1 Wednesday, 1 April 2009
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 --- Upon commencing at 2.19 p.m.
5 JUDGE PARKER: Good afternoon.
6 I understand, Mr. Djurdjic, that there may be a matter you want
7 to raise.
8 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. I would
9 seek some clarification and it significantly affects the preparations of
10 the Defence and the efficacy of these proceedings. The Defence has
11 noted, especially in terms of the notification provided for the next
12 three witnesses, that the paragraphs that are specifically mentioned in
13 relation to the witnesses who are to be heard actually differ from those
14 stated in the 65 ter annexes of the pre-trial brief. In actual fact,
15 what is mentioned here are 1 through 5, and perhaps paragraphs 72, 75,
16 and 73, for instance. There aren't any others. Whereas in the pre-trial
17 brief, in the summary, there are other paragraphs that are referred to,
18 especially for Gerxhaliu and Sabit Kadriu, the next two witnesses. And
19 that has happened so far as well with crime-base witnesses.
20 The preparations considerably differ and the duration of the
21 cross itself if we restrict ourselves only to the crime-based paragraphs.
22 If we have to deal with the historical context and the political part,
23 say 85, 84, up to 90, then the way in which we have to prepare and
24 conduct our cross becomes completely different.
25 I would appreciate it if the OTP could explain whether these are
1 mere omissions or are they actually revising or redacting their pre-trial
2 brief. So what we received by way of notification is different. Let me
3 be specific on that.
4 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.
5 Do I look to Ms. Nilsen?
6 MS. NILSEN: Yes, Your Honours. Thank you. When it comes to the
7 upcoming witness, Ms. Fedrije Xhafa, I'm not quite sure whether it is
8 like my learned colleague has stated now, that it is a discrepancy
9 between the 65 ter list and the notification that the Prosecution has
10 already provided counsel. In the 65 ter witness list, the -- described
11 paragraphs from the indictments are 72(m), 75(j), and 100 -- which is
12 exactly the same as in the notification to the Defence. So I am a little
13 unsure what he is referring to.
14 JUDGE PARKER: Perhaps you could help there, Mr. Djurdjic.
15 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. In the
16 pre-trial brief, precisely for this lady where the deviation is the
17 smallest as it were it is --
18 THE INTERPRETER: Could counsel please slow down when giving
19 numbers, reading out numbers.
20 JUDGE PARKER: I think, Mr. Djurdjic, you've got ahead of the
22 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I do apologise. I'll take
23 it slowly.
24 JUDGE PARKER: Whenever we get excited we get fast. We need to
25 slow down.
1 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I forget that there is
2 interpretation of what I am saying. For Ms. Fedrije Xhafa, in the
3 pre-trial brief the following paragraphs are mentioned 25 to 32, 72(m),
4 72(l), and 100. We received notification for 72(m), 75, and 77
5 respectively. However, let me tell you, it's not really that important
6 for her --
7 THE INTERPRETER: Again counsel is giving numbers too fast.
8 JUDGE PARKER: Just --
9 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's note: Could we kindly ask
10 Mr. Djurdjic to read out the numbers at a regular pace. Thank you.
11 JUDGE PARKER: One of the biggest problems seems to be when
12 you're reading numbers, you slip through them very quickly.
13 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I'm reading the notification for
14 Dr. Shukri Gerxhaliu. We received on the 30th or on the 29th, I don't
15 know exactly, the paragraphs were the following: 72(m), 75(i), and 77.
16 In the pre-trial brief the references are the following: 16, 23
17 through 32, 72(m), 73, 75(j), 77, and 100.
18 In relation to the next witness, and I don't have him over here
19 right now, there are again significant differences between the
20 notification and what is mentioned in the 65 ter pre-trial brief.
21 I would just like to tell you the following: If it only has to
22 do with the crime base, then my cross is much shorter and faster, of
23 course and more effective and efficient; but if we prepare in line with
24 the pre-trial brief, then it takes longer for the historical, political
25 context and the first part that has to do with joint criminal enterprise,
1 or rather -- rather, paragraphs from 28 to 32. That is why I don't
3 If the OTP is reducing these witnesses that they're calling now
4 only to the crime base, if they are changing the summary of the pre-trial
5 brief, then could we please be told as much and then we are going to
6 prepare in line with that and then we'll be faster and more efficient.
7 Let us know what the subject of the testimony is. Oh, I see, I am sorry,
8 Mr. Stamp has arrived. Yes. I see that now, so he will be able ...
9 JUDGE PARKER: Ms. Nilsen or Mr. Stamp? We will -- whoever would
10 like to have the microphone.
11 MR. STAMP: Your Honours, I really wish to be economical on time,
12 and I'm afraid that I do not follow fully what the complaint is. It
13 seems to me --
14 JUDGE PARKER: The complaint is that in the pre-trial brief you
15 have given references to a number of paragraphs or passages in the
16 indictment to which the witness is said by the Prosecution to be
18 MR. STAMP: Yes.
19 JUDGE PARKER: In the witness notifications that have been given
20 in the last week or two, two weeks ahead of the witness coming, the
21 references to the indictment, in some cases at least, are much shorter
22 and do not include some of the references that were originally given.
23 Now, the Defence, not unreasonably, wants to know is this a conscious and
24 deliberate narrowing of the scope of the evidence of the witness so that
25 the Prosecution will not rely on this witness in the case in respect of
1 the wider range of references to the indictment originally suggested? Or
2 is it that for some other reason you simply shortened the references to
3 the indictment? Is this something you're able to deal with at this
4 moment or not?
5 MR. STAMP: I was about to indicate that I would prefer to deal
6 with it at the next break. I can say in respect to the next witness, the
7 notification in the filed summaries, 65 ter summaries, is the governing
8 notification even if -- and I'm not sure if it applies to this witness,
9 even if in that case, the case of the next, upcoming witness, the filed
10 notification of two days ago refers only to the crime base. The
11 governing notification is the 65 ter unless a formal application to amend
12 is made.
13 JUDGE PARKER: Now, you're going to have to help me understand
14 what you're saying there.
15 MR. STAMP: Yeah.
16 JUDGE PARKER: Are you saying that you are going to rely on this
17 witness, the next one --
18 MR. STAMP: The next --
19 JUDGE PARKER: -- only for crime base?
20 MR. STAMP: No, no, Your Honour.
21 JUDGE PARKER: You're saying that the original wider notification
22 is the one that you want to provide?
23 MR. STAMP: I assume it is wider, that is why I am so vague
24 because I have not been able to look at the 65 ter. Perhaps if I am told
25 these things that these matters will be raised before, I could look at it
1 and provide precise answers. Assuming that counsel is right and that the
2 65 ter filed formally is wider than the wider -- 65 ter that was formally
3 filed governs the situation.
4 JUDGE PARKER: Now, can we ask that you will look at the other
5 witnesses and be in a position to let Mr. Djurdjic know promptly in the
6 course of today --
7 MR. STAMP: By the next break.
8 JUDGE PARKER: -- the position in respect to the coming
10 MR. STAMP: Yes, Your Honours. Thank you.
11 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.
12 For the next witness, Mr. Djurdjic, you need to assume that it's
13 the wider reference, and Mr. Stamp will speak to you when he's had a
14 chance to check for the further witnesses.
15 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. There's
16 just something I wished to say in relation to this other witness, after
17 the one ho is supposed to be heard now. He starts to testify from 1800
18 something until 1998. The Defence wanted to deal with 1800 something in
19 a different way and to start only from 1998 to admit into evidence his
20 statement only starting with 1998. If we start with the 1800s, as
21 Dr. Sabit Kadriu says, I think that this is really going to last a long
22 time. Thank you.
23 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Stamp, are you able to speak about the witness
24 of -- Dr. Kadriu and whether you really are relying on his evidence going
25 back to the century before last?
1 MR. STAMP: Your Honours, these are matters of background. You
2 know, I think that aspect of the testimony --
3 JUDGE PARKER: We'll have the first battle of Sarajevo shortly
4 introduced into the case, which is 1300 and I think 89 or something like
5 that. I don't think it's going to be of a great deal of use to the
6 Trial Chamber.
7 MR. STAMP: Yes, Your Honour. Can I -- this is not the next
8 witness, this is one of -- it's the next one for tomorrow.
9 JUDGE PARKER: Well, we might get through two or three witnesses
10 a day if we're dealing with crime base, you see.
11 MR. STAMP: Indeed, indeed. But there is some background
12 information which I think is brief, but it is probably necessary for
13 complete understanding of some of the allegations.
14 JUDGE PARKER: Well, you'll look into that as well as the other
15 forthcoming witnesses and inform Mr. Djurdjic during the next break.
16 MR. STAMP: Yes, Your Honour.
17 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you then.
18 Perhaps we could have the next witness.
19 [Trial Chamber confers]
20 [The witness entered court]
21 JUDGE PARKER: Good afternoon.
22 THE WITNESS: Good afternoon. [Interpretation] Good afternoon.
23 JUDGE PARKER: Would you please read aloud the affirmation on the
24 card that is given to you now.
25 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will
1 speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
2 WITNESS: FEDRIJE XHAFA
3 [Witness answered through interpreter]
4 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you very much. Please sit down.
5 Ms. Nilsen has some questions for you.
6 MS. NILSEN: Thank you, Your Honours. Before I start questioning
7 the witness, I am seeking to make use of a map that has not been yet
8 admitted into evidence, and I would ask your permission to use this today
9 and add it into our 65 ter exhibit list. I can indicate the map has
10 65 ter number 05244 and this map was disclosed to the Defence counsel
11 last week. I have also consulted my learned friend, and he hasn't
12 opposed against it. And this map is quite detailed and I guess it would
13 be to our benefit.
14 JUDGE PARKER: Very well.
15 Examination by Ms. Nilsen:
16 Q. Ms. Xhafa, could you please state your full name and birth date.
17 A. My name is Fedrije Xhafa. I was born in 1964.
18 Q. And where are you from originally?
19 A. I was born in the village of Bari
20 now I live in the village of Maze
21 Q. This village, Maze e Ulet, did it have another name before the
23 A. Yes, it was called Saracak i Ulet.
24 Q. If it's fine with you, Ms. Xhafa, we will use this name further
25 on in this testimony just to make it easier according to the map so far.
1 I would like you to tell the Court what kind of occupation you
2 had before the war in 1999.
3 A. Before the war for a short time I worked as a dress-maker. I
4 finished a course in dress-making. After the war, in 2000, I got an
5 employment with the police academy in Vushtrri.
6 Q. Thank you. I will go back to your village in Vushtrri. Where
7 there other ethnic groups in this village than Kosovo Albanians when you
8 lived there back in -- before the war in 1999?
9 A. Yes, there were. There were several Serbian households.
10 Q. And how many households approximately would you say was there
11 before the war?
12 A. About ten I would say, not more than that.
13 Q. Ten households all together in this village?
14 A. Yes, but I'm not quite sure. This is what I think the number
16 Q. Ms. Xhafa, did you testify at Milutinovic et al. trial on the
17 25th and the 28th of August, 2006?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And right before you testified, did you also, on the
20 25th of August, 2006, give your last statement to the
21 Office of the Prosecution of this Tribunal; is that correct?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Thank you. Have you had a chance to read through your statement
24 as well as your testimony from that trial previously before you came to
25 witness -- to court today?
1 A. Are you referring to the last statement?
2 Q. I'm referring to both the statement that you gave back in 2006
3 and also the transcript from the testimony that you gave in the
4 Milutinovic et al. case. Did you have a chance to read through those?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And as I understand there are a couple of things that you would
7 like to amend from this statement or clarify.
8 MS. NILSEN: If we could have up the 65 ter number 02274. That
9 will be the statement of 25th of August, and if we can both have the
10 Albanian and the English version. If we could put up page 2, and on
11 paragraph 5, just zoom in that. I have also a hard copy with me for the
12 witness if it's difficult for her to read. Yes.
13 Q. In line 5 it reads:
14 "Around 9.00 p.m.
15 I understand that you want to amend this information of how many
16 there were; is that correct, Ms. Xhafa? Can you see the statements on
17 the screen? You're on paragraph 5, line 5.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Did you have any changes regarding to how many Serb policemen who
21 A. I believe I said when I gave my statement that a large group of
22 policemen came. We saw a large number of policemen that came on the
24 Q. Fine. So instead of being specific with four policemen, you
25 would change it to a large group of policemen arrived; is that correct?
1 A. Correct.
2 Q. And then if we could stay on the same -- thank you so much.
3 MS. NILSEN: And then if we could stay with the same
4 65 ter number and move on to page 3, please.
5 Q. On the same paragraph but line 9 this time which reads:
6 "The paramilitaries shouted at the tractor drivers to clear the
7 road to allow their armed vehicles to pass."
8 Is there something here that you would like to amend as well,
9 Ms. Xhafa?
10 A. Yes. I talk about the paramilitaries here. I called
11 paramilitaries those who wore Balaclavas and gloves at the time, but I
12 know now that they were policemen. They -- all of them had the same
13 uniform, blue uniform. I wanted to call them policemen in my statement.
14 Q. Could you just please try to explain the reason why you then --
15 back then said it was the paramilitaries?
16 A. At the time, I thought that those who wore Balaclavas and gloves
17 were paramilitaries. Now that I work in a police academy, I can tell
18 what the police uniform is and looks like those at the time who were
19 wearing Balaclavas and gloves wore the same police uniform, the blue
20 police uniform.
21 Q. Thank you so much. And the last thing I have noted is on e-court
22 page 4, paragraph 9, where your 13th sentence reads:
23 "After a while, the Serbs returned ..."
24 Is there something that you would like to clarify regarding this
25 matter as well? There is a sentence in the end of paragraph 9. Maybe
1 it's difficult for you to read, but initially it says:
2 "After a while, the Serbs returned ..."
3 Is there anything that you would like to amend or clarify
4 regarding this?
5 A. Just a moment, please.
6 Q. Yes. If you cannot read it, Ms. Xhafa, maybe you can anyway tell
7 me is there any changes now when I'm reading it for you so that you can
8 orally tell me if there is anything that you have -- that you want to
9 clarify from the sentence:
10 "After a while, the Serbs returned."
11 Do you have something more you want or additional information who
13 A. After a while, the Serb forces returned.
14 Q. And what do you mean with the "Serb forces"? Do you have any
15 specific units that you're referring to, military, police or --
16 A. There were both police and military.
17 Q. And did they drive in any vehicles, do you remember? If you
18 don't remember, we can come back to it later.
19 A. [In English] Okay.
20 Q. Fine. Thank you, except from the last thing that you were a
21 little bit unsure of -- with this correction now made?
22 A. [Interpretation] I don't know to which incident you're
23 referring, that's why I cannot clarify. Can you please tell me which
24 incident you're referring to?
25 Q. I propose that we make that clarification later when we have
1 explained the evidence so that you can see everything in -- what happened
2 or recall happening. Anyway, with those corrections that you have made
3 so far, does your statement and your transcript from the
4 Milutinovic et al. statement or trial, sorry, reflect your evidence and
5 would you testify to the same fact today?
6 A. Yes.
7 MS. NILSEN: Your Honours, I would like to seek to tender the
8 65 ter 05144 and 65 ter number 02274, which is respectively the
9 transcript of Ms. Xhafa's testimony in the Milutinovic et al. case and
10 witness statement from 25th of August, 2006. Thank you.
11 JUDGE PARKER: First the transcript will be received.
12 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit P509, Your Honours.
13 JUDGE PARKER: Secondly, the statement.
14 THE REGISTRAR: That will be --
15 JUDGE PARKER: -- the 25th of August, 2006.
16 THE REGISTRAR: -- that will be Exhibit P510, Your Honours.
17 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.
18 MS. NILSEN: Thank you.
19 I would now like to provide a brief summary, Your Honours, of
20 Ms. Xhafa's evidence.
21 The witness describes the events leading to the convoy massacre
22 in Studime i Eperme or Gornja Sudimlja, the 2nd of May, 1999. The
23 witness has explained that after the NATO bombing began,
24 the 24th of March, 1999, Serb forces started to burn the houses in the
25 village where she and her family lived. This -- the name of this village
1 was back then Saracak i Ulet in Albanian and Donji Svracak in Serbian.
2 The witness's family and herself was therefore forced to leave their
3 home, and they first went to the village Dumnica and then to Samodreza.
4 They were here told by the KLA forces that the Serb forces were
5 approaching and from Samodreza the witness and her family had to flee
6 together and they went to Vesekoc where they spent five weeks. After
7 this, they moved further to Sllakovc, where they spent two nights. They
8 were here informed by the KLA again that the Serb forces were advancing
9 from the north. After this, the witness and her family joined a large
10 convoy of people moving towards Vushtrri in the municipality of Vushtrri
11 The witness has stated that she road a tractor together with her
12 13 member of family, and she has also stated how the Serb forces attacked
13 her family several times in this convoy how her brother was shot and her
14 father was shot and killed.
15 The witness has also explained how her family continued on foot
16 from Studime, where this happened, to the outskirts of Vushtrri, the
17 town. And here they were directed into an agricultural co-operative
18 building where the men, aged between 15 and 60 years, were separated from
19 the rest, and how these men had to go to a prison in Smrekovnica.
20 The witness has told how she and the rest of her family were sent
21 to the village of Kicic
22 where the remainder of men were caught by the police and sent to the same
23 prison in Smrekovnica. She has also described how she and all the other
24 women had to go back to Vushtrri and obtain a written allowance from the
25 Serb police to be able to stay in Dobra Luka.
1 And this is the end of the witness summary.
2 Q. Ms. Xhafa, in your statement you have described that you and your
3 family left your home because Serb forces had begun to burn the houses in
4 your village. Could you please explain to us which date that you left
5 and to where you went first.
6 A. It was the 28th of March, 1999, when they started to burn the
7 houses in Saracak i Eperme. The population of the village began to
8 leave. We joined the convoy, and from our village we went to
9 Dumnice village. There we spent one night. And from there we proceeded
10 to Samadrexha --
11 Q. If I can stop you there, please, for a moment. When you left the
12 28th of March, you said that the Serb forces began to burn houses, but
13 did you actually see this for yourself? Did you see these houses being
15 A. Yes, one could see the flames coming out of the houses in
16 Saracak i Eperme and the neighbours, those who lived close to the houses
17 that were set on fire, also told me this. We all left the village and my
18 family and I joined the convoy.
19 Q. Were you at any time able to see or describe the people who you
20 saw or who were doing this, who set fire on these houses?
21 A. They were very far. We could not see them in the act of setting
22 the houses on fire. We only saw the flames.
23 Q. All right. And then you went to Dumnica, where you spent one
24 night, and then to Samodreza you have told. How many nights did you
25 spend in Samodreza before you went further?
1 A. In Samadrexha I remained only for a short while. We were
2 informed that the Serb forces were coming in the direction of Samadrexha,
3 and that's why we had to proceed to Vesekoc.
4 Q. So with a short while, you mean that you didn't stay over any
5 nights there in Samodreza?
6 A. Half an hour, not more than that.
7 Q. All right. And then you approached to Vesekoc, where you stayed
8 five weeks. Why did you leave Vesekoc after five weeks?
9 A. We left Vesekoc on the 30th of April because we were informed
10 that the police forces were advancing in two directions, that the front
11 line was broken --
12 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreter didn't get the name of the
13 village where the front line was broken.
14 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] -- the forces, the Serb forces,
15 were shelling, and the order was given to us to leave the area.
16 MS. NILSEN:
17 Q. In which town did you say you were informed that the forces were
18 broken and therefore had to leave?
19 A. In Melenice village.
20 Q. And this is in Mitrovica, right?
21 A. It belongs to the Shala area, this village.
22 Q. Fine. When you were in Vesekoc, were you aware of whether any
23 Serb forces had taken up positions in the area around; and in that case,
25 A. I don't know where the Serb forces had taken up positions, but
1 someone informed my family and the others that were there, the civilians,
2 and told us to withdraw from that area because the Serb forces were
3 advancing in our direction.
4 Q. Thank you. And then after you had spent approximately five weeks
5 in Vesekoc, you went to Sllakovc. How many days or nights did you spend
7 A. We stayed for two days in Sllakovc.
8 Q. And why did you decide to leave from here after two days?
9 A. For the same reason. We again heard that the Serb forces were
10 advancing in the direction of the area where the civilians where, in
11 Sllakovc village, and therefore we decided to join the convoy and head
12 towards Vushtrri.
13 Q. And which date are we talking about now when you decided to join
14 the convoy and left Sllakovc?
15 A. 2nd of May, 1999. It was about 1.00 p.m.
16 Q. Were you told by anyone to join this convoy?
17 A. People decided to form this convoy. There was nowhere for us to
18 go. We were surrounded from all sides. The only way out, we thought,
19 was road to Studime continuing towards Vushtrri.
20 Q. And how many people would you estimate were in this convoy?
21 A. It was a very long convoy. I cannot give you the accurate number
22 of people, but I would say there were about 50.000 people in the convoy.
23 Q. And which ethnicity did these people, this approximately 50.000
24 people, belong to?
25 A. We were all Albanians, civilians.
1 Q. Thank you. We are now at the 2nd of May. You have left Sllakovc
2 and joined the convoy towards Vushtrri. Could you please explain to the
3 Court what happened to your family this day.
4 A. On this day, we were ordered to stop between the two Studime
5 villages, Studime i Eperme and Studime i Ulet. We stopped there. We sat
6 in a field in Studime area. We were told that we could not continue to
7 Vushtrri in the afternoon because of the curfew. They said that it was
8 impossible to continue to Vushtrri after 4.00 p.m. because of the curfew.
9 We stayed in this field until 9.00 p.m.; at around that time, the police
10 forces came. They fired gun-shots in the air. They ordered the drivers
11 to get on the tractors and make way for their forces.
12 Q. We know from your statement, Ms. Xhafa, that during this day you
13 were approached several times, your family, by Serb forces. Could you
14 explain this further, please.
15 A. Yes. My elder brother Fazli and Mirsad started to walk, whereas
16 we, the others, went to fetch the tractor and continue on the tractor.
17 When we arrived there after a short while, a group of policemen came. My
18 brother Jetish and my brother's son Ismet were on the tractor. The
19 policemen came there and asked for identification document. They began
20 to beat Ismet and they asked for money. My brother Jetish gave them
21 200 Deutschemarks.
22 Q. Did they explain to you why they wanted money before they
23 released him? Did they accuse him for anything?
24 A. Yes. They said, Give us money or else we will kill Ismet. We
25 gave them what we had, 200 Deutschemarks. They released Ismet. He left
1 the tractor and came to the trailer where we were. We covered him with
2 mattresses. After some time, I don't know when exactly, but another
3 group of policemen came, four policemen, one of them was --
4 Q. If I could stop you there for a moment, sorry, Ms. Xhafa. Just
5 before you go ahead to the second group, you have described that these
6 people were policemen. But could you describe them a little bit further.
7 Could you give a more detailed description of how they looked, where they
8 were, and what they looked like.
9 A. They had blue camouflage uniform.
10 Q. And is it on this basis that you were sure that they were
11 policemen or what?
12 A. They also had weapons on them.
13 Q. They also had weapons. Could you see the weapons, which kind of
14 weapons they were wearing?
15 A. I don't remember what kind of weapons they had, but they did have
17 Q. Did they have any vehicles they were driving?
18 A. No, this group didn't. This group was on foot.
19 Q. All right. And after Ismet was released and you had -- and your
20 brother had paid them 200 Deutschemarks, did you do anything with Ismet
21 after this event to prevent anything like that should happen again or --
22 explain that.
23 A. Yes. We placed Ismet on the trailer, covered him with
24 mattresses. We sat around him so he couldn't be seen. He was covered in
25 the trailer.
1 Q. Thank you. And before I interrupted you, you were about to
2 explain to us about the second group. Can you please go on. Thank you.
3 A. The second group came, a group of four or more policemen that
4 were nearby. Perhaps there were more in the vicinity, but four policemen
5 came to the place where we were. He started to beat him with a thick
6 wooden stick on both his shoulders. My father begged them to release
7 him. They spoke in Serbian. My father came back and told us that they
8 again asked for money, otherwise they were going to kill Jetish. We
9 didn't have money. At that stage, my sister-in-law Hamide gave them all
10 her golden jewellery.
11 Q. Could you please describe this person that you said was beating
12 Jetish with this wooden stick.
13 A. They were all dressed in blue camouflage uniforms with the
14 exception of the person who was beating Jetish. He also wore a blue
15 camouflage uniforms but he had a flak jacket, a green camouflage flak
17 Q. And did you -- do you remember anything else about this man, how
18 he looked, could you describe that in that case?
19 A. I remember him. He was tall. He was -- he had this wooden stick
20 in his hands. He was blond.
21 Q. Thank you. After this group of policemen had left, were you
22 approached by several or another group after this?
23 A. Yes. After the first left, those who beat up Jetish, we were
24 discussing whether to leave the tractor and walk on foot or to take the
25 tractor. I don't know how long that lasted. Then another group came.
1 It was a group of six policemen.
2 Q. And now we are talking about this third group; is that correct?
3 A. Yes, this is the third group. Two of them were wearing masks.
4 The four came near to the trailer and directed his arm to my mother.
5 Then they put the weapon to Jetish's head and then they fired.
6 Q. Did they ask for any money in advance before they did this?
7 A. No, they didn't. This group didn't ask for any money. They
8 simply shot Jetish. Then my father knew that it was dangerous. He went
9 near them, said something to them, they didn't retort back. After they
10 fired their weapon, I went to my father and wanted to make him come out
11 of the trailer. He spoke something in Serbian. I don't know what he
12 said. They came back and took my father with them, and then we heard the
13 shots because I turned my head on the other side. Couldn't look at it.
14 I heard a cry from my father. He simply cried, and then when I looked I
15 saw that both of them were shot.
16 Q. And what was the consequence of this shooting Jetish, did he
17 survive or did he die?
18 A. We thought that Jetish was dead, but he is still alive to this
19 day. He escaped death.
20 Q. But you didn't know these things back then, did you?
21 A. No. At that moment we didn't think that he was alive because he
22 was fired at in the head, but he's still alive. But we heard of that
23 only after a few days. We got the news that he was still alive.
24 Q. And what about your father?
25 A. My father died.
1 Q. And after both your brother and father was shot, what did your
2 family do next?
3 A. They ordered us to leave that place, those policemen that were
4 round the trailer. Ismet was the oldest of the males, but we were afraid
5 they would shoot him so it was Lavdim who was 13 years old, my brother's
6 son, and I asked him to drive the tractor. But he was very scared, and
7 he didn't know how to drive the tractor.
8 A policeman came by, came close, and he beat him with the butt of
9 his gun, ordering him to drive on. Another policeman who was close by
10 said to him in Albanian -- started to teach him in Albanian how to drive
11 the tractor, and then he started using the first gear. We drove for some
12 100 metres or so.
13 Q. What would you estimate the time to be approximately now,
14 Ms. Xhafa, when you stopped the tractor?
15 A. I think it must have been 11.00 --
16 Q. In the evening --
17 A. -- I am not sure -- at night. I can't be precise.
18 Q. And we know that -- from your statement, that you eventually
19 decided to send Ismet away to inform KLA about the events. Could you
20 please tell the Court about this.
21 A. Yes. At that moment we decided to quit the tractor and to
22 continue on foot. All of us descended from the tractor. Ismet was with
23 us and then we went on walking, trying to hide behind tractors, until we
24 joined a group of people. The crowd was at the entrance of
25 Studime i Ulet. We joined these people, as I said. On the way until we
1 reached this group of people, we passed over dead bodies. We saw also my
2 cousin Veli Xhafa. We saw he was killed on the tractor. Then we passed
3 by some other corpses, all people lying on the floor.
4 We saw a young guy who was injured and he was asking for help but
5 we were scared to go and administer some help to him. Then on the way we
6 saw a very young boy. I don't know whether he came from a tractor or so
7 that he wanted to join us; but at that moment he was shot by the police,
8 and I saw that he was frozen in a way let's say there. We couldn't turn
9 our heads and look what happened, but I saw that he was there.
10 Then we joined the crowd of people. There were no police there
11 and all the members of my family agreed that Ismet go and join the KLA.
12 Two other people joined Ismet and together they crossed the street and
13 went in the direction of a mountain.
14 Q. And after you had sent Ismet away to inform the KLA units, did
15 any other group of Serb forces approach you after this on your way to
17 A. Yes, after a while they came by a military vehicle, I don't know,
18 combat vehicle I think. And then they stopped by and ordered us to stay
19 there until they ordered us to go towards Vushtrri. During that time,
20 they pushed us. They wanted us to shout, to hail, Slobo Draza KLA,
21 during the time we were there, staying on that field.
22 Q. And what would this mean, Slobo Draza?
23 A. Slobo meant Slobodan Milosevic at that time.
24 Q. And Draza?
25 A. Draza I think was the name of a former Serb gang that fought in
1 the past. This is what Draza and his gang did. I think that was a name
2 that they ordered us to shout out loud.
3 Q. And did you do this, did you shout out loud?
4 A. Yes, some people did because they were afraid of being shot at by
5 the police. They shouted Slobo's and Draza's name. When they ordered
6 them to shout KLA, they didn't.
7 Q. Thank you. Did you continue your way to Vushtrri by tractor?
8 A. No, we were walking. We joined that group of people, and then we
9 were ordered to leave for Vushtrri. They ordered us to walk on the edge
10 of the road, and this is what we did until we arrived in Vushtrri. Then
11 they ordered us to go to the courtyard of an agricultural co-operative
12 there. This is where we stayed that night. It was 2.00 in the morning
13 when we arrived there --
14 Q. Let me stop you a moment there. So you had to leave your tractor
15 with all your belongings behind; is that correct?
16 A. Yes, that's correct.
17 Q. And -- excuse me, then you came to this co-operative or
18 agricultural co-operative building at night. What was the situation
19 there like when you arrived? Could you just describe that briefly.
20 A. Yes, it was a very large group of people there. There were
21 elderly people, children, maybe also some injured. We could hear moans,
22 cries, people shouting, some were thirsty. It was like a horror night
23 for me. We stayed there until the next day.
24 Q. And what happened the next day, the next morning?
25 A. On the next morning a group of policemen came there, and they
1 started to separate the males from their families.
2 Q. And -- sorry, they separated the males from the families and the
3 age you were told was between 15 and 60; is that correct?
4 A. Yes, that's correct. Yes, all the males aged 15 to 60, they were
5 set aside on the other side of the courtyard. They came also to my
6 family and started to take Mirsad , Jetish's son; my brother Fazli; Sami;
7 uncle Muharrem.
8 Q. And did they all have to go to the prison there and then?
9 A. No. During that time when they were being separated, my uncle
10 Muharrem saw our neighbour dressed in uniform. We lived in the same
11 village, Biba. He came by and my uncle said to him what happened to us
12 in Studime. He helped us, so he saved the males of my family from being
13 sent to prison.
14 Q. And this prison, I understand it's -- it was located in
15 Smrekovnica. Where did you learn those men had to go there? Did anyone
16 tell you that the men had to go to prison in Smrekovnica?
17 A. When they were separating the males and tell -- asking them to
18 get on the trucks, there was a truck there. And after a while, the truck
19 came back to get another load of men. So we heard someone said that all
20 these men are being taken to Smrekonica prison.
21 Q. Thank you. And what happened to you and your family after your
22 uncle, Muharrem, managed to get the men released? What did you do and
23 where did you go?
24 A. They ordered us. There was a policeman there, the one who gave
25 the orders. Someone in the group said that his name was Simic. He
1 ordered us to leave. Those who didn't have a tractor, he said, Go to --
2 back to Smrekonica or Doberlluka village. The others who had tractors
3 should continue their way and leave for Albania.
4 Q. This Simic, the name of this person, could you just describe him?
5 You said he was a Serb policeman, but what made you so sure about that?
6 A. He had the police uniform on, the green camouflage --
7 THE INTERPRETER: Correction.
8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] -- blue camouflage uniform. He was
9 rather stout with a moustache. This is what I recall of him.
10 MS. NILSEN:
11 Q. Did you hear anything from others who this person was, what
12 position he had, and his occupation?
13 A. I don't remember more than that about this man.
14 Q. But you were then sent to or you travelled to Kicic, where you
15 were accommodated. How long did you stay there with your family?
16 A. Kiciq is the name of the village.
17 Q. Sorry.
18 A. At that time, we did what we were ordered to. We chose this
19 Kiciq village. My mother was suffering from heart disease, so she got on
20 the tractor of her brother and she left for Albania, whereas we went back
21 to Kiciq, went to an empty house where we stayed from the 3rd of March to
22 the 7th of March in that house, after which time the family that owned
23 that house returned and asked us to free it. So we went to Doberlluka
24 village, where we stayed until the end of the war.
25 Q. In your statement you have explained about the unit who came to
1 your house in Dobra Luka. Can you please explain to the Court what
2 actually happened when they came.
3 A. Yes, it was the morning of, I think, the 15th or 16th of May.
4 They ordered us to come out. Again, they took away the males and ordered
5 us to go to Smrekonica, to a health clinic to get a sort of card. It was
6 I think a kind of certificate on which it was written name, last name,
7 date of birth, place of residence, and where we were staying.
8 Q. And where did you have to go to obtain this certificate?
9 A. Smrekonica. It was what we say -- we call it a health house word
10 for word.
11 Q. And what happened to the men in your family?
12 A. They were taken away. They were ordered to bring out of their
13 pockets all the money they had on them, and then they were sent to
14 prison. After a while, they released Uncle Muharrem, whereas the others
15 they kept in jail. And after two weeks, they were sent to Albania
16 Q. Thank you. Did you get any information of the reason why you had
17 to go and register and to obtain this certificate? Did you get any
18 reason for it?
19 A. I don't know. That was the order given to us, but I don't know
20 the reason why.
21 MS. NILSEN: If I could please ask the usher to put up 65 ter --
22 or it's a P number now. The previous 65 ter number 02274, the witness
23 statement. I apologise, I don't have the P number, 509. Thank you. And
24 it will be page 8 and 9. If we can get both pages up at the same time.
25 If we could please have this zoomed in as much as possible, especially
1 the -- yes, the page 8. The page that we see on the left, usher, would
2 that be number 9, it should be a -- yeah, thank you. This should be an
3 English translation of this certificate and not the Albanian translation.
4 Thank you. Is it possible to have the English translation on one page
5 and the Albanian version where we have the text on the other side? Sorry
6 if I was vague to this. So I don't need the Albanian version of the page
7 where there is no text. Yes. Thank you. Perfect. If you can just zoom
8 out -- zoom in this text page.
9 Q. Ms. Xhafa, do you recognise the document to the left here?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Are you able to describe what this is?
12 A. This is a kind of certificate on notification of the place we
13 were staying and then other data, name, last name, date of birth.
14 Q. Was this a certificate that was issued to you or similar?
15 A. No. I have brought the certificate of my niece, my brother's
16 sister. I have a similar one here. If you need, I can show you my
17 personal one.
18 Q. Well, would your personal certificate look exactly like this one
19 except for the names and the birth dates and other information, personal
21 A. It is identical, only it contains my personal data.
22 Q. Thank you. And the name of this, is the -- can you just tell us
23 what the name of your niece which is described here according to you.
24 A. Fetije Xhafa.
25 Q. Are you able, Ms. Xhafa, to see what is written on the stamp? I
1 know it's pretty vague, but I don't know if we can zoom it any more than
2 this. The other side. The stamp at -- yes. Thank you.
3 A. Yes. It says: "Republic of Serbia
4 Q. And who issued this registration card for you? Who did you
5 obtain it from?
6 A. There were some people who worked in that office. There were
7 three offices that issued such cards. My card was signed by
8 Snjezana Bogunovic, a neighbour of ours, but the order was given to us by
9 the police to go and obtain such certificate.
10 Q. And the information that we have on the card --
11 MS. NILSEN: If we can just zoom out again.
12 Q. Can you just briefly explain to us what it says. We have a
13 translated version, but just for the record so that you can tell us.
14 First of all, I would like you to tell us the date of the card if that is
16 A. First is the name and the last name, Fetije Xhafa, then the date
17 of birth, 15th-9-78, then I think it's the name of the place where we
18 lived before, in Svracak, then the commune or municipality, Vucitrn.
19 Then it reads: Republic of Serbia
20 we were staying, and it's a signature and the date that this certificate
21 was issued.
22 Q. And the date would be?
23 A. 16th May, 1999
24 Q. Ms. Xhafa, you have told us about your observations when your
25 father was shot and killed and how your brother also was shot. You have
1 also told us that you passed other bodies on your way to Vushtrri in the
2 convoy. Did you see anyone else being killed or shot during this period
3 you have told us about, either before or during or after you entered the
5 A. Yes. On the road from the place where we left our tractor and
6 where we joined the convoy, through this part of the journey we came
7 across many corpses. We saw an old man who had been killed, his horses
8 had been killed too, relative Veli was killed in a tractor, then a young
9 man was wounded and was asking for help. Then there was another young
10 man who wanted to join us but who was shot and we didn't dare look back
11 to see what happened to him. So we came across many corpses.
12 Q. But did you actually see any of these executions or it was
13 afterwards that you saw them they were wounded or dead?
14 A. No, they had already been killed, with the exception of this
15 young boy who wanted to join us. He was alive. We only heard the
16 gun-shot, but we didn't look back to see what happened to him.
17 Q. Except from your cousin, I believe it was, who were killed on the
18 tractor and your father, do you have -- are you able to mention any names
19 of the people who were killed who you mention you saw were dead?
20 A. During this part of the journey, I only knew Veli Xhafa, a
21 relative of mine who had been killed, not the others.
22 Q. Thank you. After the massacre in Studime, where you have
23 explained to us quite detailed, did you at any time ever see or recognise
24 any of the perpetrators again in a later stage?
25 A. The person who beat Jetish, I saw him again on the night of the
1 2nd of May at the entrance to Vushtrri. Then again, I saw him on the
2 15th of May when they came and ordered us to get these certificates that
3 I spoke about.
4 Q. Thank you. And the men in your family and the rest that you told
5 about who were imprisoned in Smrekovnica, when were these people
6 released, when were these men released from the prison; do you know that?
7 A. We didn't know then, but later we found out that they had been
8 released and sent to Albania
9 Q. Did they tell you how they were treated there in the prison?
10 A. They did tell us about what they had gone through. They told us
11 that there was hardly any place for them to sleep. They were tortured in
12 different ways.
13 Q. Thank you.
14 MS. NILSEN: Your Honours, I think it's time for us to take our
15 break now.
16 JUDGE PARKER: Do you propose to tender this certificate?
17 MS. NILSEN: I will, Your Honours. As it is already tendered as
18 a part of the statement in P509 --
19 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.
20 MS. NILSEN: -- I'm not going to ask to tender it again, this is
21 the last pages of it.
22 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.
23 MS. NILSEN: After the break, Your Honours, I would like the
24 witness to point out some specific villages on the map, and that will be
25 my last questions for her.
1 JUDGE PARKER: We will resume at quarter past 4.00.
2 --- Recess taken at 3.45 p.m.
3 --- On resuming at 4.18 p.m.
4 JUDGE PARKER: Yes, Ms. Nilsen.
5 MS. NILSEN: Thank you, Your Honours.
6 Q. I have a couple questions more before I go ahead with the map.
7 Ms. Xhafa, when you allegedly returned back to your home village
8 after the war ended, do you remember which date this was?
9 A. It was two weeks after Vushtrri was liberated. The NATO forces
10 entered Kosova on the 16th of June, so we returned to our house two weeks
11 later. Our house was burnt down, and we lived in another house nearby.
12 Q. Yes, that was the next question I was going to ask you, which
13 conditions the village was in when you returned. Was all the houses
14 burnt down?
15 A. All the houses were burnt down.
16 Q. And you said there were both Kosovo Albanians and other
17 ethnicities who lived in this village, or did I get you correct there?
18 A. You're right, yes.
19 Q. So the houses from the other ethnicities was also burnt when you
21 A. The Serb houses were not -- were not burnt down.
22 Q. Thank you.
23 MS. NILSEN: I see my learned friend is on his feet.
24 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Djurdjic.
25 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Right now there's no point in
1 objecting. In response to the question as to what the situation the
2 village was, the witness said all the houses were burned; and then the
3 next question stated: Serbian houses, Serb houses. I don't think that
4 was right, and the witness had given the answer that she had given.
5 JUDGE PARKER: But the point, Mr. Djurdjic, is that we are
6 seeking to learn the truthful evidence of the witness. Witnesses often
7 misunderstand questions and give answers that may not be correct, and
8 there has to be an opportunity to be sure with that witness that the
9 answer they've given is the correct one. The same is applied in many of
10 your questions. Now, it can be fully appreciated that there will be
11 times it will be important not to suggest in any way an answer to a
12 witness and to let the witness express themselves, but on a matter like
13 this, the answer was simply "yes." And the next question has shown that
14 the witness misunderstood the question, by understanding the question to
15 be limited to non-Serb houses.
16 Thank you, Ms. Nilsen.
17 MS. NILSEN: Thank you.
18 Q. And just one last question, Ms. Xhafa. You said that there were
19 ten households in this village of yours. Did you then refer -- did you
20 the refer to the Kosovo Albanian households or did you refer to all the
21 households together, included the Serbian households?
22 A. The village had both Albanian and Serbian households. The houses
23 that were near my house were Serbian. There were three Serbian houses
24 near my house. My village is quite big. The other Serb houses are
25 further from my house.
1 Q. Okay. Thank you. Maybe I didn't make myself clear. I just
2 referred to what I asked you in the very beginning of this testimony when
3 I asked you the number of houses in the village and you replied "ten."
4 Is this the correct total amount of houses in the village where you were
6 A. No, I was referring to the ten Serbian houses.
7 Q. And how many Kosovo Albanian houses would there be, Ms. Xhafa?
8 A. More than Serbian households. I think there were about
9 80 Albanian households at the time.
10 Q. Okay. Thank you so much.
11 MS. NILSEN: Then I would like the usher to put up the
12 65 ter number 05244 which is the Kosovo map of Vushtrri municipality.
13 And if you could please zoom in on the area to the east of Vushtrri town,
14 and which the town would be included also into this. Thank you. Are you
15 able to zoom in a little bit further? Thank you.
16 Q. Ms. Xhafa, I don't know if you can see this. It's small letters,
17 but I hope you are able to read it. What I would like you to do is
18 this -- as you see, this is the municipality of Vushtrri
19 MS. NILSEN: I would like first of all if she can have a pen,
20 please --
21 Q. Point out your place of origin, the village where you're from,
22 and draw a circle around it and put a number 1 next to it.
23 MS. NILSEN: If it's difficult for the witness to reach the
24 screen. I don't know.
25 THE WITNESS: [Marks]
1 MS. NILSEN:
2 Q. Thank you. This will be --
3 A. I think I made a mistake. I didn't see it very well. It should
4 be this one.
5 Q. That's fine. And that will be the village that was formerly
6 called Saracak i Ulet.
7 JUDGE PARKER: Perhaps the court officer can erase the first
9 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Saracak i Ulet, my village.
10 MS. NILSEN:
11 Q. Thank you.
12 JUDGE PARKER: Yes, Mr. Djurdjic.
13 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] No objections, Your Honour. I got
14 an excellent map, hard copy from the OTP, and this is precisely reflected
15 on that map. So I suggest that we give this to the witness. It will be
16 much easier for the witness to mark this and much easier than watching
17 this on our screens. I think it's going to be a lot more difficult if we
18 do it on the screens. You see this map, it's an excellent map; and I
19 think it would be much better for the Trial Chamber, a really good map.
20 JUDGE PARKER: I think it's what's called a military ordnance
21 map, good detail.
22 Ms. Nilsen, do you think use of the paper copy of the map would
23 be better?
24 MS. NILSEN: Yes, Your Honour. I don't know if it would be
25 better, but we can certainly use it if it's -- I dont' have -- the thing
1 is, I don't have a blank unannotated map left after I gave the last one
2 to my learned colleague. But I am also sure that the witness will be
3 able to draw this on the screen. So far so good, so I would suggest it's
4 up to Your Honours.
5 [Trial Chamber confers]
6 [Prosecution counsel confer]
7 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I do apologise, Your Honour, it's
8 the same map like the one that's on the screen.
9 [Trial Chamber and Registrar confer]
10 MS. NILSEN: Your Honours, if I can just ...
11 JUDGE PARKER: Carry on, Ms. Nilsen, with what you're doing. We
12 don't have spare paper copies of the map.
13 MS. NILSEN: Thank you.
14 JUDGE PARKER: It's a little unfortunate that what we have on the
15 screens is not as clear as the original, but carry on and --
16 MS. NILSEN: I agree with you.
17 JUDGE PARKER: -- and let us hope that the witness can pick up
18 the area sufficiently.
19 MS. NILSEN: I agree with you, it's unfortunate, but we will see
20 if we can do our best.
21 Q. Then I will ask you, Ms. Xhafa, if you could please draw a line
22 between Saracak i Ulet, or your home village, and Dumnica, where you
23 spent your first night after you fled from your home village. Just draw
24 a line between these two places and circle around Dumnica, like you did
25 with the first, and put a number 2 on Dumnica, please.
1 A. This is my village. We started our journey here. We passed
2 through Maxhuni neighbour, through Vijance [phoen], then passed through
3 the Dumnica road; and we spent a night somewhere here.
4 Q. In Dumnica. And then I would like you to point out Samodreza
5 village where you have told you went afterwards spent a short while, half
6 an hour or so before you went further. If you could draw another line
7 and put a number 3 around Samodreza.
8 A. The following day we continued our journey. We passed through
9 Dumnica e Eperme, through these hills, here and proceeded to Samadrexha.
10 Q. Thank you. And then I would like to go on with the next place
11 you have told us you fled to where you said you spent five weeks in
12 Vesekoc. If you also put a line from number 3 and up to here.
13 A. From Samadrexha we passed through Ceceli, Sllakovc. I cannot see
14 the road --
15 MS. NILSEN: If we can get the usher maybe to scroll down the map
16 a little bit just so that it's --
17 A. Just a moment, please.
18 Q. If you cannot see Vesekoc, it's fine. You can just leave it for
19 you and --
20 A. It cannot be seen.
21 Q. Then if you want to -- if you know the approximate area, you can
22 just put the ring around because you have told us that you went from
23 there to Sllakovc. Do you see Sllakovc?
24 A. [No interpretation]
25 Q. Could you draw a line up to Sllakovc and put a ring and number 5
2 A. I think I should put a 4.
3 Q. Sorry, yes, put a 4. Thank you.
4 A. [Marks]
5 Q. And this will be Sllakovc, right?
6 A. We passed Sllakovc, then another village, and then we arrived in
7 Vesekoc. But you cannot see Vesekoc on the map; it's further up.
8 Q. It's further up. Okay. So after you went from Vesekoc you went
9 to Sllakovc, and from there you joined the convoy that you have told us
10 about. Can you see Studime in this map?
11 A. Yes, you can see it.
12 Q. Can you draw a line to Studime and put a circle with a 5 around
14 A. After we joined the convoy, we followed a road that was close to
15 Ceceli, and from there we arrived at Studime e Eperme. And from there,
16 we continued our journey and stopped somewhere between the two Studimes,
17 the Upper and Lower Studime.
18 Q. You also told us that you were informed about a place where the
19 Serb forces had taken up positions. Could you see if you can find that.
20 It should be according to what you said in Saracak e Eperme. Are you
21 able to see that on the map? Maybe draw a circle around that, with a
22 letter A around that. If you don't see, that's fine.
23 A. They were, on the hills of Saracak e Eperme on the Studime side
24 and on the other side, they were in a neighbourhood, Llazoviq
25 neighbourhood, which is on the road.
1 Q. Thank you. Now, from Studime you have told us that you went to
2 the outskirts of Vushtrri. Could you please -- where you went to for one
3 night and then the men were separated from the rest, the women. Are you
4 able to just to draw a ring around approximately where this agricultural
5 co-operative centre were and put a number 7 around it, I believe it will
6 be number 7.
7 A. We continued our journey. The agricultural co-operative facility
8 is near Vushtrri.
9 Q. Thank you. And then if you could also draw a circle around the
10 place where this prison were placed in Smrekonica and put a number -- the
11 letter B there where you were told that the men were sent to.
12 A. [Marks]
13 Q. Thank you. And then you have told us that you went from the
14 agricultural co-operative centre to Kicic - I'm not very good at
15 pronouncing it - you went there and spent a couple of nights or some days
16 there. Could you please draw another line from Vushtrri to Kicic,
17 please, and just put a number 8 in that ring.
18 A. [Marks]
19 Q. Thank you. And the last line I want you to draw goes from Kicic
20 to Dobra Luka, where you told us you spent the rest of your time until
21 the war ended and you could return to your home town. Could you please
22 draw another line and circle around Dobra Luka and put a number 9 in it,
24 A. [Marks]
25 Q. Thank you. And the place where you told us that you had to go
1 and register when you stayed in Dobra Luka, that was in Smrekovnica; is
2 that correct?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. So the very same place as the prison was established also?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Thank you.
7 MS. NILSEN: Your Honour, I seek to tender this annotated map
8 into evidence.
9 JUDGE PARKER: Yes, it will be received.
10 MS. NILSEN: Thank you.
11 THE REGISTRAR: That will be Exhibit P511, Your Honours.
12 MS. NILSEN: Thank you, Your Honours. And I have no further
13 questions for the witness.
14 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you very much, Ms. Nilsen.
15 Mr. Djurdjic, do you have cross-examination?
16 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.
17 Cross-examination by Mr. Djurdjic:
18 Q. [Interpretation] My name is Veljko Djurdjic. I am a member of
19 the Defence team of the accused, Vlastimir Djordjevic. Together with me
20 today is Ms. Marie O'Leary, she is also a member of our team. And since
21 we do not speak the same language and interpretation is produced in a
22 variety of languages, I would like to ask you to wait for me to finish my
23 question and then give me your answer. First of all, if you do not
24 understand a question, please let me know and I will try to rephrase it.
25 Secondly, I would like you to answer only about the events that you
1 yourself were an eye-witness of, things that you have direct knowledge
2 of, and could you please indicate when your knowledge is not first-hand.
3 I would like to start with what you said today. And it appears
4 to me that there are some discrepancies between what you said today and
5 your previous statement, so I would like us to clear that up.
6 On two occasions you spoke about leaving the tractor. You said
7 that you -- when you left the tractor that you saw many bodies, including
8 the body of your relative in -- on the tractor. Since this is in the
9 transcript, could you please tell me if this is a description of the same
10 event but you only gave -- gave it twice; is that so?
11 A. It is the same event, and I have described it earlier.
12 Q. Thank you. In the statement that you gave in 2000 and 2001,
13 there is no mention of Veli Xhafa, your relative, or indeed of the other
14 persons that you saw as you headed towards Donja Sudimlja on foot. Could
15 you please explain to me, why is there this discrepancy?
16 A. It is impossible that I did not mention everything that occurred
17 that night. I have probably mentioned it in my statement of 2006.
18 Q. Ms. Fedrije, that's in paragraph 5 through 11, including this
19 statement, the consolidated statement that was given in 2006. It's not
20 there. Let me make this as precise as possible. This is not about the
21 first, second, and the third group of policemen and events that involved
22 you on the tractor; it's when you left the tractor and when you headed
23 towards Donja Sudimlja on foot.
24 A. Lower Studime, Studime e Ulet. I have already mentioned it in my
25 statement of 2006 when I spoke about the event involving my cousin, but I
1 saw that the name of my cousin was changed, Emin instead of Veli Xhafa.
2 But I think I made the correction. It was the person of Veli Xhafa, my
4 Q. Well, I can't find it now. Let us move on and then once we've
5 analysed it we'll be able to pin-point it. Now, you were shown the
6 certificate of residence. The date is the 16th of May, 1992. In this
7 certificate, is there anything that is not true?
8 A. I have given all my personal data in an accurate manner.
9 Q. Yes, well that's what I wanted you to say. Your personal details
10 are correct. The place where you had residence, Donji Svrakovci, you
11 were a resident of Donji Svrakovci; am I right?
12 A. The place where we lived, the place where we were staying at that
13 time, these were the data that we provided and -- as well as other data,
14 like the name, last name, date of birth, the municipality.
15 Q. Thank you. And you will agree with me that all the details are
16 correct, the details that you provided that are contained in the
18 A. My personal data are correct, the ones we saw earlier in that
19 certificate. All the details were accurate, were correct.
20 Q. Thank you. Mrs. Fedrije, could you please explain to me why you
21 had to leave the tractor on the road between Gornja and Donja Sudimlja.
22 A. All those people who -- that were on the tractors thought that it
23 was more dangerous to stay on the tractors; therefore, we all decided to
24 get off the tractors and continue to walk on foot and join the other
25 people. That's why we also left the tractor, our tractor, and walked on
1 trying to hide behind tractors on the way, because there were many empty
2 tractors on the way and everybody was walking.
3 Q. Ms. Fedrije, I think that you changed your statement in the
4 statements that you made before. The problem was that who would drive
5 the tractor and -- because your cousin was driving the tractor, he got
6 scared, and then you got off the tractor. And you didn't say that the
7 other people in the column had left their tractors, quite the contrary,
8 they went on on tractors and some of them even travelled as far as
10 A. I'm talking about the time we were in the column in Studime.
11 After my father was -- and my brother were shot, Ismet was in hiding. We
12 didn't dare ask Ismet to drive the tractor. That's why his son, Lavdim,
13 13 years old, started to drive because the police told us to leave the
14 place where the shooting occurred. Lavdim drove the tractor for some
15 100 metres I think. After that, we decided to get off the tractor and
16 walk on foot. This is what we did until we joined a group of people who
17 were somewhere at the entrance to Studime e Ulet.
18 Q. Thank you. In your evidence today you said that since you were
19 in the village of Veskovce
20 leave the village. What did you mean by that, surrounded from all sides?
21 A. When I was in Vesekovc we felt safe there because it was
22 protected by the KLA. But after that time, when we had to leave the
23 place, going to Velenice, we were informed that the defence line was
24 broken in that village, in Velenice, therefore the population had to flee
25 because the danger was coming near. We didn't want something bad to
1 happen to us. Therefore, the population had to return back to Sllakovc.
2 Q. Thank you. In paragraph 9 you added today the military, so not
3 only the police but the military too. You had not mentioned the military
4 before. Do you make a distinction, or rather, did you make a distinction
5 between the military and the police at that time?
6 A. Yes, I knew the people who were dressed in green uniform belonged
7 to the army, but at that time there were also people who were using
8 vehicles and they were also green vehicles, which I think belonged to the
10 Q. Thank you. Well, if you had seen such uniforms, would you have
11 said that you had actually seen the army, the military?
12 A. Yes, I would.
13 Q. Thank you.
14 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Now I would like us to get on our
15 screens Defence document D002-5250.
16 Q. Mrs. Fedrije, could you please mark the uniform that you saw on
17 the police officers.
18 A. It doesn't seem clear to me. Maybe you can make it a little bit
19 bigger and the colours would be clearer. This one here?
20 Q. Yes, yes. Please go ahead, and thank you. Since you mentioned
21 the army today, could you please mark the uniform that you saw them
23 A. I didn't pay any attention. I know that the colour was green,
24 but I'm not sure which camouflage colour is the one that I had in mind.
25 I know it was green, but I'm not sure which of them they were wearing
1 that night.
2 Q. Thank you. In paragraph 9 you made a change today. You said
3 that there was a group of policemen there -- let me just check if that's
4 paragraph 9. And in your earlier statement - let me just find it, and I
5 do apologise -- no, it's actually in paragraph 5, I'm sorry. So in
6 paragraph 5 you said a large group of police officers, and in the
7 statement, the latest consolidated statement of 2006, the exact number
8 that you provided was four policemen. So how come there is this
10 A. It's not any change. Number 4 refers to the first group that
11 approached our tractor. At 9.00 another group came and that was a very
12 large group.
13 Q. Well, Madam, this is what I'm reading. It says in your statement
14 at around 2400 [as interpreted] hours four police officers came, so
15 that's what I'm talking about. And today you say a large group of
16 policemen came.
17 A. At 2100 there was a very large group of policemen who came and
18 ordered us to get on the tractor. Then when we were on the tractor,
19 another group of four policemen approached our tractor.
20 Q. Thank you. And how far were the other policemen from that group
21 of four men who were next to you?
22 A. They walked on the road. When they gave us the order to get on
23 the tractor, that group was walking along the way. And they ordered us
24 that all the drivers get on the tractors. And everyone went to his or
25 her tractor. We went to ours. We got on the tractor. Then came the
1 other group of four policemen who came near our tractor. I didn't pay
2 any attention to the other policemen, where they went, but I'm talking of
3 the first group that came to the tractor.
4 Q. Thank you.
5 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I would like to
6 tender the previous document into evidence, the one with the uniforms.
7 JUDGE PARKER: The photograph showing samples of camouflage will
8 be received.
9 [Trial Chamber and Registrar confer]
10 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, the marked photograph will be
11 Exhibit D68.
12 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Now, if we could get on our
13 screens -- it's a 65 ter -- 65 ter document of the Prosecution, 5244,
14 that's the number. Could you please scroll down a little bit.
15 JUDGE PARKER: I think that's the total map on the screen.
16 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Yes, but a little while ago it
17 was -- I would like us to look at the northern part that the witness
18 couldn't draw into the map.
19 JUDGE PARKER: I don't think that's on this map.
20 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Yes, Bajgora, yes, you can see it
21 up there. Now we can see the northern part but now we don't have the
22 lower part. Could you please zoom out a little bit. Can we -- yes,
23 okay. We can see Gornja Sudimlja, but we don't see Donja Dubnica, we see
24 Cecelija. Well, we can't get what we need on this map obviously.
25 JUDGE PARKER: It's all there now, but you won't be able to see
1 it all I'm afraid because it's not distinct enough.
2 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]
3 Q. Mrs. Fedrije, are you able to read this or not?
4 A. Until now I have been able to, but maybe you can zoom it out a
5 little bit more.
6 Q. Thank you. Mrs. Fedrije, now, if you can -- but we have
7 Dobra Luka, but we don't have the lower part.
8 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could you please zoom out and then
9 we will see how far we can get. If we can't do it, we'll just leave that
11 Q. I would now like you to mark in one colour the places that you
12 went through on your route from your village, Donji Svracak, am I right.
13 If you could just take a pen and just underline --
14 JUDGE PARKER: Are you asking the witness to mark those nine
15 places again?
16 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Yes, but now I would like us to
17 look at the route she took on the way out and also the route that she may
18 have taken on the route back. We don't have Leskovac, we have all the
19 way up to Slakovce, but not Leskovac. And up there we have the locations
20 that the witness is talking about, and I wanted her to indicate those
21 locations and to ask her if she knew about that.
22 I agree that this is a small-scale map and that it will be
23 difficult, but the witness says that she can do it. I can see it
24 perfectly well on the big map that I have in my hands; but to be quite
25 frank, I couldn't do it on the small map.
1 JUDGE PARKER: I don't understand why you're doing it. Is there
2 a particular location you want her to mark that has not been marked or is
3 there a particular part of the route that you want marked that hasn't
4 been marked?
5 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour -- well, the
6 witness -- this northern part that you can't see, you can't see the
7 village of Leskovac where she spent several weeks and -- well I don't
8 want to go into that now. I will be asking her about that later. But I
9 will be asking her questions, but we can't use this exhibit. Thank you
10 very much. We will move on.
11 Q. Ms. Fedrije, in 1999 you lived in the village of Donji Svracak
12 am I right?
13 A. Yes, Saracak i Ulet.
14 THE INTERPRETER: Could the witness be asked to speak closer to
15 the microphone, please.
16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Until the 8th of March, when we
17 left, and then we returned after the end of the war.
18 THE INTERPRETER: Correction: 28th of March.
19 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]
20 Q. Is the that up until the beginning of the war in 1999 you did not
21 work at all?
22 A. I worked as a dress-maker at home, as a private employee. After
23 the war, I started working where I work now.
24 Q. Thank you. Now up until March 1999, where did you go from your
25 village, what neighbouring villages did you go to or did you go to any
1 other places outside of Kosovo?
2 A. No, I didn't go outside of Kosova. We stayed mostly at home, but
3 I didn't leave Kosova.
4 Q. Thank you. Thank you. Now I would like to ask you this: Before
5 the war started, were you in the village of Donja Dubnica?
6 A. Dumnice e Poshtem, no, I wasn't there.
7 Q. Thank you. There are three Dubnicas. Did you go to any of those
9 A. I was only when we left the war -- because of the war. It was
10 the Dumnice we passed through to go to Dumnice e Poshtem, then
11 Dumnice e Mesme, e Eperme, and then we entered Samadrexha.
12 Q. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Fedrije. Could you just answer my
13 questions with yes or no to speed things up. Now, before the war, did
14 you go to the village of Samodreza
15 A. Yes, I had been there because my aunt is married there.
16 Q. Thank you. Did you go to the village of Slavkovci
17 interpreted] before the war?
18 A. No, I didn't go there.
19 Q. Thank you. Did you go to the village of Veskovce
20 A. No, I didn't go to Vesekoc either.
21 Q. Thank you. And did you go to Smrekovnica before the war?
22 A. When we went to Mitrovice, we passed by because Smrekonica is
23 close to the road that links Vushtrri with Smrekonica, the main road, but
24 otherwise I haven't been there.
25 Q. Thank you. Could you tell me what was the name of the village
1 where the front line was broken, it was up north, the front line held by
2 the Serbian forces. It was in late -- in early -- or in late April and
3 early May.
4 A. It was called Milene -- Melenice village. It was west of Shale
5 area. It was situated -- the front was broken on both sides of the
7 Q. Thank you. Had you ever heard of that village before, had you
8 ever gone there?
9 A. I wasn't there before.
10 Q. Thank you. And who told you that the front line had been broken
11 through in that village?
12 A. The people who lived there who brought the news of what was going
13 on, from where the danger was coming from. They told us that the front
14 line was broken in Melenice and that it was dangerous to remain there.
15 That's why we decided to leave Vesekovc.
16 Q. Thank you. You used the term Salja area, Salja district. Can
17 you explain to us, what is it?
18 A. It is in Mitrovice municipality. It was a very large area
19 comprising several villages, like Bajgor, Bara, Melenice, Kacandoll, many
20 other villages. It is called Shale area or zone. It was a safer zone.
21 People from all over went there to take shelter until the front line was
22 broken in Melenice and Kacandoll.
23 Q. Thank you. Ms. Fedrije, in paragraph 4 of your statement, that's
24 the 2006 statement, you say that the KLA fighters informed us that the
25 resistance in the village of Meljenica
1 municipality of Mitrovica and that the Serbs were advancing from the
2 north. Those people you were telling us about, were they members of the
3 KLA, those people who told you that?
4 A. The KLA informed the population and then the news spread among
5 the people, and we organised ourselves into a column to return to
7 Q. Thank you. Well, am I right then that the KLA, as is indicated
8 in your statement, informed you that the resistance had been broken in
9 the village of Meljenica
10 north. They told us that we should try and break through to Vucitrn?
11 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's note: The counsel is kindly
12 asked to slow down when reading.
13 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, I think so, that it was the
14 KLA that informed the people because it was the KLA that was protecting
15 the people, but the KLA couldn't resist anymore the Serb forces. That's
16 why it, the KLA, informed the people to leave that area.
17 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]
18 Q. Thank you. And how were you supposed to break through to
20 A. Can you repeat the question, please?
21 Q. Let me read a portion of your statement so that we get it right:
22 "They told us that we should try and break through to Vucitrn."
23 A. This was after the two days we stayed in Sllakovc. We thought
24 that the only way for us to escape was to go to Vushtrri, and that's why,
25 as I said, we organised ourselves into this column to go into Vushtrri.
1 Q. Thank you. Well, was Slakovci in the stage of combat when you
2 set out to Vucitrn so that you had to get through? That's why I asked
3 what that was all about, getting through from Slakovci to Vucitrn. Could
4 you please describe that a bit.
5 A. Yes, we had to leave Sllakovc too because we saw that the danger
6 was approaching Sllakovc. We joined the column to get through to
7 Vushtrri because we thought that that was the best solution, but we
8 didn't think that the worst could happen to us on the 2nd of May there.
9 Q. Thank you. What kind of danger are you talking about, could you
10 please describe that for us?
11 A. We could hear explosions, shelling coming from the Shale area
12 where the Serb forces were. We could hear the shots. We could feel that
13 the danger was close because of that, because we could hear all sorts of
14 shots, firing from all sorts of weapons, from that area because there
15 were Serb forces coming in the direction of Sllakovc where we were.
16 Q. Can you tell by the firing what forces are actually doing the
18 A. Of course, we were informed that these were -- shots were coming
19 from the Serb forces.
20 Q. Thank you. And the KLA was not shooting?
21 A. No, I didn't hear the KLA firing shots.
22 Q. Thank you. Where was the KLA then when you were in Slakovci?
23 A. I think they were positioned at Ceceli village. In Sllakovc,
24 however, there were a lot of people from the Shala area, whereas the KLA
25 forces were positioned in Ceceli village.
1 Q. Thank you. But you said that the KLA was protecting you. How
2 was that the case when you came to Slakovci?
3 A. We didn't stay at Sllakovc. We joined the convoy in order to get
4 to Vushtrri.
5 Q. All right. Tell me, how were they protecting you while you were
6 in the village of Veskovce
7 A. The KLA was very far from where we were. They were in other
8 villages, not where the people were. They were trying to repel the
9 attacks of the Serb forces, to prevent them from coming closer to the
10 area where the civilian population was.
11 Q. Thank you. And before the Serb forces came along, these
12 territories were held by the KLA; am I right?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Thank you. Were there any members of the KLA in your village in
15 March 1999?
16 A. No, there weren't.
17 Q. Thank you. And how was it that the KLA informed you -- no,
18 actually -- or yes, how did they inform you that you were supposed to
19 leave Samodreza and go further on?
20 A. They informed a person and that person came and told us that we
21 were supposed to leave Samadrexha, as the Serb forces were approaching
22 this village. So the KLA, I assume, observed the movement of the forces
23 and the terrain and then informed the people, and these people then came
24 and informed us, told us that we had to leave.
25 Q. Thank you. Mrs. Fedrije, could you please tell me, you were from
1 Donji Svracak. Where is Gornji Svracak?
2 A. It is adjacent to Saracak i Ulet. They are separate villages,
3 but Saracak e Eperm or Upper Saracak is further up, whereas the lower one
4 is lower down.
5 Q. Could you please tell me, or rather, are these villages on two
6 different sides of a hill?
7 A. The Lower Saracak is on a plain, whereas the Upper Saracak is on
8 an elevation, on a hilly part, that's why they're called like they're
9 called. Saracak e Eperm, i.e., upper Saracak, is on a hilly area.
10 Q. Thank you. Can you see Gornji Svracak from your own village with
11 the naked eye?
12 A. Yes, you can see it very well.
13 Q. Thank you. And what about Donja Sudimlja, can you see it from
14 your village with the naked eye?
15 A. Only some of its houses. There is a hill between Saracak and
16 Studime e Ulet, so you can only see part of Studime from my village.
17 Q. Mrs. Fedrije, on this map provided to us by the OTP,
18 Gornji Svracak and Donji Svracak and Donja Sudimlja are behind a hill,
19 which is feature 588, but this would be a subject for a different kind of
20 analysis. Thank you. Let us move on.
21 Can you tell me when it was that the Serbs left the village in
22 March 1999 or earlier -- tell me, when did they leave?
23 A. They left one night before we left in March 1999. They left the
24 village a day before we did.
25 Q. Thank you. Do you know whether in 1998 the Serb families left
1 the village at all?
2 A. No. They lived there in the village until the day they left, one
3 day before we did.
4 Q. Thank you. Mrs. Fedrije, in your statement from 2001 you stated,
5 it's paragraph 3:
6 "We moved out of the village because some of our Serb neighbours
7 had also moved out and they went to the village of Nedakovac
8 that perhaps something was going on and that is why we decided to leave."
9 You didn't mention any kind of burning or arson. I'm sorry, this
10 is from 2001, but it doesn't matter. The content is correct.
11 A. It is true that the Serbs left a day before we did and went to
12 the village of Nedakovc
13 on fire in Saracak e Eperm. When we saw that all the villagers were
14 leaving their houses, we decided to leave too and together we set off in
15 the direction of Dumnice and went to all these villages that I mentioned.
16 Q. However, today you said to us that you had moved out because
17 houses in your village had been burned down.
18 A. They started to set the houses on fire in Saracak e Eperm.
19 Q. Thank you. A few moments ago you said that you did not recognise
20 any members of the KLA. Was anybody from your house a member of the KLA?
21 A. My brother's son, Ismet, was a member; but he stopped being a
22 member before we left our house.
23 Q. Thank you. How old was Ismet in March 1999?
24 A. 20, I think he was about 20 years old.
25 Q. Thank you. And how old were Mirsad and his other brother, the
1 third brother I mean, Lavdim?
2 A. Mirsad was 16 years old, whereas Lavdim was 13.
3 Q. Thank you. You said that the Serbs kept searching for Ismet all
4 the time. Could you please explain that to us a bit.
5 A. Ismet, at the time, had joined the KLA; and the Serbs in the
6 village wanted to find out about each and every member of the village,
7 where they were. So they asked about Ismet too, so fearing that
8 something might happen to his family, Ismet left the KLA and joined the
9 family again.
10 Q. How did they know that Ismet was a member of the KLA, on the
11 basis of what?
12 A. That I don't know. I don't know.
13 Q. Thank you. Did he have a uniform?
14 A. No. He was in civilian clothes during his time in the KLA. He
15 didn't have a uniform.
16 Q. Thank you. Did you see whether he had any weapons?
17 A. No, he didn't have any.
18 Q. Thank you. You did not see that he had a weapon; am I right?
19 A. He didn't have a weapon.
20 Q. How come you know that he didn't have a weapon ? It's one thing
21 if you didn't see that he had a weapon; it's a different thing if you say
22 that he did not have a weapon at all.
23 A. During that time - he would come and visit the family very
24 often - he never had a weapon with him when he would visit, and he stayed
25 in Vucitrn for a short time --
1 THE INTERPRETER: In the KLA, correction, not Vucitrn.
2 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]
3 Q. Thank you. Do you think that it could not be seen that he had a
4 uniform -- a weapon?
5 A. He didn't have a weapon. He wouldn't hide it from us if he had
7 Q. Very well. Thank you. Did you all live in a single house, in a
8 single household, you, two sisters, two brothers, with your families,
9 your father and mother?
10 A. Yes, we all lived in a single house.
11 Q. Thank you. Did the Serbian police come to your house to look for
13 A. No, they didn't come to our house, but they did ask about him,
14 our neighbours in the village. And then Ismet withdrew.
15 Q. Thank you. When you left your house, am I right if I believe
16 that you were all on a tractor?
17 A. Yes. On that date we were all on a tractor, the whole family,
18 with the exception of my father; my uncle, Muharrem; and my uncle's son,
19 Hilmi, who wanted to remain in the house. But they did leave the house
20 that night because there was sniper gun-fire from the direction of
21 Nedakovc village, so they had to leave and abandon the houses.
22 Q. Thank you. How come Uncle Muharrem, maternal uncle or paternal
23 uncle, I didn't quite understand, did it just so happen that they joined
24 you or did they live with you?
25 A. Our family, extended family, have the houses next to each other.
1 So my house was close to the houses of my uncles. We were four.
2 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Djurdjic, we'll have to have the second break
3 now. We'll resume at ten minutes past 6.00.
4 --- Recess taken at 5.44 p.m.
5 [Witness stands down]
6 --- On resuming at 6.14 p.m.
7 JUDGE PARKER: While the witness is coming in, could I remind
8 counsel that because of the needs of another Trial Chamber we are now to
9 sit tomorrow morning at 9.00 instead of 2.15 as originally listed. And
10 we sit again on Friday of course at 9.00 in the morning.
11 [The witness takes the stand]
12 JUDGE PARKER: Yes, Mr. Djurdjic.
13 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.
14 Q. Ms. Fedrije, could you tell us, why did you decide to head from
15 Donji Svrakovci to Donja Dubnica?
16 A. Are you talking about my village?
17 Q. Yes. So why did you leave your village to go to Dubnica?
18 A. Because I told you earlier, we felt it was dangerous to remain
19 there. We wanted to go to safer places. We went to Dumnice e Mesme,
20 middle Dumnice. From there we continued to Samadrexha and to the
21 villages I mentioned earlier.
22 Q. Thank you. You told me why you left the village, but my question
23 was: Why did you decide to head towards middle Dubnica, as you've just
24 told us?
25 A. Because it was a safer area.
1 Q. Thank you, Ms. Fedrije, but you were perhaps less than a
2 kilometre away from Vucitrn. It's a town. And according to some
3 information, some people were leaving to Vucitrn in order to seek shelter
4 in a safe place.
5 A. People left Vushtrri and came to Dumnice. It was dangerous for
6 us to go back to Vushtrri. That's why we chose to go to Dumnice where we
7 went -- from where we went to other villages of Shale.
8 Q. Thank you. And Lazovici, where is Lazovici in relation to your
10 A. I don't know. It is at the entrance to Samadrexha village, but
11 how far it is from my village, I might say 2 or 3 kilometres. It is near
12 Saracak e Eperm, Upper Saracak, very close, this neighbourhood of
14 Q. Thank you. And did you yourself see the check-point at Lazovici?
15 A. No, but people said that the police check-point -- at the police
16 check-point there were other forces and people were not free to pass
17 through to Samadrexha and go to other villages. But I wasn't there
18 myself to see them with my own eyes.
19 Q. Thank you. Did you ever go to Kacandol?
20 A. No.
21 Q. Thank you. And do you know where Kacandol is?
22 A. It is in the Shale zone on the side of Llap, Podujeve.
23 Q. Thank you. You've replied to what was to be my next question.
24 You say that you heard gun-fire from the Lap area and shelling.
25 How far is it from the place where you were? Can you estimate the
1 distance and did you see the gun-fire or did you just hear it?
2 A. We only heard the gun-fire. We heard the shelling. I cannot
3 tell you, in accurate terms, the distance. I don't know how far the
4 place where we were is from Kacandoll village.
5 Q. Thank you. Am I right when I say that you were going back the
6 same route that you took when you went to the village of Leskovac
7 A. Yes, that's correct. We followed the same route we went on our
9 Q. Thank you. And as you were going out and as you were coming
10 back, that road was safe for you; am I right?
11 A. We didn't face any dangers on the road that night. For the
12 others, there might have been some dangers; for us, there wasn't any
13 because we passed earlier.
14 Q. Thank you. Am I right when I say that you came into danger only
15 when you headed out of Cecelija towards Gornja Sudimlja and then on to
16 Donja Sudimlja?
17 A. For us it was danger from Studime e Eperme up to Vushtrri. We
18 were faced with danger during all that time. Maybe for the others who
19 were left behind, even the route they followed from Ceceli to Studime was
21 Q. I don't know, can you explain to me why do you say those who were
22 left behind? Why is it that the road from Cecelija to Sudimlja was
23 dangerous for them?
24 A. Because the Serb forces were coming along that route. They were
25 coming towards the population. We left -- some of us left earlier, some
1 left later, so it was dangerous for those who were left behind.
2 Q. Well, in your statement you say that the KLA was heading in the
3 opposite direction in relation to the column where you were.
4 A. Yes, that day, the KLA had left in the opposite direction,
5 whereas we entered through the road to Studime.
6 Q. Thank you. And the police and the APCs that you were talking
7 about were also heading in the opposite direction, am I right, in
8 relation to the column where you were?
9 A. The police forces came along the same way that the column was
10 heading. I didn't see them when they arrived because we left earlier.
11 The Serb forces caught up with us at the time that I mentioned, at 2100
12 hours when we were between the two Studimes. This -- that was when they
13 came, where we were.
14 Q. Thank you. Did you ever see a KLA member in uniform?
15 A. During the time we were in Sllakovc, yes, I saw KLA members in
16 uniforms passing by.
17 Q. Thank you. And did you see them en route from Slakovci to
18 Gornja Sudimlja and Donja Sudimlja?
19 A. No, no. I saw them one day before we left in the column. On the
20 road to Studime, I didn't see any KLA members.
21 Q. You say in paragraph 9 of your 2006 statement:
22 "We took the opportunity to send Ismet on to inform the KLA
23 fighters in the mountains about what had happened."
24 Could you please explain to us first of all: How did you know
25 where the KLA troops were?
1 A. We didn't know where the KLA fighters were. Ismet didn't know it
2 either. But that night that he left us, he stayed in the mountain for
3 that night in the vicinity of Samadrexha. There were two others with
4 Ismet who knew where to find the KLA soldiers. I don't know where they
5 met, but Ismet wasn't sure where he would meet the KLA soldiers.
6 Q. Well, what was Ismet's task?
7 A. A day later, he spoke with the soldiers; but the army had already
8 received the news of what had happened. This is what Ismet said.
9 Together with the KLA and other civilians, they collected the corpses
10 that had remained in the mountains.
11 Q. Thank you. You say that Ismet told you that. When did he tell
12 you that?
13 A. He told me this when the war was over, when I met him and Jetish.
14 Q. Thank you. And what effect was this, Ismet's warning, supposed
15 to have with the KLA and that had prompted you to send him there on that
17 A. The main reason for us was to keep Ismet safe. That's why we
18 wanted him to go back to the KLA headquarters. We didn't want him to be
19 killed by the Serb forces.
20 Q. Thank you. And your uncle was with you too, Muharrem, I believe?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Did he know -- could he drive a tractor?
23 A. No. He was with his family. We met him somewhere on the road to
24 Studime e Ulet, and that's when we told him what had happened with
25 members of my family.
1 Q. Thank you. And could cousin Mirsad drive a tractor? I believe
2 he was older than Vadim [phoen].
3 A. When we got to the tractor, Mirsad and Fazli continued on foot.
4 We met them on the road to Studime e Ulet that night, when we got all
5 together again.
6 Q. Thank you. When you're talking about the police uniforms, you
7 say that the police had green camouflage uniforms and blue camouflage
8 uniforms; am I right?
9 A. What I said is the following: That the police was wearing blue
10 camouflage uniforms, dark blue pattern. This is the police uniform that
11 I saw on that night.
12 Q. Yes. And in the statement at page 3, that's the 2000 statement,
13 you say one of them was fat and blond and wore a green camouflage
14 uniform, the police officer who beat Jetish.
15 A. The police officer who beat Jetish wore a dark blue camouflage
16 uniform, and on top of it he had a vest, green camouflage vest. This is
17 the description I gave for his uniform.
18 Q. Thank you. And could you please tell me, what is the difference
19 between the military and paramilitary units, according to you?
20 A. I couldn't tell the difference.
21 Q. Ms. Fedrije, you explained to us today how you managed to learn
22 certain things since you started working in the factory in Vucitrn, but I
23 am interested in 1999. Did you -- did I understand you correctly that
24 you did not make a distinction between military and paramilitary units?
25 A. As I said earlier, at that time I thought that paramilitaries
1 were those who wore Balaclavas and gloves. Those who were there on that
2 night, the 2nd of May, were all dressed in blue camouflage uniforms. Now
3 I know that they were policemen, dressed in police uniforms.
4 Q. Thank you. And am I right when I say that women and children
5 left for Vucitrn and they were safe, all of those who were in front of
6 you in the convoy?
7 A. None of us was safe. Everybody who was in the convoy faced the
8 same danger. 180 persons were killed only that night. I apologise, 118
9 persons were killed on that night in Studime on the 2nd of May.
10 Q. Thank you. And who told you that?
11 A. That night I only knew about my family, about the number of
12 persons killed from my family, and I saw these corpses en route. But
13 after the war, I heard about this from people who had been present when
14 these persons were killed and who had buried the bodies.
15 Q. Thank you. Ms. Fedrije, did you ever go to the Vucitrn OUP
16 before the war?
17 A. No, I didn't.
18 Q. Thank you. I'm sure that you never had any business whatsoever
19 with any policemen before the war?
20 A. No, I never had any business with them. I would occasionally see
21 them on the street when I would go out.
22 Q. Thank you. Well, how come you say then in your statement in
23 paragraph 10 -- how come you talk about policeman Simic? Did you know
25 A. I didn't know him, but people said that night that that was
1 Mr. Simic, the person who was ordering the men to go to the other side,
2 who were separating the men. So I heard this from other people. It was
3 him and other policemen there, but I just remembered his name.
4 Q. Thank you. I found this on page 5 now in the third paragraph in
5 the statement from the 26th of February, 2000. You said:
6 "These policemen wore green camouflage uniforms, but they were
7 too far away from me, about 200 metres away, so I could not discern the
8 insignia on their uniforms."
9 So there were policemen in green camouflage uniforms as well; am
10 I right?
11 A. I don't recall the date, but these were people dressed in
12 uniforms who entered that neighbourhood and expelled the people from that
13 neighbourhood. They were quite far from me, so I am not able to describe
14 their uniform; but they were dressed in uniforms, these people who
15 entered this neighbourhood.
16 Q. Thank you. But you say that they were policemen?
17 A. I'm not certain whether they were policemen. I could not discern
18 their uniform because they were far away.
19 Q. Thank you. When you came to this co-operative, you say that the
20 men were separated from the women and children. Did somebody tell you
21 why that was being done?
22 A. The end was well known. We could see that they were loading
23 these men on trucks and taking them somewhere. We later learned that
24 they were being taken to Smrekonica prison.
25 Q. Thank you. But your uncle was not taken away; am I not right?
1 A. No, not on that day.
2 Q. Yes, yes, we're talking about that day, the 2nd or 3rd of May.
3 So tell me, please, how did you leave the column when you went to that
4 village - what was it? - Kicic, Velika Kicic, and afterwards to
5 Dobra Luka?
6 A. The police that was there ordered us who were on foot to set off
7 in the direction of Kiciq, Doberlluka, and the third village. We chose
8 Kiciq. There we found an abandoned Albanian house, and we stayed there
9 for four days. The family who owned that house returned, then we left
10 and proceeded to the next village where we stayed until the end of the
12 Q. Ms. Fedrije, thank you for having answered my questions.
13 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I have completed my
15 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you very much, Mr. Djurdjic.
16 Ms. Nilsen, is there re-examination?
17 MS. NILSEN: Your Honours, the Prosecution don't have any
18 questions for re-examination. Thank you.
19 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.
20 [Trial Chamber confers]
21 JUDGE PARKER: You'll be pleased to know that that concludes the
22 questions for you. The Judges would like to thank you for your
23 attendance here again in The Hague
24 been able to give us. You are now, of course, free to leave and the
25 court officer will show you out and you go with our thanks.
1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours, for giving
2 me the opportunity to testify before this Court.
3 [The witness withdrew]
4 JUDGE PARKER: Ms. Nilsen, is it practical to think of commencing
5 the next witness with 10 or 12 minutes to go or would we be fresher in
6 the morning?
7 MS. NILSEN: Your Honours, I think maybe we would -- it would be
8 better if we could start with the witness tomorrow morning, yes, because
9 we already released the witness to go. Thank you.
10 JUDGE PARKER: That rather determines the matter, doesn't it?
11 MS. NILSEN: Yeah.
12 JUDGE PARKER: Very well.
13 We will adjourn now to resume tomorrow morning at 9.00.
14 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 6.50 p.m.
15 to be reconvened on Thursday, the 2nd day of
16 April, 2009, at 9.00 a.m.