Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 19914

1 Wednesday, 23 July 2003

2 [Open session]

3 [The accused entered court]

4 --- Upon commencing at 9.02 a.m.

5 JUDGE AGIUS: So, Madam Registrar, could you call the case,

6 please?

7 THE REGISTRAR: Yes, Your Honour. Good morning, Your Honours.

8 This is the case number IT-99-36-T, the Prosecutor versus Radoslav

9 Brdjanin.

10 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, madam. Mr. Brdjanin, can you follow

11 the proceedings in a language that you can understand?

12 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Good morning. Yes, I can follow in

13 a language I understand.

14 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, and good morning to you.

15 Appearances for the Prosecution.

16 MR. KOUMJIAN: Good morning, Your Honours. Nicholas Koumjian and

17 Denise Gustin.

18 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, and good morning to you.

19 Appearances for Radoslav Brdjanin.

20 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Good morning, Your Honours. David Cunningham

21 with Aleksandar Vujic.

22 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, and good morning to you too.

23 Any preliminaries? Yes.

24 MR. KOUMJIAN: I would just advise Your Honours, I did not

25 interview, but I spoke briefly to the witness yesterday.

Page 19915

1 JUDGE AGIUS: You are withdrawing him?

2 MR. KOUMJIAN: No. I don't know if we need to go into private

3 session for this.

4 JUDGE AGIUS: Let's go into private session.

5 [Private session]

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12 [Open session]

13 JUDGE AGIUS: -- Or give any indications as to who he could be.

14 Yes, Mr. Koumjian.

15 MR. KOUMJIAN: Your Honour, I want to bring to the attention of

16 the Trial Chamber what I feel are inappropriate gestures by the accused,

17 Mr. Brdjanin, when the witness is testifying. I see him several times

18 making a gesture with his hands similar to what I've just done, which

19 would indicate to me that he is indicating some objection to what the

20 witness is testifying to, which I think is -- well, any gesture is

21 inappropriate in this context.

22 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes.

23 Mr. Cunningham, to be truthful, I was not watching your client, so

24 I cannot confirm or pass any judgement on what Mr. Koumjian has just

25 stated. However, there were previous occasions when I did notice some

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Page 19938

1 kind of reaction, similar reactions, from your client on other days, so I

2 wouldn't be surprised at all if this is precisely what is happening. In

3 the past I have always asked Mr. Ackerman to address himself straight to

4 the witness -- to the client, and I will leave it entirely in your hands.

5 I mean, you know how to do it, because you are a trained lawyer with a lot

6 of experience behind you, so I'm not interfering with that.

7 MR. CUNNINGHAM: No. I understand that, Your Honour, and I'd like

8 just a minute, if the Court pleases, to do that right now.

9 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Thank you.

10 Mr. Vujic, you need to help him, I think.

11 [Defence counsel confer]

12 [Trial Chamber confers with registrar]

13 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Your Honour, I'm in the same position as you. I

14 didn't see any gestures, but what I am told is that he was not trying to

15 make any gestures towards the witness but rather trying to make gestures

16 towards Mr. Vujic. But I've counselled with the accused to --

17 JUDGE AGIUS: It's okay. I'll take your word and your client's

18 word.

19 Mr. Cunningham, I take it that your client will be more careful in

20 trying to attract the attention of Mr. Vujic.

21 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Judge, I've advised him, and I'm not giving away

22 anything with respect to attorney-client privilege, but I've advised him

23 to avoid any gesture that might be interpreted as inappropriate towards

24 the witness or this Court.

25 JUDGE AGIUS: Actually, in this courtroom there is one advantage

Page 19939

1 which you don't find in other courtrooms and that is the proximity of the

2 accused to counsel, which is ideal, right? In other words, Mr. Brdjanin,

3 I'm sure, can call Mr. Vujic, and Mr. Vujic will pay attention or give him

4 attention. But otherwise, any gestures which are uncalled for, please try

5 to avoid, because we can review the video recording and it would involve

6 us in a waste of time, unnecessary waste of time, and possibly undesirable

7 measures that will need to be taken if this is the case. So let's bring

8 the witness in, and I am going to explain -- closed session. Let's go

9 into closed session first.

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20 [Open session]

21 JUDGE AGIUS: I wish to once more thank, in open session, the

22 members, the staff members of the interpretation unit and the technical

23 staff, and everyone else who is present in this courtroom. Once more, you

24 have given a very valid contribution to enable a witness to return home

25 earlier than expected and to save this Tribunal valuable resources. And

Page 19998

1 this, by overstaying beyond your contractual time. I wish that this is

2 communicated, both to the head of the unit, respective units, as well as

3 to the President of this Tribunal. I thank you.

4 We stand adjourned until tomorrow morning at 9.00. The idea is

5 now to try to make -- do your best, both of you, to have the next witness

6 finished by Friday, because the next witness was scheduled to go

7 on -- continue on Monday. So if we can send him back home on Friday or

8 Saturday, that would be also a very valid, positive step. Okay?

9 MR. KOUMJIAN: I don't want to take up your time, but I understand

10 that would not help much because we don't have a witness for Monday. But

11 we'll deal with that tomorrow.

12 JUDGE AGIUS: Get the witness or Monday or get something else for

13 Monday. Thank you.

14 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 12.39 p.m.

15 to be reconvened on Thursday, the 24th day of

16 July 2003, at 9.00 a.m.

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