1 Thursday, 24 June 2004
2 [Status Conference]
3 [Open session]
4 [The accused entered court]
5 --- Upon commencing at 2.40 p.m.
6 JUDGE PARKER: Call the case, please.
7 THE REGISTRAR: Good afternoon, Your Honour. This is case number
8 IT-03-73-PT, the Prosecutor versus Ivan Cermak, and Mladen Markac.
9 JUDGE PARKER: Good afternoon. We're together for a Status
10 Conference this afternoon. I would inquire first whether, Mr. Cermak, you
11 are able to hear what is being said in a language you understand.
12 THE ACCUSED CERMAK: [Interpretation] Yes, I am. Thank you.
13 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Markac, are you able to understand?
14 THE ACCUSED MARKAC: [Interpretation] Yes, I am.
15 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Ierace, you appear?
16 MR. IERACE: Yes. I do together with Laurie Sartorio, trial
17 attorney, and case manager Lakshmie Walpita.
18 JUDGE PARKER: And counsel for Mr. Cermak.
19 MR. PRODANOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I'm Cedo Prodanovic.
20 Together with me is Mrs. Jadranka Slokovic.
21 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you. And for Mr. Markac.
22 MR. CEPAROVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I am Miroslav
23 Ceparovic, representative of Mr. Markac. My co-counsel is Goran
25 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you. The parties will be aware that the
1 pre-trial management of this case has been assigned to me, and the reason
2 for calling you together today is because of the requirement of the Rules
3 is for Status Conferences to be held at least every 120 days. So it was
4 convenient that you come together today to ensure that requirement was
6 Now, I'm aware of only two matters that require specific
7 attention. The first concerns the requirement of the Rules as to
8 disclosure by the Prosecutor. There seemed a little earlier to be some
9 perhaps misunderstanding as to when that requirement was satisfied. I
10 think we've managed to clear that up.
11 Do I now understand, Mr. Ierace, that you understand that you have
12 completed your disclosure obligations?
13 MR. IERACE: Pursuant to 66(A)(i), we have, Your Honour, as of the
14 3rd of June.
15 JUDGE PARKER: All right. Thank you. Is there any disagreement
16 with that by either Defence teams?
17 MR. CEPAROVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, there is no
18 disagreement. I would like to point out that according to your ruling
19 dated the 26th May, on the 16th of June the Prosecutor informed both us
20 and yourselves that -- that they had disclosed the supportive materials on
21 the 3rd of June, as my learned friend has stated. So we believe that the
22 deadline for objection will start on the 16th of June, when we were
23 informed about that. That's why we would like you to make a ruling to
24 that effect. We base this position on Rule 72 in connection with Rule 66.
25 Thank you.
1 JUDGE PARKER: Rule 72 you referred to. What particular part of
2 the Rule did you have in mind?
3 MR. CEPAROVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, Article 72(A) and (B)
4 paragraph (ii) are the ones that I had in mine.
5 JUDGE PARKER: I must say that I had understood it that it wasn't
6 a matter of you being given a formal notice of completion of disclosure,
7 but in this case disclosure was complete except for one matter, and that
8 one matter was provided on the 3rd of June. I had myself been of the view
9 that the time period would run from then.
10 I don't immediately see anything in the Rule that would suggest
11 that it wouldn't run until you received a notification that the disclosure
12 had been completed.
13 MR. CEPAROVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, we were not in a
14 position to know when they started running, because before the 16th of
15 June, the Prosecution had not informed us that they had submitted
16 supportive materials. And only in that letter, they informed us that they
17 did it on the 3rd of June. They could have informed us that they had done
18 it two months before that, which means that our deadline would have
20 I'm saying this because the supporting materials were not
21 delivered to us in one go. It was done successively. It was only on our
22 insistence that you made a ruling on the 26th of May and ordered the
23 Prosecutor to inform us as to when their obligation was finally met, and
24 this was done on the part of the Prosecution on the 16th of June. And it
25 was on that day that we learned that the Prosecution would cease to submit
1 any further supporting materials, and that is why we believed that the
2 time for objection against this would start running on that date.
3 JUDGE PARKER: Would you please remind me, am I correct in my
4 recollection that the only outstanding matter was an English language
5 translation of a document that you already had in Serbo-Croatian, or the
6 other way around?
7 MR. CEPAROVIC: [Interpretation] It was the other way around.
8 JUDGE PARKER: Well, surely you knew when you got that
9 Serbo-Croatian translation that that then was the completion of the
10 disclosure process.
11 MR. CEPAROVIC: [Interpretation] No, we didn't know it,
12 Your Honour, because the Prosecution had failed to inform us of that.
13 Since documents were sent to us in batches. It was our position that
14 there would be something else sent. That is what we assumed, and that is
15 why we asked you, Your Honours, to make a ruling to order the Prosecution
16 to inform us as to when we actually receive the last batch of the
17 supporting materials.
18 JUDGE PARKER: Is there a reason why you couldn't look at the
19 document and see that you had the complete document?
20 MR. CEPAROVIC: [Interpretation] In the meantime, we had an
21 interview with the Prosecutor. We were preparing for that interview, and
22 the Croatian translation was very important to us, this interview that
23 General Markac with the Prosecution during the investigation. This would
24 serve for our client to be informed about the contents of the interview.
25 He could not do anything before he received the Croatian translation of
1 the transcript, and as soon as he received that, he could prepare himself
2 for the interview with the Prosecution that has taken place in the
4 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you. Mr. Prodanovic, do you have any view on
5 this matter?
6 MR. PRODANOVIC: [Interpretation] The position of this Defence team
7 is identical to the position put forward by my colleague Ceparovic.
8 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you. Mr. Ierace.
9 MR. IERACE: Your Honour, I met with the -- both counsel for the
10 Defence in relation to Mr. Markac on Thursday, the 10th of June, and they
11 were informed at that point personally that disclosure was complete. They
12 asked that we confirm it in writing, and we did. I might indicate,
13 though, Your Honour, that for the part of the Prosecution, we don't take
14 any particular position in relation to the application by the Defence.
15 JUDGE PARKER: You mean you're happy for me on this occasion to
16 take the, what was it, the 15th --
17 MR. IERACE: 16th.
18 JUDGE PARKER: -- 16th as the date.
19 MR. IERACE: Yes.
20 JUDGE PARKER: Well, that's a very graceful position, Mr. Ierace.
21 You have one good success today. 16th of July becomes the date.
22 Well, the two matters that I was aware of was both to ensure that
23 everybody agreed that disclosure was complete and to be sure about the
24 date by which preliminary motions would have to be filed. Well, that date
25 is now the 16th of July.
12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and
13 English transcripts.
1 I'm not aware of any other pending motions. Are there any that
2 have escaped my attention? It seems to be none. Good.
3 Perhaps counsel for each accused could tell me whether there is
4 any matter which either accused would like to raise concerning matters of
5 their health or the conditions of their detention.
6 MR. PRODANOVIC: [Interpretation] Mr. Ivan Cermak, although his
7 health is somewhat impaired of which the -- Your Honour has been informed,
8 currently doesn't have any health problems, nor he complains in any way
9 about the conditions in the Detention Unit.
10 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you, Mr. Prodanovic.
11 Yes, Mr. Ceparovic.
12 MR. CEPAROVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, Mr. Markac does not
13 have any objections to the treatment that he's receiving in the Detention
14 Unit. However, he has serious health problems due to his high blood sugar
15 level, which is as high as 22, despite the medication that he has
16 received. This is at the limit which seriously threatens his life. And
17 if you wish, he can inform you of the details of his health condition.
18 What I would like to point out, that even with the highest --
19 highest doses of medication, he can lower his blood sugar level to 12 or
20 13. And this is what we consider a serious health problem, and I believe
21 that in the future we will have to consider a different medical treatment
22 for our client.
23 If you so wish, the general may give you some details of his
24 health condition at the moment.
25 JUDGE PARKER: I really don't think I need to trouble your client,
1 Mr. Ceparovic. The condition is known, and it's under medical observation
2 and treatment, and clearly, if there is a matter that concerns your
3 client, it should be taken up with the doctor that's managing his
4 treatment, and those levels which you quote are matters that could be
5 raised with the doctor if your client feels that there should be some
6 increase of the present medication or change in the medication that he's
7 receiving. I don't think it would help anybody for him to explain it to
8 me. He'd better explain it to the doctor.
9 MR. CEPAROVIC: [Interpretation] I agree, Your Honour.
10 JUDGE PARKER: Well, I am grateful for you all to have come today.
11 That completes the requirements of the Rules, and we're now about to get
12 under way in the formal steps toward readying the evidence in the case for
13 trial, and we'll be monitoring that as soon as we get past the 16th of
15 Mr. Ierace.
16 MR. IERACE: Your Honour, might I bring one matter to your
17 attention, which is that the Defence for General Markac has activated what
18 used to be called reciprocal disclosure pursuant to Rule 66(B), and I
19 understand from the Defence that in due course they will outline the
20 categories of material which they wish to inspect pursuant to that Rule.
21 Thank you.
22 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you. Well, that being so, we will adjourn
23 now. Thank you all.
24 --- Whereupon the Status Conference adjourned
25 at 2.59 p.m.