Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

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1 Wednesday, 10 July 2002

2 [Open session]

3 [Initial Appearance]

4 [The accused entered court]

5 --- Upon commencing at 2.30 p.m.

6 JUDGE LIU: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Madam

7 Registrar, would you please call the case?

8 THE REGISTRAR: Yes, Your Honour. Good Afternoon. This is case

9 number IT-02-61-I, the Prosecutor versus Miroslav Deronjic.

10 JUDGE LIU: Thank you. May I have the appearances, please, for

11 the Prosecution?

12 MR. HARMON: Good afternoon, Judge Liu. My name is Mark Harmon,

13 appearing with me is Camille Bibles, Mr. Mark Vlasic and to my left Susan

14 Grogan, who is the case manager.

15 JUDGE LIU: Thank you. And for the Defence?

16 MR. HERRMANN: My name is Dietrich Herrmann. I am lawyer in

17 Berlin. I am here with Jelena Nikolic together for the defendant.

18 JUDGE LIU: We will proceed with the Initial Appearance of the,

19 accused, Miroslav Deronjic, pursuant to Rule 62 of the Rules of Procedure

20 and Evidence of the Tribunal. The indictment against Mr. Deronjic was

21 issued by the Prosecutor on the 3rd of July, 2002 and confirmed the next

22 day. On the 4th of July, 2002, an arrest warrant was issued against the

23 accused and Mr. Deronjic was transferred to the Detention Unit of the

24 International Tribunal in The Hague on Monday, 8th of July, 2002.

25 By the order of the president of the Tribunal, dated 9th July,

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1 2002, this case was assigned to Trial Chamber I, of which I'm a member.

2 Mr. Deronjic, I'll ask you some questions. Would you please stand

3 up? Can you hear the proceedings in a language that you understand?

4 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, I can.

5 JUDGE LIU: Would you please give me your full name, or any

6 nicknames for the record?

7 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] My name is Miroslav Deronjic. I

8 don't have a nickname.

9 JUDGE LIU: Thank you. What is the address at which you resided

10 before you were arrested?

11 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Bratunac, Gavrilo Princip Street,

12 number 22.

13 JUDGE LIU: What are the date and the place of your birth, please?

14 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I was born on the 6th of June, 1954,

15 in Bratunac.

16 JUDGE LIU: I see. Is your family and embassy of your state

17 informed about your arrest, as well as your transfer to the Detention Unit

18 of the Tribunal in The Hague? Or would you like the Tribunal to notify

19 any family members or the embassy?

20 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] They were present when I was

21 arrested.

22 JUDGE LIU: Thank you. You may sit down, please.

23 Mr. Herrmann, has your client received the indictment in a

24 language he can understand?

25 MR. HERRMANN: My client received the indictment and he will not

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1 give any declaration today. He wants to wait if he decides by himself if

2 he gives later on any declaration. But not today.

3 JUDGE LIU: I see. Did you have an opportunity to discuss with

4 your client about his rights?

5 MR. HERRMANN: I had opportunity, sufficient opportunity, for

6 beginning discussion and I think for today, it's enough, what we had in

7 discussion.

8 JUDGE LIU: I see. Did you discuss about the contents of that

9 indictment with your client?

10 MR. HERRMANN: We didn't discuss the contents. We have generally

11 decided to plead not guilty today.

12 JUDGE LIU: You mean your client is ready to plead today?

13 MR. HERRMANN: To plead not guilty today.

14 JUDGE LIU: Yes, thank you. And did you discuss about the rights

15 of your clients before this Tribunal.

16 MR. HERRMANN: We discussed, I hope, all these which are necessary

17 for today. I think the discussion must be continued, but for today, we

18 are prepared.

19 JUDGE LIU: I see. I believe that it is important for your client

20 to know the rights before this Tribunal, so in this case, I will ask Madam

21 Registrar to read Article 20 and 21 to your client.

22 Madam Registrar, you may read these two articles.

23 THE REGISTRAR: Yes, Your Honour.

24 Article 20: Commencement and conduct of trial proceedings. The

25 Trial Chambers shall ensure that a trial is fair and expeditious and that

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1 proceedings are conducted in accordance with the Rules of Procedure and

2 Evidence, with full respect for the rights of the accused and due regard

3 for the protection of victims and witnesses.

4 A person against whom an indictment has been confirmed shall,

5 pursuant to it an order or an arrest warrant of the International

6 Tribunal, be taken into custody, immediately informed of the charges

7 against him, and transferred to the International Tribunal. The Trial

8 Chamber shall read the indictment, satisfy itself that the rights of the

9 accused are respected, confirm that the accused understands the

10 indictment, and instruct the accused to enter a plea. The Trial Chamber

11 shall then set a date for trial. The hearing shall be public unless the

12 Trial Chamber decides to close the proceedings in accordance with its

13 Rules of Procedure and Evidence.

14 Article 21: Rights of the accused. All persons shall be equal

15 before the International Tribunal. In the determination of charges

16 against him, the accused shall be entitled to it a fair and public hearing

17 subject to Article 22 of the Statute. The accused shall be presumed

18 innocent until proved guilty, according to the provisions of the present

19 Statute. In the determination of any charge against the accused pursuant

20 to the present Statute, the accused shall be entitled to the following

21 minimum guarantees, in full equality:

22 To be informed promptly and in detail in a language which he

23 understands of the nature and cause of the charge against him;

24 To have adequate time and facilities for the preparation of his

25 defence and to communicate with counsel of his own choosing;

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1 To be tried without undue delay, to be tried in his presence and

2 to defend himself in person or through legal assistance of his own

3 choosing. To be informed, if he does not have legal assistance, of his --

4 of this right, and to have legal assistance assigned to him in any case,

5 where the interests of justice so require and without payment by him in

6 any such case if he does not have sufficient means to pay for it;

7 To examine or have examined the witnesses against him and to

8 obtain the attendance and examination of witnesses on his behalf under the

9 same conditions as witnesses against him;

10 To have the free assistance of an interpreter if he can not

11 understand or speak the language used in the International Tribunal, not

12 to be compelled to testify against himself or to confess guilt.

13 JUDGE LIU: Thank you. I notice that the indictment contains a

14 Schedule A with the name of 65 Bosnian Muslims who are allegedly murdered

15 in the village of Glogova on the 9th of May, 1992. I suggest only the

16 indictment, without Schedule A, is read out. Is that agreeable to both

17 parties?

18 MR. HARMON: It is with the Prosecution.

19 JUDGE LIU: Thank you. Mr. Herrmann?

20 MR. HERRMANN: Yes. We agree too.

21 JUDGE LIU: Thank you very much. Madam Registrar, would you

22 please read out the indictment without Schedule A, please?

23 THE REGISTRAR: Yes, Your Honour.

24 Indictment.

25 The Prosecutor of the International Criminal Tribunal for the

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1 former Yugoslavia pursuant to her authority under Article 18 of the

2 Statute of the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia,

3 the Statute of the Tribunal, charges, Miroslav Deronjic, with crimes

4 against humanity and violations of the laws or customs of war as set forth

5 below:

6 The accused: Miroslav Deronjic, son of Milovan, was born on 6

7 June, 1945, as per indictment but in 1954 as confirmed by the accused, in

8 the Municipality of Bratunac, Bosnia and Herzegovina in 1992, during the

9 conflict in Bosnia and Herzegovina, he was president of the Bratunac

10 Municipal Board of the SDS, Serbian Democratic Party of Bosnia and

11 Herzegovina. He was appointed member of the SDS party Commission on

12 Personnel and Organisation by the Executive Board on 6 September, 1991.

13 Miroslav Deronjic was president of the Bratunac Crisis Staff in

14 May, 1992, a position that put him in effective control over the command

15 and use of the Territorial Defence, TO, of the Municipality of Bratunac on

16 9 May, 1992.

17 Individual criminal responsibility. During 9 May, 1992, attack on

18 Glogova, Miroslav Deronjic was president of the Crisis Staff of the

19 Municipality of Bratunac, an area that includes a village of Glogova and

20 was in effective control of the command and use of the TO of the

21 Municipality of Bratunac. In this capacity, on 8 May, 1992, Miroslav

22 Deronjic exercised this effective control of the TO and gave the order to

23 attack and burn the village of Glogova.

24 Miroslav Deronjic is individually criminally responsible, pursuant

25 to Article 7(1) of the Statute of the Tribunal for the crimes referred to

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1 in Articles 3 and 5 of the Statute of the Tribunal as alleged in this

2 indictment, which he planned, instigated, ordered, committed or in whose

3 planning, preparation or execution he otherwise aided and abetted.

4 Miroslav Deronjic is also criminally responsible, as superior, for

5 the acts of his subordinates pursuant to Article 7(3) of the Tribunal

6 Statute. This criminal responsibility is that of a superior for the acts

7 of subordinates, if he knew or had reason to know that his subordinates

8 were about to commit such acts or had done so and he failed to take the

9 necessary and reasonable measures to prevent such acts or to punish the

10 perpetrators thereof.

11 General allegations:

12 At all times relevant to this indictment, a state of armed

13 conflict existed in the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

14 The acts or omissions described herein, the charged crimes against

15 humanity in this indictment, were part of a widespread and systematic

16 attack on the civilian population, principally the Bosnian Muslim

17 population of Bratunac Municipality in the Republic of Bosnia and

18 Herzegovina.

19 On 9 May, 1992, Miroslav Deronjic was required to it abide by the

20 laws and customs governing the conduct of armed conflicts.

21 The general allegations contained in paragraphs 5 through 7 are

22 re-alleged and incorporated into each of the related counts of the

23 indictment.

24 Statement of the facts. The Municipality of Bratunac is located

25 in eastern Bosnia and Herzegovina and according to the 1991 census had a

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1 population of 33.619 of which 21.535 were Muslims, 11.475 Serb, 223

2 Yugoslavs, 40 Croats and 346 other nationalities. The Municipality of

3 Bratunac was of major significance to the Bosnian Serbs as it was one of

4 the municipalities within the strategic arc which the Serbs needed to link

5 the Serbian populations of Bosnia and Herzegovina to a contiguous Serbian

6 state.

7 In the spring of 1992, armed conflict between Serbs and non-Serbs

8 broke out in the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina, including in the

9 Municipality of Bratunac.

10 As part of the conflict, Bosnian Serb forces, Yugoslav People's

11 Army forces, JNA, and paramilitary forces carried out widespread and

12 systematic attacks on the civilian population of this region.

13 The Municipality of Bratunac was taken by Bosnian Serb forces on

14 17 April, 1992, and a systematic effort was launched to disarm the Bosnian

15 Muslim population of the municipality, which was completed by the end of

16 April, 1992.

17 On 9 May, 1992, Glogova was a small village located in the

18 Bratunac municipality, in the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina, a few

19 kilometres from the city of Bratunac. There were about 750 houses in

20 Glogova, which was a predominantly Bosnian Muslim village. In 1991, the

21 total population of the village was 1.913 residents of whom 1.901 were

22 Muslims, 6 Serbs, 4 Yugoslavs, 1 Croat and one other. Hereinafter, for

23 purposes of this indictment, the term Glogova refers to the Bosnian Muslim

24 part of the village of Glogova. In late April and early May of 1992, the

25 Bosnian Muslim villagers of Glogova were disarmed on at least three

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1 occasions during that time frame, Bratunac police forces and the JNA went

2 through Glogova and secured weapons from the Bosnian Muslim population.

3 On one occasion, the Bosnian Muslim population was directed to appear at a

4 meeting at the community building. Miroslav Deronjic told the gathered

5 villagers that they had to turn in their weapons. Over the next few days,

6 soldiers gathered weapons from the Bosnian Muslim residents of Glogova.

7 On the evening of 8 May, 1992, Miroslav Deronjic in his capacity

8 as president of the Crisis Staff of the Municipality of Bratunac, a

9 position which gave him effective control over the command and use of the

10 TO of the Municipality of Bratunac, gave an order to attack the village of

11 Glogova and burn it down.

12 Charges: Count 1, persecutions.

13 In May, 1992, Miroslav Deronjic individually and in concert with

14 members of the Bratunac TO who were under his effective control, planned,

15 instigated, ordered, committed or otherwise aided and abetted in the

16 planning, preparation or execution of the persecution of Bosnian Muslims

17 on political, racial or religious grounds. In the village of Glogova, in

18 the Municipality of Bratunac. In May, 1992, Miroslav Deronjic, acting in

19 concert with members of the Bratunac TO, with members of the JNA and with

20 others perpetrated persecutions in the following ways:

21 Attack on the village of Glogova. On the evening of 8 May, 1992,

22 Miroslav Deronjic, in his capacity as president of the Crisis Staff of the

23 Municipality of Bratunac, having effective control over the command and

24 use of the TO of the Municipality of Bratunac gave the order to the

25 Bratunac TO to attack and burn the village of Glogova. In the early

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1 morning hours of 9 May, 1992, members of the Bratunac TO and members of

2 the JNA and others, hereinafter "attacking forces" or "forces" refers to

3 the Bratunac TO, the JNA and others, working in concert, surrounded the

4 village of Glogova and initially bombarded it without artillery.

5 Thereafter, the attacking forces entered the village on foot and took

6 control of the village. The Bosnian Muslim villagers, who previously had

7 been disarmed, offered no resistance.

8 The attacking forces then set fire to Bosnian Muslim houses,

9 buildings and the mosque. The Bosnian Muslim portion of the village of

10 Glogova was razed to the ground. Miroslav Deronjic was present during the

11 attack on Glogova.

12 Killing of Muslim villagers from Glogova.

13 During the 9 May, 1992 attack on Glogova members of the Bratunac

14 TO, including Najdan Mladjenovic, Milo aka "Riba", Milan Zaric, Gojko

15 Radic, Drago Takic, Dusan Zivanovic, aka Dule, participate in the attack

16 on Glogova.

17 Bosnian Muslim villagers, Medo Delic, Seco Ibisevic, his wife

18 Zlatija, and Adem Junuzovic were shot and killed outside their homes by

19 members of the attacking forces. During the course of the attack, other

20 Bosnian Muslim men were executed in a similar manner near their homes by

21 members of the attacking forces.

22 During the attack, members of the attacking forces executed a

23 group of approximately 15 Bosnian Muslim men from the village of Glogova

24 on the main road near the centre of the village.

25 After the execution of the group of Bosnian Muslims referred to in

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1 paragraph 22, members of the attacking forces ordered approximately 15

2 Bosnian Muslim villagers to carry these and other bodies to the river.

3 Miroslav Deronjic was present near the riverbank when Bosnian Muslim

4 bodies were dumped. At this location a member of the attack the forces

5 executed a Bosnian Muslim villager, Jusuf Ibisivic, in the immediate

6 presence of Miroslav Deronjic. After all of the bodies were dumped into

7 the river, those Bosnian Muslim villagers who had been ordered to carry

8 the bodies were lined up by the river and executed.

9 During the attack on Glogova, members of the attacking forces

10 gathered a group of approximately 20 Bosnian Muslim men by the market in

11 Glogova. These Bosnian Muslim men were ordered to it walk to the river

12 where they were executed by members of the attacking forces on the order

13 of Najdan Mladjenovic, a member of the Bratunac TO and a subordinate of

14 Miroslav Deronjic.

15 Over 60 Bosnian Muslim men from Glogova were executed during the

16 May 9, 1992 attack. The murdered individuals include, but are not limited

17 to, those listed in Schedule A, which is attached and incorporated with

18 this indictment.

19 Destruction of property in the village of Glogova.

20 During the 9 May 1992 attack on Glogova, the attacking forces

21 bombarded Glogova with heavy artillery shells and set fire to the mosque,

22 to homes, warehouses, businesses, fields and haystacks as described

23 herein.

24 Miroslav Deronjic was present during the attack on Glogova, while

25 members of the attacking forces wantonly destroyed Bosnian Muslim homes,

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1 businesses, institutions dedicated to religion, and personal property in

2 the manner described in paragraph 26. Glogova was razed to the ground.

3 Forcible transfer of civilians from Glogova.

4 In May 1992, Miroslav Deronjic aided and abetted in the forcible

5 expulsion and transfer of the surviving Bosnian Muslims of Glogova from

6 the Municipality of Bratunac.

7 On May 9, 1992, during and immediately after the attack on

8 Glogova, Bosnian Muslim civilians were expelled from their homes and

9 forcibly transferred by subordinates of Miroslav Deronjic, that is members

10 of the Bratunac TO, from the village of Glogova, to other parts of the

11 Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina. Specifically, the women and children

12 who survived the attack were placed on buses and forcibly transported to

13 Muslim-held territory located outside the Municipality of Bratunac. The

14 surviving Bosnian Muslim men were transported to various locations in

15 Bratunac, including the Bratunac stadium and the Vuk Karadzic school.

16 The persecutions of Bosnian Muslim civilians as alleged above,

17 resulted in the elimination of the Bosnian Muslim population from Glogova

18 and resulted in the destruction of the village.

19 Miroslav Deronjic knew, or had reason to know, that members of the

20 Bratunac TO were persecuting Bosnian Muslims on political, racial or

21 religious grounds in the village of Glogova, and in the manner described

22 herein or had done so and failed to take the necessary and reasonable

23 measures to prevent such acts or to punish the perpetrators thereof.

24 By these acts and omissions, Miroslav Deronjic committed:

25 Count 1: Persecutions, a crime against humanity, punishable under

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1 Articles 5(h), 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal.

2 Counts 2 to 3: Murder. On 9th May, 1992, in the Municipality of

3 Bratunac the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina, Miroslav Deronjic, acting

4 in concert with others who shared his intent, planned, instigated,

5 ordered, committed or otherwise aided and abetted the planning,

6 preparation, or execution of the attack on the village of Glogova,

7 including the killing of over 60 Muslim civilians.

8 On 8 May, 1992, Miroslav Deronjic, in his capacity as president of

9 the Crisis Staff of the Municipality of Bratunac, gave the order to attack

10 and burn the village of Glogova.

11 On 9 May, 1992, the village of Glogova was attacked. Members of

12 the attacking forces ordered Bosnian Muslim villagers out of their homes.

13 Some Bosnian Muslim men were killed as they left their homes while the

14 remaining Bosnian Muslim villagers were directed to certain areas of the

15 village. At these locations, Bosnian Muslim men were separated from the

16 women and children and some of the men were summarily executed.

17 During the attack on Glogova, members of the Bratunac TO,

18 including Najdan Mladjenovic, Milo aka Riba, Milan Zaric, Gojko Radic,

19 Drago Takic, Dusan Zivanovic, aka Dule, participate in the attack on

20 Glogova.

21 Bosnian Muslim villagers of Glogova, Medo Delic, Seco Ibisevic,

22 his wife Zlatija and Adem Junuzovic were shot and killed outside their

23 homes by members of the attacking forces. During the course of the

24 attack, other Bosnian Muslim men were executed in a similar manner that

25 near their homes.

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1 During the attack in Glogova, members of the attacking forces

2 executed a group of approximately 15 Bosnian Muslim men on the main road

3 near the centre of the village.

4 After the execution of the group of Bosnian Muslims referred to in

5 paragraph 37, members of the attacking forces ordered approximately 15

6 Muslim villagers to carry these and other bodies to the river. Miroslav

7 Deronjic was present near the riverbank where Bosnian Muslim bodies were

8 dumped. A member of the attacking forces executed a Bosnian Muslim

9 villager, Jusuf Ibisivic, in the immediate presence of Miroslav Deronjic.

10 After all of the bodies were dumped into the river, those Bosnian Muslim

11 villagers who had been ordered to carry the bodies were executed.

12 During the attack on Glogova, members of the attacking forces

13 gathered a group of approximately 20 Bosnian Muslim men by the market in

14 the village of Glogova. These Bosnian Muslim men were ordered to walk to

15 the river where they were executed by members of the attacking forces on

16 the order of Najdan Mladjenovic a member of the Bratunac TO and a

17 subordinate of Miroslav Deronjic.

18 Over 60 Bosnian Muslim men from Glogova were executed during the 9

19 May, 1992, attack. The individuals murdered include, but are not limited

20 to, those listed in Schedule A which is attached and incorporated with

21 this indictment.

22 By these acts or omissions, Miroslav Deronjic committed:

23 Count 2: Murder, a crime against humanity, punishable under

24 Article 5(a), 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal, and.

25 Count 3: Murder, a violation of the laws or customs of war as

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1 recognised by Article 3(1)(a) of the Geneva Conventions of 1949,

2 punishable under Articles 3, 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal.

3 Counts 4 to 6, wanton destruction of cities, towns or villages,

4 destruction of institutions dedicated to religion, attack of an undefended

5 village.

6 On 9 May, 1992, in the Municipality of Bratunac, the Republic of

7 Bosnia and Herzegovina, Miroslav Deronjic, acting individually and in

8 concert with others who shared his intent, planned, instigated, ordered,

9 committed, or otherwise aided and abetted the planning, preparation, or

10 execution of an attack on Glogova, an undefended village, and the wanton

11 and extensive destruction of the Bosnian Muslim dwellings, businesses,

12 institutions dedicated to religion and personal property in the village of

13 Glogova.

14 In late April and early May, 1992, the Bosnian Muslim residents of

15 Glogova surrendered their arms to Bratunac police forces and to the JNA as

16 described in paragraph 14, and on 9 May, 1992, offered no resistance to

17 the attacking forces.

18 On 9 May, 1992, Glogova was attacked. Members of the attacking

19 forces shelled the village of Glogova and set fire to the mosque and to

20 Bosnian Muslim homes, warehouses, businesses, fields and haystacks. At

21 the end of the attack, Glogova was razed to the ground.

22 Miroslav Deronjic, in his capacity as president of the Crisis

23 Staff of the Municipality of Bratunac, a position which gave him effective

24 control over the command and use of the TO of the Municipality of

25 Bratunac, gave the order to attack Glogova. Miroslav Deronjic was present

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1 during the attack as the village was razed to the ground.

2 By these acts or omissions, Miroslav Deronjic committed:

3 Count 4: Wanton destruction of cities, towns or villages, a

4 violation of the laws or customs of war, punishable under Articles 3(b),

5 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal.

6 Count 5: Destruction of institutions dedicated to religion, a

7 violation of the laws or customs of war, punishable under Articles 3(d),

8 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal.

9 Count 6: Attack of an undefended village, a violation of the laws

10 or customs of war punishable under Articles 3(c), 7(1) and 7(3) of the

11 Statute of the Tribunal. Dated the 3rd day of July, 2002.

12 Thank you.

13 JUDGE LIU: Thank you, Madam Registrar.

14 Mr. Deronjic, I will now shortly repeat the individual charges

15 brought against you, and I will then ask you whether you plead guilty or

16 not guilty to the specific charges. Your answer in each case should be

17 guilty or not guilty, as the case may be. Is that clear to you?

18 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes.

19 JUDGE LIU: Would you please stand up, please?

20 Count 1 charges you in persecution, being a crime against

21 humanity. How do you plead, guilty or not guilty?

22 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.

23 JUDGE LIU: Count 2 charges you with murder, being a crime against

24 humanity. How do you plead, guilty or not guilty?

25 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.

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1 JUDGE LIU: Count 3 charges you with murder, as a violation of the

2 laws and the customs of war. How do you plead, guilty or not guilty?

3 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.

4 JUDGE LIU: Count 4 charges you with wanton destruction of cities,

5 towns and villages as a violation of the laws or customs of war. How do

6 you plead, guilty or not guilty?

7 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.

8 JUDGE LIU: Count 5 charges you with destruction of institutions

9 dedicated to religion as a violation of the laws or customs of war. Do

10 you plead guilty or not guilty?

11 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.

12 JUDGE LIU: Count 6 charges you with attack of an undefended

13 village as a violation of the laws and customs of war. How do you plead,

14 guilty or not guilty?

15 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.

16 JUDGE LIU: Thank you, sir. You may sit down, please.

17 May the Registrar please take note that Mr. Deronjic has pleaded

18 not guilty to all the counts of the indictment.

19 The Registrar will be instructed to fix a date for trial when

20 appropriate.

21 The accused is to remain in custody until further order. He may,

22 however, file a motion on provisional release pursuant to Rule 65 of the

23 Rules of Procedure and Evidence of the Tribunal, after consultation with

24 his counsel.

25 The Defence is advised that it will have 30 days period for filing

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1 any preliminary motions once it has received all the supporting material

2 in accordance with Rule 66 of the Rules of Procedure and Evidence.

3 Mr. Herrmann, are you representing Mr. Deronjic only in this

4 hearing or also afterwards?

5 MR. HERRMANN: I will represent the accused in the following case.

6 JUDGE LIU: Well, in any case, you should be available for

7 consultation in respect of any preliminary motions of the accused until a

8 permanent Defence counsel has been assigned. Thank you.

9 Is there any other matters that the defence wishes to raise at

10 this stage?

11 MR. HERRMANN: Your Honour, will you give us the possibility, we

12 would give a declaration in a closed session by reasons of Rule 79(A)(3)

13 of the interests of justice. It depends in the manner of the arrest with

14 that accused.

15 JUDGE LIU: Any response from the Prosecution? Mr. Harmon?

16 MR. HARMON: I have no objection. I'm just consulting with Rule

17 79 as cited by counsel. I have no objection to a session as requested by

18 my colleague from the Defence.

19 JUDGE LIU: Well, Mr. Herrmann, generally speaking, all the

20 hearings should be conducted in open session unless there is some

21 protective measures or state secrets which should be confined within this

22 courtroom. So you are still insisting for the application after closed

23 session?

24 MR. HERRMANN: I would like if possible to have a closed session

25 to bring to the Court some points, as I said, connecting the arrest

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1 conditions and circumstances.

2 JUDGE LIU: Yes. We will hear the complaints made by you, or by

3 the accused through you, on this very issue, and I also have to remind you

4 that later on, you have the full opportunity to submit the written

5 submissions to this Trial Chamber. But any way, we will hear briefly

6 about what you are going to inform us, and your motion for the closed

7 session is granted. We will go to closed session.

8 MR. HARMON: Your Honour, perhaps a private session would suffice,

9 would not require the blinds to be drawn.

10 JUDGE LIU: Yes.

11 MR. HARMON: And still have the matters revealed confidentially by

12 Defence counsel.

13 JUDGE LIU: Very good. We will go to the private session, please.

14 [Private session]

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1 [Open session]

2 JUDGE LIU: Now I would like to turn to the Prosecution. I would

3 also like to remind the Prosecution that pursuant to Rule 66 of the Rules

4 of Procedure and Evidence, it has 30 days to disclose all the supporting

5 material with the indictment.

6 Mr. Harmon, can you indicate to the Defence when you will be able

7 to fulfil your disclosure obligation?

8 MR. HARMON: Your Honour, I was before the proceedings started, I

9 had at hand the materials, supporting materials, for the indictment, which

10 I offered to my colleagues from the Defence. I was informed by them that

11 they are temporary counsel for purposes of this hearing only and they

12 prefer that I wait until permanent counsel has been assigned. So I am

13 unclear, given Mr. Herrmann's answer to your question, whether he intends

14 to be permanent counsel in the defence of Mr. Deronjic or he is only

15 temporary counsel. In any event, for the record, Judge Liu, we have those

16 materials here today, we are prepared to disclose them to counsel, or

17 alternatively prepared to give them to the defendant himself.

18 JUDGE LIU: Thank you very much. Are those materials translated

19 into the language that the accused understands?

20 MR. HARMON: They are.

21 JUDGE LIU: Thank you very much. Is there any other matters that

22 you would like to bring up at this stage?

23 MR. HARMON: No, other than the clarification on whether

24 Mr. Herrmann is the counsel and will be the permanent counsel.

25 JUDGE LIU: I see. Thank you. In furtherance of expeditious

Page 24

1 administration of the case, the Trial Chamber has decided to it assign

2 Honourable Judge Mohamed El Mahdi as the Pre-Trial Judge for these

3 proceedings. The Pre-Trial Judge will schedule a Status Conference within

4 120 days from today pursuant to Rule 65 bis(A) of the Rules of Procedure

5 and Evidence, to facilitate the preparation of the trial.

6 We will now adjourn the proceedings.

7 --- Whereupon the Initial Appearance

8 adjourned at 3.17 p.m.

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