1 Wednesday, 22 September 2010
2 [Initial Appearance]
3 [Open session]
4 [The accused entered court]
5 --- Upon commencing at 9.01 a.m.
6 JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Good morning, ladies and
7 gentlemen. Registrar, could you call the case, please.
8 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning, Your Honour. This is case number
9 IT-98-32/1-R77.2, the Prosecutor versus Jelena Rasic.
10 JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Thank you. Could we have the
11 appearances, please. Mr. Prosecutor.
12 MR. ROGERS: Yes. Good morning, Your Honour. Good morning to my
13 colleagues in the courtroom. Paul Rogers appearing on behalf of the
14 Prosecution, together with my learned friend Mr. Kyle Wood and our
15 Case Manager today, Ms. Jasmina Bosnjakovic.
16 JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Thank you. For Ms. Rasic.
17 MS. TAPUSKOVIC: Good morning, Your Honours. My name is
18 Mira Tapuskovic. I'm the attorney-at-law from Belgrade. Today I'm going
19 to represent as duty counsel Jelena Rasic during Initial Appearance.
20 Thank you.
21 JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Thank you.
22 Mrs. Rasic, can you hear the proceedings in a language you
24 THE ACCUSED: [Microphone not activated]
25 JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] I believe the microphone wasn't
1 on. I'm going to ask you repeat so that this is on the transcript.
2 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I had trouble finding the channel
3 with Serbian interpretation, but now it's fine. Thank you.
4 JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Thank you. Please tell me if you
5 have any other problem, and don't hesitate to let me know about it if you
7 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you.
8 JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] This is Mrs. Jelena Rasic's
9 Initial Appearance according to Rule 62 of the Rules of Procedure and
10 Evidence of the ICTY. The indictment against Mrs. Rasic has been
11 examined and confirmed by a Judge of this Tribunal on the 26th of August,
12 2010. This case has been assigned to a Trial Chamber on the
13 16th of September, 2010, and since the Judges sitting on this Chamber
14 were unable to attend today, I am sitting today as a Duty Judge pursuant
15 to Rule 28 of the Rules of Procedure and Evidence.
16 Mrs. Rasic was transferred to the Tribunal on the 20th
17 of September, 2010.
18 Mrs. Rasic, could you stand up, please, and answer the following
19 questions. Is your microphone on?
20 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] It is.
21 JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Can you give me your first name
22 and last name, please.
23 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Jelena Rasic.
24 JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Your date and place of birth.
25 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] 19th of April, 1983, in Sibenik,
2 JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Mrs. Rasic, pursuant to the
3 Statute and the Rules of Procedure and Evidence of this Tribunal, you are
4 entitled to remain silent throughout the entire proceedings. A duty
5 counsel has been assigned to assist you during this hearing,
6 Mrs. Tapuskovic.
7 Are you satisfied with the counsel that has been assigned?
8 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I am, yes.
9 JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Have you had the indictment in
10 your own language?
11 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I have.
12 JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Did your counsel explain to you
13 what was contained in the indictment and the counts described therein
14 against you?
15 I think you need to repeat your answer.
16 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] She did, yes.
17 JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Mrs. Rasic, do you have any health
18 problems or any other problems relating to your detention?
19 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I don't.
20 JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] You may sit down, Mrs. Rasic.
21 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you.
22 JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] I noted that the indictment had
23 been filed confidentially. Can this indictment be made public? Is
24 anything standing in the way of lifting the confidentiality of this
1 MR. ROGERS: Your Honour, no. There's -- there's nothing
2 standing in the way of removing the confidentiality on this indictment.
3 Indeed, it should be made public. Your Honour will note the -- within it
4 the references to X and Y. My learned friend and her client know who
5 those individuals are. There's no need for them to be named or mentioned
6 in public for reasons which Your Honour and my learned friends are aware.
7 JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] And these have already been
8 identified for the purposes of the Tribunal.
9 Mrs. Tapuskovic.
10 MS. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I do not oppose the
11 lifting of confidentiality in respect of the indictment. The identity of
12 the witnesses stated in the indictment will be kept confidential by both
13 myself and my client. So I do agree that the confidentiality status be
14 lifted. Thank you.
15 JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Thank you. So if there are no
16 objections, I order the lifting of the confidentiality status of the
18 The accused is entitled to a reading out of the indictment in a
19 language she understands. You can, however, waive this right and accept
20 that a summary of the indictment be read out.
21 Ms. Tapuskovic, does your client wish to have the indictment read
22 out in its entirety?
23 MS. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, since in the course
24 of the two yesterday's visits we went through the indictment twice, my
25 client agrees that the indictment need not be read out in its entirety
1 but only in summary. Thank you.
2 JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] We shall therefore have a reading
3 of the summary of the indictment.
4 Madam Registrar, do you have a summary of the indictment?
5 [Trial Chamber and Registrar confer]
6 JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Madam Registrar will read out the
7 summary of the indictment.
8 THE REGISTRAR: Prosecutor versus Rasic, summary of the
10 The indictment alleges that at all material times, Mrs. Rasic was
11 acting as a member of the Milan Lukic Defence --
12 THE INTERPRETER: Can the Registrar please read out slowly for
13 the benefit of the interpreters. The interpreters do not have the text
14 of the summary.
15 THE REGISTRAR: I will. Thank you.
16 Count 1 of the indictment alleges that on -- on or about
17 18th October 2008
18 Bosnia and Herzegovina, and showed Mr. Tabakovic a pre-prepared witness
19 statement for use in the Lukic and Lukic case. Mrs. Rasic asked
20 Mr. Tabakovic if he would sign the statement in exchange for 1.000 euros.
21 Mrs. Rasic promised Mr. Tabakovic more money if he testified in
22 accordance with the statement on behalf of Milan Lukic.
23 On 20th October 2008, Mrs. Rasic met with Mr. Tabakovic who
24 signed multiple copies of the statement. The statement was false, as
25 Mr. Tabakovic had no knowledge of the events described in the statement.
1 Mrs. Rasic gave Mr. Tabakovic 1.000 euros.
2 Count 2 of the indictment alleges that on 18th October 2008
3 Mrs. Rasic showed Mr. Tabakovic two other pre-prepared statements for use
4 in the Lukic and Lukic case. Mrs. Rasic offered Mr. Tabakovic a reward
5 to find other men born in Visegrad to sign these false statements.
6 Mr. Tabakovic agreed to find other men to sign -- to sign the statements.
7 Counts 3 and 4 of the indictment allege that on a date between
8 17th and 24th October 2008, Mr. Tabakovic met with Mr. X and Mr. Y and
9 asked each man whether he would be willing to -- to sign a statement in
10 exchange for payment of 1.000 euros. Both agreed to sign a statement
11 knowing that he would be providing a false statement.
12 On 23rd October 2008, Mr. Tabakovic introduced Mr. X and Mr. Y to
13 it Mr. -- to Mrs. Rasic. Mr. X and Mr. Y signed the statements and each
14 received 1.000 euros.
15 Count 5 of the indictment alleges that between 23rd October and
16 6 December 2008
17 the false statements signed by Mr. Tabakovic, Mr. X and Mr. Y.
18 THE INTERPRETER: Please slow down.
19 THE REGISTRAR: Mrs. Rasic gave Mr. Tabakovic three unsigned
20 revised statements and asked him to sign his own statement and to ask
21 Mr. X and Mr. Y to sign theirs. Each statement was false. All three
22 statements, dated 5 December 2008
23 Mrs. Rasic.
24 On 20th January 2009, lead counsel for Milan Lukic gave copies of
25 the signed 5th December 2008 statements to the Prosecution.
1 As a result of the allegations contained in the indictment,
2 Mrs. Rasic is charged with five counts of contempt of the Tribunal
3 punishable under this Tribunal's inherent powers and Rule 77(A) of the
4 Rules for knowingly and wilfully interfering with the administration of
6 JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Thank you, Registrar.
7 We shall now move on to the arguments relating to the counts of
8 the indictment.
9 Pursuant to Rule 62(A)(iii) of the Rules of Procedure and
10 Evidence of the Tribunal, you may choose to plead guilty or not guilty as
11 regards each count of the indictment. You may do so right now, or you
12 may do so within 30 days as of today. If you do not plead either way
13 today or during an appearance at a later stage, the Trial Chamber will
14 note on your behalf that this amounts to a plea of not guilty.
15 Ms. Tapuskovic, does your client wish to plead today or at a
16 later stage?
17 MS. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, yes, she would like
18 to plead today.
19 JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Thank you.
20 Mrs. Rasic, could you stand up, please. Can you tell us what you
21 are pleading. Are you pleading guilty or not guilty?
22 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I plead not guilty on
23 all -- all the counts of the indictment.
24 JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Thank you. You may sit down.
25 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you.
1 JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Madam Registrar, can you note that
2 Mrs. Rasic has pleaded not guilty on each count of the indictment.
3 I must now remind the Prosecutor that pursuant to Rule 66(A)(i)
4 of the Rules of Procedure and Evidence, he must disclose to the Defence
5 within 30 days in a language that the accused understands a copy of all
6 the annexes of the indictment when this has been confirmed, as well as
7 all the prior statements of the accused's that have been received.
8 I would also like to remind the Defence that once it has received
9 all these documents, it will have 30 days to file its preliminary
11 The Trial Chamber which is seized of this case will set the date
12 for our next hearing, and you will be advised in due course.
13 Are there any questions which either party wishes to raise before
14 we adjourn for today?
15 MR. ROGERS: Your Honours, the only matter that I would just
16 raise is I think that the -- under the Rules the time limit relating to
17 the provision of -- oh, yes. The filing of preliminary motions - I'm
18 sorry - doesn't run until permanent counsel has been assigned to
19 Ms. Rasic under Rule 72(A)(iv), and it's 10 days, not 30 days, because
20 under Rule 77 the time limits were truncated for contempt cases, and so
21 the 30-day time limits in many of the aspects of the Rules have been
22 replaced with a 10-day time limit. But so far as the provision of
23 materials to the Defence is concerned, we have already provided most of
24 it. There is a small amount that -- that will be forthcoming within the
25 next ten days. So all of that will be complied with in any event.
1 JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Mrs. Rasic is entitled to choose a
2 permanent counsel or to represent herself, and she has 30 days in which
3 to do this. In addition, the deadline I mentioned only runs once a
4 permanent counsel has been assigned.
5 Mrs. Tapuskovic.
6 MS. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. I would
7 only like to confirm what my learned friend Mr. Rogers stated. Yesterday
8 in my contacts with the Prosecution, I received most of the supporting
9 material accompanying the indictment, and we agreed that the remainder
10 would be disclosed to me or, rather, to another Defence counsel should
11 Ms. Rasic choose another one within the -- in the course of the next
12 couple of days, and we agreed that Ms. Rasic would receive her copy of
13 the supporting material now. Thank you.
14 JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Thank you very much.
15 Are there any further questions?
16 If there are no further questions, the court stands adjourned for
18 --- Whereupon the Initial Appearance adjourned
19 at 9.22 a.m.