1 Monday, 8 December 2003
2 [Open session]
3 --- Upon commencing at 9.07 a.m.
4 [The accused entered court]
5 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, good morning. Madam Registrar, could you call
6 the case, please.
7 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning, Your Honours. Case Number
8 IT-99-36-T, The Prosecutor versus Radoslav Brdjanin.
9 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, ma'am.
10 Mr. Brdjanin, good morning to you. Can you follow the proceedings
11 in a language you can understand?
12 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Good morning, Your Honours. Yes, I
14 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you. And good morning to you.
15 Appearances, Prosecution.
16 MS. KORNER: Good morning, Your Honours. Joanna Korner assisted
17 by Denise Gustin, case manager.
18 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you.
19 Appearances for Radoslav Brdjanin.
20 MR. CUNNINGHAM: David Cunningham with John Ackerman, assisted by
21 Aleksandar Vujic, Your Honour. Good morning.
22 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you and good morning to you all.
23 I understand there are some preliminaries.
24 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, may I start this morning, I was waiting
25 till Mr. Ackerman to return to the Court, although in fact in a sense it's
1 not something that he can have much of a say because it affects him. It
2 deals with the question of the contempt hearing against the Defence
3 attorney as she was then, Milka Maglov.
4 Your Honour will recall that during the hearing which I observed,
5 Ms. Hollis who has been instructed as amicus by the registry raised the
6 question of whether or not the composition of the Trial Chamber should be
7 the same as for the trial. And Your Honour, in essence, I'm raising it
8 now in the presence of Mr. Brdjanin and Defence counsel for this reason:
9 Your Honours have ordered that the hearing be held, effectively still
10 during the course of the trial against Radoslav Brdjanin.
11 Your Honours, aside from the fact whether it perhaps is a matter
12 that in any event should be dealt with by another Trial Chamber, although
13 I know in my jurisdiction, a contempt in the face of a court is dealt with
14 certainly in the first place by the Judge. Your Honour, here the facts
15 are slightly different, and the problem is one that I wish to before
16 Your Honours, that it's quite plain that Mr. Ackerman will be a witness.
17 Ms. Hollis raised, I think, the question of whether in fact she might call
18 him. Ms. Maglov made no bones about it. She intends to call Mr. Ackerman
19 as a witness.
20 And Your Honours, what that does is raise, in our respectful
21 submission, a difficulty in that Your Honours may find yourselves in the
22 position of having to assess the quality of Mr. Ackerman's evidence whilst
23 he is still appearing in front of you as Defence counsel. Your Honours,
24 in those circumstances, it seems to me that it may put everyone in an
25 embarrassing position, both Your Honours and Mr. Ackerman himself.
1 Your Honours, our respectful submission is that could have an effect,
2 could, and I say no more than that, at a later stage, once this trial is
3 completed, or even possibly whilst the trial is still going on. And
4 Your Honours, what we would respectfully ask - because in this the
5 Prosecution does have an interest - is either that this matter be, if the
6 date is to be retained, that it be heard by a different Trial Chamber or a
7 different composition of Trial Chamber II, or alternatively, that the
8 matter be adjourned until the conclusion of the proceedings in the
9 Brdjanin case.
10 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Thank you, Ms. Korner.
11 Do you have any comments, Mr. Ackerman?
12 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, it would be inappropriate for me to
13 say very much because of my witness status. But I -- it has occurred to
14 me that if the Brdjanin trial is still ongoing at the time this hearing is
15 held, I might very well have a right to assert a privilege against
16 testifying based on work product and matters of that nature which would
17 not exist if the trial were over. And I have not consulted anyone
18 regarding that other than my own brain. But it could create a serious
19 problem, I think.
20 JUDGE AGIUS: Anyway, we will take what you have both stated into
21 consideration, and we will take a decision in due course. But I might as
22 well inform you that in the past month or so, there was -- there were
23 steps taken to have the case -- the contempt case transferred to another
24 Chamber again, the second time I tried that. And it was returned back to
25 us, and not only that, but another contempt case that we were going to be
1 seized with has been referred back to the same. So there is a policy
2 going on.
3 I do read you out loud and clear, Ms. Korner. Don't misunderstand
4 me. I do not share your preoccupations, and that I can say without
5 hesitation. I don't -- I'm not really worried about what you are worried
6 or what you are concerned with. I am more concerned with what
7 Mr. Ackerman has just mentioned now because that, indeed, could create a
8 problem for whoever tries to produce him or bring him forward as a
9 witness. But anyway, these may well be pleasures yet to come. But we'll
10 think about what you have stated and we will take a decision. Thank you.
11 Anything else before -- yes, Mr. Cunningham.
12 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Judge, I owe the Chamber an apology because I
13 didn't deliver an exhibit list. What I've tried to do, and done, is made
14 copies of the exhibits that I'm going to use and distributed them to the
15 Registrar. So I apologise to the Chamber about that. With respect to
16 witnesses, we had planned for Witness number 11 to be here this week.
17 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes.
18 MR. CUNNINGHAM: That witness is not testifying.
19 JUDGE AGIUS: All right.
20 MR. CUNNINGHAM: We believe that based on the representations made
21 by the OTP, that the witnesses we have scheduled which are 40, 63, and 64
22 will take us through the end of the business day on Thursday.
23 JUDGE AGIUS: All right. Thank you, Mr. Cunningham.
24 Let's go into closed session. We'll bring the witness in and
25 we'll see whether it's the case of confirming the protective measures that
1 we have granted.
2 [Closed session]
12 Pages 23295 to 23373 redacted, closed session
22 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.42 p.m.,
23 to be reconvened on Tuesday, the 9th day of
24 December, 2003, at 9.00 a.m.