

23 MR. ACKERMAN: The question -- it's at line -- the question and

24 answer beginning at 4825 going on to 49.1 through 5. We're talking about

25 someone who was allegedly killed in 1992. And the transcript indicates

Page 9011












12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and

13 English transcripts.













Page 9012

1 that he has an eight--year-old daughter or son. I can't tell which,

2 which -- you know, it's not possible, I don't think. So I think there

3 must have been misinterpretation or something.

4 JUDGE AGIUS: When you referred to Omer Dervisevic and you said he

5 was son of Feta and Duda, he was born in 1964. He was the father of two

6 children, a son and a daughter, who are now -- how old are they now?

7 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Now the son is about 11 or 12 and

8 the daughter is 8 or 9, just now, at this point in time. I'm not sure,

9 but I do know them personally, as Omer Dervisevic's house is only 200

10 metres away from mine.

11 JUDGE AGIUS: Let's leave it. Let's not go into details.

12 Go ahead, Ms. Richterova.


14 Q. So Mr. Cajic, do you confirm -- do you confirm whether it -- it is

15 the person who was called?

16 A. That is true. That was the person who was called out. He was the

17 third or fourth in order. I'm not quite sure, but that is Omer

18 Dervisevic.

19 Q. Can you have a look at the following page. On the top you will

20 see the words "Usrok Smrti." Would you be so kind and --

21 MR. ZECEVIC: I'm sorry. I have to object at this time, Your

22 Honour, because we -- we were of understanding that only the names and the

23 whereabouts of that person indicated who this person was were the -- were

24 the basis of this --

25 JUDGE AGIUS: What does -- what does "Usrok Smrti" mean in any

Page 9013

1 case.

2 MR. ZECEVIC: "Usrok Smrti" means the cause of death.

3 JUDGE AGIUS: Yeah. But forget about that. Because that you're

4 going to establish by means of an expert witness, you say. So we don't --

5 it's okay.

6 MR. ZECEVIC: How could the witness know.


8 MR. ZECEVIC: And Your Honour, if I may say one thing: In my

9 opinion, it would be much more appropriate if we go through the -- through

10 the witness's statement where the witness has listed the names of the

11 persons and give us all the details that he knows about these persons and

12 not to consult this document, because it is obvious that there is some

13 misunderstandings. And this might be understood as indication that the

14 certain corpse does belong to that person. For example, the corpse 81 is

15 without a head. How can it be decided that it is this person after all?

16 JUDGE AGIUS: No. But there I don't agree with you. I don't

17 agree with you. It could be done, the way you are suggesting. It's

18 true. But it could also be done the way it is being done now. And

19 it's -- the Prosecution is seeking to prove is nexus between the names

20 that appear on this document on which then someone else will testify and

21 the names that the witness mentioned; in other words, whether the witness

22 recognises in the name on this -- on the face of this document the same

23 person that he's referring to before.

24 MR. ZECEVIC: I understand fully, Your Honours. But it's the --

25 it's the matter of asking the witness the names and the particulars about

Page 9014

1 a certain person --

2 JUDGE AGIUS: But let's proceed the way we are doing. And I will

3 not allow the question, of course, that Madam Richterova was trying to

4 put.

5 MR. ZECEVIC: Thank you, Your Honours.

6 JUDGE AGIUS: Move to the second -- thank you. Move to the next

7 name, if you're finished with this one.

8 MS. RICHTEROVA: Yes. I'm not quite sure whether the witness

9 answered my question, because I do not have it here. So if you allow me,

10 I will --

11 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, I think he did answer your question. He says

12 it's the same person.

13 MS. RICHTEROVA: Thank you.

14 Q. Then I would like you --

15 JUDGE AGIUS: According to him, you know.


17 Q. -- to have a look at the page 149, which is on the right-hand

18 bottom side. And the ERN number is 00473485. If you could have a look

19 under the number 101.

20 JUDGE AGIUS: It's barely legible here.

21 MS. RICHTEROVA: It's barely legible. I agree but we do not have

22 a better copy?

23 A. Yes, I can. Cajic Ale.

24 Q. Can you read the whole whereabouts which are next to this name?

25 A. Cajic Ale, son of Muharem, born on the 9th of April, 1955, from

Page 9015

1 Donji Biljani.

2 Q. Is this the same person you were referring to in your previous

3 testimony?

4 A. Yes, it is the same person, the last person that left, who is my

5 cousin and who left his jacket behind in the classroom.

6 Q. And I will ask you last name in this series. If you could go to

7 the page number 159, which is also marked as 00473495. And if you could

8 have a look at the number 139. Can you read the name and the whereabouts.

9 A. Domazet Hamdija, son of -- I can't see the name. Born on the 15th

10 of April, 1946, from Donji Biljani. Yes, as the year of birth coincides.

11 I can't read out the name of the father.

12 Q. So --

13 A. That is that person, yes.

14 Q. Now I will move further. You said after -- what happened in the

15 room after these persons were called out? Could you here something

16 outside?

17 A. I already mentioned that after the -- each one of these persons

18 were led out, five or ten minutes later one could hear bursts of

19 fire and shots. At one point the policeman who was guarding the classroom

20 smiled and said, "You see how your Green Berets are attacking us. But

21 we'll fix it in a moment. Don't worry. No one will hurt you. We'll get

22 rid of them soon." And after the last one left, Mihic came again and

23 ordered that we get ready, that five by five we would be leaving in the

24 order when the soldier tells us we can leave. And the first groups of men

25 started leaving in fives.

Page 9016

1 Q. You were inside of the room and you said that after these people

2 left, you could hear the burst of fire. Were you able to see something

3 from the window?

4 A. Correct. While the men were leaving in groups of five, before

5 Mr. Mihic came, the deputy commander of the police. In the meantime two

6 buses arrived from the direction of Kljuc and they parked in front of the

7 school. As I was sitting next to the window, I saw half of a bus in front

8 of the school and I saw when another gentleman arrived wearing a blue

9 uniform who greeted Marko Samardzija. I didn't see who else was there,

10 but I remember that the director of the sawmill was there and some other

11 men, five or six of them. And from the classroom I could see some men

12 were being loaded onto the bus and being beaten in front of the bus.

13 Q. Could I ask --

14 A. Then I saw --

15 Q. I will stop you. If you could speak a little bit slower for the

16 interpreters. And I would like to ask you, you said you saw Marko

17 Samardzija outside at the time when the buses arrived. Is it correct?

18 A. Correct.

19 Q. Do you by any chance know approximately what time it was?

20 A. I'm not able to say. I just know that it was about half past 9.00

21 because according to some estimates, between 7.00 and 9.00 we were in the

22 classroom and when we started leaving, it was about 9.00, and this went on

23 for the next half hour or 45 minutes, so it was between 9.00 and 10.00 in

24 the morning.

25 Q. So I interrupted you at the moment when you said you were able to

Page 9017

1 see through the window buses and some people being beaten in front of the

2 buses. Please go on, what more you saw.

3 A. Correct. After that I saw Mile, Bakan. Mile, also known as

4 Bakan, I knew him. He would come to our village frequently. He took five

5 men across the road, close to a house. And shortly after that -- or

6 rather, throughout we could hear shooting. After a while, he came back

7 alone. In the meantime, it was already my turn to leave the classroom,

8 which I did, and I stood right in front of the door. In the meantime,

9 Osman Avdic, apparently saw something and said, "Men, hurry into the

10 buses. They'll kill us all." I was just leaving the classroom at that

11 point in time with another five men, and I reached the hallway. There was

12 a policeman there in camouflage uniform. And from the hallway he would

13 let one by one pass. I didn't see anything clearly except two soldiers.

14 When I reached the actual door, when my turn came, I managed to see

15 through the door, which was open all the time, that the policeman in front

16 was beating Fiko Balagic and running after him. Then I saw some 10 or 15

17 older men leaning against a wall across the way from the school with their

18 hands behind their heads, and I remember a policeman saying to me, "Why

19 did they bring you here?" And I said, "I have no idea. I haven't done

20 anything." And then he said, "You are free to go." And as I set off, in

21 the meantime just as I was about to leave Fiko was already entering the

22 bus and I looked forward towards the bus and I saw the whole yard in front

23 of the school, as I was going down the steps. Just then I again saw this

24 same group under the linden tree and 10 or 15 policemen who had made a

25 line up to the bus, then 20 or 30 reservists, reserve soldiers standing

Page 9018

1 next to them. I also saw on the fence a friend of mine -- I'm sorry.

2 First I saw Dragan Cvijic, who used to work in the coffee bar that I made

3 in Kljuc. Since I knew him well, I looked him in the eye and I thought he

4 would help me, because someone has recognised me, and he looked me in the

5 eye. At that moment he turned his head away. And as I passed by him, I

6 felt him turn around quickly, so I too turned around. So with the toe of

7 his shoe, he kicked me in the ribs and also with his fist. And just then

8 I realised that I, too, would be beaten, and I hurried between the line to

9 get onto the bus. This lasted for about 10 or 15 seconds, the length of

10 the bus. I don't know what they beat me with nor how, but I know I

11 reached the door of the bus, where there was another policeman and five or

12 six other men. He was standing on the steps of the bus, and he asked me,

13 "Do you want to sit down?" I didn't know what to say.

14 In the meantime, the men behind me were being beaten on the back

15 and everywhere else. After 10 or 15 seconds - I don't remember exactly

16 how long this went on for - I was shoved into the bus and I was ordered to

17 go to the very back, to crawl to the back of the bus, which I did. And

18 all I was able to see in the bus was that some people were sitting. There

19 was no sitting room, so I sat at the very back door so that in front of me

20 was the glass window of the bus. In front of me was Refik Avdic, and

21 behind me Fiko Balagic. I was hurting all over, and orders were coming,

22 "Heads down. Don't look through the window," and things like that.

23 In the meantime, while I was inside already, I heard that they

24 were bringing the next group, beating them. If somebody fell, they would

25 say, "Take him away. He's not fit for anything." Then he would say,

Page 9019

1 "Leave this one to me. He's mine." And there were all kinds of such

2 things. They beat them, and all the time until the bus was packed full.

3 I had in front of me this linden tree, this tree, and all this. And I had

4 to watch, because I was sitting on the back seat. In the meantime, the

5 man up front said, "There's no more room in the bus." And then I heard

6 and saw one of the soldiers ordering us to bow our heads and lie down, and

7 I heard when one soldier walked up to this group, I saw him walk up to

8 this group under the linden tree and ask, "What are we going to do with

9 the others when they can't fit into the bus?" And one of them - I don't

10 know who - said, "Kill them all. We don't need them any more." And

11 before that, I heard Osman being taken out and a man saying, "Leave him to

12 me. He used to work in the military department." And I don't know what

13 he said to him. I couldn't understand. The door of the bus closed, and

14 after that I was not able to see

15 anything else.

16 Q. Do you know approximately how many people were inside of this

17 bus?

18 A. Given that I went to school in these buses, I know that there are

19 between 45 and 55 seats and not more than 25 could have fitted in the

20 corridor. About 75.

21 Q. Did you see whether the other bus was full of people as well?

22 A. No, not at that time. I didn't see the other bus.

23 Q. So you were inside of the bus. And what happened further?

24 A. Shortly afterwards, shooting could be heard, bursts of fire.

25 There was noise. Then the bus left. And it hadn't -- after about 10

Page 9020

1 metres it stopped, a soldier entered again. He had a white belt on, and

2 he wanted four strong young men. And since he went up front -- we were

3 looking at him. We wanted to know what he wanted. He then chose first of

4 all two men and then another two, four in all, and he told the others to

5 bow our heads and not to move, and we did this.

6 Q. Do you know -- do you know any names of these four men who were

7 taken out?

8 A. Yes. I could recognise the first two men. My relative was there,

9 Avdic Amer, and I think Mujo Zukanovic was there, since he was a big man

10 and he had a moustache. I saw him briefly.

11 Q. So after these two men were taken out, what happened further? Did

12 the bus went on, or did you stop?

13 A. I said four men. I saw the first two men. I didn't see the other

14 two. The bus carried on, and he immediately told the person in uniform --

15 it went for another 100 metres or so. And the driver at that moment for

16 some unknown reason stopped. The bus came to a halt. A soldier entered,

17 and he asked for another five men. However, when some of them started

18 getting up, he said, "No, I don't want those in front. I want those at

19 the back." The driver opened the door. Since I've already said that Fiko

20 Balagic was sitting next to me, on the seat above the door itself

21 Avdic Besim was sitting there and Rufad Hodzic. They were the first two

22 to leave. And then I went out. And at that point in time I only saw Fiko

23 behind me. I saw Fiko. We headed towards -- the bus slowed down, which

24 was 10 metres away. And since they had told me we were going to the other

25 bus. When I was passing by the bus -- I almost had one foot in the bus

Page 9021

1 already. I looked inside and saw that there were only ten men in uniform.

2 One of them said, "No, not here. You don't have to go in here. You're

3 going to the back." I returned back, and I was the last person in the

4 line. Avdic Alija was in front of me. And we moved on in this way, one

5 in front, one behind.

6 We passed Mehmed Avdic and went down towards his stable. And when

7 we got to the stable, these people in front stopped and cried out, "What's

8 this, for God's sake," something like that. And since I couldn't move on

9 because of them, the person behind me shoved his rifle in my back and

10 said, "Advance, you balija." These people passed by. And when it was my

11 turn, I had a look below. There were four bodies from the previous ones I

12 already -- I recognised Amer Avdic. And the others -- I assumed the other

13 was Muja, and Rufad, who was the first man, when he passed over them he

14 turned right. When I passed over, I saw Besim turning left and I followed

15 him. We had only gone four or five steps when again a voice was heard and

16 they said, "You balijas, stop there. You're not going to go very far,"

17 and they started shooting. With the first burst of fire I only saw Besim

18 in front of me. I saw that he had lied down in front of me, and he

19 collapsed. At the moment I didn't know what to do. My legs failed me or

20 something like that happened. I threw myself down next to Besim, half a

21 metre in front, next to Besim himself. And as I had already seen that --

22 they all had automatic weapons. They had double clips. They were stuck

23 together. When they changed the clips, they started shooting again. I

24 wasn't hit by the second burst of fire either. And the third time they

25 continued shooting, on each occasion I was wondering what would happen,

Page 9022

1 but nothing hand on that occasion either. Things calmed down a bit. In

2 the meantime, I heard them calling from the bus and saying, "Hurry up, you

3 people down there. We're going to head towards Kljuc now." I can also

4 remember that another one of us was still groaning, and he cried out, "The

5 person there to the right is still alive," and he fired a burst of fire

6 for the fourth time. And I remember that the bullets passed over me,

7 since there was earth falling on me. They waited for minute, and then I

8 heard them moving away from the bodies or in fact moving away from that

9 stable.

10 Shortly afterwards you could hear the buses. They turned the

11 engine on and they headed in the direction of Kljuc. In the meantime, a

12 house was on fire in front and down below there was a house too and there

13 was smoke which started bothering -- irritating my eyes. From all the

14 directions, from everywhere, you could hear bursts of fires, groans,

15 singing, all sorts of songs, and shortly afterwards, only ten minutes

16 later, I didn't know where to go or what to do. I was quite simply

17 paralysed. All my life unfolded in front of me in a minute. I asked

18 myself what to do, where to go. And on the basis of previous occasions --

19 I know what happened in Velabici [phoen]. I know that they first of all

20 killed the people and they were collected by -- I knew they would come and

21 solve this too, deal with this too.

22 In the meantime, they came singing -- I won't say at the moment

23 whether they were soldiers or who they were. I know that they came. And

24 since there was a cafe there, say started shooting around it, they started

25 singing, and they started destroying the furniture. And then you could

Page 9023

1 hear them moving around the house. They passed down below the house and

2 some people called out. They said, "Have a look down here. There are

3 others down there." And someone would say, "No, I don't want to. I've

4 had enough today and then you heard someone say, "I'm going to set this

5 house on fire." And another person would say, "Don't. Perhaps someone

6 might need it." And then someone would say, "Who will need it. They

7 don't need it anymore." And then someone replied, "We'll need it

8 perhaps. Perhaps we would live in that house in the future. It's a pity

9 to destroy such houses. And then all sorts of things were discussed about

10 how many people had been killed. No problem.

11 Q. Mr. Cajic, if you want --

12 JUDGE AGIUS: [Microphone not activated] Mr. Cajic, if you need a

13 break, I'll give you a break.

14 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No, it's fine. No. Thank you.


16 Q. Mr. Cajic --

17 JUDGE AGIUS: Any time you need us to stop, let us know.

18 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, Your Honour, please.

19 JUDGE AGIUS: Any time you need us to stop to give you a break,

20 let us know. If you need anything, please let us know.


22 Q. Mr. Cajic, you mentioned that when you were taken out of the bus

23 and you started running and they were shooting on you that Besim fell down

24 next to you. What was his last name?

25 A. His name was Avdic Besim. He was born either in 1967 or 1968.

Page 9024

1 I'm not sure. He was also the father of two children, and his house is

2 only 20 metres away from mine.

3 Q. And you were also referring to some Fiko, which is most probably a

4 nickname. Do you know what was the name of that person?

5 A. Balagic [Realtime transcript read in error "Alagic"] Fikret, son

6 of Arif. He was 54 or 55 years old. He was the secretary of the

7 municipality in Kljuc. He lived in Brkici in the hamlet. Only -- his

8 house was only 100 metres away from mine.

9 Q. And did you see other bodies when you stood up?

10 A. Yes. At that point, once the soldiers had left, half an hour or

11 an hour had passed by. I'm not sure. I stayed there, lying. I turned my

12 head around a bit to see what there was behind me, and I saw -- I saw the

13 eight bodies, all of the eight bodies. My first thought was that I had to

14 flee. And I knew that I had to flee because they would come. I started

15 crawling. And after half a metre or a metre I turned to look behind me

16 and I saw that there was grass behind me. I returned a bit -- returned

17 back and then I jumped up and went to the first tree, which was about four

18 steps away, and I hid there. There was a small sort of wood there.

19 Q. I will stop you here for a second. And I would like to show you

20 the page 150 in the exhumation report, which is 00473486. A second ago --

21 can you have a look at the number 102. And I only want to confirm whether

22 it was -- whether you -- we got the name you said a second ago correctly.

23 Can you read this name and whether it is the same person you are referring

24 to as the person who was there with you or whether it is a different name.

25 A. Yes, Balagic Fikret, son of Arif, born on the 17th of April, 1940

Page 9025

1 in Donji Biljani. So at the time he was 52 years old. So this coincides.

2 I'm not sure for a year or two.

3 Q. It's only because in the transcript was Fikret Alagic, and I

4 didn't know whether we got the name correctly. So it -- the correct name

5 is Balagic Fikret.

6 A. Balagic.

7 Q. Thank you.

8 A. That's right.

9 Q. So after you stood up and crawled away, what happened? What did

10 you see? Where did you go?

11 A. I turned around again just to have a look, to make sure that there

12 was no one in the vicinity of the house. And I then saw the bodies there

13 again. There was no one around the house, and I moved about 10 metres

14 away from that site. I was always aware of the fact that they might come

15 and look for me and that they would follow my trail. I only rested there

16 for a short while and then I carried on crawling. I went to a place about

17 20 or 30 metres away, and I entered this area and I then heard shooting.

18 I wasn't sure and I didn't feel secure in that place either and I

19 continued crawling towards the river, which is about 100 metres from that

20 place and from the site where the houses are located. I went into the

21 cornfield which -- where I felt a little freer. And I had to carry on a

22 bit to place myself in this cornfield and I spent the whole night there.

23 You could hear shooting throughout the day, bursts of firing in Biljani.

24 And I saw from that place, since the Gologlavo, certain young men went to

25 the hamlet of Gologlavo, and I saw them passing by going to their houses

Page 9026

1 and I heard them shooting all the time. I stayed there until night fell,

2 until about 11.00 or half past 11.00, I'm not sure. And just before dusk

3 I heard from the direction of Kljuc how some heavy vehicles were arriving.

4 At the time I couldn't recognise them, but I know that these were lorries

5 and excavators. And I heard someone calling out, "Come here. Come to

6 this house so that we can collect these things here, these people here."

7 And then afterwards you would hear another voice saying,"Come here. Come

8 here too." And this continues until 11.00 at night. I'm not sure how --

9 for how long exactly, but I know that it continued late into the night.

10 Q. And what did you do after this? Where did you go?

11 A. That evening I went to my house. I found my father and my family

12 there. They asked me what had happened. At that time I wasn't able to

13 tell them much. All I know is I said that quite a few people had been

14 killed. I asked about my brother. I asked whether he returned. They

15 said, "No one has been returned -- no one returned, apart from Mujo Cajic

16 Dzaferagic Semso, Zukanovic Ismet, Omanovic Semsa, and Ismet's

17 relative -- I don't know -- Ismet's nephew, I can't remember his name.

18 Q. How long did you stay in Brkici?

19 A. In the morning, since I wanted to establish contact with Muja

20 and Semso Dzaferagic, they told me that they would come to search the

21 villages, that some soldiers would come to search the villages and they

22 told me that I should flee from the village. This is what I did. I took

23 clothes from my sister and I went to the nearby wood. And on that

24 evening, late that evening, because Mujo and Semso was fleeing because

25 someone had come to the village. You could hear the sound of an engine

Page 9027

1 and shooting. They fled from the village. And since I was above the

2 village, I wanted to have the village in front of me so that I could

3 observe what was happening, what was being done. I went to see them. And

4 we met there. And for the next seven days or up until ten days we spent

5 this time without food in a cave. And -- but we were no longer able to

6 carry on like that, so we then had to approach houses, since Mujo Cajic's

7 house is in a prominent place, his father's house, and his house. It's in

8 the vicinity of the wood, the first houses that were there. We approached

9 these houses and this is where we established contact for the first time

10 and that evening we even managed to have a shower, have a bath, and have

11 something to eat. And shortly afterwards, three or four days later, since

12 the commander of the police, Tomic, came to the villages. He was looking

13 for Semso Dzaferagic and he took him to Kljuc. I stayed on with Mujo

14 Cajic and hid in the woods, in the cornfields. And when Mujo's wife

15 established contact - I'm not sure with whom - he too, was transferred to

16 Kljuc, taken to Kljuc. So this continued for about a month. And I stayed

17 in Biljani for another month. I spent this time on my own in the woods or

18 in the vicinity of houses, where I would get food. And in September, on

19 the 20th, I think -- or in fact, on the 10th of September, my sister got

20 into contact with a Serb and they transferred me to Kljuc. And on behalf

21 of other -- I took some sort of card in another person's name for a convoy

22 for Travnik. I think I left for Travnik on the 20th of September, in a

23 trailer which was full of people.

24 Q. While hiding in the cornfield and the forest, were you able to

25 observe the hamlets, villages? Did you see in which conditions were

Page 9028

1 houses? Did you see what happened if anything happened, to mosques or

2 other religious buildings in your area?

3 A. The shooting was very intense for the first few days, on the 10th

4 of July, and then it calmed down for a while. And quite often I heard

5 Serbian soldiers coming to the village, looking for something. On one

6 evening I knew and I recognised the voices of my sister and of my mother.

7 When my mother was crying, I didn't know what was being done, but when she

8 started crying and shouting, "Where are you take my daughter," I heard

9 that he cursed her and my sister and said, "Go away," or something like

10 that. And then on one evening I heard them going to Avdic Alija's house,

11 because I was very near that house. I didn't see who it was and I can't

12 confirm this at the moment, but I do know -- I personally know that they

13 took a child out. I think that Buco [phoen] was the child's name. I

14 can't remember the exact name. I've forgotten it. They took the child

15 out. At the time the child was three or four years old. And all the time

16 they were saying -- since he was a salesman, he had a shop there. He

17 said -- he told his wife, "If you don't give us money, we'll kill the

18 child." I know that she gave them something because half an hour or an

19 hour later, after they had that quarrelled and after she had cried a lot,

20 they left the village and the woman stayed on. I remember --

21 Q. Mr. Cajic, my question was slightly different. I asked you about

22 the houses and the religious buildings. So if you would be so kind and

23 answer this question.

24 A. Very well. That's no problem. I said that for the first few days

25 they set the houses on fire. And this was quite intense. But 15 or 20

Page 9029

1 days later, while I was sleeping in the cornfields, a loud explosion could

2 be heard. I didn't know what was being done. I didn't know what was

3 happening. But on the following day I heard, since I went to get food,

4 that on that evening they had mined the mosque but they hadn't managed to

5 destroy it. It remained intact. And from the woods and the cornfields

6 where I hid, I spent the night in the cornfields. And in the daytime I

7 was in the woods because it was more secure for me and I could see the

8 entire village from there and I would know whether someone was coming to

9 the village.

10 I saw this on that morning. I saw the mosque and I saw that they

11 didn't destroy it, but they had mined it. But on that day they didn't

12 destroy it entirely. They only managed to set it on fire this was a

13 result of the explosives. And about a day or a day afterwards -- I think

14 it was about midnight. I heard a loud explosion. I assumed -- I guessed

15 what this was. And I had a look towards minarets, to the tower, and it

16 wasn't there any more.

17 Q. You said that you were able to observe the whole village. Can you

18 tell us what happened, if anything, to the houses.

19 A. In the hamlet of Brkici, they only set one house on fire. But as

20 I said, a day or two or three days after the 10th of July, I personally

21 saw how the houses around the mosque were burning and houses around the

22 school and in Osmanovici and in Jabukovac and in Polje. There were houses

23 burning there.

24 MS. RICHTEROVA: I would like to play a video. It's an excerpt

25 from the video which we already saw right at the beginning. It was the

Page 9030

1 video taken from -- by Mazhar Inayat, and we saw it at the beginning. And

2 this excerpt is from Kljuc. The exhibit number was or is P447. And I

3 would like the technicians to play this video.

4 [Videotape played]

5 MS. RICHTEROVA: Can you pause it here.

6 Q. Can you tell us what can we see on this picture.

7 A. Here you can see the centre of Biljani itself. This is the very

8 centre of Biljani. And you have the place where the school was located,

9 Mezernel [phoen], and part of the Cehici hamlet.

10 Q. You are referring where the school was. Can you describe it

11 better for us. How can we recognise where this school was?

12 A. The school is right here, where you can -- where there's an empty

13 space in this part and for the following 25 metres. That's where the

14 school was located.

15 Q. Is it -- what is here -- what is on that place now?

16 A. There is a monument to the mosque there, a monument to those

17 people who were killed. And there are graves there.

18 Q. And graves. So maybe for the record the place with the strips is

19 the graveyard.

20 A. Yes, yes.

21 Q. Is that correct? And then there was the school.

22 Then we can see some roads --

23 A. Yes, that's right.

24 Q. Can you describe the road from the top to the left and to the

25 right, where these roads are heading.

Page 9031

1 A. The road from the direction of Kljuc. There is a road that comes

2 down from -- from up and on the right it goes Dzaferagici and Osmanovici

3 and on the left you can cross the meadow and go to Brkici, and the road in

4 front goes towards Gornja Sanica.

5 Q. And which road were you taken by bus? Is it on this -- can we see

6 it on this picture?

7 A. You can see it clearly. In front of the school, when we left from

8 there, we got to this small entrance to the main road here. And this is

9 where they took four men off the bus. And then they continued up until --

10 Q. Sorry. Excuse me. On the screen, on which side of the screen we

11 can see it?

12 A. On the right-hand side, at the entrance to the school where the

13 cultural centre is, here, in front of the centre you reach the main road

14 from Sanica to Kljuc. And that is where the bus stopped.

15 Q. Can we go on --

16 JUDGE AGIUS: Are these details important for you?

17 MS. RICHTEROVA: It was just for you to have an idea.

18 And if we can play the video. It's very, very short. To see the

19 area.

20 [Videotape played]

21 MS. RICHTEROVA: And if we can see the place where the bus

22 stopped, you can -- we can pause.

23 JUDGE AGIUS: Pause, please.


25 Q. Can we see it now? No?

Page 9032

1 A. One could see it better earlier on. No, it's all right. We can

2 see it now. Here's the road.

3 MS. RICHTEROVA: Can we pause, please.

4 Q. So what can we see now? Can we see it now?

5 A. You can see the spot. It is on the extreme left of the screen,

6 where we see three roads intersecting. So in the middle of the screen

7 there's a very big house. And behind it was where the bus stopped for the

8 second time. And behind the house is the spot where the four men were

9 executed together with me, and before us the other four.

10 MS. RICHTEROVA: You can go on with the video.

11 [Videotape played]

12 MS. RICHTEROVA: And we can stop here. That's all. Thank you.

13 Q. Did you participate in exhumation which took place in Kljuc -- in

14 the Kljuc municipality?

15 A. Yes, I personally took part in the exhumation, as in those days I

16 had returned to my village. I was among the first to return to my village

17 of Brkici.

18 Q. Do you know how many bodies were exhumed and what was the name of

19 the location where the bodies were exhumed?

20 A. Yes. I was personally at the location of Laniste, where about

21 180 bodies were exhumed. I was also present at the exhumation that took

22 place after that, Crvena Zemlja, or "Red Earth," where 15 bodies were

23 exhumed, among others the body of my brother. That was the last body I

24 took out of the pit.

25 Q. Thank you. Now I would like to show you two documents. The first

Page 9033

1 one is -- was pre-marked P986.

2 MS. RICHTEROVA: And if we could place the English version on the


4 Q. I know that you haven't seen this document before, but I will read

5 you slowly parts of this document. And I only want you to confirm whether

6 the actions which are described in this document are consistent with the

7 events which occurred in Biljani.

8 This document is dated 9 of July, 1992 and it was issued by Kljuc

9 command, and it is an order for further operations. And it says: "I have

10 made the following decision: Use a part of the brigade to impose a total

11 blockade, search and mop up the territory in the sectors of Donji Biljani,

12 Domazeti, Botonici, Jabukovac, and Brkici villages.

13 "Readiness for operation, 0500 hours on 10 July 1992. The 2nd

14 Battalion of the 17th Light Infantry Brigade reinforced with a

15 reconnaissance platoon, a military police squad, and a police platoon, is

16 to block, search, and mop up the Donji Biljani, Domazeti, Botonici,

17 Jabukovac, Osmanovici and Brkici sectors."

18 And the last one: "When it gets dark, the platoon is to lay

19 ambushes and bomb the Domazeti-Osljak road. Stay there until 0500 hours

20 on 10 July and then search and mop up Domazeti. It is to join up with

21 other units of the 2nd infantry Battalion in the sector." And now it is

22 unknown. Probably the school in Donji Biljani.

23 And the very last sentence is: "The Sanica police platoon is to

24 move along the Sanica-Jabukavac-Donji Biljani route and establish a

25 checkpoint in the sector of the Donji Biljani school for processing

Page 9034

1 suspicious persons."

2 As you remember, were these places under the search and mop-up of

3 the army?

4 A. I can say with regard to the village of Brkici that it was mopped

5 up in detail and that every male between 18 and 60 was detained.

6 Q. Do you know --

7 MR. ACKERMAN: Excuse me a minute.


9 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, I just noticed that we've got the

10 English version on the ELMO so that the accused can't see the document

11 we're talking about. I thought we were putting the other one on there

12 these days so they could see them.

13 JUDGE AGIUS: I wasn't following the ELMO.

14 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, we discussed this before. Last time

15 we were in closed session; it didn't matter. But there are members of

16 the public here. They can follow what everybody is talking about. So I'm

17 afraid the accused will have to be given by their counsel copies of the

18 documents if they want to follow it.

19 JUDGE AGIUS: I think Ms. Korner is right, Mr. Ackerman. If we

20 can -- when we are in closed session and we can go round that, we do. But

21 when we are in open session, I'm afraid this is how it has to be done.

22 MR. ACKERMAN: I agree. My mistake.

23 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you.

24 Go ahead.

25 MS. RICHTEROVA: Now I would like to show the witness the second

Page 9035

1 document, which was pre-marked as Exhibit P986.

2 Q. And it is the same situation. I know that you haven't seen this

3 document, but I only want you to tell us whether it is consistent with

4 what really happened. So this document is an official note. And it's an

5 official note dated the 10th of July, 1992. And it says that it was

6 compiled in the Sanica SRM, which is reserve police station.

7 Further it says: "On the evening of 9 July 1992, I was informed

8 by the commander of the battalion quartered in Sanica that on the 10th of

9 July his units would undertake a mopping-up operation of the terrain,

10 meaning the area of the villages Gornji Biljani and Donji Biljani."

11 It further says: "On 10th of July, in the early morning hours,

12 the military units began the action, which included clearing out these

13 villages along with the hamlets of Jabukovac, Botonici, Brkici,

14 Osmanovici, Mesani, and Domazeti. It was planned to put the military

15 prisoners in the area school in Biljani."

16 And the last sentence -- last but one: "We were in constant

17 communication with organs of the military authorities. At the end of

18 their action it was agreed they would send two buses from Kljuc to take

19 the prisoners back to Kljuc, which was done."

20 The same -- the same question: Does it reflect the reality as you

21 remember?

22 A. Yes, quite so.

23 Q. And in connection with this document, I would like to clarify two

24 points. It's obvious that the police, apart from military, was involved

25 in the operation. And you mentioned that you saw the police in front --

Page 9036

1 in front of the school. Would you be so kind and describe once again for

2 us, what did this -- was it military police or normal police? First

3 question.

4 A. I said already that I saw the commander of the ordinary police in

5 Sanica, Tomic Milan; then Mihic, his deputy; and also Lazic, who used to

6 work in Sanica. And the mentioned police, military police from Kljuc was

7 wearing camouflage uniforms and they had white belts. So this was the

8 military police, which was in front. And I also saw the commander of the

9 Sanica police station.

10 Q. You said that they had white belts. Did you notice something else

11 about these military policemen? Did they wear something else which would

12 strike your attention?

13 A. I repeated that they all wore camouflage uniforms, that most of

14 them wore red berets, that they were slightly better armed than others,

15 that all of them had truncheons, and some of them - and this I found

16 strange - I saw for the first time they wore black gloves with the fingers

17 cut off.

18 Q. And the second question: This document says "take the prisoners

19 back to Kljuc," and the document -- and the same document is mentioning --

20 is talking about military prisoners. Was there any resistance in Biljani

21 to your knowledge, military resistance of non-Serb population?

22 A. I personally can confirm that in Biljani, from the beginning of

23 May until the 10th of July, among Muslims not a single bullet was fired,

24 that weapons were not found on any one of them. And I can claim with

25 responsibility that not one of them ever uttered a nasty word to the

Page 9037

1 Serbs, to the soldiers, or to anyone at all.

2 Q. Thank you, Mr. Cajic.

3 MS. RICHTEROVA: Your Honours, I do not have further questions.

4 JUDGE AGIUS: [Microphone not activated] Who's going to go first?

5 Mr. Ackerman.

6 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, we haven't discussed it but --

7 JUDGE AGIUS: Yeah, I thought so.


9 JUDGE AGIUS: I could read it in your eyes.

10 MR. ACKERMAN: We thought we would not be at this point today. So

11 whatever Your Honour wishes, I'm prepared to do, I guess.

12 JUDGE AGIUS: Well, if we could utilise the next 15 minutes.

13 First of all, let's deal with it like this: Mr. Ackerman, do you

14 intend to cross-examine the witness?

15 MR. ACKERMAN: I believe I have no questions of the witness, Your

16 Honour. I -- I might learn in the next few minutes that I do, but right

17 now I would say that I don't. I haven't had a chance to speak with my

18 client since we've heard this later testimony. Right now I have no

19 questions.

20 JUDGE AGIUS: And one moment.

21 MR. ZECEVIC: We are intending to --

22 JUDGE AGIUS: One moment, because your colleague is consulting

23 with your client. Mr. Zecevic.

24 MR. ZECEVIC: Your Honours, I would like to have some time to

25 consult with my client.

Page 9038

1 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, exactly. This is what I was going -- because I

2 would rather that these consultations do not take place in the courtroom

3 itself.

4 MR. ZECEVIC: Of course, Your Honour.

5 JUDGE AGIUS: So I think -- I think we will adjourn now and resume

6 tomorrow morning at -- tomorrow afternoon at 2.15.

7 MS. RICHTEROVA: Your Honour, may I say only one thing. Because

8 again I must apologise, my fault, but I didn't inform the witnesses that

9 I am using with the witness tomorrow one document, and it is the same as I

10 used today, which is P1071, this exhumation report from Laniste 1.

11 Nothing else. And I am also using one photograph, which is also relating

12 to this exhumation.

13 JUDGE AGIUS: Mr. Zecevic, do you need to consult with your client

14 now so that -- I'm asking you this question so that arrangements for

15 transportation of your --

16 MR. ZECEVIC: Your Honours, it is entirely -- it is entirely -- if

17 we can do it now, it would be much better.

18 JUDGE AGIUS: This is -- I'm asking you so that the arrangements

19 for the transportation is --

20 MR. ZECEVIC: Thank you very much. We need 20 minutes, not more

21 than that.

22 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]

23 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you. I thank you all. And we will resume

24 tomorrow afternoon at 2.15.

25 No, no, I think he goes out first. Usher, please escort the

Page 9039

1 witness out of the courtroom.

2 Thank you, and good evening.

3 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 6.20 p.m.,

4 to be reconvened on Tuesday, the 27th day

5 of August, 2002, at 2.15 p.m.