1 Monday, 26 August 2002
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 --- Upon commencing at 2.16 p.m.
5 JUDGE AGIUS: Can you call the case, please, Madam Registrar.
6 THE REGISTRAR: Yes, Your Honour. This is the case number,
7 IT-99-36-T, the Prosecutor versus Radoslav Brdjanin and Momir Talic.
8 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, Mr. Brdjanin, good afternoon to you.
9 THE ACCUSED BRDJANIN: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your
11 JUDGE AGIUS: Can you hear me in a language that you can
13 THE ACCUSED BRDJANIN: [Interpretation] I can hear you and
14 understand you.
15 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you. You may sit down.
16 General Talic, good afternoon to you. Can you hear me in a
17 language that you can understand?
18 THE ACCUSED TALIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honours.
19 I can hear you in a language I understand.
20 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you. You may sit down.
21 Appearances for the Prosecution.
22 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, here we go again. Joanna Korner,
23 together with Anna Richterova, assisted by case manager who is standing in
24 for Ms. Gustin, Mr. Hasan Younis. And good afternoon to you Your
1 JUDGE AGIUS: Good afternoon to you.
2 Appearances for Radoslav Brdjanin.
3 MR. ACKERMAN: Good afternoon, Your Honours. I'm John Ackerman.
4 I'm here with Milan Trbojevic, my co-counsel, and Marela Jevtovic. Nice
5 to be back.
6 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, and good afternoon to you.
7 Appearances for General Talic.
8 MR. ZECEVIC: Good afternoon, Your Honours. Slobodan Zecevic and
9 Ms. Natasha Fauveau assisted by our case manager, Ms. Tatjana Cmeric for
10 General Talic. Thank you.
11 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you. And good afternoon to you too.
12 Welcome back. I hope you have had a good and relaxing break.
13 MS. KORNER: Apart from the weather, Your Honour.
14 JUDGE AGIUS: Well, I -- I can't complain on my part.
15 MS. KORNER: We do all think we should have gone to Malta for the
17 JUDGE AGIUS: It was splendid this time. And not too hot. But
18 anyway after a month you get a little bit sick and tired of it because it
19 tends to be too hot. But coming back, I came for lightning and thunder
20 and lightning on Tuesday morning. It was -- anyway, welcome back.
21 And before I ask you whether you have any preliminaries, I just
22 have some very brief information to give you, and that is more or less I
23 wanted to inform you that all the motions -- all the pending motions - and
24 there aren't many but there are a few - are being dealt with. There is in
25 particular the one relating to 92 bis protective measures, the ones
1 relating to these two respectively are already drafted, in drafted form.
2 We will be meeting throughout this week to discuss them. And then we
3 should be in a position to hand down the decisions in the course of this
4 week, not necessarily at the end of the week, perhaps even -- even before,
5 so that -- I wanted you to know there are some other matters that will be
6 dealt with but not necessarily this week, one of which is the contempt of
7 court issue. And in that respect, I would like to have an indication from
8 all interested parties as to whether we can consider the written phase now
9 closed and proceed with our decision. I would like to have a feedback on
10 this matter. Perhaps I can ask Mr. Ackerman to refer this to his
11 colleague. I would imagine that the written phase, written pleadings
12 phase is concluded as well. I mean --
13 MS. KORNER: Well, Your Honour, I have to say I haven't yet -- I
14 only -- like Your Honour, I came back in the midst of this downpour on
15 Saturday and I haven't had an opportunity to go through all the various
16 documents. But I noticed that Mr. Shellow had sent in what purported to
17 be a response to our simple indication of what the legal researchers had
18 shown, which in fact is a legal -- it's an argument, and it's an argument,
19 as I say, when Mr. Shellow appeared that really should only have been
20 raised in the event that there was a full hearing of contempt. I mean,
21 this is one of the problems. So I'm not sure how Your Honour is going to
22 treat that.
23 JUDGE AGIUS: I haven't gone through that document at yet --
24 MS. KORNER: No.
25 JUDGE AGIUS: -- to be sincere with you. The reason is that what
1 had already come in before or until the time of my departure, end of July,
2 I took with me to Malta to read. What was introduced after that, after
3 then, I gave instructions to keep here, also because I don't -- in summer
4 I don't reside in my usual residence, and I didn't want to have --
5 MS. KORNER: I'm sorry, Your Honour. I'm having difficulty to
6 hear what Your Honour said, because I can hear some sort of commentary
7 going on.
8 Oh, of course it's for the Milosevic trial. That's what's
10 JUDGE AGIUS: I see.
11 MS. KORNER: Thank you very much, Mr. Ackerman.
12 JUDGE AGIUS: Anyway, that part of the documents I haven't gone
13 through as yet. There are two sets, I think, of documents that I've still
14 got to read. I had them filed this morning, but I will be going through
15 them in the course of this week. I don't -- I haven't had time to consult
16 my two colleagues as to whether they have read these documents. I don't
17 know what the position is, but we will -- I think from what I could see, I
18 think I should consider -- we should consider the written pleadings phase
19 to have come to an end, to have been concluded.
20 MS. KORNER: Well, that's -- Your Honour, that's the only reason
21 I'm raising it, because what Mr. Shellow has done in my opinion is advance
22 an argument on the facts and on various aspects which if, as I said to
23 Your Honour at the time, this is to -- there is a sort of referral for
24 some sort of a hearing, that I would have answered, because there are
25 merits --
1 JUDGE AGIUS: Yeah, but I think, Ms. Korner, we had made ourselves
2 clear as to where the line of demarcation pertinent to this preliminary
3 hearing, sort of, where the boundaries were. And we do not intend to go
4 beyond those boundaries in any case.
5 MS. KORNER: Well, then I think the best thing would be if Your
6 Honour were to be -- Your Honours, I'm sorry, were to be given an
7 opportunity to look at what Mr. Shellow has.
8 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes.
9 MS. KORNER: And then if you would be kind enough to let us know
10 how you would treat that particular submission, which does not deal with
11 what were purely submissions of the law that we put before Your Honour
12 without, as we said in our motion, going into anything to do with the
13 merits or the facts.
14 JUDGE AGIUS: All right. More or less, that's it. If -- I'm just
15 asking. Initially way back in January of this year, you will recall that
16 there was an issue related to what would happen to a statement made to the
17 Prosecution by a witness who is now deceased. And we had agreed to have
18 that matter postponed -- the discussion on that matter postponed. What --
19 what is the position now?
20 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, the position is that, I think, both
21 ourselves and Madam Fauveau, whom it affects, thought it would be
22 appropriate to deal with it after Colonel Selak has testified.
23 JUDGE AGIUS: Still the same --
24 MS. KORNER: It's still the say. Which would be in relation to
25 the Prijedor chapter.
1 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. So any preliminaries? Mr. Ackerman.
2 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, I just wondered if I would have the
3 Court's permission to scout around the room and find a set of earphones,
4 because we need an extra set over here.
5 JUDGE AGIUS: There are two here.
6 MS. KORNER: There's one here.
7 MR. ACKERMAN: There's plenty of earphones apparently. Thank
9 JUDGE AGIUS: Is the General Talic team okay with earphones?
10 You're okay.
11 MR. ZECEVIC: Yes, we are fine. We don't have any preliminaries.
12 JUDGE AGIUS: All right. If you require anything, please let me
14 Yes, Ms. Korner.
15 MS. KORNER: Then Your Honour, the only matter is this: We begin
16 today the evidence relating to the municipality of Kljuc.
17 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes.
18 MS. KORNER: As Your Honours were aware, the witness who was
19 supposed to come was taken into hospital other the break, and so we have
20 had to reorganise. The first witness will be called by Ms. Richterova.
21 But Your Honour, just one matter in relation to the documents.
22 Madam Fauveau, very kindly, as is her wont, sent a letter last week
23 indicating which particular documents in the binders were contested for
24 the, if I can put it that way, the usual reasons. Your Honour, we've not
25 had any document on behalf of Mr. Brdjanin setting out which documents are
1 contested. I'd be grateful if -- either if Mr. Ackerman simply goes along
2 with what Ms. Fauveau says. That's fine. But if there are any other
3 specific documents that are contested, I'd be grateful if we could be
4 given a list. And I'd prefer to have a list of the documents that are
5 contested and not those that are not contested for the authenticity; the
6 reason being that obviously those are the ones that we will try and deal
7 with perhaps more than others with the witnesses.
8 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, I -- I join Madam Fauveau's list and
9 simply maintain the objection that I have made from the beginning
10 regarding the admission of documents without proper foundation.
11 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. So that's been settled.
12 I think we can proceed with calling the witness. This witness
13 does not enjoy any protective measures, as far as I remember.
14 MS. RICHTEROVA: No, there are no protective measures.
15 JUDGE AGIUS: Exactly.
16 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, with regard to this witness, it's my
17 assumption that there are no exhibits to be offered with regard to this
18 witness, since we've received no list of exhibits.
19 JUDGE AGIUS: No. I --
20 MS. RICHTEROVA: I was asked to distribute a list of -- we
21 disclosed it or we handed over it on Friday, and it was in the envelope
22 together with other disclosures. So I apologise -- or if Mr. Ackerman
23 hasn't opened the envelope yet.
24 JUDGE AGIUS: Mr. Ackerman, just for maybe looking at the page --
25 at the sheet of paper could mean anything. We were given this document
1 with four documents, one of which arrived before the others, the documents
2 being P986, P987, P797, and P1071.
3 MR. ACKERMAN: 986, 987.
4 JUDGE AGIUS: 797 and 1071.
5 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, when I arrived here this morning,
6 there was a stack of paper -- there were two huge boxes. I suppose the
7 entire stack would be this high. And unfortunately in the 15 minutes that
8 I had, I didn't find the one piece of paper that Ms. Richterova says I
9 should have found. They have my e-mail address. They have my fax
10 number. There's no reason they couldn't have given me this in a way to
11 make it certain that I would -- and I think it's -- it's just not fair to
12 throw something in my locker on the theory that I might find and it might
13 not when they have the better way to get information to me and make sure
14 that I have it. And I don't know what these exhibits are. I don't know
15 if they're important. I don't know if I would have something that I would
16 want to do if I'd had a chance to review them. And it's just not -- it's
17 just not a proper way to proceed as far as I'm concerned. Obviously it
18 was given to Your Honours in advance and you've had a chance to have --
19 JUDGE AGIUS: How long do you anticipate this witness to last, to
20 be here.
21 MS. RICHTEROVA: Today. Only today.
22 MS. FAUVEAU-IVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President.
23 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, Madam Fauveau.
24 MS. FAUVEAU-IVANOVIC: [Interpretation] I opened these two boxes
25 that we received, and I'm almost sure that the list is not inside. Of
1 course I cannot assert that because as Mr. Ackerman has said, it is a
2 large quantity of documents and it is quite possible that this piece of
3 paper is inside. I realised that these documents were there on Saturday
4 evening, and I did not see this list among them.
5 MS. RICHTEROVA: This list was in a separate envelope, because
6 we -- we knew that there were two big boxes and a separate envelope with
7 disclosure of documents -- two documents which were disclosed, plus new
8 order of witnesses, plus this list.
9 MS. FAUVEAU-IVANOVIC: [Interpretation] If it is this envelope,
10 this document was not inside that envelope because I studied the contents
11 of that envelope very closely.
12 JUDGE AGIUS: Basically -- I mean, if I -- if I can try to not
13 mediate but simplify things. One of these documents, which is 1071, is in
14 the Serbo-Croat language and it is, from what I can understand, is either
15 levee des corps, or postmortem examination results, and it's a thick
16 document all relating to a number of bodies that were obviously found
17 somewhere. That's one.
18 The other one is an on-site investigation record. And this is the
19 discovery of a mass grave in an underground cave. And this is 10 -- this
20 is -- part of the same document, 1071.
21 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, would -- I actually predicted -- I knew
22 something like this would go wrong. Would it be simpler if there aren't
23 very many documents -- if Your Honours were to rise for 15 minutes while
24 the Defence have a look at those documents and just tell us whether
25 there's any real objection to us starting.
1 JUDGE AGIUS: Would that be okay with you Mr. Ackerman and
2 Mr. Zecevic?
3 MR. ACKERMAN: Yes, I think that would be all right, Your
4 Honours. I'm not even sure that we'll be able to locate those documents.
5 MS. KORNER: We can if necessary provide immediate copies.
6 MR. ACKERMAN: All right.
7 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you.
8 MR. ACKERMAN: That will be fine.
9 JUDGE AGIUS: So we'll have a short break of 15 minutes and take
10 it up from there afterwards.
11 --- Break taken at 2.34 p.m.
12 --- On resuming at 3.03 p.m.
13 JUDGE AGIUS: Mr. Ackerman, are you happy now?
14 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, we have received copies of the
15 exhibits. I've had a chance to look at them. They're largely irrelevant
16 to the Brdjanin case, near as I can tell.
17 The other issue that has come up, though, Your Honour, is this:
18 It is, I think, since the beginning of this case, it has been the rule
19 that the Prosecutor is to notify us on Thursday of the week before who the
20 witnesses will be for the next week. And I received both a fax and an
21 e-mail in Texas last week telling me the witnesses for this week would be
22 7.69 and 7.133. I was just informed a few moments ago that they also will
23 have 7.65 and 7.105. I just learned that during this short break. And
24 really if there's going to be such a rule, then it should be enforced;
25 otherwise, it's a rule without any basis whatsoever.
1 So for the record, I object to the calling of any witnesses beyond
2 those that I receive notice of by Thursday of last week, that being 7.69
3 and 7.133. I think that if we're going to have such a rule, Your Honours
4 should enforce it or just say there's no rule and they can just bring
5 whoever they want whenever they want.
6 JUDGE AGIUS: Ms. Korner.
7 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, it may -- there are two things. The
8 main purpose was to inform the Defence as soon as possible that the
9 witness they thought was going to come was in fact not because he was
10 ill. These two witnesses would replace that witness, who would have taken
11 some time.
12 Your Honours, it may well be that we have to spell out in chapter
13 and verse that we're going to follow the order of witnesses. But with the
14 greatest of respect to Mr. Ackerman, it cannot have occurred to
15 Mr. Ackerman that we can spend five working days on two witnesses dealing
16 with one crime base massacre. Now, if it did, I'm sorry. Your Honour, if
17 it's necessary to say in terms every time these are the witnesses who will
18 be called time permitting, then we'll do it. The fact is the next two
19 witnesses -- one -- the first one will be a little bit longer because he's
20 going to set the scene for Kljuc. The second one effectively deals with
21 the same incident from a slightly different perspective. The third is the
22 man who was going to testify before the break until we realised that he
23 couldn't possibly finish before the break so -- and we said he was going
24 to be called afterwards. And then after that we move on to the fourth
25 witness, who is a political figure and is going to give the political
2 Now, Your Honour, I'm sorry that Mr. Ackerman didn't appreciate
3 that there was going to be more than those two witnesses. Your Honours
4 heard the objection. Unless Your Honour rules that we can't, we propose
5 to call these witnesses, both of whom are arriving tonight. Otherwise, if
6 not, they'll have to go back to Bosnia.
7 JUDGE AGIUS: Mr. Ackerman.
8 MR. ACKERMAN: Well, I think -- the first thing: History says
9 that one must not assume that they're going to follow their list of
10 witnesses and call them in that order. They haven't done that yet. And
11 if one relies on that list, one does so as their own peril, because it
12 changes constantly. And if you look at what the -- the rule at the
13 beginning of this case was, that you notify us by Thursday of who your
14 witnesses will be the next week. They notified us of those two witnesses,
15 7.69 and 7.133. And I just want -- I want it to be noted that I object to
16 any other witnesses being called that weren't notified in accordance with
17 that rule. I'm sure that when we start the Defence case the Prosecutor
18 will want the same kind of -- kind of rule and want to be notified well in
19 advance of who the Defence witnesses are going to be. It just puts us in
20 a very difficult position to find out on the Monday morning who the
21 witnesses will be for the rest of the week.
22 JUDGE AGIUS: Anyway, the witnesses --
23 [Trial Chamber confers]
24 JUDGE AGIUS: So our decision in regard to this matter is very
25 simple and straight forward one.
1 Number one is that the agreement that was reached in the beginning
2 of this trial and the very early stages of this trial ought to be
3 observed. And please henceforth -- and this would apply when it's your
4 turn then as well -- do make sure, ensure that the Defence is notified in
5 time, in good time.
6 For this time what we are going to do is, things being what they
7 are, we will go ahead with hearing these two witnesses, but we reserve the
8 position should it become apparent to us that we should stop because of
9 one reason or another, then we will stop. In other words, the witnesses
10 will come, but we reserve the position. And we will decide accordingly as
11 we go along. All right, Mr. Ackerman?
12 So Witness 7.69, usher.
13 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]
14 [The witness entered court]
15 JUDGE AGIUS: Good afternoon to you, sir.
16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good afternoon.
17 JUDGE AGIUS: You are about to start giving evidence in this
18 case. But before you do so, the gentleman who is standing next to you
19 will hand you the text of a solemn declaration to tell us the truth in the
20 course of your testimony. And I kindly invite you to make that solemn
21 declaration now by reading that text. Thank you.
22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will speak
23 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
24 WITNESS: HUSEIN CAJIC
25 [Witness answered through interpreter]
1 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you. And you may sit down.
2 Mr. Cajic, I'll try to explain to you where you are and what will
3 happen. You are in one of the courtrooms of this Tribunal, and you are
4 giving evidence in a case that has been instituted against two persons,
5 one of whom is Radoslav Brdjanin. The other one is General Momir Talic.
6 You are a witness that has been brought forward by the Prosecution.
7 I am the Presiding Judge. My name is Agius. And I am flanked by
8 two other Judges. On my right is Judge Janu from the Czech Republic and
9 on my left is Judge Taya from Japan. The three persons you're seeing in
10 front of you are the Registry. And what you should be interested about is
11 for the time being, the three persons sitting in the front row to your
12 right, those are the members of the Prosecution. And you will be first
13 questioned -- be questioned by Madam Richterova from the team of the
15 In the front row on your left, you see five persons. The first
16 three represent -- the three who are nearer to you represent -- nearest
17 to you represent the Defence team for General -- for Radoslav Brdjanin,
18 and the last two represent the Defence team for General Talic.
19 The system we adopt here is that you are asked a set of questions,
20 one question after the other, by the Prosecution first. And you are
21 supposed to or expected to answer those questions to the best of your
22 ability, telling us always the truth. My advice to you here is not to go
23 beyond what will be asked of you, not to get lost in details that are not
24 asked of you. Just answer the question, the whole question, and nothing
25 but the question.
1 When the Prosecution finishes with its series of questions, then
2 the Defence team -- both Defence teams have a right to put questions to
3 you. We call that a cross-examination. And it will be done one Defence
4 team after another.
5 After that, there may be a re-examination on the part of the
6 Prosecution. Not necessarily so. And there may be some questions from
7 the Bench, from us three Judges here. But that stands to be seen, and it
8 depends very much on what your testimony will cover.
9 Having said that, I now call upon Madam Richterova to start the
10 examination-in-chief of her witness. Thank you.
11 MS. RICHTEROVA: Thank you.
12 Examined by Ms. Richterova:
13 Q. Good morning -- good afternoon. Would you be so kind and state
14 your --
15 A. Good afternoon.
16 Q. Can you state your full name for the record.
17 A. My name is Husein Cajic.
18 Q. You were born on 19 July 1961 in Biljani; is that correct?
19 A. That's right.
20 Q. You are of Bosniak ethnic origin; is that correct?
21 A. Yes. That's right.
22 Q. And you are of Islamic faith.
23 A. That's right.
24 Q. As you stated, you were born in Biljani. In which part of Biljani
25 were you born and lived?
1 A. In Biljani, in the hamlet of Brkici.
2 MS. RICHTEROVA: I would like to show the witness the map called
3 Biljani overview and enter it as an Exhibit 1070 and if we can place it on
4 the ELMO.
5 A. It's here, but the picture isn't very clear. That's fine.
6 Q. You can -- you can have a look directly on the map which is on the
7 ELMO. You don't need to have a look on the map which is on the screen.
8 Maybe it will be easier for you.
9 A. That's right. Thank you.
10 Q. Is it correct to say that Biljani is comprised of several hamlets?
11 A. That's correct.
12 Q. Can you show us on this map the hamlet in which you lived.
13 A. It's the hamlet of Brkici.
14 Q. What would you say about the ethnic composition of Biljani as such
15 and the hamlets which were part of Biljani?
16 A. Well, for the whole area of Biljani, I think about 75 to 80 per
17 cent of the population was Muslim and about 20 to 25 per cent of the
18 population were of Serbian ethnicity.
19 Q. Can you state which hamlets were purely Muslims and which were
20 purely Serbs, or which area were purely Serbs?
21 A. The Brkici hamlet, Dzaferagici, and Botonici, and Jabukovac, these
22 are of Muslim ethnicity. And then Polje, only one Serb lived there. In
23 the centre of Biljani, which isn't indicated here, there were only three
24 Serbs living there. And the village of Domazeti there were five or six
25 Serbs who live there and the remainder of the population was of Muslim
1 ethnicity. In Gologlavo, there were only Serbs. In Lancari, there were
2 only Serbs too. That's Lancari and here you can't see Samardzije, Lakici,
3 Sikmani, and these were purely Serbian villages. These villages haven't
4 been indicated on the map.
5 Q. Were there any mosques or other religious buildings in the area of
7 A. In the area of Biljani, there was one religious building. There
8 was one mosque. And there were two auxiliary builds which served for
9 the same purpose. The mosque was in the hamlet of Dzaferagici.
10 Q. And these other two religious buildings?
11 A. One religious building was in Jabukovac and the other in Poponici
12 [phoen]. These were prominent buildings.
13 Q. Do you remember in which conditions were these religious buildings
14 by the end -- by the middle of 1992?
15 A. In the middle of 1992, the mosque was in excellent condition. It
16 had been renovated a few years ago whereas in Mesani and Jabukovac, and
17 Botonici they were a little dilapidated, but they were -- the condition
18 was correct. They were just a little bit used. The buildings were just a
19 little bit older.
20 Q. And were they still used?
21 A. Yes. At the time they were still in use.
22 Q. Thank you.
23 MS. RICHTEROVA: We do not need the map any more.
24 Q. Can you very briefly describe the situation, the condition of
25 living in your area, Biljani, and surrounding areas before 1990s and after
1 1990s. Were there any differences in the life? But very briefly.
2 A. I can say precisely up until 1985 that the relationships between
3 all the ethnic groups were fairly good. People lived very well. There
4 were mixed marriages. People would be best men. There were common
5 weddings, et cetera. From 1985 to 1990, that's when things started to
6 change a bit. And in the 1990s, with the beginning of the war in
7 Slovenia, things came to a head and tension rose. There was tension since
8 the JNA army, which was leaving Slovenia, mostly moved over into Bosnia
9 and Herzegovina. One unit moved into the vicinity of our municipality,
10 to be more precise, to the place called Laniste. And that's when matters
11 got more complicated.
12 Q. You mentioned a war in Slovenia. And what about a war in
13 Croatia? Did it affect the life in your area as well?
14 A. The war in Croatia started in 1991. At the time the situation
15 changed completely. It became completely inverted. And given that the
16 former JNA army attempted to take parts of Croatia and before parts of
17 Slovenia and didn't succeed in doing that, they started mobilising other
18 forces, other troops. And among those ranks, there were Muslims. And at
19 that time, given the relationship between the Croats and the Muslims and
20 their co-existence, the Muslims didn't respond to the mobilisation and
21 they were put on the side, whereas the Serbs accepted this. They accepted
22 the mobilisation and went to the battlefield in Croatia.
23 Q. When they accepted and went to Croatia, were mobilised, do you
24 know whether they still received salaries in their respective jobs, to
25 your knowledge?
1 A. I didn't work in local factories. Since before that I worked in
2 Slovenia and then I worked privately. I had a brother and a sister-in-law
3 and some relatives who worked in the factory. In fact, when the
4 mobilisation was proclaimed, they remained to work there, especially
5 the men, whereas all the local population who worked in the factory and
6 went to the battlefield in Croatia, they received their salaries, but
7 they also had a salary which they received from the JNA.
8 Q. Do you know what were the consequences of refusing to be mobilised
9 for the non-Serb population, or even for Serb population, refused to go to
10 the battlefield?
11 A. For the Serbian population, no, I can't give you any precise
12 information. I know about the Muslims who didn't respond to the
13 mobilisation. I know that their movements were restricted. In fact, they
14 were ordered not to leave their villages without informing the military
15 department of this.
16 Q. So it was irrelevant to people who refused to go to battlefield.
17 When you said they were restricted of movement, was there later
18 restriction of movement for other non-Serb population? And I am talking
19 about the beginning of 1992.
20 A. At the beginning of 1992, in the first three months of 1992, in
21 fact, there was no restriction of movement. It was possible to move
22 around Bosnia and Herzegovina freely, but not beyond because there were
23 some workers who had working permits in Croatia and Slovenia and they
24 would go there by auxiliary routes. This was in Herzegovina and through
25 Brcko, and these were the routes they would take to go to work.
1 Q. Now I am referring again to your area. You said at the beginning
2 there were no restrictions on movement, so it -- does it mean that there
3 was restriction on movement at some later point?
4 A. Not really real restriction of movement, since when the referendum
5 was held in March, when Bosnia and Herzegovina was recognised, then the
6 situation changed and certain police checkpoints were erected in Sanica
7 and Kljuc. And among the reserve military forces, there were observation
8 posts which they put up in Gologlavo, in the area of Gologlavo, and in the
9 area of Lunjevo and some other places that I was not able to observe. But
10 I know this from hearsay. I saw these two places personally, since they
11 can be seen from my house. But I didn't see the other places. But there
12 were four or five other observation posts of this kind. And we, the
13 inhabitants of Biljani, lived in the centre and in the valley mainly, and
14 we were observed from above. They would try to observe us and see where
15 we were going, what we were doing, et cetera.
16 Q. When you mentioned these checkpoints, did you personally went
17 through any of these checkpoints?
18 A. Yes, a couple of times in Sanica.
19 Q. You said that these checkpoints were established shortly after the
20 referendum; is that correct?
21 A. That's correct.
22 Q. So shortly after the referendum, there were checkpoints. Who
23 manned these checkpoints after the referendum?
24 A. At the time on the main roads, at the checkpoints of the main
25 roads, people from the police station in Sanica were there and reserve
1 forces of the police manned the checkpoints. There were Muslims among
3 Q. So is it correct to state that there were mixed patrols?
4 A. Yes, that's correct.
5 Q. Was there any point when the composition of these patrols would
7 A. Yes. The composition changed when the Serbian police -- or in
8 fact when the police station was taken over in Sanica, in Kljuc. It was
9 taken over by the Serbian army, or in fact at the time it was the Yugoslav
10 Army. That's when they took over the checkpoint. There was movement on
11 the part of the army, on the part of the troops. And on that day, I think
12 it was between the 20th and 22nd of May, a checkpoint in Sanica was taken
13 over, at which my relative Mujo Cajic worked. He was on duty at the
14 checkpoint on that day. And when the -- when Tomic Milan, the police
15 commander came, together with soldiers and other policemen who took that
16 checkpoint over, they were ordered -- they were then ordered to go to the
17 police station in Sanica.
18 Q. And do you know what happened at that police station in Sanica?
19 A. In the police station in Sanica, they were offered to sign a
20 document according to which they were to join the Serbian civilian police.
21 First of all, they spoke to the commander about this. And finally, they
22 refused to do this. Cajic Mujo, and the other members of the reserve
23 police force and of the regular police force refused to do this, those who
24 were of Muslim nationality.
25 Q. How did you learn about what you just said? Did someone -- did
1 someone tell you about this?
2 A. From that day onwards, we were no longer able to enter Sanica, so
3 I didn't see that personally. But Mujo Cajic is only 30 or 40 metres
4 away from my house. His house is 30 or 40 metres away from my house. And
5 I've already said that he was my uncle. And a neighbour of mine, a friend
6 of mine, also worked in the police, Avdic Sead, he had only done his
7 military service.
8 Q. So you learned it from your uncle, is it correct to state?
9 A. Yes, from a cousin of mine.
10 Q. I will go a little bit before this -- this time. And I would like
11 to ask you about arming of people in Biljani and surrounding area. To
12 your knowledge, did civilians receive or buy some weapons? And I'm
13 talking about all population. I mean Serbs and non-Serbs. To your
14 knowledge. Do you know whether the civilians were armed?
15 A. I can personally claim, given that in 1991, while the war was
16 still raging in Croatia, I worked in a cafe in Bravsko. MIG 91 was the
17 name. And on one occasion, some young men came, and they asked me to make
18 some boards, 1 metre by 1 metre, since I had the material. When I had
19 made these boards, one of them came and then later on several of them came
20 with automatic rifles and they themselves told me, "Oh, we have now
21 received this and in a few days we have to go to the battlefield in
22 Croatia. Whoever wants to volunteer can get this and we're going to train
23 now." And they even offered me to do this. I refused to do this. This
24 was in 1991.
25 In 1992, given that in 1992 the battlefield in Kupres was an issue
1 and there were quite a lot of Serbs from our area, from the area of
2 Biljani and Sanica, and they went in a regular manner to the battlefield
3 there, and they had been issued uniforms and weapons, so they already had
4 this. And on several occasions we could see a helicopter which landed in
5 Gologlavo. Naturally it had JNA marks on it. And individual Serbs, not
6 realising what they were saying, said, "We've received -- we've had our
7 things and now we'll see about you."
8 And then one other thing: The Muslims, we had certain hunting
9 weapons which had been -- which were legally possessed. If one was a
10 hunter, this was normal, and anyone else who legally owned a pistol,
11 well, it was normal to possess such weapons.
12 Q. I will stop you now for a second. When I am reading the
13 transcript. You said that an individual Serbs not realising what they
14 were saying and said, "We have received -- we have had our things and now
15 we will see about you." Can you be more specific. Did they -- what they
16 were referring to, because this sentence doesn't make too much sense.
17 A. Perhaps in previous statements I didn't mention this. Quite a lot
18 can't be said, you know. On each occasion -- well, I personally had a
19 colleague with whom I would see. We were friends. We would visit each
20 other. But they didn't tell me this personally. They told this to
21 Dervisevic Feriz, a relative of mine. He's 70 years old now. And there
22 were -- there was information according to which they went from house to
23 house and delivered weapons, distributed weapons to their -- to the local
25 Q. So you -- is it correct to state that you received from somebody
1 else an information that --
2 A. Information, that's correct.
3 Q. -- that Serb civilians were receiving weapons.
4 A. That's correct.
5 Q. But you didn't see it by yourself.
6 A. No, I didn't. But I saw this in Gologlavo -- in Bravsko, where I
7 worked in the cafe.
8 Q. So you -- what did you see in that cafe?
9 A. In that cafe, as I said, a young man came to see me. He was about
10 20 years old. And he asked me to make this target. And then ten young
11 men came. They were wearing civilian clothes, and they had automatic
12 rifles with them. And they personally told me, "We've been issued with
13 this. In a few days time, we're going to the battlefield in Croatia. And
14 now we're going to try these weapons out. Are you coming with us?" I
15 said no. Because there were -- I had work to do. And shortly afterwards,
16 ten or 15 minutes later they left. And throughout the day you could hear
17 them testing the weapons, trying out the weapons.
18 Q. Apart from this occasion, did you see any other civilians carrying
20 A. Only after the 30th of May, for example. In June and July, that
22 Q. Where was it?
23 A. In Biljani. In my village, in my hamlet.
24 Q. Now I will return to what you have already started talking about.
25 I would like to know about arming of Muslims. Do you know whether also
1 non-Serb people had weapons and how they received these weapons?
2 A. That was true. There were automatic weapons, about ten pieces, in
3 Biljani too. And there were some handmade weapons, so-called Kugari
4 [phoen]. Also in Biljani, I can't give you a precise figure, but I can
5 claim with certainty that I -- since I was some sort of a technician, they
6 came to me personally, Serbs, whom I did not know, and they offered me
7 weapons to buy. But about ten of our people bought them, since the police
8 had lists of people. When they would take away weapons, they would then
9 sell weapons and say, "I sold weapons to this person or that person, the
10 person under this number, and that is where he can be found."
11 Q. When you are referring to "our people," you are referring to
13 A. The Serbs came and would sell this, and yes, Muslims would buy
14 them. About -- tens of Muslims, dozens of Muslims. They would get them
15 from the Croatian battlefield mostly and would sell them.
16 Q. I want to ask you one question in relation to takeover of Sanica
17 police station, as you already discussed, and it was: Do you know whether
18 the uniforms or insignia on police uniforms changed after the takeover?
19 A. As I said, I personally did not know -- witness this. But from my
20 relative Mujo Cajic, I heard about this. When he went to the police
21 station, they had taken off the flag of Bosnia and Herzegovina, or rather
22 of Yugoslavia, and they put out the flag of the Serbian Republic with
23 4-S's on it and with the white-headed eagle. And members of the other
24 police force and Mujo confirmed this. Immediately changed the insignia
25 on their shoulders and they got new insignia. For some of them this
1 was -- this represented four S's. And in most cases it was the symbol of
2 the eagle.
3 Q. Do you know how this eagle looked like?
4 A. White-headed eagle, something like what Germany has on its coat of
5 arms, something like that. Afterwards when the army passed through
6 Biljani, I had occasion to see that emblem again.
7 Q. So you saw this emblem of eagle on insignia for the army who came
8 to Biljani?
9 A. Yes, correct. The first time was towards the end of May.
10 Q. [Previous translation continues] ... talk about that later. I was
11 only confirming whether you saw this.
12 A. Yes, yes, correct. The four S's, yes.
13 Q. We also discussed this restriction of movement when you mentioned
14 that there were these checkpoints. To your knowledge, was there any
15 curfew imposed in your area?
16 A. In those days, there was no curfew. I don't know whether you'll
17 understand me, but I'd like to say that we, especially men, didn't go to
18 Sanica because we were not allowed to go there during the daytime, not to
19 mention at night.
20 Q. And so when you said you were not allowed -- so how do you know
21 that you were not allowed to go there?
22 A. With the takeover of the police station, on that day quite a
23 number of workers, or rather, all the employees of Muslim ethnicity,
24 including my brother, both men and women, were turned back from the
25 checkpoint at Sanica and told to go home.
1 Q. And did he -- did they get any explanation for this procedure?
2 A. No. They were just told that they were no longer needed. Just
3 they said, "Go home until further notice."
4 Q. And to your knowledge, if someone -- if someone wanted to leave
5 Biljani and go somewhere else, does that person could go freely or does he
6 or she needed permission?
7 A. I'm unable to say, because we didn't want to go anywhere nor did
8 we have anywhere to go, because you couldn't go to Sanica and especially
9 not to Kljuc and especially us men. No one dared go anywhere. That's the
10 simple truth.
11 Q. I will ask -- I will rephrase it. But you said you couldn't go to
12 Sanica. Was it because of the checkpoints, or did you receive any
13 instruction that you cannot leave your village?
14 A. At the time we had still not been told that we couldn't leave our
15 village, but whenever we passed the checkpoint, many inhabitants of
16 Biljani were mistreated. They were cursed, sworn at. They were still not
17 beaten in those days, but they were harassed, provoked, and one would have
18 to go to the police station to get a document, a piece of paper to be able
19 toll go to Kljuc. That's how it was.
20 Q. And one last question about these checkpoints: Did you go through
21 any of these checkpoints after the Serbs took over the police station in
23 A. No, and I didn't dare go.
24 Q. And do you know who manned these checkpoints at that time, after
25 the -- were there still these mixed patrols or only of one nationality
12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and
13 English transcripts.
2 A. Only one nationality patrols.
3 Q. And because you said that you didn't go through any of these
4 checkpoints, how did you know there were only one nationality patrols?
5 A. I told you that my brother went to work and there was a one
6 national patrol. My sister-in-law went to Sanica on a couple of occasions
7 to get her salary, my brother's wife, and she personally saw workers that
8 she used to work with in the factory who asked for her ID, though he was
9 her neighbour and they worked together, still she needed her ID card to be
10 able to pass through that checkpoint and go only as far as Sanica.
11 Q. And let's make it absolutely clear. What was the nationality of
12 those who manned these checkpoints?
13 A. They were of Serb nationality.
14 Q. Now, I would return again to the weapons. You said that there
15 were some weapons in your village, that Muslim people bought some weapons
16 and you had some weapons from previous days. Do you know whether there
17 were some announcements during 1992 to surrender weapons?
18 A. I'm not quite sure what date it was, between the 25th and the
19 27th, but I know that on one day a van arrived informing people on the
20 loudspeaker that all Muslims owning weapons should hand over their weapons
21 at the railway station in Sanica. Not at the police station, but at the
22 railway station in Sanica, which was no longer being used by the
23 railways. Of course the Muslims did that in 99 per cent of the cases on
24 that day. But two men either didn't hear the announcement that day or for
25 some other reason - I don't know which - but I do know that they came the
1 next day and said, "If those two men --" and they read out the number of
2 the rifle. One was a hunting rifle, legally owned, and the other was an
3 automatic rifle. And "if they are not returned to the railway station,
4 all the other Muslims would be taken into custody." And these young men
5 did so on that day, which means that all the weapons from Biljani were
6 handed in but I don't know exactly whether it was the 25th or the 26th of
7 May that this happened.
8 Q. After you handed over the weapons, what happened? Did anybody
9 come to your village to check whether you really handed over the weapons?
10 A. The next day or two days later, from the direction of Kljuc an
11 armoured vehicle arrived in olive-grey colour, two armoured vehicles, with
12 some 50 to 70 soldiers walking alongside them. I can confirm this
13 personally because we first heard them arriving, these two APCs, from
14 Kljuc to Sanica. In front of them were civilians, inhabitants of the
15 hamlet of Cehici. And when they reached the entrance to Brkici, the
16 crossroads there, these people reached our houses and told us that every
17 household should hang out a white sheet on the balcony or somewhere else
18 as a sign of recognition, as a sign of surrender, and that men between 16
19 and 60 years of age should walk in front of these APCs, that is, they
20 should go to the asphalt road at the crossroads towards Sanica.
21 Q. And what happened with the civilians who came from Cehici?
22 A. When we approached those APCs, when we got closer, I was able to
23 see clearly that behind those APCs and around them, some 20 to 50 metres
24 on each side, I saw soldiers wearing olive-grey uniforms. Some of them
25 had camouflage uniforms. And then one of their commanders -- I don't know
1 his name, so I can't tell you -- said to the inhabitants of Cehici that
2 they could go home. And as we were quite numerous, that half of the
3 inhabitants of Brkici could also go home, whereas the other half of some
4 30 men - and I was among them - we were ordered to walk in front of the
5 APCs towards Sanica, which we did as far as the hamlet of Jabukovac. So
6 we were a human shield, and we were told that. Just before we reached
7 Jabukovac, they said to two or three men: "Go to Jabukovac, gather all
8 men between 18 and 60 and tell them to hang out the white sheets. If all
9 of them don't come out to the bridge at Jabukovac, we will execute these
10 men in front." There were no incidents. No one did anything at all. We
11 reached the bridge safely. At the bridge the people of Jabukovac were in
12 front of us, and we were allowed to return to our homes.
13 Q. When you were still in Brkici and soldiers arrived to the village
14 of Brkici --
15 A. Correct.
16 Q. What did --
17 A. Correct.
18 Q. -- what did they do in your village, these soldiers who arrived
19 from this direction of probably Cehici?
20 A. Those soldiers, according to what my mother said, who stayed at
21 home, they just passed through the village, entered the houses, looked
22 into the stables, and then continued towards Jabukovac. Nothing happened.
23 We returned home and the whole unit went on towards Sanica, and we stayed
24 at home.
25 Q. These soldiers, can you tell us who they were, what did they --
1 what did they wear?
2 A. All the soldiers were armed, normally with automatic weapons. As
3 I said, there were two APCs, one of which I think was a PAT, P-A-T,
4 anti-aircraft gun. They had normal weapons, just like any military
5 unit would have, with grenades and --
6 Q. And what did they --
7 A. -- and weapons clips and so on.
8 Q. What kind of uniform did they wear?
9 A. I just said. They had olive-grey uniforms, and a few had
10 camouflage uniforms. Most of these were made from the canvas used for
11 tents by the former JNA.
12 Q. Were you able to notice any insignias on their uniforms?
13 A. Yes. Many of them had the insignia of four S's, some of them on
14 their caps had these white-headed eagles. And each of them on their
15 epaulettes had a ribbon in a certain colour, probably this was a sign of
16 recognition, but at the time we didn't know what it meant.
17 Q. And after these soldiers left your village and you returned to
18 your homes, did anything else happen in your village?
19 A. In Brkici itself, nothing. But I can say on the basis of stories
20 the next day and the day after that that same evening, from the hamlet of
21 Polje, close to Sanica, they took 15 to 20 men to Sanica, whereas the rest
22 were all told to return home.
23 Q. How did you learn about this?
24 A. I learnt about this from my sister, as my sister lives in Polje,
25 the hamlet of Polje, as they took her neighbour and another 15 or 20
1 young men as well.
2 Q. Did any soldiers come to your village at some other occasion?
3 A. I can say that those same soldiers three days later, again from
4 the direction of Sanica, they arrived going in the direction of Kljuc, and
5 they once again searched the whole village.
6 Q. On that occasion, did they find something?
7 A. On that occasion, they didn't find anything either. Only
8 returning from Sanica and no one was arrested from the Brkici hamlet, from
9 Cehici, Osmanovici, and the centre of Biljani, 20 -- or rather, 50 men
10 were taken into custody and taken towards Kljuc. That day a killing
11 occurred when Cehici -- I've forgotten the first name now -- Hamdo. I was
12 a witness as the soldiers came from the direction of Gologlavo, across the
13 hill, this is the first day, this must have been around the 1st of June.
14 When we heard them come from Sanica, these two APCs, we turned around to
15 face them. However, behind our backs soldiers came and ordered us to
16 rally in the middle of the village at the intersection of roads, which we
17 did, just the men. The women remained at home. I was present. I can't
18 tell you the name, but working in the cafe at Bravsko, I knew a Serb and I
19 exchanged greetings with him, and I was close to the commander of that
20 unit. Also present was radio communications officer. And when we heard
21 some loud shots, I said to the signalsman, "Look, go and see what's
22 happening. They're shooting from the hill up there at ours." We said,
23 "But that is your checkpoint, your observation post. They are shooting."
24 And then he ordered the fighting to stop. And a couple of minutes later,
25 he was angry. He was really angry. He started shouting and cursing, and
1 he said that all of us inhabitants of Brkici should remain in the village,
2 whereas he hurried on with some 30 men that he had in his units towards
3 the centre of Biljani. And it was only the next day that we learnt that
4 Cehic Hamdo had been killed, and we also learnt next day that 50 to 60 men
5 had been taken from Osmanovici, Cehici, and the centre of Biljani to the
6 school -- to the elementary school in Kljuc.
7 Q. After this and other -- this visit or search or presence of army,
8 before 10 of July, did any group of soldiers come to your village again?
9 A. Correct. Occasionally when they went to the front lines, passing
10 through the village from Sanica they would often shoot at the houses.
11 Also on the 20-something of June, from the direction of Sanica, soldiers
12 arrived. As my house is in a position that I can see the road, 1
13 kilometre towards Sanica and 1 kilometre towards Kljuc, we noticed
14 soldiers coming from Sanica. And after five or ten minutes, people said,
15 "The soldiers are coming again from Gologlavo and from Lancari," that is,
16 from that part of our village. Just then soldiers -- reservists came.
17 That is, the local inhabitants of Lancari. There were even some civilians
18 among them who were armed and carrying rifles and who said that all men
19 between 18 and 60 should come out of their houses, go to the locality of
20 Jezerina next to our village, whereas the women and children should remain
21 in front of the houses that, no one should remain in the houses because
22 the soldiers would be searching the houses. We did as we were told, all
23 of us. And when this commander arrived, he introduced himself. He said
24 who they were and where they came from. It was a company from Lusci
25 Palanka. The soldiers went to search the village. And when he received
1 the report that there was no one in the village, that they hadn't found
2 any weapons there, we entered the village together with them. Before that
3 they had some sort of a list and they called out from that list my brother
4 Smajo Cajic, Feriz Dervisevic, and Omer Dervisevic and they took them with
5 them from Biljani towards Jabukovac and Polje, whereas the rest of us
6 inhabitants of the village remained in the village.
7 Q. And what happened to them? Did they return or were they arrested?
8 A. All three of them were brought back that evening around 7.00.
9 Q. On occasions of these searches, arrests, was ever anybody killed
10 in your village?
11 A. I said that only Hamdo Cehic had been killed the first time. And
12 that day we learnt immediately that Dzaferagic Abid had been killed and
13 Tehvid Omanovic. We were told this by Boro in person. Boro and Mladjo
14 Tesic, as they brought my brother and these other two to the village. And
15 the next day we also heard that Hasib Mujezinovic, also known as Djuza had
16 been killed. Then in the hamlet of Polje, another four or five men had
17 been killed. I can't remember the names now.
18 Q. You said -- you said: "On that day we learned immediately
19 that Dzaferagici had been killed." Which day are you referring --
20 A. Dzaferagici.
21 Q. Which day are you referring, the day when your brother was
23 A. Yes, yes, that day. And all these killings that I just listed
24 happened on that day.
25 Q. Did you see the bodies?
1 A. No, I didn't see the bodies of the killed because I didn't dare
2 leave the house. My late father went to fetch the bodies and to bury them
3 at the cemetery in Cehici.
4 Q. And one last question before we turn to the 10th of July. Did you
5 see any SDS representatives in your village on any of these occasions?
6 A. Yes. Vlado Umcanin the president of the SDS came on the day of
7 the ultimatum for the handover of weapons.
8 Q. And do you remember what did he say?
9 A. He came another day with Ajkic Redzo who was the leader of the SDA
10 party at the time. And he issued an ultimatum about the handover of an
11 automatic rifle and a hunting rifle, saying if that didn't happen the
12 whole village would pay for it. But as I said, I'm not quite sure what
13 day that was, the 25th or the 26th of May.
14 Q. So was this the only occasion when any representatives, either SDA
15 or SDS, ever visited your village?
16 A. I think it was, because I personally was present. Only Mr. Fikret
17 Balagic and Osman -- Balagic Fikret was secretary of Kljuc municipality.
18 He lived in Brkici. Hamdic Osman, who worked in the military department
19 after the handover of weapons -- I can't tell you which colonel they
20 addressed, but they tried to arrange some kind of co-existence and they
21 went to Sanica four or five times for talks and negotiations. And they
22 had even come to some sort of an agreement on co-existence and the
23 protection of Muslims, saying that no one could hurt us. Unfortunately
24 this colonel did not live long after that. He was killed somewhere on the
25 front, so that nothing ever came of that agreement.
1 Q. Now I would like to focus on the 10th of July. And now I'm a
2 little bit lost with the break.
3 JUDGE AGIUS: I thought you had been consulted.
4 Have you consulted the Prosecution as well?
5 The plan is to go on till 4.40. We may require one, two-minutes
6 to change the tapes. Until then, we'll go straight to 4.40. Then we'll
7 have a 20-minute break. We'll start -- recommence at 5.00 and we'll
8 finish at 6.30. So we'll only have a 20-minute break between now and the
9 end. However, if -- if that creates problems for you, madam, we could --
10 MS. RICHTEROVA: No, it doesn't create -- I wasn't --
11 JUDGE AGIUS: No, it's my fault. I thought you had been
12 consulted, actually. So it's not a problem. I tried to economise as much
13 as possible on breaks so that you could possibly finish with this witness
14 today, if that was your intention. Thank you.
15 MS. RICHTEROVA:
16 Q. As I said, now I would like to focus on the day of 10 July 1992.
17 Can you start from the morning. What happened which -- which you
18 remember, the first thing which struck your attention.
19 A. Let's start by saying that the first thing that I noticed was that
20 I got up early, which is my habit. Around 6.00 I was still lying in my
21 bed. I heard four or five shots coming from different directions. I
22 found that suspicious, and subconsciously I thought something was wrong,
23 as if they were making some sort of an arrangement. Then I woke another
24 three or four men who had houses along the road but were no longer
25 sleeping in their houses. They had withdrawn from the road to be safer,
1 and they never spent the night in their own houses. They -- for the last
2 two months. And when we got up, we discussed what it could be and what we
3 should do next. We were going to cut the grass in Lancari. And the
4 previous day the young man whose grass was to be cut had gone to ask Serbs
5 whether we could go and cut grass and said -- and they said, "Of course.
6 There's no problem. We will even make sure that no one will interfere
7 with your work."
8 Q. I'll just stop you here. When you said that you asked your
9 neighbour for permission to cut the grass, why did you do it? Was it your
10 obligation to ask your neighbours for permission?
11 A. We couldn't leave the village and go anywhere, because the police
12 informed us that we were not allowed to leave the locations. We weren't
13 allowed to go to the forest, to walk around the meadows, to go to other
14 hamlets and walk around other hamlets. So about -- at the end of the 30th
15 of May, our movement was restricted a hundred per cent. We weren't even
16 allowed to go from one hamlet to another. And to go -- to cross a
17 checkpoint, we couldn't even think about doing this.
18 Q. So now we can return again back to 10 of July. You said you
19 wanted to cut the grass. You woke up at 6.00 in the morning. And please
20 go on.
21 A. As I said, from the upper village Jasarevici, Enis Jasarevic, came
22 by and he said, "Listen the village is surrounded, and we have all been
23 ordered to gather at Jezerina." All men between the age of 18 and 60, and
24 women and children are to remain at home, they're to go outside of their
25 houses because the village will be searched again. Normally this is what
1 we did. And we were among the first to head towards Jezerina. And at
2 about 30 or 40 metres away I quite by accident looked in the direction of
3 Jezerina, the so-called meadow, and I saw some armed soldiers there. They
4 were on guard. They'd been positioned there. They were talking, and
5 their rifles were pointing in our direction. I looked towards Glavica and
6 up there I saw five or six soldiers. They were standing there too. And
7 naturally, without thinking about this, since soldiers had already passed
8 by and they'd cleaned up the village, well, we thought okay, we'll go to
9 Jezerina, they can do their job, and we'll carry on as usual.
10 When the late -- the late father, he was ill. He had diabetes.
11 And he was at the limit -- at the age limit. He was about 60 years. I
12 said, "Are you going?" He said, "No, you go, my son. I'll remain at
13 home." This is what we did. I can say that at that time people under 18
14 years of age also came out and people who were over 60 years of age. And
15 when we got to Jezerina when we all gathered there, behind our houses we
16 saw Marko Samardzija immediately. I knew him very well. First of all, he
17 was my teacher at elementary school for the first four classes. And for
18 four years he taught me history in elementary school. We saw him first of
20 Q. Mr. Cajic, can I stop you for a second again. You said you saw
21 Marko Samardzija, who was your teacher at the elementary school. At this
22 point what -- what was Marko Samardzija -- in which capacity was Marko
23 Samardzija in Jezerina?
24 A. Samardzija was with Tesic Mladjo there. He was standing there
25 with him. And when we approached them, I noticed, given that only he
1 addressed us, I noticed a sign on Marko Samardzija. At the time it was
2 the rank of captain. And Mladjo Tesic, I saw he had insignia. He told us
3 that Marko Samardzija was his deputy -- I apologise, that Tesic Mladjo was
4 his deputy. I knew him too, since we lived in the same neighbourhood.
5 Q. So could I stop you again. You are talking too fast, so please
6 slow down a little bit.
7 JUDGE AGIUS: [Microphone not activated] Within the next five
8 minutes we will need to stop for about a minute. So whenever it's
9 convenient for you --
10 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone please, Your Honour.
11 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Within the next five minutes, we will need to
12 stop for about two minutes to have the tapes changed.
13 MS. RICHTEROVA: I can --
14 JUDGE AGIUS: Whenever it's convenient for you. I mean, I'm just
15 telling you five minutes ahead.
16 MS. RICHTEROVA:
17 Q. You said you saw Marko Samardzija and he had the sign for captain.
18 What did he wear?
19 A. He had three stars on his pocket, whereas Mladjo Tesic had three
20 broad lines on his shoulders. And I can also mention that they had all
21 ribbons of the same colour which had been tied to their shoulders.
22 Q. And you said that he had a rank of captain. So did he wear some
23 uniform, Marko Samardzija?
24 A. Yes, Marko Samardzija was also wearing an olive-grey uniform,
25 whereas Mladjo Tesic was in camouflage uniform. That's how it was.
1 Q. And did you know at that time which unit did he belong?
2 A. I didn't know which unit Marko belonged to at the time, but I do
3 know that in -- when -- before they had moved around the battlefields and
4 on the basis of what certain people had said, I knew that he was a company
5 commander since that on day he was the one giving orders, saying how we
6 would line up, saying where we would go. He provided us with all the
7 instructions that we had to carry out.
8 MS. RICHTEROVA: I think we can stop at this stage.
9 JUDGE AGIUS: So I will have a two-minute break, during which time
10 the tapes can be changed. And then we'll continue. Everyone will remain
11 seated, please. As soon as we have the thumbs-up sign, then we can
12 resume. I think we can resume already. Is that correct? Yes.
13 Madam Richterova, you may proceed. We've got very efficient
15 MS. RICHTEROVA:
16 Q. So you said that Marko Samardzija gave you some orders; is that
18 A. That's correct. First of all, Marko Samardzija, when we lined up,
19 before we saw about another 20 soldiers who were concealed. And when we
20 lined up, they all came out and surrounded us. Marko Samardzija first of
21 all spoke to Fiko and Osman. I didn't hear this conversation. And then
22 he went in front of the line-up and he said that we had been lined up
23 there and that we would be taken to the elementary school in Biljani. We
24 were told that we had nothing to be afraid of and that whoever was not on
25 the list of Amer Avdic and Amer Filipovic, they would be released and
1 that whoever was on the list would be taken to the police station in
2 Kljuc. I think that at that time, before we headed towards the school,
3 Mladjo said that people over 60 years of age and people under the age of
4 18 could return home. They were the first to leave the line-up. And then
5 in columns, two by two, we headed in the direction of the village and
6 passed through the village in the direction of the elementary school in
8 Q. You said that you were lined up and they surrounded you. Can you
9 be more specific. Who surrounded you?
10 A. Marko Samardzija personally ordered us to line up two by two, so
11 one behind the other. And then once we had lined up, from the surrounding
12 hedges and from behind trees, from the shadows soldiers approached. And
13 when they approached us, I knew them all because these were inhabitants
14 who were wearing uniforms, olive-grey uniforms, people from Lancari and
15 Gologlavo. I personally knew these people since this is my neighbourhood.
16 Q. And did you know which unit these people belonged? Were they just
17 regular -- were they regular soldiers or reserve soldiers or policemen?
18 A. I think they were from the reserve forces of the JNA army, given
19 that these same units knew on previous occasions to go to the battlefield
20 from the direction of Sanica, they would go to Jajce, to Bihac, et cetera.
21 Q. So as you said, you were lined up and you were ordered towards the
22 Biljani school. What happened when you approached the school? What did
23 you see?
24 A. About 20 or 30 metres from the school -- as we approached it, the
25 first thing I noticed was there were quite a few soldiers there. And then
1 in front of the shop that we had in Biljani, I saw about 20 or 30 women in
2 front of the shop and they were surrounded by soldiers. And then as we
3 moved on, in front of the school itself I saw a white van. And in front
4 of that white van, there were policemen. In this case, they were wearing
5 camouflage uniforms, all of them, and they had white belts. At that
6 moment they were putting their belts on and their pistols and truncheons
7 and they were putting their gloves on, because I knew one of the young men
8 personally and one of them said, "Look, they're good soldiers. All sorts
9 of things are going to happen here." And then 5 metres on, Marko
10 Samardzija was going there and in front of a tree, in front of the school
11 itself, Tomic, the commander of the police in Sanica was standing there,
12 and another person was standing there, Marceta. I didn't know him
13 personally. I knew him by sight. And then there was another person
14 standing there, a couple of people. I knew the director of the factory in
15 Sanica. He was one of the persons I knew. I can't remember his first and
16 last name, but I knew him personally because I would go to the factory
17 very often to buy material there. And then we continued to advance and we
18 entered the school. We went into the corridor.
19 Q. Can you describe the school, the building. Was it a ground floor
20 building with floors? How many rooms were inside?
21 A. Part of the building was on the ground floor, but above a
22 classroom -- there were only three classrooms in the building, 2 by length
23 and 1 across and there was a common room above one of the classrooms,
24 the last one and the common room, there was a two-roomed flat, which was
25 used by Slavko, who up until then had been the teacher. And his wife
1 Tanja, they taught in that school.
2 Q. So when you said, if I understand correctly, on the ground floor
3 there were two classrooms and one common room; is that correct?
4 A. Three classrooms and one common room. Two classrooms were
5 extended lengthwise, and then the third one was across. I can draw a
6 sketch for you if you like, since I went to this school for four years.
7 Q. I think this was quite -- it's quite obvious how the school looks
9 You were asked -- you were ordered to the ground floor classrooms.
10 A. I still haven't said. When we entered the hall, there were about
11 ten policemen there and they were in camouflage uniform and had white
12 belts. They had previously searched us. And everything we had in our
13 pockets and on us, they took all this away, our watches, for example. And
14 then as they searched each person, they would send that person to the
16 In the first classroom -- the first classroom was already full and
17 the inhabitants of Brkici -- we inhabitants of Brkici filled up the second
19 Q. Do you know -- you said the first classroom was already full, so
20 you -- were you able to look inside and tell us how many people
21 approximately could be inside?
22 A. I can't assess this figure with precision. All I know is that all
23 the seats had been taken. So in a classroom, there'd be up to 35 seats.
24 I couldn't see everything, but I know that there were other people
25 standing around against the wall.
1 Q. So you were ordered to the second classroom; is that correct?
2 A. That's correct.
3 Q. Were there already some people inside of the classroom?
4 A. Yes, there were some people there.
5 Q. And at the end, how many -- approximately how many people were
6 inside of this second classroom?
7 A. In my opinion, I think there were about 60 and something people
8 from Brkici and at least another 30 others, since later on five or six
9 people entered. So in my opinion, between 90 and 100 people were there.
10 Q. When this classroom was full, did you see that some other people
11 would enter the school or were approaching the school?
12 A. No, I didn't. Only about half an hour later through the window
13 one young man said, since I was sitting next to the window, he said, "Here
14 are the people from Botonici." There were about 30 people from Botonici
15 and they were brought in next to the school -- I don't know where they
16 went. They didn't enter the classroom where we were.
17 Q. So when you were inside of the classroom, what happened?
18 A. For the first half an hour, nothing happened. And then, half an
19 hour later, Mihic first came. I know he was the commander -- the deputy
20 commander, since Mujo told me that he was deputy commander of the police
21 in Sanica. And he was a mechanic, an auto mechanic, and he would often
22 come to my house since he repaired my television. Mihic was the first to
23 enter. He said we should calm down a little. And he said that he would
24 compile some sort of a list and make a record and he said that we had
25 nothing to be afraid of. And after -- first of all, he started making
1 this list. And about ten minutes later, Lazic, a young man, turned up,
2 also from the neighbourhood, and he was a member of the reserve forces of
3 the police. He was wearing a blue police uniform. He carried on
4 compiling this list. And we provided our full names and the date -- our
5 dates of birth and the names of our fathers for this list. Once they had
6 finished making the record, they left the premises. And in front of the
7 premises there was a policeman in camouflage uniform who stood outside all
8 the time. He had a rifle and he was standing at the door itself. The
9 door was open almost all the time.
10 Q. So when this policeman took all your names, what happened after
12 A. For the next ten minutes or so -- I don't know -- a soldier
13 entered. He only read out ten names from a list. And once he had checked
14 the names of these people, the people responded to this -- to these names
15 that had been read out and then he left the classroom. And then 10 or 15
16 minutes later, from the hall -- no one else entered any more, but from the
17 hall we were told that -- that Mujezinovic Smail should come out. And a
18 few minutes after Smail you could hear the name Domazet Hamdija being
19 called out and then Habir and after Habir, Omer Dervisevic, and after
20 Omer, Efriam and his two sons and then Avdic Smail and then it was
21 Ale Cajic's turn. Ale Cajic was next to me. And when he got to the door,
22 he intended to return. This all lasted for about 15 minutes. When he
23 wanted to return to pick up his jacket, he told the policeman at the door
24 that he had forgotten his jacket. The policeman told him, "You won't need
25 it any more. You don't have to return to get it." And after each person
1 had left --
2 Q. Mr. Cajic, I will stop you here because I would like to use a
3 document. And I think we will have some discussions about this document.
4 And I would like to leave it after the break, because I think this is the
5 most suitable time for the break.
6 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. Thank you. Thank you. So we'll have
7 20-minute break, resuming sharp at 5.00, please. Thank you.
8 --- Recess taken at 4.39 p.m.
9 --- On resuming at 5.02 p.m.
10 JUDGE AGIUS: [Microphone not activated]
11 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please, Your Honour.
12 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. In the meantime, you can phrase your question,
13 Madam Richterova, please.
14 MS. RICHTEROVA: In fact, I do not want to phrase --
15 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, I think perhaps without the presence of
16 Defence counsel ...
17 JUDGE AGIUS: They are on the way. I saw them coming. I mean, we
18 said 5.00. It's after 5.00. We've lost five minutes.
19 MS. RICHTEROVA: I do -- for now, I do not want to ask a
20 question. I want to show the witness the document, which is 9.474. And
21 it is the exhumation report which we disclosed on Friday.
22 MR. ZECEVIC: [Microphone not activated]
23 JUDGE AGIUS: So please hand the witness document P1071. Is it
24 that document?
25 MS. RICHTEROVA: Yes, it is a document which I would like to
1 tender into evidence under P1071.
2 Your Honour, this is an exhumation report which will be dealt with
3 in details by our expert witness on exhumations. And I do not want to go
4 into any details with this witness. I only want him to confirm or not
5 confirm names of people, whether he saw them, whether he knew them, and
6 that's all what I want to do with this witness. This document is in
7 B/C/S. And it has been sent for translation with the amount of documents
8 which refers to exhumations, we are just not able to receive all
9 translations in time. But by the time when our expert will testify, we
10 will have all relevant translations in our hands. So I would like to ask
11 you whether you agree that I will use this document which is only in
12 original language.
13 JUDGE AGIUS: Is there any objection forthcoming from the Defence?
14 I think, considering that she's only going to refer to names and not to
15 details, we can -- we can move ahead. Okay?
16 Yes, you may proceed along the lines you've indicated and not
17 beyond for the time being.
18 MS. RICHTEROVA:
19 Q. Before we adjourned, you listed names of people who were called
20 out from the corridor. Do you still remember the names you mentioned?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Would you be so kind and open -- open the document which you have
23 in front of you. And on the right-hand bottom side, you will see
24 numbers. And I -- I would like to go to number 145, on the right-hand
25 bottom side. It's --
1 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Thank you, usher, for helping.
2 MS. RICHTEROVA: It's also ERN number 00473481.
3 Q. Can you see it?
4 A. I can.
5 Q. There is body number 79. Can you read the name, please, under
6 this number.
7 A. Yes, Dervisevic Omer.
8 Q. Is this the person who was called and who was on the list which
9 was read by that policeman?
10 JUDGE AGIUS: I think -- sorry to interrupt you, but I think you
11 have to perfect this line of -- this series of questions. At this point
12 in time, although I don't understand the language, I think while the
13 witness has the document in front of him and he's being referred to a
14 particular person with number 79 and the name of this person being
15 identified by you as Omer Dervisevic, I think we need to proceed -- if
16 you're going to ask him whether he's the same person, you need to proceed
17 with the rest of the details contained in the first line, which is son of
18 Feta and born, et cetera.
19 MS. RICHTEROVA: Yes, Your Honour. I will do it.
20 JUDGE AGIUS: Otherwise the question does not really follow. You
21 know, I mean ...
22 MS. RICHTEROVA: I apologise. Thank you.
23 JUDGE AGIUS: It's not a question of apologising. It's a question
24 of trying to streamline the questions -- or the system of questioning so
25 that it makes more sense.
1 MS. RICHTEROVA:
2 Q. So Mr. Cajic, can you read the name and other whereabouts of that
3 person under number 79, please.
4 A. I can read it out and I can also say that Omer Dervisevic is the
5 son of Feta and Duda that he was born in 1964, that he is the father of
6 two children, a son and a daughter who are now 11 and 8 years old
8 JUDGE AGIUS: Listen to me. Let's do it differently. When
9 Madam Richterova refers you to a particular person or name indicated in
10 this document, please just look at the first line or so where the name and
11 the personal details are listed and answer the question whether you think
12 that the person mentioned in this document is the same person that you
13 referred to previously in your evidence before we had a break. Just say,
14 "Yes, this seems to be the same person or I'm sure it's the same person,
15 no, I have doubts," and then you explain why you have doubts. Do you
16 understand me? Can you follow me?
17 Yes, yes, I know but --
18 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I do understand. Fully.
19 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, Mr. Ackerman.
20 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, I think there may be some kind of an
21 error in the transcript or translation or something.
22 JUDGE AGIUS: I wouldn't be surprised.
23 MR. ACKERMAN: The question -- it's at line -- the question and
24 answer beginning at 4825 going on to 49.1 through 5. We're talking about
25 someone who was allegedly killed in 1992. And the transcript indicates
12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and
13 English transcripts.
1 that he has an eight--year-old daughter or son. I can't tell which,
2 which -- you know, it's not possible, I don't think. So I think there
3 must have been misinterpretation or something.
4 JUDGE AGIUS: When you referred to Omer Dervisevic and you said he
5 was son of Feta and Duda, he was born in 1964. He was the father of two
6 children, a son and a daughter, who are now -- how old are they now?
7 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Now the son is about 11 or 12 and
8 the daughter is 8 or 9, just now, at this point in time. I'm not sure,
9 but I do know them personally, as Omer Dervisevic's house is only 200
10 metres away from mine.
11 JUDGE AGIUS: Let's leave it. Let's not go into details.
12 Go ahead, Ms. Richterova.
13 MS. RICHTEROVA:
14 Q. So Mr. Cajic, do you confirm -- do you confirm whether it -- it is
15 the person who was called?
16 A. That is true. That was the person who was called out. He was the
17 third or fourth in order. I'm not quite sure, but that is Omer
19 Q. Can you have a look at the following page. On the top you will
20 see the words "Usrok Smrti." Would you be so kind and --
21 MR. ZECEVIC: I'm sorry. I have to object at this time, Your
22 Honour, because we -- we were of understanding that only the names and the
23 whereabouts of that person indicated who this person was were the -- were
24 the basis of this --
25 JUDGE AGIUS: What does -- what does "Usrok Smrti" mean in any
2 MR. ZECEVIC: "Usrok Smrti" means the cause of death.
3 JUDGE AGIUS: Yeah. But forget about that. Because that you're
4 going to establish by means of an expert witness, you say. So we don't --
5 it's okay.
6 MR. ZECEVIC: How could the witness know.
7 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes.
8 MR. ZECEVIC: And Your Honour, if I may say one thing: In my
9 opinion, it would be much more appropriate if we go through the -- through
10 the witness's statement where the witness has listed the names of the
11 persons and give us all the details that he knows about these persons and
12 not to consult this document, because it is obvious that there is some
13 misunderstandings. And this might be understood as indication that the
14 certain corpse does belong to that person. For example, the corpse 81 is
15 without a head. How can it be decided that it is this person after all?
16 JUDGE AGIUS: No. But there I don't agree with you. I don't
17 agree with you. It could be done, the way you are suggesting. It's
18 true. But it could also be done the way it is being done now. And
19 it's -- the Prosecution is seeking to prove is nexus between the names
20 that appear on this document on which then someone else will testify and
21 the names that the witness mentioned; in other words, whether the witness
22 recognises in the name on this -- on the face of this document the same
23 person that he's referring to before.
24 MR. ZECEVIC: I understand fully, Your Honours. But it's the --
25 it's the matter of asking the witness the names and the particulars about
1 a certain person --
2 JUDGE AGIUS: But let's proceed the way we are doing. And I will
3 not allow the question, of course, that Madam Richterova was trying to
5 MR. ZECEVIC: Thank you, Your Honours.
6 JUDGE AGIUS: Move to the second -- thank you. Move to the next
7 name, if you're finished with this one.
8 MS. RICHTEROVA: Yes. I'm not quite sure whether the witness
9 answered my question, because I do not have it here. So if you allow me,
10 I will --
11 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, I think he did answer your question. He says
12 it's the same person.
13 MS. RICHTEROVA: Thank you.
14 Q. Then I would like you --
15 JUDGE AGIUS: According to him, you know.
16 MS. RICHTEROVA:
17 Q. -- to have a look at the page 149, which is on the right-hand
18 bottom side. And the ERN number is 00473485. If you could have a look
19 under the number 101.
20 JUDGE AGIUS: It's barely legible here.
21 MS. RICHTEROVA: It's barely legible. I agree but we do not have
22 a better copy?
23 A. Yes, I can. Cajic Ale.
24 Q. Can you read the whole whereabouts which are next to this name?
25 A. Cajic Ale, son of Muharem, born on the 9th of April, 1955, from
1 Donji Biljani.
2 Q. Is this the same person you were referring to in your previous
4 A. Yes, it is the same person, the last person that left, who is my
5 cousin and who left his jacket behind in the classroom.
6 Q. And I will ask you last name in this series. If you could go to
7 the page number 159, which is also marked as 00473495. And if you could
8 have a look at the number 139. Can you read the name and the whereabouts.
9 A. Domazet Hamdija, son of -- I can't see the name. Born on the 15th
10 of April, 1946, from Donji Biljani. Yes, as the year of birth coincides.
11 I can't read out the name of the father.
12 Q. So --
13 A. That is that person, yes.
14 Q. Now I will move further. You said after -- what happened in the
15 room after these persons were called out? Could you here something
17 A. I already mentioned that after the -- each one of these persons
18 were led out, five or ten minutes later one could hear bursts of
19 fire and shots. At one point the policeman who was guarding the classroom
20 smiled and said, "You see how your Green Berets are attacking us. But
21 we'll fix it in a moment. Don't worry. No one will hurt you. We'll get
22 rid of them soon." And after the last one left, Mihic came again and
23 ordered that we get ready, that five by five we would be leaving in the
24 order when the soldier tells us we can leave. And the first groups of men
25 started leaving in fives.
1 Q. You were inside of the room and you said that after these people
2 left, you could hear the burst of fire. Were you able to see something
3 from the window?
4 A. Correct. While the men were leaving in groups of five, before
5 Mr. Mihic came, the deputy commander of the police. In the meantime two
6 buses arrived from the direction of Kljuc and they parked in front of the
7 school. As I was sitting next to the window, I saw half of a bus in front
8 of the school and I saw when another gentleman arrived wearing a blue
9 uniform who greeted Marko Samardzija. I didn't see who else was there,
10 but I remember that the director of the sawmill was there and some other
11 men, five or six of them. And from the classroom I could see some men
12 were being loaded onto the bus and being beaten in front of the bus.
13 Q. Could I ask --
14 A. Then I saw --
15 Q. I will stop you. If you could speak a little bit slower for the
16 interpreters. And I would like to ask you, you said you saw Marko
17 Samardzija outside at the time when the buses arrived. Is it correct?
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. Do you by any chance know approximately what time it was?
20 A. I'm not able to say. I just know that it was about half past 9.00
21 because according to some estimates, between 7.00 and 9.00 we were in the
22 classroom and when we started leaving, it was about 9.00, and this went on
23 for the next half hour or 45 minutes, so it was between 9.00 and 10.00 in
24 the morning.
25 Q. So I interrupted you at the moment when you said you were able to
1 see through the window buses and some people being beaten in front of the
2 buses. Please go on, what more you saw.
3 A. Correct. After that I saw Mile, Bakan. Mile, also known as
4 Bakan, I knew him. He would come to our village frequently. He took five
5 men across the road, close to a house. And shortly after that -- or
6 rather, throughout we could hear shooting. After a while, he came back
7 alone. In the meantime, it was already my turn to leave the classroom,
8 which I did, and I stood right in front of the door. In the meantime,
9 Osman Avdic, apparently saw something and said, "Men, hurry into the
10 buses. They'll kill us all." I was just leaving the classroom at that
11 point in time with another five men, and I reached the hallway. There was
12 a policeman there in camouflage uniform. And from the hallway he would
13 let one by one pass. I didn't see anything clearly except two soldiers.
14 When I reached the actual door, when my turn came, I managed to see
15 through the door, which was open all the time, that the policeman in front
16 was beating Fiko Balagic and running after him. Then I saw some 10 or 15
17 older men leaning against a wall across the way from the school with their
18 hands behind their heads, and I remember a policeman saying to me, "Why
19 did they bring you here?" And I said, "I have no idea. I haven't done
20 anything." And then he said, "You are free to go." And as I set off, in
21 the meantime just as I was about to leave Fiko was already entering the
22 bus and I looked forward towards the bus and I saw the whole yard in front
23 of the school, as I was going down the steps. Just then I again saw this
24 same group under the linden tree and 10 or 15 policemen who had made a
25 line up to the bus, then 20 or 30 reservists, reserve soldiers standing
1 next to them. I also saw on the fence a friend of mine -- I'm sorry.
2 First I saw Dragan Cvijic, who used to work in the coffee bar that I made
3 in Kljuc. Since I knew him well, I looked him in the eye and I thought he
4 would help me, because someone has recognised me, and he looked me in the
5 eye. At that moment he turned his head away. And as I passed by him, I
6 felt him turn around quickly, so I too turned around. So with the toe of
7 his shoe, he kicked me in the ribs and also with his fist. And just then
8 I realised that I, too, would be beaten, and I hurried between the line to
9 get onto the bus. This lasted for about 10 or 15 seconds, the length of
10 the bus. I don't know what they beat me with nor how, but I know I
11 reached the door of the bus, where there was another policeman and five or
12 six other men. He was standing on the steps of the bus, and he asked me,
13 "Do you want to sit down?" I didn't know what to say.
14 In the meantime, the men behind me were being beaten on the back
15 and everywhere else. After 10 or 15 seconds - I don't remember exactly
16 how long this went on for - I was shoved into the bus and I was ordered to
17 go to the very back, to crawl to the back of the bus, which I did. And
18 all I was able to see in the bus was that some people were sitting. There
19 was no sitting room, so I sat at the very back door so that in front of me
20 was the glass window of the bus. In front of me was Refik Avdic, and
21 behind me Fiko Balagic. I was hurting all over, and orders were coming,
22 "Heads down. Don't look through the window," and things like that.
23 In the meantime, while I was inside already, I heard that they
24 were bringing the next group, beating them. If somebody fell, they would
25 say, "Take him away. He's not fit for anything." Then he would say,
1 "Leave this one to me. He's mine." And there were all kinds of such
2 things. They beat them, and all the time until the bus was packed full.
3 I had in front of me this linden tree, this tree, and all this. And I had
4 to watch, because I was sitting on the back seat. In the meantime, the
5 man up front said, "There's no more room in the bus." And then I heard
6 and saw one of the soldiers ordering us to bow our heads and lie down, and
7 I heard when one soldier walked up to this group, I saw him walk up to
8 this group under the linden tree and ask, "What are we going to do with
9 the others when they can't fit into the bus?" And one of them - I don't
10 know who - said, "Kill them all. We don't need them any more." And
11 before that, I heard Osman being taken out and a man saying, "Leave him to
12 me. He used to work in the military department." And I don't know what
13 he said to him. I couldn't understand. The door of the bus closed, and
14 after that I was not able to see
15 anything else.
16 Q. Do you know approximately how many people were inside of this
18 A. Given that I went to school in these buses, I know that there are
19 between 45 and 55 seats and not more than 25 could have fitted in the
20 corridor. About 75.
21 Q. Did you see whether the other bus was full of people as well?
22 A. No, not at that time. I didn't see the other bus.
23 Q. So you were inside of the bus. And what happened further?
24 A. Shortly afterwards, shooting could be heard, bursts of fire.
25 There was noise. Then the bus left. And it hadn't -- after about 10
1 metres it stopped, a soldier entered again. He had a white belt on, and
2 he wanted four strong young men. And since he went up front -- we were
3 looking at him. We wanted to know what he wanted. He then chose first of
4 all two men and then another two, four in all, and he told the others to
5 bow our heads and not to move, and we did this.
6 Q. Do you know -- do you know any names of these four men who were
7 taken out?
8 A. Yes. I could recognise the first two men. My relative was there,
9 Avdic Amer, and I think Mujo Zukanovic was there, since he was a big man
10 and he had a moustache. I saw him briefly.
11 Q. So after these two men were taken out, what happened further? Did
12 the bus went on, or did you stop?
13 A. I said four men. I saw the first two men. I didn't see the other
14 two. The bus carried on, and he immediately told the person in uniform --
15 it went for another 100 metres or so. And the driver at that moment for
16 some unknown reason stopped. The bus came to a halt. A soldier entered,
17 and he asked for another five men. However, when some of them started
18 getting up, he said, "No, I don't want those in front. I want those at
19 the back." The driver opened the door. Since I've already said that Fiko
20 Balagic was sitting next to me, on the seat above the door itself
21 Avdic Besim was sitting there and Rufad Hodzic. They were the first two
22 to leave. And then I went out. And at that point in time I only saw Fiko
23 behind me. I saw Fiko. We headed towards -- the bus slowed down, which
24 was 10 metres away. And since they had told me we were going to the other
25 bus. When I was passing by the bus -- I almost had one foot in the bus
1 already. I looked inside and saw that there were only ten men in uniform.
2 One of them said, "No, not here. You don't have to go in here. You're
3 going to the back." I returned back, and I was the last person in the
4 line. Avdic Alija was in front of me. And we moved on in this way, one
5 in front, one behind.
6 We passed Mehmed Avdic and went down towards his stable. And when
7 we got to the stable, these people in front stopped and cried out, "What's
8 this, for God's sake," something like that. And since I couldn't move on
9 because of them, the person behind me shoved his rifle in my back and
10 said, "Advance, you balija." These people passed by. And when it was my
11 turn, I had a look below. There were four bodies from the previous ones I
12 already -- I recognised Amer Avdic. And the others -- I assumed the other
13 was Muja, and Rufad, who was the first man, when he passed over them he
14 turned right. When I passed over, I saw Besim turning left and I followed
15 him. We had only gone four or five steps when again a voice was heard and
16 they said, "You balijas, stop there. You're not going to go very far,"
17 and they started shooting. With the first burst of fire I only saw Besim
18 in front of me. I saw that he had lied down in front of me, and he
19 collapsed. At the moment I didn't know what to do. My legs failed me or
20 something like that happened. I threw myself down next to Besim, half a
21 metre in front, next to Besim himself. And as I had already seen that --
22 they all had automatic weapons. They had double clips. They were stuck
23 together. When they changed the clips, they started shooting again. I
24 wasn't hit by the second burst of fire either. And the third time they
25 continued shooting, on each occasion I was wondering what would happen,
1 but nothing hand on that occasion either. Things calmed down a bit. In
2 the meantime, I heard them calling from the bus and saying, "Hurry up, you
3 people down there. We're going to head towards Kljuc now." I can also
4 remember that another one of us was still groaning, and he cried out, "The
5 person there to the right is still alive," and he fired a burst of fire
6 for the fourth time. And I remember that the bullets passed over me,
7 since there was earth falling on me. They waited for minute, and then I
8 heard them moving away from the bodies or in fact moving away from that
10 Shortly afterwards you could hear the buses. They turned the
11 engine on and they headed in the direction of Kljuc. In the meantime, a
12 house was on fire in front and down below there was a house too and there
13 was smoke which started bothering -- irritating my eyes. From all the
14 directions, from everywhere, you could hear bursts of fires, groans,
15 singing, all sorts of songs, and shortly afterwards, only ten minutes
16 later, I didn't know where to go or what to do. I was quite simply
17 paralysed. All my life unfolded in front of me in a minute. I asked
18 myself what to do, where to go. And on the basis of previous occasions --
19 I know what happened in Velabici [phoen]. I know that they first of all
20 killed the people and they were collected by -- I knew they would come and
21 solve this too, deal with this too.
22 In the meantime, they came singing -- I won't say at the moment
23 whether they were soldiers or who they were. I know that they came. And
24 since there was a cafe there, say started shooting around it, they started
25 singing, and they started destroying the furniture. And then you could
1 hear them moving around the house. They passed down below the house and
2 some people called out. They said, "Have a look down here. There are
3 others down there." And someone would say, "No, I don't want to. I've
4 had enough today and then you heard someone say, "I'm going to set this
5 house on fire." And another person would say, "Don't. Perhaps someone
6 might need it." And then someone would say, "Who will need it. They
7 don't need it anymore." And then someone replied, "We'll need it
8 perhaps. Perhaps we would live in that house in the future. It's a pity
9 to destroy such houses. And then all sorts of things were discussed about
10 how many people had been killed. No problem.
11 Q. Mr. Cajic, if you want --
12 JUDGE AGIUS: [Microphone not activated] Mr. Cajic, if you need a
13 break, I'll give you a break.
14 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No, it's fine. No. Thank you.
15 MS. RICHTEROVA:
16 Q. Mr. Cajic --
17 JUDGE AGIUS: Any time you need us to stop, let us know.
18 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, Your Honour, please.
19 JUDGE AGIUS: Any time you need us to stop to give you a break,
20 let us know. If you need anything, please let us know.
21 MS. RICHTEROVA:
22 Q. Mr. Cajic, you mentioned that when you were taken out of the bus
23 and you started running and they were shooting on you that Besim fell down
24 next to you. What was his last name?
25 A. His name was Avdic Besim. He was born either in 1967 or 1968.
1 I'm not sure. He was also the father of two children, and his house is
2 only 20 metres away from mine.
3 Q. And you were also referring to some Fiko, which is most probably a
4 nickname. Do you know what was the name of that person?
5 A. Balagic [Realtime transcript read in error "Alagic"] Fikret, son
6 of Arif. He was 54 or 55 years old. He was the secretary of the
7 municipality in Kljuc. He lived in Brkici in the hamlet. Only -- his
8 house was only 100 metres away from mine.
9 Q. And did you see other bodies when you stood up?
10 A. Yes. At that point, once the soldiers had left, half an hour or
11 an hour had passed by. I'm not sure. I stayed there, lying. I turned my
12 head around a bit to see what there was behind me, and I saw -- I saw the
13 eight bodies, all of the eight bodies. My first thought was that I had to
14 flee. And I knew that I had to flee because they would come. I started
15 crawling. And after half a metre or a metre I turned to look behind me
16 and I saw that there was grass behind me. I returned a bit -- returned
17 back and then I jumped up and went to the first tree, which was about four
18 steps away, and I hid there. There was a small sort of wood there.
19 Q. I will stop you here for a second. And I would like to show you
20 the page 150 in the exhumation report, which is 00473486. A second ago --
21 can you have a look at the number 102. And I only want to confirm whether
22 it was -- whether you -- we got the name you said a second ago correctly.
23 Can you read this name and whether it is the same person you are referring
24 to as the person who was there with you or whether it is a different name.
25 A. Yes, Balagic Fikret, son of Arif, born on the 17th of April, 1940
1 in Donji Biljani. So at the time he was 52 years old. So this coincides.
2 I'm not sure for a year or two.
3 Q. It's only because in the transcript was Fikret Alagic, and I
4 didn't know whether we got the name correctly. So it -- the correct name
5 is Balagic Fikret.
6 A. Balagic.
7 Q. Thank you.
8 A. That's right.
9 Q. So after you stood up and crawled away, what happened? What did
10 you see? Where did you go?
11 A. I turned around again just to have a look, to make sure that there
12 was no one in the vicinity of the house. And I then saw the bodies there
13 again. There was no one around the house, and I moved about 10 metres
14 away from that site. I was always aware of the fact that they might come
15 and look for me and that they would follow my trail. I only rested there
16 for a short while and then I carried on crawling. I went to a place about
17 20 or 30 metres away, and I entered this area and I then heard shooting.
18 I wasn't sure and I didn't feel secure in that place either and I
19 continued crawling towards the river, which is about 100 metres from that
20 place and from the site where the houses are located. I went into the
21 cornfield which -- where I felt a little freer. And I had to carry on a
22 bit to place myself in this cornfield and I spent the whole night there.
23 You could hear shooting throughout the day, bursts of firing in Biljani.
24 And I saw from that place, since the Gologlavo, certain young men went to
25 the hamlet of Gologlavo, and I saw them passing by going to their houses
1 and I heard them shooting all the time. I stayed there until night fell,
2 until about 11.00 or half past 11.00, I'm not sure. And just before dusk
3 I heard from the direction of Kljuc how some heavy vehicles were arriving.
4 At the time I couldn't recognise them, but I know that these were lorries
5 and excavators. And I heard someone calling out, "Come here. Come to
6 this house so that we can collect these things here, these people here."
7 And then afterwards you would hear another voice saying,"Come here. Come
8 here too." And this continues until 11.00 at night. I'm not sure how --
9 for how long exactly, but I know that it continued late into the night.
10 Q. And what did you do after this? Where did you go?
11 A. That evening I went to my house. I found my father and my family
12 there. They asked me what had happened. At that time I wasn't able to
13 tell them much. All I know is I said that quite a few people had been
14 killed. I asked about my brother. I asked whether he returned. They
15 said, "No one has been returned -- no one returned, apart from Mujo Cajic
16 Dzaferagic Semso, Zukanovic Ismet, Omanovic Semsa, and Ismet's
17 relative -- I don't know -- Ismet's nephew, I can't remember his name.
18 Q. How long did you stay in Brkici?
19 A. In the morning, since I wanted to establish contact with Muja
20 and Semso Dzaferagic, they told me that they would come to search the
21 villages, that some soldiers would come to search the villages and they
22 told me that I should flee from the village. This is what I did. I took
23 clothes from my sister and I went to the nearby wood. And on that
24 evening, late that evening, because Mujo and Semso was fleeing because
25 someone had come to the village. You could hear the sound of an engine
1 and shooting. They fled from the village. And since I was above the
2 village, I wanted to have the village in front of me so that I could
3 observe what was happening, what was being done. I went to see them. And
4 we met there. And for the next seven days or up until ten days we spent
5 this time without food in a cave. And -- but we were no longer able to
6 carry on like that, so we then had to approach houses, since Mujo Cajic's
7 house is in a prominent place, his father's house, and his house. It's in
8 the vicinity of the wood, the first houses that were there. We approached
9 these houses and this is where we established contact for the first time
10 and that evening we even managed to have a shower, have a bath, and have
11 something to eat. And shortly afterwards, three or four days later, since
12 the commander of the police, Tomic, came to the villages. He was looking
13 for Semso Dzaferagic and he took him to Kljuc. I stayed on with Mujo
14 Cajic and hid in the woods, in the cornfields. And when Mujo's wife
15 established contact - I'm not sure with whom - he too, was transferred to
16 Kljuc, taken to Kljuc. So this continued for about a month. And I stayed
17 in Biljani for another month. I spent this time on my own in the woods or
18 in the vicinity of houses, where I would get food. And in September, on
19 the 20th, I think -- or in fact, on the 10th of September, my sister got
20 into contact with a Serb and they transferred me to Kljuc. And on behalf
21 of other -- I took some sort of card in another person's name for a convoy
22 for Travnik. I think I left for Travnik on the 20th of September, in a
23 trailer which was full of people.
24 Q. While hiding in the cornfield and the forest, were you able to
25 observe the hamlets, villages? Did you see in which conditions were
1 houses? Did you see what happened if anything happened, to mosques or
2 other religious buildings in your area?
3 A. The shooting was very intense for the first few days, on the 10th
4 of July, and then it calmed down for a while. And quite often I heard
5 Serbian soldiers coming to the village, looking for something. On one
6 evening I knew and I recognised the voices of my sister and of my mother.
7 When my mother was crying, I didn't know what was being done, but when she
8 started crying and shouting, "Where are you take my daughter," I heard
9 that he cursed her and my sister and said, "Go away," or something like
10 that. And then on one evening I heard them going to Avdic Alija's house,
11 because I was very near that house. I didn't see who it was and I can't
12 confirm this at the moment, but I do know -- I personally know that they
13 took a child out. I think that Buco [phoen] was the child's name. I
14 can't remember the exact name. I've forgotten it. They took the child
15 out. At the time the child was three or four years old. And all the time
16 they were saying -- since he was a salesman, he had a shop there. He
17 said -- he told his wife, "If you don't give us money, we'll kill the
18 child." I know that she gave them something because half an hour or an
19 hour later, after they had that quarrelled and after she had cried a lot,
20 they left the village and the woman stayed on. I remember --
21 Q. Mr. Cajic, my question was slightly different. I asked you about
22 the houses and the religious buildings. So if you would be so kind and
23 answer this question.
24 A. Very well. That's no problem. I said that for the first few days
25 they set the houses on fire. And this was quite intense. But 15 or 20
1 days later, while I was sleeping in the cornfields, a loud explosion could
2 be heard. I didn't know what was being done. I didn't know what was
3 happening. But on the following day I heard, since I went to get food,
4 that on that evening they had mined the mosque but they hadn't managed to
5 destroy it. It remained intact. And from the woods and the cornfields
6 where I hid, I spent the night in the cornfields. And in the daytime I
7 was in the woods because it was more secure for me and I could see the
8 entire village from there and I would know whether someone was coming to
9 the village.
10 I saw this on that morning. I saw the mosque and I saw that they
11 didn't destroy it, but they had mined it. But on that day they didn't
12 destroy it entirely. They only managed to set it on fire this was a
13 result of the explosives. And about a day or a day afterwards -- I think
14 it was about midnight. I heard a loud explosion. I assumed -- I guessed
15 what this was. And I had a look towards minarets, to the tower, and it
16 wasn't there any more.
17 Q. You said that you were able to observe the whole village. Can you
18 tell us what happened, if anything, to the houses.
19 A. In the hamlet of Brkici, they only set one house on fire. But as
20 I said, a day or two or three days after the 10th of July, I personally
21 saw how the houses around the mosque were burning and houses around the
22 school and in Osmanovici and in Jabukovac and in Polje. There were houses
23 burning there.
24 MS. RICHTEROVA: I would like to play a video. It's an excerpt
25 from the video which we already saw right at the beginning. It was the
1 video taken from -- by Mazhar Inayat, and we saw it at the beginning. And
2 this excerpt is from Kljuc. The exhibit number was or is P447. And I
3 would like the technicians to play this video.
4 [Videotape played]
5 MS. RICHTEROVA: Can you pause it here.
6 Q. Can you tell us what can we see on this picture.
7 A. Here you can see the centre of Biljani itself. This is the very
8 centre of Biljani. And you have the place where the school was located,
9 Mezernel [phoen], and part of the Cehici hamlet.
10 Q. You are referring where the school was. Can you describe it
11 better for us. How can we recognise where this school was?
12 A. The school is right here, where you can -- where there's an empty
13 space in this part and for the following 25 metres. That's where the
14 school was located.
15 Q. Is it -- what is here -- what is on that place now?
16 A. There is a monument to the mosque there, a monument to those
17 people who were killed. And there are graves there.
18 Q. And graves. So maybe for the record the place with the strips is
19 the graveyard.
20 A. Yes, yes.
21 Q. Is that correct? And then there was the school.
22 Then we can see some roads --
23 A. Yes, that's right.
24 Q. Can you describe the road from the top to the left and to the
25 right, where these roads are heading.
1 A. The road from the direction of Kljuc. There is a road that comes
2 down from -- from up and on the right it goes Dzaferagici and Osmanovici
3 and on the left you can cross the meadow and go to Brkici, and the road in
4 front goes towards Gornja Sanica.
5 Q. And which road were you taken by bus? Is it on this -- can we see
6 it on this picture?
7 A. You can see it clearly. In front of the school, when we left from
8 there, we got to this small entrance to the main road here. And this is
9 where they took four men off the bus. And then they continued up until --
10 Q. Sorry. Excuse me. On the screen, on which side of the screen we
11 can see it?
12 A. On the right-hand side, at the entrance to the school where the
13 cultural centre is, here, in front of the centre you reach the main road
14 from Sanica to Kljuc. And that is where the bus stopped.
15 Q. Can we go on --
16 JUDGE AGIUS: Are these details important for you?
17 MS. RICHTEROVA: It was just for you to have an idea.
18 And if we can play the video. It's very, very short. To see the
20 [Videotape played]
21 MS. RICHTEROVA: And if we can see the place where the bus
22 stopped, you can -- we can pause.
23 JUDGE AGIUS: Pause, please.
24 MS. RICHTEROVA:
25 Q. Can we see it now? No?
1 A. One could see it better earlier on. No, it's all right. We can
2 see it now. Here's the road.
3 MS. RICHTEROVA: Can we pause, please.
4 Q. So what can we see now? Can we see it now?
5 A. You can see the spot. It is on the extreme left of the screen,
6 where we see three roads intersecting. So in the middle of the screen
7 there's a very big house. And behind it was where the bus stopped for the
8 second time. And behind the house is the spot where the four men were
9 executed together with me, and before us the other four.
10 MS. RICHTEROVA: You can go on with the video.
11 [Videotape played]
12 MS. RICHTEROVA: And we can stop here. That's all. Thank you.
13 Q. Did you participate in exhumation which took place in Kljuc -- in
14 the Kljuc municipality?
15 A. Yes, I personally took part in the exhumation, as in those days I
16 had returned to my village. I was among the first to return to my village
17 of Brkici.
18 Q. Do you know how many bodies were exhumed and what was the name of
19 the location where the bodies were exhumed?
20 A. Yes. I was personally at the location of Laniste, where about
21 180 bodies were exhumed. I was also present at the exhumation that took
22 place after that, Crvena Zemlja, or "Red Earth," where 15 bodies were
23 exhumed, among others the body of my brother. That was the last body I
24 took out of the pit.
25 Q. Thank you. Now I would like to show you two documents. The first
1 one is -- was pre-marked P986.
2 MS. RICHTEROVA: And if we could place the English version on the
4 Q. I know that you haven't seen this document before, but I will read
5 you slowly parts of this document. And I only want you to confirm whether
6 the actions which are described in this document are consistent with the
7 events which occurred in Biljani.
8 This document is dated 9 of July, 1992 and it was issued by Kljuc
9 command, and it is an order for further operations. And it says: "I have
10 made the following decision: Use a part of the brigade to impose a total
11 blockade, search and mop up the territory in the sectors of Donji Biljani,
12 Domazeti, Botonici, Jabukovac, and Brkici villages.
13 "Readiness for operation, 0500 hours on 10 July 1992. The 2nd
14 Battalion of the 17th Light Infantry Brigade reinforced with a
15 reconnaissance platoon, a military police squad, and a police platoon, is
16 to block, search, and mop up the Donji Biljani, Domazeti, Botonici,
17 Jabukovac, Osmanovici and Brkici sectors."
18 And the last one: "When it gets dark, the platoon is to lay
19 ambushes and bomb the Domazeti-Osljak road. Stay there until 0500 hours
20 on 10 July and then search and mop up Domazeti. It is to join up with
21 other units of the 2nd infantry Battalion in the sector." And now it is
22 unknown. Probably the school in Donji Biljani.
23 And the very last sentence is: "The Sanica police platoon is to
24 move along the Sanica-Jabukavac-Donji Biljani route and establish a
25 checkpoint in the sector of the Donji Biljani school for processing
1 suspicious persons."
2 As you remember, were these places under the search and mop-up of
3 the army?
4 A. I can say with regard to the village of Brkici that it was mopped
5 up in detail and that every male between 18 and 60 was detained.
6 Q. Do you know --
7 MR. ACKERMAN: Excuse me a minute.
8 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes.
9 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, I just noticed that we've got the
10 English version on the ELMO so that the accused can't see the document
11 we're talking about. I thought we were putting the other one on there
12 these days so they could see them.
13 JUDGE AGIUS: I wasn't following the ELMO.
14 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, we discussed this before. Last time
15 we were in closed session; it didn't matter. But there are members of
16 the public here. They can follow what everybody is talking about. So I'm
17 afraid the accused will have to be given by their counsel copies of the
18 documents if they want to follow it.
19 JUDGE AGIUS: I think Ms. Korner is right, Mr. Ackerman. If we
20 can -- when we are in closed session and we can go round that, we do. But
21 when we are in open session, I'm afraid this is how it has to be done.
22 MR. ACKERMAN: I agree. My mistake.
23 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you.
24 Go ahead.
25 MS. RICHTEROVA: Now I would like to show the witness the second
1 document, which was pre-marked as Exhibit P986.
2 Q. And it is the same situation. I know that you haven't seen this
3 document, but I only want you to tell us whether it is consistent with
4 what really happened. So this document is an official note. And it's an
5 official note dated the 10th of July, 1992. And it says that it was
6 compiled in the Sanica SRM, which is reserve police station.
7 Further it says: "On the evening of 9 July 1992, I was informed
8 by the commander of the battalion quartered in Sanica that on the 10th of
9 July his units would undertake a mopping-up operation of the terrain,
10 meaning the area of the villages Gornji Biljani and Donji Biljani."
11 It further says: "On 10th of July, in the early morning hours,
12 the military units began the action, which included clearing out these
13 villages along with the hamlets of Jabukovac, Botonici, Brkici,
14 Osmanovici, Mesani, and Domazeti. It was planned to put the military
15 prisoners in the area school in Biljani."
16 And the last sentence -- last but one: "We were in constant
17 communication with organs of the military authorities. At the end of
18 their action it was agreed they would send two buses from Kljuc to take
19 the prisoners back to Kljuc, which was done."
20 The same -- the same question: Does it reflect the reality as you
22 A. Yes, quite so.
23 Q. And in connection with this document, I would like to clarify two
24 points. It's obvious that the police, apart from military, was involved
25 in the operation. And you mentioned that you saw the police in front --
1 in front of the school. Would you be so kind and describe once again for
2 us, what did this -- was it military police or normal police? First
4 A. I said already that I saw the commander of the ordinary police in
5 Sanica, Tomic Milan; then Mihic, his deputy; and also Lazic, who used to
6 work in Sanica. And the mentioned police, military police from Kljuc was
7 wearing camouflage uniforms and they had white belts. So this was the
8 military police, which was in front. And I also saw the commander of the
9 Sanica police station.
10 Q. You said that they had white belts. Did you notice something else
11 about these military policemen? Did they wear something else which would
12 strike your attention?
13 A. I repeated that they all wore camouflage uniforms, that most of
14 them wore red berets, that they were slightly better armed than others,
15 that all of them had truncheons, and some of them - and this I found
16 strange - I saw for the first time they wore black gloves with the fingers
17 cut off.
18 Q. And the second question: This document says "take the prisoners
19 back to Kljuc," and the document -- and the same document is mentioning --
20 is talking about military prisoners. Was there any resistance in Biljani
21 to your knowledge, military resistance of non-Serb population?
22 A. I personally can confirm that in Biljani, from the beginning of
23 May until the 10th of July, among Muslims not a single bullet was fired,
24 that weapons were not found on any one of them. And I can claim with
25 responsibility that not one of them ever uttered a nasty word to the
1 Serbs, to the soldiers, or to anyone at all.
2 Q. Thank you, Mr. Cajic.
3 MS. RICHTEROVA: Your Honours, I do not have further questions.
4 JUDGE AGIUS: [Microphone not activated] Who's going to go first?
5 Mr. Ackerman.
6 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, we haven't discussed it but --
7 JUDGE AGIUS: Yeah, I thought so.
8 MR. ACKERMAN: Yeah.
9 JUDGE AGIUS: I could read it in your eyes.
10 MR. ACKERMAN: We thought we would not be at this point today. So
11 whatever Your Honour wishes, I'm prepared to do, I guess.
12 JUDGE AGIUS: Well, if we could utilise the next 15 minutes.
13 First of all, let's deal with it like this: Mr. Ackerman, do you
14 intend to cross-examine the witness?
15 MR. ACKERMAN: I believe I have no questions of the witness, Your
16 Honour. I -- I might learn in the next few minutes that I do, but right
17 now I would say that I don't. I haven't had a chance to speak with my
18 client since we've heard this later testimony. Right now I have no
20 JUDGE AGIUS: And one moment.
21 MR. ZECEVIC: We are intending to --
22 JUDGE AGIUS: One moment, because your colleague is consulting
23 with your client. Mr. Zecevic.
24 MR. ZECEVIC: Your Honours, I would like to have some time to
25 consult with my client.
1 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, exactly. This is what I was going -- because I
2 would rather that these consultations do not take place in the courtroom
4 MR. ZECEVIC: Of course, Your Honour.
5 JUDGE AGIUS: So I think -- I think we will adjourn now and resume
6 tomorrow morning at -- tomorrow afternoon at 2.15.
7 MS. RICHTEROVA: Your Honour, may I say only one thing. Because
8 again I must apologise, my fault, but I didn't inform the witnesses that
9 I am using with the witness tomorrow one document, and it is the same as I
10 used today, which is P1071, this exhumation report from Laniste 1.
11 Nothing else. And I am also using one photograph, which is also relating
12 to this exhumation.
13 JUDGE AGIUS: Mr. Zecevic, do you need to consult with your client
14 now so that -- I'm asking you this question so that arrangements for
15 transportation of your --
16 MR. ZECEVIC: Your Honours, it is entirely -- it is entirely -- if
17 we can do it now, it would be much better.
18 JUDGE AGIUS: This is -- I'm asking you so that the arrangements
19 for the transportation is --
20 MR. ZECEVIC: Thank you very much. We need 20 minutes, not more
21 than that.
22 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]
23 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you. I thank you all. And we will resume
24 tomorrow afternoon at 2.15.
25 No, no, I think he goes out first. Usher, please escort the
1 witness out of the courtroom.
2 Thank you, and good evening.
3 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 6.20 p.m.,
4 to be reconvened on Tuesday, the 27th day
5 of August, 2002, at 2.15 p.m.