1 Monday, 19 November 2007
2 [Rule 77.1 Hearing]
3 [Open session]
4 [The accused entered court]
5 --- Upon commencing at 2.20 p.m.
6 JUDGE AGIUS: Good afternoon. Madam Registrar, if you could call
7 the case, please.
8 THE REGISTRAR: Good afternoon, Your Honours. This is the case
9 number, IT-05-88-R77.1-T in the contempt case of Dragan Jokic.
10 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you.
11 For the record, the accused is present, and he is being duly
12 assisted as per a decision of the -- the Registrar by Madam
13 Branislava Isailovic, who is also present.
14 Mr. Jokic, I just want a confirmation from you that you can follow
15 the proceedings, that you are able to follow the proceedings in your own
17 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I'm able to follow.
18 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. I thank you.
19 So these are contempt proceedings, and they follow pursuant to our
20 1st November order in lieu of indictment on contempt concerning the
21 present accused, Dragan Nikolic -- Dragan Jokic, born on the 20th of
22 August, 1957, who is being charged that on two occasions during the
23 proceedings in the trial the Prosecutor versus Vujadin Popovic et al.; and
24 namely, on the 31st of October and on the 1st of November, 2007 being
25 called to testify before that Trial Chamber, he knowingly and willfully
1 interfered with the administration of -- of justice by contumaciously
2 refusing to testify contrary to what is provided in Rule 77(A)(i) of the
4 I'll read to you what is stated in Rule 77(A)(i) of the Rules,
5 Mr. Jokic, and then I will ask you how you wish to plead to this charge of
6 contempt of court.
7 Rule 77 of the Rules of Procedure and Evidence of this Tribunal,
8 in paragraph (A)(i) states that: "The Tribunal in the exercise of its
9 inherent power may hold in contempt those who knowingly and wilfully
10 interfere with its administration of justice, including any person who
11 being a witness before a Chamber, contumaciously refuses or fails to
12 answer a question."
13 This is the charge that is being brought against you. How do you
14 wish to plead to this charge? Guilty or not guilty, Mr. Jokic?
15 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I plead not guilty.
16 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. Thank you.
17 And we can therefore proceed from there. The first thing that we
18 will do is to enter -- and Madam Registrar, you are being charged with --
19 with doing this -- enter into the records of the case the relative parts
20 from the transcript of the sittings of the 31st October and 1st November
21 2007 in the records of this case.
22 Ms. Isailovic.
23 MS. ISAILOVIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honour and
24 Judges. Thank you for giving me the floor.
25 As counsel for Mr. Jokic, I would like to say that Mr. Jokic, who
1 just pleaded not guilty, would like to ask for some time in order to
2 prepare for his defence. According to the scheduling order, I did not
3 obtain enough information yet. I only have the scheduling order, and I
4 believed that it was just to enter a plea that the scheduling order was
5 decided. And so today I'm ready to give you some elements regarding how
6 Defence could prepare its case, regarding the time required, for example.
7 And then I would like to obtain a ruling from you on this. And, of
8 course, I will abide by your decision.
9 JUDGE AGIUS: What time frame did you have in mind?
10 MS. ISAILOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I -- if possible, I
11 would at least like to obtain three weeks. As you know, I depend from
12 OLAD and from the Tribunal's services for a number of steps that are
13 required. In the meanwhile, waiting for this schedule -- this hearing,
14 I've already started a few steps in order to make the time required as
15 short as possible.
16 To support my request for additional time, I would like to tell
17 you that I believe I may bring one or two witnesses. I would like also to
18 collect information according to Article 92 bis -- under Rule 92 bis, but
19 I need some time for translation and certification, because this
20 unfortunately might not save a great amount of time.
21 But I've also planned to have a viva voce witness, as well as an
22 expert witness. I need to collect a few documents. And, of course, I
23 need some of these documents to be translated. Some of these documents
24 are already in English, in an official language of this Tribunal, so given
25 the experience I already have with these proceedings and the
1 interpretation services, I believe that the minimum time required is three
2 weeks. Possibly more. I hope that three weeks would be enough.
3 JUDGE AGIUS: What will be the date three weeks from now?
4 [Trial Chamber confers]
5 JUDGE AGIUS: So the position is as follows, Ms. Isailovic: The
6 next hearing will be in three weeks from today, and that will be the 10th
7 of -- of December, at 3.00 in the afternoon. The courtroom will be
8 announced -- will be identified later, whether it's Courtroom I, II, or
9 III. I -- I can't tell you from now.
10 But on that day, we are not going to have a Status Conference. We
11 are going to have a hearing, in a sense that if you have witnesses, we
12 will hear those witnesses on that -- on that day. If there are
13 preliminary pleas of any sort, we will hear them on that day.
14 So for that purpose, in order for us to be prepared and for
15 everyone to be prepared, we would kindly -- kindly ask you that within a
16 week from today - that's today week - end of business, which would be 4.00
17 or something like that, you will inform us formally by means of a filing
18 of any witnesses that you would like to produce. You should be able to --
19 to do that within a week from today, because you have ample time to
20 consult with your client between now and -- and then. All right?
21 And also give us notification, specific notification of any plea
22 that may -- may come to your mind. Although, I don't really see any at
23 the -- for the time being. But in any case, we are giving you this
24 opportunity, should it occur to your mind.
25 So a week from today, this filing. And then three weeks from
1 today, we will have a hearing, a sitting.
2 MS. ISAILOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, if I may ask for just
3 a little arrangement over this postponement. In the meanwhile, waiting
4 for this hearing I've planned for a few things I had to do, and on Monday,
5 the 26th, I will be on assignment to collect these testimonies and to be
6 absolutely sure that these witnesses will come, either one or two
8 Regarding the expert, I'm sure that she will be there. She's
9 already been appointed. And she will start working as -- as of tomorrow
10 on all this.
11 But if you could please postpone by two days and maybe allow me
12 for Wednesday, the 28th as a deadline. I don't have a case manager. I'm
13 doing the work all by myself, and which is why I need some additional time
14 in order to technically organise myself. So filing the submission -- I
15 have to file the submission, write the submission, and file it after my
16 assignment. So if I could please be allowed to file the submission on
17 November 28 rather than November 26.
18 [Trial Chamber confers]
19 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Okay. So we -- instead of the 26th, you will
20 have up to the 28th to make the filing.
21 MS. ISAILOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.
22 So I have a question. I've looked at the procedure. I did not
23 obtain a great number of elements, because the case law of this Tribunal
24 was a bit different from what we have here in court today. Maybe I need
25 to do the same thing as in a regular procedure provided for in the 65
1 ter -- in Rule 65 ter (G), or do I need to do something different? Having
2 a 65 ter list of witness and the summary of facts, some kind of a
3 pre-trial brief with the Defence case? Do you need this kind of
4 submission or not?
5 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Let -- let me put it like this: We cannot
6 dispense of -- with certain -- at least, a certain measure of formality,
7 because that seems to be of the essence. However, this is not a big case.
8 It's -- it's a case that can be disposed of within a relatively short
9 time. What you would need to give us on the 28th is the list of witnesses
10 that you intend to call; namely, name, a very brief summary of what you
11 intend to prove by means of this witness, more or less what you have in
12 paragraph (G), as you said, but, again, not everything that you find there
13 applies or would apply to -- to -- to this witness. More or less we can
14 guess what we are talking about. So in actual fact all we would need to
15 know is whether both these witnesses would be able to testify in one day
16 or whether you would require more than one day, in which case we would
17 need to identify another day on which we -- we would sit.
18 If there are any exhibits that you are already aware of, of
19 course, you will indicate them. But that's about it. I don't think you
20 need to go much beyond this elementary or rudimentary formality.
21 Okay? All right.
22 So I think we can ...
23 [Trial Chamber confers]
24 JUDGE AGIUS: I'm just being reminded that you might wish,
25 although in such -- such a small case this may not be exactly the case,
1 but you may -- you might wish to make an opening statement, if you so
2 desire. I don't think it is really necessary, but if -- if you wish to
3 do -- to make an opening statement, you're free to make one.
4 MS. ISAILOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, regarding this
5 opening statement, I can tell you right away that there will probably --
6 there won't be an opening statement, but I do need some time for a closing
7 argument. I would like to make a closing argument.
8 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. So ...
9 [Trial Chamber confers]
10 JUDGE AGIUS: All right. So that brings today's sitting to an
11 end. The registrar is to make arrangements for the next hearing to be
12 held on the 10th of December at 3.00 in the afternoon.
13 Thank you.
14 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 2.41 p.m.,
15 to be reconvened on Monday the 10th day of
16 December, 2007, at 3.00 p.m.