1 Thursday, 3 March 2005
2 [Initial Appearance]
3 [Open session]
4 [The accused entered court]
5 --- Upon commencing at 8.03 a.m.
6 JUDGE KWON: Good morning, everybody. Would the registrar please
7 call the case.
8 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning, Your Honour. This is Case Number
9 IT-04-83-I, the Prosecutor against Rasim Delic.
10 JUDGE KWON: Thank you.
11 May I have the appearances.
12 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: Good morning, Your Honour. The Prosecution
13 is represented by trial attorney Daryl Mundis and my name is Hildegard
15 JUDGE KWON: Thank you.
16 For the Defence, please.
17 MR. BOURGON: Good morning, Your Honour. Representing General
18 Delic this morning, Stephane Bourgon, lawyer from Montreal, Canada, and I
19 am accompanied this morning, Your Honour, by Mr. Asim Crnalic and Mrs.
20 Vedrana Residovic. As indicated yesterday, I wish to be accompanied by
21 Mr. Crnalic and Ms. Residovic, and I am ready to make the necessary
22 application in this regard at your convenience, Your Honour.
23 JUDGE KWON: So as long as you will represent the Defence and the
24 accused today and Mr. Crnalic is here as a sort of assistant to you, I
25 don't see any problem.
1 MR. BOURGON: Thank you very much, Your Honour. If I may just
2 provide you with a little background as to why Mr. Crnalic is here this
3 morning. I believe that it is important to make this on the record and I
4 would like to do this in closed session, with your permission, Your
6 JUDGE KWON: We'll go into private session.
7 [Private session]
6 [Open session]
7 THE REGISTRAR: We are in open session.
8 JUDGE KWON: Mr. Delic, can you hear the proceedings in a
9 language that you understand?
10 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honour, yes, I can.
11 JUDGE KWON: If you could rise and identify yourself with your
12 full name and date of birth.
13 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honour, my name is Rasim
14 Delic. I was born on 4th February, 1949, at Celic in Bosnia and
16 JUDGE KWON: Which is in Lopare municipality?
17 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honour, prior to the war this
18 was Lopare municipality; now it is Celic municipality. When I was born
19 there it was Celic municipality. Lopare is now in Republika Srpska and
20 Celic is in the Federation; that's why it's the Celic municipality now.
21 JUDGE KWON: Thank you for the clarification.
22 You may sit now, please.
23 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you.
24 JUDGE KWON: First of all, I'd like to apologise to everybody
25 here for holding a hearing at this early time of the day, in particular
1 given the heavy snow which had fallen yesterday; however, I was told that
2 since all the courtrooms are fully booked for the whole week with ongoing
3 trials, this was the only option for having an initial appearance
5 This proceeding is the initial appearance of Mr. Rasim Delic
6 pursuant to Rule 62 of the Rules of Procedure and Evidence of the
7 International Tribunal. The indictment against the accused was reviewed
8 and confirmed by a permanent Judge of this Tribunal on 16th of February,
9 2005, and Mr. Delic was transferred to The Hague on 28th of February.
10 This case was assigned to Trial Chamber III by the order of the President
11 of the Tribunal, and I was assigned as the Pre-Trial Judge by the
12 Chamber. I am Judge Kwon.
13 The first thing I have to do is to make certain that accused
14 understands the indictment against him.
15 Mr. Bourgon, has your client received the client in his own
17 MR. BOURGON: Thank you, Your Honour. I can confirm this morning
18 that I have met with General Delic on two occasions; that General Delic
19 has received a copy of the indictment in his language; that General Delic
20 understands the nature of the charges laid against him; and I have also
21 explained to General Delic the contents of the indictment as well as the
22 procedure which will be followed this morning and subsequently. Thank
23 you, Your Honour.
24 JUDGE KWON: Thank you, Mr. Bourgon.
25 The next step is then -- well, before that, it is the right of
1 the accused to have the indictment read out in full in a language he
3 Mr. Bourgon, does your client wish to have the indictment read
4 out in full?
5 MR. BOURGON: Thank you, Your Honour. After discussing the
6 matter with General Delic, he waives his right to have the indictment
7 read. I take this opportunity, Your Honour, to clarify one issue which
8 maybe was not put on the record up until now, which is the fact that
9 General Delic surrendered at the first -- to the first opportunity, as
10 soon as he was informed of the indictment ever existing. Thank you, Your
12 JUDGE KWON: Thank you, Mr. Bourgon.
13 Then the next step is then entry of a plea to the charges of the
14 indictment. The accused may enter a plea within 30 days of the initial
15 appearance, but he may enter a plea at the time of initial appearance if
16 he so wishes.
17 Mr. Bourgon, does your client wish to plead today or do it later?
18 MR. BOURGON: Thank you, Your Honour. I have discussed the
19 matter with General Delic and he is ready to enter a plea at this time on
20 the four charges included in the indictment. Thank you, Your Honour.
21 JUDGE KWON: Very well.
22 Then, Mr. Delic, if you could rise and please plead to each
23 count of the indictment, which I will put to you. In entering a plea,
24 please confine your answer to either guilty or not guilty.
25 Count 1 of the indictment charges you in relation to the events
1 at Maline or Bikosi in 1993 and at Manjaca camp in 1995 with murder as a
2 violation of the laws or customs of war, punishable under Article 3 and
3 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal and recognised by Articles 3(1)(A) of
4 the Geneva Conventions. How do you plead to this count?
5 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honour, not guilty.
6 JUDGE KWON: Very well.
7 Count 2 charges you in relation to the same events with cruel
8 treatment as a violation of the laws and customs of war, punishable under
9 Article 3 and 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal and recognised by
10 Articles 3(1)(A) of the Geneva Conventions. Do you plead guilty or not
12 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.
13 JUDGE KWON: Count 3 charges you in relation to what happened to
14 three women in Kamenica camp in September 1995 with rape as a violation
15 of the laws or customs of war, punishable under Article 3 and 7(3) of the
16 Statute of the Tribunal. How do you plead?
17 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.
18 JUDGE KWON: And finally, Count 4 charges you in relation to the
19 same matter with cruel treatment as a violation of the laws or customs of
20 war, punishable under Article 3 and 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal
21 and recognised by Articles 3(1)(A) of the Geneva Conventions. How do you
22 plead, Mr. Delic?
23 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honour, not guilty.
24 JUDGE KWON: Thank you. You may now sit down.
25 I would like to ask the registrar to note that Mr. Delic has
1 pleaded not guilty to all the counts of the indictment.
2 Mrs. Uertz-Retzlaff, I must remind the Prosecution now of its
3 duty pursuant to Rule 66(A)(1) to make available within 30 days from now
4 to the Defence all the supporting material which accompanied the
5 indictment when confirmation was sought as well as prior statements
6 obtained by the Prosecution from the accused in a language which the
7 accused understands. Is there any problem?
8 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: No, there's no problem. Thank you, Your
10 JUDGE KWON: Then let me now turn to the Defence. I am hereby
11 informing the Defence that pursuant to Rule 72(A) it will have a 30-day
12 period for filing any preliminary motions once it has received all the
13 supporting materials in accordance with Rule 66(A)(i). You understand
15 MR. BOURGON: Thank you, Your Honour, the Defence --
16 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone for the counsel.
17 JUDGE KWON: Your microphone, please.
18 MR. BOURGON: Sorry, Your Honour. The Defence understands and
19 accepts its duties and responsibilities pursuant to the Rules. Thank
20 you, Your Honour.
21 JUDGE KWON: Thank you.
22 I will have a Status Conference within approximately four months'
23 time from now. I will let the parties be informed in due course. In the
24 meantime, pursuant to Rule 65 ter, the Pre-Trial Judge may be assisted in
25 the performance of his duties by the Senior Legal Officer of the Chamber.
1 In this regard, I believe the Senior Legal Officer will schedule a
2 meeting with the parties after the time period for the Rule 66(A)(i)
3 disclosure and before the date of the next Status Conference in due
4 course in due manner.
5 I think I've dealt with all the items I've noted down for today's
6 agenda. Is there anything the parties wish to raise now? Mr. Bourgon.
7 MR. BOURGON: Thank you, Your Honour. As a preliminary matter,
8 Your Honour, I would like to confirm that General Delic since his arrival
9 at the United Nations Detention Unit has been treated well and that he
10 has no complaint in this regard. However, there is one issue I wish to
11 raise on behalf of General Delic concerning his right to be represented
12 by counsel of his choice before the International Tribunal, and to this
13 end I would like to move into closed session and make some observations,
14 Your Honour.
15 JUDGE KWON: For the purpose of putting it on record?
16 MR. BOURGON: Yes, Your Honour.
17 JUDGE KWON: Very well. We'll go into private session.
18 [Private session]
11 Page 9 redacted. Private session.
11 [Open session]
12 THE REGISTRAR: We are in open session.
13 JUDGE KWON: Is there anything for the Prosecution to raise at
14 this moment?
15 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: No, Your Honour, thank you.
16 JUDGE KWON: Mr. Delic, apart from what is said by Mr. Bourgon,
17 is there anything you would like to raise now?
18 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honour, as Mr. Bourgon has
19 already stated, I would like be assigned a permanent counsel as soon as
20 possible. I have stated my opinion in that regard; I believe there is no
21 conflict of interest here. In the interest of justice, I believe this
22 problem should be solved as soon as possible.
23 As for the rest, I have been treated well and I have nothing to
24 comment upon in that sense.
25 JUDGE KWON: Is the problem fixed? Yes, its seems to be okay.
1 Yes, please go on, Mr. Delic.
2 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I have finished.
3 JUDGE KWON: Thank you, Mr. Delic.
4 I think -- or I believe the registrar and the whole Tribunal will
5 do its best and make sure that there will be no -- any disadvantage on
6 the part of the accused in relation to the counsel issue.
7 The hearing is now adjourned.
8 --- Whereupon the Initial Appearance
9 adjourned at 8.24 a.m.