Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 14820

1 Wednesday, 26 February 2003

2 [Open session]

3 --- Upon commencing at 9.04 a.m.

4 [The accused entered court]

5 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, good morning, Madam Registrar, could you call

6 the case, please?

7 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning, Your Honours. This is case number

8 IT-99-36-T the Prosecutor versus Radoslav Brdjanin.

9 JUDGE AGIUS: [Microphone not activated] Good morning to you Mr.

10 Brdjanin. Can you follow the proceedings in a language that you can

11 understand?

12 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Good morning, Your Honour. I hear

13 and understand.

14 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you. Yeah, sorry about that. I didn't

15 realise it wasn't on. Appearances for the Prosecution.

16 MS. RICHTEROVA: Good morning, Your Honours, Anna Richterova,

17 Sureta Chana and Hasan Younis case manager.

18 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you and good morning to you. Appearances

19 for Radoslav Brdjanin?

20 MR. ACKERMAN: Good morning, Your Honours, I'm John Ackerman with

21 Brian Roberts.

22 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you and good morning to you both. So let's

23 go to private session for a short while because I need to communicate

24 something to you.

25 [Private session]

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19 [Open session]

20 MS. CHANA: Good morning, Your Honours.

21 JUDGE AGIUS: Good morning.

22 MS. CHANA: With your kind permission I will now call our next

23 witness, which will be 7.156, Dzevad Doslic.

24 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, he doesn't enjoy any --

25 MS. CHANA: No, he doesn't.

Page 14823

1 JUDGE AGIUS: Any measures so that will be in open session.

2 [The witness entered court]

3 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, good morning to you, Mr. Doslic.

4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good morning.

5 JUDGE AGIUS: And from your reaction, I take it that you are

6 receiving an interpretation of what I am saying in a language that you can

7 understand.

8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

9 JUDGE AGIUS: So I thank you. So let's proceed. You are about to

10 start giving evidence and before you do so, our rules require that you

11 make a solemn declaration that you will be telling us the truth and the

12 whole truth. That's the equivalent of an oath in several jurisdictions.

13 The text of the solemn declaration is contained in a piece of paper that

14 Madam Usher to your left is going to hand to you. Your duty is to read

15 that text aloud and that will be your solemn undertaking with this

16 Tribunal that you will be speaking the truth. Go ahead.

17 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will speak

18 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

19 WITNESS: DZEVAD DOSLIC

20 [Witness answered through interpreter]

21 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, sir. And you may sit down. What's

22 going to happen very briefly is that you are going to be asked a number of

23 questions, first from the Prosecution, and subsequently, and afterwards,

24 by the Defence of Radoslav Brdjanin, who is the accused in this case.

25 Your responsibility is towards justice and towards the truth. You have no

Page 14824

1 right to make a distinction between the Prosecution and the Defence. You

2 have to answer -- your duty is to answer any question irrespective of

3 where it's coming from, as fully and as truthfully as possible, and to the

4 best of your ability.

5 My other suggestion, and advice, to you is that from past

6 experience, witnesses that come over here tend to want to elaborate on the

7 information that is asked from them. That's a mistake. When you are

8 asked a question, try to answer the question, the whole question and

9 nothing but the question, because if you move outside the parameters of

10 the question, you might end up in a lot of undesired and undesirable

11 problems. Okay? So the witness is in your hands, Madam.

12 MS. CHANA: Thank you, Your Honour.

13 JUDGE AGIUS: Please go ahead.

14 MS. CHANA: With your kind permission I will lead the witness on

15 his personal particulars.

16 Examined by Ms. Chana:

17 Q. Good morning, sir. Your name is Dzevad Doslic; is that correct?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. You were born on 24th August, 1957; is that correct?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Your ethnic origin is Bosniak?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. And you're a Muslim by religion?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Your current occupation is an electrician?

Page 14825

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Now, could you tell me, did you complete your JNA military service

3 at any time?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. And when was that?

6 A. In 1978, 1978, 1977.

7 Q. 1978, 1977?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Did you ever serve in the army?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. For how long?

12 A. 15 months.

13 Q. That was during your compulsory service, was it?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Now, where were you employed in 1977?

16 A. In Sipad Janj company in Donji Vakuf.

17 Q. And how long did you remain in that job?

18 A. You mean before the army or after the army?

19 Q. After the army, sir.

20 A. After the army, all the way up to 1989, the beginning of 1990.

21 Q. Were you always a civilian or did you have any political

22 inclinations?

23 A. No. I was always a civilian.

24 Q. Can I take you to the end of 1991, please? And the beginning of

25 1992. Where were you working at that time?

Page 14826

1 A. At that time, in the beginning of 1991, I spent a month in

2 Austria.

3 Q. Did you ever visit Donji Vakuf at that time?

4 A. I had been in Austria only for one month.

5 Q. Yes. And did you return to Donji Vakuf after being in Austria for

6 a month?

7 A. I did.

8 Q. Could you please tell us what happened when you did come to Donji

9 Vakuf at that time?

10 JUDGE AGIUS: What happened generally or what happened to him?

11 MS. CHANA: To him as he walked into the city.

12 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. Is that clear to you? We are referring you

13 to your return to Donji Vakuf from Austria, and Madam Chana would like to

14 know what happened, as far as you are concerned, upon your return. What

15 did you find? What happened to you?

16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] You mean in 1991 or in 1992?

17 JUDGE AGIUS: When you returned from Austria to Donji Vakuf.

18 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] In 1991, I spent there one month and

19 then I was there again in 1992.

20 MS. CHANA:

21 Q. All right. So let's go to 1992. When did you come to Donji Vakuf

22 in 1992 to visit your family?

23 A. In 1992, that was in sometime July or August, end July, beginning

24 of August.

25 Q. Yes. What did you find as you entered Donji Vakuf? Were you

Page 14827

1 allowed to -- free access into Donji Vakuf?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. So what did you do when you went there?

4 A. I came to town, it was a Friday, I was supposed to return on

5 Sunday, and when we got on to the bus at the exit from Donji Vakuf, the

6 Serbian police stopped us and turned us back.

7 Q. Was it the police? How do you know it was the police?

8 A. Well, they had arm bands with Cyrillic writing on it saying the

9 police with the four S sign.

10 JUDGE AGIUS: Madam, I think -- I need to intervene a little bit

11 here because I see that we can potentially be heading towards a lot of

12 confusion here.

13 Sir, you told us that you spent one month in Austria working there

14 in 1991. When was that?

15 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

16 JUDGE AGIUS: When? Which month?

17 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] From June to July.

18 JUDGE AGIUS: Of 1991?

19 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

20 JUDGE AGIUS: And then you went back to Donji Vakuf?

21 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

22 JUDGE AGIUS: How long did you stay in Donji Vakuf before you went

23 back to Austria?

24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Almost a year, because in 1992, I

25 went there again.

Page 14828

1 JUDGE AGIUS: All right. Because then he relates events that had

2 took place in May and in June. So almost a year. So you then went to

3 Austria again. Do you remember the month in 1992 when you went to Austria

4 again?

5 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes I do.

6 JUDGE AGIUS: Which month?

7 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I don't know which month it was. I

8 know it was the end of spring, the beginning of summer. I can't tell you

9 exactly now because I don't remember.

10 JUDGE AGIUS: And how long did you stay there?

11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] A month.

12 JUDGE AGIUS: Another month?

13 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

14 JUDGE AGIUS: And you told us before that as far as you can

15 remember, you returned to Donji Vakuf in July or August of 1992.

16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No. That was in 1991.

17 JUDGE AGIUS: So in 1992, when did you return to Donji Vakuf?

18 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] In 1992, it was, I think -- I

19 couldn't tell you the exact month now but --

20 JUDGE AGIUS: If you say you went to Austria towards the end of

21 spring of 1992 and you only spent one month there.

22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Something like that.

23 JUDGE AGIUS: When do you think that you returned, then, to Donji

24 Vakuf? April, May?

25 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, I think it was the end of

Page 14829

1 April, something like that.

2 JUDGE AGIUS: All right. So that fits in the rest of the

3 statement that he made to you, because otherwise, having told us that he

4 returned to Donji Vakuf in 1992 in July, August, doesn't make sense.

5 MS. CHANA: Yes, Your Honour, thank you for that clarification.

6 JUDGE AGIUS: So we can go ahead, at least we know exactly what

7 happened now.

8 MS. CHANA:

9 Q. So that's early 1992 that you returned and now you were telling us

10 that you found the police there; is that correct?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. What were they doing?

13 A. When they stopped us, you mean?

14 Q. Yes. You are now in Donji Vakuf going home. You see police.

15 What are these policemen doing?

16 A. Well, let me tell you one thing, I had come thinking that I would

17 only be spending the weekend there, and when we were going back on Sunday,

18 we were stopped by the police, as we were leaving the town, and it

19 turned -- they turned the bus back.

20 Q. At which point were you turned back? Where was it that this bus

21 that were you travelling on --

22 A. It was at the exit from Donji Vakuf, on the road to Jajce and the

23 bus was going to Vienna.

24 Q. And who stopped the bus?

25 A. It was the Serb police.

Page 14830

1 Q. And what did they say to you?

2 A. They said we couldn't go on and that we had to go back.

3 Q. Did you ask the reason why?

4 A. No. They didn't. They only ordered the bus to turn around. The

5 driver of the bus talked to them and he had to make a U-turn.

6 Q. And what did you do when you were turned back?

7 A. Nothing. We went back to the bus station and we went our separate

8 ways, all went home.

9 Q. What was the atmosphere generally in Donji Vakuf at that time?

10 A. Every day people would retreat to their own streets, to their own

11 houses. They appeared in greater numbers in the streets at intersections.

12 Q. When you say people, can you describe who these people are,

13 please?

14 A. All the citizens of Croat and Muslim ethnicity retreated to their

15 houses and apartments, whereas the Serb population had left town for the

16 most part and some of them were moving around in streets.

17 Q. These Serbs which were moving around in streets, can you describe

18 to me whether they were in uniform or in civilian clothes and what they

19 were up to, what they were doing?

20 A. The police was dressed in blue, brown uniforms, whereas soldiers

21 were wearing both drab green olive grey uniforms and camouflage uniforms,

22 and all of them were armed.

23 Q. Were they doing anything else as they were patrolling those

24 streets?

25 A. At that time, that week when I had returned, they were not doing

Page 14831

1 anything in particular but people were still intimidated.

2 Q. Did the Muslims have any uniforms, were they patrolling the street

3 at the time as well?

4 A. No.

5 Q. Can you quickly tell me what was the proportion of the population

6 at that time in Donji Vakuf between the Serbs and the Bosniaks and the

7 Croats, if you know?

8 A. Donji Vakuf, with the surrounding villages, had around 24 or

9 25.000 people. 65 per cent Muslims, 33 per cent Serbs and 2 per cent

10 Croats.

11 Q. Did you know where the Serbs got their weapons from at that time?

12 A. No.

13 Q. Did you ever ask or find out why they were doing what they were

14 doing, why they were armed and patrolling the streets?

15 A. No. We didn't ask, and we couldn't understand what was going on.

16 Q. Now, can I take you to the 2nd of May, 1992? Do you remember that

17 day?

18 A. I do.

19 Q. Can you then tell us what happened?

20 A. It was on that day that the bridge was blown up. It was the 1st

21 or the 2nd of May. I believe it was the 2nd.

22 Q. Which bridge is this, sir?

23 A. It was the bridge across the Vrbas River, linking Donji Vakuf with

24 the road to Bugojno.

25 Q. Can you tell me whether you saw this bridge being blown up?

Page 14832

1 A. Well, I passed through a few minutes prior to that, ten minutes or

2 five minutes, I'm not exactly sure, I passed over the bridge and some 300

3 to 400 metres from the bridge, I saw thick smoke and I heard an explosion,

4 very loud one.

5 Q. Was this in the morning or the afternoon, do you remember?

6 A. It was in the afternoon.

7 Q. Who were you with at that time?

8 A. I was with my wife and children at the time.

9 Q. Were there many other people on that bridge on that particular day

10 at that time?

11 A. Well, since the situation was tense, there were few people moving

12 about, but there were several people.

13 Q. Could you sort of roughly guess estimate as to how many civilians

14 would be on that bridge?

15 A. Well, afterwards, after about an hour or two, as my mother, father

16 and sister live in the vicinity of the bridge, I passed through the area

17 and I saw three to four corpses.

18 Q. All right. So you said earlier that you heard a blast as you were

19 200 metres away from the bridge. Did you look behind at that time?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. What did you see?

22 A. I saw a thick black smoke and I saw that in downtown, roof tiles

23 had fallen off roofs, in the downtown area. I saw window panes broken.

24 Q. What did you do thereafter?

25 A. After about an hour or two, as my father, mother and sister lived

Page 14833

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Page 14834

1 in the vicinity, I wanted to see them and passing through the area, I saw

2 two to three bodies.

3 Q. Do you know who they were? Or did you subsequently find out who

4 they were?

5 A. We found that out after about an hour or two, I'm not sure exactly

6 how long. There was an old barber there whom all of us knew because it

7 was a small town. Then there was a waiter and a child.

8 Q. Did you visit your mother on that day?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Did anything happen to your mother?

11 A. Since she was some 100 to 150 metres away, she was sitting, and a

12 large wardrobe fell on her, on her head.

13 Q. This wardrobe that fell on her head, was it as a result of the

14 explosion?

15 A. Yes, yes. Because the windows and the doors were all shook by the

16 detonation. The windows were broken.

17 Q. So what happened after this explosion? What was the atmosphere in

18 Donji Vakuf?

19 A. The entire downtown area was destroyed.

20 Q. In what way was it destroyed, sir?

21 A. Roof tiles had fallen off roofs. The windows of the shops were

22 broken. The house that was by the bridge where there was a coffee bar

23 completely disappeared.

24 Q. What about the people of Donji Vakuf? What were they doing?

25 A. People in Donji Vakuf withdrew, went back to their homes and

Page 14835

1 apartments. They didn't know what was going on.

2 Q. And then, what did they do next?

3 A. Well, nothing. People stayed in their houses. They ventured out

4 very little.

5 Q. Did they all remain in Donji Vakuf or did they start leaving the

6 town?

7 A. When the bridge was blown up, from that day on, people started

8 leaving the town in waves.

9 Q. And by "people," what ethnic origins were they who were leaving in

10 waves?

11 A. Muslims and Croats.

12 Q. Did the Muslims at that point arm themselves?

13 A. No.

14 Q. Do you know anyone who actually went and got a weapon to protect

15 themselves?

16 A. I do.

17 Q. Can you tell us who, please?

18 A. Well, for example, I had a relative who had a weapon, and he dug

19 it into the soil and left town. He was a butcher. He had a permit to

20 carry a pistol. He also bought an automatic rifle and when people started

21 leaving town, he buried it into sand and went to Bugojno.

22 Q. Could you tell the Court his name, please?

23 A. Esad Saleta.

24 Q. So to your knowledge, there were -- the Muslims were not arming

25 themselves at this time?

Page 14836

1 A. They were not.

2 Q. Was there -- did you have a neighbour by the name of Celic Halil?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Could you tell us about him, please? What was he doing at this

5 time?

6 A. At that time, when the Serb police and troops were moving in the

7 area, he used to point out in which houses there were Muslims who had

8 remained there, and he went with them from one street to the next one.

9 Q. So now, how many Muslims remained in the town after this mass

10 exodus, as it were, to your knowledge?

11 A. Well, after the bridge, people started leaving in waves but

12 approximately at least half of the Muslim and Croatian population

13 remained.

14 Q. Can you suggest some figures to this Court, sir?

15 A. Well, I couldn't give you figures, but as far as I know,

16 definitely one half remained.

17 Q. What was your own reason for remaining in the municipality?

18 A. Well, I personally wasn't aware of the gravity of the situation.

19 It didn't occur to me that things could happen, the things that later came

20 to pass.

21 Q. Can I now take to you 16th June, 1992, sir? Do you remember that

22 date?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Can you tell this Court, please, what happened on that date?

25 A. That was the day of our holiday, Kurban Bajram. They came to my

Page 14837

1 house, together with Halil Celic. My sister came out. They were looking

2 for me. And they said to her, should I fail to report to them, that they

3 would take my entire family to Manjaca.

4 Q. Now, you said that Halil Celic came. How do you know this?

5 A. My sister saw him, and I saw him later on, when I started out.

6 Q. Was any reason given at the time as to why they needed to see

7 you?

8 A. No, no. They simply said I should report to SUP, since I live in

9 the centre of the town that was some 300 to 400 metres away, or rather I

10 should have said MUP.

11 Q. Did you report to MUP?

12 A. Yes. I had to.

13 Q. Were you then arrested or you reported to MUP yourself?

14 A. Since in their car they had some other people whom I didn't know,

15 they told me to report to MUP and should I not do that, they would take my

16 entire family to Manjaca. That's what they said.

17 Q. Do you know any other persons they arrested on that particular

18 date?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Could you tell us their names, please?

21 A. Abdulah Began, Esad Becar, Fahrudin Plivcic, Nasko Doslic.

22 Q. Did you -- you said then you reported to MUP. And what did you

23 tell your family before you went?

24 A. I said to my father, "Try to get the remaining ones out of here,

25 if you can. I'm leaving."

Page 14838

1 Q. And as you walked to the MUP, what did -- were the streets crowded

2 or deserted or what did you find?

3 A. The streets were empty. Muslim houses had been broken into.

4 Items were carried out of those houses. There were things strewn in the

5 streets.

6 Q. Who were these people who were carrying out these items?

7 A. All of those people were of Serb ethnicity.

8 Q. Were they civilians, were they soldiers, and how did you know

9 which one they were?

10 A. Since that was a small town, almost all of us knew each other.

11 Those were Serb policemen, troops, women, children, civilians, all of Serb

12 ethnicity.

13 Q. How do you know -- what uniforms were these Serbian soldiers

14 wearing?

15 A. The police uniforms were blue and brown. Military uniforms were

16 camouflage uniforms and the former JNA uniforms.

17 Q. So what happened when you went to MUP then?

18 A. Ten metres before the MUP building, two guys came out with

19 automatic rifles. One grabbed me by one arm, the other took my other arm,

20 and they took me into the MUP building.

21 Q. Did they take your belongings at that time?

22 A. Well, when we got in, they took everything we had on us.

23 Q. Were there other people there?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Who were they and what ethnic origins were they?

Page 14839

1 A. In the hallway, I saw about a dozen people. Those were Muslims.

2 Among them I recognised Mustafa Ceric, and some others.

3 Q. So what happened to you when you were inside? What happened next?

4 A. Could you repeat the question, please?

5 Q. Now that you're in MUP and you've been frisked, what happens next

6 to you?

7 A. Well, we stood there in the hallway for some three to four hours.

8 Q. What happened after that?

9 A. Then after that, they opened up the warehouse of the Territorial

10 Defence, which was in the vicinity of MUP. They took us there, opened the

11 door and as they opened the door, we saw that there were some other people

12 there and they locked us in.

13 MS. CHANA: I will at this stage, Your Honour, show him some

14 photographs and then if he can recognise -- sorry, Your Honour.

15 Photographs from P1706 -- sorry, Your Honour can I come again? P1760.6 to

16 .21. If he can be handed all these photographs by the usher, then he can

17 identify them as he goes along.

18 Q. Mr. Doslic, the usher is bringing you some photographs, if you

19 could please look at them.

20 MS. CHANA: If you hand the photographs to --

21 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] This is the other camp called

22 Vrbaspromet.

23 MS. CHANA:

24 Q. If you can look through the photographs, sir, and when you

25 identify the warehouse, then you can put it on the ELMO.

Page 14840

1 MS. CHANA: Usher if you could please assist. If you could let

2 him have the photographs, he can look.

3 Q. If you look through these photographs sir and when you do come to

4 that, just look through?

5 JUDGE AGIUS: [Microphone not activated] For the time being he's

6 just going to have a look at them, he's going to give an information on

7 each and every one, we need to specify what it is.

8 MS. CHANA: Yes, no, if he can now put that picture on the ELMO,

9 please?

10 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. For the record, we are showing you now Exhibit

11 P1760.15.

12 MS. CHANA:

13 Q. Yes, sir. What do you see in that picture?

14 A. This is the warehouse, the warehouse above the MUP building where

15 they locked us in.

16 Q. How big was this warehouse?

17 A. Well, 25 to 30 metres approximately. I'm not sure.

18 Q. Was there anything else in this warehouse?

19 A. This used to be the TO warehouse. The first door behind the first

20 door is where they kept us, and behind the second door, there was a

21 division made of metal, and they kept military equipment there, blankets,

22 things like that. We were not allowed there.

23 Q. Can you look at photograph P1760.11, please?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. What do you see in that photograph?

Page 14841

1 A. This was the other warehouse belonging to Vrbaspromet. We were

2 kept there too.

3 Q. I'll come to them. Sorry. Was there anything in this warehouse?

4 What was inside it except the people?

5 A. No. It was empty.

6 Q. And did you tell us how many people there were in this warehouse

7 when you were incarcerated in it?

8 A. In the first one or in the second one?

9 Q. The first one.

10 A. Well, there were about 95 of us, 97. I couldn't tell you but

11 around that number.

12 Q. How long were you kept in this particular warehouse?

13 A. In the first one?

14 Q. Yes. I'm talking about the first one?

15 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, the TO warehouse.

16 MS. CHANA:

17 Q. The TO warehouse.

18 A. Well, I couldn't tell you the exact date, because I don't

19 remember, but perhaps some 20 days, if not more, and then after that, we

20 were transferred to this one.

21 Q. We'll come to that in a minute so if you can go back to the first

22 warehouse, can you tell us the conditions that you were kept in?

23 A. Well, there was a warehouse constructed out of steel frame and the

24 floor was made out of concrete. We had to lie along one wall or the other

25 wall in the warehouse. The middle area had to be vacant.

Page 14842

1 Q. Were you given food?

2 A. Very little.

3 Q. Were you allowed to take baths?

4 A. There was no water there.

5 Q. What about toilet facilities?

6 A. We had a bucket about this big.

7 Q. If you look at Exhibit P1760.15, please, if that can be put on the

8 ELMO? .15, yes. Is that the warehouse from the outside?

9 A. This is the TO warehouse.

10 Q. Yes, which we are now talking about. We just want to be quite

11 sure.

12 A. That was where we were imprisoned the first time.

13 Q. Were you ever beaten in this warehouse?

14 A. No.

15 Q. Did you see others beaten in this warehouse?

16 A. Yes, very often, too.

17 Q. Who would beat them?

18 A. Serb police.

19 Q. How would they beat them? In the warehouse or outside the

20 warehouse?

21 A. Well, first they would call out the person to come out. Then they

22 would close the door and then some three to four of them would come, beat

23 the person up, and then bring him back.

24 Q. Did they always beat people outside the warehouse?

25 A. No. Some people were scared so much that they wouldn't come out,

Page 14843

1 thinking they wouldn't touch them if they were there, and then they would

2 beat the person in front of all of us.

3 Q. Could you tell us any one that you particularly remember who got

4 beaten?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Who was that?

7 A. Well, they would beat somebody called Pajic, who was a forester

8 very often. They would most frequently take him down to the garage. They

9 also beat Mustafa Ceric. There was a teacher there who long time before

10 that gave a failing grade to a Serb student, and the teacher now had to

11 wait for him every day in order to kiss his shoes and then the Serb man

12 would beat him, hit him, do all kinds of things to him.

13 Q. Was there any resistance whatsoever from the Muslim detainees when

14 they were beaten? Were they in a position to resist?

15 A. No, no.

16 Q. What would happen to the injured people after they had been

17 beaten? Were they provided with medical care and attention?

18 A. No.

19 Q. Can you give us some names of Serb soldiers who you said used to

20 beat these prisoners?

21 A. Well, there was Nenad Svemir, Jordan Ilic, Sasa Krivosija, a

22 person named Balaban, then Stojan Subasic. They were the most ferocious

23 ones.

24 Q. And you know these people how? How do you know who they were?

25 A. Well, for instance, Stojan Subasic used to work with me. The

Page 14844

1 others that I named are people I know because I know everyone in this

2 small town. Everybody knows everybody.

3 Q. So you knew them before and you recognised them?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Can you very briefly describe the state of the injuries that you

6 would find on these prisoners after they'd been beaten up, please?

7 A. Well, for instance, the nephew of my wife, Safet Omerovic, he was

8 80 years old. His back was so badly beaten that he couldn't even walk.

9 Other people were also badly injured. Some more, some less.

10 Q. Do you know why they would pick out certain people to be beaten

11 and not others?

12 A. I really don't know whether it is silver lining or what, luck, in

13 a general misfortune.

14 Q. Do you know anyone who died as a result of these beatings in that

15 particular warehouse?

16 A. In this warehouse? No. But in the other one, yes.

17 Q. Did you ever overhear a conversation while in this first

18 warehouse, between two Serb soldiers about certain people being killed?

19 A. Could you please repeat the question?

20 Q. Did you ever overhear a conversation between some Serb guards over

21 some people who had been killed?

22 A. Yes. We overheard them talking amongst themselves.

23 Q. What did they say?

24 A. Well, they were saying that across the road from this warehouse,

25 there is a small settlement, that's where they brought out Suljo Softic,

Page 14845

1 a 70 year old man. They killed him. Also next to his house, they killed

2 Haka Omeragic, and three houses down, there lived a barber, an old barber,

3 Jusuf. They brought him outside the MUP building, and I must say that MUP

4 and the warehouse are ten metres apart, and through this window, we could

5 see through a small hole, when they brought Jusuf. They brought him

6 outside the MUP building.

7 Q. What happened to Jusuf? Did you see what happened to him?

8 A. We could see through that window when it happened. This Haka

9 Omeragic is Jusuf's brother. When he saw Jusuf being killed, he had been

10 brought outside the MUP and he cursed their Chetnik mother, and the Serbs

11 were 20 or 30 in that group. All of them came down very hard on him.

12 Q. Did you recognise some of the Serb soldiers with this group of 15

13 to 20? Can you give us some names that you recognised?

14 A. Yes, I can. For example, Nenad Svemir, Vojo Ilic, Jordan Ilic.

15 There were others too.

16 Q. Were they all in Serbian uniforms?

17 A. Yes, yes.

18 Q. Did he die then, Jusuf Omeragic?

19 A. Yes, he did.

20 Q. Do you know what the camp commander was where you were detained in

21 this warehouse, the commander of that particular camp?

22 A. Miodrag or Milorad Djurkic. Any way, I know the man.

23 Q. Why did you think he was the guard, the camp guard, the camp

24 commander, rather, sorry?

25 A. Well, when we had been released from the previous camp to do our

Page 14846

1 work obligation, we saw on the papers we received that he was the manager

2 or commander of that prison, whatever you want to call him.

3 Q. Did you see him yourself at the time you were there, this

4 commander Djurkic?

5 A. In that other camp, he had an office in Vrbaspromet.

6 Q. All right. Now, what -- you said you were detained there about 20

7 days or so; is that correct, in this TO warehouse?

8 A. Well --

9 Q. That would bring you to about early July, 1992; is that correct?

10 A. Yes, yes. It was sometime around the 20th or the 23rd.

11 Q. What happened next to you? Where were you taken next?

12 A. After that, there came a freight truck covered by a tarpaulin.

13 This first door opened. Three or four policemen came in and told us,

14 "When we call somebody's name out, they should step out." And they

15 started calling out names, and they tied people's hands and blindfolded

16 them and put them on to this truck. When they had loaded everyone in,

17 they told them that they were going to Manjaca.

18 Q. And yourself? Were you one of them?

19 A. No. Those of us who remained were picked up the next day by a

20 small TAM truck without a tarpaulin, an open truck, and we were taken in

21 three or four groups to a warehouse of Vrbaspromet company.

22 Q. And how were you taken there? How many of you, sorry, were there

23 in this truck that went to this Vrbaspromet warehouse?

24 A. It was a small truck and we were packed in, 10, 15 or 20 at a

25 time, and we had to lie down. We were forbidden to look either way. Up

Page 14847

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Page 14848

1 there, next to the truck cab, a Serb policeman was standing with an

2 automatic rifle.

3 Q. Can you please look at Exhibit P1760.5, if that could be placed on

4 the ELMO, please? Thank you. Is this picture -- do you recognise this?

5 Is this where you were taken?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Can we go to the next one, .6, please? Do you recognise that?

8 A. Yes, I do.

9 Q. Can we see .7, please?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. .8, please?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. And .11, please, usher, that's the inside, .11, that's three

14 photographs down. Now, is this the inside of that particular warehouse?

15 A. It is, only then it was empty.

16 Q. It was empty? There was nothing in it?

17 A. Right. There was nothing.

18 Q. How big a space was this, to your estimation, sir?

19 A. I think it was about 30 metres in length by 20, something like

20 that.

21 Q. And when you got there, were there people already there?

22 A. Yes, there were.

23 Q. How many were they?

24 A. As we were filing in, I was in the last group, there might have

25 been 30 or 40.

Page 14849

1 Q. Altogether, how many people were in this particular warehouse?

2 A. We were about 90, 95, approximately.

3 Q. Could you now describe to the Court, please, the conditions in

4 this warehouse, the conditions under which you lived?

5 A. The warehouse was empty at the time. The floor was concrete, and

6 there were only wooden pallets to sit on and lie on. We had no water.

7 Q. What about food? What kind of food were you given?

8 A. We got, for instance, five -- 400 to 500 gram loaf per 50 men,

9 sometimes once a day, sometimes once in three days.

10 Q. And who was this warehouse guarded by?

11 A. They changed all the time.

12 Q. Yes, the personalities changed but were they all from certain

13 police force?

14 A. Yes, yes.

15 Q. Which was?

16 A. It was the Serb police.

17 Q. Do you remember the names of any of these guards?

18 A. I knew 95 per cent of them. For some of them I knew the first

19 name or the last name. I told you already it was a small place. We all

20 knew each other. For instance, there was Lazo Boroja.

21 Q. And the commander of this particular warehouse was?

22 A. The commander?

23 Q. Do you remember his name?

24 A. You mean of the prison?

25 Q. Yes, this --

Page 14850

1 A. Djurkic.

2 Q. All right. Did you notice the condition of the people when you

3 entered this warehouse? What was the general condition of the other

4 detainees there?

5 A. Their condition was worse because they had been brought earlier.

6 Q. When you say "worse" sir, could you please describe to us what

7 they looked like? Did they have injuries? Were they dirty? What was the

8 general demeanour of these people?

9 A. Well, for instance, they had lost weight. Some of them were

10 beaten up. They were generally filthy and disheveled. There were no

11 conditions for personal hygiene.

12 Q. Was there one particular person that you saw there which was

13 particularly badly wounded?

14 A. Yes. It was Ljuban Mrsic, an older man, a shepherd. He was taken

15 in before we were, while he would still talk he told us they had taken his

16 sheep away and brought him there. He was so badly beaten up that his

17 spine and this part here was broken, and he had maggots on his back.

18 Worms were crawling on him.

19 Q. And these would be from his wounds; is that correct, sir?

20 A. Yes, correct.

21 Q. Was his condition apparent to the -- his captors?

22 A. Yes. Anyone who came in had to feel the stench.

23 Q. Did they provide you with any medical aid or assistance or any of

24 these people in that particular room?

25 A. No, no.

Page 14851

1 Q. What happened to Ljuban Mrsic then?

2 A. Well, he suffered for about 15 days, and then one day, in the

3 small hours, he died.

4 Q. Do you know any other persons who died in this particular

5 warehouse?

6 A. Yes. There was also an older man by the name of Mehdic.

7 Q. Did you ever see two of your neighbours arrive at this camp?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Could you tell us about them and who they were and what happened,

10 please?

11 A. It was a neighbour of mine, Mahmut Omeragic and another neighbour

12 Midhat Softic, also known as Mica.

13 Q. Yes. What happened to them?

14 A. Well, they were brought in. Mica was in a very bad state, and

15 Mahmut wasn't. They spent the night there and the next day, sometime in

16 the afternoon, a Serb soldier came for them, a man named Tanasic,

17 nicknamed Tana. He had a green pickup truck. He tied their hands and

18 blindfolded them and told them that they were going to be exchanged.

19 Nobody has heard of them since.

20 Q. Would this be around the 22nd of July, sir?

21 A. Around that time. I can't remember the exact date.

22 Q. Were there any minors in this camp, this - I'm sorry I do not

23 pronounce it properly - Vrbaspromet camp? Were there any minors there?

24 A. Yes. There were two minors.

25 Q. What were their ages, if you know?

Page 14852

1 A. I'm afraid to get it wrong but they could have been 13, 14,

2 certainly not more than 15.

3 Q. Of all the soldiers which would come to this camp, who amongst

4 them you thought were the most brutal that you recognised?

5 A. The most brutal man, I told you already, both in the first and the

6 second camp, the most brutal men were those I had already enumerated. If

7 you want me, I can tell you their names again.

8 Q. If you would be so kind to do so.

9 A. All those who were in the first camp, who I named as the most

10 brutal were also in the second camp.

11 Q. So you saw them at both camps? That's the important point I want

12 the Court to understand.

13 A. Yes, that's true.

14 Q. And amongst them was Svemir and Ilic, right?

15 A. Correct, yes. They are two separate men, Svemir is one man,

16 Jordan Ilic is the second man. There is the third man Krivosija, there

17 was also Vojo Ilic, then Balaban.

18 Q. Thank you very much for that. Now, can we take you to 23rd of

19 July, 1992? Do you remember that date?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Yes. Tell us what happened then on that particular date?

22 A. Mustafa Ceric, Muharem Teskeregic and I were called into the

23 office of Miodrag Djurkic, and he told us that he was releasing us to do

24 our work obligation. Since the town was abandoned, my family, my wife and

25 children had remained, whereas many other people had left, and the wives

Page 14853

1 of Mustafa Ceric and Muharem also remained at the time when we were

2 released to do the work obligation. Several days later, they also

3 released Nasko Doslic, Selim Hamdija. At any rate, there were seven or

4 eight of us who were released to do our work obligation.

5 Q. And when you said your work obligation, what exactly do you mean

6 by that?

7 A. That implied that you had to go to work somewhere. If you allow

8 me, I will quote one example.

9 Q. Sure.

10 A. I may?

11 Q. Yes.

12 A. For instance, I was forced to slaughter cows and cattle for them

13 in the slaughterhouse that belonged to a relative of mine. Mustafa Ceric,

14 a man who used to be a director of a company, was forced to sweep the

15 road, carry out garbage, things like that.

16 Q. Were you paid for this work?

17 A. No, we were not.

18 Q. And what was your assignment, your work assignment?

19 A. My work assignments implied that I was taken to work by Boroja,

20 Lazo Boroja, and I was brought back after working for five or six hours.

21 Q. And you said you worked for Boroja. Who was he?

22 A. No. It was Novo Boroja. He was the man who took me out and

23 brought me back. Novo Boroja was a Serb.

24 Q. Where was the slaughterhouse that you worked for six hours a day?

25 A. It was a slaughterhouse along the road to Jajce, about three

Page 14854

1 kilometres away from my house.

2 Q. And how long did you continue this work detail of yours?

3 A. Until the 23rd of December.

4 Q. And what happened on the 23rd of December?

5 A. On the 23rd of December, this man came. I think it was Novo

6 Boroja, and he said that it was announced over the radio that 13 of us

7 Muslims, including two of my young daughters, were going to be exchanged.

8 Q. What did this mean, that you were going to be exchanged?

9 A. Well, that meant that 13 of us were later exchanged for 39 Serbs.

10 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Madam Chana, I think we need to stop here for

11 the break.

12 MS. CHANA: Yes, Your Honour, thank you.

13 JUDGE AGIUS: We will have a 25-minute break and we will resume

14 immediately after. Thank you.

15 --- Recess taken at 10.30 a.m.

16 --- On resuming at 11.00 a.m.

17 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, Madam Chana.

18 MS. CHANA: [Microphone not activated] Thank you, Your Honour.

19 Q. Now, to continue, Mr. Doslic before the break, you were telling

20 us --

21 JUDGE AGIUS: Microphone.

22 MS. CHANA: Sorry.

23 Q. Yes, before the break, Mr. Doslic, you were telling this Court

24 that from 24th July, until your exchange on 25th -- 23rd of December, you

25 were on this work detail in the slaughterhouse; is that correct?

Page 14855

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Now, I would like you, Mr. Doslic, to tell this Court, during this

3 time, that is 24th July, to 23rd December, you remain in the town of Donji

4 Vakuf and some of the incidents which happened during those months. Can

5 you first tell this Court, please, what was the atmosphere in Donji Vakuf

6 at that time?

7 A. At that time, from the moment when we came to perform our work

8 obligation, there were perhaps only some 30 to 40 Muslim residents in the

9 entire town, including men, women and children. All of the Muslim houses

10 were torn apart. Items were being carried out from those houses, loaded

11 up on vehicles and so on. There were property items strewn in the

12 streets, backyards, everywhere, but all of the Muslim houses had been

13 broken into.

14 Q. And who were these people who were carrying off these looted

15 goods, sir?

16 A. They were Serb soldiers, policemen, Serb civilians, women,

17 children, all of them.

18 Q. Were you nearly stabbed once? Or nearly stabbed, yes, sorry.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Would you tell us about that, please?

21 A. Well, one day, we went to load up hay in a village. Novo Boroja

22 was with me. I was loading up the hay, as was he, and at one moment, I

23 turned around and I saw an elderly woman, a Serb lady, called Andja. She

24 had a sabre or a long knife, this big, and Novo managed to put himself

25 between the two of us. Then she said, "Are there any balijas around,

Page 14856

1 remaining? Fuck their mothers."

2 Q. Now, did you happen to go into your own house at this time?

3 A. After the work obligation, I had to go to my house, which had also

4 been broken into. Things were thrown around, some things had been carried

5 out, some hadn't. Novo Boroja used to come every morning to fetch me and

6 then in the evening he would bring me back home.

7 Q. Was your family still living in Donji Vakuf in your house?

8 A. All of my family members left Donji Vakuf when the others did.

9 Only my wife and two little daughters remained.

10 Q. What was life like for them during this period, Mr. Doslic?

11 A. It was no life at all. Children didn't dare go into the

12 backyard. They had to stay shut in the house.

13 Q. And how did they provide for their basic essentials?

14 A. Since we were living in the house, in our house, in which my

15 brother and my aunt had lived before leaving town, there were a lot of

16 food items there. Later on, I have to say that Novo Boroja helped us a

17 lot. He helped us a great deal.

18 Q. And did you ever see yourself these goods being loaded into

19 vehicles and being taken away from Donji Vakuf?

20 A. Yes. A military vehicle would come, a large one, with a

21 tarpaulin, and it would go door-to-door, house to house, and collect what

22 they liked. Later on, they would drive towards the slaughterhouse. There

23 was a Muslim weekend cottage there, and there was a large field there, and

24 some kind of a military base of theirs was located there. They warehoused

25 the goods that they liked in that location, and then if, later on,

Page 14857

1 whenever they needed to go to Banja Luka or elsewhere, perhaps to Serbia,

2 they would drive the goods there.

3 Q. And you saw that personally, did you, the driving away, I mean?

4 A. Yes. There was a large field there. On one side was the

5 slaughterhouse, and running in the middle of it was the main road to Jajce

6 and this is where they were. The field was crowded with goods. I would

7 also see them when they came into the street. They would go door-to-door.

8 Q. Thank you, Mr. Doslic. Now I'd like to take you to the summer of

9 1992. Do you know a mosque called Dudica Dzamija?

10 JUDGE AGIUS: You should team up with Ms. Korner in your

11 pronunciation, you are in competition.

12 MS. CHANA: Yes, I'm trying to learn the language, sir.

13 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, I know, it's called Dudica

14 Dzamija.

15 MS. CHANA:

16 Q. Thank you for that. Now what do you know about this mosque,

17 firstly, where was it located?

18 A. It was a mosque situated on the main road leading from Jajce to

19 Travnik, to Sarajevo. It was in town. It was built of wood. The

20 building and the minarets and the rest of it was built of solid

21 construction material.

22 Q. What happened to this mosque, do you know?

23 A. It was set on fire.

24 Q. Did you see the fire?

25 A. Yes.

Page 14858

1 Q. How did it happen that you saw this fire?

2 A. Well, it was a small town, and the part that was built of wood was

3 quite old and one could see the smoke very well, and whenever they came,

4 they would talk about it, and let me stress once again, Novo Boroja truly

5 helped me a lot, and he confirmed this to me as well, and I saw the smoke

6 myself.

7 Q. What is it that Novo Boroja confirmed to you, Witness?

8 A. Novo Boroja prompted by my question about the smoke, told me that

9 the mosque had been set on fire, and some two or three days later, I went

10 with Novo Boroja and passed through the area because I had built a new

11 house for myself in that part.

12 Q. So you saw the ruins of this mosque?

13 A. Yes, yes, yes. It was still smouldering.

14 Q. Could you tell this Court, please, if you know, who started this

15 fire?

16 A. No.

17 Q. Were you ever informed as to this fire and the cause of it?

18 A. Well, we learned that either Serb policemen or Serb soldiers had

19 set it on fire. It definitely wasn't the Muslims who did it.

20 Q. Now, Mr. Doslic, I will take you to August of 1992. Do you

21 remember that you also witnessed a bridge being blown up at this time?

22 A. Could you please repeat the question?

23 Q. Do you know -- sorry, I'll take that question back, Your Honours,

24 if I may, and ask him about --

25 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, Mr. Ackerman?

Page 14859

1 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, I'm informed that a line -- page 37,

2 line 17, where the transcript says "we learned," that what the witness

3 actually said was, "we thought that either Serb policemen or Serb soldiers

4 had set it on fire."

5 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes.

6 MR. ACKERMAN: It makes a difference.

7 JUDGE AGIUS: Of course it does.

8 Mr. Doslic, Mr. Doslic, you have heard what Mr. Ackerman has just

9 pointed out to us. What did you actually say earlier on? You were asked

10 the following question: Were you ever informed as to this fire, and the

11 cause of it? And our transcript says, "Well," according to you, "we

12 learned that either Serb policemen or Serb soldiers had set it on fire."

13 Did you say, "we learned" or "we thought" -- "we believed"?

14 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] We learned, we learned.

15 JUDGE AGIUS: All right, Mr. Ackerman.

16 MS. CHANA: Your Honour I think the witness also continued to say

17 it was not the Muslims --

18 JUDGE AGIUS: What's important at this point is whether they

19 learned or whether they thought or figured it out. And he's confirming

20 that he said that they learned.

21 MS. CHANA: I was just pointing out the transcript does not

22 reflect that additional sentence. But be that as it may, I'll continue.

23 Q. Do you know another mosque called Bas-Dzamija?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Where is that located, sir?

Page 14860

1 A. It is in the centre of the town, 300 metres from my house, 300 to

2 400.

3 Q. Yes. Do you know what happened to this particular mosque?

4 A. Well, one day, I don't remember exactly what time it was, but in

5 the morning hours, there was a very loud explosion so that once again the

6 downtown area was affected again, even though it had been ruined prior to

7 that. A similar explosion took place like the one that had taken place at

8 the bridge. Since I was working at the slaughterhouse, Novo and I would,

9 from time to time, come to the downtown area to deliver meat, and then I

10 saw that the mosque had been destroyed.

11 Q. And what did you see at the site of the destroyed mosque? What

12 was happening to the rubble?

13 A. They brought in bulldozers and trucks and loaded up remains on

14 them and threw them into the Vrbas River or some of it was thrown next to

15 the river and some of it into the river.

16 Q. And the ground where the mosque was, what was its condition at the

17 end of all of this?

18 A. At the end, they razed it nicely, and then they put sand there and

19 turned it into a parking lot.

20 Q. Can you still see remains of this mosque in the Vrbas River today,

21 if one was to look?

22 A. Yes, I could, and next to the river as well.

23 Q. Do you also know a mosque called Fadilova Dzamija? Once again, I

24 apologise for my pronunciation, Your Honours.

25 A. Fadilova's mosque. Yes, I know that's close to Dudica Dzamija.

Page 14861

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Page 14862

1 Dudica Dzamija and Fadilova's Dzamija are about 100 to 200 metres apart.

2 Q. What happened to this particular mosque?

3 A. The same. It had been set on fire and destroyed.

4 Q. Do you know when this particular mosque was destroyed?

5 A. Dudica mosque and Fadilova's mosque were destroyed in a matter of

6 two days.

7 Q. Did you also see the ruins of this particular mosque, yourself?

8 A. Yes. I've told you that these two mosques are close to each

9 other.

10 Q. Yes. I just wanted to confirm that you saw them yourself, the

11 ruins?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Thank you very much.

14 Now, on 22nd of December, 1992, do you remember that date?

15 A. The 22nd of December?

16 Q. Yes. The 22nd of December.

17 A. On the 22nd or 23rd was when we were exchanged. They told us to

18 get ready to take just our clothing with us, that we were not allowed to

19 take watches or gold with us and they told us we were going to be

20 exchanged.

21 Q. Yes. You've already indicated to this Court earlier in your

22 testimony that you were exchanged on the 23rd of December but on the 22nd

23 of December, how did you learn that you were to be exchanged?

24 A. Since we had no access to the media, to the radio, we were not

25 allowed to have radio stations in our house, Boro -- Novo Boroja told us

Page 14863

1 that there might be an exchange the following day but that he wasn't sure

2 about that and he told me that if I wished, I could go into the exchange.

3 Q. And who, if anyone, informed you of this exchange?

4 A. The following day, a short man, or rather a Serb neighbour of

5 ours, came, a boy who was 12 or 13 years old and he said that he had been

6 sent by Novo, who couldn't come himself, to inform us to get ready and to

7 go to the bus station at 11.00. He said that all 13 of us would come

8 there and that we were to be exchanged.

9 Q. And where, in fact were you exchanged?

10 A. We were exchanged halfway between Donji Vakuf and another place,

11 there was a farm there.

12 Q. And the name of the particular village? Do you remember that?

13 A. The name of the place is Kopcici.

14 Q. Right. Now, who else other than yourself and your family of

15 course was present during this exchange?

16 A. You mean the Muslims?

17 Q. The Muslims and the Serb, if any Serb officials.

18 A. Yes. There was Nikola Kisin there.

19 Q. Who was Nikola Kisin?

20 A. Nikola Kisin was my teacher, my neighbour.

21 Q. And he was an official as well?

22 A. He was president of the SDS in Donji Vakuf.

23 Q. How many Muslims were exchanged for how many Serbs, sir?

24 A. There were 13 of us Muslims, including my two girls, and we were

25 exchanged for 39 of them.

Page 14864

1 Q. Other than Nikola Kisin, the SDS president, which other Serbs were

2 present during this exchange? Other than the prisoners, of course.

3 A. There were three or four soldiers escorting him. There was

4 another man from the other part of town. We called him Slipko I don't

5 know his real name. And this other man, I know, but I don't know his

6 name. And on the side that greeted us, there was representative of the

7 HVO called Soldo, I don't know his last name.

8 Q. Where did you go after the exchange?

9 A. After the exchange I went towards Bugojno. When I came to

10 Bugojno, since my neighbours were there, I inquired about my parents, and

11 they told me that my parents were in Gornji Vakuf, so I headed there.

12 Q. Now, did you ever meet your fellow camp detainees at some point

13 in -- after you were released, after you were exchanged?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Can you tell us who you met and what information was passed to

16 you?

17 A. Immediately on the following day, there in the vicinity, I saw

18 Safet Omeragic, my wife's uncle, who had been imprisoned as well. Then I

19 saw some 30 per cent of those who had been imprisoned with me. I saw them

20 in the course of the following seven days.

21 Q. And what information did they give to you about fellow detainees

22 having been killed?

23 A. For example, Safet, my wife's uncle, told me that when they were

24 exchanged in Turbe, that just before the exchange, a Serb soldier came

25 and said that two of the youngest should be taken out. Among them -- the

Page 14865

1 two of them were called Saban and Spaho. When they got off the truck, the

2 Serb soldier kill them because allegedly his son had been killed and he

3 wanted to take revenge.

4 Q. Did you then remain in Bugojno until the end of the war?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And then did you join the BiH Army in January, 1993?

7 A. In April of 1993.

8 Q. Yes. Now, Mr. Doslic, I'm going to show you some documents with

9 the Court's permission and I would like you to just look at them. The

10 first document I would like to show you is 7.156.

11 JUDGE AGIUS: I think you've got it wrong, Madam Chana. 7.156

12 is -- yes, exactly, it refers to something else.

13 MS. CHANA: Sorry, Your Honour.

14 JUDGE AGIUS: That's the witness number.

15 MS. CHANA: That's right. The first document Your Honour is

16 P1703.

17 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, Mr. Ackerman?

18 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour this is not on the list that was given

19 me so I don't have it.

20 JUDGE AGIUS: I don't have it either. I have 1702 and 1705. But

21 1703 and 4 are not listed. However, let's see what it is first.

22 MR. ACKERMAN: I just want to be able to look at it.

23 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes me too exactly.

24 MS. CHANA: It's a very short document, Your Honour.

25 JUDGE AGIUS: Let's put it on the ELMO.

Page 14866

1 MS. CHANA:

2 Q. Yes, Witness, do you see this document?

3 A. Yes.

4 JUDGE AGIUS: Can we have the -- I see. All right. Let's have a

5 look at least at it. Put it on the ELMO in the English version. Yes,

6 please. All right.

7 MS. CHANA:

8 Q. It's dated 13th January, 1992, and it's a Serbian Democratic Party

9 of BH, Donji Vakuf, SDS municipal board; is that correct?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. Do you recognise the names from one to seven therein?

12 A. Yes.

13 THE INTERPRETER: Could you put the names there, please?

14 A. As I've told you, Nedeljko Ninkovic was also my teach ever as was

15 Nikola Kisin. I know Nikica Zagorac, Miodrag Jandric was a Judge and an

16 attorney. I know Zeljko Nenad as well. Ljubo Mekinjic used to work at

17 the municipality and I know Zoran Glisic as well.

18 Q. Was this the Nikola Kisin who was present at your exchange? Is

19 it the same name?

20 A. Yes, yes, Nikola Kisin was present during my exchange.

21 MS. CHANA: Yes, thank you, Your Honour. The next document, Your

22 Honour -- if you'll bear with me, Your Honour -- is Exhibit P1705, Your

23 Honour.

24 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes.

25 MS. CHANA:

Page 14867

1 Q. This is a decision of the Serbian Municipality of Donji Vakuf,

2 where it established the seat of the municipality in Donji Vakuf, and it

3 gives the area of the Serbian Municipality of Donji Vakuf shall comprise

4 of the following localities. Could you look at these, which would be A,

5 B, C, and tell this Court if that was -- that's an accurate reflection of

6 the communes and the settlements as you know them?

7 A. I know all these settlements but the first of May, Prvi Maj, is

8 only a local commune. The rest are purely Serb villages.

9 Q. The rest would be -- there was only one Muslim village, is that

10 what you're saying?

11 A. No there is not a single Muslim village here. Prvi Maj, is an

12 urban local commune where the population was mixed. The rest are villages

13 populated exclusively by Serbs.

14 Q. Yes, thank you. Can I show you the next document? Which would be

15 P1706. Which is again the assembly of the Serbian Municipality of Donji

16 Vakuf, which -- these are minutes, and on the second page, you will see

17 some names -- sorry.

18 Now, on the first page, we have persons elected to the working

19 Presidency and there are three names there. Have you got them, Ninkovic,

20 Glisic, and Vidovic? Do you know any of these people?

21 A. Yes, yes. I know them.

22 Q. Who are they?

23 A. I know Ninkovic, Glisic, Zeljko Vidovic, Milan Surutka.

24 Q. And over the page there are the names of the newly appointed

25 assemblymen and there are 13 names there. Could you tell us who these

Page 14868

1 people are and whether you know them?

2 A. All of these are names of Serbs. Out of these I know Nedeljko

3 Ninkovic, Nikola Kisin, Ilija Boroja, Ranko Boroja, Nikola Zagorac, Milan

4 Surutka, Ratko Kisin, Nedeljko Jovetic, Zeljko Nenad, Vojko Ninkovic --

5 Gojko Ninkovic, sorry, Luka Budisa, who used to work with me, Zdravko

6 Kisin.

7 Q. Basically they are all --

8 A. I know the others too.

9 Q. They were all local Serbs from --

10 A. By sight. All of these are residents of Serb ethnicity.

11 Q. Again, P1707, exhibit, Your Honours, show some more names. Were

12 they members of the Autonomous Region of Krajina and the deputies who

13 represent this municipality are seven names there, and the usher is

14 bringing you the document. Again, Witness, these are seven Serbs and

15 people who you know?

16 A. All of these, again, are people from Donji Vakuf and I know them

17 except for this number 4, Miodrag, there is no last name so I don't know

18 who that is.

19 Q. Thank you, Witness. Can I now show you document -- Exhibit P1713,

20 Your Honours? This particular document is a military document of the 30th

21 Partisan Division command and they are minutes of meeting with a

22 representative of the municipality of Donji Vakuf and Bugojno. I'm going

23 to refer you to a certain paragraph in the middle, Mr. Doslic, and I'll

24 read it out. If you can follow it in your B/C/S, please? Where it is

25 reported in the minutes where it says, "I wish to stress once again that

Page 14869

1 the tasks of the JNA Yugoslav army in this region, which is the" -- are

2 you with me, Mr. Doslic? Have you got that part? It's in the middle of

3 the page. Gentlemen and comrades, and then the next.

4 A. Yes, I found it.

5 Q. Yes, so it says, "I wish to stress once again the tasks of the JNA

6 Yugoslav People's Army in this region or more precisely the tasks of the

7 unit under my command. Their task is to ensure peace, prevent

8 interethnic clashes put all military formations under our command and

9 prevent the activities of all paramilitary formations. We all know that

10 the situation in Bosnia and Herzegovina is like and that is one more

11 reason why we are here. The situation at Kupres was intolerable, there

12 were several armies and paramilitary formations there and they all sowed

13 fear and terror." From your own observations on the ground, Mr. Doslic,

14 would you say that that was an accurate reflection of what was in fact

15 happening?

16 A. I would kindly ask you to tell me which date we are talking about.

17 Q. This is the -- the document is dated 14th April, 1992.

18 Mr. Doslic, if I can clarify my question and make it easier for you,

19 perhaps, would you agree that the military was there to prevent

20 interethnic clashes, as is reflected in this document?

21 A. No, no. That's not true.

22 Q. Were there any interethnic clashes, to your own -- from our own

23 observations of being there at that time?

24 A. Well, at the time we are talking about, in Kupres, yes.

25 Q. We are talking about Gornji Vakuf, when they say that there were

Page 14870

1 paramilitary formations and the army was there to quell Muslim rebellion

2 against the Serbs.

3 A. No, no, that's not true.

4 Q. Over the page, the President of the Donji Vakuf says, fifth line

5 from that, that we have not had a single case of looting. Was that

6 correct?

7 A. Are you talking now about Donji Vakuf?

8 Q. Yes, I'm always talking about Donji Vakuf, unless I tell you

9 otherwise.

10 A. Is this the month of April?

11 Q. Yes.

12 A. Yes. At that time, there were, but very little, because the

13 Muslim population was still in Donji Vakuf.

14 Q. Yes. I'd like to show you Exhibit P1714. Which is again the

15 decision on the appointment and again we have eight names. Would you

16 confirm that you know these people, please? These are members of the

17 council of national defence of the Serbian Municipality of Donji Vakuf.

18 JUDGE AGIUS: Is it the right document?

19 MS. CHANA: No, it isn't, Your Honour, it's 1714. Sorry, usher.

20 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, Mr. Ackerman?

21 MR. ACKERMAN: This one is not on my list either, Your Honour.

22 So again that's another one that I don't have and haven't looked at.

23 MS. CHANA: I'm very sorry for this, Your Honours. I thought I

24 had passed this list but perhaps I had not taken such care with the

25 numbers but again it's just a document with eight names, Your Honour.

Page 14871

1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes. I know these names.

2 MS. CHANA:

3 Q. And they are all Serbs?

4 A. Yes, all of them are Serbs.

5 Q. Moving right along, Mr. Doslic, Exhibit P628, usher. It's again a

6 military document of the 5th Corps command to the 2nd Military District

7 command, and it's a regular combat report. Item number 3, on that

8 document, where it alludes to the destruction of the bridge over the Vrbas

9 River in Donji Vakuf and the deaths of several people have exceptionally

10 disturbed the population of this town. Individual provocations are still

11 occurring, especially in the areas of mixed nationality. This confirms

12 the destruction of the bridge, does it not, Mr. Doslic?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. And would you say that individual provocations were occurring at

15 that time in the Donji Vakuf, as it -- the document states?

16 A. No, no.

17 Q. Why do you say that?

18 A. I cannot -- because when the bridge was blown up, all the Muslim

19 people retreated to their homes, and in the streets and around town,

20 strong police and military formations began to move about.

21 Q. So there were no individual provocations? I will now take you to

22 document P898, Your Honours. I'll take you to the item number 1. Have

23 you -- oh, sorry. I'll describe the document while the usher is putting

24 it on the ELMO, Your Honour. It's a command, military document, command

25 of the 30th Partisan division. It's a regular combat report. Where it

Page 14872

1 confirms, does it not, at one, information about the enemy, forces of the

2 blue and reserve police are being mobilised at Bugojno and Donji Vakuf.

3 That is your knowledge of the forces on the ground, is it not, forces, the

4 reserve police were present in Donji Vakuf? Would you confirm that?

5 A. Well, they mobilised only the Serb men, and armed them.

6 Q. And in number 3, of that document, if the usher can move it up,

7 please, situation in the territory, Mr. Doslic, where it says, "Once again

8 it confirms following the destruction of the bridge in Donji Vakuf, most

9 of the town's inhabitants of Muslim nationality and many of Serbian

10 nationality left and now there is practically nobody in charge of the

11 town.

12 Would that be an accurate reflection from your own observations?

13 A. No.

14 Q. Would you say that it was true that nobody was in charge of the

15 town?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Then he goes on to say, representatives of the Serbian

18 municipality did not establish any authority so that neither the

19 municipality nor the post office, nor the bank, nor any other institutions

20 are functioning.

21 A. They did establish a government, but only they were represented in

22 that government. There was not a single Muslim or Croat occupying a

23 position of any importance.

24 Q. So would you call that that they were then in control of Donji

25 Vakuf?

Page 14873

1 A. That's precisely what I want to say.

2 Q. Thank you, Mr. Doslic. I will now take to you Exhibit P1716, Your

3 Honours, which again is a military document from the 5th Corps command to

4 the 2nd Military District command. It's again a regular combat report.

5 If you go to item 3 on the first page, Mr. Doslic, second line on the

6 third, situation in the area. "There have been no armed clashes but acts

7 of sabotage against private property continue causing fear, insecurity and

8 alarm among civilians." Mr. Doslic, who was conducting these acts of

9 sabotage?

10 A. The Serbs were responsible for all of these sabotage actions

11 because at this time we are talking about, since the bridge was blown up,

12 they started establishing their own control, and arrests began all over

13 the town and the villages, and people were taken into custody and

14 imprisoned.

15 Q. So then it would be fair to say, fear, insecurity and alarm

16 amongst the civilians was being caused by the Serbs?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Then he goes to say that the ill feeling and I'll read here. "The

19 capture of three Serbs in Donji Vakuf in the Turbe area has caused ill

20 feeling amongst the Serbs, particularly among the Serbian organs of

21 government which have adopted a cynical attitude towards the Muslim

22 population, which might have serious consequences." What comment would

23 you have on that particular statement in this document?

24 A. No. By no means. And I doubt that it is true.

25 JUDGE AGIUS: What is? What is not true? Because there are two

Page 14874

1 statements in this sentence. Let's take them separately. Mr. Doslic,

2 please follow me. The first part of the statement says as follows: "The

3 capture of three Serbs in Donji Vakuf, in the Turbe area has caused ill

4 feeling amongst the Serbs, particularly amongst the Serbian organs of

5 government." Do you agree with that? Was there -- do you recall the

6 capture of three Serbs in Donji Vakuf, around about this time, which

7 caused ill feeling amongst the Serbs, particularly the Serbian organs of

8 government? Do you know what this part of the statement is talking

9 about?

10 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, I understood what you said, but

11 this is not true.

12 JUDGE AGIUS: And then the statement continues to say that because

13 of this, "The Serbian organs of government have adopted a cynical attitude

14 towards the Muslim population, which might have serious consequences."

15 Will you agree that there was at some point in time a situation whereby --

16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, yes.

17 JUDGE AGIUS: Why, according to you, did the Serbian organs of

18 government adopt a cynical attitude towards the Muslim population if it

19 were not due to the capture of the three Serbs? If they did adopt a

20 cynical attitude towards the Muslim population, why did they do so? Did

21 they have a particular reason for doing so?

22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, we all know that they had a

23 great idea of creating this Greater Serbia, and that failed.

24 MS. CHANA: Thank you Your Honour, for that.

25 Q. And then it goes on to say, the last sentence on that page, "The

Page 14875

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and

13 English transcripts.

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

Page 14876

1 bridge in Donji Vakuf has been repaired." Was that true, from your own

2 observation of the bridge?

3 A. Yes. It was repaired by military engineering units of the Serb

4 forces so that their column of vehicles, tanks and the rest, could cross.

5 Q. Thank you. I'd like to show you now document P375, Your Honours.

6 It's again a military document from the 5th Corps command to the command

7 of the 2nd Military District, and it's a regular combat report. I shall

8 pause here for the usher to find it.

9 JUDGE AGIUS: The usher has surely done her training for the day.

10 MS. CHANA: Yes, I apologise to the usher, Your Honour, if I'm

11 putting her out.

12 Q. If you look at number 3, paragraph, situation on the ground,

13 where it says there has been no armed conflicts in this territory, are you

14 with me, Witness? Mr. Doslic are you following me? Yeah.

15 A. Yes, do I follow you. I told you already, since the bridge was

16 blown up in Donji Vakuf, arrests began and people were taken away. The

17 situation was bad. People locked themselves in their homes, and left the

18 town in waves.

19 Q. So therefore you would agree that the situation was extremely

20 tense, as this document reflects, and since the deadline for handing over

21 illegally owned weapons has expired and the Banja Luka MUP Ministry of

22 Interior, organs are making appropriate preparation to take away the

23 weapons, people fear possible interethnic conflicts. Now, Mr. Doslic, it

24 talks about weapons and a deadline for handing over these weapons. Can

25 you comment on that? Was there such a deadline? And did indeed Muslims

Page 14877

1 have weapons that they handed over?

2 A. In Donji Vakuf, very few Muslims had weapons, and those who did

3 were mainly huntsmen and they had turned over their weapons, but their

4 main purpose was to have an excuse to come into somebody's home, look

5 purportedly for weapons, and then take away whatever took their fancy.

6 Q. And was there anything for the Serbs to fear interethnic conflicts

7 in the sense of the power balance between the Serbs and the Muslims,

8 Mr. Doslic?

9 A. Well, they were armed to their teeth, and people were afraid to

10 resist. What could we do? We couldn't do anything.

11 Q. Which takes me to Exhibit P640, which is another military

12 document, usher. It's the 1st Krajina Corps command to the main staff of

13 the Serbian Republic of BH Army, it's a regular combat report and I want

14 to take you to paragraph 1, the second paragraph, where it says the

15 situation on the part -- first page, Mr. Doslic. You're with me?

16 "The situation on the part of the front south of the Sava River is

17 still very complex. In the Prijedor and the Donji Vakuf area there have

18 been cases of armed provocation and attacks by paramilitary formations."

19 Would you think -- is that an accurate observation, from your own

20 knowledge on the ground, that there have been armed provocations between

21 the Muslims and the Serbs?

22 A. In Donji Vakuf, you mean?

23 Q. Yes, yes.

24 A. No, no.

25 Q. So you would not consider that to be an accurate reflection of

Page 14878

1 what you --

2 A. No, because the Muslims, for one had no weapons, and two, there

3 were no provocations.

4 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, Mr. Ackerman?

5 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, the language says, in the Prijedor and

6 Donji Vakuf area.

7 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, exactly. I was coming to that myself actually.

8 MR. ACKERMAN: There have been cases of armed provocations and

9 attacks by paramilitary formations. No where does it say armed

10 provocations between the Muslims and the Serbs as counsel put in her

11 question. It doesn't contend that so how could he say that it's not

12 accurate?

13 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, objection sustained. I would suggest, Madam

14 that you rephrase your question. And also distinguish between Prijedor

15 and Donji Vakuf asking of the witness whether he is in a position to

16 report on any information that he might have with regard to the Prijedor

17 or to the things happening, the events happening in Prijedor, because in

18 Donji Vakuf, I would imagine that he's very capable of reporting to us but

19 I'm not quite sure that he's in the same position as far as Prijedor is

20 concerned.

21 MS. CHANA: I'm obliged, Your Honour.

22 Q. Mr. Doslic, I refer to the Donji Vakuf area when I talk about when

23 the sentence talks about the Prijedor and Donji Vakuf, can you please just

24 concentrate on the Donji Vakuf area and it says there have been cases of

25 armed provocation. Would you agree that there was armed provocation in

Page 14879

1 Donji Vakuf?

2 A. No. There was no -- none, and I meant precisely Donji Vakuf

3 because I can't comment on what went on in Prijedor, since I was far away

4 from that place.

5 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, Mr. Ackerman?

6 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, still the question has nothing to do

7 with what the report says. The report is dealing with the Donji Vakuf

8 area, and we know in the Donji Vakuf area, there were armed conflicts

9 going on between Croat and Serb forces, and she keeps changing what the --

10 learned counsel keeps changing what it says to suit her question. It

11 doesn't say Donji Vakuf. It says the Donji Vakuf area. Which is a wider

12 area than just the village itself.

13 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, point taken again, Mr. Ackerman. Let me put

14 the question. The report that you have been asked to look at Mr. Doslic,

15 in this particular part, does not refer to Donji Vakuf, the town, or the

16 village or the town itself. But it refers to the Donji Vakuf area,

17 whatever that means. But I do have a map in front of me here, before me,

18 and it seems to include large number of small villages. The point that

19 has been made, and which is being submitted to you, is, to your knowledge,

20 referring back with your memory to the events happening, not in Donji

21 Vakuf town but in the Donji Vakuf area, if you are in a position to tell

22 us, would you confirm the rest of the statement as it appears in this

23 report, namely that there have been cases of armed provocation and attacks

24 by military formations? Either or, or both?

25 MS. CHANA: Thank you, Your Honour.

Page 14880

1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] You mean between Muslims and Serbs?

2 JUDGE AGIUS: Between anyone. The statement does not -- the

3 report here does not --

4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No, no.

5 JUDGE AGIUS: Does not mention -- it just mentions that there were

6 cases of armed provocation. Are you aware of any cases of armed

7 provocation around about this time, preceding this report, in the Donji

8 Vakuf area? Cases of armed provocation that you were aware of then? Or

9 that you came to know about later?

10 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No. If you allow me.

11 JUDGE AGIUS: Certainly. Go ahead.

12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] When the bridge was blown up, during

13 those days and on, they entered houses, started arresting people, taking

14 them away, so the population was intimidated. There were no conflicts

15 whatsoever. The only conflicts that there were were caused by them.

16 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Go ahead.

17 MS. CHANA: Thank you, Your Honour.

18 JUDGE AGIUS: And one other thing: Are you aware of any attacks

19 by paramilitary formations around about that time, in the Donji Vakuf

20 area?

21 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] You mean the town?

22 JUDGE AGIUS: No. In the area. Including the town. But in the

23 Donji Vakuf area.

24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No, no.

25 JUDGE AGIUS: When I asked you about armed provocation, who did

Page 14881

1 you have in mind? What did you understand that I was asking from you?

2 Armed provocation from whom?

3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Armed provocations in Donji Vakuf

4 were caused by Serb forces.

5 JUDGE AGIUS: And were there any paramilitary formations, Serb

6 paramilitary formations?

7 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Those were indeed Serb paramilitary

8 formations. That wasn't the regular police.

9 JUDGE AGIUS: So if this particular sentence in this report was

10 referring to cases of armed provocation by Serbs and attacks by Serb

11 paramilitary formations, in the Donji Vakuf area, would you agree with

12 that statement?

13 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

14 JUDGE AGIUS: And if instead it said that there have been cases of

15 armed provocation by Croats and attacks by Croat paramilitary formations

16 in the Donji Vakuf area around about that time, would you accept it as a

17 correct statement?

18 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No.

19 JUDGE AGIUS: And I put to you the same question. If it referred

20 to cases of armed provocation by Muslims and attacks by Muslim

21 paramilitary formations in the Donji Vakuf area around about that time,

22 would you accept it as a correct statement?

23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No.

24 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes.

25 MS. CHANA: Thank you, Your Honour. I would like now the witness

Page 14882

1 to be shown Exhibit P1721, please. This is the Crisis Staff of the Donji

2 Vakuf municipality. It's a decision establishing the administrative

3 organ.

4 Q. Mr. Doslic, if you look at that decision, which the usher is now

5 showing you, the council establishes the administrative organ under item

6 2 and it gives us eight names. Would you tell us whether you recognise

7 these names and you know these people and who were they, please?

8 A. I know Rajko Kisin, Ljubomir Kisin, I know him too. And Mile

9 Ilic. As well as Milan Surutka.

10 Q. And they were all what ethnic origin?

11 A. They were all Serbs.

12 Q. Thank you. Exhibit P1725, Your Honours, which is the Crisis Staff

13 in Banja Luka, and the -- after item 7, just below item 7, you have Nikola

14 Kisin, deputy in the Serbian Assembly of Bosnia-Herzegovina shall be

15 appointed commissioner responsible for forming civilian organs of

16 government in the Serbian Municipality of Donji Vakuf, and it goes on to

17 say that they are going to form the constitution, the Serbian Republic of

18 BH. This name and this person is familiar to you, is it not?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. And he was the one present at your exchange, the same person?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Thank you. Now I'm going to show you Exhibit P1735. It's the

23 Serbian Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina, Ministry of Internal Affairs,

24 from the public security station, and it's basically a list of arrested

25 persons held in Donji Vakuf police security station from 27th of May to

Page 14883

1 12th of July, 1992. Do you have the list before you? Yes. Can you look

2 on page 2 and number 48, would you see that name? Number 48?

3 A. 48 is where my name is.

4 Q. That's right. Now could you look at the other people? I believe

5 you have looked at this document before?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Would you confirm that you have seen this document before?

8 A. This document? No.

9 Q. Can you look at the names and do you recognise them?

10 A. Yes. Many of them. Camil Hadzic, Milan Petrovic, Hamdija Kuric,

11 Safet Smajic, Tahir Smajic, Mulo Robovic, Uzeir Verem, Niko Barisic,

12 Muhamed Smajic, Nasko Doslic, Dzevad Doslic.

13 JUDGE AGIUS: Stop. We don't need to go through all the list.

14 Just a question: Do you recognise the majority of them? Do you know the

15 majority of them? Yes, and then of course, madam, if you need to refer

16 him to anyone in particular, please go ahead.

17 MS. CHANA: No, that's fine, I just wanted to confirm that he

18 recognised the names. Exhibit P1750 is a Reuters report, Your Honours.

19 Q. Mr. Doslic, do you remember I showed this document to you at

20 proofing?

21 A. No.

22 MS. CHANA: Your Honour, if you could go through this report, and

23 if I would like -- I would like the witness thereafter to confirm that

24 this is an accurate description of the Donji Vakuf at the time.

25 Q. The body of the document reads: "The mosques in Donji Vakuf where

Page 14884

1 Muslims had lived in harmony with their Serbian neighbours for generations

2 are now empty or destroyed. The town and its surrounding villages have

3 seen their 11.000 Muslims dwindle to only 50 and half of those want to

4 leave, said the President of the local council Nedeljko Ninkovic. As in

5 hundreds of similar places across former Yugoslavia, this town just a few

6 kilometres from the front line in Bosnia's bloody civil war has been hit

7 by ethnic cleansing ripping communities apart. Asked whether the latest

8 cease-fire, the 7th in Bosnia's civil war was being respected, the local

9 Serb military commander said not one single cease-fire has been respected

10 in this area, including this one."

11 Your Honour, it goes on to talk about the people, the town, the

12 lack of -- the shortages.

13 Q. Mr. Doslic, have you now had a chance to look at it? Would you

14 confirm that this would be an accurate reporting of the situation on the

15 ground in the town of Donji Vakuf as you yourself saw it?

16 A. Yes, yes. Especially this first sentence, ending with Nedeljko

17 Ninkovic's name. That's the truth.

18 Q. And on page 2, it says, it all started on April 30, the Croats and

19 Muslims from neighbouring towns sent us a lorry full of explosives hidden

20 under a load of coal. What comment would you have to make on that?

21 A. I really don't know about that, no.

22 Q. It goes on to say it exploded in the centre of town devastating

23 the bridge and over the Vrbas. Is your understanding that the bridge was

24 destroyed by a lorry carrying coal?

25 A. Yes. The lorry was destroyed and you could see the coal traces.

Page 14885

1 And also parts of a vehicle.

2 Q. Thank you. That's the last document, Your Honour. P1759 is a

3 register of persons detained. Page -- sorry. Page 8, usher, if you could

4 point him to page 8, item number 37, Mr. Doslic, once you have the

5 document. Do you see item number 37, 16th June, 1992, it says first name

6 and last name of the person, Dzevad son of Zahid Doslic, 24th August,

7 1957, date of birth. Is that yourself, sir?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. The name of the organ who ordered -- decided the person to be

10 brought in is SJB. And then the next column says, Mr. Doslic, reason for

11 persons being brought in and detained and it says in your case, suspected

12 of possession of weapons. As I believe is the case for all of them.

13 Would you say that is true?

14 A. No, no. As I've told you, when they wanted --

15 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, Mr. Ackerman?

16 MR. ACKERMAN: The question is not precise. What is she asking is

17 true?

18 JUDGE AGIUS: I understand it that it's whether he -- the

19 suspicion of his possibly possessing weapons was true, was a founded one

20 or not.

21 MR. ACKERMAN: So the question is not whether he possessed

22 weapons, but whether he knows whether or not he was suspected of

23 possessing weapons? Is that correct?

24 JUDGE AGIUS: Let's rephrase the question.

25 MS. CHANA: Yes, Your Honour.

Page 14886

1 Q. When it says suspected of possession of weapons, do you think that

2 was the ground under which you had been asked to report to the MUP and

3 then you were subsequently arrested?

4 A. I don't know how to reply to that question. They went into all

5 houses and -- looking for weapons but taking other items. There were no

6 weapons whatsoever in our house. I never had them. Nobody in my family

7 had them. Then they would take the people away and imprison them.

8 JUDGE AGIUS: Were you ever told why you were detained?

9 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No, no.

10 JUDGE AGIUS: Were you ever questioned in the course of your

11 detention?

12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No.

13 MS. CHANA:

14 Q. Were you ever asked by anybody that we have reason to believe you

15 have weapons? Do you have weapons? Were such questions ever put to you

16 at any time during your -- before and during your detention?

17 A. No.

18 Q. So would you think that this is an accurate reason for being

19 detained that has been reflected in this document that you were suspected

20 of possession of weapons or do you think there were some other reason you

21 were arrested, and if so, what do you think that was?

22 A. The other reason was that I was a Muslim. In fact, that was the

23 main reason. And the second reason was that they wanted to break into

24 people's homes under the pretext of looking for weapons and then carry out

25 other items. I never ever in my life had any weapons.

Page 14887

1 Q. If you look at the rest of the list, if you have a quick look

2 through, Mr. Doslic, there are some other names, and the reason given is

3 exactly the same. Do you recognise the name firstly and I'll come to the

4 reason second. If you just take a little time to look through the names I

5 think you were shown this document by myself during proofing. Would you

6 confirm that and that you had an opportunity to look at these names

7 before?

8 A. No. I have never seen this document before, but I recognise a lot

9 of names here, and if needed, I can enumerate them. I can tell you which

10 people I know. But their case is the same as mine. They would come to

11 somebody's home, looking for a pretext to arrest them, and ask for

12 weapons, and then after that, they would arrest them.

13 Q. Because, Mr. Doslic, when you were first -- you said that it was

14 the Serbs who came to your house and told your wife and daughter that if

15 you did not report to MUP, your whole family would come upon some sort of

16 harm, at that time, did they say that we believe that Mr. Doslic is

17 suspected of having weapons? Do you remember that being reported to you?

18 A. No, no, they didn't say anything. It's just that when my sister

19 came out, I didn't come out, but my sister came out and they told her that

20 if I failed to report they would come and get the entire family.

21 Q. And weapons were never mentioned at that time, could you confirm

22 that, please?

23 A. No, never.

24 MS. CHANA: Your Honour, that concludes my examination-in-chief of

25 this witness unless there is anything else that I could assist the Court

Page 14888

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Page 14889

1 on.

2 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, thank you, Madam Chana. Yes, Mr. Ackerman.

3 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour first thing is counsel I think probably

4 inadvertently said for the record that if you look at this document the

5 reasons given for detention in each case are the same. If we just look at

6 it it's clear that that's not the case. There are -- a large number have

7 that reason but there are other reasons too.

8 JUDGE AGIUS: Your statement is correct, Mr. Ackerman.

9 MR. ACKERMAN: One of them has to do with theft, one has to do

10 what stealing flour, one has to do with detained by an army unit. They

11 don't all say the same. Second thing, Your Honour, I was given to

12 understand yesterday that the direct examination would take the entire

13 morning. But it obviously moved much faster than they believed. I'm

14 wondering if we might do this? I didn't have time during the last break

15 to complete my communication with Mr. Brdjanin. I think another half hour

16 might be very useful, and then that would enable us to maybe meet around

17 1.15 or something like that and I can report to you that situation.

18 JUDGE AGIUS: And you will conduct the cross-examination tomorrow.

19 MR. ACKERMAN: First thing in the morning and I think it will be

20 fairly short, Your Honour.

21 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes and was it the understanding with the witness

22 that he would be needed here tomorrow? Or arrangements have been made for

23 his return?

24 MS. RICHTEROVA: He's leaving on Friday so there is no problem.

25 JUDGE AGIUS: So that is perfectly okay with us? All right?

Page 14890

1 Yeah. Let's fix a time. It's half past 12.00 now, half past noon, now.

2 12.15?

3 MR. ACKERMAN: 1.15 Your Honour.

4 JUDGE AGIUS: 1.15, my legal assistants will meet you as yesterday

5 in the lobby and will escort you to my Chamber.

6 MR. ACKERMAN: Actually it might be easier for him to meet in the

7 Defence area, since we kind of go there anyhow. I can meet you at that

8 stair landing just outside the Defence room area.

9 JUDGE AGIUS: Just before 1.15. And Madam Richterova, please, if

10 you could alert Ms. Sutherland as well, in case she has been in contact --

11 I don't know what is the arrangements between you.

12 MS. RICHTEROVA: I can handle this by myself.

13 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. So we will meet at 1.15 in my chambers. And

14 here we are adjourning to tomorrow morning at 9.00 and we will meet to

15 continue discussing the matters we were discussing in chambers yesterday

16 which are strictly personal matters for the record, and are better dealt

17 with in chambers rather than here in open court.

18 Mr. Brdjanin will be briefed on these matters by your counsel. So

19 1.15, my chambers, please.

20 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at

21 12.31 p.m., to be reconvened on Thursday,

22 the 27th day of February, 2003, at 9.00 a.m.

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