1 Wednesday, 30 July 2003
2 [Open session]
3 --- Upon commencing at 9.08 a.m.
4 [The accused entered court]
5 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Madam Registrar, could you call the case,
7 THE REGISTRAR: Yes, Your Honour. Good morning, Your Honours.
8 This is the case number IT-99-36-T, the Prosecutor versus Radoslav
10 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you.
11 Mr. Brdjanin, good morning to you. Can you follow in a language
12 that you can understand?
13 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Good morning, Your Honour. I can
14 follow in a language I understand.
15 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you. Please take a chair.
16 Appearances for the Prosecution.
17 MR. NICHOLLS: Good morning, Your Honours. Julian Nicholls with
18 Tim Resch and Denise Gustin. Thank you.
19 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, and good morning to you.
20 Appearances for Radoslav Brdjanin.
21 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Good morning, Your Honours. David Cunningham
22 with Aleksandar Vujic.
23 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, and good morning to you too.
24 Any preliminaries before we bring in the witness?
25 MR. NICHOLLS: Not from our side, Your Honour.
1 JUDGE AGIUS: From your side, Mr. Cunningham?
2 MR. CUNNINGHAM: None, Your Honour.
3 JUDGE AGIUS: All right. The witness has pseudonym; no?
4 MR. NICHOLLS: And closed session, Your Honour.
5 JUDGE AGIUS: And closed session. Yes. I am afraid I have bad
6 news for members of the public. This witness is a sensitive witness who
7 needs to be protected, and so our decision is to conduct the hearing of
8 his testimony in a closed session. Thank you. I'm sorry about that.
9 Let's go into closed session, please.
10 [Closed session]
12 Pages 20376 20430 – redacted – closed session.
7 [Open session]
8 JUDGE AGIUS: I suppose --
9 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please, for the Presiding Judge.
10 JUDGE AGIUS: I suppose we don't finish here. I suppose there is
11 some --
12 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, that's why I've come into Court.
13 Tomorrow's witness only arrived -- I mean got here this morning.
14 JUDGE AGIUS: He's already here.
15 MS. KORNER: He's reading at the moment, A, the statement he made,
16 and, B, I've asked that he be shown some documents from the relevant
17 period to see if he can assist with some of the events. So he won't be
18 able to testify until, as planned, tomorrow.
19 Your Honour, we have, as I indicated, I think some time ago to
20 Your Honour, some, as it were, housekeeping -- I'll just wait.
21 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, Ms. Korner.
22 MS. KORNER: I think generally called housekeeping, it's actually
23 some further documents that we want to put in. We also have the results
24 of the handwriting analysis, and various other bits and pieces. Your
25 Honour, I don't anticipate that tomorrow's witness will take the full two
1 days that we've set aside. I don't know if Mr. Cunningham can help on how
2 long Mr. Ackerman is likely to be.
3 MR. CUNNINGHAM: I'm not in a position to give you any
4 information, and I apologise.
5 MS. KORNER: But it seems to me probably that I would be able to
6 conclude, I hope, subject to what he can say about documents, my
7 examination-in-chief, if not before the first break tomorrow, pretty
8 shortly afterwards. So, Your Honour, we would then intend, subject to
9 Mr. Ackerman's cross-examination, to deal with these documents on Friday.
10 Your Honour, we can, if Your Honours were to take your break now --
11 Mr. Radojko, Judge Radojko, made a further statement yesterday in respect
12 of the other documents that we didn't manage to show him. We've got the
13 statement and we've got the schedule now to show which documents he was
14 able to authenticate, and so we can hand them in now. I mean, they're not
15 right in Court this moment, but we could do that later, and and any other
16 matters -- if Your Honours have any other administrative matters that you
17 want to deal with today.
18 JUDGE AGIUS: I personally do not have any other administrative
19 matters. The only thing that is pending, to my knowledge, is what
20 Mr. Roberts and myself, the other two Judges, discussed earlier on today,
21 exactly when the two -- the experts will be cross-examined, whether they
22 will be cross-examined the week of the 6th October or that they would be
23 cross-examined the week of the 13th of October.
24 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, we communicated that. We don't -- the
25 Office of the Prosecutor --
1 JUDGE AGIUS: I know that.
2 MS. KORNER: -- doesn't take any position at all. But I rather
3 feel that Mr. Ackerman's request for an extra week was an extra week out
4 of Court as opposed to coming into Court.
5 JUDGE AGIUS: I would imagine, so that's how I take it too. So
6 it's an advance warning, sort of, of what our decision is likely to be.
7 If Mr. Ackerman insists to start on the 14th with the cross-examination of
8 those witnesses, that means that's how it will be. I'm sort of telling
9 you in advance where we turn. That's number one.
10 Number two: We obviously need to hand down a decision, which is
11 being worked upon at the moment, on the intercepts. I don't think that we
12 will be in a position to hand that down in writing before we go into
13 recess. I doubt it. I'll do my best, but we need to discuss a lot
14 between us. So I don't think that will be --
15 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, we're obviously proposing to use the
16 intercepts as part of our response to anything Mr. Ackerman may have to
17 say on no case to answer, under Rule 98.
18 JUDGE AGIUS: You can take it, Ms. Korner, that we didn't doubt
19 for a moment that you intended anything different, and you can also take
20 it that our decision will be handed down much --
21 MS. KORNER: Before the --
22 JUDGE AGIUS: That's for sure. That's for sure.
23 MS. KORNER: -- the response. Well, then, Your Honour, I suppose
24 rather than keeping Your Honours and Mr. Cunningham here, I mean, we can
25 deal with handing in the statements and schedules. Oh, I see we've
1 been -- Your Honours, we do have the statement. The schedules aren't
2 here, but we can hand in the new statement that he made.
3 JUDGE AGIUS: If they can be handed down now, it's much better,
4 and I will tell you why: Because I'm supposed also to be present today
5 for the final deliberations on the Krnojelac appeal.
6 MS. KORNER: Well, Your Honour, as I say, it was only a
8 JUDGE AGIUS: If I can find time, I mean, I will go there.
9 MS. KORNER: Well, then, Your Honour, what we'll do now is we'll
10 simply hand in, if the usher -- and I don't think Mr. Cunningham has had
11 it yet. No. There are one, two, three for the Registry and one for
12 Mr. Cunningham, and one extra.
13 Your Honour, he was deliberately simply asked to restrict his
14 answers on these documents to whether he was able to authenticate them or
15 knew anything about them.
16 JUDGE AGIUS: All right. I think I need to clarify something on
17 this. This is a procedure that was sort of agreed upon yesterday. But it
18 goes without saying that if the Defence at any time wants to contest to
19 the witness any matter relating to his identification of these documents,
20 then they will be given the opportunity to do so.
21 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, absolutely. I mean, it was the quickest
22 way of doing it.
23 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, yes. No, no. I appreciate. I agreed to it as
24 well, you know. I mean, it's ... But should there be the need to summon
25 Mr. Radojko again, then obviously we will have to do that.
1 MS. KORNER: Well, Your Honour, we'll wait and see what the
2 situation is.
3 JUDGE AGIUS: Thanks.
4 MS. KORNER: Well, Your Honour, that's the situation, and as I
5 say, then on Friday, subject to how long Mr. Ackerman is going to be with
6 the witness, we'll deal with effectively the other matters.
7 JUDGE AGIUS: All right. Yes. Okay. Thanks a lot. We'll
8 adjourn now and we will reconvene tomorrow morning at 9.00 in this same
9 courtroom. Okay. Thank you.
10 [Trial Chamber confers]
11 JUDGE AGIUS: One moment, because Judge Taya is raising something
12 which may be useful. Because it's been suggested that if you think, after
13 consultation between you, Ms. Korner, and Mr. Ackerman, that we could
14 dispose of tomorrow's witness by the end of tomorrow's business day, time,
15 then perhaps we can reconvene now and admit the new documents that you
16 would like to tender. Or they are not ready?
17 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, they're not. I mean, they're being put
18 together, and the Defence, I don't think -- I think they're having them
19 disclosed to them today, or possibly, so they haven't yet seen them. So
20 I'm sorry about that. It literally is because we've had to, as it were,
21 play very much catch-up with the time allowed.
22 JUDGE AGIUS: No, no. What I am saying: If basically we can
23 avoid sitting on Friday, that will be much better for everyone.
24 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, I do think it's going to take a little
25 bit of time to go through -- some things are going to need explanation.
1 It's not just a question of putting documents in.
2 JUDGE AGIUS: I see. All right.
3 MS. KORNER: I'm sorry about that.
4 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. All right. Thank you.
5 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, I'm so sorry. We do have the schedules
6 now, so can I just ask that they be handed in? And formally, can I make
7 them an exhibit, I think? And I think we've got to exhibit - Ms. Gustin
8 is just giving me the number - 2455.
9 JUDGE AGIUS: So they are being admitted -- the statement is
10 24 -- the statement itself --
11 MS. KORNER: Yes. Although it's not in Rule 98 form, of
12 course -- Rule --
13 JUDGE AGIUS: No, no. I know it's not in Rule 98 --
14 MS. KORNER: Rule 92, sorry.
15 JUDGE AGIUS: Rule 92, yes.
16 MS. KORNER: But, Your Honour, we can still, I think, make it an
17 exhibit. It's not an objection.
18 [Trial Chamber confers]
19 MS. KORNER: It's not a sworn document.
20 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, yes, yes. That's very clear.
22 Mr. Cunningham.
23 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Just so that my record is clear, P2455 is going
24 to be the statement that was just handed to me, or the schedule that I got
1 MS. KORNER: I think -- can we make the statement 2455 and then
2 the schedule 2455.1.
3 JUDGE AGIUS: Is Mr. Radojko still available here in The Hague or
4 not? No.
5 MS. KORNER: No. He left. And then the will be schedule 2455.1.
6 JUDGE AGIUS: Anything else?
7 MS. KORNER: No, thank you, Your Honour.
8 JUDGE AGIUS: See you tomorrow morning.
9 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 12.05 p.m.,
10 to be reconvened on Thursday, the 31st day of
11 July, 2003, at 9.00 a.m.