Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 2915

 1                           Friday, 27 March 2009

 2                           [Open session]

 3                           [The accused entered court]

 4                           --- Upon commencing at 9.04 a.m.

 5             JUDGE PARKER:  Good morning.  You are alone, I see, Mr. Djurdjic.

 6                           [The witness takes the stand]

 7                           WITNESS:  MAHMUT HALIMI [Resumed]

 8                           [Witness answered through interpreter]

 9             JUDGE PARKER:  Good morning, Mr. Halimi.

10             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good morning.

11             JUDGE PARKER:  The affirmation you made at the beginning of your

12     evidence to tell the truth still applies, and Mr. Djurdjic is continuing

13     with his questions.

14             Mr. Djurdjic.

15             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

16                           Cross-examination by Mr. Djurdjic:  [Continued]

17        Q.   [Interpretation] Good morning, Mr. Halimi.  Yesterday we left off

18     with that map, and I would like the legal officer, if he would be so

19     kind, as to call up the Defence Exhibit D00065.

20             JUDGE PARKER:  We've brought up the unmarked map.  Is that the

21     one you want?

22             THE INTERPRETER:  Microphone, Your Honour, please.

23             JUDGE PARKER:  The map that is shown here is without any

24     markings.  Is that the one you want?

25             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I understood that we had admitted

Page 2916

 1     yesterday the map that Mr. Halimi had marked with this number, 00065.

 2             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes.  We'll bring up D65.

 3             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.

 4        Q.   Mr. Halimi, I'd like to know how far is Lower Zabare from

 5     Upper Zabare?

 6        A.   There are the two villages are very close to each other.  They

 7     are adjacent to the extent that few people would be able to differentiate

 8     between the Upper and the Lower Zhabar.  However, if we were to try to

 9     tell the difference, at the time of the war from the centre of one

10     village to the other, it would be a distance of no more than 1 kilometre.

11        Q.   Thank you.  Well, the questions I'm asking you refer to 1999.  If

12     I ever want to ask about another time, I'll make that known.

13             Now, Mr. Halimi, from Upper Zabare to this closest area of the

14     central urban part, how far is it?

15        A.   Can you repeat it?

16        Q.   How far is Lower Zabare from the closest part of the urban part

17     of Mitrovica?

18        A.   Two to 2.5 kilometres.  No more.  Just over 2 kilometres.

19        Q.   Thank you.  And how far is Lower Zabare from Tavnik?

20        A.   Some 1.200 metres?  One kilometre and 200 metres, no more.

21        Q.   Thank you.  And now how far is from Lower Zabare to Sipolje?

22        A.   It's approximately the same distance to Tavnik.  Just about 1.200

23     metres, no more.  This is just a guess on my part.

24        Q.   Thank you.  And how far is Lower Zabare from the Kovaci

25     settlement?

Page 2917

 1        A.   About 2 kilometres.  I don't think it's 2.  Approximately 2, but

 2     a bit less, I'd say.

 3        Q.   Thank you.  And also distance from Lower Zabare to the

 4     water-supply organisation?

 5        A.   As the crow flies, it's no more than 1.200 metres.  However,

 6     there are two roads, and I spoke on them yesterday, and depending on

 7     which one you take the distance varies.  To be able to reach the

 8     water-supply company, that is.

 9        Q.   Thank you.  Approximately's good enough.

10        A.   The road that I emphasised yesterday, which is from the Zhabar

11     school to the Shipol school, the one that is vertical, and the other one

12     that joins the Mitrovica-Peje road and all the way to the water-supply

13     unit should be approximately 2.5 kilometres.  However, the other road

14     which we say it's the one that takes you to the timber-processing

15     compound should be about 500 metres more, which in my guess is about just

16     over 3 kilometres.

17        Q.   That you, Mr. Halimi.  Your father, Mahmut, what was his

18     occupation?

19        A.   My father's name was Bajram, and he worked at the

20     timber-processing unit in Mitrovica.  Then he retired due to ill-health.

21        Q.   Thank you.  How many siblings did you have?

22        A.   I had three brothers -- I have three brothers.  I have two now.

23     One has already died.  There's three of us now and two sisters.

24        Q.   Thank you.  Did you have a family house in Donje Zabare, in

25     Lower Zabare?

Page 2918

 1        A.   Yes.

 2        Q.   In 1999 when the war began, who lived in that house?

 3        A.   That house belongs to me, has belonged to me since 1998.  At the

 4     time, there were refugees from the Drenica region living in my house.  So

 5     that house is to be found in the Zhabar compound.  I lived there.  After

 6     the war, I went and established myself with my family there.  However,

 7     the house I stayed at during the war was the house that belongs to my

 8     brother which is closer to the city stadium and the Ibar River.

 9        Q.   And how about your father's family house?  Who lived there?  That

10     is, where did your father live?

11        A.   My father died in 1986.  At the time, me and my eldest brother,

12     Hasan, lived together in Zhabar at the place where he still lives, which

13     is the house adjacent to the Ibar River, which is on one extremity of

14     Zhabar, closer to the city stadium.  That was our extended family house.

15     My brother still lives in that house whilst I went and had a house of my

16     own built.

17        Q.   Thank you.  I'm sorry about asking this.  I had not seen that in

18     the statement.  Your mother was alive, though, at the beginning of the

19     war, wasn't she?

20        A.   My mother still lives.  She's 84, nearing 85.

21        Q.   You are married, and you were married at the time when the war

22     began.  You had your wife and how many children?

23        A.   I have my wife and four children.  The same I had at that time.

24        Q.   And you were living, at that time, in an apartment in the

25     northern part of Mitrovica; correct?

Page 2919

 1        A.   In fact, it was a house which I bought towards the end of 1996,

 2     and I lived there until the 25th of March, 1999, which would make it a

 3     full ten years two days ago.

 4        Q.   What were the ages of your children when the war began?

 5        A.   The -- the eldest were the grown-ups, because of a gap between my

 6     second and third child, a gap of eight years, which means that my little

 7     daughter now is 17; she was of 9 at the time.  Whilst my little son, who

 8     now is 15, was about 5 at the time.

 9        Q.   And how old were your first and the second child?

10        A.   My eldest daughter, who is now married, was born in 1984, whereas

11     my son is 23.  He turned 23 on the 23rd of March, which means at the time

12     he was about 13, whilst my daughter was 14 and a half, less than 15.

13        Q.   Thank you.  Mr. Halimi, in 1977 you got your law degree; and if I

14     understood correctly, you found employment as a clerk on a trial period

15     in the Municipal Court in Mitrovica; correct?

16        A.   Yes, that's correct.

17        Q.   Thank you.  And after this trial period that lasted one year, you

18     were elected judge of the Municipal Court in Mitrovica?

19        A.   Yes, that is correct.

20        Q.   Thank you.  And tell me, under what law were you elected judge of

21     the Municipal Court after just the trial period?  After one year's

22     apprenticeship?

23        A.   [Overlapping speakers] page on the law applicable at the time on

24     the selection of judges, which was a prerogative of the Kosova Assembly.

25     It was called the Law on the Appointment of Officials given that judges

Page 2920

 1     were part of the official structure of the time.

 2        Q.   Thank you.  Haven't judges always been part of the official

 3     structure?

 4        A.   Yes.  They were the ones who enjoyed official functions.

 5        Q.   And you claim here that an apprentice lawyer, having passed the

 6     bar exam, can legally be elected judge?

 7        A.   Yes, that is correct.  You have to pass the exam to the bar,

 8     which applied across Yugoslavia at the time; and after completing this

 9     exam, every lawyer was entitled to apply to become a judge.

10        Q.   What about technical collaborator, independent assistant,

11     research assistant?  How many years does one have to work in these

12     positions to gain experience?

13        A.   Lawyers who had gone through a period of apprenticeship at a

14     court of law had a minimum period of one year to meet, whilst others who

15     worked elsewhere, like at the municipality and so on, had a period of two

16     years to complete of this kind of apprenticeship before they were able to

17     sit the bar examination.  Which means that they were entitled to apply

18     for the position of a judge or a barrister, or, put otherwise, they would

19     have the whole array of legal instruments at their disposal.

20        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Halimi.  You're now telling me about the

21     requirements for taking the bar exam, and you are telling me that those

22     who work in state agencies are eligible after one year and outside the

23     state agencies it's two years.

24             Now, I'm asking you in a court of law the technical assistant,

25     independent assistant, and research assistant, who must already have

Page 2921

 1     passed the bar exam, also need to have a certain number of years of

 2     experience, but let's leave that aside.

 3             You left to do your military service in 1983, and in Bileca you

 4     attended the school for reserve officers; is that correct?

 5        A.   I started my military service in October 1980, and I spent it at

 6     the school for reserve officers at Bileca until the 31st of March -- or,

 7     rather, the 1st of April, 1981.  Afterwards, I went to Rijeka.

 8        Q.   Thank you.  Now, what rank did you get when you moved to the

 9     reserve force, having done your military service?

10        A.   At the end of my school years at Bileca -- I don't even know the

11     term in Albanian, but I have to say it in Serbian.  It was called the

12     rank of Vodnik, which is a lower rank than the platoon commander.

13        Q.   Now, would you listen to the questions that I'm asking you?  I

14     said when you had completed your military service - that's what I asked

15     you - and when you moved to join the reserve force, what rank did you

16     obtain at the time in the reserve force since you were attending the

17     officers' school?  You attended the officers' school while you were doing

18     your military service.

19        A.   At the end of military manoeuvres of 1987, I was given the rank

20     of captain of the infantry.

21        Q.   Thank you.  In 1992 you were elected judge of the Municipal Court

22     in Sremska Mitrovica.  You were appointed the judge there.  Now, tell me,

23     how long did you remain in that position as a judge of the

24     Municipal Court?

25        A.   I can see here in the transcript that the year recorded is 1992.

Page 2922

 1     Do you mean 1992 or 1982?

 2        Q.   I do apologise.  I meant 1982.

 3        A.   Around May of 1982 I became a judge of the

 4     District Court of Mitrovica.

 5        Q.   Thank you.  Were you a member of the League of Communists?

 6        A.   Yes.  Like everyone else who was part of the ranks of

 7     officialdom, you wouldn't be able to join the service without joining the

 8     League of Communists of Yugoslavia.

 9        Q.   Thank you.  Tell me now, please, when did you cease to perform

10     your functions as the -- as a judge of the District Court in Mitrovica?

11        A.   I terminated my work as a judge at the Municipal Court of

12     Mitrovica at the end of 1985; and on January the 1st, 1986, I opened my

13     private lawyer's office, a function which I continue to exercise today.

14        Q.   Thank you.  I don't want to dwell too long on that period when

15     you ceased to be a judge.  I looked at your statement of the

16     31st of January, 2000.  No, it wasn't 2000.  2001.  It was the

17     24th of August, 2001.  I looked at the official English version, and in

18     that statement it says that you retired, that you retired.  Now, what was

19     the reason for that?  Why did you leave your position as judge?

20        A.   I guess it might be wrong, because I have the version in

21     Albanian, and it does not mention anywhere that I ever retired.

22        Q.   I'll read that part out to you, the English version.  And it's

23     signed, and this is what it says:

24              "[In English] In the beginning of 1982, I became a judge in the

25     District Court in Mitrovica.  After my having my application approved for

Page 2923

 1     retirement, I eventually finished my careers as judge."

 2             [Interpretation] Mr. Halimi, this is a statement that you

 3     yourself signed.  I won't go into the whole of the statement of what was

 4     noted at the end by the translator, interpreter, and your approval.

 5        A.   By your leave, Your Honours, I would like to clarify here.  It is

 6     a fact that, with the applicable law at the time, the Assembly of Kosova

 7     would not issue an approval to abandon your post as a judge.  I did make

 8     such an application to withdraw from the faction, but I was not approved

 9     of it; so according to law, I had to wait for six months for my mandate

10     as a District Court judge to stop.  So after this six-month period, I did

11     abandon my post as a judge.  I was dismissed.

12        Q.   Mr. Halimi, we're talking about two different situations here.

13     One is a situation where you tender a request to be relieved of your

14     duties.  That's one thing.  At your own initiative and the Assembly has

15     to decide upon that.  And quite a different situation is when you

16     retired, and you said that you had indeed retired.  So these are two

17     different bases for ceasing to work as a judge.  Can you explain to us

18     how it was possible that you said that you had retire, and you signed

19     this statement of yours, which was the first statement you, in fact, gave

20     to the investigators of The Hague Tribunal?

21        A.   The statement was read back to me in Albanian, and to my

22     recollection, not in my statement to the investigators of the OTP and not

23     even during my testimony here in the Milosevic trial and in the

24     Milutinovic et al trial, this part was not mentioned; and as far as I

25     know, I did clarify that it is true that I filed a request.  This request

Page 2924

 1     was denied.  And after six months, according to the law, my post as a

 2     judge no longer existed.  It ceased to exist, and from that date I opened

 3     my private office and worked as a lawyer.

 4        Q.   Mr. Halimi, I read out your statement, the statement you yourself

 5     signed, and it was written in English, and I'm now going to show you the

 6     certification by the translator of that same statement of the

 7     1st of September, 2001.

 8             "Mahmut Halimi," it says, "told me that he speaks and understands

 9     the Albanian language, and the aforementioned statement I have translated

10     from the English into Albanian in the presence of Mahmut Halimi, and it

11     corresponds to the original, and judging -- and to all intents and

12     purposes he understood the statement and the translation of it, and he

13     confirmed that to the best of his recollections the facts set out in the

14     statement are truthful as I have translated them and read back to him,

15     and he asserts that by signing the statement."

16        A.   I do not understand English.  I read the translation in Albanian,

17     and I had no remarks as far as the Albanian translation is concerned.  It

18     is possible that an omission was made, or a mistake, not a deliberate

19     mistake, on the part of the interpreter.

20        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Halimi.  Let's move on.  But while we're on the

21     subject of mistakes, you said yesterday that in the transcript in the

22     Milutinovic trial there was some mistakes made.  How do you think those

23     mistakes came about in the first place?

24        A.   Well, it's not an easy job for the interpreters, and such

25     mistakes are possible.  They can occur.  However, from the context, you

Page 2925

 1     can easily tell that this is a mistake.

 2             As you saw yesterday, I reacted immediately when I saw my name on

 3     the transcript recorded as "Halilovic."  I happened to notice that

 4     mistake, but as I said, mistakes can occur.

 5        Q.   Thank you.  So what you want to say is that everything is

 6     relative.  Very well.  Let's move on.

 7             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I think that the map is already an

 8     exhibit, D65, I believe; so I don't think it needs a number as the court

 9     officer has just told me.  The only thing is that this witness has spoken

10     about distances and kilometres, and they haven't been introduced onto

11     this map.  So, Your Honours, am I right in saying that this map does not

12     need a number?

13             JUDGE PARKER:  It has one already.  It's Exhibit D65.

14             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.

15        Q.   When you became a lawyer and took up practice as a lawyer, did

16     you specialise in any particular area of the law?

17        A.   Counsel, as you may be well aware, at the time we belonged to the

18     Yugoslav system there was no specialising in any particular area of the

19     law.  Everyone on his or her free will would orient himself or herself in

20     what he or she wanted.  Maybe I'm amongst the only lawyer in Kosova that

21     deals with criminal cases, with criminal law mostly.

22        Q.   Thank you.  So I can conclude that you're a specialist in

23     criminal law.  You decided to specialise in that area, and of course the

24     state couldn't tell any of its lawyers or of the lawyers which area they

25     would specialise in in their work.  Am I right in saying that?  It was

Page 2926

 1     your own choice?

 2        A.   Yes, correct.

 3        Q.   Thank you.  Now, you as a lawyer acted independently.  You

 4     weren't a state official.  Am I right in saying that?

 5        A.   Yes.  I had my private office as a lawyer.

 6        Q.   Thank you.  I didn't understand you very well yesterday when you

 7     said that you were one of the first fighters against the judicial system

 8     that was in existence.  Could you give me a time-frame?  What period of

 9     time did you mean, and what did you mean when you said that?

10        A.   I didn't say a fighter but a fierce opponent of the Milosevic

11     regime, of the discriminatory nature, especially from 1990 onwards until

12     the NATO air campaign began.

13        Q.   Could you give us some more facts, not just descriptions and

14     qualifications, but the facts?

15        A.   Well, I will illustrate it with a case that I well remember.  The

16     dates are between 31st of December, 1990, and especially

17     1st of January, 1991.

18             That night, late at night, police forces surrounded our now

19     legendary commander, Adem Jashari.  He and his comrades succeeded in

20     escaping from this encirclement by the Serb forces.  On the following

21     day, in the early morning hours, before 7.00, the police undertook

22     measures against the inhabitants of Prekaz e Ulet village to retaliate

23     and maltreated and beat about 27 or 29 citizens.

24             I remember that day very well.  It was a clear January day.  It

25     was very cold.  We engaged ourselves for two and a half months.  I

Page 2927

 1     personally engaged myself for two and a half months to defend five

 2     members of the extended family from the -- this village and presented

 3     this case and the difficult situation in general to the representatives

 4     of different organisations that were present at Kosova at the time.

 5             I familiarised them with this horror that the inhabitants of

 6     Prekaz and its outskirts had to suffer on this January day and also

 7     informed the media in Kosova and abroad.  Of course the regime, at the

 8     time, didn't like this activity, was against this kind of activity, so

 9     lawyers, citizens, and everyone was, in a way, queuing to be interrogated

10     in front of police stations of the Milosevic regime.

11        Q.   Thank you.  I didn't understand you very well in the way that it

12     was interpreted to me, but tell us, why are Mr. Jashari and the members

13     of his group legend, or why did the legendary Mr. Jashari and his group

14     flee from the police?

15        A.   He was wanted by the police because of his public activities

16     relating to the Kosova issue.

17        Q.   Thank you.  Now, these activities that you mentioned, did they

18     involve the use of fire-arms?

19        A.   At the time, no.  Perhaps only the sparks, because in lack of

20     peaceful solution to the Kosova problem, it was expected that the Kosovan

21     people will try and fight for their rights by resorting to arms.

22        Q.   Thank you.  It seems to me that you forgot that at that time in

23     Sipolje, the legendary Mr. Jashari, with his group, killed a number of

24     policemen?

25        A.   I didn't forget that.  In 1991 and in 1992, there were no

Page 2928

 1     policemen killed in Shipol.  Later on, yes.  We have 1996, 1997, 1998

 2     when policemen were killed.

 3        Q.   And was it whom you defended after the 1st of January, 1991?  Can

 4     you explain that to me?

 5        A.   The village of Prekaz e Ulet is mainly inhabited by members of

 6     Jashari family.  There are also members of Lushtaku family, but most of

 7     the village is Jashari.

 8             I represented five persons, all of them Jashari -- Jasharis, they

 9     were not brothers or cousins of Adem Jashari.  They were distantly

10     related.

11        Q.   Mr. Halimi, you've been talking a lot, but you're not answering

12     my question.  What acts were they accused of having committed, and what

13     acts did you defend them against?

14        A.   At the time, the office of the prosecutor at the District Court

15     in Mitrovica charged them with crimes of counter-revolutionary activity

16     against the SFRY.  They were kept in detention for three months.  The

17     penal criminal procedure stopped, was suspended, after three months

18     because it was proved that they had nothing to do with the

19     counter-revolutionary activity they were charged with at the first place.

20        Q.   Thank you.  Well, from what you've just said, the judiciary

21     functioned very well during Milosevic's time.

22        A.   Yes.  During his first years in power, the real nature of his

23     regime was visible to all; and I think I managed to convey this through

24     my own personal commitment and through soliciting the help of NGOs

25     involved in human rights defences at the time, including

Page 2929

 1     Human Rights Watch, an organisation with which I had excellent contacts.

 2        Q.   Thank you.  Mr. Halimi, the police filed a report with the

 3     prosecutor's office instigated proceedings.  The court established there

 4     is no basis for further prosecution, stopped the process, and acquitted

 5     these people.  Does that mean that the judiciary were independent in

 6     their work?

 7        A.   It did function somewhat.  In fact, what was proven in -- through

 8     that process is that those five were part of the expeditionary nature of

 9     the police forces at the time, even the three months during which they

10     were kept in detention, in fact were aimed at increasing repression with

11     a view to hiding the repressive nature of the activities that the police

12     themselves had undertaken.

13        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Halimi.  You're not really being responsive, but

14     let's move on.

15             In your statement of 24 August 2001, you state:

16              "I had to find all sorts of different ways to maintain good

17     relations with the Serb authorities in Kosovska Mitrovica.  I always had

18     to act in the best interests of my clients.  The hardest moments of my

19     career were when I realised that everything is uncertain and unreliable

20     but money.  Unfortunately, those moments were frequent.  It was awful for

21     me to go back to my clients and tell them that they have to pay because

22     Serbian justice exists only if one is ready to pay."

23             Can you explain this part of your statement to the Trial Chamber?

24        A.   I would have considered myself the most fortunate of all if this

25     had never occurred.  However, this was part and parcel of a totalitarian

Page 2930

 1     country, of a criminal regime like the one that Milosevic led.

 2             I tried to explain yesterday the obvious instance where a judge

 3     at the District Court of Mitrovica had to take a petrol can, to take it

 4     to lawyers' offices - and we're talking here about lawyers who were

 5     involved in the same process - and I'm not -- talking here about money

 6     and corruption.  It was a corrupt system, and I think the nature of this

 7     corruption, at the end of the day, worked badly against the Serbian

 8     people in Kosova and particularly in Serbia itself.

 9        Q.   Thank you, but to begin with, I did not understand the bit where

10     the judge was taking petrol canister to offices of lawyers in the same

11     court.  Could you explain that?

12        A.   It's simple.  You have an empty petrol can and you take it to the

13     lawyer's office to have it filled with petrol.  I.e., lawyers,

14     solicitors, had to go and buy the petrol in about 20 minutes, 40 minutes,

15     an hour's time.  He returned and took the full petrol can to fill up his

16     car or probably to sell it.  There were quite a few solicitors in

17     Mitrovica who experienced this kind of activity.

18        Q.   Thank you.  You said that only through bribes you paid on behalf

19     of your clients could you serve their interests.  Is that correct?

20        A.   In the majority of cases, yes.  I mentioned yesterday even at the

21     municipal level, if citizens were to go to seek to have a birth

22     certificate, which is an inherent right, a citizen was to pay an

23     additional 10 Deutschmarks in order to obtain it, and this is in addition

24     to the legal fees applicable.

25        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Halimi.  We'll come back to that later, but I

Page 2931

 1     asked you for payoff -- asked you about payoffs in Serbian legal

 2     proceedings to get justice.  You said that bribes were necessary to

 3     achieve that.  Can you explain this?

 4        A.   I would need a minimum five hours to be able to explain this at

 5     some length, and I said this during my previous testimony as well.  But

 6     from the municipal level, from the -- the flimsiest of offences and up to

 7     the Supreme Court of Serbia, all these echelons were heavily involved in

 8     taking bribes to be able to bring to a satisfactory resolution cases in

 9     which Albanians were involved.

10        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Halimi.  You understand perfectly well as a man

11     who is a professional in criminal law that bribery is a double criminal

12     act, a two-pronged criminal act.  Is it clear to you that you were also

13     responsible for a criminal act in making bribes, offering bribes on

14     behalf of your clients?

15        A.   You cannot be held accountable of -- of criminal offences in a

16     criminal system, within a criminal system, within a totalitarian system

17     like the one that Milosevic led.  You can not pretend to act normally.

18     So from that point of view I would not consider it a criminal offence.

19     And we are talking here about situations of extreme necessity, and you

20     know that other considerations apply.

21        Q.   Thank you.  Did I understand you correctly that you believed that

22     the situation justifies you in everything you did?

23        A.   Milosevic himself had legitimised this kind of activity at the

24     time.  He used to bring judges from all over Serbia to work in

25     Municipal Courts inside Kosova.  The excuse given was that this was a

Page 2932

 1     patriotic duty.  In fact, the only duty that they had was to loot as much

 2     as they could.  None of them were there to apply the law.

 3        Q.   And you were an active player in that system, offering bribes to

 4     judges; correct?

 5        A.   I wouldn't describe myself as a key person.  However, depending

 6     on circumstances and the explicit interest of both parties, as well as

 7     the duty one has to give the best in the defence of one's client, the

 8     ultimate resort or choice was to bribe the judges and prosecutors of the

 9     time.

10        Q.   Thank you.  I will never agree with your methods of work, and I

11     don't think we can follow the principle that means justify everything,

12     that any method is allowed in the representation of our clients.  But

13     tell me, Mr. Halimi, who was the president of the

14     Supreme Court of Kosovo?

15        A.   You do know that at that time the Supreme Court of Kosova had

16     been suspended.  It was only the Supreme Court of Serbia that was in

17     operation.  We are talking about 1990, the time when Kosova's autonomy

18     was revoked.  All its competent bodies were dissolved, including the

19     Supreme Court of Kosova.  So the authorities of -- the authority

20     exercised until then by the Supreme Court of Kosova was passed on to the

21     Supreme Court of Serbia.

22        Q.   Mr. Halimi, by the constitution of Serbia of 1991, or 1992, I'm

23     not sure, the unified judiciary -- judicial system was established for

24     the first time headed by the Supreme Court of Serbia.  Until that time,

25     autonomous provinces had their own Supreme Courts.  I'm asking you:

Page 2933

 1     Prior to the adoption of that constitution, who was the president of the

 2     Supreme Court of Kosovo?

 3        A.   Your Honours, dear colleague, first of all, I -- I'm -- I'm not

 4     the only one who is a witness of the situation applying at that time.  My

 5     honourable colleague as well.  And we know that in March 1999, the

 6     constitution of Serbia, what we call the bloody constitution of Serbia,

 7     was approved.  It was exactly the same day when they were toasting this

 8     approval whilst in Kosova a lot of blood was being shed.

 9             Let me refresh the memory of my own colleague.  This did not

10     happen in 1991.  And from that moment onwards, it did not -- the Supreme

11     Court did not exist.  However, before 1989 there was an eminent lawyer

12     called Riza Fazliu, who no longer lives.  I think he was succeeded --

13     forgive me.  Mr. Riza Fazliu was followed by someone else until 1989, but

14     it ceased to exist in 1989.  The only thing we had was a branch of the

15     Supreme Court of Serbia based in Prishtina.

16        Q.   Thank you.  And what about Judge Pjeter Kolja?  Who was he?

17        A.   Thank you for reminding me.  Thank you.  Thank you.  I forgot.

18     Yes, Pjeter Kolja succeeded Riza Fazliu.

19        Q.   I see from your statement that you are very familiar with

20     Prizren.  Is it true that Jakup Burmani was president of the District

21     Court in Prizren?

22        A.   Jakup not Burmani but Gurmani with a G.  I don't think I ever met

23     Gurmani.  I've heard of him.  I don't think I ever met him.  However, I

24     did hear of him.  He was a judge, yes.

25        Q.   And was Judge Fadil Nushi, President of the Municipal Court?

Page 2934

 1        A.   What time do you have in mind?

 2        Q.   I mean the period that you are talking about.  Until 1991, before

 3     1991.

 4        A.   I do not know this person.  However, let me explain the judicial

 5     system, a part of which I was myself.

 6             At the time, all judges and prosecutors, beginning from --

 7     beginning at the end of 1989, were removed from their positions with full

 8     remuneration until the end of 1992.  In 1992, however, an open

 9     competition was published on the nomination of judges even though this

10     period of time from the end of 1989 to March 1992 was one in which

11     Albanian -- very, very few Albanian judges worked, did any work.  There

12     was some prosecutors, but just very few judges.

13             In 1992, however, an open competition was opened in which a

14     negligible number of judges applied, because one of the conditions to

15     apply was the explicit expression of loyalty to the state of Serbia.  So

16     from amongst the Albanians, there was a negligible number who would

17     accept expressing an allegiance of loyalty to the State of Serbia.  There

18     were very few exceptions.  There was one of the District Court

19     of Prishtina.  There was one or two in Mitrovica.  There was one

20     profession -- professional collaborator.  This was the situation.

21        Q.   Thank you.  Mr. Halimi, up until the election of judges under the

22     new constitution of Serbia, Albanians headed all the judicial organs in

23     Kosovo and Metohija, and Skender Morine was the District Prosecutor in

24     Kosovo until 1991 in Prizren.  Jakup Gurmani was the President of the

25     District Court.  Fadil Nushi was President of the Municipal Court, and

Page 2935

 1     another Albanian was his predecessor as president of the District Court.

 2             Are you going to tell me after that there were no Albanians in

 3     the judicial system of Kosovo and Metohija who were brave enough to

 4     oppose all pressures and apply for positions of judges in open

 5     competition?

 6        A.   All I can say is that I was one of those -- those who went to my

 7     colleagues and told them to not accept the apparatus of this regime, the

 8     nature of which was visible to us all, and I did help them, even

 9     materially speaking.  I gave them money.

10        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Halimi.  I forgot you called them collaborators a

11     moment ago.

12        A.   They were.  Some of them even worse than collaborators, because

13     they turned against their own people.

14        Q.   Thank you.  And did you participate in the organisation of

15     elections for the president of the Republic of Kosovo, 1990?

16        A.   Yes.  Because at the time, I led the chapter of the

17     Albanian Christian Democrat Party in Mitrovica.  So, yes, I did take

18     part.

19        Q.   Thank you.  And you also took part in the elections into the

20     Assembly of Kosovo in 1991, if I'm not mistaken.

21        A.   Yes.  In the elections to the Assembly and the referendum held on

22     or around July the 2nd, and with which Kosova was declared a republic, a

23     state with all the attributes of statehood, equal to the other

24     constituent parts of the -- Yugoslavia at the time.

25        Q.   Thank you.  And did you participant in the adoption of the

Page 2936

 1     Kacanik constitution?

 2        A.   No.  I was not there, no.  Because those who participated were

 3     the delegates who had the vote of the people, our vote.  They were the

 4     ones who gathered at Kacanik to endorse the contusion of the

 5     Republic of Kosova.

 6        Q.   And these enactments that we discussed and these processes we

 7     discussed, would you call that legal?

 8        A.   History corroborated that.  You do know that Kosova is now an

 9     independent country.  More than 56 countries have recognised it.  It was

10     a reasonable course of events which ought to have been pursued, and

11     that's what we did.

12        Q.   Thank you.  I don't want to get involved in politics in the

13     courtroom, and I'm not asking these questions for that purpose.  I'm

14     talking about 1991.  And I'm saying that in a sovereign state, taking

15     steps, the kind that you described, the state is then duty-bound to take

16     all legal steps against those who jeopardised the order of the state, the

17     constitutional order, and the legal order of that state.  Am I right?

18        A.   I think we should deal here in science and not politics, and in

19     order to become a scientist, one has to become impartial.  If we are to

20     deal in politics, you have your own viewpoint, and I have mine; and my

21     viewpoint on the matter is that I was right and my people were right and

22     they had to resort to all forms of repression on the part of the

23     Milosevic regime because Albanians historically considered themselves to

24     be a colony and the Serbian regime as a repressive one.

25             I think I should not go into history, because history will tell

Page 2937

 1     you that Kosova has always been overwhelmingly inhabited by Albanians.

 2     And from the Second World War onwards, before the First World War, before

 3     the war of 1912, and so on, it had its own distinctive attributes; but

 4     this would take a long time to be able to explain this properly.  It

 5     would take a long time.

 6        Q.   You are very loquacious in your answers, but let me make this

 7     question very simple.  Just imagine, how would the government of the

 8     Republic of Germany react if Bavaria did what you did in Kosovo in 1991?

 9     What measures would the state of the Republic of Germany take?

10        A.   Why should we not cite Southern Africa here?  Why should we cite

11     Germany?  You know that Bavaria and all the other constituent elements of

12     Germany have always been part and parcel of the same entity and having

13     the same language and so on and so forth.  Why then just cite here

14     apartheid in Southern Africa which is very, very similar to the situation

15     that applied in Kosovo?

16             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Djurdjic, we've come to the time when we must

17     have the first break.  Could I point out that we have listened with

18     complete patience for an hour and a half, and in that time you have not

19     asked questions about the events of -- that are relevant to the

20     indictment; and you are, at the moment, pursuing questions dealing with

21     the subject of political philosophy, which is not going to assist this

22     Chamber to determine the question of the guilt or innocence of your

23     client.  It's a matter of deep debate about which clearly different views

24     can be taken, but this Chamber in this trial is not going to be in a

25     position to say one side is right or one side is wrong.  That is not a

Page 2938

 1     matter we must deal with.  We have an indictment alleging offences, and

 2     they are the matters to which we must direct our attention, so that we

 3     would be very grateful when we return after the break if you were able to

 4     direct any questions you have dealing with the issues that will concern

 5     us in the trial.  Thank you.

 6             We must now have the first break, and we will resume again at

 7     11.00.

 8                           --- Recess taken at 10.30 a.m.

 9                           --- On resuming at 11.02 a.m.

10             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes, Mr. Djurdjic.

11             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

12        Q.   Mr. Halimi, in your statement from 2001, you said that you worked

13     with the Kosovo Verification Mission.  Can you tell me what your

14     involvement with that was and what your task was?  But please just

15     briefly.  Stick to the facts, please.

16        A.   I remember that this happened on the 5th of October, 1998, when

17     the international community diplomatic mission to Kosovo was deployed.

18     It followed the Holbrooke-Milosevic agreement, if you recall that.  I'd

19     been invited as a representative of the Mitrovica region, and I recall

20     this -- I recall this with some clarity, because I had to take an oath,

21     an oath to say that I should serve with the mission, to pass on

22     information depending on the itinerary and the other plans that they had

23     as part and parcel of their remit there.  This is the KDOM mission.

24        Q.   And could you tell me what reports you sent, and were you a

25     member of the mission?  What was your status?  Were you an associate or

Page 2939

 1     what?

 2        A.   Even though the primary goal of that mission was to obtain a

 3     stable situation in Kosova, that Serbian units refrain from violence and

 4     so on, I as a collaborator of this mission was duty-bound to convey to

 5     the mission in what way was the agreement being implemented on the

 6     ground, i.e., vis-a-vis, the commitment made by Mr. Milosevic in front of

 7     Mr. Holbrooke, namely the international community.

 8        Q.   Thank you.  I'm going to ask you some short questions, and please

 9     give me yes or no answers.

10             Were you paid by KDOM?

11        A.   They made an offer which I turned down.

12        Q.   Thank you.  Did you sign a contract with them?

13        A.   No, with the exception of the oath which I had to sign in their

14     presence.

15        Q.   Thank you.  What reports and how often did you send them out?

16        A.   Minimum of two or three reports a week, sometimes written,

17     sometimes imparted orally, all of them aimed at giving a chronological

18     account of what was happening in the region of Mitrovica.

19        Q.   Thank you.  Did you report on the activities of the KLA?  I mean,

20     did you report to KDOM about that?

21        A.   Yes.  I made -- I even made possible direct contacts with them.

22     So I enabled contacts between them and representatives of the KLA.

23        Q.   Thank you.  Could you tell me who you established contact with?

24     Who in the KLA, and who in KDOM?

25        A.   Given that the region of Mitrovica belonged to two of the

Page 2940

 1     military zones of the KLA, one being the zone of Drenica, the other one

 2     of Shala, I advised them to establish contacts; and to this end, I

 3     resorted to the links that I myself had with the representatives of the

 4     KLA.  They did not hold their meetings in my presence, i.e., I was not

 5     present there.  I think their main interest was that I be not seen in

 6     their presence by the Serbs whilst they went to meet KLA members, and

 7     that explains why they had their contacts separately.  I don't know who

 8     they met at that stage, but certainly it must have been the

 9     representatives of that military force at the time.  Or, rather, military

10     representatives of the mission at the time.

11        Q.   Thank you.  Can you give me the names of the KLA members that you

12     linked up with KDOM?

13        A.   Well, the -- it was liaison -- a liaison type of role between me,

14     foot soldiers, and commanding structures of the KLA.  Let me try to

15     recall two or three people I had most contacts with, meaning that we

16     enjoyed a maximum amount of trust.  Dzevad Valci [phoen], Nedzad Curbrali

17     [phoen], Ismet Hadza [phoen] in particular.  These are people who I

18     trusted not to spy on me at the Serbian police, and what they did is

19     convey information as to the venue where they would wait for the

20     representatives of the mission, which is what they did.  They waited for

21     them, and they arrived at an agreement as to where to meet.  Let me

22     reiterate, though, that I was not present at one of those meetings.  This

23     was not part and parcel of my remit.

24        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Halimi.  Now, could you tell me who it was from

25     KDOM that you linked up to the persons you've just named?  Could you give

Page 2941

 1     me the names of the KDOM people?  Kosovo Verification Mission is what

 2     KDOM is short for -- or, rather, KFOR.

 3        A.   I remember that the KDOM representative for Mitrovica was someone

 4     from Finland called Teutikam [as interpreted].  I think he a was

 5     high-ranking diplomatic representative.  To be frank with you, I never

 6     involved myself in trying to find out their professional background, but

 7     he lead the mission.  He was the one I had most contacts with.

 8             There was another one from France.  I can't remember his name.

 9     Another representative from Greece.  Another one was German.  It was four

10     or five in general.  However, most of my contacts were with Mr. Tikkanen.

11        Q.   Thank you.  Now, did you know, did you inform anybody that the

12     H -- that the KLA had taken control of territory from which the police

13     and army of the Republic of Serbia had withdrawn?

14        A.   They went and saw it with their own eyes.  It is well known now

15     that the KLA had control and -- over a part of the territory of Kosova in

16     1998.

17        Q.   Mr. Halimi, in your statement you mention, although I don't

18     understand this very well, a group -- the kidnapping of some kind.  Could

19     you tell me first what period you're referring to there?

20        A.   I'm referring to the end of 1998.  In the first two months I, in

21     the period running up to the NATO air-strikes, where specialised police

22     units, one of which was -- had established itself at hotel number 3 at

23     Zvecan and the other one at the military barracks in the centre of

24     Mitrovica at the secondary school where the old barracks are located --

25     were located.

Page 2942

 1             During the Milosevic period, the Special Forces Unit of the MUP

 2     of Serbia was established within these barracks, and it is from here that

 3     they went hunting for Albanians, as it were, usually in the -- after

 4     22.30, 23.00 in the evening.  And so they kidnapped a number of people

 5     whose remains were only found two or three days later in various

 6     locations.

 7        Q.   Thank you.  And how do you come to know that, what you've just

 8     told us about?

 9        A.   I know this very well, because these infamous units undertook

10     their activities at the same time.  They left the barracks roughly at the

11     same time, only to return there in the early hours of the morning.

12             I myself have observed them from the first floor of a nearby

13     building, of a building that's alongside the road that takes you to the

14     barracks; and I remember that they used a white Land Rover car, which

15     often had German registration plates.  I assume it was an armoured car,

16     but I'm not sure about it.  It had dark windows.  There were also three

17     or four others in a Fica car, which is one of the models of the Zastava

18     factory.

19             It's only on the following day that one would learn that two,

20     three, four Albanians were found dead, i.e., executed in different

21     locations around Mitrovica.

22             I used to observe them for days on end from a building near the

23     secondary school, from the first floor of that building.  It's about 25

24     metres from the entrance to the barracks.

25        Q.   Thank you.  So on the basis of the fact that these vehicles went

Page 2943

 1     in and out, you made these conclusions.  Am I right in saying that?

 2        A.   This is more than correct.

 3        Q.   Thank you.  Mr. Halimi, you said that someone threatened you when

 4     the KLM [as interpreted] left Kosovo and Metohija --

 5             THE INTERPRETER:  Or, rather, the Kosovo Verification Mission,

 6     interpreter's correction.

 7             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can you explain to us what

 8     happened, but just briefly, please, when the KVM left Kosovo?

 9        A.   From early October and until 26th of November, 1998, the KDOM was

10     operating there.  It was followed by the OSCE, which mission continued

11     until some days before the NATO air-strikes began.  It is true that I

12     received a threat on the 23rd of March in the evening.  It was my son's

13     birthday.  My son's name is Ylber.

14             And after these gun-shots were heard, if necessary I can describe

15     this in details because I will never forget it.

16        Q.   Thank you.  You established that that was Sinisa Lazic, you say.

17     Now, tell us who Sinisa Lazic.

18        A.   Unfortunately, it is an employee at the municipality of

19     Mitrovica, at the time someone who I knew very well and who I helped a

20     lot before the NATO air-strikes, during the war.  Because I didn't want

21     to discriminate between ethnicities, I offered my assistance and help to

22     Serbs and Albanians as well.

23             A Serb had killed his uncle's son, and I represented the family

24     of the deceased during these proceedings.  This is the person in

25     question.  And this is how he wanted to repay for my assistance.

Page 2944

 1        Q.   Thank you.  What I asked you was what he did, but you gave a very

 2     long answer about what I hadn't actually asked you.

 3             What function and post did he hold, if he had any?

 4        A.   I know he was an official at the municipality.  He was a part of

 5     an inspectorate, but I'm not quite sure which inspectorate he worked

 6     with.  Financial inspectorate or market inspectorate.  I really don't

 7     remember which one he belonged to.

 8        Q.   Thank you.  Am I right in saying that you went to see him in the

 9     morning and that you said to him, "Remember this and tell everyone else

10     who's like you that you come from the Carpathians, whereas I and my

11     people have been living here for 2.000 years, and as of this day you are

12     my greatest enemies"?

13        A.   Yes, it is true.  I didn't say "you" in plural, but I said "you,"

14     in singular, "will be my greatest enemy from now on."  If you say you in

15     plural that implies the whole Serbian nation, and that's not what I

16     meant.

17        Q.   There must be a mistake again in the interpretation, Mr. Halimi,

18     because everything that doesn't suit you seems to be an interpretation

19     mistake, but let's move on.

20             Am I right in saying that in 1998 you were warned of some

21     threats?

22        A.   These were systematic threats, I would say, dating back from

23     1990.  And I was proud of myself working on the fundamental issues

24     concerning my people and being part of those who brought freedom to

25     Kosova.  There were continuous and systematic threats, but what touched

Page 2945

 1     me most was the threat coming from this person whom I knew very well and

 2     who I helped a lot.

 3             I don't know how you would feel if you were in my shoes.

 4        Q.   Thank you.  And on the 25th of March, someone threatened you

 5     again.  1999, I mean.

 6        A.   No.  On the 25th of March, I was warned.  I received a phone

 7     call, and I was informed that my life and the lives of my family members

 8     were threatened.  The person who called me on at that day did not

 9     threaten me, but, rather, asked me to leave, fearing that something might

10     happen to me what happened actually to Latif Berisha and Agim Hajrizi on

11     the night between the 24th and 25th of March.

12        Q.   Thank you.  And what did you do?

13        A.   What I already explained yesterday.  I took the luggage that was

14     ready in the corridor, my children, my wife, put them in the car, and

15     drove to the stadium, crossed the Ibar River, and went to Zhabar.  I left

16     my house.

17        Q.   Thank you.  Could you tell me, in Zabare, how did the KLA learn

18     of the fact that you were in a house there?

19        A.   I didn't stay locked in a room in Zhabar.  I would go out in the

20     yard, communicate with hundreds and thousands of citizens who were

21     gathered in that village.  I was not hiding in a basement or cellar.  I

22     was there in the village.

23        Q.   Mr. Halimi, my question was:  How did the members of the KLA find

24     out that you were in Lower Zabare, in the house?  Can you tell me or not?

25        A.   There were two- or three-member patrols of the KLA, patrols that

Page 2946

 1     would observe the situation in Zhabar because of this great influx of

 2     people in this village.  I personally met them, greeted them in the

 3     street.  They were not dressed in uniforms.  They were in civilian

 4     clothes, but I knew them as members of the KLA.

 5        Q.   And why did you have to leave Lower Zabare according to them?

 6        A.   On the third day, as I've already explained it yesterday during

 7     my testimony and earlier, in Tamnik neighbourhood, which is kind of a

 8     neighbourhood of Mitrovica, there was a police attack.  Some citizens

 9     were captured by the police, and they were specifically asked about me;

10     and that's why that evening, on the third night, on the 28th of March, in

11     the evening hours after 8.00 p.m., in order not to put the life and

12     security of the refugees and other inhabitants of Zhabar at risk, I -- as

13     it was in other cases when hundreds of people were massacred because of

14     one person, I decided to leave my brother's house and go to Upper Zhabar.

15     I went to the Grmova mountain.

16        Q.   And tell me, please, did the members of the KLA who called on you

17     in Zabare have weapons or not?

18        A.   To tell you the truth, I didn't see that.  Maybe they had small

19     weapons on them.  I didn't ask them to show me their weapons.

20        Q.   Thank you.  You said they were not armed in your statement.  I

21     just wanted to ask you, was there a KLA hospital as well in this village,

22     Lower Zabare?

23        A.   Yes.  In the house of my relative Ymer Idrizi.  It was a

24     make-shift clinic that treated the ill and the wounded KLA soldiers,

25     soldiers that were wounded in different areas.

Page 2947

 1             The main person who looked after them was Dr. Bajram Rexhepi who

 2     is now the mayor of Mitrovica.

 3        Q.   Would I be right in saying that uniformed and armed members of

 4     the KLA did not come to the village in order not to attract police forces

 5     into the village housing their hospital, the KLA hospital?

 6        A.   I agree.  That's right.

 7        Q.   Am I right then in thinking that the police found out the KLA

 8     hospital was there and that's why they entered your village a couple of

 9     days later?

10        A.   No.  The police had no knowledge of it.  The police had a planned

11     itinerary, a plan to carry out an ethnic cleansing of this village and to

12     expel the population to Albania.  The reason was not the existence of

13     this clinic who treated civilians and wounded KLA soldiers.

14        Q.   Well, the reason was not the KLA in the mountains where you went

15     to, was it?

16        A.   No, absolutely not.  The KLA soldiers, where I was in the

17     mountains with my friends, were only looking after us, providing us with

18     food.  They had no means and capacities to defend us in case of an armed

19     attack.  There, too, two or three KLA soldiers would come to see us.  The

20     main roads were very near.  There were Serb forces on all sides.  There

21     were artillery forces nearby.  So it was not possible for them to

22     confront these forces.  They were not in position to defend us in any

23     way.

24        Q.   Thank you.  How far away were you from those roads?

25        A.   As the crow flies from the place where I was at the time - I'm

Page 2948

 1     speaking about the period of time when I left my house and stayed there

 2     together with other intellectuals from Mitrovica - the distance between

 3     this place and the Adriatic highway that continues to Montenegro is not

 4     more than 300 or 350 metres, as the crow flies, as I said.  Whereas the

 5     Peje-Mitrovica road, about 1 kilometre far.  I can show it on the map if

 6     you wish.

 7        Q.   Thank you.  Later.  Am I then right that the check-points for the

 8     search of persons moving along those roads were a way of discovering

 9     weapons and detecting KLA members mingling with the civilians?

10        A.   They knew very well that there were no members of the KLA in the

11     columns, in the convoy.  Everybody would have joined the KLA had there

12     been enough weapons.  This is my opinion.  But I guarantee you that not a

13     single KLA member abandoned his weapon to join the convoy of civilians

14     and abandon his tasks and duties received from the higher military

15     structures.  So this was not the reason of these -- the existence of

16     these check-points.  The police would carry out systematic looting of

17     these abandoned villages.  So this was their primary task not to check

18     the civilians from the convoy but to loot them.

19        Q.   Thank you.  And how do you know all this that you told me about

20     members of the KLA?

21        A.   As I said, I come from that area, and I knew many KLA members;

22     and I was familiar with the level of morale amongst them.

23        Q.   And all this that you are telling us about the convoys and the

24     number of people is something you observed from the mountains while

25     making your own conclusions; is that right?

Page 2949

 1        A.   The things that I saw occurred between 14th, 15th, and

 2     16th April, the 16th April being the date when I join the column.  At

 3     around 12.30 a.m. on the 16 -- 17th of April - correction - I joined the

 4     column together with my relatives and acquaintances from

 5     Zhabar, Mitrovica, and the surrounding area.  So this is the situation

 6     prevailing on these dates, 14th, 15th, and 16th of April, the situation

 7     that I described.

 8        Q.   Thank you.  How far away were you from the Kovaci neighbourhood

 9     at the time?

10        A.   The Kovaci neighbourhood is quite far.  You could only see the

11     smoke coming out of the houses and the buildings.  As the crow flies,

12     that would be about 3 or 4 kilometres far.  I'm speaking about the Kovaci

13     neighbourhood.

14        Q.   Thank you.  Am I right in thinking that you were not an

15     eye-witness to the incident where 26 Albanians were killed in Kovaci?

16        A.   You are right.  I was not an eye-witness to this incident; but

17     after the war, together with CCIU, I took part in the investigation.

18        Q.   Were you an eye-witness or not?

19        A.   No, I wasn't.

20        Q.   Could you see the school in Sipolje from the place you were?

21        A.   I already mentioned it yesterday that you cannot see the school

22     building at Shipol from there, but you can see the road from Zhabar that

23     stretches up to a location or a playground behind the school.  That one

24     you can see very well.

25        Q.   Thank you.

Page 2950

 1             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can I ask D00065 to be called up.

 2        Q.   I'd like to ask you what is this area north of the Ibar River on

 3     this map?

 4        A.   I didn't understand.  Can you repeat it, please?

 5        Q.   Looking at the map, which area on this map is north of the

 6     Ibar River?

 7        A.   The northern part of Mitrovica is north of Ibar River, Suhadol,

 8     Fusharc, Vinarce, Vidimiric, Caber, which belongs to the Zubin Potok

 9     municipality.  These are the villages that are north of Ibar River.

10        Q.   Thank you.  How far away were you when you were in Upper Zhabar

11     from that area north of Ibar?

12        A.   It depends.  These villages are not too far from each other but

13     not too close either.  From Suhadol to the Vinarce which is the last,

14     Vidimiric is on a hill-side.  You can see half of it, half you can't.  So

15     if you were to take into account 200, 250 metres from the road, and near

16     the road you can find Ibar.  Then there's 200, 250 metres of fields.  So

17     I'd say it's about Vinarce, Bushac, the upper and the lower one, all of

18     them are at a distance of about 700 metres from where I was, from where I

19     did my observation.

20        Q.   I'm sorry, I don't understand.  From Upper Zabare, where you are

21     in your house, to the village north of the Ibar River, there's 700

22     metres?

23        A.   You can see that in the map if you want to.  Look at the Grmova

24     mountain.  It's at an altitude of 793 metres, and look at the

25     Adriatic highway that takes you to Zubin Potok and Montenegro, and look

Page 2951

 1     at the Ibar River, or you can do the measurements yourself or call an

 2     expert in topography here, in mapmaking, to be able to do the

 3     measurements, and it is not more than 800 metres.

 4             THE INTERPRETER:  The interpreter did not catch the last

 5     sentence.

 6             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Vidimiric is about 1 kilometre away

 7     from Vinarce and Bushac.

 8             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

 9        Q.   Thank you.  And you were able to see with your naked eye the

10     people in those villages north of the Ibar River?

11        A.   They looked very, very small, like ants, but you could see a

12     massive influx.  You could see that they were people fleeing their homes

13     towards the Ibar River and converging on Zhabar.

14        Q.   Thank you.  Was your brother's son a member of the KLA?

15        A.   In a manner of speaking, we all were.  Amongst them, the -- my

16     brother's two sons.  However, they were not soldiers in uniform, because

17     there were no weapons.

18        Q.   What did you think about the fact that 30.000 people were sent

19     off towards Srbica and Pec?

20        A.   I'm very familiar with my place of birth.  I'm aware of the

21     surface area, and that includes knowledge that I've obtained through my

22     military experience.  I would say that that number should be a very close

23     approximation.

24        Q.   Thank you, but there have been witnesses here who also offer

25     approximate figures that are much lower, but let's move on.

Page 2952

 1             You say Serb forces came into the village or the outskirts of the

 2     village and started shooting from automatic weapons.  Did you see that?

 3        A.   If you're referring to Upper Zhabar, yes, I witnessed -- I

 4     witnessed that myself.  It was on the 16th of April, around 10.00.  It

 5     could be just before or just after 10.00, where, as I stated before, the

 6     last car of the convoy was behind the school, i.e., of the convoy heading

 7     towards Peje.  And as soon as the last car disappeared from view, i.e.,

 8     ten minutes or so later, police forces came into the flat area of

 9     Zhabar e Eperme, Upper Zhabar, because Zhabar is on two plains.  One is

10     flat and the other one heads towards the hill a bit.  So seen from the

11     eastern point of view, I -- right in front of the place where the sun

12     rises, I was able to observe the views.

13             Just after 10.00 we heard shooting and we saw two or three, I

14     think there were three houses -- where smoke was coming out of.  There

15     was gun shooting and then we saw inhabitants coming out of the flat part

16     of Zhabar and heading towards the Adriatic highway.  Some of them went

17     towards Mitrovica.  The others took a right and went towards that

18     timber-processing plant, if I can call it a plant.  It's a number of

19     enterprises that do timber processing.  And it's only afterwards that we

20     understood that they had suffered very badly.  They stayed there all

21     night.

22             Do you want me to continue?

23        Q.   Thank you, but will you just tell me what happened with the

24     hospital and the wounded?

25        A.   The truth is, and as I've explained it happened either on the

Page 2953

 1     12th or 13th of March -- forgive me, no, April, like I say as I explained

 2     earlier in my testimony, from Suhadol there was a police intervention and

 3     they were focusing on Zhabar.  This comprised armed units which were

 4     using the -- some sort of armoured car called Praga which I had not seen

 5     before even as a military -- even seen from my military experience.

 6             They started from Zhabar.  My mother, at that stage, was 75 years

 7     old, and so in view of what happened, I decided to go to the

 8     Upper Zhabar.  I think this occurred around the 13th of April, i.e., the

 9     time me and my family went to Upper Zhabar.

10             So from the 13th of April onwards, I was not aware of what

11     happened to the hospital and the wounded.  They must certainly have left

12     too.

13             JUDGE PARKER:  Are you ...

14             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I'm waiting because

15     the interpretation lags behind a little, and only when the witness

16     finished the interpreter started to interpret.  There is no other

17     problem.

18             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

19             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.

20        Q.   Am I right in saying that those Serb forces then continued on

21     towards Upper Zhabar?

22        A.   Let me explain this chronologically so that the situation becomes

23     entirely clear.

24             After 10.00, i.e., at about 11.00, police forces --

25        Q.   [Overlapping speakers] -- your statement.  All we need is to

Page 2954

 1     clarify certain points in it.  Or, rather, I need clarification.  So

 2     everything you've said up until now is what we can read in your

 3     statement, but I would like some clarifications.  And what I'm interested

 4     in is this:  Whether the forces going from Donji, Lower Zhabar police

 5     ones and military ones continued on to Upper Zhabar.

 6        A.   I find it impossible to give a response if I'm not allowed to

 7     give a sequence of events of which I was an eye-witness.  I was only at a

 8     distance of 50 metres from the police, the paramilitaries, and the army

 9     people; and that is the point in time when me and my family descended and

10     saw them with my own eyes.  They were on the left-hand side --

11        Q.   [Overlapping speakers] -- interrupt you again, Witness.  We have

12     all that in your statement.  What I asked you is this:  The forces that

13     passed through Lower Zabare, did they go to Upper Zabare and further on?

14     That's all I'm interested in.  Did they go up there or not?

15        A.   The forces that were in upper -- in Lower Zhabar joined the

16     forces that had been deployed throughout the Upper Zhabar, creating an

17     uninterrupted supply of police, paramilitary, and military forces.

18        Q.   Thank you.  And was there a conflict between the KLA and the

19     forces that you're talking about?

20        A.   No, there was no clash whatsoever, with the exception of --

21        Q.   That's fine, Witness.  What happened to the members of the KLA

22     with whom you were when these other forces arrived?

23        A.   I did not say that KLA members were with me all the time.  I said

24     that they did come from time to time to look after us.  They had their

25     own units deployed in Vaganica, Lubovac, and so on and so forth, engaged

Page 2955

 1     in their own military activities.  I was not saying here that there were

 2     KLA members with us all the time.

 3        Q.   So what were these KLA activities?  Tell us about them.

 4        A.   I'm referring to the place where I was staying.  All that was

 5     offered to us was food and cigarettes.  So they were trying to look after

 6     us even in those utterly difficult circumstances, whereas regarding

 7     military clashes, they were occurring, as you very well know, from

 8     Vaganica and other places.  There was fierce clashing between Serbian

 9     police and army forces and the KLA troops.

10        Q.   Thank you.  And from the Vaganica area and direction, did the

11     civilian population go from there?

12        A.   As I explained it, it happened on the 14th of April.  They

13     suffered the same fate, chased away by Serbian police and army forces.

14     They did not leave of their own free will.  They did not live their homes

15     and come all the way to Zhabar.

16        Q.   Witness, you've just said that in Vaganjica there was a clash

17     between the KLA and the Serb forces.  And that armed combat took place;

18     is that right?

19        A.   Sir, you ought to have some information about Vaganica, how big

20     it is and what it is a party of.  Where the civilian population of

21     Vaganica was, it was almost joined up to the village of Shipol, whereas

22     the other part of Vaganica which is separated by the Lushte river is the

23     place where the military activities were occurring, which then continued

24     in Pirc, Vinarce, Lubovec, and all the way to Prekaz.

25        Q.   Thank you.  So what you want to say is that the civilians sat

Page 2956

 1     quietly in their part of Vaganica village while there was fighting across

 2     the river.  Is that what you're saying?

 3        A.   They had nowhere else to go.  In such circumstances, with this

 4     danger posed on them, they had to stay somewhere.

 5        Q.   Thank you.  During the time you were in the village, was there

 6     any bombing going on, NATO bombing of Mitrovica and the surrounding area?

 7        A.   Yes.

 8        Q.   Can you tell me what parts of Mitrovica were bombed?

 9        A.   What I personally saw was the military barracks at Svinjare.  I

10     think it was bombed on the 15th of April, if I remember correctly.  It

11     was hit three or four times.  And following this, the mines exploded

12     around the complex of military barracks there.  I observed this from

13     where I was.  These were mines that were placed around the fence around

14     the barracks.

15        Q.   Thank you.  From the place you were at, you didn't see that a

16     civilian -- any civilian facility was damaged.  Is that what you're

17     saying?

18        A.   From what I know, in Mitrovica there were no such cases.  After

19     the war, however, I heard that the -- a civilian facility next to the

20     police station that had been hit by NATO was destroyed and a woman had

21     died as a result of the building being bombed, the police building.

22        Q.   Thank you.  Can you tell me what you mean when you say

23     "paramilitary formation"?

24        A.   For me, a paramilitary formation would be an organised gang of

25     people with experience from Bosnia and Croatia organised in such a way

Page 2957

 1     that they were placed under the command of the police and military

 2     structures.  And as gangs, they took part in the looting, in the sexual

 3     assaults, and other forms of crimes.  For example, Arkan's Tigers; the

 4     unit of Frenki Simatovic, although it was within the framework of MUP and

 5     you know that very well; and other organised units that in a way imitated

 6     the Arkan unit, which were situated at the police station in Mitrovica

 7     during 1998.

 8        Q.   Thank you.  Now, how do you differentiate between the

 9     paramilitary formations and official formations or units?

10        A.   They were different in terms of uniforms, structure.  They were

11     smaller.  They operated in smaller groups.  And difference in terms of

12     behaviour, a behaviour typical for them demonstrated in the wars in

13     Bosnia and Croatia and repeated in the war in Kosovo.

14             If you would like to hear more, I can illustrate what I said with

15     an example.

16        Q.   Thank you.  And how do you call the mobilised reserve force, and

17     how do you differentiate between that force and these other formations

18     and units?

19        A.   They were more like supporting units, I would say.  An accessory.

20     They wore old type of military uniforms, the olive-grey uniforms.  As it

21     is called in Serbian, SMB, from the time of Tito.

22             This is what I saw in the location between the villages of

23     Cubren and Vitak near the telephone cables that I mentioned.

24        Q.   Thank you.  Now, you were in a car with your family, in a column,

25     when you set out towards Pec.  Am I right?

Page 2958

 1        A.   Yes.  The last in the convoy.

 2        Q.   What documents did you have on you?

 3        A.   I think I had my ID, driver's licence, car registration document.

 4     I'm not sure whether my car registration document was seized by the

 5     police when they seized my car.  This I don't know for sure.  They seized

 6     my car, the car of my brother, and my brother's son-in-law as we came

 7     down from Zhabar.  I had a Mercedes make car, 190 type.  I'm sure I had

 8     my ID and my driver's licence on me.

 9        Q.   Thank you.  But I think that these cars -- as far as these cars

10     are concerned, your brother went to fetch them, but they were not in

11     working order and that he wasn't able to switch the engine on.

12        A.   That wouldn't be correct.  If you read my statement carefully, it

13     should say that my brother and his son-in-law, the following day, after

14     hearing from some citizens that the police were selling the same cars

15     that they had seized from citizens, they set out to get back the vehicles

16     we had.  When they went there, they couldn't find our cars.  A policeman

17     called Novica from Zubin Potok, who knew my brother, made it possible for

18     him to go to the neighbourhood and choose a car.  So it is not true that

19     we left the cars because the engines wouldn't start.  Our cars were taken

20     by the police, the three of them.

21        Q.   And which cars were you in when you were in the convoy?

22        A.   I've already explained this too.  When we arrived at Shipol

23     school and the lower part of the road, about 50 metres away from the

24     fence of the school-yard, there there were different cars.  My brother's

25     son-in-law, who was a car mechanic, although he is an economist by

Page 2959

 1     profession, but he was taught in this business by his father, he managed

 2     to start the car and brought this Golf-make car to me.  We were eight in

 3     the Golf, and then we towed a Moskowich that we found on the road, and we

 4     towed the Moskowich up to Albania.

 5        Q.   Thank you.  Am I right in saying that none of your documents were

 6     confiscated?

 7        A.   How can you possibly be right when I already told you that they

 8     seized my car registration document when they seized my car?  At the

 9     border, I handed over the other documents.  I know that after we crossed

10     the border my passport was found in the luggage with our clothes.  My

11     wife found it and told me that I had my passport.

12        Q.   But you had your car registration --

13        A.   Driver's licence. [In English] My driving licence.

14        Q.   You said that you weren't searched at the border crossing by the

15     policeman.

16        A.   [Interpretation]  At the border crossing, at the facility there,

17     they would shout, "To the right, to the right, and straight to Albania."

18     Nobody would body-search us there; but as we were waiting in the column

19     to cross the border, a policeman would come and ask for all personal

20     documents, passports, IDs, driver's licence, car registration, borders,

21     and they will tell us to leave or hand over these documents at the

22     crossing.  Otherwise, if they find documents on us, they would kill us.

23             So the people were throwing away their personal documents out of

24     fear, and you could tell that their aim was to deprive us of our

25     identity.

Page 2960

 1        Q.   Mr. Halimi, my question was:  Am I right in saying that you were

 2     not searched at the border crossing by the police?

 3        A.   This is a different question.  It is true that at the border

 4     crossing we were not searched.

 5        Q.   Thank you.  Am I right in saying that you do not have any

 6     immediate personal knowledge as to who set your house on fire and in what

 7     way this was done in Mitrovica?

 8        A.   I found out in the meantime, and I sent a message.

 9        Q.   Thank you.  My question was that you weren't an eye-witness.  Am

10     I right in saying that?

11        A.   No.  I was told by others that my house was set on fire on the

12     3rd or 4th of April.

13        Q.   Thank you.  Am I right in saying that you weren't a witness to

14     how the mosque in Mitrovica was damaged?

15        A.   Yes, you're right.  I wasn't.

16        Q.   Thank you.  Am I right in saying that you weren't an eye-witness

17     of the killing of Jatif [as interpreted] Berisha?

18        A.   No, I wasn't, and this is in my statement.

19        Q.   Thank you.  You weren't an eye-witness to the killing of

20     Jahim [as interpreted] Hajrizi either, were you?  Thank you.

21        A.   [Overlapping speakers]

22        Q.   [Overlapping speakers] -- right in saying --

23        A.   [Overlapping speakers] -- Agim Hajrizi.

24        Q.   A correction to the name.  Yes, I apologise if I mispronounced,

25     but am I right in saying that during your journey to the border, you

Page 2961

 1     weren't looted?

 2        A.   That's correct.  I wasn't looted.  I was lucky not to be looted.

 3        Q.   Thank you.  I'd just like to ask you one more thing, Mr. Halimi.

 4     You became a judge again.  You took up your job as a judge after the war

 5     in 1999; right?

 6        A.   Yes.  As of 1st of September, 1999, judge at the District Court

 7     in Mitrovica.

 8        Q.   And for how long were you a judge of the District Court in

 9     Mitrovica?  Until when?

10        A.   For some 22 or 23 months.  Sometime until April 2001.  Until

11     April 2001.

12        Q.   And why did you cease being a judge?

13        A.   At that time, the decision to apply for the post of a judge was

14     made on the recommendation of my colleagues from the OSCE so that I could

15     continue to contribute to the judicial system in Kosova after the war.

16     However, I was in love with what I was doing, working as a lawyer; so for

17     these 22 or 23 months, I think I did give a considerable contribution to

18     the development of the judicial system in Kosova.

19        Q.   Am I right in saying that among other things you were the judge

20     in -- in the trial of individuals who were accused of the killing of your

21     friend Hajrizi?

22        A.   In Mitrovica, known as a multi-ethnic city, we had almost every

23     ethnic group of Europe as an inhabitant of Mitrovica.  It is true that I

24     was judge in that trial.  I've perhaps explained it earlier.  I was quite

25     emotional about this young man.  I could never understand why this

Page 2962

 1     hatred.  Nenad Pavicevic and Agim Hajrizi lived very close.  Only a wall

 2     separated their house.  They grew up together.  So why all this hatred?

 3        Q.   So you believe there was no reason for accusal, and you were an

 4     objective judge, but I wanted to ask you something else.

 5             Do you think that a person who has offered a bribe to judges in

 6     his life, and done similar deeds, meets the moral requirements to perform

 7     as a judge?

 8        A.   We left everything behind with the end of the war.  The end of

 9     the war changed everything in Kosova.  It changed the morale, as well

10     what we once were forced to do that, now we were committed to do that.

11     If Kosova was well established, and if someone else was prepared to take

12     up that case, I wouldn't have been involved.  However, the Trial Chamber

13     asked for a copy from this judgement, and I wish that the Trial Chamber

14     has a copy of that judgement and appreciate how fair that judgement was.

15     We were impartial.  A Swedish judge was member of that Trial Chamber.  He

16     was an excellent judge.  He helped me a lot, not only in this case but in

17     other cases that I tried at this court.

18        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Halimi, but I think that ethics do not change

19     depending on the circumstances and that human values are the same in any

20     period of time.

21             You have no further questions.  Thank you for your answers.

22             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] And thank you, Your Honours, for

23     your patience in my cross-examination.

24             JUDGE PARKER:  Well, we must have that second break now, and we

25     will resume again at 1.00 for re-examination.

Page 2963

 1             MR. BEHAR:  Your Honours, I can indicate that I have no

 2     re-examination.

 3             JUDGE PARKER:  Excellent.  Thank you.

 4                           [Trial Chamber confers]

 5             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Halimi, you will be pleased to learn that that

 6     concludes the questioning of you.  We have the oral evidence that you've

 7     given to us and the transcript of your previous evidence.  We wish to

 8     thank you for your assistance and for coming here yet again to give

 9     evidence.  You are now, of course, free to go to your ordinary

10     activities, and the court officer will show you out.  So thank you once

11     again.

12             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.

13                           [The witness withdrew]

14             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Behar, are you able to assist us with the

15     programme for the rest of today?  Is there another witness ready at the

16     moment?

17             MR. BEHAR:  Yes, there is, Your Honours, and it's Ms. Sadiku.

18     Silvia D'Ascoli will be questioning her, and she's ready, she can appear

19     after the break.

20             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you very much.  We will then resume at five

21     minutes past 1.

22                           --- Recess taken at 12.36 p.m.

23                           --- On resuming at 1.07 p.m.

24                           [The witness entered court]

25             JUDGE PARKER:  Good afternoon.  Would you please read aloud the

Page 2964

 1     affirmation that is shown to you now on the card.

 2             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will

 3     speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

 4                           WITNESS:  SADIJE SADIKU

 5                           [Witness answered through interpreter]

 6             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you very much.  Now, I think Ms. D'Ascoli

 7     has some questions for you.

 8             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Thanks, Your Honour.  Before we start I can

 9     indicate that Ms. Sadiku's evidence relates to paragraph 72(f), 73, and

10     77 of the indictment.

11                           Examination by Ms. D'Ascoli:

12        Q.   Good morning, Witness.  Could you please state your full name for

13     the record.

14        A.   Yes.  My name is Sadije Sadiku.

15        Q.   And when and where were you born, Ms. Sadiku?

16        A.   I was born on July the 1st, 1978, in Mitrovica.

17        Q.   Where are you currently residing?

18        A.   I -- I live at Sabor e Eperme, or Upper Zhabar.

19        Q.   And what is your current occupation?

20        A.   -- employed.

21        Q.   Ms. Sadiku, on the 15 of August, 2006, did you provide a

22     statement to a representative of the Office of the Prosecutor events that

23     you had experienced and witnessed in Mitrovica in 1999?

24        A.   Yes.

25        Q.   And have you recently had the opportunity to review your written

Page 2965

 1     statement?

 2        A.   Yes.

 3        Q.   Are you satisfied that information contained in it is true and

 4     accurate to the best of your knowledge and belief?

 5        A.   Yes, that is correct.

 6             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Your Honours, I seek to tender the

 7     65 ter number 02256, which is Ms. Sadiku's witness statement.

 8             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

 9             THE REGISTRAR:  That will be P00502, Your Honours.

10             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Thank you.  And I should mention, Your Honours,

11     that attached to the statement are the witness medical reports from

12     Albania and Germany where Ms. Sadiku was hospitalised in 1999.

13             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

14             MS. D'ASCOLI:

15        Q.   Ms. Sadiku, did you also testify about the same events before

16     this Tribunal in the Milutinovic et al case August 2006?

17        A.   Yes, it is.  Yes, it is true.

18        Q.   Have you recently had the opportunity to review the transcript of

19     your testimony in the Milutinovic et al case?

20        A.   Yes, I have seen.

21        Q.   And does the transcript accurately reflect your evidence, and

22     would you testify to the same facts today?

23        A.   Yes.

24             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Your Honours, I seek to tender the

25     65 ter number 05141 into evidence, please.  It is the transcript of

Page 2966

 1     Ms. Sadiku's testimony.

 2             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

 3             THE REGISTRAR:  That will be P00503, Your Honours.

 4             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Thank you.  I will now proceed to read a summary

 5     of this witness evidence.

 6             The witness is a Kosovo Albanian from the village of Zhabar in

 7     Mitrovica.  She describes the forcible expulsion of Kosovo Albanians from

 8     Zhabar in mid-April 1999.

 9             On the 13th of April, 1999, the police began burning houses in

10     Zhabar and expelling people from their houses.  The following day, the

11     witness and her family were told to leave by the police.  They joined a

12     column of people headed towards Albania.  They marched for some days.  A

13     part of the convoy of refugees was then directed to the village of

14     Zablace and was told by the police to stay there.  The witness was in the

15     group of people she remained in Zablace for three weeks at all time

16     watched over by the police.

17             On 6 May, 1999, in Zablace, the witness was hit in her back by a

18     sniper.  She was taken for basic medical assistance to the village of

19     Zahac.  When the Serb police expelled people also from Zahac, the

20     refugees proceeded in a convoy towards Albania finally crossing the

21     Albanian border on the 12th of May, 1999.  And the witness was in that

22     convoy.

23             In Albania, the witness was taken to the hospital in Tirana where

24     she received the medical assistance and had the first surgery.  She was

25     later transferred to Germany for further medical assistance.  The witness

Page 2967

 1     is paralysed as a result of those injuries.

 2             And this is the end of the summary.

 3        Q.   Ms. Sadiku, I will now move to your statement and ask you some

 4     questions to clarify some events.  Can you tell us where were you living

 5     in April 1999?

 6        A.   Until April the 13th, we lived in the village of Zhabar.  On the

 7     13th of April, Serbian forces starting setting fire to the houses in that

 8     village forcing us to go to the mountains.

 9             On the 13th of April, we spent the night up in the mountains in

10     the cold and the rain.  There were too many of us, and there was

11     absolutely nowhere to stay, to seek shelter.  We returned on the

12     following day because a lot of rain had fallen.  We'd had nothing to eat.

13        Q.   Sorry, may I stop you there.  How far is the village of Zhabar

14     from Mitrovica town approximately?

15        A.   Three kilometres.

16        Q.   And you just mentioned that there were people who fled with you

17     to the forest on the night of the 13th of April.  Can you tell us what

18     their ethnicity was and why they also had left their villages?

19        A.   We were all Albanians.  We were forced out of our homes.  The

20     only place where we could find some shelter was at Zhabare e Eperme; that

21     is my village.  And I'm referring to the period up to the 13th of April.

22        Q.   And before I interrupted you, you were about to describe what

23     happened the following day on the 14th of April when you returned to your

24     house.  Can you please describe what happened then?

25        A.   Okay.  We returned on the 14th of April to have a change of

Page 2968

 1     clothes because we'd been soaked, as a result of the rain.  As soon as we

 2     changed and we started preparing something to eat, Serbian forces arrived

 3     in the village and forced us out again through the use of force.

 4        Q.   And in paragraph 14 of your statement you say that the police at

 5     gunpoint threatened you and told you to leave the house immediately.  Did

 6     they give you an explanation for that?  Did they tell you why you had to

 7     leave?

 8        A.   They came into the house.  They -- at gunpoint they told us to

 9     leave the home within five minutes, otherwise they'd kill us all.

10        Q.   In paragraph 16 you mention that while marching in the column of

11     refugees that you joined, you passed by a number of check-points.  Can

12     you tell us who was manning those check-points?

13        A.   Yes.  There were Serbian police and soldiers as well in the

14     majority of the places we went through.

15        Q.   Could you describe the police uniforms?

16        A.   Yes.  It was blue and black.

17        Q.   Ms. Sadiku, I will now show you a photo-board.

18             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Can I please have on the screen

19     65 ter number 02375.  Thank you.

20        Q.   Ms. Sadiku, is there any --

21             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Yeah, that's fine, thanks.

22        Q.   Ms. Sadiku, is there any among these pictures which represents

23     the uniforms, the colours of uniforms that you saw in April 1999?  The

24     one that you just described now.  Could you indicate that to us?

25        A.   Yes.

Page 2969

 1        Q.   Maybe you could place a cross close to the picture that you

 2     recognise, if you can.

 3        A.   It's that one there.

 4        Q.   And this resembles which -- which uniforms or which forces that

 5     you saw that day?

 6        A.   It belongs to the police forces.

 7        Q.   Okay.

 8             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Your Honours, I seek to tender this exhibit as

 9     marked by the witness.

10             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

11             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Thank you.

12             THE REGISTRAR:  That will be P00504, Your Honours.

13             MS. D'ASCOLI:  I should mention that the same photo-board is one

14     of the attachments to the witness statement, but there it is only a

15     photocopy and not in colour.  Therefore, it is not visible exactly the

16     type of uniforms that the witness marked, so maybe with this colour copy

17     it is a better visual aid for Your Honours.

18             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

19             MS. D'ASCOLI:

20        Q.   Ms. Sadiku, now let's go back to your statement.  There you

21     mention in paragraphs 18 and 19 that you kept walking in the column of

22     people for two or three days without any rest and that you were all very

23     exhausted and in bad condition and that the police told you to continue

24     marching.

25             I was wondering, can you please tell us the direction you took

Page 2970

 1     when you left your village, Zhabar, on that morning of the 14th of April?

 2        A.   In the morning of the 14th of April we were told to go to the

 3     main road.  As soon as we arrived, some other policemen who were

 4     stationed in the village told us to go to some sort of a lumberyard to

 5     join up with the other people already gathered there.

 6        Q.   Do you remember the name of the locations where you were heading

 7     to or where you arrived or passed by?

 8        A.   This place is at Zhabar Ulet.  Lower Zhabar.  It is in between

 9     Zhabar Ulet or lower Zhabar and Shipol.

10        Q.   Where did you go after that?

11        A.   So they brought us together at this location, and on the

12     following day they told us to go to Tirana.  They said everybody had to

13     leave Kosovo and go to Tirana.

14        Q.   I'm going to show you a map.  Probably that can assist us to

15     identify the places you went through.

16             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Can I please have on the screen the

17     65 ter number 00039.  Thanks.  If we can enlarge, zoom a bit on the top

18     part of the map.  Maybe a bit more.  Yeah, that's enough.

19        Q.   Are you able to see properly, Ms. Sadiku?

20        A.   Yes, I do.

21        Q.   I was wondering whether you can recognise or identify your

22     village, Zhabar, on this map.

23        A.   Yes.

24        Q.   Could you please encircle it and maybe place a number 1 close to

25     it.

Page 2971

 1        A.   [Marks]

 2        Q.   Thank you.  Do you also see the following places where you went

 3     to afterwards?

 4        A.   Yes.

 5        Q.   Can you please specify them, name them?

 6        A.   From Zhabar we went to Shipol, and from Shipol to Lushte.

 7        Q.   Could you please encircle the village of Shipol.  Put a number 2

 8     close to it?

 9        A.   Yes.

10        Q.   Thank you.  And could you please do the same with Lushte.  Mark

11     on it with the number 3 please?

12        A.   [Marks]

13        Q.   Thank you.  Do you remember where you went to after Lushte?

14        A.   After Lushte we went to Kline e Eperme, or upper Kline.

15        Q.   Can you see this village on the map, Ms. Sadiku?

16        A.   I can see it.  However, in this map of yours all that's written

17     is "Middle Kline."  However, it is the same.

18        Q.   Because you mentioned Kline e Eperme, right, which is

19     Upper Klina.

20        A.   Yes.

21        Q.   Okay.  Did you also pass by Klina -- Middle Klina, Kline e Mesme,

22     I think?

23        A.   Yes, I did.

24        Q.   Could you please encircle this village and put a number 4 close

25     to it.

Page 2972

 1        A.   Yes, I will.

 2        Q.   Thank you.

 3             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Your Honours, I would like to tender this exhibit

 4     as marked by the witness, please.

 5             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

 6             THE REGISTRAR:  That will be P00505, Your Honours.

 7             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Thanks.  I see my learned friend on his feet,

 8     Your Honours.

 9             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Djurdjic.

10             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] No, I have no objection.  I just

11     want to say that on the map we can see the upper Drina River, and the

12     witness can right below Lower Klina locate Upper Klina and she can mark.

13             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Thanks.  She mentioned that she passed through

14     Kline e Eperme and then from -- also Kline e Mesme.  So I think that's

15     enough.  She couldn't locate it on the map, so that's fine, but thanks.

16        Q.   Ms. Sadiku, after passing through Klina, and you passed through

17     the Skenderaj municipality, you then proceeded towards Peje, and in

18     paragraph 23 to 24 of your statement you say that the police at some

19     point ordered you to stay -- to go and to stay in the village of Zablace.

20     The village was deserted and then you remained there for about three

21     weeks.  Ms. Sadiku, can you please describe to us what happened to you on

22     the 6th of May, 1999.

23        A.   We were forced by the police to go to the village of Zablace, not

24     Zahac, where we spent three weeks.  There was nothing to eat at the end

25     of the three-week period because the village had been shelled.  The

Page 2973

 1     villagers had left their village.  It was only those of us from Mitrovica

 2     who were there at the time.

 3             On the 6th of May at 8.00 in the morning I went out to bring in

 4     some potatoes.  We had -- as we had nothing to eat.  There was me and

 5     eight of my friends, and at that stage I was hit in my spine at 8.00 in

 6     the morning on the 6th of May, 1999.

 7        Q.   Thanks.  Can you describe how that happened if you feel like?

 8        A.   As I mentioned earlier, me and my friends, we went two or three

 9     houses away from the one we were staying at to try to fetch some

10     potatoes.  Potatoes were the only sustenance we had.  On our way, we saw

11     the police were stationed in the courtyard of the church.  We went to

12     fetch the potatoes, and on our way back my friend says, "My hands or my

13     arms are a bit tired.  Can we swap?"  At that stage, I had my back

14     towards the police; and all of a sudden I felt some pain in my back and

15     fell down.

16        Q.   Ms. Sadiku, as a consequence of this injury, then you - in

17     paragraph 32 of the statement for reference - you were carried to the

18     village of Zahac.  In which municipality is this other village?

19        A.   The village of Zahac belongs to the Peje municipality.

20        Q.   I will show you another map, Ms. Sadiku, of the Pec municipality.

21             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Can I please have on the screen

22     65 ter number 00032.  And if we can zoom on the area just south of Istok,

23     please.  A little bit up, please.  If you can scroll it up.  Thank you.

24     That's enough.

25        Q.   Ms. Sadiku, can you see the village of Zablace on this map?

Page 2974

 1        A.   Yes.

 2        Q.   Could you please draw a circle around it and put a number 1 close

 3     to it.

 4        A.   Yes, I will.

 5        Q.   Thanks.

 6        A.   [Marks]

 7        Q.   Can you also see where the village of Zahac is located, the

 8     village where you were brought to after your injury?

 9        A.   The village of Zahac.

10        Q.   Can you see it on the map or not?

11        A.   No.

12        Q.   Doesn't matter.

13             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Your Honours, I would like to tender this exhibit

14     as marked by the witness, please.

15             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

16             THE REGISTRAR:  That will be P00506, Your Honours.

17             MS. D'ASCOLI:

18        Q.   Ms. Sadiku, in paragraph 34, yes, 34 of your statement, you

19     mentioned that the police expelled the people also from Zahac and that

20     you had -- you were placed on a tractor and you had to join a convoy

21     heading towards Peje.  Can I ask you, what did you observe once in Peje?

22        A.   Police again stopped us when we arrived in Peje and stripped us

23     of all the documents we had on us.  I'm talking about travel documents.

24     They tore them apart and burned them down.

25        Q.   And then in paragraph 36 you said that the convoy proceeded

Page 2975

 1     towards the Albanian border.  Do you remember the way you took, the towns

 2     and villages you passed by before arriving to the Albanian border?

 3        A.   Yes.

 4        Q.   Can you -- can you tell us, please, or can you name those

 5     villages, or just the road you took towards Albania.

 6        A.   Peje, Prizren, Zhur, and after that I don't know.

 7        Q.   Okay.  And in paragraph 36 again you say that the convoy was

 8     stopped in a number of check-points.  Can you tell us who manned those

 9     check points and what happened at those check-points?

10        A.   As I said earlier, police stopped us in Peje.  They requested our

11     documents, which they set fire to, and again before crossing the border

12     into Albania, police again stopped us.  They wanted money, jewellery.

13     Some people were mistreated and so on.

14        Q.   Did you see -- can did you see check-points also after Peje along

15     the road towards Albania?

16        A.   Yes.  As I said earlier, before crossing the border area, Serbian

17     police stopped us there.

18        Q.   What happened there?

19        A.   They stopped us, and they asked us to give them 500 Deutschmarks.

20     They said if we did not produce the 500 marks we were to be turned back

21     and not allowed across the border.

22        Q.   Ms. Sadiku, in paragraph 36 you mention that the road you took

23     towards Albania was via Decane, Djakovica, Prizren, and Zhur.  Does that

24     refresh your memory?  Is that correct?

25        A.   Yes, that is correct.  Thank you.

Page 2976

 1        Q.   Ms. Sadiku, what happened when you arrived in Albania?  And this

 2     is almost the end of my examination.

 3        A.   When we crossed the border into Albania, my sister Lutfije [as

 4     interpreted], who was with me all the time, she saw one of the customs

 5     officers of Albania and told him that I was wounded on that tractor.

 6     Later, KFOR forces of the Italian contingent were able to evacuate me and

 7     give me the first aid.

 8        Q.   Ms. Sadiku, which is your current health situation, if you can

 9     tell us?

10        A.   Yes.  In the year 2006, I came to testify here before this

11     Tribunal, and I had ten operations on me in 2006.  I had an additional

12     two in the meantime.  Say for the past ten years I have undergone 12

13     operations altogether, and I'm in an awful medical situation, as you can

14     see.

15        Q.   Thank you very much for having -- having answered my question,

16     Ms. Sadiku.

17             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Your Honours, I don't have other questions for

18     this witness at this stage.

19             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you very much, Ms. D'Ascoli.

20             Mr. Djurdjic, we're very concerned about the length of time that

21     it will be necessary for the witness to remain in The Hague.  Can you

22     indicate how long you expect to be in cross-examination?

23             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I'll try to finish

24     both witnesses on Monday.

25             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Your Honours.

Page 2977

 1             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes, Ms. D'Ascoli.

 2             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Could I please suggest something?  As

 3     Mr. Aleksandric, as you're aware, needs to leave and to finish his whole

 4     entire testimony on Monday.  Could we maybe start in chief with him and

 5     actually complete the direct examination and cross-examination, and after

 6     we finish with him we may continue with Ms. Sadiku if -- if the Defence

 7     agrees?

 8             JUDGE PARKER:  We will be, we believe, necessary to complete both

 9     witnesses by the end of Monday because of their personal situations, and

10     that will require a great deal of time discipline.  There are clearly

11     some issues which are worthy of exploration, but there are others that

12     may not be so important and should be left aside.

13             The order in which the witnesses are called on Monday is a matter

14     that is not of great importance to the Chamber, but it may be that it

15     will be beneficial to finish this witness as quickly as possible and then

16     go to the other witness on the basis that we will finish both of them on

17     Monday, and therefore the time spent on each will have to be very

18     limited.

19             It may be discussed between counsel, the order that would be

20     preferred for Monday.  We will accept whatever counsel agrees.  If there

21     can be no agreement, we would propose to continue first with this witness

22     and then to go to the witness Aleksandric, and we will be watching time

23     very shortly.  It will not be possible to spend a full session with this

24     witness if we are to deal with Aleksandric, unless you are able to revise

25     your cross-examination.

Page 2978

 1             MS. D'ASCOLI:  That's fine.

 2             JUDGE PARKER:  So that is the course we will take.  Please be

 3     aware that there are some limited movement problems on Monday because of

 4     the international meeting on Tuesday.  And movement into and out of this

 5     building on Monday will be limited.  So if you can make -- take care to

 6     ensure, and Victims and Witnesses Unit will be doing it as well, that the

 7     witnesses are able to enter the building for Monday.

 8             Is there any further guidance that counsel need?

 9             MS. D'ASCOLI:  No, Your Honours.

10             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I say the Defence

11     will complete the cross-examination of both these witnesses by the end of

12     Monday.  You need not be concerned about that.  The timetable, the

13     schedule, may be whatever you decide or whatever suits the Prosecution.

14     The Defence will fit into that, no problem.

15             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

16             Ms. Sadiku, you will be aware that we have to adjourn now for the

17     day because of other commitments.  Your evidence will continue on Monday.

18     I'm sorry that it means that you will need to stay here over the weekend.

19     I understand arrangements are in place to ensure that you're as

20     comfortable as can be in the circumstances, and we hope that this will

21     not be too great an inconvenience to you.

22             The people who are assisting you will give you further guidance

23     about your movements on Monday to be here, and we will complete your

24     evidence on Monday so that you'll be free then to leave.  Thank you very

25     much.

Page 2979

 1             We now adjourn.

 2                           --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.47 p.m.,

 3                           to be reconvened on Monday, the 30th day

 4                           of March, 2009, at 2.15 p.m.