1 Friday, 4 July 2003
2 [Open session]
3 --- Upon commencing at 9.04 a.m.
4 [The accused entered court]
5 JUDGE AGIUS: Madam Registrar, could you call the case, please.
6 THE REGISTRAR: Yes, Your Honour. Good morning, Your Honours.
7 This is case number IT-99-36-T, the Prosecutor versus Radoslav Brdjanin.
8 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you.
9 Mr. Brdjanin, good morning to you.
10 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Good morning.
11 JUDGE AGIUS: I take it that you can follow the proceedings in a
12 language that you can understand?
13 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, I can, Your Honours.
14 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you.
15 You are not as tall as the newcomer that we had yesterday, but you
16 behave better.
17 Appearances for the Prosecution.
18 MR. KOUMJIAN: Good morning, Your Honours. Nicholas Koumjian and
19 Ann Sutherland, assisted by Denise Gustin.
20 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you. And good morning to you all.
21 Appearances for Radoslav Brdjanin, please.
22 MR. ACKERMAN: Good morning, Your Honours. I'm John Ackerman.
23 I'm here with Aleksandar Vujic and playing music for you. And I noticed
24 before I came up here that there seems to be absolutely nothing going on
25 in Courtroom III, just in case --
1 JUDGE AGIUS: I am not informed, Mr. Ackerman.
2 I see that you have a newcomer on the team?
3 MR. ACKERMAN: No. This is a legal officer, Your Honour.
4 JUDGE AGIUS: Oh, I see.
5 MR. ACKERMAN: Who just has decided to come and --
6 JUDGE AGIUS: I thought you had an addition.
7 MR. ACKERMAN: And he's welcome. We're glad to have him with us.
8 If he'd help a little bit it would even be better.
9 JUDGE AGIUS: Before I proceed. I see there are several of you
10 coming from the United States. Today is your national day. May I wish
11 you happy national day.
12 So shall we go straight into closed session and bring the witness
13 in, or are there any preliminaries? Because I see a long session ahead.
14 MR. KOUMJIAN: Hopefully --
15 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, Mr. Ackerman.
16 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, I did just very quickly want to say
17 for the record that we're now several days, us American Defence counsel,
18 appearing illegally before this Tribunal. We still have not -- still have
19 not been issued licences.
20 JUDGE AGIUS: Oh, I see.
21 Mr. Ackerman, I haven't seen President Meron this morning as yet,
22 because I wanted to wish him too many happy returns on the 4th of July,
23 but I will during the first break, and I will check on developments.
24 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, I remember last year on the 4th of
25 July we were also working, and you brought us all a fortune cookie. I was
1 wondering if we should expect another fortune cookie.
2 JUDGE AGIUS: No. They gave me just one cookie yesterday, which I
3 gave to someone else.
4 MR. ACKERMAN: Okay.
5 JUDGE AGIUS: So it's over.
6 Yes, Mr. Koumjian.
7 MR. KOUMJIAN: We're ready, Your Honour. Hopefully there won't be
8 any fireworks in the courtroom on this day.
9 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. I can assure you if there -- if there are, or
10 if there will be, I will stay out of it.
11 Let's get into closed session. Are we in closed session? Not
13 [Closed session]
12 Pages 18859 to 18942 – redacted – closed session.
4 [Open session]
5 JUDGE AGIUS: Relating to Bosanski Krupa municipality.
6 You had an objection based on two grounds: One is that a number
7 of documents which you indicated lacked signatures and official stamps and
8 therefore lacked indicia of reliability. We have already handed down
9 decisions in the past that this argument does not hold water at this
10 particular stage of the proceedings. Absence of signature and official
11 stamp does not necessarily rule out the indicia of reliability; and
12 therefore, all those documents are being admitted.
13 And then you objected also to the admission of certain other
14 documents which you indicated in your response. I have reason to believe
15 that all these documents were disclosed to you, Mr. Ackerman. If you --
16 if I am convinced of the contrary, I can assure you that they will be
17 taken out of the records, but I would invite you again to check with the
18 Prosecution to ensure that they were indeed disclosed to you. I'm
19 referring to P2065, P2070, P2081, P2094. There is indeed as you say in
20 B/C/S missing, P2103, and P2107.
21 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, I really need to make something very
22 clear for the record. At no time, I don't believe, am I making
23 accusations against the Prosecutor that they have not given me these
24 documents. But I have received as of this morning just in the -- the
25 documents that I call Prosecution disclosure documents over 65.000 pages.
1 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. And these were disclosed to you in 2000 and
3 MR. ACKERMAN: In 65.000 pages of documents, I'm going to lose one
4 or two. So I'm not saying they didn't give them to me. I'm just saying
5 it's difficult for me to tell you whether I object because I don't have
6 them in front of me.
7 JUDGE AGIUS: All right. That satisfies me even more than my
8 own decision. And you had no objection with regard to the other
9 documents, so basically our decision is that all the documentation
10 proffered by the Prosecution relating to the Bosanski Krupa municipality
11 is being admitted.
12 Then there was another matter that I am going to decide now, and
13 that is -- relates to the attachments to the statements of Witness 7.243.
14 You remember that we had mentioned this during one of the sittings last
15 week or the week before. We have had since then the response from the
16 Prosecution, taking up what I had mentioned during the open session.
17 Basically the position is as follows: You are not objecting as such to
18 the admission of the statement of Witness 7.243, and that -- therefore his
19 statement is being admitted.
20 You objected to the attachments because you submitted that they
21 were irrelevant, and you also submitted that if the attachments were to be
22 admitted in evidence then you requested that the witness be produced for
23 the examination. You will recall that I tried to have a clarification
24 from the Prosecution and from you what attachments we were really
25 referring to, what your objection was. The position as it has
1 crystallised now seems to be the following: The Prosecution agrees with
2 my remark made during the previous sitting - I don't remember - on the
3 24th of June, namely that the brochure, which was one of the attachments
4 and which bears ERN 0184-8201 to 8206 is of limited relevance and they
5 are no longer seeking its admission. Therefore, our decision is that it
6 will be expunged from -- from the -- from being an attachment to the
8 There was also the book written by that person. We had two
9 copies; one in B/C/S, one in English. I am being told by the Prosecution
10 that they do not seek admission of limited portions of the CD-ROM, which
11 contains two books in English by this witness. The Prosecution seeks
12 admission of all the photos on the CD but not the text. Some of the
13 photos were used by Colin Kaiser in his report and referred to in his
14 testimony. At this point in time, may I ask you if you maintain your
15 opposition now or not?
16 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, yes, because the photos and the text
17 are not separated. If the photos were on there as separate documents, I
18 have no problems with the photos at all.
19 JUDGE AGIUS: All right.
20 MR. ACKERMAN: The problem is with the text. And that comes from
21 Mr. Kaiser's position that the text -- he found the text to be unreliable
22 and not correct.
23 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. All right. So do you want the text.
24 MR. ACKERMAN: No, I do not want the text. That is what I'm
25 objecting to. I don't have any objection to the photographs. If they
1 separate them from the text, it's not a problem.
2 JUDGE AGIUS: So our decision is to admit the photographs. We
3 will not be looking at the text, Mr. Ackerman. So that is the position.
4 We also want to make it clear that we had on the 27th of May,
5 during the testimony of Mr. Colin Kaiser admitted under P1884.127 some
6 of the attachments to the statements of Witness 7.243. And it seems that
7 I am put on record as having stated that the matter of admittance would be
8 revisted just for formality sake when we come to Witness 7.243. The
9 position remains as it was. They are being so admitted but only in
10 relation to what Mr. Kaiser testified and not for any other purposes.
11 So be it. I wish you all a nice weekend, and I hope I will have
12 one too. Thank you.
13 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned
14 at 1.49 p.m., to be reconvened on Monday,
15 the 7th day of July, 2003, at 9.00 a.m.