1 Monday, 2 February 2009
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 --- Upon commencing at 2.16 p.m.
5 JUDGE PARKER: Good afternoon.
6 If the case for hearing could be called, please.
7 THE REGISTRAR: Good afternoon, Your Honours. This is
8 case number IT-05-87/1-T, the Prosecutor versus Vlastimir Djordjevic.
9 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.
10 If the witness, who's parted, could be brought in.
11 While that's happening, could the Chamber mention that on
12 Friday -- sorry, on Wednesday of this week, we've been asked by another
13 Trial Chamber to switch sittings with them because they have a
14 difficulty, and because of that we will sit in the afternoon of Wednesday
15 rather than in the morning.
16 Closed session for the witness's entry, please.
17 [Closed session]
2 [Open session]
3 THE REGISTRAR: We're in open session, Your Honours.
4 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Stamp.
5 MR. STAMP: Thank you very much, Your Honours, and good
7 Examination by Mr. Stamp: [Continued]
8 Q. And good afternoon to you, K83.
9 A. Good afternoon.
10 Q. Last time you were here you were speaking about Todor Jovanovic,
11 who brought Jashar Berisha from the police station to the vicinity of the
12 pizzeria. Did Jashar arrive with Jovanovic willingly or did he appear to
13 be unwilling?
14 A. He was brought there against his will.
15 Q. Thank you. Now could we move on to the next day. That day, did
16 you see Todor Jovanovic?
17 A. Yes, I did.
18 Q. Do you know what he was doing the next day, that's the 27th of
19 March, if anything?
20 A. On that day, well, since the gasoline station was not working, we
21 went on orders of Commander Repanovic to get Jashar Berisha to come and
22 open the gasoline station.
23 Q. Which day are you speaking about?
24 A. Well, I cannot remember the exact date, but it's that day.
25 Q. The day of the shooting in the pizzeria?
1 A. Yes, that's right.
2 Q. I see. Now if we could move on to the day after that. Did you
3 observe whether or not Jovanovic was involved in any investigations at
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Could you tell us about that? What was he doing the next day,
7 that day?
8 A. On that day, I mean, well, the crime technician took pictures of
9 the corpses and took the details.
10 Q. Which corpses were these? Do you know -- let me clarify. Do you
11 know what caused the death of these corpses or what circumstances these
12 people were killed?
13 A. Well, they had been killed.
14 Q. Where were these corpses located?
15 A. Well, they were there by the pizzeria, the road towards Rastane
16 and behind the OSCE house.
17 Q. No. I'm asking you precisely, K83, which corpses did you see --
18 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Djurdjic.
19 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Objection, Your Honour. The
20 witness stated where he had gone with the investigation team and where
21 the corpses were. The Prosecutor is trying to get the witness to give
22 him the answer that he wants, and the witness gave a very specific answer
23 already, where he was with the investigation team. Thank you.
24 JUDGE PARKER: Well --
25 MR. STAMP: The witness has not said where he was with the
1 investigation team.
2 JUDGE PARKER: I think, gentlemen, we are being very --
3 shadow-sparring over something that is not a significant issue, unless I
4 misunderstand things. I will ask a question of the witness which might
5 clarify this and allow us to move on.
6 You're speaking of corpses on the 27th of March. In your
7 evidence on Friday you described the killing of a number of people, two
8 by the OSCE house and others at or in the vicinity of the pizzeria. The
9 corpses that were photographed on the 27th of March, are they the same
10 corpses that had been killed the previous day or are they different
12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] All the corpses were photographed,
13 and Dr. Boban established that all the corpses were dead.
14 JUDGE PARKER: I think you are misunderstanding the issue. Maybe
15 I didn't put it clearly enough. We're just wanting to know whether these
16 are the people that you saw killed the previous day or are they different
17 people that were photographed on the 27th of March?
18 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] On the 27th of March, other people
19 were also photographed, people who weren't by the pizzeria.
20 JUDGE PARKER: The people who were killed on the 26th of March,
21 were they photographed by the crime technician on the 27th of March?
22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.
23 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.
24 MR. STAMP:
25 Q. You said you saw the people who were killed at the pizzeria,
1 their bodies placed into trucks which were driven away. Do you recall
2 saying that, K83?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Where were they photographed?
5 A. Right there by the pizzeria.
6 Q. Okay. Maybe there is some confusion on the dates. Were they
7 photographed on the same day that they were killed or were they
8 photographed on another day?
9 A. Those in front of the pizzeria were photographed on that day,
10 whereas the other ones on the road towards Rastane were photographed on
11 the following day, and they were buried out there in the cemetery, under
12 the codes that were already there.
13 Q. Very well. Now I'd like to focus on those who were photographed
14 on the following day, that is, those who were killed on the road to
15 Rastane, and I think you said there were some others in the vicinity of
16 the OSCE house. Were there corpses in the vicinity of the OSCE house
17 that was photographed the day after the killing at the pizzeria, that is,
18 the 27th of March?
19 A. I didn't understand that question.
20 Q. I just want to clarify something that I think you might have
21 said. The day after the incident in the pizzeria, some bodies were
22 photographed. Were the bodies that were photographed the day after the
23 killing in the pizzeria inclusive of bodies that were at the vicinity of
24 the OSCE house?
25 A. Yes.
1 Q. Good. Now I'd like to focus on these bodies that were
2 photographed on the 27th, that's the day after the pizzeria incident.
3 Were these persons civilians or not?
4 A. Yes, they were civilians.
5 Q. Do you know the circumstances of how these persons came to be
6 killed? And that's apart from the four that you saw being shot.
7 JUDGE PARKER: Yes, Mr. Djurdjic.
8 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Objection, Your Honour. First of
9 all, the witness has to say about what corpses he is talking. It's not
10 for the Prosecutor to infer that these are different corpses in relation
11 to the ones by the OSCE house.
12 JUDGE PARKER: We do seem to be getting into some confusion,
13 Mr. Stamp, and Mr. Djurdjic is correctly asking that you not lead the
14 witness about this matter, so that if you could be careful. I don't
15 think that my questioning helped, in reflection, and I think that the
16 witness has it clear in his mind but we are not managing to get from him
17 what it is that is clear in his mind, so if you'd like to spend a little
18 moment trying to clarify what he says about the matter.
19 MR. STAMP: Thank you, Your Honour.
20 Q. You said, K83, that --
21 JUDGE PARKER: The witness is M83, if I could mention. K?
22 MR. STAMP: K83.
23 JUDGE PARKER: I have him wrongly noted as M38. We're having a
24 good afternoon, Mr. Stamp. Very well, K.
25 MR. STAMP: Very well, Your Honour.
1 Q. In respect to the bodies that you saw photographed the next day,
2 the day after the pizzeria killings, in the vicinity of the OSCE house,
3 do you know the circumstances of how those persons came to be killed?
4 Do you understand what I just asked or would you like me to
5 repeat it?
6 A. I don't understand that question.
7 Q. The bodies that were photographed in the vicinity of the OSCE
8 house, what caused their death or the death of these people?
9 A. Well, they had been killed.
10 Q. Do you know by whom or what, in what circumstances?
11 A. Well, I couldn't see everything.
12 Q. I'm asking if you know the circumstances that brought about their
14 A. They were killed by gun-fire from a rifle, I mean.
15 Q. Do you know who shot them?
16 A. Well, there were quite a few policemen. I couldn't see everyone.
17 Q. So based on what you observed, can you help us as to who shot
18 these people?
19 A. Well, the police.
20 Q. You said they were photographed on the 26th. Do you know when
21 they were shot, that is, the date when they were shot?
22 A. I could not say exactly.
23 JUDGE PARKER: Yes, Mr. Djurdjic.
24 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Objection. Objection,
25 Your Honour. The witness is talking about the 27th and the honourable
1 Prosecutor says that these corpses were photographed on the 26th. I
2 would kindly ask that a precise question be put.
3 MR. STAMP: That is correct. I'm referring to their being
4 photographed -- the corpses that were photographed on the 27th.
5 Q. So may I rephrase the question, K83. Those persons whose bodies
6 were photographed in the vicinity of the OSCE house on the 27th, do you
7 know the day - I'm not asking you for the precise time - but the day when
8 they were shot?
9 A. Well, the day is the 26th.
10 Q. Now, during 1999, that is, the year 1999, and the year 2000, do
11 you know if any of the police involved in these massacres were arrested
12 or charged? I'm only asking you about 1999 and 2000, not what happened
13 after, if anything happened after.
14 A. I don't know. I really could not say exactly.
15 Q. Did Cukaric remain in the police force during the war?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Did Tanovic remain in the police force during the war?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Did Vitosevic and Repanovic, as head of the police station and
20 commander respectively, remain in their posts during the war?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. You mentioned Cegar 1, their commander. Do you know the name of
23 the commander of Cegar 1? Let me rephrase. You saw the Cegar unit that
24 you saw alighting from two armoured vehicles, and you said that Cegar 1
25 was your commander. Do you know the name of Cegar 1?
1 A. Mitrovic. Mitrovic, that's his last name. I can't remember his
2 first name. I think it's Rado Mitrovic, I think.
3 Q. During the war in 1999, had you ever seen him at the police
5 A. Yes. He came often to see the commander, Radojko Repanovic. He
6 came to sort of meetings, discussions.
7 Q. Do you know if he had an office or do you know where he was
9 A. I don't know exactly where he was posted, but I know -- well, I
10 saw him often because I was on the commander's security detail. I saw
11 him often. I saw him coming to the police station.
12 Q. Do you know if he remained in his position as head of the unit
13 during the war?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And do you know whether or not he was prosecuted for anything in
16 relation to these killings during 1999 and 2000?
17 A. I don't know about 1999 and 2000, but I know that he's detained
19 Q. Yes. There is a case going on now in Serbia in respect to the
20 killings in the pizzeria; is that correct?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Just one or two areas I'd like to tie up before I sit. You said
23 that -- or perhaps I should ask a more open question. Did Cukaric have
24 any communications equipment with him on the day of the 26th?
25 A. Yes, yes. He had radio communications equipment, that is to say,
1 two devices, two Motorolas.
2 Q. And in the course of the events during the 26th, from the time
3 when Cegar 1 told you to get moving to the killings at the pizzeria, did
4 he use those Motorolas?
5 A. Well, he did use them, but he would always move away from us so
6 that we couldn't listen in to what he was saying while he was having
7 those conversations.
8 Q. In the course of the events of the 26th, during the time-frame
9 that I just mentioned, at what stage did he use the Motorolas?
10 A. Well, I have trouble hearing what the interpreters are saying.
11 The sound is not too good.
12 Q. During the events leading up to the killing in the pizzeria, at
13 what stage did he use the Motorolas?
14 A. Well, he used it after everything was done, after all those
15 people had been killed in the pizzeria.
16 Q. I'd like to take you back to the time when you, Tanovic, Cukaric,
17 and your other colleague, I think it's Petrovic, were drinking the liquor
18 that you had brought. Did Cukaric at that time or Tanovic say what they
19 intended to do?
20 A. Well, as far as I can recall, they didn't make any comments as to
21 what they would do, and I was really surprised when he broke the shop
22 window all of a sudden.
23 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, the witness has
24 already answered that question. In fact, he answered it on Friday, so
25 this is asked and answered.
1 JUDGE PARKER: I don't think that Mr. Stamp can be criticised for
2 unnecessarily going over evidence again at the moment. He is clarifying
3 one or two matters which concern him, as I understand it.
4 MR. STAMP: Indeed.
5 JUDGE PARKER: So please continue, Mr. Stamp.
6 MR. STAMP: Thank you, Your Honour.
7 Q. After Tanovic and Cukaric shot into the pizzeria, did either of
8 them say anything to you in respect to the shooting of these people?
9 A. Well, he didn't say anything. He just said that we should take
10 shelter because he would throw a hand-grenade, because of the explosion,
11 lest any of us should be injured.
12 Q. Yes. And what I was asking is after the hand-grenades were
13 thrown and the shooting into the pizzeria by both Tanovic and Cukaric,
14 did they ask you to do anything in respect to -- or ask you if you wanted
15 to do anything in respect to the shooting of these people?
16 A. Well, they asked me if I wanted to take part, but I had known
17 these people and I couldn't do it.
18 Q. And the people who were shot in the pizzeria, what ethnicity were
20 A. Albanian.
21 Q. Thank you very much, K83. That is all I have, subject to
22 His Honour. You will probably be asked questions by other parties here.
23 MR. STAMP: Thank you very much, Your Honours. That is all I
24 have in-chief, may it please you.
25 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you, Mr. Stamp.
1 Mr. Djurdjic, do you have cross-examination?
2 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. I will
3 have some questions for this witness.
4 Cross-examination by Mr. Djurdjic:
5 Q. [Interpretation] Sir, my name is Veljko Djurdjic, and I'm a
6 member of Mr. Vlastimir Djordjevic's Defence team. He is the accused in
7 this case. Together with me is Ms. Marie O'Leary, as a team member, and
8 lead counsel Dragoljub Djordjevic is away because he has some work on the
10 I would like to go on addressing you as sir. Is that all right
11 with you?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Since we speak the same language, could I ask you please to speak
14 more slowly and to make a pause before you start giving your answers so
15 that the interpreters are able to interpret both my question and your
17 A. Fine, yes.
18 Q. If we could perhaps speed up this cross-examination by me asking
19 you questions and you answering briefly with either yes or no, if you
20 can. If you don't understand my question, please let me know and I will
21 either rephrase or state it in more -- in clearer terms. Can we then
23 A. Yes.
24 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have Exhibit P269.
25 Q. Sir, I hope you recognise this picture. Do you see the church
1 and the church tower here, or spire?
2 A. Well, I can't see it. Rather, you can see the place where it
3 used to be, but we can't see it.
4 Q. Could you please mark the location where the church used to be
5 and put number 1 next to it, and if you could also mark the location of
6 the spire and put number 2 next to it.
7 A. [Marks]
8 Q. What did you mark with number 1?
9 A. The spire.
10 Q. And number 2, that's the church?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Thank you. The church and the spire, were they in existence on
13 the 26th of March, 1999?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. When did you leave Suva Reka?
16 A. In 1999, it was in June. I don't know the exact date.
17 Q. Thank you. Could you please tell me, as you were leaving
18 Suva Reka were the church and the spire still there?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Am I right if I say that this photograph was taken after you had
21 already left Suva Reka, or after June 1999?
22 A. Yes, that's correct.
23 Q. Thank you.
24 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I would like to tender this
25 document into evidence and I would like to get a number for it, please.
1 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.
2 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.
3 THE REGISTRAR: That will be Exhibit D00008, Your Honours.
4 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]
5 Q. Sir, you told us that you completed secondary education. Could
6 you please tell us, what kind of secondary school and what is your
8 A. I --
9 MR. STAMP: Excuse me. Let us -- I just rise because I'd like to
10 remind counsel and the witness also that in answering they should be
11 careful not to say anything in open session that might disclose his
12 identity. So I really just rise at this point --
13 JUDGE PARKER: I don't think this is likely to, Mr. Stamp. Thank
14 you for your caution.
15 Carry on, please, Mr. Djurdjic.
16 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]
17 Q. Could you please give us your answer?
18 A. I completed secondary school for car electricians.
19 Q. We don't have to go into private session, but could you please
20 tell us when you got the job that you did get in the end, what kind of
21 work did you do?
22 A. I worked in the warehouse where finished goods were stored.
23 Q. Thank you. Is it true that when you joined the reserve force in
24 1994 of the Suva Reka MUP that you actually completed training for police
1 A. No, I did not complete the training, but we did get some
2 training, some drills, at the Prizren training area and that counted as
3 some kind of training.
4 Q. Thank you. Is it true that when you became active in the reserve
5 force that you were an authorised official and that you acted as a
6 policeman with the assistance of regular-duty police officers who had
7 more experience?
8 A. Yes, that's true.
9 Q. Thank you. Let us try to explain the organisation of the police
10 in the Prizren area. Would you agree with me that the Prizren SUP was
11 superior to the OUP Suva Reka, the OUP Dragas, and the Opalje station,
12 and that it took care of internal affairs in the areas of those
14 A. Yes, that's correct.
15 Q. Thank you. Is it true that the -- the OUP Suva Reka took care of
16 internal affairs in the area of the municipality of Suva Reka
17 also included the police station, the crime-fighting section, and the
18 general affairs section and administrative affairs section?
19 A. Yes, that's right.
20 Q. Is it true that the OUP Suva Reka was run by the chief and that
21 the commander was in charge of the police station?
22 A. Yes, that's true.
23 Q. Am I right when I say that the commander of the police station in
24 Suva Reka was responsible for his work to the chief of the OUP in
25 Suva Reka and that the chief of the OUP Suva Reka was in turn responsible
1 for his work to the chief of the Prizren SUP?
2 A. Yes, I think that was the case.
3 Q. Is it true that the same building housed both the Suva Reka OUP
4 and also the State Security Department section for Prizren, which was in
5 the same building but in a separate area?
6 A. Yes, that's right.
7 Q. Is it true that the Suva Reka OUP was part of the Public Security
8 Department and that it had nothing to do with the State Security
9 Department of Prizren?
10 A. Well, I don't know. I'm not --
11 Q. Fair enough. Is it true that the -- that Vitosevic, the chief of
12 the OUP Suva Reka, could not issue any orders to the head of the branch
13 office of the State Security Department in Suva Reka?
14 A. Yes, that's right.
15 Q. Am I right when I say that the PJP units, and Cegar's were part
16 of it, were not part of the Suva Reka OUP, did not carry out regular
17 security police work in the Suva Reka area?
18 A. Well, they did belong -- or, rather, they were assisting the PJP
19 but they were not under the command of the Suva Reka OUP.
20 Q. You answered a different question, but what I wanted to ask you
21 is whether they patrolled around Suva Reka, whether they kept watch in
23 do beat work?
24 A. Well, they were assisting there in Suva Reka.
25 Q. Could you please answer my question? Give me a direct answer.
1 Did they do the kind of work that the police did, the police that you
2 were a member of in Suva Reka?
3 A. Yes, they did.
4 Q. So you went with them to do patrols, patrol duty --
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. -- in Suva Reka, to the post office, to the bank?
7 A. No. We went to Dulje and --
8 Q. Well, that's -- I didn't ask you about the hard patrols, as they
9 were known. I was asking you about what beat patrols, securing the
10 police station, regular police duties.
11 A. No, no, they were not with us.
12 Q. Thank you. Am I right when I say that the leaders of the PJP
13 were completely separate from the leaders of the Suva Reka OUP?
14 A. Yes, that's correct.
15 Q. Am I right when I say that the Cegars were only temporarily
16 housed in Suva Reka, and only at times?
17 A. Yes, that's true.
18 Q. Thank you. Is it true that before the 26th of March, 1999
19 after the 26th of March, 1999, you never took part in any joint activity
20 with the Cegars or with another PJP unit?
21 A. Yes, that's correct.
22 Q. Thank you. Is it correct that on the 26th of March, 1999
23 morning when you took your duty, that no joint activities were
24 anticipated with Cegars; is that correct?
25 A. Yes.
1 Q. Thank you. Is it correct that on the 26th of March, 1999
2 member of a patrol, in the morning, you received the task to take food,
3 water and ammunition to your colleagues, police officers, who were
4 securing the Prizren-Suva Reka road in the Dzinovce village.
5 A. Yes, that's correct.
6 Q. Is it true that you were surprised when, on your way back to --
7 from the village of Dzinovce
8 trucks parked in front of the police station and police officers in green
9 camouflage uniform were getting off those trucks?
10 A. Yes, that's true.
11 Q. Am I right if I say that you did not know that they would come?
12 A. Yes, you're right.
13 Q. Is it true that as you were looking at those police officers who
14 had come in and who were moving down the Rastane road, that a jeep
15 arrived from the direction of Prizren, stopped at the place that you
16 marked on the map or, rather, on the photograph, and a person got out and
17 you said that this was Cegar 1.
18 A. Yes, that's true.
19 Q. Is it true that you did not know and that you were surprised to
20 see Cegar 1 come in front of the Suva Reka OUP at that time?
21 A. Yes, that's true. We didn't know that. We didn't even assume
22 that he would.
23 Q. Thank you. Is it true that Cegar 1 headed towards you and that
24 the assistants -- the assistant started to salute him, in accordance with
25 the rules?
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Is it true that Cegar 1 started shouting at the assistant?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Is it true that the assistant was caught by surprise and confused
5 at this conduct by Cegar 1?
6 A. Yes, that's true.
7 Q. Is it true that Cegar 1 did not order you to go out and kill
8 Albanian civilians as you were standing in front of the OUP Suva Reka, in
9 the street there?
10 A. Yes, that's true.
11 Q. Is it true that Cegar 1 did not order you to burn houses
12 belonging to Albanian civilians as you stood there in the street, in
13 front of the Suva Reka OUP?
14 A. Yes, that's true.
15 Q. Is it true that Cegar 1 did not order you to evict Albanian
16 civilians from their homes as you stood there in the street, in front of
17 the Suva
18 A. Yes, that's true. He didn't issue any orders to us.
19 Q. Thank you. Is it true that at that critical occasion Cegar did
20 not order you to loot Albanian houses and to rob Albanian civilians?
21 A. Yes, that's true.
22 Q. Is it true that the assistant was quite confused and that he told
23 you, "Okay, move on"?
24 A. Yes, precisely.
25 Q. Is it true that you didn't know what you were supposed to do?
1 A. Yes. You are right.
2 Q. Is it true that the assistant did not order you to kill Albanian
4 A. Precisely.
5 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please look at
6 Exhibit D001-3214. Now I would like you to zoom in this area between the
7 white house and the house that is behind it, to the right. Yes, yes,
8 precisely, this area here. Could you please zoom in a couple of times,
9 this area between the two houses. Thank you.
10 Q. Is it true, sir, that on the 26th of March, as you stood between
11 the Berisha houses, you did not see any tanks, any military vehicles, or
12 any military personnel?
13 A. Military vehicles and military personnel?
14 Q. Yes, yes.
15 A. No, I didn't see any out there.
16 Q. Does that mean that your answer to my question is yes?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Is it true that in the course of the event that you described for
19 us, the 26th of March incidents, around the houses that belonged to the
20 Berisha family, there were no Roma or any other civilians?
21 A. There weren't any.
22 Q. Thank you. Is it true that on the critical day and at the
23 critical place you did not see Milorad Nisavic, called "Nisavic" by
24 Albanians, at that place?
25 A. I didn't see him.
1 Q. Is it true that Zoran Petkovic, Miki Petkovic's brother, and
2 Miki Petkovic was with you in the patrol, that he did not belong to the
4 A. Yes, that's true.
5 Q. Is it true that on the critical occasion Zoran Petkovic was not
6 with you?
7 A. Zoran Petkovic was not with me. I'm sure about that.
8 Q. Thank you. Now I would like you to mark on this photograph the
9 location where you stood when the fire started, the gun-fire started, the
10 location where Miki Petkovic stood, where Cukaric stood, where Tanovic
11 stood, and -- well, that's it for now. So if you could mark the spot
12 where you were with number 1.
13 A. [Marks]
14 Q. Number 2, that would be what?
15 A. Petkovic.
16 Q. Thank you.
17 A. Cukaric. And number 4, that's behind the house.
18 Q. Thank you. Could you please mark the spots where the four
19 Albanians were standing with an X, if you can see that place, the place
20 where they were killed.
21 A. That's behind the white house here.
22 Q. Okay. So you can't see that place. Okay, very well. Thank you.
23 Could you now mark the path that you took, since now we have this
24 image on our screens, as you went to see where the Albanian civilians
25 were heading?
1 A. [Marks]
2 Q. Thank you.
3 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please.
4 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I would just like -- Your Honours,
5 I would like to tender this document into evidence, and if I could get an
6 exhibit number.
7 JUDGE PARKER: First we'll receive the original photograph as an
8 exhibit, Mr. Djurdjic.
9 THE REGISTRAR: The coloured photograph with document ID
10 D001-3214, Your Honours, will be given D00009.
11 JUDGE PARKER: And then the marked photograph?
12 THE REGISTRAR: That will be D00010, Your Honours.
13 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, now I would like to
14 ask the usher for his assistance. Could we scroll down -- yes. Yes,
15 fine, and -- right. Yes, yes. Let's have this photograph there.
16 Q. Witness, you described to us the path that you had taken --
17 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Or, rather, let's try to zoom in
18 here, the place where the house is, across the road. Could we zoom in on
19 that? No, no, no, no. Up, up, up, up, right, right, right. Yes, yes.
20 Let's try that. Yes, right. Thank you.
21 Q. Could you mark the way you went afterwards?
22 A. Here, here, and here.
23 Q. I do apologise. Did you continue moving or did you stop there?
24 A. I continued moving until I got to the pizzeria.
25 Q. Sorry, since I don't know -- well, we see that you stopped here
1 and there are some shops down there; right? We can see that.
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Is that where the pizzeria is?
4 A. Not yet. Not yet. The pizzeria is further on.
5 Q. Further on. So it cannot be seen?
6 A. Well, it continues over here. Do you want me to go on?
7 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I would kindly ask that this
8 photograph be admitted into evidence as well, up to this point that was
9 marked by the witness.
10 JUDGE PARKER: It's not clear to me, Mr. Djurdjic, why the
11 witness is stopped at this point. Is it because he stopped there or has
12 he just stopped marking? Can we clarify that with the witness?
13 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I can, Your Honour, because I
14 don't understand either.
15 Q. Witness, please, could you mark on this part of the photograph
16 where you went in order to get to the pizzeria. What route was that?
17 A. Well, this is it.
18 Q. Thank you.
19 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Now I think that on this
20 photograph we have -- well, actually, let's try to zoom out, say, once or
22 JUDGE PARKER: We can't do that, I'm afraid. We would lose the
24 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Very well. Then I suggest that we
25 admit into evidence the photograph as marked up to this point.
1 JUDGE PARKER: Can I clarify with the witness, Mr. Djurdjic?
2 Can you tell us, where you have stopped marking, is that the
3 location of the pizzeria or is the pizzeria still further on, off the
5 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The pizzeria cannot be seen on the
6 photograph, but this is the road leading to the pizzeria, practically to
7 the very corner.
8 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.
9 It will be received.
10 THE REGISTRAR: That will be D00011, Your Honours.
11 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I do apologise, Your Honours. We
12 zoomed in in order to see the road better and that is why we cannot see
13 the entire road that goes to the pizzeria, and that's why I'm asking --
14 oh, yes, thank you. This is it.
15 Q. So now I would like to ask: You see the white gasoline station
17 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] So over there, could we zoom in.
18 No, no, no, not here. There, right. Yes, thank you. Right. A few
19 times, one, two, three. No, let's go back. It's too large now. No, no,
20 can -- yes, yes, thank you, yes.
21 Q. Now, Witness, could you -- could you mark the route that you took
22 and can you show us, if you can, where the pizzeria is?
23 A. From the OSCE house to the pizzeria, you mean?
24 Q. No, from the point where we stopped - I think that you remember
25 that - and then we can go on, or also since we can see the OSCE house,
1 then you can show us from the OSCE house all the way.
2 A. [Marks]
3 Q. Now I would like to ask -- well, actually, can the pizzeria be
4 seen here?
5 A. The pizzeria is here. Here.
6 Q. Could you put an X there at that point and could you take the
7 line all the way to that X?
8 A. All right.
9 Q. Is it correct that you did not force the Albanian civilians to
10 enter the pizzeria?
11 A. Yes, that's correct.
12 Q. Is it correct that when you got to the pizzeria there were no
13 policemen or other persons there when the Albanian civilians entered the
15 A. That's correct.
16 Q. Is it correct that the Albanian civilians were locked in the
17 pizzeria once you got there?
18 A. Yes, that's correct.
19 Q. Is it correct that in front of the pizzeria there weren't any
20 other policemen or other persons, when you arrived in front of the
21 pizzeria together with the members of the patrol - Tanovic, Cukaric, and
22 Miki Petkovic - and after you had been drinking?
23 A. Yes, exactly.
24 Q. Now I would like to ask you to mark the place where you saw two
25 wounded civilians and to mark that with number 1. How about that?
1 A. [Marks]
2 Q. Thank you. Could you please mark the place -- oh, no, actually
3 you've already done that. The cafe, yes, we've marked that with an X.
4 Now, let us ask you -- actually, I think you did say that this
5 was the cafe where you got the drinks.
6 A. It's right next to this, the --
7 Q. Could you place number 2? It doesn't really matter on which
9 A. That's it.
10 Q. Thank you. Now I'd like to ask you to mark the place where you
11 had that drink, if it is outside location number 2.
12 A. What number should I use to mark it?
13 Q. Number 3.
14 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreters cannot hear the witness. He
15 is not speaking into the microphone.
16 MR. DJURDJIC:
17 Q. [Interpretation] Thank you.
18 JUDGE PARKER: Could you repeat what you just said? The
19 interpreters didn't hear it.
20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I asked what number I should use to
21 mark this place where we were drinking alcohol. Is that what you meant?
22 JUDGE PARKER: Yes. And you've done that and it's marked as
23 number 3.
24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.
25 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.
1 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I would kindly ask Your Honours to
2 admit this into evidence as an exhibit.
3 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.
4 THE REGISTRAR: That will be D00012, Your Honours.
5 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Now I would like to ask to call up
6 on our screens D001-3114. I think that I made a mistake. Actually,
7 let's try -- I mean, could you zoom in on the white -- again -- right.
8 3215? No, sorry. Yes, 5. Now, could you zoom in here on the left-hand
9 side where the road is? No, no, no, down, down, down here, right. Yes,
10 down there. Yes, yes, yes. Can we see that? Yes. A bit more, a bit
11 more. Yes. Now we don't see the street.
12 All right. 3215, could we have that one now, please, instead of
13 this image. D001-3215. Could you zoom out, please. The green house
14 here that is parallel to the gasoline station, yes, down there, yes, can
15 we zoom in there. Could we have that enlarged? Yes. One more time.
16 Yes. Thank you, thank you. Excellent.
17 Q. Witness, can you see it better now, I mean that pizzeria?
18 A. Yes, sort of, in part. Well --
19 Q. Could you please now mark the place where the pizzeria is with
20 the number 1.
21 A. [Marks]
22 Q. Please could you mark with an X the place where you were standing
23 when the corpses were being put onto the truck?
24 A. [Marks]
25 Q. Could you mark the place where the trucks were when the corpses
1 were being put there?
2 A. What number?
3 Q. Number 2.
4 A. [Marks]
5 Q. Thank you. Can you mark with the number 3 the place where
6 Dr. Boban and Mirko Djordjevic came immediately after this incident?
7 A. [Marks]
8 Q. Could you tell me whether they walked there or whether they had
9 some kind of a transportation vehicle?
10 A. They came by car, but -- but the car was way up here, the parking
11 lot here by the road.
12 Q. Can you mark that place where they had left their car?
13 A. Number 5, then?
14 Q. Let's just clarify one thing. Is this the place where they
15 parked when only the two of them came for the first time?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. All right. And the second time when they came, could you mark
18 with the number 6 the place where they parked their car?
19 A. Well, that I do not remember, where they parked the second time.
20 Q. Thank you. Were you with Mr. -- with Dr. Boban Vuksanovic when
21 he went to pick up the young men that he had brought to the shopping
22 centre to load the bodies?
23 A. No.
24 Q. How is it that you know what Dr. Boban said to the young men when
25 he asked them to come with him?
1 A. Well, I don't know. I didn't go with him. I was there all the
2 time by the kiosk.
3 Q. Well, you said that they didn't want to come with Dr. Boban.
4 That's why I'm asking you how you know that.
5 A. When they arrived on the spot and when they realised what was
6 going on, then they voiced their opposition.
7 Q. Thank you. You stated during your direct examination that when
8 all of this was happening on the 26th of March, that Jashar Berisha was
9 locked up at the police station. I would be interested in hearing when
10 and how you found that out.
11 A. Well, you know how it was. On that day Jashar was not working at
12 the gasoline station, and we, on orders from Commander Repanovic, went to
13 get him so that he would unlock the gasoline station so that we could get
14 some fuel for official purposes. However, when the shooting started up
15 there, Jashar Berisha was no longer at the gasoline station.
16 Q. Witness, please listen to me carefully. Listen to what it is
17 that I'm asking you. You gave me an answer that did not really relate to
18 my question. My question was how and when did you find out that
19 Jashar Berisha was locked up at the police station when all of this was
21 A. I found out when Todor Jovanovic drove from the direction of the
22 police station.
23 Q. So may I conclude that you are assuming that he had been brought
24 into custody at the police station when all of this was happening?
25 A. Yes.
1 Q. Are you sure that he was not at the police station when all of
2 this was happening?
3 A. I'm not sure, but I know that he came from the direction of the
5 Q. Thank you. Witness, my learned friend Mr. Stamp asked you today
6 about the on-site investigation that was carried out after this incident,
7 and I see that over here, although he suggested something to you, you
8 agreed to the date of the 27th of March, 1999. Are you sure of that
10 A. Well, I've said -- well, I mean, I've said a hundred times until
11 now, I do not remember the date exactly, but ...
12 Q. Thank you. Is it correct that you were securing the
13 investigation team from Prizren in the street of Miladin Popovic by -- on
14 the Rastane road where the OSCE house and Vesel Berisha's house, we know
15 that now, and then all the way to the carpentry store on Rastanski road?
16 A. Yes, that's right.
17 Q. Is it correct that during this on-site investigation you and the
18 investigation team were fired at?
19 A. Yes, that is correct.
20 Q. Thank you. Is it correct that there was a doctor with the
21 investigation team who examined the bodies that had been found?
22 A. I don't remember the doctor.
23 Q. It wasn't Dr. Boban, it was a doctor from the health centre. I
24 don't know his name. Was he with the investigation team maybe?
25 A. Oh, that was Slobodan Andrejevic.
1 Q. Thank you. Is it correct that you were providing security for
2 the investigation team at the Muslim cemetery as well, where at the
3 individual graves the bodies were buried, the bodies that had been found?
4 A. Yes, all the time while that was being done.
5 Q. Thank you.
6 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we now put on the screens,
7 if possible, D -- my colleague Marie O'Leary reminded me that I should
8 first tender this into evidence, and I would like to thank her for
9 reminding me.
10 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you. It will be received.
11 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.
12 JUDGE PARKER: First we'll receive the original.
13 THE REGISTRAR: The coloured photograph with document ID
14 D001-3215, Your Honours, will be D00013.
15 JUDGE PARKER: And then the marked copy.
16 THE REGISTRAR: That will be assigned D00014, Your Honours.
17 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.
18 Could we call up on the screens 001-3215.
19 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honour, we assigned D001-3215 with
20 Exhibit D00013.
21 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]
22 Q. Witness, on this photograph can you see the carpentry shop?
23 A. No, I can't see it.
24 Q. You can't see it here?
25 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we then please -- could I
1 then please have D13. Okay, let's not waste time. It is obvious that we
2 can't see the carpentry shop and the Muslim cemetery on those
3 photographs. Thank you.
4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] You can see the cemetery and the --
5 on the previous photograph, so I don't know what exactly you had in mind.
6 JUDGE PARKER: It may be Exhibit D10 or D9. Perhaps D9 would be
8 MR. DJURDJIC: Your Honours, I think 9 or 10.
9 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, it's a bit further up there,
10 in the direction of Rastane.
11 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have D8.
12 Q. Please don't make any markings, but could you please tell us, can
13 you see the carpentry shop and the Muslim cemetery here on this
15 A. You can see the Muslim cemetery and I can't really recall about
16 the carpentry shop. I know that there was a mechanic, some sort of a
17 garage, but I really can't remember.
18 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have this
19 photograph, without the markings made by the witness. I think that the
20 clear photograph was number 7.
21 MR. STAMP: I think ...
22 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]
23 MR. STAMP: I think -- I suspect that that might be in evidence
24 before, P269.
25 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.
1 Q. Now, this is an unmarked photograph. Could you please mark here,
2 you said that you recognised the place where the Muslim cemetery is.
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Could you please mark it, then.
5 A. What number?
6 Q. Well, number 1. We might use it as well.
7 A. [Marks]
8 Q. Now I would like to ask you, is the carpentry shop a bit further
9 down the Rastane road, so further down, or perhaps in front, and then you
10 can't orient yourself?
11 A. Well, I really cannot recall the carpentry shop.
12 Q. Thank you very much, Witness.
13 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Now I would like to tender this
14 into evidence.
15 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.
16 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I believe it's time
17 for our break now.
18 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you. We will resume at a quarter past 4.00.
19 --- Recess taken at 3.46 p.m.
20 --- On resuming at 4.18 p.m.
21 JUDGE PARKER: If the witness could be brought in. And while
22 that is happening, the court officer might give us the exhibit number of
23 that last marked exhibit, please.
24 THE REGISTRAR: Thank you, Your Honours. That will be D00015,
25 Your Honours.
1 JUDGE PARKER: Closed session.
2 [Closed session]
6 [Open session]
7 THE REGISTRAR: We're in open session, Your Honours.
8 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Djurdjic.
9 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.
10 Q. Witness, will you agree with me if I say that in 1998, in
11 Suva Reka, there were several terrorist attacks carried out in the town,
12 including the assassination attempt on Milan Nisavic who worked in the
13 Suva Reka branch office of the State Security Department. He was
14 seriously wounded. And a shop assistant working at the stall, he was an
15 ethnic Albanian, he was killed; is that correct?
16 MR. STAMP: Before we continue, that is a very compound question.
17 It's a question that involves so many composite parts that the answer
18 might be misleading. If the witness accepts that he's correct, it could
19 be misleading in respect of some components.
20 JUDGE PARKER: My note is the witness appears to have -- I agree
21 with you that it was a number of questions rolled into one. I assume
22 Mr. Djurdjic understood that there would be no dispute about that issue,
23 but do you want to break it up? If not, it will be a matter Mr. Stamp
24 would have to follow up. It might be better for you if you broke up the
25 question now and we were clear about what the witness thinks about each
1 part of it.
2 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. I
3 understand. I just wanted to make things go faster. I didn't want to
4 get a single answer to a compound question.
5 Q. So the first question is -- to cut the question into smaller
6 parts. If I say in 1998, in Suva Reka, in the town itself and in the
7 municipality, there were several terrorist attacks, would I be right?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Is it true that this is why you, as a reservist, was engaged to
10 work in the police station in Suva Reka?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Was that the reason why other police units from Serbia were
13 dispatched to Kosovo and Metohija?
14 A. Yes, that's correct.
15 Q. Is it true that this is why PJP units were also dispatched there,
16 including the Cegar unit, as you call it?
17 A. Yes, that's correct. That's how it was.
18 Q. Is it correct that Milorad Nisavic, an employee of the
19 State Security Department, the Prizren section, the Suva Reka branch
20 office, an assassination attempt was carried out in the -- in downtown
21 Suva Reka, he was seriously injured and an ethnic Albanian who worked
22 there at the stall was killed?
23 A. Yes, that's correct.
24 Q. Am I right when I say that from the summer of 1998 until the
25 13th of June, 1999, the security situation was so complex and difficult
1 that moving around the town of Suva Reka was very risky because of KLA
2 attacks and sniper attacks, and that only those who really had urgent
3 business were moving around?
4 A. Yes, that's correct.
5 Q. Is it correct that the police station was fired on on several
6 occasions? By that I mean the OUP in Suva Reka.
7 A. Yes, there were such occasions.
8 Q. Is it true that you had to secure the Suva Reka OUP 24 hours a
9 day and that there had to be a watch post on the church spire if an
10 attack occurred on the Suva Reka OUP?
11 A. Yes, that's correct.
12 Q. Is it correct that in 1998, until the beginning of the NATO
13 aggression, the KLA abducted Albanians loyal to the Republic of Serbia
14 several occasions and abducted persons of other ethnic -- from other
15 ethnic communities, that they stopped vehicles, mistreated the
16 passengers, blocked traffic on main roads, such as the Pristina-Prizren,
17 Pristina-Pec, and Pristina-Djakovica-Prizren roads?
18 A. Yes, that is entirely true.
19 Q. Was it extremely dangerous to move around the municipality of
20 Suva Reka, in particular towards the villages of Budakovo, Belince,
21 Rastane, Dzinovce and other villages?
22 A. Well, it wasn't safe.
23 Q. Was this the reason why the police used armoured vehicles when
24 patrolling, I mean heavy armoured vehicles?
25 A. Yes, they did use them.
1 Q. Would you agree with me that the police check-points on the roads
2 existed in order to prevent the movement of terrorists, the smuggling of
3 weapons, and to ensure that the traffic could move on smoothly along
4 those roads?
5 A. Yes, precisely. This was the only way to prevent all of those
6 things, the murders and all the other things that were going on.
7 Q. Thank you. Would you agree with me that the treatment of all
8 persons at police check-points, regardless of their ethnic background,
9 was the same, that all persons were treated in the same way?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Thank you.
12 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have on our
13 screens Exhibit 00003. That's Exhibit D3, without the zeros. I think it
14 was admitted on Friday. It should be a map, a map of Kosovo and
16 While we're waiting for the map, we can deal with the textual
17 part. Could we please zoom in to have a better view of the map? Well,
18 we can see the roadmap of Kosovo and Metohija. We can see that roads are
19 marked in red. These are the main roads in Kosovo and Metohija.
20 Q. Now, Witness, my colleague Mr. Stamp asked you on Friday and you
21 said that from Prizren to Suva Reka it's about 20 kilometres.
22 A. Eighteen to 20 kilometres.
23 Q. Now, from Suva Reka to Pristina, would you agree with me that
24 it's about 60 kilometres?
25 A. Fifty-seven.
1 Q. Thank you. Would you be so kind as to mark the road from
2 Suva Reka to Pristina, through Dulje, of course.
3 A. [Marks]
4 Q. Thank you. Would you agree with me that in the summer of 1998
5 the traffic through Dulje was cut off and that you couldn't take this
6 road to get to Pristina?
7 A. Yes, precisely.
8 Q. Would you agree with me that when this road was cut off, that
9 from Suva Reka you had to go south towards Prizren and then through
10 Sredacka Zupa to Strpce, and then there's a junction with the
11 Skopje-Pristina road near Nerodimlje and then you pass by Urosevac and go
12 to Pristina.
13 A. Yes, that's how it was.
14 Q. Now I would like you to mark Suva Reka and Pristina with two Xs.
15 A. [Marks]
16 Q. And now I would like you to mark with a dotted line the
17 alternative road to Pristina, the one -- the round-about road that was
18 used when the other road was cut off.
19 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's note: We cannot hear the witness
20 when he is not speaking into the microphone.
21 JUDGE PARKER: I think he's talking to himself as he tries to
22 find the roadway.
23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, it's not very visible here.
24 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]
25 Q. Witness, could you now just continue on towards Pristina from
1 that point that you reached here.
2 A. I think that's it.
3 Q. Could you please go all the way up to Pristina, to this X that
4 you marked here.
5 A. [Marks]
6 Q. Thank you.
7 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Now I would like to tender this
8 into evidence, and could we please get an exhibit number.
9 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.
10 THE REGISTRAR: That will be D00016, Your Honours.
11 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]
12 Q. Witness, sir, do you know that on the 17th or the 18th of July,
13 1998, the KLA occupied Orahovac and that in the course of the pull-out,
14 60 Serbs were taken away and none returned.
15 A. I heard about it but I was not there in Orahovac.
16 Q. Thank you. And do you recall that the KLA, on the eve of the
17 NATO aggression, actually killed somebody in Suva Reka and that in that
18 terrorist attack Bogdan Lazic was killed in a shop where you worked?
19 A. Yes, that is true.
20 Q. Do you recall that this was on the 22nd of March, 1999?
21 A. I don't recall the date, but I remember the day when it happened.
22 Q. Thank you.
23 MR. DJORDJEVIC: [Interpretation] Could we please look at
24 D001-0685, that's the B/C/S version; and D001-0706, that's the English
25 version. Could we please look at page 1 of this document.
1 Q. Witness, could you please tell us what's written in the black
2 letters right in the middle?
3 A. "Criminal Report."
4 Q. Thank you. Can you see it well?
5 A. Well, not really from close up.
6 Q. Perhaps you could read the first and the second paragraphs in the
7 criminal report here.
8 A. Well, it's really faint. I can't really see it. Half of the
9 letters are missing and I really don't know.
10 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I'm short-sighted.
11 Could I perhaps read this out and then ask the witness if that is
12 correct, because apparently the witness will not be able to read this
14 JUDGE PARKER: It is now being shown more clearly. I don't know
15 whether the witness is able to follow this. It doesn't look encouraging.
16 Please read, Mr. Djurdjic.
17 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]
18 Q. Witness, I will try and read it.
19 "On the 20th of March, 1999, at around 1430 hours in Suva Reka,
20 in the Cara Dusana Street, number 46," to be more specific in the shop
21 whose name I will not read out, you have it in the translation, "1, the
22 Siptar terrorist carried out a terrorist act, a criminal offence from the
23 Article 125 of the Penal Code of the FRY. The crime was committed in the
24 following manner: The Siptar terrorist entered the shop and at close
25 range they fired a pistol, make unknown, firing several rounds at the
1 owner of the shop, Mate Lazic."
2 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's note: Could the counsel please
3 slow down when reading because the interpreters do not -- cannot read the
4 text either.
5 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] -- which is the place of his
6 permanent residence, "literate, married, father of two, salesperson by
7 occupation, of Serbian ethnic background, citizen of the FRY, was in
8 possession of the ID card number 77018, personal ID number
9 0101-963-954-945, issued by the Suva Reka OUP. He was alone in the shop.
10 He was seated at his desk in the office."
11 Q. The witness could now tell us if I read this correctly. I read
12 the first and the second paragraphs.
13 A. Yes. Yes, that's correct.
14 Q. Is what I read correct?
15 A. Yes.
16 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please tender this
17 document into evidence and get an exhibit number?
18 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.
19 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]
20 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received under seal.
21 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please.
22 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I apologise. Could we please have
23 also the translation into English admitted into evidence? I apologise, I
24 just wanted to look at page -- at pages 5, 6, and 7 of this document. My
25 apologies. It is due to my inexperience. Could we please first look at
1 page 5. No, no. That is the statement. We need the on-site
2 investigation record, that's pages 5, 6, and 7. And I don't know ...
3 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's note: The counsel is kindly
4 asked not to knock the microphone on the lectern.
5 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you. No, it's not necessary
6 to go on. We have the confirmation from the witness.
7 THE REGISTRAR: That will be assigned D00017, under seal,
8 Your Honours.
9 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you. And that will be both the English and
10 the B/C/S version.
11 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I apologise to the court officers.
12 It was my mistake. I got confused and I mixed up some of my documents in
13 my notes. I do apologise.
14 Could we please have Defence Exhibit D0001-0785.
15 Q. While we're waiting for the document to come up, let me ask you
16 this: Do you remember and is it correct that at Dulje, on the
17 8th of January, 1999, there was an attack on the patrol from -- of the
19 were killed, including Milos Stevanovic, a colleague of yours from
20 Suva Reka, and four police officers were seriously wounded, including one
21 of your colleagues from Suva Reka, Nebojsa Andrejevic?
22 A. Yes, I remember.
23 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we now look at the exhibit.
24 Now could we look at the next document, 785.
25 Q. Witness, will you agree with me that in the middle of this
1 document it says "Criminal Report"?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Will you agree with me that it was drafted on the 11th --
4 MR. STAMP: Before we proceed ...
5 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Stamp?
6 MR. STAMP: Could I ask if there is a translation for this into
7 one of the languages of the Tribunal; and if there is not, I would object
8 to its use at this stage.
9 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] My learned colleague, this
10 document has not been translated yet. It was submitted for translation
11 but it has yet to be translated because of the heavy workload. I would
12 like it to be used here, to be marked here, and once it is translated
13 then I will use it as an exhibit, if the Trial Chamber agrees.
14 JUDGE PARKER: It can be marked for identification, Mr. Djurdjic,
15 but it will be a question whether it is possible for Mr. Stamp to
16 re-examine at this stage if he has no translation. Having identified
17 that potential problem, we will mark this document, and if Mr. Stamp has
18 difficulty when it comes to re-examination, he can mention that.
19 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, to make things
20 simpler, what I said and what the witness confirmed should be in
21 paragraphs 1 and 2 of the criminal report, and I merely wanted to show
22 him the on-site investigation record and perhaps one more page. But if
23 you think that this will make it more complicated for my friend Mr. Stamp
24 to conduct his redirect, I don't have to even have this document marked
25 for identification, if Mr. Stamp believes that it will make his redirect
1 more difficult.
2 MR. STAMP: The problem really is that before we even reach the
3 redirect stage, it's impossible to follow what he's doing, if he selects
4 two paragraphs and reads it or has the witness read it, because I want to
5 see the document in context. And I think that is, to some degree --
6 well, I wouldn't say "flouting," but the order was that we should be
7 provided the documents 48 hours before, and I think that means that we
8 should be provided the documents in a language of the Tribunal. So
9 efforts have to be made by counsel to have documents which they propose
10 to use in cross-examination translated before the cross-examination. And
11 if they are long documents, then the relevant parts could be translated
12 and I'm prepared to discuss with counsel some agreement in respect to
13 long documents. I don't expect that they will be translated. But
14 generally speaking, we can't follow properly the examination of the
15 witness without having translations.
16 JUDGE PARKER: This, gentlemen, is one of the little problems
17 that arise as we're getting used to the procedure to be followed in the
19 As I see it, Mr. Djurdjic, the witness has agreed that he knows
20 of this event and of the death and the wounding of a number of police
21 officers, as you have indicated. If that matter is not being challenged
22 by Mr. Stamp, you really don't need this written criminal report to
23 confirm that. It's accepted. If Mr. Stamp, when he comes to re-examine,
24 is going to challenge what you've put to the witness, well, then, it may
25 be necessary to adjourn this question until the document can be
1 translated, if the document is going to help us resolve it. But I
2 suspect at the moment that if you don't go further with this document,
3 you have the witness's acceptance that this event occurred and we may not
4 hear anything more about it.
5 For the future, as you will appreciate, and it's clear that you
6 do, the need for a translation in a language that can be followed both by
7 the Chamber and by Mr. Stamp, or whoever is dealing with the matter for
8 the Prosecution, is important, just as it will be important that there
9 always be a B/C/S document, a copy of any English-language document which
10 Mr. Stamp wishes to tender, so that you can follow it and you can decide
11 whether the matter needs to be pursued.
12 Can I take it, then, Mr. Djurdjic, that you do not press the
13 tender of this document at this stage?
14 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I withdraw my request to mark this
15 document for identification. Thank you. But I do have this big problem.
16 The documents are long, and to submit them to the translation service, I
17 think it would take a long time for them to be translated and it would
18 all be in vain. That is why I wanted to get the gist of the document and
19 then the service would be able to translate the rest in due time.
20 This document contains 40 pages, plus the photographs, and I
21 think that there's no court in the world that would be able to have such
22 huge documents translated on time. I will strive to use only documents
23 that have already been translated into all the relevant languages.
24 Q. Now, sir --
25 JUDGE PARKER: If it accords with the witness's recollection of
1 the event, as you've heard from this witness about this event. If you
2 can reach the happy stage where you have a translated document, you, of
3 course, may use it. Thank you.
4 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you. I have learned
5 something now. When the witness confirms something, then we don't need
6 to resort to a document.
7 Q. Witness, we mentioned Dr. Boban Vuksanovic here and
8 Mirko Djordjevic. Do you remember that the two of them lost their lives
9 in a terrorist attack on the 17th of April, 1999, by the village of
10 Sopina, on a road there? They were killed by the KLA.
11 A. Yes, I remember that.
12 Q. Witness, sir, your superiors at the OUP, in the police station,
13 did they take the measures prescribed by law against the policemen who
14 committed crimes? And are you aware of that?
15 A. Yes, I am aware of that.
16 Q. Now I'm going to try to jog your memory. Do you know that
17 against one of your colleagues, Andjelko Popovic, a policeman from the
18 OUP of Suva Reka, a criminal report was filed due to aggravated theft
19 against an Albanian person, and that was in March 1999?
20 A. Yes, I remember that.
21 Q. Do you remember that your colleague was detained because of this
22 suspicion that he had committed a criminal offence?
23 A. Yes, I remember that.
24 Q. Thank you. Do you remember that as for the policeman
25 Ivica Novkovic from your OUP, Suva Reka, a criminal report was filed
1 against him, again for aggravated theft, and the victim was again a
2 member of the Albanian ethnic group, also in March 1999?
3 A. Yes, that's correct.
4 Q. Do you know that he was also detained because of this suspicion
5 that he had committed a criminal offence?
6 A. Yes, that's right.
7 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we now call up Exhibit
8 D001-0677, that's the B/C/S version; and D001-0697, that's the English
10 Q. Witness, sir, can you confirm that this is a criminal report
11 against Andjelko Popovic?
12 A. Andjelko Popovic, yes.
13 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we see page 7 of this
15 Q. Is this a report on the detention of Andjelko Popovic?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Thank you.
18 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could this exhibit be admitted
19 into evidence, please.
20 JUDGE PARKER: We're waiting for the English translation. Is
21 there one, Mr. Djurdjic? Oh, it has now come up.
22 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] On the left-hand side it seems to
23 me that we do see the translation, and in Serbian I'm reading what it is.
24 It is the "Report on the Detention of ..." et cetera.
25 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you. It has now come up. The document will
1 be received.
2 THE REGISTRAR: That will be D00018, Your Honours.
3 JUDGE PARKER: The two documents, as I look at it, do not appear
4 to be the same.
5 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, one document
6 pertains to the suspect Andjelko Popovic, and this other document that
7 I'm going to refer to now has to do with Ivica Novkovic. This is
8 Andjelko Popovic, you can see it here on the left-hand side, "Andjelko
9 Popovic," and on the right, "Andjelko Popovic," except that one is
10 Cyrillic and the other is the Latin script. And these are the two
11 different scripts that exist in the Serbian language, but it's one and
12 the same person.
13 JUDGE PARKER: The document that has now come onto the screen
14 does appear to be the English translation of the B/C/S document. Is that
16 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I think so, yes.
17 JUDGE PARKER: These --
18 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] "Report on Arrest and Taking into
19 Custody ..."
20 JUDGE PARKER: These, then, are the two documents that will be
21 received as the exhibit. That's Exhibit D18. Thank you.
22 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Now I would like to ask for
23 document D001-0670, B/C/S, that's the B/C/S version; and D001-0929,
24 that's the English version.
25 Q. This is the first page of a criminal report. Am I right, sir?
1 A. Ivica Novkovic, yes.
2 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we have a look at page 2 now,
4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.
5 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] It hasn't been translated. Let's
6 look at page 6 now of this document.
7 JUDGE PARKER: Is page 6 a page that has been translated? Yes,
8 thank you.
9 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] It seems that they found the
10 translation of the second page as well. That's the way it seems. Of the
11 criminal report, that is. Can we have a look at page 6 now? That should
12 also be an order -- an arrest warrant and a warrant to have a person
13 taken into custody.
14 [In English] Yes. Okay. This is the translation.
15 Q. [Interpretation] Witness, is this a report on the arrest and
16 taking into custody of Ivica Novkovic?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Thank you.
19 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could this document please be
20 admitted into evidence and be assigned a number.
21 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.
22 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]
23 JUDGE PARKER: I am told, Mr. Djurdjic, that this is in fact an
24 extremely large document. We have seen pages 1, 2, and 6. Are you
25 suggesting that the whole document be received?
1 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I thought that it was
2 sufficient -- or, rather, that the essence of this document was that it's
3 a criminal report and that he was arrested and detained. There are also
4 certificates there on the taking away of items from him, but I think that
5 for the purpose of these proceedings it is relevant that he was arrested
6 and that proceedings were instituted against him. Of course, I don't
7 mind having all parts of the document admitted into evidence, especially
8 if it's all been translated. So if it's all been translated, I do tender
9 the entire document, yes.
10 JUDGE PARKER: Pages 1, 2, and 6 will be received as Exhibit D19,
11 Mr. Djurdjic.
12 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.
13 Q. Witness, now I'd like to put a few questions to you in relation
14 to what you said today when you were answering the questions put to you
15 by Mr. Stamp during the direct examination.
16 You said that several times you saw Cegar 1 before the
17 26th of March, in Suva
18 saw him in Suva Reka before the 26th of March?
19 A. Well, perhaps three days before that.
20 Q. And before those three days before that?
21 A. Well, he came, say, every other day, every other day or every
22 third day.
23 Q. Will you agree with me that Cegar 1 was stationed in Prizren
24 until the 24th of March, in the evening?
25 A. I don't know exactly where it was that he was stationed, but I
1 know that from time to time he came to the police station in Suva Reka.
2 Q. Thank you. Can you tell me whether you were present when he
3 spoke to someone at the OUP of Suva Reka?
4 A. No.
5 Q. You just saw him enter the station and go somewhere upstairs;
7 A. Exactly.
8 Q. You didn't know whether he went to the commander of the station
9 or whether he went to the chief of the OUP or a third person.
10 A. Yes, that's right.
11 Q. You don't know what they discussed; is that right?
12 A. That's right.
13 Q. Thank you. I would now be interested in the following: You
14 stated that you knew that Cegar 1 remained at the helm of this unit that
15 he led up until the end of the war. How come you know that?
16 A. Well, I remember when we were withdrawing from Kosovo, he was
17 with his unit at the head of the column.
18 Q. Yes, but you don't know what position he held then.
19 A. I don't know.
20 Q. Thank you. You also stated in response to the Prosecutor's
21 question that Tanovic also remained at the OUP of Suva Reka until the end
22 of the war.
23 A. Tanovic got killed before the war ended.
24 Q. Thank you. You said that Cukaric remained in the OUP of
25 Suva Reka until the end of the war.
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Do you remember that Cukaric was returned from the OUP of
3 Suva Reka a month after this incident?
4 A. I don't know. I really don't remember.
5 Q. Will you agree with me that in the log-book of the police duty
6 service and the police station of Suva Reka, this incident of the
7 26th of March, 1999, was not recorded?
8 A. Possibly. I really don't know.
9 Q. Will you agree with me that the SUP of Prizren, on the
10 30th of March, 1999, was informed and that they sent an investigation
11 team to the street of Miladin Popovic in Suva Reka to investigate the
12 scene where you were providing security on that occasion?
13 A. Yes, I remember when the on-site investigation team arrived.
14 Q. Thank you, Witness.
15 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I have no further questions,
16 Your Honour.
17 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you very much, Mr. Djurdjic.
18 Mr. Stamp, is there re-examination?
19 MR. STAMP: Yes, Your Honour, a couple of questions.
20 Re-examination by Mr. Stamp:
21 Q. Where is Miladin Popovic Street in Suva Reka? In relation -- in
22 relation to the pizzeria, where is Miladin Popovic Street in Suva Reka?
23 A. I really don't remember that street, and I've forgotten quite a
24 few things, not only the street.
25 Q. Well, you said that there was an investigation team that, on the
1 30th of March -- or I shouldn't say "you said." You accepted something
2 that was put to you by counsel, that on the 30th of March, the SUP of
3 Prizren was informed about the events of the 26th and they sent an
4 investigation team to Miladin Popovic in Suva Reka. What do you mean
5 when you say that?
6 A. Well, what I meant was -- well, the team that came for this
7 on-site investigation, they came to this cemetery where these corpses
8 were buried, I mean -- well, that was my understanding.
9 Q. This team that did the investigation, did they interview you and
10 take a statement from you?
11 A. No, they didn't take any statement from me. There was no need
12 for that.
13 Q. Well, whether there was a need for that is something we'll have
14 to assess ourselves. Do you know if they interviewed Djordjevic or --
16 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Djurdjic.
17 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, the last question,
18 when I mentioned this street that Mr. Stamp is dealing with now, I said
19 that he provided security there for the on-site investigation team of
20 Prizren, so he was on the security detail. We discussed that earlier on
21 during the cross-examination. I discussed it with him. So I think that
22 this kind of question put by Mr. Stamp is not right because he claims
23 that the witness, who was providing security for the team, that he was
24 supposed to talk to them rather than just provide security.
25 MR. STAMP: I made no such claims.
1 JUDGE PARKER: The only question that I see that's on this point
2 was simply, "Did they," being the investigation team, "interview you and
3 take a statement from you?" That says nothing about whether they should
4 have or not, and this witness said, "No, they didn't take a statement
5 from me." I don't see anything harmful in that.
6 Carry on, please, Mr. Stamp.
7 MR. STAMP: Thank you.
8 Q. Do you know if they interviewed Tanovic or Cukaric or Mitrovic,
9 that is, Cegar 1, and take statements from them?
10 A. I don't know. I don't know whether they took statements from
11 them. I really don't remember. Cegar 1 was not there on that day, and
12 Petkovic and Cukaric, they were there, but I don't know whether
13 statements were taken from them.
14 Q. The people who were buried at the Muslim cemetery, if you could
15 turn your mind to those, could you tell me how many persons were buried
16 there, or approximately how many?
17 A. Well, I could not give you the exact number, but say 15.
18 Around 15, around 20. I'm not sure.
19 Q. And who are these people? Where did these corpses come from?
20 A. Well, these people -- well, the street, I mean these houses that
21 were on the road leading to Rastane, I mean they were from those houses.
22 Q. Were these the civilian Albanians that you spoke about earlier
24 A. Yes, yes, civilians.
25 JUDGE PARKER: I find that a very confusing question because so
1 much was spoken about earlier today over two days of activity. I think
2 you might need to be more specific, Mr. Stamp.
3 MR. STAMP: Yes.
4 Q. Earlier I had asked you about persons who were killed by the
5 police, and you -- and I -- and these persons were killed on the -- let
6 me withdraw that. Let me get right to the point.
7 You had told me earlier that there were some investigations and
8 photographs were taken of persons who were killed on the road to Rastane,
9 or Rastane, the day after the pizzeria incident, and I asked you what
10 killed these persons and you said "Police." And I asked also if they
11 were civilian Kosovo Albanians. Do you remember that?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Now, what I want to ask you on that score finally: Was anybody
14 from the pizzeria, as far as you know, buried at the Muslim cemetery?
15 A. As far as I can remember, no one.
16 Q. Do you know what became of those corpses from the pizzeria after
17 they were taken away in the two trucks heading toward Prizren?
18 A. I just know that they went, well, to Prizren. I don't know
19 where -- where they were taken exactly.
20 Q. Thank you. You said that Todorovic -- sorry, Jovanovic,
21 Todor Jovanovic drove up with Jashar Berisha and they came from the
22 direction of the police station. What type of car did they drive up in?
23 Was it an official car or a private car?
24 A. Official police vehicle.
25 Q. Todor Jovanovic was supposed to have been involved in conducting
1 these investigations. Did he take these photographs at the pizzeria
2 before or after he brought Jashar Berisha there?
3 JUDGE PARKER: Yes, Mr. Djurdjic.
4 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I do apologise, Your Honours, but
5 I think that the witness did not say that on the 26th of March,
6 Todor Jovanovic photographed anything. I think that what he said was
7 that subsequently at that on-site investigation that we discussed, he was
8 there then with the on-site investigation team. I may be wrong, but I
9 don't think I am.
10 JUDGE PARKER: I have a different recollection from you,
11 Mr. Djurdjic, but I think the matter should be explored more by Mr. Stamp
12 to clarify it.
13 MR. STAMP: All right.
14 Q. When was the first time you saw Todor Jovanovic taking
15 photographs in respect to the incidents you've described in your
16 testimony, the 26th or the next day?
17 A. Well, it was on that day when it ended and the following day, on
18 the road to Rastane.
19 Q. And when you say "on that day when it ended," you mean this was
20 at the pizzeria?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Now, he brought Jashar there, Jashar Berisha on to Korisa, and he
23 was present there when Cukaric shot Jashar in his back. Now, all I want
24 to know is did he take these photographs as part of this supposed
25 investigation before or after Jashar was shot?
1 A. I cannot remember now exactly.
2 Q. Very well. You said at some point the leaders of the PJP were
3 completely separate from the leaders of the Suva Reka OUP. What do you
4 mean when you say that or you said that?
5 A. Well, they were outside the town of Suva Reka, for the most part.
6 They were in the surrounding villages. They were not in Suva Reka very
7 much. They were in the surrounding villages more than they were in the
8 town of Suva
9 Q. That's the PJPs?
10 A. Yes. Yes, that's what I meant, the PJP.
11 Q. Was the Cegar unit a PJP unit?
12 A. Yes, yes.
13 MR. STAMP: Thank you very much, Your Honours. I have nothing
14 further in re-examination.
15 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you, Mr. Stamp.
16 [Trial Chamber confers]
17 JUDGE PARKER: You'll be pleased to know that that concludes the
18 questions for you. The Chamber would thank you for your attendance here
19 and the assistance you've been able to give, and you will now be able to
20 leave and go back to your ordinary affairs. So thank you very much.
21 Now, before you leave that seat, we will make the usual arrangements for
22 you to do so.
23 Is the next witness one that is subject to protections or not?
24 MR. STAMP: No, Your Honour.
25 JUDGE PARKER: In that case, what the Chamber will do is to rise
1 now, leaving the court in closed session so that the witness can leave.
2 We will resume at five minutes to 6.00 and commence hearing the next
4 --- Recess taken at 5.24 p.m.
5 --- On resuming at 5.58 p.m.
6 MR. STAMP: If it please Your Honours.
7 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Stamp.
8 MR. STAMP: Thank you very much, Your Honour. The next witness
9 is Shyhrete Berisha, and Ms. Gopalan will lead her evidence in chief on
10 behalf of the Prosecution.
11 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you very much.
12 MS. GOPALAN: Your Honours, before the witness enters the
13 courtroom, I would like to address Your Honours in private session.
14 JUDGE PARKER: Private.
15 MS. GOPALAN: Your Honours, Madam ...
16 [Private session]
3 [Open session]
4 THE REGISTRAR: We're in public session, Your Honours
5 [The witness entered court]
6 JUDGE PARKER: Good evening. Would you please read aloud the
7 affirmation which is on the card now placed in front of you.
8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will
9 speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
10 WITNESS: SHYHRETE BERISHA
11 [Witness answered through interpreter]
12 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you very much. Please sit down.
13 We understand that Ms. Gopalan has some questions for you and we
14 would ask her to continue now.
15 Examination by Ms. Gopalan:
16 Q. Madam Berisha, just to let you know that if you need to stop at
17 any time during your testimony, Your Honours have kindly provided leave
18 for you to do so. With that, let me begin with my questions.
19 MS. GOPALAN: For the Court's attention, this witness's testimony
20 is relevant to paragraphs 72(D), 75(D), 77(A) and (B) and schedule D of
21 the indictment.
22 Q. Madam Berisha, before we begin may I request you to put away the
23 statement that you have before you. Thank you very much. Please could
24 you state your full name for the Court.
25 A. My name is Shyhrete Berisha.
1 Q. How old are you, Madam Berisha?
2 A. I am 47 years old.
3 Q. Where were you born?
4 A. I was born in Mushtisht village, Suhareke municipality.
5 Q. Madam Berisha, what languages do you speak?
6 A. I speak my mother tongue, Albanian, and Serbian.
7 Q. Madam Berisha, what is your ethnicity?
8 A. Albanian.
9 MS. GOPALAN: I'd like to call up 65 ter number 0117, please, and
10 if we could scroll to page 8. I see that the exhibit is up on e-court.
11 If we could focus on the top half of the page.
12 Q. Madam Berisha, do you recognise the house on your screen?
13 A. Yes, I do. This is the house I lived in together with my husband
14 and my four children, on the left-hand side, whereas on the right-hand
15 side my husband's nephew, Faton, lived with his mother, his sister, his
16 wife and his two children, small children.
17 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Djurdjic.
18 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. I would
19 kindly ask the Prosecutor to let us know when this photograph was taken,
20 what time it reflects, whether she knows it at all.
21 JUDGE PARKER: Can you assist us there, Ms. Gopalan?
22 MS. GOPALAN: I don't have the information at hand, Your Honours,
23 but I can obtain it in due course. But the purpose for which this
24 photograph is shown is simply for the witness to identify it, and if
25 required, I could ask the witness questions that may enlighten us as to
1 when the photograph was taken.
2 JUDGE PARKER: I think it is enough if you can --
3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I don't know when the photo was
4 taken, but it is a fact that the house is burned. You can see it very
5 clearly. It was burned by the Serbs. And the house was built after the
7 MS. GOPALAN: As it happened --
8 THE INTERPRETER: Sorry, burned after the war, correction.
9 MS. GOPALAN: As it happens I do have the information at hand, if
10 it pleases Your Honours.
11 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you. If you could let the Chamber and
12 Mr. Djurdjic know that now.
13 MS. GOPALAN: This is a document dated 4th of July, 1999, and it
14 is a photograph that was provided by the Dutch police.
15 Q. If I could move on now, Madam Berisha. You mentioned that you
16 lived with your family on the left-hand side of the house. Could you
17 tell us a little bit more about your family members.
18 A. I lived with my husband, Nexhat Berisha, who at the time was
19 43 years old. My two daughters was Majlinda, 16 years old; Herolinda was
20 our second daughter, 13 years old. Our son, our first son was Altin, ten
21 years old. And our youngest son was not yet two years old.
22 On the left-hand side the house has two entrances. On the
23 left-hand side lived my husband's nephew, Faton. He was 27 years old, I
24 think, approximately. His mother was 48 years old, Fatime. Faton's
25 sister was 17 years old, her name was Sherine. And Faton's wife was
1 Sebahate, 25 years old, and their two sons, Ismet, three years old, and
2 Eron, 10 months old.
3 Q. Thank you very much, Madam Berisha.
4 MS. GOPALAN: Before we move on, I would like to tender the
5 exhibit 0117 into evidence, Your Honour.
6 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.
7 THE REGISTRAR: That will be P00271, Your Honours.
8 MS. GOPALAN: As the witness has mentioned a number of names, I
9 would like to call up the Berisha family tree, which is 65 ter
10 number 2346, to assist us with the various individuals that she has
11 recently referred to.
12 Your Honours, as this is a rather dense document, I have prepared
13 some hard copies to be circulated to the Court in order to ease the
14 reference. With the usher's assistance, I would like this document to be
15 circulated, with Your Honours' leave.
16 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.
17 MS. GOPALAN:
18 Q. Madam Berisha, I've just circulated through the courtroom a copy
19 of the Berisha family tree. Do you recall that you prepared this
20 document on the date --
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. -- stated at the bottom of the page? And is that your signature
23 on the bottom?
24 A. Yes, yes.
25 Q. Madam Berisha, during your last -- to the best of your knowledge,
1 is the information contained in this document still correct?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. You referred to a number of individuals, your family members who
4 lived with you in your home. Am I correct that those individuals
5 referred to are those on the top left-hand corner of the family tree, at
6 the top of the page? So your husband is Nexhat?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And your four daughters, Majlinda, Herolinda, et cetera?
9 A. My two daughters and my two sons.
10 Q. Yes. And the family that lived on the right, that is, Faton's
11 family, and their names are set out on the column just beside; is that
13 A. Yes, that's correct.
14 Q. Madam Berisha, there are a number of names in this document.
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Is it correct that the names in red, Nexhat, Fatime, Faton,
17 Sedat, Bujar, and Nexhmedin, are the persons who were known to you as
18 having been killed during the incidents that you're going to talk about?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Killed in Suva
21 individuals that you saw in the coffee shop, testimony of which we are
22 shortly going to come to.
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Madam Berisha, I'd like to move on now to the arrival of the OSCE
25 in Suva
1 MS. GOPALAN: But before I do that, I would like to tender this
2 exhibit into evidence, Your Honours.
3 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.
4 THE REGISTRAR: That will be P00272, Your Honours.
5 MS. GOPALAN:
6 Q. When did the OSCE arrive in Suva Reka, if you remember?
7 A. In 1998 the OSCE came for the first time to Suhareke.
8 Q. And when they first arrived, where did they live and work?
9 A. For the first time in Suhareke they worked at Boss Hotel in
10 Shiroko, which is the first village from Suhareke.
11 Q. And do you know who owned the Boss Hotel?
12 A. The owner of the Boss Hotel was Miskovic.
13 Q. Did the OSCE later move into your home, Madam Berisha?
14 A. Yes, they did. Later they came and met my husband Nexhat and
15 Faton and asked them whether they were willing for the OSCE to take -- to
16 rent our houses and they agreed. So the OSCE rented our houses and
17 settled there.
18 Q. And when the OSCE rented your houses and settled there, did you
19 ever go to your house?
20 A. After the OSCE settled in our house, I and my family, that is, my
21 husband and my children, went to my parents in Mushtisht village to live.
22 Q. And how about Faton's family?
23 A. Faton's family, too, Faton with his wife and mother and children,
24 they went to his grandfather's in another town.
25 Q. Did you know anyone who worked at the OSCE?
1 A. Yes. The head of the OSCE was an American by the name Rufus.
2 Q. And did you know any local staff who worked at the OSCE?
3 A. Yes. There were many others, locals, who worked for the OSCE,
4 like guards. They were Albanians, Serbs, Roma. One of them was
5 Miskovic's brother. He worked as a guard for the OSCE.
6 Q. Madam Berisha, you mentioned earlier that your home was divided
7 into two portions or the house that you lived in was divided into two
8 portions, the left and the right. Do you recall how the OSCE used the
9 left and the right sides of your house?
10 A. Yes. The OSCE used the left-hand side, that is, my house where I
11 lived with my husband and my four children, as their headquarters, as
12 offices, whereas Faton's house they used for sleeping there. Three
13 people lived there, Rufus and two others, whose names I can't remember.
14 Q. Did the OSCE use any other houses in Suva Reka, apart from yours
15 and Faton's?
16 A. The other houses were used only to sleep in, whereas ours was one
17 of the houses used as offices.
18 Q. When did the OSCE move out of your house, Madam Berisha?
19 A. The OSCE left our house on the 20th of March.
20 Q. And did you then move back to your house?
21 A. Yes. After the OSCE left the house, on the next day, as far as I
22 recall, we came back. My husband called me on the phone and my father
23 took me and my kids to Suhareke. But we went to Faton's part of the
24 house, not to ours, because Faton's house had -- the OSCE people had
25 freed Faton's part of the house earlier; therefore, he was there before
1 us. That is why we went to stay with him.
2 Q. When you returned to your house, were there any security people
3 present there?
4 A. Yes, yes. After we stayed awhile, I and my daughters wanted to
5 clean up the house and to enter it. There was a Roma man who used to
6 work as a guard, security guard, there.
7 Q. And did he say anything to you when you went to your house?
8 A. He was a Roma man called Zeqa. He said to me, "Don't be afraid.
9 I don't think that the Serb police will come again, because they already
10 were here two times." And he alleged that the Serb police had asked him
11 whether the KLA were pestering them.
12 Q. And what did you think of the reason he gave you of the police
13 having gone to the house?
14 A. I thought that the police were there only to find out whether we
15 had come back or not. This is what I think, or thought.
16 Q. Do you know if the police had been to other houses in Suva Reka?
17 A. Afterwards I heard that the police had been also at Murat Suka's
18 house, which was used by the OSCE people to sleep in, and they had looted
19 things there, computers and other appliances. They had stolen them,
20 looted them.
21 Q. Thank you. I would like to move on to the day of the NATO
22 bombing itself. I believe this was Wednesday, the 24th of March.
23 Madam Berisha, did you notice any particular troop movement on
24 that day?
25 A. Yes, I did, movements of police and army forces, uninterrupted
2 Q. Could you describe to us what the men who you describe as
3 policemen were wearing.
4 A. Yes. They were wearing uniforms.
5 Q. Do you recall what colour these uniforms were?
6 A. They were green, dark green uniforms, dark green camouflage
7 uniforms, and blue camouflage. To tell you the truth, I don't recall
8 very clearly because ten years have passed since that time.
9 Q. Thank you. We understand that. Do you recall if they were
10 travelling in any particular vehicles?
11 A. Yes, there were many vehicles, buses. There were Pinzgauers with
12 many people in them, in the buses. There were people who shouted, who
13 drank from the bottle. They shouted in loud voices.
14 Q. You mentioned --
15 A. There were also people who seemed more earnest. All sorts of
16 people, I would say. They looked like animals, not like human beings.
17 Q. Those people who were shouting, what language were they shouting
19 A. They shouted in their own language, in Serbian. Some didn't cry,
20 didn't shout. They were sitting in the buses. Some of them were
21 shouting out loud.
22 Q. Do you recall any particular markings on these tanks or
23 Pinzgauers or buses?
24 A. You mean markings on the vehicles?
25 Q. Yes.
1 A. The vehicles were of all sorts of colours - blue, green. There
2 were some people who were wearing headbands, and those were the ones who
3 shouted out louder.
4 MS. GOPALAN: I would like to call up exhibit -- 65 ter number
6 Q. Madam Berisha, would you be able to mark on the photograph that
7 appears on the screen where you saw these vehicles move during the day of
8 the NATO bombing? Or you could first describe it to us. There are two
9 roads running --
10 A. The road to --
11 JUDGE PARKER: Could I interrupt.
12 Mr. Djurdjic.
13 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, we have said that
14 this is special procedure and now we get a photograph that already is
15 marked by someone. I would like to ask and I would like to propose that
16 we see an unmarked photograph here and then the witness can mark, make
17 the markings. I think that we had the same problem with the tree, but
18 that was the tree 2006. But now we don't know what this is. I think
19 that the witness should tell us where things were and what things were.
20 Now we see a photograph with no date, and with the first witness that we
21 had, we had the same.
22 JUDGE PARKER: Can you assist us with the markings that appear on
23 this photograph, Ms. Gopalan?
24 MS. GOPALAN: Yes, I may, Your Honours. Firstly, the marking
25 that I would be asking Madam Berisha to make is unrelated to the markings
1 that are visible in the photograph; but more importantly, these markings
2 were markings made by an investigator but upon identification of
3 Madam Berisha herself. So these are markings that she herself provided
4 in the past, dated March 2006. These are buildings and locations that
5 she --
6 JUDGE PARKER: Well, don't tell us about them.
7 MS. GOPALAN: Okay.
8 JUDGE PARKER: We're not easy with the procedure of pre-marked
9 exhibits. If you want this witness to describe certain events, the
10 witness should be given a blank photograph, one that is unmarked I mean,
11 and she may then draw for herself what she says is correct. Now, do we
12 have an unmarked copy of this photograph available?
13 MS. GOPALAN: Yes, we do, Your Honours. It's just been admitted.
14 It's D00009.
15 JUDGE PARKER: We'll get Exhibit D9 up and move from there.
16 MS. GOPALAN:
17 Q. Madam Berisha, could you mark for us where it was that you saw
18 this convoy we were just talking about?
19 A. Yes. The convoy of the Serbian police and army members always
20 moved along the Prishtina-Prizren road, in this direction, on this road
22 Q. Thank you very much, Madam Berisha.
23 MS. GOPALAN: Could I --
24 JUDGE PARKER: Could I suggest that the point of an arrow be put
25 on the line to indicate the direction the convoys were moving. Are you
1 able to do that for us, Ms. Berisha?
2 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes. And on their way back, on
3 this side. The Prizren direction is here, and towards Prishtina they
4 moved on this direction here.
5 JUDGE PARKER: The arrow first made was on the right-hand side of
6 the exhibit in the direction in which a truck is depicted in the
7 photograph moving, and the return journey is toward the left and bottom
8 of the photograph.
9 MS. GOPALAN: Thank you, Your Honours. Could I ask that this
10 exhibit be tendered into evidence, Your Honours.
11 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.
12 THE REGISTRAR: That will be P00273, Your Honours.
13 MS. GOPALAN:
14 Q. Madam Berisha, the day after the bombing, this is the
15 25th of March, 1999, what happened in the morning of that day?
16 A. On the 25th of March, at about 5.00 a.m., there was a knock at
17 the front door of Faton's house where we were sleeping, all the members
18 of my family. I got up and opened the door. There were three Serbian
19 policemen standing at the door and they were all wearing automatic
21 Q. Could you tell us what they were wearing in terms of clothes?
22 A. They were wearing uniforms. I'm not quite sure now about the
24 Q. Did you recognise any of them?
25 A. No, I didn't, none of them.
1 Q. Did they have any distinctive markings on their uniforms?
2 A. Yes. On one of their shoulders, now I don't remember which side
3 it was, left or right, there was a white insignia.
4 Q. These three policemen who arrived at your door, what did they say
5 to you?
6 A. When I opened the door, the three of them pointed their automatic
7 rifles at me and said to me, "Where are your guests, the Americans?"
8 They cursed and they told me to ask my husband to come down. This is
9 what I did. He came down and they took him with them, and together they
10 went to our part of the house that the OSCE used as their offices.
11 Q. And when they spoke to you at the door, what language did they
12 use, Madam Berisha?
13 A. They were speaking in their language, the Serbian language, and I
14 understand the language very well and understood them perfectly well.
15 Q. You mentioned that these policemen took your husband to your part
16 of the house. Did you see anything unusual outside your house as they
17 were heading out?
18 A. When they took my husband with them, I remained there in front of
19 the house, trying to see or hear what they were going to do with my
20 husband; and at that moment a policeman came, a Serb, and he climbed on
21 the second floor where the children were and Faton as well and he started
22 to search the house. And I communicated with him in Serbian, I told him,
23 "There's nothing in there. You can only find children's clothes there."
24 On the way down he found Sebahate's bag. He searched the bag.
25 There were only some medicines for the children and Sebahate's wallet
1 there. When he didn't find anything in the wallet, he threw the bag on
2 the staircase. I followed him down to the basement and then he made the
3 sign with his fingers, the money sign, and he said to me, "You have to
4 give some money because your husband's life is in danger."
5 So I went upstairs and took 1.000 Deutschemarks from Sebahate and
6 I gave them to this policeman, and he said to me, "How do you think you
7 can save your husband's life only with 1.000 Deutschemarks?" And I said
8 to him, "I have no more money."
9 So I continued to try and find out what was going on with my
10 husband. I was looking around, and at one particular moment I saw a
11 policeman. His shirt was buttoned down. And he had some knives strapped
12 on his shoulder. I was very scared. He started running towards me, but
13 the policeman whom I gave 1.000 Euros saw this person and said to him,
14 "Zarko, Zarko, come here." He caught him by his arm and together they
15 went in the direction of the part of the house where my husband was. I
16 was very scared.
17 Q. After Zarko and this policeman left towards your husband's part
18 of the house, did you see anything outside your house?
19 A. There was a truck there and some policemen were loading it up
20 with stuff from our house - televisions, computers, things that had
21 remained in our house.
22 Q. Was it only items from your house that was being loaded into the
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Could you describe the truck to us, please.
1 A. It wasn't a big truck, but they were throwing in things, as much
2 as they could, because they were making signs with their hands to me and
3 shouting at me, "Don't come close," and they were cursing.
4 Q. Apart from the truck, Madam Berisha, could you see any other
5 vehicles from your house?
6 A. Yes. On the other side, in the vicinity of Agron's house, there
7 was a tank facing our house, so it was in front of Agron's house, this
9 Q. I'm going to stop you there for a moment so that you can mark for
10 us where Agron's house and the tank is located.
11 MS. GOPALAN: Could we call up D0009, please.
12 Q. Madam Berisha, could you mark for us on the map where
13 Agron Berisha's house is located, please.
14 A. This is Agron's house.
15 Q. Could you --
16 A. I marked it with number 1.
17 Q. And could you place a number 2 on where the tank was located,
19 A. I will try. Approximately, it was somewhere here.
20 Q. And could you place a number 2 beside your dot, please.
21 A. [Marks]
22 Q. Thank you. Thank you. And could you place a number 3 to where
23 you were at, so your house.
24 A. The house proper or the location where I was, the entrance?
25 Q. The location where you were, please. Thank you.
1 A. Here. Here is the entrance.
2 Q. Would you mark that as number 3, please.
3 A. Yes. I will do my best because my hand is shaking.
4 Q. And could you draw an arrow just towards the house that you lived
5 in with your family and Faton's family that later became the OSCE house?
6 A. Yes, this one.
7 Q. Thank you very much, Madam Berisha.
8 MS. GOPALAN: Could I ask for this --
9 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.
10 MS. GOPALAN: Thank you very much.
11 THE REGISTRAR: That will be P00274, Your Honours.
12 MS. GOPALAN:
13 Q. Madam Berisha, what happened to your husband in the OSCE house?
14 Let me rephrase that question. What happened to your husband who was
15 taken to the OSCE offices by the three policemen?
16 A. They took my husband, as I explained, and they started searching
17 the cupboards, and there they found some pictures that the OSCE had made
18 of burnt villages. So they started to shout at my husband, to curse him
19 and to beat him.
20 Q. Did they say --
21 A. I didn't see this, but my husband told me this later.
22 Q. Did they say anything in particular to him?
23 A. They said, "Now the Americans should come and defend you. You
24 asked them for help so Father Clinton should come and help you now," and
25 other similar things.
1 Q. Did you see your husband being beaten, Madam Berisha?
2 A. No, I didn't, because I was on the other side, in the other side
3 of the house. I didn't see that, but he told me this later on.
4 Q. Did you see anything when he returned to your side of the house?
5 A. Yes. When he returned I was there with my sister-in-law, Fatime,
6 and in our presence they hit them with their automatic rifle and they
7 kicked them -- they kicked him. But he stood up again, entered the
8 house, and he was all bruised on his face because of the wounds that were
9 inflicted to him with the automatic rifles and the chairs.
10 Q. Madam Berisha, you mentioned that you had given some money
11 earlier in the day to someone in your house. Did anyone else, any other
12 family member, give any money that day?
13 A. Yes. They asked money of my husband. They said to him, "You
14 must have money because the OSCE was staying in your house." And they
15 also said, "You see this tank outside your house? We will blow up your
16 house with all the children in it." So I had 3.000 Deutschemarks. I
17 feared that the Serbian people, the policemen who were there, were going
18 to ask me to take my clothes off, so all the money that I had in me, I
19 took it out and gave it to the policemen with the gloves.
20 My sister-in-law also had money in her chest and she tried to
21 take it out, but the police, with the black gloves, could not wait. He
22 put her hands in her chest and took the money out and then said to the
23 other person, "Boss, come here, look at this," and gave the money to the
24 other policeman, the taller person who resembled a commander. He seemed
25 to be their commander.
1 Q. Madam Berisha, on that day, approximately how many policemen were
2 in your home and around it?
3 A. I'm not quite certain for that particular day. Maybe 15 or 20.
4 I've forgotten that detail.
5 Q. You --
6 A. But they were of a younger age. They were not that old, the
8 Q. You've already said that you didn't recognise any of the
9 policemen, but did any of your family members recognise these policemen?
10 A. I didn't know any of them, and neither did my husband. This is
11 what he said to me. But as soon as they took the money, they ordered me
12 and my husband to go downstairs, so only Fatime, my sister-in-law,
13 remained there. My daughter, who was 16 at the time, Majlinda, she said
14 to me, "Mother, I've seen this policeman with the blonde hair and he
15 boarded the bus on every day, the same bus that I used from Mushtisht."
16 So after the events I told this my father, I told this to my
17 father, and he said that this person worked for the police station and
18 was from Mushtisht. But as I said, I didn't recognise him; my daughter
19 recognised him.
20 Q. And where did your father live, Madam Berisha?
21 A. My father was living in Mushtisht village, which is near
23 Q. After the policemen left your home, what did you do?
24 A. After they left we were really scared and decided to leave for my
25 husband's uncle's house, Vesel Berisha, whose house was just behind our
2 MS. GOPALAN: I'd like to call up Exhibit 00272, which I believe
3 is the family tree.
4 Q. Madam Berisha, could you please tell us who spent the night -- or
5 who went to Vesel Berisha's house on that day?
6 A. It was my family and I, Faton and his family, and the family of
7 Vesel Berisha in Vesel Berisha's house. Do you want me to mention
8 everyone by their name?
9 Q. Perhaps you could mention those who weren't there.
10 A. Faik Berisha, Bahrije Berisha, Vesel Berisha, Naim Berisha, and
11 Arben Berisha were not there, the ones marked with a black square.
12 Q. Thank you. So apart from those individuals you named, the rest
13 of the family stayed at Vesel Berisha's house that night.
14 A. Yes.
15 MS. GOPALAN: Your Honours, I could move on to another area of
16 evidence, the events of the next day, but this may also be a convenient
17 point to stop, so I seek Your Honours' guidance in this regard.
18 JUDGE PARKER: Very well. I think the most practical course
19 would be to adjourn now because you're now moving to a distinct part of
20 the evidence of Ms. Berisha.
21 We must adjourn now for the night, Ms. Berisha. We will continue
22 tomorrow -- sorry, we continue on Wednesday, at 2.15, in another
23 courtroom and I would be grateful if you could continue your evidence at
24 that time. The people who've been assisting you will give you further
25 assistance and directions during this gap in your evidence.
1 So we now adjourn, to resume on Wednesday, at 2.15, in
2 Courtroom II.
3 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 6.55 p.m.
4 to be reconvened on Wednesday, the 4th day of
5 February, 2009, at 2.15 p.m.