1 Friday, 7 March 2008
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 --- Upon commencing at 9.02 a.m.
5 JUDGE MOLOTO: Good morning to everybody in and around the
7 Madam Registrar, could you please call the case.
8 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning, Your Honours. Good morning everyone
9 in the courtroom. This is case number IT-04-83-T, the Prosecutor versus
10 Rasim Delic.
11 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.
12 Could we have the appearances for today, starting with the
14 MR. MUNDIS: Thank you, Mr. President.
15 Good morning, Your Honours, Counsel, and everyone in and around
16 the courtroom. Daryl Mundis and Aditya Menon for the Prosecution,
17 assisted today by Anna Svensson and our case manager, Alma Imamovic.
18 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.
19 And for the Defence.
20 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Good morning, Your Honours. Good
21 morning to the learned friends from the OTP, to everyone in and around the
22 courtroom. Vasvija Vidovic and Nicholas Robson for the Defence of General
23 Delic, and Lana Deljkic, legal assistant.
24 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much, Madam Vidovic.
25 Before we call in the witness, the Trial Chamber would like to
1 deliver an oral decision on one of the Prosecution motions.
2 The Trial Chamber now renders its decision on Prosecution motion
3 for leave to amend Exhibit 106. The motion was filed on the 25th of
4 February, 2008, and the Defence response was on the 3rd of March, 2008.
5 Exhibit 106 was admitted into evidence during the testimony of
6 Witness PW-2 on 17th July 2007. It consists of the front page and page
7 25, page 24 in the English version, of a booklet entitled"Instructions to
8 the Muslim Fighter, Zenica 1993." Page 25 contains the first two
9 paragraphs of the chapter on prisoners of war.
10 The Prosecution argues that due to an inadvertent omission, the
11 third and final paragraph of such chapter was not included when it moved
12 for the admission of the document into evidence. It now seeks for the
13 amendment of Exhibit 106 to include page 26, which is page 25 in the
14 English version, of the booklet.
15 The Defence opposes the Prosecution motion, arguing that it was
16 the clear and explicit intention of the Trial Chamber to admit only those
17 two paragraphs.
18 According to Rule 89(c) and (d), a Chamber has the discretion to
19 admit: "Any relevant evidence which it deems to have probative value," and
20 to exclude any evidence "if its probative value is substantially
21 outweighed by the need to ensure a fair trial."
22 Furthermore, on the 24th of July, 2007, the Trial Chamber adopted
23 guidelines on the admission and presentation of evidence and conduct of
24 counsel in court. Paragraph 20 of those guidelines explicitly refers to
25 the admission of lengthy documents, such as books, and requests each
1 party "to specify which portions of the document it seeks to have
3 The Trial Chamber recalls that during the hearing of the 17th July
4 2007, the Prosecution sought to admit the entire booklet "Instructions to
5 the Muslim Fighter," after showing the front page to Witness PW-2. The
6 Defence objected to the admission of such a lengthy document without its
7 contents being commented on by the witness. The witness was therefore
8 shown page 25 of the B/C/S version and was able to comment on the two
9 paragraphs contained therein. The witness was familiar with the content
10 of the first paragraph, but had no recollection at all with regard to the
11 second paragraph. It is found at page 737 of the transcript, lines 22 to
13 When the Prosecution moved again for the admission into evidence
14 of the entire booklet, the Defence objected, arguing that only those
15 paragraphs on which the witness had commented should be admitted into
16 evidence. The Prosecution heard no objections, and the Trial Chamber
17 admitted into evidence only the pages that were shown to the witness.
18 It is clear from the transcript that only the two paragraphs
19 contained in page 25 of the B/C/S version were put to the witness, whereas
20 no reference is made to the third and final paragraph, nor to page 26 of
21 the B/C/S version, containing the third and final paragraph.
22 The Trial Chamber finds that the Prosecution failed to the
23 indicate on what grounds, rather than completion of the chapter on
24 prisoners of war, the proposed additional paragraph should be admitted
25 into evidence. The Trial Chamber therefore denies the Prosecution motion
1 for leave to amend Exhibit 106, unless the paragraph in question is
2 introduced through a witness.
3 Madam Vidovic.
4 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, the Defence calls
5 Witness Enver Adilovic.
6 [The witness entered court]
7 JUDGE MOLOTO: May the witness please make the declaration.
8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will speak
9 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
10 WITNESS: ENVER ADILOVIC
11 [The witness answered through interpreter]
12 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.
13 Good morning to you, sir, and you may be seated.
14 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.
15 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Robson, I see you itching to go.
16 MR. ROBSON: That's right, Your Honour.
17 Good morning.
18 JUDGE MOLOTO: Good morning to you.
19 Examination by Mr. Robson:
20 Q. Good morning, Mr. Adilovic. Could you state your full name for
21 the record, please?
22 A. My name is Enver Adilovic.
23 Q. What is your date and place of birth?
24 A. I was born on the 10th of January, 1960, in the village of Kljaci,
25 Travnik Municipality.
1 Q. Could you tell the Trial Chamber, what is your ethnicity?
2 A. Muslim.
3 Q. And are you working now? Are you in employment?
4 A. No, I'm retired.
5 MR. ROBSON: My colleague's just pointed out your answer to my
6 question about your ethnicity.
7 Q. By ethnic group, what group are you a member of?
8 A. I'm a Bosniak, and I am a Muslim by religion.
9 Q. And before the war, what did you do for a living, if anything?
10 A. I worked in Vitez --
11 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreter didn't catch the name of the
13 MR. ROBSON:
14 Q. Could you just repeat the name of the company that you worked for
15 in Vitez?
16 A. Sintevit Company in Vitez.
17 Q. And what did you do for a living for that company?
18 A. I was a driver.
19 Q. Could you tell the Trial Chamber where you were living at the
20 start of the war in Bosnia and Herzegovina?
21 A. I lived in Vitez, in the hamlet of Novaci.
22 Q. And when the war started in Bosnia and Herzegovina, did you take
23 up any military duties?
24 A. When the war started, I joined the Territorial Defence, and I was
25 the leader of the platoon detachment there. That was the platoon of
1 volunteers in Vitez.
2 Q. And can you tell us approximately when you became the leader of
3 the platoon in Vitez?
4 A. On the 6th of April, 1992.
5 Q. And did you remain in that position, as the leader of the platoon
6 in Vitez, throughout the war, or did there come a time when that position
8 A. I stayed behind in the TO as the platoon commander until the Army
9 of Bosnia-Herzegovina was set up, and then I joined the 7th Muslim Brigade
10 on the 19th of November, 1992.
11 Q. And when you joined the 7th Muslim Brigade in November 1992, did
12 you take up any position within the brigade?
13 A. I was the company commander.
14 Q. Now, I'll come on to that in a moment, but if I can ask you this:
15 From April to November 1992, apart from working for the Territorial
16 Defence in Vitez, did you work for any other military organisation?
17 A. No.
18 MR. ROBSON: Your Honours, can the witness please be shown Exhibit
19 104. I can indicate it's just the B/C/S version that I'm interested in.
20 That's it.
21 Q. Mr. Adilovic, do you --
22 JUDGE MOLOTO: What's going to happen to us who are illiterate in
24 MR. ROBSON: Your Honour, you'll see that there's no need for us
25 to see the English translation.
1 JUDGE MOLOTO: We'll look to you to lead us through.
2 MR. ROBSON: Thank you.
3 Q. Do you see that document on the screen in front of you,
4 Mr. Adilovic?
5 A. I can only see a document with some black marks on it, but I am
6 not able to read any of it.
7 MR. ROBSON: That's better.
8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.
9 MR. ROBSON:
10 Q. Would you agree with me that what we can see there is a document
11 with the heading "Muslimanske Snage" and then a list of names with numbers
12 next to the names; is that right?
13 A. I can't confirm that because I was never a member of the Muslim
14 forces. I don't know who the members of the Muslim forces were, and I
15 can't discuss this document.
16 MR. ROBSON: Your Honours, if we could please turn to page 15 in
17 this document, and the ERN number at the top of the page that we are
18 looking for is 0603-2524. Here it is.
19 If we can scroll down towards the bottom of this page, please.
20 Q. Mr. Adilovic, do you see there an entry on this page at number
21 273? And there we can see a name "Enver ibn Sefik Adilovic."
22 A. I can see that, but I had never been a member of the Muslim
23 forces, and in my view this document is inaccurate.
24 Q. Have you ever at any time used the title "Enver ibn Sefik
25 Adilovic" or have you ever been called by that title?
1 A. Never. I have never used the word "ibn," and I don't use it to
2 this day.
3 Q. What about the name "Sefik"; does that mean anything to you?
4 A. A moment, please. "Sefik," father's name.
5 Q. Did you --
6 JUDGE MOLOTO: Sorry, let's just get it abundantly clear. The
7 transcript says "father's name." Whose father?
8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] My father. My father's name was
10 MR. ROBSON:
11 Q. So during 1992, did you use or did you hear anyone else use or
12 refer to each other by the title "ibn"?
13 A. Nobody in my unit had that title, "ibn."
14 Q. Insofar as this document with the heading "Muslimanske Snage" has
15 what appears to be your name in it, it might be suggested that this
16 document shows that you were a member of the Muslimanske Snage. Do you
17 have any comment on that?
18 A. I told you my comment. I said that I had never been a member of
19 the Muslim forces, and to my mind this document is null and void.
20 JUDGE HARHOFF: Mr. Robson, there is an extension of the
21 indication of the witness's -- or not the witness's, but the name under
22 rubric 273, there's something that looks like an address. Can you explore
23 whether the witness is familiar with that?
24 MR. ROBSON:
25 Q. Mr. Adilovic, do you see, after the words "Enver ibn Sefik
1 Adilovic," there are some additional words? Do those words have any
2 meaning to you?
3 A. Yes, Donja Dubravica, "bb." That was my pre-war address, and it's
5 MR. ROBSON: Your Honour, does that satisfy your question?
6 JUDGE HARHOFF: Well, it certainly shows that the name there was
7 meant to be the witness's name.
8 MR. ROBSON:
9 Q. Mr. Adilovic, I'd like to go back to the 7th Muslim Brigade. Did
10 you join any particular unit within that brigade in November 1992?
11 A. I belonged to the 7th Muslim Brigade -- rather, the 1st Battalion
12 of the 7th Muslim Brigade that was stationed in Travnik.
13 Q. And when you joined the 1st Battalion of the 7th Muslim Brigade,
14 did you take up any position within the brigade?
15 A. I was company commander.
16 Q. And the company that you became the commander of, did it have any
17 particular name, or number, or any other form of identification?
18 A. Right after it was set up, a Krajina company was also formed
19 comprising people who had fled from Krajina, so it was called the Krajina
20 Company. I don't recall the number that it bore, whether it was the 1st,
21 the 2nd or the 3rd, but it didn't really matter to us. I was the
22 commander of the Krajina or the Krajiska Company.
23 Q. As to the 1st Battalion of the 7th Muslim Brigade, can you tell us
24 where the command of the brigade was based?
25 A. The command of the brigade was located in Travnik, right next to
1 the police HQ. That's where the battalion command was.
2 Q. And can you tell us, who was the commander of the 1st Battalion of
3 the 7th Muslim Brigade at that time, if you know?
4 A. Fadil Hadzic.
5 Q. Now, I'm going to ask you a few more questions about the 7th
6 Muslim Brigade. The 1st Battalion was based in Travnik. Where was the
7 actual command of the whole brigade located?
8 JUDGE MOLOTO: I think there's cross-purposes discussion between
9 you and the witness, Mr. Robson. You see, when you look at line 2 of page
10 10, you said:
11 "As to the 1st Battalion of the 7th Muslim Brigade, can you tell
12 us where the command of the brigade was?"
13 I don't know why 1st Battalion was part of that question.
14 MR. ROBSON: You're right, Your Honour.
15 JUDGE MOLOTO: And the answer gave you the command of the brigade,
16 not of the battalion. And now you're asking again for the command of the
18 MR. ROBSON: You're right, it's my mistake, Your Honour. I
19 apologise, and I'll clarify that.
20 Q. I'm sorry, Mr. Adilovic, if I've confused things. You were a
21 member of the 1st Battalion of the 7th Muslim Brigade. Can you tell us
22 where the Command of the 1st Battalion was?
23 A. The Command of the 1st Battalion was in Travnik. It was called
24 "Nas Dom." Upstairs, that's where the command of the 1st Battalion was.
25 Q. And is that the place that you mentioned which was close to the
1 police station?
2 A. Yes, right next to the police station.
3 Q. Okay. Apart from the 1st Battalion, were there any other
4 battalions within the 7th Muslim Brigade?
5 A. There was the 2nd and the 3rd Battalions that were part of the 7th
6 Muslim Brigade.
7 Q. And where was the 2nd Battalion located, if you know? And this is
8 the command I'm talking about.
9 A. It was stationed in Zenica, Bilmiste.
10 Q. And the 3rd Battalion, can you tell us where its command was?
11 A. I can. I can give you the municipality, and that's Kakanj, but I
12 can't give you the name of the exact location.
13 Q. Okay. And above the battalions, if I can ask you about the 7th
14 Muslim Brigade Command. Do you know where the brigade command was
16 A. The brigade command was in Zenica at Bilmiste.
17 Q. So does that mean that the brigade command and the 2nd Battalion
18 Command was located at the same place?
19 A. In the same area, yes.
20 Q. Turning to the zone of responsibility of the first battalion you
21 were a member of, can you tell us where it was?
22 A. The area of responsibility of the 1st Battalion was at Bijelo
23 Bucje, which is at Turbe, close to Travnik.
24 Q. You say it's close to Travnik. Can you tell us approximately how
25 far away Bijelo Bucje is away from Travnik?
1 A. Roughly, 10 to 12 kilometres. I can't be more precise than that.
2 Q. Have you heard of the villages of Mehurici and Maline?
3 A. Yes, because I hail from the Bijeljina Valley and I know the area
4 of Mehurici, Maline, and the general area there.
5 Q. And can you tell us, in which region of Bosnia and Herzegovina are
6 those villages of Mehurici and Maline?
7 A. That's the Bijeljina area, the Biljanska area. As you turn --
8 before turning to Travnik, you go up there towards Rudnik, Han Bila,
9 Mehurici, Bukovica.
10 Q. And just so we're clear, do you know which municipality those
11 villages are in?
12 A. Travnik Municipality.
13 Q. Concerning the zones of responsibility of the three battalions of
14 the 7th Muslim Brigade, the 1st, 2nd and 3rd, did any battalion have a
15 unit located or based in the Bila Valley?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Can you tell us, which was the closest battalion of the 7th Muslim
18 Brigade to the Bila Valley?
19 A. The 1st Battalion.
20 Q. Now, you've told us that the zone of responsibility of the 1st
21 Battalion was Bijelo Bucje. Were you engaged in combat there at all,
22 that's you and your subordinates?
23 A. I was directly there in the defence in the event of an aggressor's
24 attack on the village of Bucje, so I was in the defence. As for combat
25 actions, no, I did not execute any.
1 Q. You've mentioned that you were there in the event of an
2 aggressor's attack. Just so we are clear, which aggressor were you
3 defending against whilst you were at Bijelo Bucje?
4 A. I was defending it from the Chetniks.
5 Q. Are you able to say approximately how long the 1st Battalion was
6 deployed at Bijelo Bucje?
7 A. Would you please repeat your question?
8 Q. You've told us that the 1st Battalion was deployed at Bijelo
9 Bucje. Are you able to say approximately how long the battalion was
10 deployed there?
11 A. At the beginning, when the 7th Muslim Brigade was formed, we took
12 over Bijelo Bucje, and then until the end of December I was there. Then I
13 moved on. After, in 1993, again our area of responsibility was Bijelo
14 Bucje once more. I can't really tell you this precisely, because I was
15 there until April, then I moved to the other side, actually to a different
17 JUDGE MOLOTO: Sir, if I may just interrupt, there's something
18 that I don't understand here.
19 Sir, were you, while you were at Bijelo Bucje, defending against
20 the Chetniks, were you ever engaged in battle with any unit of the
21 Chetniks, defending yourselves?
22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I was only conducting defence.
23 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes, I understand that. My question to you is: In
24 conducting your defence, were you engaged in battle, or what's meant by
25 conducting defence? Let me ask the question: How did you defend your
1 area against the Chetniks?
2 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The Chetniks always tried to carry
3 out attacks to capture the village of Bucje, and so on and so forth, those
4 areas down there, and we, when they attacked, would carry out the
5 defence. And naturally you had these combat actions. We put up
6 resistance so that the Chetniks would not get into Bijelo Bucje and
7 capture Bijelo Bucje.
8 JUDGE MOLOTO: That's better. So you were involved in combat,
9 which is what you were saying you were not involved in a little earlier.
10 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] We did not plan or have any actions
11 that we would embark on an assault when I was in Bijelo Bucje, for us to
12 attack the Chetniks or to take their positions and so on and so forth.
13 Our task was to be on the defence, to keep what was ours, and to keep that
14 from the Chetniks. The Chetniks were trying to capture the village of
15 Bucje and Pulac and so on and other areas, but we rejected those attacks.
16 So while I was there, there was no action on the part of the Army of
17 Bosnia and Herzegovina towards the Chetniks. We would try to repel their
19 JUDGE MOLOTO: I understand perfectly what you are saying, sir.
20 You did not launch any attacks against the Chetniks. You merely
21 defended. But in defending, you do get involved in combat. This is all I
22 wanted to clear.
23 Thank you very much, Mr. Robson. You may proceed.
24 MR. ROBSON:
25 Q. While you were deployed at the lines at Bijelo Bucje, did you see
1 any foreign fighters of Arabic or Turkish origin whilst you were at the
3 A. While I was on the lines in my unit, there were no foreign
4 members. I didn't see them or encounter them anywhere.
5 Q. Now, you've told us that in December, you -- I think you said you
6 left Bijelo Bucje. Could you explain for us what occurred in December?
7 And just so we're clear, which year are you talking about?
8 A. I'm talking about December 1992, I was in the area of
9 responsibility, and the period that I was supposed to stay at the area of
10 responsibility had already expired, so I was waiting for relief so that I
11 could go for a rest. In December 1992, in late 1992, our replacements
12 came. I completed the shift. I pulled the people back from the lines,
13 sent them to Travnik. I was the last one to leave. When I came to
14 Travnik, to the battalion command, I was told that the police were going
15 to take me to Zenica, to the brigade command, and that down there --
16 should I slow down -- that the unit of mine was there at the brigade
17 command at Bilmiste, and that we should go towards Visoko. So I left
18 Travnik to go to Zenica, and I got a different assignment in Zenica.
19 Q. Okay. So if I can just ask you a couple of questions about that.
20 So you've told us that you pulled back from the lines at Bijelo
21 Bucje to Travnik, and there you were told that your unit was at the
22 brigade command at Bilmiste; is that right?
23 A. My unit, when we left Bijelo Bucje and came to Travnik, was
24 immediately told to continue in the vehicles to the brigade command in
25 Zenica. That's where it was located, and that's where they were billeted,
1 down there. So they did not have the rest that was planned for them.
2 They straightaway continued for the Bilmiste barracks.
3 Q. And then you told us that you left Travnik and you went to Zenica,
4 and there you got a different assignment. Did I understand you correctly?
5 A. Yes, yes, you did, that's right.
6 Q. And can you tell us about that new assignment that you were
7 given? What was it?
8 A. When I came to Zenica, I met Asim Koricic, Serif Patkovic, Ramo
9 Durmis, and some other commanders at the brigade command, and they told me
10 that we should go to Visoko with the units and that an action was being
11 planned for the Visegrad feature. I was not quite happy for the soldiers
12 of my unit to be sent from the ground into an action, in the belief that
13 they first needed to rest, and then the planned engagement of my unit.
14 Anyway, this is what happened. They proposed that I should not be the
15 commander of the company in that action. They took my deputy, but they
16 wanted me also to be there, to take part in it. And I was told to be a
17 kind of operative in the field, to monitor the action, so that I could
18 report to the forward command post of the brigade.
19 Q. So I'll just ask you a few questions about what you've just told
21 You mentioned several names. Can I clarify, who is Asim who was
22 Asim Koricic?
23 A. Asim Koricic at the time, I think, was the chief of staff. I'm
24 not sure, because the brigade had just been formed, so I'm not sure.
25 Q. The chief of staff of which unit, just for the purposes of
2 A. The Command of the 7th Muslim Brigade.
3 Q. You mentioned a second name, Serif Patkovic. Do you know what
4 position that person held at the time?
5 A. He was the commander of the 2nd Battalion of the 7th Muslim
7 Q. And then the third name you mentioned was Ramo Durmis. Do you
8 know what position that person held at the time?
9 A. He was the commander of the company in the 1st Battalion.
10 Q. So you told us that an action had been planned for the Visegrad
11 feature in Visoko. For the benefit of those of us who do not know where
12 Visoko is, could you tell us, from Travnik, which direction would you need
13 to go to get to Visoko?
14 A. Travnik-Vitez-Kakanj-Visoko. That's how you go.
15 Q. Now, you told us that you had been the commander of the Krajina
16 Company within the 1st Battalion, and when you got to Zenica and met with
17 the commanders of the 7th Muslim Brigade, you were told that you were
18 going to act as an operative during this combat action. Did you, in fact,
19 perform the role as operative?
20 A. I did, but without any equipment. We didn't have -- I wasn't able
21 to -- I had no electronic communications with the field, to the forward
22 command post, so what could I do? All I could do was to have the right to
23 use a courier from any company of the 1st Battalion.
24 Q. Before you tell us about that, I should ask you: Did the combat
25 action at the Visegrad location actually take place? And this is in
2 A. Yes, it did.
3 Q. Do you know the date or the approximate date when the action took
5 A. The 28th of December, 1992.
6 Q. And just so we're clear, who did those combat activities take
7 place against?
8 A. The Chetniks.
9 Q. Do you know how long the action lasted for on the 28th of
10 December, approximately?
11 A. About 12 hours.
12 Q. And so can you briefly tell us what you actually did when you
13 acted as an operative during the action? What were you doing?
14 A. I was just monitoring the units when they arrived in front of the
15 Chetnik lines and as they broke through the lines and captured the lines
16 and advanced. When the lines were broken of the Chetniks, when the units
17 began to move, then there was some kind of self-willed advance into the
18 depth, and I was not able to control each individual in each unit. It
19 started from persons -- I was able to follow as one person what was going
20 on only for one place, so I could only see those that were closest to me.
21 I wasn't able to monitor all of them. So I would send out a messenger to
22 stop a little bit to see where we would go, what would happen next.
23 So it was my duty also to inform the forward command post about
24 what was happening in the theatre.
25 Q. So there was a forward command post. Could you tell us, where was
1 that forward command post located in relation to where the action was
2 taking place?
3 A. Behind our back. That was actually where the Army of Bosnia and
4 Herzegovina was holding its lines. I don't know what the exact feature
5 was. I don't know.
6 Q. And do you know whether there are any commanders of the 7th Muslim
7 Brigade at that forward command post?
8 A. Asim Potic [as interpreted] and Serif Patkovic were there.
9 Q. Sorry, could I just clarify the first name you mentioned? You
10 said "Asim." Could you repeat the surname, please?
11 A. Koricic.
12 Q. In acting as an operative and monitoring the combat operations
13 that day, did you see any foreign fighters of Arabic or Turkish origin at
14 the place where the combat was occurring?
15 A. No.
16 Q. Did you see any foreign fighters at all that day?
17 A. That day, when I was going towards the command post, the forward
18 command post - it's called Crni Potok - I saw -- since I was going to
19 bring the men to carry away the wounded and the dead, one platoon, I saw a
20 couple of them, four or five foreign members, but I didn't have any
21 contact with them, I couldn't speak with them, and I don't know how they
22 happened to be there. This was behind our back, behind Polje.
23 Q. Earlier on today, you mentioned the person called Ramo Durmis, and
24 you told us he was a commander.
25 JUDGE MOLOTO: Can I interrupt? Is the witness able to tell us of
1 what origin these four or five foreign fighters may have been, if he
3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I don't know, I don't know.
4 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.
5 MR. ROBSON:
6 Q. In terms of their appearances, are you able to say did they look
7 of African or Asian or European origin?
8 A. Well, to tell you the truth, I wasn't really paying attention, but
9 I could see they were of a darker complexion. I saw hair. I mean, I
10 didn't really speak with them. I couldn't talk with them. I just passed
11 by. I didn't ask them anything, they didn't ask me anything. I don't
12 know if they were able -- I didn't know if they were able to speak
13 Bosnian, if they were saying anything or not. I had my task, my direction
14 of where I was going, and I had my own problem to solve, and that's where
15 I was going.
16 JUDGE MOLOTO: How did you determine that they were foreign?
17 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Only by their darker complexion.
18 Maybe I could be making a mistake, but in my opinion, since I know how
19 Bosnians look, judging by their appearance, I could tell that they were
20 foreign members by their complexion. I couldn't say if they were black.
21 They weren't too dark. I don't know what they were. They weren't even
22 wearing uniforms, uniforms of the Army of Bosnia and Herzegovina.
23 JUDGE MOLOTO: Are you able to remember what they were wearing?
24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] It was cold, so they were wearing
25 these long coats. I remember that very well.
1 JUDGE MOLOTO: Was their colour the only criterion that you used
2 or was there anything else you observed on them?
3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, only the colour.
4 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.
5 MR. ROBSON:
6 Q. Mr. Adilovic, going back to Ramo Durmis that you mentioned a
7 little earlier, did you see that man during the combat action at Visoko?
8 A. Yes.
9 JUDGE MOLOTO: Was this combat in Visoko or was it in Visegrad?
10 Earlier, this transcript said "Visegrad."
11 MR. ROBSON:
12 Q. Mr. Adilovic, can you explain that?
13 A. Why is Visoko being mentioned? Visoko is being mentioned because
14 this is the Municipality of Visoko. The action was carried out at the
15 Visegrad feature.
16 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes. You see, some of us don't know the geography,
17 so if we keep changing names, we get lost. So if you say "Visegrad," stay
18 with "Visegrad." If you have to change over to "Visoko," say, "Visegrad,
19 in the Municipality of Visoko." We don't know the geography, sir, so
20 please don't be impatient with us.
22 MR. ROBSON: And if I can just clarify one final point.
23 Q. The elevation Visegrad, which municipality was that in?
24 A. I think that it's in the Municipality of Visoko, because it's
25 immediately above Visoko.
1 Q. And, I'm sorry, I don't know whether you answered my question. Did
2 you see Ramo Durmis during the course of the combat action that day?
3 A. I did.
4 Q. And do you know, after the combat action that took place at
5 Visegrad elevation, did you ever see Ramo Durmis again?
6 A. After the 28th of December, 1992, I personally never saw Ramo
7 Durmis again, to this day, until now. I never saw him again.
8 Q. At that stage, he was a member of the 7th Muslim Brigade. Is
9 there any reason why you didn't see him again after the combat action that
11 A. Well, there was a reason, there is a reason. I don't know what
12 his reasons were. He was making problems of some sort, so I don't know
13 all the details, but according to my information he was no longer even a
14 member of the 7th Muslim Brigade, and I never saw him. I don't even know
15 if he's alive today.
16 Q. The information that you had, do you have any idea when he left
17 the 7th Muslim Brigade?
18 A. I couldn't really tell you precisely, but it was sometime in late
19 February or early May 1993. I heard this from others. I never saw him or
20 spoke with him again.
21 Q. And then, finally --
22 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's correction: Late February or
23 early March 1993.
24 MR. ROBSON:
25 Q. About the combat action that took place at Visegrad elevation,
1 what can you tell us about it? Was it a successful operation or what?
2 A. I can only say that it was an unsuccessful action.
3 Q. And what are your reasons for saying that, briefly?
4 A. I can say that that was because we had many losses, a lot of
5 wounded, and that's why it was an unsuccessful action. We didn't capture
6 territory, we didn't keep the territory, and so on.
7 Q. And after the action, what did you do next? Where did you go?
8 A. That evening, you mean? You mean that evening on the 28th of
9 December, that day, where?
10 Q. I mean rather more generally, after the conclusion of your
11 participation in the combat action. What did you do next?
12 A. I was the commander of the Krajina Company --
13 THE INTERPRETER: Could the witness please repeat the first part
14 of his answer?
15 A. ... up until, I think --
16 MR. ROBSON:
17 Q. Sorry, the interpreter has asked you if you could repeat your
19 A. After that action, I stayed a member of the 7th Muslim Brigade, of
20 the 1st Battalion, where I was company commander. And I was the company
21 commander still of the Krajina Company up until March or April, early
22 April. And then I was transferred. I received an order to transfer to
23 the Vitez Company. And at that time, I was the commander of the Vitez
24 Company. This is the 4th Vitez Company.
25 Q. So you remained a company commander of the Krajina Company up
1 until March or early April of which year?
2 A. 1993.
3 Q. And then you became the commander of the 4th Vitez Company?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. In which battalion of the 7th Muslim Brigade was that company?
6 A. The 1st Battalion.
7 Q. So during this time period, March and April of 1993, do you
8 remember where the 1st Battalion of the 7th Muslim Brigade was deployed?
9 A. It was deployed in the Bijelo Bucje, the area of responsibility of
10 Bijelo Bucje.
11 MR. ROBSON: Your Honours, at this stage I'd like to show Exhibit
12 108 to the witness, please.
13 Q. Mr. Adilovic, do you see that document in front of you, and if so,
14 can you tell us briefly what it is that you see?
15 A. I can't see anything.
16 MR. ROBSON: Perhaps if we could close in on the bottom half of
17 the document.
18 Q. Are you able to see who this document is from?
19 A. It is signed by the deputy commander, Asim Koricic.
20 MR. ROBSON: And if we can go up to the top half of the document,
22 Q. If we look at point 2(a), do you see that, Mr. Adilovic, it refers
23 to --
24 JUDGE MOLOTO: Could we enlarge the English a little bit, too.
25 MR. ROBSON:
1 Q. Can you read, Mr. Adilovic, that it refers to the 1st Battalion of
2 the 7th Muslim Brigade having around 325 soldiers engaged in Bijelo Bucje?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. I'd like to ask you about the bottom of paragraph (b). So if you
5 look down from 2(a), you can see point (b), and in the last sentence of
6 that paragraph, the document states in this paragraph:
7 "Additionally, there are around 60 Arabs and Turks who are also
8 not included in this total."
9 So the document is talking about quantities of men. To your
10 knowledge, in March 1993, were there 60 Arabs and Turks in the 1st
11 Battalion of the 7th Muslim Brigade?
12 A. No, there weren't. That's not correct.
13 Q. And to your knowledge, were there around 60 Arabs or Turks that
14 fought alongside the 1st Battalion of the 7th Muslim Brigade at Bijelo
16 A. No.
17 MR. ROBSON: Your Honours, this document can be put away, and I'd
18 like to show the witness Exhibit 995.
19 Q. Mr. Adilovic, do you see the document in front of you on the
20 left-hand side of the screen?
21 A. Yes.
22 MR. ROBSON: If we can close in again on the signature at the
24 Q. Now, there's no name on this document, but do you recognise this
25 signature at all?
1 A. I don't recognize either the signature or the stamp even.
2 MR. ROBSON: If we could return to the entire document, yes,
3 please, and if we can close in on the top half of the document, please.
4 Q. So what we can see, Mr. Adilovic, is that this document is dated
5 the 2nd of April, 1993, and it has a heading: "Warning." If we look at
6 the first paragraph, do you see that there's reference there to various
7 incidents that have been carried out by members of HVO units? Do you see
8 the reference to various incidents?
9 A. I do.
10 Q. And then if we look at the next paragraph down, do you see that
11 that paragraph refers to those incidents being -- what it says, "being
12 done to foreign nationals, volunteers in our ranks, particularly those
13 from Arab countries"? Do you see where the document says that?
14 A. I do, but I'm also asserting that among our ranks there were no
15 foreign members. I can't really comment upon this document, because it's
17 In my company, in my unit and in my battalion -- or the entire 7th
18 Muslim Brigade didn't have a single foreign member.
19 MR. ROBSON: Thank you, Mr. Adilovic.
20 Your Honours, this document can be put away.
21 If we could please bring up Exhibit 996.
22 Q. Now, Mr. Adilovic, we can see that this is a document with the --
23 that bears the heading: "Bulletin," and it's from the Staff of the
24 Supreme Command Security Administration. I suspect I know the answer, but
25 did you ever see this type of document?
1 A. No.
2 Q. What I'd like to ask you about is some information that's
3 contained in the first paragraph of this document, so the next one in both
4 the English and B/C/S versions.
5 Just before the B/C/S page disappears - it's gone - but I wonder
6 if we could just quickly go back to ascertain the date of this bulletin.
7 Do we see that the date of the bulletin is the 4th of April, 1993?
8 A. Yes.
9 MR. ROBSON: So if we can go to the first half or the top half of
10 the document.
11 Q. If you can briefly have a look at the information contained in the
12 top half of this page, Mr. Adilovic. Would you agree that here we can see
13 once again there's a reference to an incident that's being carried out?
14 A. Let me just have a look. This refers to foreign members, but I'm
15 telling you that there were no foreign members in the 7th Muslim Brigade.
16 I don't know anything about these events, who captured who, where, and
17 took them where. I don't know that. What I do stand by and tell you with
18 certainty, that in my 7th Muslim Brigade there were no foreign members.
19 JUDGE HARHOFF: Mr. Robson, I think it would be useful if you
20 could clarify with the witness just how he knows this. Did he have a
21 chance to visit all the other battalions? I mean, I accept that in his
22 own battalion, there would be no foreigners, but how could he know whether
23 there were foreigners in some of the other battalions who were billeted
25 MR. ROBSON: Yes, Your Honour, I'll explore that.
1 Q. Mr. Adilovic, you've told us that the commands of the 2nd and 3rd
2 Battalions were in Zenica and Kakanj respectively. On what basis can you
3 tell us that there were no foreign fighters within the battalions of the
4 2nd and -- within the 2nd and 3rd Battalions of the 7th Muslim Brigade?
5 A. Well, on the following basis: When we were conducting combat
6 activities, the 1st, 2nd and the 3rd Battalions, on the basis of that I
7 was able to know that there weren't any foreign members in the 7th Muslim
8 Brigade. I could tell by their looks, by their gait, by their behaviour,
9 and I would have recognised them had there been any in any other
10 battalions. And of course as company commander, I cooperated with the
11 company commanders of both the 2nd and 3rd Battalions. And when I was a
12 battalion commander, I cooperated with them. That was one team. We were
13 one team. That was our community, and we had to know who was part of that
14 in order to be able to know who we could cooperate with and rely upon.
15 And of course I knew that there weren't any foreign members.
16 Q. Just to clarify that a little, you say you cooperated with the
17 company commanders of both the 2nd and 3rd Battalions. During 1992 and
18 1993, what degree of contact did you have with members of the 2nd and 3rd
19 Battalion, if you can remember?
20 A. Listen, if my AOR was Bijelo Bucje, of course the 2nd Battalion
21 arrived there, had their replacements there. They held some of the --
22 parts of the line there, and so did the 3rd Battalion. We rotated. If we
23 were planning actions in different directions, we held briefings which
24 included all the company commanders, battalion commanders, and the brigade
25 commander, who was the one holding briefings. The brigade commander
1 called and summoned all the company commanders. Even platoon commanders
2 were present at the briefings, of course, and the battalion commanders,
3 that the briefings were called by the brigade commander, commander of the
4 7th Muslim Brigade. And we briefed him on the problems we had in our
5 respective units, and it was on that basis that I knew who was in the
6 different units.
7 MR. ROBSON: Thank you, Mr. Adilovic.
8 Your Honours, I'm looking at the time, and I'm wondering whether
9 this would be an appropriate stage to take a break.
10 JUDGE MOLOTO: If it is convenient for you [microphone not
12 JUDGE LATTANZI: [Interpretation] Since you were saying that the
13 foreigners were commanders of the 2nd and 3rd Battalion, I would like to
14 know precisely which operations, which combat operations, and when you had
15 operations together with the 2nd and 3rd Battalion.
16 JUDGE HARHOFF: My fellow Judge, I think, said that the --
17 JUDGE LATTANZI: [Interpretation] I said that since it was not said
18 that foreigners were commanding the 2nd and 3rd Battalion, I would like to
19 know which were the operations you conducted with the 2nd and 3rd
20 Battalion and on what date, at what date.
21 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I can.
22 JUDGE LATTANZI: [Interpretation] You spoke about the briefings,
23 briefings with the commanders, but it wasn't said that the 2nd or 3rd
24 Battalion were commanded by or headed by foreigners. Therefore, the only
25 possibility for you to meet or not to meet those foreigners would have
1 been during combat operations, concretely speaking. So I would like to
2 know precisely when you were fighting on the ground with the 2nd and 3rd
3 Battalion and at what date. That's all I want to know.
4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] As far as the entire 7th Muslim
5 Brigade is concerned and their activities, well, the different battalions
6 went different -- to different places.
7 JUDGE LATTANZI: [Interpretation] [No interpretation].
8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] May I proceed?
9 JUDGE MOLOTO: I'm not able to guide, because what I heard from
10 the interpreter was French. So I don't know what's happening, so I don't
11 know whether you may or may not proceed.
12 Judge, will you please help us?
13 JUDGE LATTANZI: [Interpretation] Now I can hear.
14 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] As far as the entire 7th Muslim
15 Brigade is concerned, in 1993 it was towards Kiseljak, Fojnica and so on
16 and so forth that all three of the battalions were engaged, the entire
17 brigade was engaged. The entire 7th Muslim Brigade was also engaged
18 toward Kiseljak, and in that brigade all the commanders were Bosniaks, all
19 the soldiers were Bosniaks. There wasn't a single foreigner as a member
20 of the 7th Muslim Brigade, nor did foreigners take a part in actions.
21 JUDGE LATTANZI: [Interpretation] You're speaking of which month in
23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I can't specify. I believe it was
24 already the month of July and August. At any rate, in the second half of
25 1993. It was in that period that the brigade went everywhere at their
1 full strength. It was only that at some point the 1st Battalion of the
2 3rd [as interpreted] Muslim Brigade was given the order to go to Igman,
3 and I was part of that.
4 THE INTERPRETER: Can the witness please repeat the date that he
5 mentioned concerning Igman?
6 JUDGE MOLOTO: Witness, you are asked to repeat the date you
7 mentioned concerning Igman.
8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The month of August of 1993.
9 JUDGE LATTANZI: [Interpretation] Thank you.
10 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.
11 We'll take a -- is it convenient? We'll take a break and come
12 back at quarter to 11.00.
13 Court adjourned.
14 --- Recess taken at 10.20 a.m.
15 --- On resuming at 10.46 a.m.
16 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Robson.
17 MR. ROBSON: Thank you, Your Honours.
18 The document on our screens can be put away, and I'd ask that
19 Mr. Adilovic be shown document D913.
20 If we could close in on the top half of the document, please.
21 Q. Mr. Adilovic, do you see that this is a document dated the 4th of
22 March, 1993, which has the head be "Assessment of units for their use in
23 combat according to the order of the 3rd Corps Command"? Can you see
25 A. I can.
1 MR. ROBSON: If we can just go to the last page in both versions
2 to see who it's from. If we can focus on the name and signature there.
3 Q. Do you see who sent this document?
4 A. Ahmed Zubaca.
5 Q. Do you know what position he held in March 1993?
6 A. I don't.
7 MR. ROBSON: Can we turn to the top of the first page in both
8 documents, please.
9 Q. Do you see that this document is sent to the chief of staff of the
10 7th Muslim Brigade?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Now, in the first paragraph, which has -- it's point (a). It
14 "The 1st Battalion of the 7th Muslim Mountain Brigade numbers
15 about 460 men and is carrying out defence combat operations in the sector
16 of Bijelo Bucje."
17 This document, which is from March, I think you said earlier in
18 your evidence that you were carrying out operations in Bijelo Bucje at
19 that time. Is that right?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. The second sentence then says:
22 "The battalion is composed of a unit of the strength of 118 men
23 from Vitez who, for the most part, will not return to Travnik to the
24 organic composition of the battalion."
25 In March 1993, had you become the commander of the Vitez Company?
1 A. No.
2 Q. If you can have a look at this paragraph, please, would you agree
3 or disagree that the information contained in the paragraph reflects the
4 situation at the time?
5 A. [No interpretation].
6 Q. Paragraph 1, it's the paragraph which has next to the little (a),
7 the first one you can see on the page, and if you could read the whole
9 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Robson, you may have heard it, but it's not
10 recorded. The answer to your question:
11 "If you can have a look at this paragraph, please, can you agree
12 or disagree that the information contained in the paragraph reflects the
13 situation at the time?"
14 Do you know what the answer was? Can the witness please answer
16 MR. ROBSON: Your Honour, he's reading the document.
17 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Please, as far as the head count is
18 concerned and the arrival of the units of the 1st Battalion of the 7th
19 Muslim Brigade, this is accurate. The unit was partly in Bucje, partly at
20 Rostovo, and of course it's only natural that it was in Gornji Vakuf as
21 well as in Vitez, because there was a unit there which I later on took
23 Q. So does the document accurately show where the units of the 1st
24 Battalion were in March of 1993?
25 A. It does.
1 Q. And the places that you mentioned and the places that we can see
2 mentioned in this paragraph, are any of these places in the Bila Valley?
3 A. No.
4 Q. In connection with this document, I'd like to ask you something
5 else. And if we can look at page 2 of both the English and Bosnian
6 versions. What I'm interested in, Mr. Adilovic, is the last paragraph,
7 and I'll read out the relevant part to you. In this document, what we can
8 see is it says:
9 "Bearing in mind all that has been said, I propose: Halt
10 activities on the Visoko battlefield until it is possible for us to leave
11 the zone of responsibility in Bijelo Bucje and until the mountain and the
12 city guerrilla groups come back from training."
13 Where this document refers to guerrilla groups coming back from
14 training, does that mean anything to you?
15 A. It does. This is the guerrilla group which was part of the 2nd
16 Battalion of the 7th Muslim Brigade, who were trained for combat in urban
17 areas, that's to say in towns, in the streets, and for combat in the
18 mountains. That was a unit of the 2nd Battalion, headed by one Senad
19 Senci, that's how we called him, and they were part of our 7th Muslim
21 Q. And so you've said this is the guerrilla group which was part of
22 the 2nd Battalion. Is that the title by which this group was called,"the
23 guerrilla group," or something to that effect?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And can you tell us, do you know what the ethnic composition was
1 of the members of this guerrilla group within the 7th Muslim Brigade?
2 A. They were all Bosniaks.
3 Q. And just so we're clear, were there any foreigners within that
4 group at all, particularly any foreigners of Turkish origin?
5 A. No, no.
6 Q. In connection with what you've just told us, Mr. Adilovic, I'd
7 like --
8 First of all, Your Honours, could this document please be admitted
9 into evidence.
10 JUDGE MOLOTO: The document is admitted into evidence. May it
11 please be given an exhibit number.
12 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, the document will become Exhibit
14 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.
15 MR. ROBSON: In connection with this document, I'd like
16 Mr. Adilovic to be shown Exhibit 319.
17 Q. Mr. Adilovic, can you see the document in front of you, which at
18 the very top of the page says the words: "Personal participation in a
19 task in the operation on 28th December 1992 in the area of Visoko: Place,
20 Visegrad - hill 744"?
21 JUDGE MOLOTO: Do we have the date?
22 MR. ROBSON: Your Honours, I'll come to that in a second.
23 Q. Do you see the document, Mr. Adilovic?
24 A. Yes, I do.
25 MR. ROBSON: If we could please go to the bottom of page 2 in the
1 English version and page 3 in the Bosnian. And, Your Honours, here we can
2 see the date.
3 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.
4 MR. ROBSON:
5 Q. Do we see here that the document has a name here "Selim Sisman."
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Do you know who Selim Sisman is?
8 A. He was a company commander of the 2nd Battalion of the 7th Muslim
10 MR. ROBSON: If we can return back to the first page in both
11 documents, please.
12 Q. So this document, which speaks of the operation on the 28th of
13 December, 1992, in the area of Visoko, is that the same combat action that
14 you described to us earlier in your evidence or is it something else?
15 A. It's the same combat action, 28th of December, 1992, in which
16 elements of the 2nd Battalion of the 7th Muslim Brigade took part.
17 Q. And just so we're clear, during that action, can you tell us which
18 battalions from the 7th Muslim Brigade participated?
19 A. The 1st and 2nd Battalions.
20 Q. And what I'm interested in is in the middle of the English page,
21 and in the Bosnian version it's a part which is -- it is the part which is
22 just above the last paragraph. I'll read it out to you. Do you see where
23 it says:
24 "The Gerila reported for the first time at 0615 hours, and I found
25 out that the attack would take place soon, as it did at 0630 hours. Senci
1 led the Gerila, and after the penetration, I was supposed to link up with
3 Do you see that part of the document?
4 A. I do.
5 Q. Are you able to explain at all what this part of the document
7 A. Since Senci was the commander of the Gerila, he was a member of
8 that same unit. This means that the Gerila commander was in touch with
9 the company commander. Senci led the Gerila, who were members of the 7th
10 Muslim Brigade, who were Bosniaks and members of the Army of
12 Q. And just so we're clear, a little earlier in your evidence you
13 referred to the guerrilla group which was part of the 2nd Battalion, and
14 you said that that group was led by a man called Senad, and I'm afraid his
15 surname has disappeared from my screen now. And in this letter -- in this
16 document, we can see the name "Senci" is used. Are you able to explain
17 why there are two different names?
18 A. It's like this: His name is Senad. We called him "Senci." It's
19 a term of endearment.
20 Q. So that's like a nickname, or is it a nickname?
21 A. Yes, it's a nickname. We really liked him a lot.
22 Q. So the Senci who led the Gerila and who is referred to in this
23 document before us, that's the same man called Senad who was the leader of
24 the guerrilla group within the 2nd Battalion of the 7th Muslim Brigade; is
25 that what you are explaining to us?
1 A. Yes. Yes, that's correct.
2 Q. On this document --
3 Your Honours, if we could please look at the second page in
4 English, and it's the second page in the B/C/S version as well. I'd like
5 to ask a question or two.
6 If we can go to the top of the page in the English version, and if
7 we can scroll down the page in the Bosnian version, please.
8 Mr. Adilovic, if you can look at the paragraph which sits above
9 Item Number 2, which says "Accomplishment of Task," what I'm going to do
10 is read out a part of that paragraph to you. In the document, the author
12 "I heard on the radio that Visegrad had also fallen and that the
13 Travnik people were advancing fast with the Arabs down towards the Gerila,
14 where they linked up."
15 First of all, you were monitoring the combat operations that day.
16 Did you see the guerrilla group of the 2nd Battalion participate in the
17 combat activities?
18 A. I linked up with the guerrilla group. They entered the Chetniks'
19 depth a bit earlier, so I had to link up with them, that was my
20 assignment, so that they wouldn't be left behind in the back. So I did
21 link up with Senci's group. Yes, that's the answer.
22 Q. And this part of the document, which says that Travnik people were
23 advancing fast with Arabs down towards the Gerila, when you observed the
24 battle, did you see any Arab fighters or foreign fighters of Arabic origin
25 fighting alongside the members of the 7th Muslim Brigade?
1 A. As far as the 1st Battalion is concerned, the Travnik Battalion,
2 there were no foreigners in the combat actions. I clearly said where and
3 when; that is, in the afternoon hours I saw a couple of people. I don't
4 know if they were Arabs or not. I know that they were foreigners. And
5 then this man that found out through the radio something, actually he
6 couldn't have had the opportunity, and I know that, to be able to see
7 exactly. I don't know what radio, how he did it. I don't know anything
8 about this statement of his. But it's true that the 1st Battalion was
9 advancing quickly, and they were advancing quickly, and I asked them to
10 stop a little bit for us to get our bearings, not to go too far into the
11 depth, not to fall into a trap.
12 As for foreign participants, and it says here "Arabs," there were
13 no such participants in my units on that day, no.
14 Q. If I can just clear something up. When you said, "and then this
15 man found out through radio something," who were you talking about when
16 you referred to "this man"?
17 A. The commander of the 2nd Battalion company who wrote this.
18 Q. So you're talking about the author of this document, Selim Sisman?
19 A. Yes.
20 MR. ROBSON: Your Honours, this document can be put away.
21 I want to return to --
22 JUDGE MOLOTO: Let me just get something clear. You say, sir, you
23 linked up with this guerrilla group because they penetrated and you
24 couldn't leave them behind?
25 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Please, I need to explain a little
2 The guerrilla group had a specific task, in the course of the
3 night, to pass through the lines of the Chetniks --
4 JUDGE MOLOTO: Let me interrupt you. Just listen to my question
5 and try to answer my question.
6 Did I understand you correctly to say that you later linked up
7 with this guerrilla group because you had to make sure that they are not
8 left alone?
9 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, precisely.
10 JUDGE MOLOTO: And according to this document, this is the same
11 group that also linked up with the Arabs later?
12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No. It linked up with me.
13 JUDGE MOLOTO: No, no, I said "according to this document."
14 According to this document, Travnik people were advancing fast with the
15 Arabs down towards the Gerila, where they linked up. Now, there was only
16 one guerrilla group, isn't it?
17 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] One guerrilla group, and this
18 guerrilla group led by Senci, who were members of the 7th Muslim Brigade
19 of the Army of Bosnia and Herzegovina.
20 JUDGE MOLOTO: And that's the group you linked up with later?
21 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Correct.
22 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.
23 MR. ROBSON:
24 Q. Mr. Adilovic, I now want to ask you about the time period
25 following your appointment as commander of the Vitez Company, which I
1 think you said was the 4th Company.
2 Now, did anything happen during the month of April 1993?
3 A. Please, why did I transfer, is that what you mean, as the
4 commander of the Vitez Company?
5 Q. No. The question is -- I'm trying to focus your attention on the
6 events that occurred after you became the commander of the Vitez Company,
7 and what I'd like to ask you about is whether anything occurred during the
8 month of April of 1993.
9 A. Well, this happened in the Vitez Company, because they started to
10 refuse orders, or the company commander, who was Redzo Kavazovic at the
11 time, they had a lot of problems about that to get to the area of
12 responsibility of Bijelo Bucje and so on and so forth. And then as far as
13 I know, Asim Bektas took over that company, and even then they couldn't
14 and they didn't want to carry out the assignment to go to the area of
15 responsibility in Bijelo Bucje. This is what I wanted to say. And then,
16 finally, they had a talk with me, because I am from Vitez, I know those
17 people, if I could then become the commander of the Vitez Company to get
18 that company in order, in line, if I were able to work with it, and to see
19 if they would carry out the assignments that I issued to them or that my
20 superior command issued to me to issue them. So this is how I became the
21 commander of that company.
22 Q. So at a point in time, you were asked to get the Vitez Company in
23 order, and then you became the commander of the company; is that right?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And just so we're clear, can you tell us again approximately when
1 that took place?
2 A. April 1993, I think. I'm not sure. I don't know exactly.
3 Q. And once you became the commander of the Vitez Company, what
4 happened next? Where were you deployed to?
5 A. The first assignment I got with the Vitez Company was to go to the
6 area of responsibility in Bijelo Bucje, and of course I got the unit
7 together in Vitez, I got them to the Travnik barracks or to the religious
8 school, the Medresa. It was just on the eve of the Army Day in
9 Bosnia-Herzegovina, the Army Day celebrated on the 15th of April. So the
10 plan was to stay until the next day, the 15th of April --
11 Q. Just so -- just to give you some explanation, today is Friday, and
12 I'm trying to move quite quickly so that we can get through your evidence,
13 with the possibility of you returning home this weekend. So I know that
14 you have a lot to tell us, but I'd be very grateful if perhaps you could
15 listen to the question carefully and give us a focused answer.
16 So the question was: You told us you were deployed somewhere.
17 Did anything happen during the course of that month, in April, briefly?
18 A. There was an attack on Ahmici by the HVO in 1993, the 15th or the
19 16th of April, 1993.
20 Q. And where were you at that time when the attack took place?
21 A. At that time, I was in Travnik, with the unit, at the Medresa
23 Q. And what was the impact, if any, of the attack being launched in
24 Ahmici; what did you do next?
25 A. Since I did have the order for the area of responsibility in
1 Bijelo Bucje and the entire company was from Vitez, and their families
2 were there, and I was from Vitez, from Novaci and my family is there, then
3 I asked not to go to the Bijelo Bucje area of responsibility but to go
4 back to Poculica so that we could see what was up with our families. The
5 war or the conflict with the HVO had already started that had attacked
6 Ahmici in Novaci, and that day I called everyone together. And ultimately
7 the roads were cut off, and I did set off towards Poculica with my unit.
8 Q. You set off for Poculica. You told us that you were from Vitez,
9 from Novaci. Where is Poculica in relation to Novaci?
10 A. Novaci are at the very entrance to Vitez. Poculica is between
11 Zenica and Vitez.
12 Q. So you travelled to Poculica, which I understand from your last
13 answer is past Vitez. How long did you stay in that area, approximately?
14 A. I stayed until the roads were reopened again from Poculica to
15 Travnik. This was sometime in July, I think. I'm not sure if it's -- if
16 it was at the end of June and beginning of July. Something like that.
17 Q. Just so we're clear, the end of June and beginning of July of
18 which year?
19 A. 1993.
20 Q. And whilst you were in this area, the area around Poculica, did
21 you remain in contact with the 1st Battalion Command in Travnik?
22 A. No, because the roads were not open anymore, so I couldn't stay in
23 contact with them.
24 Q. And when the roads reopened either at the end of July or the
25 beginning of -- sorry, at the end of June or the beginning of July, what
1 did you do next?
2 A. I was in Poculica during that time, but I was in touch with the
3 Zenica Brigade Command, and I reported to the brigade command in Zenica
4 immediately, and the brigade commander gave me an order to be
5 resubordinated to the 325th, and that's where my area of responsibility
6 was, at Poculica, at Sljivovica, and I held that when the road thing
7 happened, and then I received an order from the brigade commander to
8 return to the battalion command, and that's when I returned to Travnik.
9 JUDGE MOLOTO: 325th what?
10 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] 325th Mountain Brigade, Vitez
11 Mountain Brigade.
12 MR. ROBSON:
13 Q. Do you recall when it was that you returned to Travnik, to the 1st
14 Battalion Command, approximately?
15 A. July -- end of June, beginning of July, something like that.
16 Q. Now, the time that you had been away from Travnik, in the Poculica
17 area, do you know did units of the 1st Battalion of the 7th Muslim Brigade
18 remain in Travnik?
19 A. Yes, in Bijelo Bucje, in Travnik.
20 Q. So you were -- as I understand your evidence, you were away from
21 Travnik from the period of April until the end of June or early July.
22 Were you able to ascertain what the units of the 1st Battalion had been
23 doing during that time period?
24 A. I was not in a position to know for as long as I was at Poculica.
25 I couldn't know where they were. They were left behind me in the area of
1 responsibility of Bijelo Bucje at the Medresa. I didn't know anything
2 about them until I came to Travnik with my unit.
3 Q. And when you came to Travnik with your unit, did you find out
4 anything then?
5 A. Then I found out about the participation of Juka's Company, that
6 it took part in the Hajderove Njive action was.
7 Q. Can you tell us where Hajderove Njive is in relation to Travnik?
8 A. Hajderove Njive is immediately above our barracks near Travnik,
9 thereabouts, above our barracks maybe some 200 metres.
10 Q. Do you know, did you find out had any units of the 7th Muslim
11 Brigade been involved in combat activity in the Bila Valley region during
12 that time period?
13 A. No, I didn't.
14 MR. ROBSON: If I could show the witness --
15 JUDGE MOLOTO: I don't understand that answer, in relation to the
16 question, "I didn't."
17 MR. ROBSON: If I could clarify, Mr. Adilovic.
18 Q. Did you hear any information or did anybody tell you that units of
19 the 7th --
20 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes, Mr. Menon.
21 MR. MENON: Objection, Your Honour. The question seems to be
22 leading the witness to an answer.
23 MR. ROBSON: I'll rephrase that, Your Honour.
24 Q. Mr. Adilovic, you gave us an answer before. Could you just
25 clarify what you meant by that? You said, in response to my question, you
1 said: "No, I didn't."
2 JUDGE MOLOTO: And maybe to help the witness, Mr. Robson, if you
3 can use one verb. You see, in response -- when he gave that answer, you
4 said, "Do you know," "Did you find out?" You made two questions.
5 Similarly, just before the objection, you said, "Did you hear any
6 information or did anybody tell you?" Just put one question at a time.
7 Thank you.
8 MR. ROBSON: What I'll do, Mr. Adilovic, is go back to the initial
10 Q. Did you find out whether any units of the 7th Muslim Brigade had
11 been involved in combat activity in the Bila Valley region during the
12 period that you were away?
13 A. No, I didn't find that out. I don't know of any units
14 participating in the Bila Valley.
15 MR. ROBSON: Please, could we bring up D807 on the screen.
16 Q. So we see here a document, Mr. Adilovic. Do you see that it has a
17 date at the top of the 5th of June, 1993?
18 A. I see it.
19 MR. ROBSON: And if we can just go to the bottom of the page in
20 the Bosnian version and page 2 in the English.
21 Q. Can you see whose name this document bears?
22 A. I'm sorry, I was just looking at the top of the document.
23 [Technical difficulties]
24 --- Recess taken at 11.25 a.m.
25 --- On resuming at 11.35 a.m.
1 JUDGE MOLOTO: Are we okay now, sir?
2 THE REPORTER: Yes, we are.
3 JUDGE MOLOTO: Okay. Mr. Robson.
4 MR. ROBSON: Thank you.
5 Q. So, Mr. Adilovic, we have a document on the screen in front of
6 you. I'd like to ask you some questions about it.
7 We can see at the top of the page, it has the title "Extraordinary
8 Combat Report." Do you see that?
9 JUDGE MOLOTO: Could we see that in the --
10 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I do.
11 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.
12 MR. ROBSON:
13 Q. And would you agree that the document bears the name "Nenad
15 A. I would, yes, I agree.
16 Q. And if we can go to the top of the page, we can see there's some
17 information under the title "Aggressor," and at point 1(b), which is the
18 second paragraph, it says: "HVO units units ..." Do you see that?
19 A. I do.
20 Q. And at the bottom of that second paragraph, in section 1(b), it
21 states as follows about the HVO units:
22 "Firing positions are as follows: Hajderove Njive ...," and it
24 Does that mean anything to you, where it says "firing positions at
25 Hajderove Njive"?
1 A. The firing positions at Hajderove Njive were the HVO positions.
2 Q. And those HVO firing positions, where were they aiming towards?
3 A. They were aiming towards the town of Travnik. All around the
4 town, there were HVO positions targeting it.
5 Q. And further down the page, we can see section number 2, which has
6 a heading "Our Forces," and I'm interested in the third bullet point
7 down. So if we could go down in the B/C/S version.
8 Do you see the bullet point that says:
9 "1st Battalion, 7 Muslim Mountain Brigade is engaged on the
10 direction towards Hajderove Njive, linking it to itself and covering with
11 its MB (mortars)"?
12 A. I can see that, and that's the information I received when I
13 arrived in Travnik; namely, that this unit of the 7th Muslim Brigade was
14 engaged along the axis of Hajderove Njive.
15 MR. ROBSON: Your Honours, could that document please be admitted
16 into evidence.
17 JUDGE MOLOTO: The document is admitted into evidence. May it
18 please be given an exhibit number.
19 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, the document will become Exhibit
21 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.
22 Yes, Mr. Robson.
23 MR. ROBSON: Could the witness please be shown Exhibit 290.
24 Q. Mr. Adilovic, while we're waiting for the document to explain --
25 to appear on our screen, I can explain that this is a document from the
1 same time period, June 1993.
2 JUDGE HARHOFF: Mr. Robson, as we go through these documents, as
3 we are going through these documents, I would be grateful if you would be
4 so kind as to explain to us the relevance of these, because it is simply
5 unclear to me. And may I remind you that you have, I would expect, about
6 45 minutes left of your time, so if you would do us the favour to
7 strengthen the Chamber's grasp of these -- of this examination.
8 MR. ROBSON: Yes, Your Honour. I'll endeavour to do so, and I can
9 also indicate that it shouldn't be too long left of this
11 Q. Mr. Adilovic, do you see in front of you a document which has the
12 heading "PWO Milinfosum number 59," dated the 27th of June, 1993?
13 A. I can't make this out really well. It's fine now.
14 Q. Mr. Adilovic, I don't expect you to have seen this document during
15 the war, but I want to ask you some questions about the information in
17 Can we please turn to page 2 in the English version, and it's page
18 2 in the Bosnian version as well. And if we can scroll down, please, to
19 the bottom of the page, it's point number 10 that I'm interested in. So
20 if you can just --
21 Your Honours, I see that there's a discrepancy between the English
22 and B/C/S versions. You can see, in the English version, under "ORBATS"
23 it has "Number 10", whereas in the B/C/S version under "ORBATS," it
24 has "Number 7". I believe that's a typographical error.
25 JUDGE MOLOTO: So what must we look at in the English version?
1 MR. ROBSON: Your Honour, this is a Prosecution document, so we'll
2 have to have this rectified in due course, but if you'll bear with me for
3 the moment and we'll deal with the document as best that we can.
4 JUDGE MOLOTO: What I'm asking is what should we look at, should
5 we look at number 10 or number 7? Number 10 in the English?
6 MR. ROBSON: Number 10 in the English, and it's 7 in the B/C/S at
7 the bottom.
8 Q. I'll just read out to you what the document states, Mr. Adilovic.
9 So it says that there was an ECMM report that Franjo Nakic, a deputy
10 commander, OZ Central Bosnia, claimed that the 7th Muslim Brigade
11 comprised of three subordinate battalions. He also added that they were
12 fanatics, of which 10 per cent were foreigners, and who were used -- if we
13 can just turn over onto the next page in English, please -- manoeuvre unit
14 to reinforce main points of effort.
15 My first question is: Do you know who Franjo Nakic is? Have you
16 ever heard of that person?
17 A. I don't know.
18 Q. If we look at the information which is contained in this document,
19 it states: "7th Muslim Brigade HQ Zenica."
20 And then if we move down, it says: "1st Battalion, 7th Muslim
21 Brigade, Travnik."
22 We can then see under that: "Commander Asim Koricic."
23 Was the commander of the 1st Battalion of the 7th Muslim Brigade
24 Asim Koricic in June 1993?
25 A. Asim Koricic was never the commander of that battalion or any of
1 the battalions of the 7th Muslim.
2 Q. If we go down to the next part of the document, there is
3 information about the companies of the 1st Battalion of the 7th Muslim
4 Brigade. It states the companies Travnik, Mehurici -- sorry, Your
5 Honours, it's the next page in the B/C/S version, if we can turn over into
6 that. It states the companies are Travnik, Mehurici, Ravno Rostovo. Were
7 those three locations places where the companies of the 1st Battalion were
9 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes, Mr. Menon.
10 MR. MENON: Your Honour, I would submit that that is a leading
11 question. Perhaps the witness could be asked to comment on what he sees,
12 as opposed to asking whether he agrees -- whether he agrees whether those
13 companies were deployed in those locations.
14 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Robson.
15 MR. ROBSON: I'll rephrase the question.
16 Q. Mr. Adilovic, do you have any comment at all about where the
17 document speaks of the companies of the 1st Battalion of the 7th Muslim
18 Brigade being at Travnik, Mehurici and Ravno Rostovo?
19 A. I know that the 1st Battalion of the 7th Muslim Brigade never had
20 a unit stationed at Mehurici or the Bila Valley.
21 Q. And then finally on this document, there is a comment at the
22 bottom which repeats what we saw on the other page, and that is that 10
23 per cent of the 7th Muslim Brigade are foreign nationals. Do you have any
24 comment about that?
25 A. It is 100 per cent certain that the 7th Muslim Brigade had, as its
1 members, all Bosniaks.
2 Q. Do you know which ethnic group Franjo Nakic was a member of?
3 A. I don't know that. This is the first time I hear the name.
4 MR. ROBSON: Okay. Now, Your Honours, this document can be put
5 away. If we can please bring up document D49.
6 Q. Mr. Adilovic, do you see a document in front of you dated the 19th
7 of July, 1993, which states at the bottom that it's the commander of the
8 1st Battalion of the Muslim Mountain Brigade?
9 A. Please, here the commander of the 1st Battalion of the 7th Muslim
10 Brigade signed the document, Safet --
11 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreter didn't catch the second name,
12 the last name.
13 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The commander of the 1st Battalion
14 of the 7th Muslim Brigade, Safet Junuzovic.
15 MR. ROBSON:
16 Q. And do you recognise the signature on the document?
17 A. Yes, yes, that's correct.
18 Q. And if we can look at the heading, it states: "Response to
19 request." In your evidence a moment ago, you said that the 1st Battalion
20 of the 7th Muslim Brigade never had a unit stationed at Mehurici or the
21 Bila Valley. I'd like to ask you about this document, and in it we can
22 see it says the following:
23 "We are not able to grant your request from 5th of July, 1993,
24 because, as we officially informed you on several occasions, those units
25 do not belong to the 1st Battalion of the 7th Muslim Mountain Brigade, and
1 therefore we do not have the right to command the unit at Mehuric camp."
2 Do you have any comment on this document from the commander of the
3 1st Battalion?
4 A. This is an accurate document.
5 Q. And by that, do I understand you to mean that it shows that the
6 1st Battalion of the 7th Muslim Mountain Brigade did not command any unit
7 at Mehuric camp?
8 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Menon.
9 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Correct.
10 JUDGE MOLOTO: Sorry. Mr. Menon.
11 MR. MENON: Well, the question has already been answered, but
12 again I would submit that this is a leading question. The conclusion is
13 being put to the witness, and the witness is really -- all he's required
14 to do is say "yes" or "no," and which he did and --
15 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Robson.
16 MR. ROBSON: Your Honour, I was seeking to clarify the answer
17 given earlier by the witness and my understanding of that answer, in which
18 he said it was an accurate document.
19 JUDGE MOLOTO: Then if you want clarity, you say, "What do you
20 mean by that?" That's how you put the question.
21 MR. ROBSON: Your Honour, I'm going to put that question now.
22 JUDGE MOLOTO: It's superfluous.
23 MR. ROBSON: Okay. Your Honours, I would ask that this document
24 be admitted into evidence.
25 MR. MENON: Your Honour, I would object to that. The document has
1 effectively been read into the record, so I don't see any purpose in
2 burdening the record any further by having this particular document
4 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Robson.
5 MR. ROBSON: Your Honour, the witness has confirmed that the
6 document is from a person that he knows of. He recognises the signature,
7 and he's confirmed that it is an accurate document. And Your Honours will
8 be able to determine yourself whether it matches what he's been telling us
9 during the course of his testimony. Therefore --
10 JUDGE MOLOTO: Listen to the gravamen of the objection, sir.
11 That's not the objection. You're not answering to the objection.
12 MR. ROBSON: Your Honour, we would ask that it be admitted into
13 evidence so that we do have a copy of the actual document on the
14 transcript. We can see here information which has not been read into the
15 record. If we don't have the document admitted into the record, yes, we
16 will have the evidence on the transcript, but it could cause difficulties
17 to both parties and the Chamber if we don't have the actual document as a
18 trial record.
19 JUDGE MOLOTO: What difficulties?
20 MR. ROBSON: Your Honour, in the practice of this Chamber, we have
21 occasions when lengthy parts of documents have been read out, and that has
22 not precluded the documents from being admitted into evidence. As I say,
23 without the document being admitted as an exhibit in the case, we stand
24 every chance of losing sight of this evidence. As I say, there is
25 additional information contained in the document which has not been read
1 into the record. It's an important issue in the case, and I would suggest
2 that it's in the interests of justice for the Trial Chamber to have this
3 document so that it can use it at a later stage.
4 And, of course, this is not a case where the author of the
5 document is unknown to the witness. The witness has identified the author
6 of the document.
7 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Robson, as I understand the objection, it says
8 the document has been read into the evidence in its entirety, the entire
9 content of the document has been read into the transcript. That is the
10 basis for the objection.
11 MR. ROBSON: Yes, yes. Your Honour, if I could make a further
12 point, and perhaps it's the simplest point of all.
13 You can see that I haven't read the entire document into the
14 record. I only referred to the central paragraph and the author of the
16 JUDGE MOLOTO: Any reply, Mr. Menon?
17 MR. MENON: I would just note for the record that the content of
18 this document only contains one paragraph, and when I look at the
19 transcript, it's clear that the witness has identified the author of the
20 document, it's clear what the purpose of the document is, the title of the
21 document, and the one paragraph, its entire content, the substance of the
22 document is on the record.
23 JUDGE MOLOTO: Well, your learned friend's response is that not
24 the entire document has been read in. I guess he means, by that, that he
25 didn't read the official stamp affixed, the Republic of Bosnia, and the
1 whole address.
2 MR. MENON: Well, Your Honour, I would simply note that we're not
3 contesting the authenticity of this document, so I really don't see what
4 added benefit having the document on the record would really present.
5 JUDGE MOLOTO: Judge Lattanzi has a question to put.
6 JUDGE LATTANZI: [Interpretation] I have a question. Perhaps I
7 missed something out. In any case, I don't understand, Witness, whether
8 your company, after you had returned to Travnik, whether your company was
9 still or was no longer part of the 7th Muslim Mountain Brigade. Perhaps I
10 missed something out. I'm awfully sorry if that's the case.
11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I returned from Poculica to Travnik
12 with my unit, where I reported to the battalion command, and I remained
13 part of the 1st Battalion of the 7th Muslim Brigade. And I continued
14 being a member of the 1st Battalion of the 7th Muslim Brigade of the Army
15 of Bosnia and Herzegovina.
16 JUDGE LATTANZI: [Interpretation] Thank you.
17 JUDGE HARHOFF: Mr. Robson, I have another difficulty with this
18 document, and that is that my difficulty relates to the probative value.
19 All the document says is that it confirms that the 7th Muslim
20 Brigade -- or, rather, the 1st Battalion of the 7th Muslim Brigade did not
21 have a unit at the Mehurici camp. Is that -- I need to see it more
23 MR. ROBSON: Your Honours, if I can just briefly state the Defence
25 JUDGE HARHOFF: It refers to a request number 01/700/2 from 5th
1 July, because "as we officially informed you, those units do not belong to
2 the 1st Battalion of the 7th Muslim Brigade." That's what it says. And
3 then in your question, which I agree was leading, you then had the witness
4 confirm that this implied that there were no Muslim -- that no foreign --
5 let me see if I can find back to your question. You said:
6 "Do I understand you to mean that it shows -- this document shows
7 that the 1st Battalion of the 7th Muslim Brigade did not command any unit
8 at Mehurici camp?"
9 What is the probative value of this statement?
10 MR. ROBSON: Your Honour, you have to look at the indictment, and,
11 obviously, the Prosecution's case. It's the Prosecution's case that
12 foreign Mujahedin fighters were subordinated to and incorporated within
13 the 7th Muslim Brigade. They also talk about a unit of Mujahedin at the
14 camp. In the indictment, it talks of Poljanica, which we've heard is
15 close to Mehuric, so here we have a document which speaks directly to that
16 issue that the 1st Battalion of the 7th Muslim Mountain Brigade did not
17 have the right to command a unit at Mehuric camp, so that shows, in our
18 submission, it's relevant to whether there were persons subordinated and
19 incorporated within the 7th Muslim Brigade; it also is relevant to the
20 issue whether they had the ability to control others based at that
21 location, so we would say it's highly relevant.
22 And if I might add something, Your Honour --
23 JUDGE HARHOFF: Let us wait for the French translation.
24 Very well. It seems to say that at least the 1st Battalion did
25 not control anything in Mehurici. That may well be true, but does that
1 speak to the fact that the 7th Muslim Brigade had no control over the
2 activities in Mehurici?
3 MR. ROBSON: Your Honour, obviously that's an issue that you're
4 going to have to explore at a later stage, but it's been the Prosecution's
5 case that it was the 1st Battalion of the 7th Muslim Brigade, indeed
6 that's the evidence that we've heard today, that operated in this part of
7 Central Bosnia. So as to whether any of the other battalions could have
8 had some control, that may well be an issue for you in due course, but we
9 would say it's the 1st Battalion which is the relevant battalion.
10 JUDGE HARHOFF: So what we see here is merely a confirmation of
11 what the witness has already confirmed at several occasions during his
12 testimony, that at least in the 1st Battalion there were no foreigners?
13 MR. ROBSON: We would say it's documentary evidence which supports
14 what you've heard from the witness today.
15 JUDGE HARHOFF: Very well, thanks.
16 MR. ROBSON: And, Your Honours, perhaps if I can just also say:
17 Clearly you've heard the contents of the document, but in due course you
18 will have to consider the weight to attach to documents -- of all
19 documents that you've received as exhibits in the case, and my submission
20 would be that without the original copy, without the markings it has,
21 without being able to see stamps and signatures, that will be an extremely
22 difficult task for you to decide what weight, if any, to give to this
23 piece of evidence we have today.
24 JUDGE MOLOTO: Okay. Thank you very much.
25 If the Trial Chamber may just rule on the objection. I think this
1 document is so brief that it hardly adds on to any burden that the Trial
2 Chamber already has. The document will be admitted.
3 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, the document will become 1198.
4 MR. ROBSON: Your Honours, I note the time. We're past the normal
5 break time, but I'm just wondering whether you'd like me to continue. I
6 should be able to finish certainly within five minutes, or if you'd like
7 us to take the break at this stage, we can do so.
8 JUDGE MOLOTO: One of my colleagues on the Bench just whispered
9 that we take the break.
10 Court adjourned, and come back at half past 12.00.
11 --- Recess taken at 12.05 p.m.
12 --- On resuming at 12.35 p.m.
13 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes, Mr. Robson.
14 MR. ROBSON: Thank you, Your Honours.
15 The final document I wish to show Mr. Adilovic is Exhibit 123.
16 Q. Mr. Adilovic, while we're waiting for this to appear in English,
17 would you agree that we can see that this is a short document dated the
18 27th of May, 1993?
19 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreter didn't hear the witness.
20 MR. ROBSON:
21 Q. Can you see the document, Mr. Adilovic?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And would you agree that it has the date the 27th of May, 1993,
24 and it bears the name "Asim Koricic" at the bottom?
25 A. I agree.
1 Q. If I could quickly read to you the first sentence of the document,
2 it states:
3 "We are unable to obey point 6 of your order strictly confidential
4 number 02/33-1281 of 27 May 1993 because we do not have insignia showing
5 membership of the unit. We did not get these and so the process of
6 marking has not even begun."
7 And my question to you, Mr. Adilovic, is: Do you recall whether
8 you and your subordinates had received insignia for your uniforms by the
9 end of May 1993?
10 A. We didn't receive the insignia of the 7th Muslim Brigade, and when
11 I was the battalion commander at the end of 1993, not even at that point
12 did I have the insignia of the 3rd [as interpreted] Muslim Brigade. We
13 had constant problems with these -- with the insignia.
14 Q. So just so I'm clear, even by the end of 1993, you and your
15 subordinates had not received insignia of the 7th Muslim Mountain
16 Brigade --
17 A. No, no.
18 MR. ROBSON: Thank you, Mr. Adilovic. I have no further
20 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much, Mr. Robson.
21 Mr. Menon.
22 MR. MENON: Thank you, Your Honour.
23 Cross-examination by Mr. Menon:
24 Q. Good morning, Mr. Adilovic. My name is Aditya Menon, and I will
25 be asking you some questions on behalf of the Prosecution.
1 If my question -- if you don't understand my question, please make
2 that clear, and I will try to restate it. My intention isn't to trick
4 Let me begin by asking you -- confirming that you testified in the
5 Hadzihasanovic and Kubura case.
6 A. Yes, I did.
7 Q. And that was on the 12th of April, 2005?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And you answered the questions that were put to you truthfully?
10 A. Pardon? Can you repeat the question?
11 Q. When questions were put to you during the course of your testimony
12 in the Hadzihasanovic and Kubura case, you answered those questions
14 A. Truthfully, yes.
15 Q. And did you answer those questions fully and to the best of your
17 A. I believe I did.
18 Q. And wouldn't you agree with me that at the time that you testified
19 in the Hadzihasanovic and Kubura case, which was in 2005, your
20 recollection of the events in Central Bosnia in 1992 and 1993 were perhaps
21 clearer at that time?
22 A. I only spoke in more extensive terms at the time.
23 Q. Thank you for that, sir. Let me begin by confirming that you
24 joined the 7th Muslim Mountain Brigade in November 1992. Is that correct,
1 A. Yes, upon the setting up of the 7th Muslim Brigade, which was in
2 the month of November, I joined it.
3 Q. And at the time that you joined the 7th Muslim Mountain Brigade,
4 you joined specifically the 1st Battalion of that brigade?
5 A. The 1st Battalion of the 7th Muslim Brigade.
6 Q. And this battalion was based in Travnik; correct?
7 A. Correct.
8 Q. And it was specifically headquartered in the Medresa building in
10 A. Please, the units, that's to say the soldiers, were billeted at
11 the Medresa in Travnik. We called it "Medresa," but it was our barracks.
12 The command of the battalion was billeted at our dom, close to the police
13 station. So the commanders and assistant to the commanders were up there.
14 Q. And you do know that the Medresa building was used prior to --
15 prior to it having been used as a facility by the 7th Muslim Mountain
16 Brigade, 1st Battalion, it was used by the Muslim Forces of Travnik? Can
17 you confirm that, sir?
18 A. I can't confirm that, because at the time I wasn't there at all. I
19 was at Visoko, at the Territorial Defence there out in the field. Who was
20 there, reporting at the Medresa, I don't know about that. I was a member
21 of the 1st Battalion of the 7th Muslim Brigade.
22 Q. Okay. Thank you for that, sir. Now, sir, when you joined the 1st
23 Battalion of the 7th Muslim Mountain Brigade, how many companies were
24 there within this battalion?
25 A. It was planned by the establishment to have four companies. I
1 don't know whether they were all formed at the same time. I took up the
2 Krajina Company and went out in the field. The Ravni Company was also
3 established, and the Vitez Company was set up at a later stage.
4 The setting up -- or, rather, the establishment of the battalion
5 envisaged four companies. I don't know whether they had full manpower
6 levels. I don't think any of them were, except for perhaps the Vitez
7 Company, and only at a later stage.
8 Q. But at the time that you joined the 1st Battalion, sir, can you
9 tell me who the other company commanders were?
10 A. I was a company commander. Ramo Durmis was a company commander,
11 and the late Muharem Salkica was.
12 Q. And, sir, you say, and you restated this -- you restate the fact
13 that you were a commander of the Krajina Company, and I want to refresh
14 your recollection with what you -- with the statement that you had given
15 during the course of your testimony in the Hadzihasanovic and Kubura case.
16 And for the Court's benefit, this is at page 18313 of the
17 Hadzihasanovic and Kubura transcript, and the line reference is lines 10
18 through 17.
19 Sir, you were asked -- and I'm just going to read out the relevant
20 part of that question:
21 "I'm not entirely clear about the date you became a company
22 commander. It must have been sometime in November, perhaps sometime
23 later. Can you specify when it was that you became a company commander?
24 I'm not talking about the Territorial Defence of Vitez. I'm talking about
25 the 7th Muslim Mountain Brigade, that is."
1 And your answer, sir, was:
2 "I believe it was by the end of February 1993."
3 And then later on, an additional question was put to you, sir, and
4 again this is from the Hadzihasanovic and Kubura case. And for the
5 Court's benefit, this is page 18335 of the Hadzihasanovic and Kubura
6 transcript, and the line references are 8 through 22. And the question,
7 sir, was this:
8 "Before you were appointed the commander of the company in
9 February, you said that in November you had filed a written request to
10 join the 7th Muslim Mountain Brigade to Mr. Haso Ribo, and then you
11 were -- in fact became a member of that brigade. In what capacity were
12 you a member of the brigade between November and February? What were you
13 doing? What sub-unit of the brigade were you attached to before you
14 became the commander of the 2nd Company?"
15 And, sir, your answer was:
16 "Right. I was not carrying out any duties on the basis of any
17 documents, orders, or anything like that. I was within the unit, within
18 the battalion. I was following the situation of the units. That was my
19 task until the setting-up order, gathering of the people from the
20 battalion to form companies. So I followed the situation within the
21 unit. I went to Bijelo Bucje, et cetera, and I said I went to Visoko. And
22 I was simply following that action, nothing else, as a member of the 7th
23 Muslim Brigade."
24 Sir, do you recollect the answers that you gave and that I just
25 read out?
1 A. I can't remember that bit precisely, but I can give you an answer
2 to it all.
3 Q. If you could do that, sir.
4 A. Please, the 7th Muslim Brigade that was set up according to the
5 document on the 19th of November, 1992, and its units were not put
6 together, all of them, so that you could say, "This is the unit of the
7 brigade," or, "This is the 7th Muslim Brigade." It was only the start of
8 the setting-up process. There were proposals at the time as to who should
9 be the commander, the deputy commander, and so on and so forth. When you
10 appoint a commander in writing, well, you can also appoint him orally
11 first, and only later on will the document be made certifying his
12 appointment. There was a war on.
13 As soon as I reported to the 7th Muslim Brigade, I wasn't able to
14 stay back home or to be idle within the brigade. I had to move around to
15 set up the company. In fact, I myself set up the Krajina Company and
16 became its commander.
17 We were doing this as we went along, as the war was going on, and
18 we were trying to create all the conditions that needed to be in place.
19 Now, the follow-up documents, the underlying documents, came only
20 at a later state -- stage. Initially, there were differences of opinion,
21 and it wasn't possible to achieve such a high degree of organising in
22 order to -- for the brigade to become immediately operational. You had
23 some men who were resting at home, some were away. The 7th Muslim Brigade
24 was indeed set up, but it was set up within a process that went hand in
25 hand with the war.
1 JUDGE MOLOTO: If I may just get some clarity.
2 When the follow-up documentation came, did it appoint you with
3 retrospective effect to the date of the oral appointment?
4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, yes. Whatever I did, as soon
5 as I joined the unit --
6 JUDGE MOLOTO: We haven't got much time. Just listen to the
7 question, answer the question, and that's it. Thank you very much.
8 Yes, Mr. Menon.
9 MR. MENON:
10 Q. Now, sir, at the start of -- at the start of your testimony here,
11 I had asked you whether you answered the questions in the Hadzihasanovic
12 and Kubura case truthfully and fully. When the question was put to you as
13 to when you became a company commander within the 1st Battalion of the 7th
14 Muslim Mountain Brigade, why didn't you at that time indicate that you
15 were the company commander of the Krajina Company as of November 1992?
16 A. Please, I've just answered this question. The forming of the
17 brigade was underway, and I was assigned the Krajina Company. These
18 people were not assembled. I went to Bijelo Bucje to assemble them, and
19 time was passing. When the time was ripe and when we were all assembled,
20 then I officially became the company commander.
21 I know, based on my own documents -- I knew that I was the
22 commander of the company, the Krajina Company.
23 Q. When did you officially become the company commander of the
24 Krajina Company, sir?
25 A. Well, at the moment, I cannot recall when that was, officially,
1 but it was from the period of the establishment of the company. I was
2 acting in the role of the company commander.
3 Q. And I go back again to the answer that you had given in response
4 to a question as to when you had become a company commander in the 1st
5 Battalion of the 7th Muslim Mountain Brigade. And you referred to the
6 date of end of February 1993. Can you explain to us what the relevance of
7 that particular date is, then, in light of the testimony that you've given
8 here today?
9 A. When I came to the 7th Muslim Brigade, I was sent to Bijelo Bucje,
10 and in my opinion, I was the commander of the company. As for the
11 information of the 7th Muslim Brigade, what that information is, I don't
12 know. I don't know right now if we're talking about January, February,
14 Please, I also went on the 28th of December in 1992 to the
15 Visegrad feature. I came from Bijelo Bucje as company commander, and I
16 stated that here. And in the Kubura case, you'll probably have the
17 information that I handed over the company and became an operative on that
18 day, on the 28th of December.
19 Q. Actually, sir, that's not particularly clear from the Kubura
20 transcript, but that's not my point. My point is simply: An answer that
21 you had given while testifying and an answer in relation to a question as
22 to when you became a company commander, your answer was "at the end of
23 February 1993." Now, that date hasn't come up in your testimony today,
24 and I'm simply trying to reconcile the testimony you gave in the
25 Hadzihasanovic and Kubura case with what you've said today, and I just
1 simply want to know: What is the relevance of this date at the end of
2 February 1993? Because that was your testimony, sir.
3 A. Well, that testimony doesn't stand in relation to the Vitez
4 Company, because as of January, late January and February, I was asked to
5 take over the Vitez Company, so according to that testimony perhaps it
6 says that I was the commander of the company at the time, the Vitez
8 Q. Sir, I'll move on.
9 Sir, I want to ask you some questions in relation to the Visoko
10 operation that took place at the end of December 1992 and about which
11 you've testified this morning.
12 Sir, do you know which other -- do you know which other units,
13 other than the 7th Muslim Mountain Brigade, participated in that
14 particular operation?
15 A. I cannot recall that right now, but I think there were units from
16 Visoko, but I don't know. I really cannot give you an answer, because I
17 really don't know.
18 Q. And can you tell me, sir, how that particular -- excuse me. Can
19 you tell me, sir, how the attack on that day was organised?
20 A. My unit was given the axis, where to enter, where to work. We
21 were there from the Crni Potok toward the Chetnik. We broke through the
22 lines. We got out there to the elevation. We secured it. That's it.
23 Q. And, sir, on that day, were you participating in the combat?
24 A. That day, I was an operative monitoring the unit of the 7th Muslim
25 Brigade or, rather, of the 1st Battalion. I was a coordinator on the
1 ground, coordinating with the forward command post of the brigade command.
2 Q. And, sir, just so that I'm clear, in relation to the combat
3 activities, how far away were you from those activities?
4 A. I went with the fighters of the 1st Battalion directly.
5 Q. Did you advance with those fighters?
6 A. Yes, I did. But since the line was broken through and we were
7 spreading to the left and the right, I could have gone to the left or the
8 right, so I was going in one direction for an hour, then I would stop and
9 change direction, and then do that again after an hour. I didn't have a
10 set place where I could be there all the time and follow what was going
11 on. I was moving from spot to spot.
12 Q. And, sir, were you in contact with the company commanders who were
13 leading the attack from the 7th Muslim Mountain Brigade?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And how were you in contact with them?
16 A. Physical contact.
17 Q. And, sir, can you tell me who was in overall command of this
18 particular operation?
19 A. As far as I was concerned, the 7th Muslim -- the 1st Battalion was
20 commanded by Asim Koricic and Serif Patkovic, who were there at the
21 forward command post. As for others, I don't know.
22 Q. Okay. So if I were to tell you that it was, in fact, Kadir Husic
23 who was in charge, who was actually a member of the operations group
24 Visoko, you wouldn't know that?
25 A. No, I wouldn't. I was responsible for my own unit, and I was also
1 reporting to Asim Koricic and Patkovic.
2 Q. And, sir, did you participate in any of the reconnaissance that
3 took place prior to that operation?
4 A. Yes, I did take part in the reconnaissance.
5 Q. And can you tell us what you did, exactly?
6 A. We all went. The commanders, I went with them, including Asim
7 Koricic and Serif Patkovic to reconnoiter the Chetnik terrain to see where
8 we would go in and what we would do. This was reconnaissance from our
9 lines, immediately if front of our lines, to see where the Visegrad
10 feature was, how we would get in there, where the 1st, where the 2nd,
11 where the 3rd would go, and so on.
12 Q. And, sir, you were shown this morning a report that was prepared
13 by Mr. Selim Sisman, and in that report he refers to the participation of
14 Arabs in this particular operation, Arabs, foreigners, generally speaking,
15 in this operation. Do you agree with me?
16 A. No, I don't.
17 MR. MENON: Okay. If we can bring up Exhibit 319, and if we could
18 go to page 2 of the English version of this document. And if we could
19 scroll down on the Bosnian version of this document. If we could go to
20 page 2 of the Bosnian version of the document as well.
21 If we could scroll up.
22 Q. Sir, I would direct your attention to the middle portion of the
23 document that you see. Do you see a reference there to the following
25 "I heard on the radio that Visegrad had also fallen and that the
1 Travnik people were advancing fast with the Arabs down towards the Gerila,
2 where they linked up, as I found out later"?
3 Do you see that?
4 A. I do see it, yes.
5 Q. So you agree with me that Mr. Sisman is referring to the
6 participation of Arabs, the presence of Arabs, during the course of these
7 combat activities?
8 A. I don't agree with you.
9 Q. Can you explain why?
10 A. Because I was at Visegrad with the units directly, reconnaissance
11 and all the preparations. During that time, there were no Arabs. The
12 Gerila was there belonging to the 7th Muslim, and these were Bosniaks. So
13 if he heard this over the radio, he couldn't have seen it himself. He
14 might have heard something, somebody might have told him. So as far as
15 I'm concerned, this item is inaccurate, especially because I was there
17 Q. Now, sir, if you would -- if you would please listen to my
18 question carefully, I'll restate it. My question was simply: Do you
19 agree with me that Mr. Sisman is referring to the participation of Arabs,
20 the presence of Arabs, not whether he saw them, whether he's stating that
21 he saw them, but merely the fact that he's referring to the participation
22 of Arabs? Do you agree with me?
23 A. I don't.
24 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes, Madam Vidovic.
25 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, if I may assist, the
1 Prosecutor perhaps can specify what he means "there," because in that way
2 the question is hard to understand in our language. Can he just explain
3 what he means when he says "there," meaning the document.
4 MR. MENON: I will rephrase my question.
5 Q. Sir, in this document, as I read it, Mr. Sisman is referring to
6 the participation of Arabs at the operation in Visoko. He's saying that
7 he heard on the radio that Visegrad had fallen and that the Travnik people
8 were advancing fast with the Arabs down towards the Gerila, where they
9 linked up. And I'm simply asking you to confirm whether this statement
10 refers to the participation of Arabs in this particular operation at
12 A. There was no participation of Arabs at Visoko at the axis where I
14 Q. Sir, I'm not asking you about your personal recollection. I'm
15 simply asking you what appears on this document.
16 A. I don't know if they took part at all, Arabs, in that action.
17 Q. Well, sir, that's a different answer than what you had given us
18 this morning, because this morning you had given us an affirmative answer,
19 that they did not participate. Now you're telling us that you don't know
20 if they participated.
21 A. They did not participate. I said that this morning. Arabs did
22 not participate at the Visegrad feature with the 7th Muslim Brigade unit,
23 and that is something that I am confirming now.
24 JUDGE MOLOTO: Maybe, if I may just find out, sir, do you agree
25 that this document on the screen relates to the Visegrad combat of the
1 28th of -- 28th of what, April?
2 MR. MENON: December.
3 JUDGE MOLOTO: ... December 1992?
4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] In the document, it is said that it
5 is the 28th of December, 1992, and that's the date when we were in this
6 action. As for the participation of the units --
7 JUDGE MOLOTO: Just listen to my question. Answer the question
8 and the question only. Then we'll move a little faster, and then you will
9 go home and spend the weekend with your family, rather than stay here for
10 the weekend and then come back on Monday.
11 MR. MENON: I would ask now that the witness be shown Exhibit 121.
12 JUDGE HARHOFF: Mr. Menon --
13 MR. MENON: Yes.
14 JUDGE HARHOFF: -- I can't help seeing the witness's answer to
15 your question, if you go up to -- it's just on the top of the screen at
16 the moment -- to line number 6 of page 27. You asked the witness if there
17 were participation of Arabs in this particular operation at Visoko, and
18 the witness answered:
19 "There was no participation of Arabs at Visoko at the axis where I
21 So still there is, in my view, some sort of misperception. Is the
22 witness talking about what he could see from the point where he was or is
23 he talking about the overall operation at Visegrad?
24 MR. MENON:
25 Q. Mr. Adilovic, do you understand the Judge's question?
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Can you answer it?
3 A. In the planning of the action, no Arabs at all were planned in the
5 JUDGE HARHOFF: I understand that. Mr. Adilovic, one thing is
6 that the participation of Arabs was not included in the plans, perhaps,
7 but the issue is if Arabs, in fact, took part in the action somewhere;
8 maybe not where you were. And I am sure that you're truthful when you
9 tell us that you never saw any Arabs, but there could have been Arabs
10 taking part somewhere else in that operation. After all, it was a big
11 operation. The front line was quite extended. And I'm asking the
12 question because it appears as if, from the document, apparently another
13 company commander heard over the radio that the Arabs had taken part, and
14 this is strange. Why would he say this if it wasn't true?
15 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Please, he heard through the radio
16 communications that there were people from Travnik and the Arabs breaking
17 through fast, but I was leading the Travnik people and the Travnik unit
18 and following them, monitoring them. There were no Arabs at all within
19 the 1st Battalion of the 7th Muslim Brigade. There were no Arabs. I
20 don't know who he heard this from, in which radio communication. This is
21 something that I don't know.
22 JUDGE HARHOFF: Thank you, sir.
23 MR. MENON: I would ask that --
24 JUDGE LATTANZI: [Interpretation] [No interpretation].
25 JUDGE MOLOTO: Sorry, Judge, we're getting no translation.
1 JUDGE LATTANZI: [Interpretation] I'll repeat that.
2 I was saying to the witness that I have a question, and I would
3 like him to answer it without making any additional comments. This is my
4 question: You said that for the planning of the action, no Arabs had been
5 included or planned to take part in it. When you plan, you plan the
6 participation of units, not of single individuals?
7 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Please, during the planning --
8 JUDGE LATTANZI: [Interpretation] No comment. I just want to know
9 whether you plan units or individuals. That's all I want to know.
10 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Units of the 7th Muslim.
11 JUDGE LATTANZI: [Interpretation] Thank you.
12 MR. MENON: I would ask now that the witness be shown Exhibit 121,
14 Q. Sir, do you see the document in front of you?
15 A. Can we zoom in a little bit on the document, please.
16 MR. MENON: And if we could go to page 2 of the English and page 2
17 of the Bosnian version of this document. Actually, if we could go back to
18 page 1 for a second of both versions.
19 Q. Sir, I'd ask you to look at the title of this particular document
20 and the first sentence. Do you agree with me, sir --
21 A. I see it.
22 Q. Do you agree with me, sir, that this particular document relates
23 to the operation in Visoko on the 28th of December, 1992?
24 A. Yes, that was the date of the operation.
25 MR. MENON: And if we could go to page 3 of the Bosnian version
1 and page 2 of the English version of this document.
2 Q. Do you see a name at the bottom of this document, sir?
3 A. Yes, I see "Ramo Durmis."
4 Q. And, sir, earlier today you referred to Mr. Durmis' participation
5 in this operation. Would you agree that he did, in fact, participate in
6 this operation?
7 A. He participated in the operation.
8 Q. And he participated in the operation as a company commander within
9 the 7th Muslim Mountain Brigade; correct?
10 A. Correct.
11 MR. MENON: If we could go to the second page of the Bosnian
12 version of this document and scroll up on the English version of the
14 Q. And, sir, I would direct your attention to the paragraph which
16 "Some Mujahids, including Arabs, moved towards the elevation 744
17 and without my order. Then they came down to the village and started
19 Do you see that paragraph, sir? It should be at the middle
20 portion of the text.
21 A. I see it.
22 Q. Do you agree with me, sir, that Mr. Durmis is also referring to
23 the participation of Arabs in the operation in Visoko which took place on
24 the 28th of December, 1992?
25 A. According to the document, the way he drafted it, it's as if Arabs
1 were participating there, but not under his control. They were not under
2 his control.
3 Q. My question, sir, simply is whether Mr. Durmis is referring to the
4 participation of Arabs in this operation. Would you agree with me on
6 A. As far as I'm concerned, this document, because I didn't see them
7 personally, is not fully valid. I cannot respond to this question. I
8 didn't have any assignments relating to them. They were not with me. They
9 were not with our units, either.
10 Q. Sir, that was not my question. My question is simply: What
11 appears on the page in front of you? We've confirmed that this particular
12 document relates to the Visoko operation, and then Mr. Durmis, who is a
13 participant in that operation, is the author of this document, and I'm
14 simply asking you to confirm that he's referring to the participation of
15 Arabs in this operation.
16 A. I cannot confirm this. This is what he said, but I cannot confirm
18 JUDGE MOLOTO: Move on, Mr. Menon.
19 MR. MENON: Yes, I will, Your Honour.
20 If we could go into private session for a moment.
21 JUDGE MOLOTO: May the Chamber please move into private session.
22 [Private session]
11 Pages 7263-7264 redacted. Private session
8 [Open session]
9 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're in the open session.
10 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.
11 MR. MENON: Your Honour, if I could just have a moment to consult
12 with Mr. Mundis.
13 JUDGE MOLOTO: You may do so.
14 [Prosecution counsel confer]
15 MR. MENON: Thank you for that break, Your Honour.
16 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much. With the technological
17 assistance of Judge Lattanzi, I've got the exhibit on the screen. All I
18 wanted to mention is that this document also mentions not only Arabs, but
19 Turks as well, in the sentence reading:
20 "However, the Arabs went even further to the right. Amir Heldzic
21 [phoen] and his group returned before the mid-day, but Abu Tallah,
22 deceased, with the Arabs and the Turks, remained deep on the right side."
23 You may proceed.
24 MR. MENON: Your Honour, I'll put a question to the witness in
25 relation to that.
1 Q. Sir, do you know who Abu Tallah is?
2 A. I don't.
3 Q. Thank you very much. Now, sir, earlier today you testified about
4 the brigade commander summoning all the commanders of the battalions
5 within the 7th Muslim Mountain Brigade and all the commanders within -- of
6 the companies within the 7th Muslim Mountain Brigade --
7 JUDGE MOLOTO: Sorry, the witness doesn't get translation.
8 Yes, Madam Vidovic.
9 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, if I may be of
10 assistance, could Mr. Menon slow down whilst putting questions, because
11 the interpreters have trouble catching up with him and then the question,
12 as it comes to the witness, is presented somewhat differently, and this
13 creates confusion.
14 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much, Madam Vidovic, because we
15 don't hear that part of the translation. We are grateful for you to bring
16 that to our notice.
17 Mr. Menon, will you please slow down.
18 MR. MENON: Your Honour, I will take my learned colleague's advice
19 and I will slow down.
20 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.
21 MR. MENON:
22 Q. Now, sir, earlier this morning you testified about the brigade
23 commander of the 7th Muslim Mountain Brigade summoning all the commanders
24 of the battalions, all the commanders of the companies, and all the
25 commanders of the platoons for a meeting -- for meetings or briefings. Do
1 you recall having said this, sir?
2 A. Yes, I do.
3 Q. Sir, when, in 1993, were such meetings held?
4 A. 1993.
5 Q. But during which part of that year, sir?
6 A. This took place sometime in the month of September of 1993.
7 Q. So this was after the blockade between Travnik and Zenica had been
9 A. Yes, that's correct. We, as company commanders, had had them
10 before as well; not the platoon commanders, but the company commanders,
12 Q. Well, can you clarify that a little bit, sir. Where were these
13 company commanders meetings held?
14 A. At the brigade command at Bilmiste, in Zenica.
15 Q. And when were these meetings held, sir?
16 A. I can't give you the exact date. It depended on the possibilities
17 of reaching Zenica from Travnik. Whenever we were able to reach Zenica
18 and whenever the commander needed to talk to us to have us brief him, we
19 had such meetings. I can't tell you exactly.
20 Later on, after the blockade of the roads was lifted, we had
21 meetings in Zenica on several occasions, and then the commander discussed
22 with us the situation in the brigade as a whole, and so on and so forth.
23 Q. I'm simply referring to meetings in the first half of the year of
24 1993, sir, and my question simply is: Why would you be meeting with the
25 brigade commander? Wouldn't it be your responsibility to meet with the
1 battalion commander, as a company commander?
2 A. That's correct, we also reported to the battalion commanders.
3 However, when the brigade commander summoned battalion commanders and
4 company commanders to report to him, then all of us went there, even when
5 the platoon commanders were invited. Whenever we were summoned, my
6 battalion commander would go there, I would go there as the company
7 commander sometime, even the platoon commanders would go, because when the
8 brigade commander wanted us to report to him directly, then all of us
9 would go; namely, battalion commanders, company commanders, even platoon
10 commanders, to report about the situation in the units, and so on and so
12 Q. And who was the commander of the 7th Muslim Mountain Brigade when
13 you were having such meetings, sir?
14 A. Amir Kubura was the one who held most of the meetings with us.
15 Q. And these meetings, these large meetings, just so that I'm clear,
16 because it seems a little unclear in the transcript, these large meetings
17 with all the battalion commanders and all the company commanders and all
18 the platoon commanders, these meetings took place on or after September
19 1993; is that correct?
20 A. That was before the month of September. In the second half of
21 1993, when the Zenica-Travnik road was passable, when everybody was able
22 to come from Travnik to Zenica, and also those from Kakanj, from the 3rd
23 Battalion, were able to come, and that's when we were able to discuss our
24 work plans.
25 Q. Okay. And just so that I'm clear, sir, now, there are three
1 battalions within the 7th Muslim Mountain Brigade; correct?
2 A. Correct.
3 Q. And there were between three to four companies within each --
4 within each battalion; is that correct?
5 A. It depended on the manpower levels, if we had enough men. The
6 plans were to have at least three to four companies. Now, whether this
7 was feasible or not is a different matter. People were getting killed and
9 Q. And within each company, sir, how many platoons would there be?
10 A. By the establishment, there would be three platoons, the 1st, the
11 2nd and the 3rd.
12 Q. And so we're effectively talking about around 40 commanders
13 meeting for a particular briefing; is that correct?
14 A. Now, one would have to sum up the companies and the platoon
15 commanders. It would take me half an hour to get all the figures right.
16 Q. But a lot of people, nonetheless --
17 A. Well, yes.
18 Q. -- who were deployed in different parts within the -- within
19 Central Bosnia, within the area of responsibility of the 3rd Corps?
20 A. Which period are you referring to?
21 Q. I'm referring to the period when these meetings occurred. You
22 gave me an indication that these meetings were taking place on or around
23 June 1993, before June 1993. Maybe you can clarify that for me. When
24 exactly were these large meetings taking place, sir?
25 A. I can't give you a date. The problem is as follows: As soon as
1 the roads made it possible for us to have all the three battalions
2 together, it was decided that the 7th Muslim Brigade should continue being
3 engaged in combat with all the three battalions. Up to that point, it had
4 been pretty chaotic. One battalion would go to Bijelo Bucje, the other
5 one would go somewhere else, the 3rd Battalion would go to yet a third
6 location. So at this one meeting, the commander and all of us decided
7 that whatever was the AOR of the 3rd -- of the 7th Muslim Brigade, that it
8 should be the AOR of all the three battalions, and that wherever the 7th
9 Muslim Brigade was engaged, all three battalions should be engaged.
10 What happened was Igman was the next action, and it was decided
11 that the 1st Battalion of the 7th Muslim Brigade should go there, and
12 that's when I joined them. But for the rest, except for Igman, wherever
13 the 7th Muslim Brigade had its AOR, all the three battalions were
14 deployed. They were no longer sent into different areas.
15 Q. Well, thank you for that long explanation, sir. Can I conclude
16 from that that prior to the blockade between Zenica and Travnik having
17 been lifted, it was very unlikely that you would have participated in such
18 meetings, these large meetings in Zenica?
19 A. Before the blockade?
20 Q. Before the blockade, yes, sir.
21 JUDGE MOLOTO: The question was: Before it was lifted.
22 MR. MENON:
23 Q. Before the blockade was lifted, sir. Yes, before the blockade
24 between Travnik and Zenica was lifted, it would have been unlikely for you
25 to have participated in such large meetings in Zenica?
1 A. I participated in them only when the blockade between Zenica and
2 Travnik was lifted and when we could travel along that road. It was only
3 at that point that we took part in these briefings.
4 Q. Okay. Thank you very much for that, sir.
5 Sir, would you agree with me that the commander of the 7th Muslim
6 Mountain Brigade and the other persons who were at the command level of
7 the 7th Muslim Mountain Brigade were perhaps in a better position to
8 assess what the 7th Muslim Mountain Brigade was doing and who was a part
9 of that particular brigade?
10 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Robson.
11 MR. ROBSON: Objection, Your Honour. That question is a call for
12 speculation, in my submission.
13 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Menon.
14 MR. MENON: Your Honour, Defence counsel showed this witness a
15 number of documents -- a few documents that were authored by the
16 commander, or at least signed by the commander of the 7th Muslim Mountain
17 Brigade, and the witness testified, and those documents referred to the
18 participation of Arabs, and the witness said he knew nothing about those
19 documents and that those documents were wrong. And I'm simply trying to
20 clarify that.
21 MR. ROBSON: Your Honour, I maintain the objection, but at the
22 very least I would suggest that we would need a time frame for the
23 question as well.
24 JUDGE MOLOTO: Are you able to give a time frame, Mr. Menon?
25 MR. MENON: Yes, Your Honour, I am.
1 JUDGE MOLOTO: Give the time frame.
2 MR. MENON:
3 Q. Sir, in the first six to eight months of 1993, wouldn't you agree
4 with me that the commander of the 7th Muslim Mountain Brigade and other
5 people operating at the level of the brigade command would have been in a
6 better position to assess who was a part of that command -- excuse me, who
7 was a part of the brigade and what exactly the brigade was doing?
8 A. I wouldn't agree with you. We were the ones who reported on our
9 different activities to the brigade, telling them what we were doing and
10 what our status was, and they, in turn, issued us with orders.
11 Q. Well, sir, your answer was:
12 "We were the ones who were reporting on different activities to
13 the brigade ..."
14 As I understand your testimony, in this time period, in the first
15 six to eight months of 1993, you were a company commander. And so what
16 I'm going to put to you is that perhaps there were other commanders within
17 the 7th Muslim Mountain Brigade who were reporting things that you didn't
18 know about.
19 A. I sent reports to the battalion commander, and he, in turn, sent
20 them to the brigade commander. I don't think that information was
21 withheld within the brigade that the battalion commander would withhold
22 some information from us that we wouldn't know. I don't believe that that
23 was the case.
24 Q. Sir, you haven't answered my question. My question was simply
25 that there were -- that there were other commanders, besides yourself, who
1 were reporting things to their superiors that you would not have known
3 A. I can't answer that question.
4 Q. Why can't you answer that question, sir? Did you know everything
5 that was going on within the 7th Muslim Mountain Brigade?
6 A. I was best acquainted with the best -- with the 1st Battalion of
7 the 7th Muslim Brigade. I was pretty much familiar with the brigade as a
8 whole, but of course I could not have followed everything that was going
9 on, and I'm not able to give you the answer to your question.
10 Q. Well, sir, I think you have given me the answer. You just said:
11 "I was pretty much familiar with the brigade as a whole, but of
12 course I could not have followed everything that was going on ..."
13 And I was simply asking you whether there were things that you
14 probably would not have known about.
15 A. I don't know that there were.
16 Q. You don't know that there were what, sir?
17 A. Things that I didn't know.
18 Q. Well, sir, that means that you would have to know everything that
19 was going on within the battalion and the brigade?
20 A. It is only natural that I would not have been -- well, I'm
21 speaking generally. I knew whatever I heard at the briefings. I knew
22 what I experienced on the field. Outside of the briefings and direct
23 experience, of course I could not have been in every place at all times.
24 I followed the command-and-control system, and that's it.
25 Q. Okay. And that was simply my question, sir, again, but I think
1 you've answered it and I'm not going to put it to you again.
2 If I could just have a moment, Your Honour.
3 JUDGE MOLOTO: You do have a moment, sir.
4 MR. MENON: Your Honours, the Prosecution has no further questions
5 for this witness.
6 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.
7 Any re-examination, Mr. Robson?
8 MR. ROBSON: Your Honours, two short points, if I may.
9 Re-examination by Mr. Robson:
10 Q. Mr. Adilovic, it was put to you that there were three statements
11 that contradicted your testimony today. I'd like to show two of the
12 things which have been suggested to be statements. The first is Exhibit
13 121, if we can quickly bring that up on the screen, please. And I'm only
14 interested in the B/C/S version.
15 JUDGE MOLOTO: May I just mention that up here, our screen that is
16 supposed to show us exhibits is not working.
17 MR. ROBSON: Your Honour, I can supply hard copies, if that would
18 assist. Exhibit 121. This is it.
19 If we can go to the last page in this document, please.
20 Q. Mr. Adilovic, it was suggested that this was a statement. Is this
21 document signed at all? Do you see a signature on this page?
22 A. No, I don't see a signature, and I said that I don't -- in my
23 view, this document is not valid.
24 MR. ROBSON: And if we can look at page 1, please.
25 JUDGE MOLOTO: Which document is this, because I've got --
1 MR. ROBSON: Your Honour, this is E121 on the screen now. That's
2 what you should have.
3 JUDGE MOLOTO: We don't have you on the screen. Is that the
4 document written by Ramo Durmis?
5 MR. ROBSON: It is, Your Honour, yes.
6 JUDGE MOLOTO: Okay, fine. Then we are on the same page.
7 MR. ROBSON: Is it possible to have the entire page on the screen?
8 Q. Mr. Adilovic, do you see any stamp, or signature, or markings on
9 this page?
10 A. I don't.
11 MR. ROBSON: If we could turn to page 2, please.
12 Q. Again -- this is page 2. Again, do you see any stamps or markings
13 or official signs on this page?
14 A. I don't.
15 Q. We've studied the final page already.
16 If I can look -- last point, if we can look at Exhibit 319,
17 please, and this is the second document which was suggested to be a
18 statement that contradicted your testimony. If we can go to page 1,
20 Mr. Adilovic, we can see some handwritten markings in the top
21 right-hand corner, but do you see any stamp or official mark on this page?
22 A. I don't.
23 Q. If we can look at page 2, again, do you see any sign -- any stamp
24 or official markings?
25 A. I don't.
1 Q. Finally, if we can look at the last page of the document. Do you
2 see any signature for this document, or official markings, or stamps?
3 A. No.
4 MR. ROBSON: Thank you. I have no further questions.
5 JUDGE MOLOTO: You are very fortunate, Mr. Adilovic, that you will
6 be able to go home. This brings us to the end of your testimony. Thank
7 you very much for taking the time off your very busy schedule to come to
8 testify at this Tribunal.
9 You are now excused, and you may stand down. And please do travel
10 well back home.
11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.
12 [The witness withdrew]
13 JUDGE MOLOTO: I guess this would be a convenient time to take the
15 The matter then stands adjourned to Tuesday, the 11th of March, at
16 quarter past 2.00 in Courtroom II.
17 Court adjourned.
18 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.49 p.m.,
19 to be reconvened on Tuesday, the 11th day of
20 March, 2008, at 2.15 p.m.