Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 3816

 1                           Tuesday, 28 April 2009

 2                           [Open session]

 3                           [The accused entered court]

 4                           --- Upon commencing at 9.04 a.m.

 5                           [The witness takes the stand]

 6             JUDGE PARKER:  Good morning.

 7             THE WITNESS:  Good morning.

 8             JUDGE PARKER:  The affirmation you made at the beginning of your

 9     evidence to tell the truth still applies.

10             Mr. Djurdjic.

11             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours.

12                           WITNESS:  EDISON ZATRIQI [Resumed]

13                           [Witness answered through interpreter]

14                           Cross-examination by Mr. Djurdjic: [Continued]

15        Q.   [Interpretation] Mr. Zatriqi, were you a member -- the owner of

16     Flamingo Tours company?

17        A.   Yes, I was one of the owners of this agency.

18        Q.   Thank you.  When was your agency established?

19        A.   This agency was established in December 1989.

20        Q.   Thank you.  You actually dealt in transportation, that was your

21     business?

22        A.   Yes, in transportation.  Also in transportation and in tourist

23     tours.

24        Q.   Thank you.  In 1998 and 1999, did you have to pay double

25     registration?

Page 3817

 1        A.   Would you be more explicit, please, because I'm not so sure about

 2     what you are asking me because normally you have to register your cars or

 3     your car.

 4        Q.   All right.  I will show you a document now, and then we'll see

 5     whether you're familiar with it.

 6             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have number

 7     D002-6060.

 8        Q.   Mr. Zatriqi, can you read this document, please?

 9        A.   Yes, I can.

10        Q.   This is a document of the Main Staff of the military police

11     administration of the KLA dated 3rd February, 1999, and it refers to the

12     decision by the Main Staff of 31 December 1998 to determine the fees for

13     registration of vehicles and then, among other things, it says under 1

14     it's up to 900 Deutschemarks; under 2 it says that the fee has to be paid

15     for one year and that it will correspond to the period of registration.

16             So my question is:  In addition to the normal registration,

17     regular registration, did you also have to pay for registration in

18     keeping with this decision of the military police administration?

19        A.   This is the first time for me to see such a document.  Reading it

20     I can see that you have to pay for vehicles travelling in those areas

21     controlled by KLA.  Peje was not one of them; that's why I didn't have a

22     chance to look at such a document or to pay such a fee.

23        Q.   Thank you.

24             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we see, please, the

25     Defence document D002-6058.  Thank you.  Could we just zoom in a bit

Page 3818

 1     more, please.

 2        Q.   Mr. Zatriqi, do you recognise this image, this photo?

 3        A.   Yes, relatively, yes.  It's a very small picture.  It's not easy

 4     for me to distinguish clearly the facilities there.

 5        Q.   Yes, I know you can't see any facilities.  We couldn't do that

 6     yesterday either, but could you please just put an X in the area where

 7     your house was on this photo?

 8        A.   It's very hard for me to do that because it is indeed very small.

 9     It must be here, on this part.  I can't be accurate in my location.

10             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Djurdjic, we could try coming in closer to

11     about half the size of the present picture if that is likely to help the

12     witness.

13             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

14             Perhaps if we can come a little closer still and then maybe we

15     can pull up the photo.  Thank you.

16        Q.   Is this better, Mr. Zatriqi?

17        A.   It is better than before, but still it's a problem for me.

18             JUDGE PARKER:  I think we might have to leave it then,

19     Mr. Djurdjic.

20             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] All right.  We'll move on, Your

21     Honour.  Thank you.

22        Q.   Is it correct, Mr. Zatriqi, that in paragraph 8 of your

23     statement, your June 2001 statement, you said:

24             "I did not see the buses again, since that moment on, until I

25     returned in Pec on the 26th of July, 1999."

Page 3819

 1             So this refers to the time when you actually handed over the

 2     buses, when they were confiscated.  Is this paragraph correct?

 3        A.   Yes, this is what I stated.  It was not that I handed over the

 4     buses, actually.  They were confiscated.

 5        Q.   Yes, but my question was about this paragraph 8, the first

 6     sentence reads:

 7             "From that moment I did not see the buses until I returned to Pec

 8     on the 26th of July, 1999."

 9        A.   That's correct.

10        Q.   Thank you.  In this same paragraph but in the next sentence you

11     said:

12             "The buses were in the same place but burned down."

13             You men when you arrived there on the 26th of July, 1999.  Am I

14     correct that you were not an eye-witness to that event, to the burning of

15     the buses?

16        A.   That's correct.  As you can see from my statement, I returned

17     very late from my exile.  So when I came I was faced with such a

18     situation, but I wasn't there to eye-witness what actually happened.

19        Q.   Thank you.  In paragraph 10 you state that there was shooting

20     in -- at Kapesnica, but did you happen to notice whether there was any

21     shooting coming from Kapesnica?

22        A.   No, no shooting came from Kapeshnice.

23        Q.   Thank you.  How do you know that there was no fire coming from

24     Kapesnica?

25        A.   I know it very well because from the back of my house you can

Page 3820

 1     have a very good view of Kapeshnice, you can have an entire view of the

 2     place, and when I was moving about the house I could see very clearly

 3     that no fire came from Kapeshnice.

 4        Q.   Thank you.  Transcript page 3803, lines 23 through 25,

 5     and page 3804, lines 1 to 4, of yesterday's transcript you said:

 6             "My house was in such a position that I could see the direction

 7     from which these shells were fired and where they were headed.  These

 8     shells were flying over my house.  I moved around the house from the

 9     third floor and in the area behind the house so I could see the shelling,

10     I could see where the shells were fired from, and what the targets were.

11     The shells fell on a neighbourhood that is across from our neighbourhood

12     and it's called Kapeshnica."

13             Now, Mr. Zatriqi, in paragraph 10 you say that fire was opened on

14     Kapesnica, but you do not say that you've actually observed this.  You

15     said that you were in the cellar of your house, in the basement.

16             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Your Honours.

17             JUDGE PARKER:  Ms. D'Ascoli.

18             MS. D'ASCOLI:  I'm sorry to interrupt, but at least in the

19     English version that I have, paragraph 10, page 2, the last sentence says

20     exactly:  "They were firing at the neighbourhoods of Kapeshnica.  I saw

21     this myself."

22             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

23             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

24        Q.   Yes, but you were in the basement.  Is it correct that you were

25     in the basement?

Page 3821

 1        A.   No, that's not correct.  Even yesterday I said that my family, my

 2     children, my parents were in the basement, whereas I, myself, moved about

 3     the house all the time.

 4        Q.   Well, that's what I said that that's what you stated yesterday;

 5     but in your 2001 June statement, in paragraph 10 - and I've just read it

 6     out to you - you said the 26th and the 27th of March I stayed in the

 7     basement of my house.

 8             Does that mean that this portion of your statement is incorrect,

 9     your -- this portion of your 2001 statement?

10        A.   No, doesn't mean that it's not accurate, but I meant that I

11     prepared the basement in order to accommodate my family there, to protect

12     them from the shelling because I considered the basement as a very

13     suitable place to hide.  But now and again I visited them.  I might have

14     stayed there for a while but then went back to the house and moved about.

15        Q.   Thank you.  But that is not what you said in your June statement;

16     correct?

17        A.   I believe that you can imply what I meant by placing my family

18     there.  Initially I thought to hide there myself, but then I changed my

19     mind.  I decided to go up and see what was going on outside.

20        Q.   Yes, but please answer my question.  This is something that you

21     said later on when you testified before the Court, but in this statement

22     that I've shown to you that is not what is stated.  Am I correct?

23             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Djurdjic, you are repeating and repeating.

24     There can be no confusion about the position.  The statement in the

25     paragraph says that I stayed in the basement in my house for those two

Page 3822

 1     days.  The last sentence of that paragraph says "I saw this myself,"

 2     speaking of the firing.  The two are not compatible.  The witness in his

 3     evidence yesterday and repeated again today says the explanation is

 4     simple:  "My family were in the basement.  I was there with them at times

 5     but most of the time I moved around the house and I could see clearly

 6     from the upper floors of the house where the shooting was occurring and

 7     where the shells were landing."  Now, what more can he say about that and

 8     what more do you hope to get from him?  You can put to us later that this

 9     is different and what he's now saying is not what he said originally and

10     we will have to weigh up whether that is something we accept or not.  But

11     you've got all the facts from the witness, so you're just pressing on for

12     no purpose.

13             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.  My

14     question was precisely aimed at the fact that this was omitted and it had

15     no other purpose.  My question was just:  Is it true that you did not say

16     this, that you were in the basement and that you actually did not say so

17     at the time.  Thank you.  I will move on.

18        Q.   On transcript page 3806, this is yesterday's transcript, you said

19     that the Serbian army shelled using tanks.  In your June 2006 statement

20     you never mentioned that you saw any artillery or any weapon from which

21     the shelling actually came?

22        A.   May I reply?

23        Q.   Yes.

24        A.   Thank you.  In my statement, most of it is focused on the

25     deportation of the population.  What you are putting to me now are things

Page 3823

 1     which I replied in answer to questions asked of me at that time.

 2        Q.   Thank you.  On page 3807 of yesterday's transcript, lines 14

 3     through 18, you say:

 4             "We left the house on the 27th of March in the morning because

 5     the previous night, the night of the 26th on to 27th, fire was opened on

 6     our house.  My family, my parents and I, hid in the basement.  I moved

 7     around the house, moving from one part to another, and when the shelling

 8     began we decided to leave."

 9             All right, you've already answered the part that refers to moving

10     around the house so let's move on.

11             On page 3808, lines 1 through 6, you said:

12             "As I've already mentioned, moving from one part of the house to

13     another, I could clearly see that early in the morning, around 2.00 or

14     3.00 a.m., a van, a police van, stopped near my house.  They talked to my

15     neighbours.  There were also neighbours of mine who were armed, and an

16     hour later they started to shoot.  They opened fire in the direction of

17     my house."

18             Now, this portion, Mr. Zatriqi, does not exist in your 2001 June

19     statement.

20        A.   There is only one change.  The minivan didn't belong to the

21     police, but I think it was a privately owned one.  But this also is an

22     answer to a question I was asked.

23        Q.   Please answer my questions.  I've read a portion of the

24     transcript and then I just said that this is something that is not --

25     cannot be found in your statement.

Page 3824

 1             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we now please see

 2     Exhibit P672, could we display it on the screen, please.

 3        Q.   May I just ask you -- in Albanian it's page 3.

 4             Mr. Zatriqi, can you find in that statement of June 1999 that

 5     part concerning policemen that I've just read out to you?

 6        A.   Somewhere towards the end of the page it says:

 7             "We left because there was shooting all night long.  There were

 8     bullet impacts on my house."

 9             MR. DJURDJIC:  I haven't translation.

10             [Interpretation] Hello?  But I can't hear you again.  Okay.

11     Right.  I hear you now.  It's okay.

12        Q.   Mr. Zatriqi, this was quoted by the end of the statement when you

13     stated the reason for leaving Pec, and this passage was from the time

14     when you were still in the house.  You did not mention anywhere that

15     policemen had come, that someone had gotten out of the car and what else

16     happened.  That was Sunday morning, paragraph 13, that is, two paragraphs

17     above.

18        A.   According to the statement we are looking at, later on when I

19     testified I was asked to explain the reasons why we left the house, who

20     was staying in my house, and that's why then I provided the Court with a

21     detailed answer.

22        Q.   Thank you.  And when you were giving this statement in 2001, were

23     you in a hurry?  Was the interviewer in a hurry?

24        A.   No, the gentleman who interviewed me was not in a hurry.  I was

25     in a hurry.

Page 3825

 1        Q.   Thank you.  And in 2001, were are you working for the OSCE?

 2        A.   Yes.

 3        Q.   Thank you.  Would it be fair to say that in paragraph 13, that

 4     is, the third paragraph from the top on that last page, in the last

 5     sentence you stated:

 6             "I did not see any troops"?

 7        A.   It is true that I said that, that I didn't see any military,

 8     didn't see any police, but when the shelling started, I know that that

 9     the shelling was carried out by the army because at that time only the

10     army had tanks.

11        Q.   Mr. Zatriqi, that paragraph 13, I understand it refers to your

12     departure from Pec, nothing else.  Of course I don't mean that you had

13     never seen any troops, but also you say, When I was going towards Rozaje

14     I didn't see any troops.  That's all I meant in that limited context.  I

15     did not intend anything ill.  I was just asking about this particular

16     context.

17        A.   When we were expelled from Peje, I left through a different

18     neighbourhood.  There are many houses in that neighbourhood.  It is true

19     that en route I didn't see any army members or police or -- on the way --

20             THE INTERPRETER:  Correction.

21             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] -- I only saw police and armed

22     civilians.

23             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

24        Q.   Thank you.  You've just used again the word expelled, and I tried

25     to find that word in the statement of June 2001, and to be quite frank, I

Page 3826

 1     have not succeeded.

 2        A.   Maybe it's different wording.  Even if you say "we left," we all

 3     know why we left.  We know the reasons why we left our house.  So it

 4     would be the same thing to say "expelled" or "leave," because to me it

 5     has the same meaning, as I know the reasons why I left my house.

 6        Q.   Thank you.  Was the reason war?

 7        A.   I mentioned the reasons in my statement, the firing, the

 8     shelling, of course the war.

 9        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Zatriqi.  And you left to Montenegro, you left for

10     Rozaje in Montenegro; right?

11        A.   Yes, we had to leave and left in the direction of Rozaje.  We

12     were told to take that direction, and from Rozaje we proceeded towards

13     Ulqin.

14        Q.   Rozaje is in Montenegro, and at that time Montenegro was part of

15     the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia; correct?

16        A.   Yes, you're absolutely right, and this was the reason why I left

17     Montenegro 21 days later.  Although we were not threatened there, the

18     fact that it was the same country, we decided to leave.  We left in the

19     direction of Bosnia, and from Bosnia we took a plane to Istanbul.

20        Q.   Would I be right in saying that you did not see yourself how the

21     mosque in Pec was damaged in 1999?

22        A.   That's correct.  I didn't see the mosque in Peje being damaged or

23     burnt.  And not only the mosque in Peje, but I didn't see any mosque

24     being burnt or damaged myself.

25        Q.   Thank you.  Nor did you eye-witness how the houses were damaged

Page 3827

 1     in Pec in your absence in 1999; am I right?

 2        A.   Yes, you're right.  As I already mentioned, I returned rather

 3     late from exile, sometime on the 26th of July, so it was impossible for

 4     me to see how these houses were damaged or burnt, but 80 per cent of the

 5     houses in Peje were damaged or burnt.  Among them, my house too.

 6        Q.   Thank you.  When you returned --

 7             JUDGE PARKER:  We appear to have a transcript difficulty at the

 8     moment.  You may have to wait a moment.

 9     JUDGE PARKER:  I'm told that the matter may be resolved, although that's

10     not apparent on our screens, so if you would carry on, Mr. Djurdjic.

11             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.  Shall I

12     repeat?

13             JUDGE PARKER:  I understand the part that is missing from our

14     transcript will be caught up at a later time and inserted, so carry on,

15     Mr. Djurdjic, from now.

16             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.

17        Q.   When you returned to Pec in July 1999, were there any Serbs in

18     Pec?

19        A.   When I returned in July, I personally didn't come across any

20     Serb.  I'm speaking about July 1999.

21        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Zatriqi.  I have no further questions for you.

22             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours.  I have

23     finished my cross.

24             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you, Mr. Djurdjic.

25             Ms. D'Ascoli, is there re-examination?

Page 3828

 1             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Yes, Your Honours.

 2                           Re-examination by Ms. D'Ascoli:

 3        Q.   Mr. Zatriqi, I only have a few questions for you and then that

 4     will be the end of your testimony.  First of all, I would like to clarify

 5     one part of your statement, and this is page 3, paragraph 4.

 6             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Maybe if we can have up on the screen the exhibit

 7     number -- yeah.  If we can go to page 3 of the English and Albanian --

 8     the Albanian is also page 3, please.  I'm sorry, the next page.  Thanks.

 9        Q.   Mr. Zatriqi, I'm referring to the paragraph which says:

10             "We left because all night long there had been shooting, there

11     had been bullet impacts on our house, we were in fear for our lives."

12             You were asked about this paragraph by my learned colleague.  I

13     just want to clarify to which moment in time you refer to in this

14     paragraph.  If you can help us with that, please.

15        A.   This occurred on the night between the 26th and 27th of March

16     sometime in the early morning hours.  There was heavy shooting.

17     Fortunately my family was in the basement.  They had taken tranquillisers

18     and they were unable to hear.  But myself, as I was moving about in the

19     house, I did hear the shooting, and I could clearly see how they were

20     shooting.

21        Q.   Therefore, when you say "bullet impacts on our house," to which

22     house are you referring to ?

23        A.   My house, and these were the reasons why we left in the morning.

24        Q.   In the morning of which day, if you remember, please?

25        A.   I remember it very well.  We left from my house on the 27th and

Page 3829

 1     went to Jarina to my aunt's house.

 2        Q.   Thank you.  That's clear now.  I also want to clarify once again

 3     the reasons why you left Pec because my learned colleague asked you about

 4     the reasons why you left your home and also you left Pec.  Can you please

 5     tell us why you and your family left Pec on the 28th of March?

 6        A.   Simply, one of the main reasons amongst other reasons was fear

 7     for our lives.  That's why we left, we joined other people from Peje, and

 8     I can tell you that all of us left Peje because of the fear for our lives

 9     and not willingly.

10        Q.   Did you feel you had a choice to remain in Peje or in your house

11     if you wanted to?

12        A.   I don't think I had a choice.  I think we made the right decision

13     to leave the house.  And it turned out that we made the right decision

14     indeed, as when we returned from exile we saw what had happened in Peje,

15     and we could have gotten worse of it if we remained.

16        Q.   Can I ask you, did you leave for fear of the NATO bombing?

17        A.   No, we didn't fear the NATO bombing at all.  Not only me, but in

18     my opinion no one in Kosova feared NATO bombing.  We could have been a

19     target, but we didn't fear -- in fact, when we heard that the NATO

20     bombing started against Serbian military targets, my wife and I opened a

21     champagne and had a drink, although this was against our religion, but we

22     did know that that was a good thing.

23        Q.   I want to clarify another part of your testimony.  My learned

24     colleague asked you about a paragraph of your 2001 statement, and this

25     is - if we can go back to the statement on the screen - this is page 2 of

Page 3830

 1     the English and page 2 of the Albanian as well.  And do you remember you

 2     were asked about the paragraph which says so:

 3             "From that moment, I did not see the buses anymore until I

 4     returned to Peje on the 26th of July, 1999.  The buses were in the same

 5     place but burned."

 6             Do you remember, sir, you made an addendum in 2002 to this

 7     statement, this previous statement of 2001?

 8        A.   Yes, I remember that.

 9        Q.   And can you tell us the changes that you -- that you inserted in

10     the statement?

11        A.   In the second statement, I clearly state that in the convoy of

12     vehicles in the direction of Rozaje, I saw my own bus filled with

13     "passengers."  All of these people on the bus were Albanian with the

14     exception of the driver who was a policeman dressed in a blue camouflaged

15     uniform.

16        Q.   Thank you.  My last question, Mr. Zatriqi:  My learned colleague

17     also asked you about whether you saw how the mosque and the houses in Pec

18     were damaged in 1999.  I want to ask you:  What did you see when you

19     returned to Peje?  What did you see, I mean like in which conditions you

20     saw the houses in Peje?

21        A.   When I returned in Peje I was shocked.  80 per cent of the houses

22     were damaged.  I toured the town.  I walked about.  I saw many houses and

23     religious facilities destroyed and damaged.

24        Q.   Did you see also mosques and other religious buildings damaged

25     when you returned in Peje?

Page 3831

 1        A.   Yes, I did.  I saw the old mosque in my own neighbourhood, in

 2     Sahat Kulla, and then the one in the heart of Peje, in the old bazaar,

 3     which was like a business quarters with small old shops.  Peje was proud

 4     of this quarters.  At the end of this small street was a mosque called

 5     Carshia mosque, and I think it was under the protection of UNESCO.  It

 6     was completely burned.

 7        Q.   Thank you very much, Mr. Zatriqi.

 8             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Your Honours, I don't have further questions.

 9             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you, Ms. D'Ascoli.

10             Mr. Zatriqi, you'll be pleased to know that concludes the

11     questions of the Chamber for you.  We are grateful that you've been able

12     to come to The Hague again to assist.  We have now not only the evidence

13     you've given yesterday and today, but your earlier statements and the

14     transcript of the evidence you gave at the previous hearings.  We thank

15     you for your assistance, and you are, of course, free now to return to

16     your normal activities.  The court officer will show you out.

17             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.

18                           [The witness withdrew]

19             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Djurdjic.

20             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, Your Honour, can you

21     hear me?  I will like, before the witness comes, in to raise an issue

22     briefly.  I read the Rules yesterday, and I couldn't -- I was no wiser.

23     I received from the Prosecution the testimony 92 bis/live for the next

24     witness, Mazrekaj.  I really can't understand what kind of evidence that

25     is.  Is it 92 bis or is it live?  Are we admitting statements or is new

Page 3832

 1     evidence offered?

 2             JUDGE PARKER:  It is Mr. Behar?

 3             MR. BEHAR:  Yes, Your Honour.  I'm not sure precisely what my

 4     learned colleague's question is.  I know this is --

 5             JUDGE PARKER:  He's asking whether you are giving the evidence of

 6     the next witness pursuant to 92 bis, in written statement form, or

 7     whether he is to be questioned as a live witness.

 8             MR. BEHAR:  No, in the -- in keeping with our previous

 9     questioning, his evidence will be tendered in 92 bis form; however, I

10     will have some brief questions for him as well.

11             JUDGE PARKER:  The brief questions will of course be merely

12     elaboration and clarification and not new evidence?

13             MR. BEHAR:  That's correct.

14             JUDGE PARKER:  I think that should satisfy Mr. Djurdjic.

15     Thank you.

16             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] The witness is not here yet, so I

17     can say this.  The supplement information has 18 paragraphs, and after

18     what I read, I could not really agree that this is an explanation of the

19     previous statement.  That's why I believe they qualified it as

20     92 bis/live.

21             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Behar.

22             MR. BEHAR:  Your Honour, I believe this came up in past, and

23     perhaps I can shed some light in the matter.  The supplemental

24     information sheets that are being provided to Mr. Djurdjic, and certainly

25     in the case of Mr. Mazrekaj, are for the purposes of disclosure, and in

Page 3833

 1     keeping with our disclosure obligations.  And in this case, of course,

 2     it's not an indication that we're intending to lead all or any of that

 3     evidence; it's simply so that the Defence has any new information that's

 4     coming out from that witness.

 5             I don't know if this is giving rise to an impression that we're

 6     intending to tender all that evidence.  I can indicate that's certainly

 7     not my intention.

 8             JUDGE PARKER:  I'm grateful for that, Mr. Behar, because you

 9     might have encountered problems had you been trying.  It has occurred

10     with one or two earlier witnesses, and hence the Chamber is sensitive and

11     Mr. Djurdjic is sensitive to what was a tendency to really have both

12     ways.  So we are now concentrating on Rule 92 bis and the written

13     statement with some limited clarification and elaboration.  We await the

14     witness.

15             MR. BEHAR:  Yes, thank you, Your Honours.  And of course the next

16     witness is Mehmet Mazrekaj.

17                           [The witness entered court]

18             JUDGE PARKER:  Good morning.

19             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good morning.

20             JUDGE PARKER:  Would you please read aloud the affirmation on the

21     card which is shown to you now.

22             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will

23     speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

24                           WITNESS:  MEHMET MAZREKAJ

25                           [Witness answered through interpreter]

Page 3834

 1             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.  Please sit down.

 2             Mr. Behar has some questions for you.

 3                           Examination by Mr. Behar:

 4        Q.   Good morning, sir.

 5        A.   Good morning.

 6        Q.   Could you please provide us with your full name and date of birth

 7     for the record.

 8        A.   My name is Mehmet Mazrekaj from Drenoc village, Decani

 9     municipality, born on the 12th of May, 1944.

10        Q.   I understand, sir, that you were a school teacher at a secondary

11     school in Decan; is that correct?

12        A.   Yes, a teacher of a high school called Brothers Frasheri in

13     Decan.

14        Q.   I understand, sir, that on the 4th of February of 2000 you gave a

15     statement to the Office of the Prosecutor about the events that occurred

16     in your village in 1998 and 1999; is that correct?

17        A.   Yes, that's correct.

18        Q.   And have you had a chance to review that statement before coming

19     to court today?

20        A.   Yes.

21        Q.   Now, I understand there are a couple of corrections or

22     clarifications that you'd like to make to that statement.

23             MR. BEHAR:  Could we have up 65 ter number 02374.

24             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, there were some minor mistakes

25     which I think I improved.

Page 3835

 1             MR. BEHAR:

 2        Q.   Yes, thank you, sir.  And I'll take you through them.

 3             MR. BEHAR:  I see we have the statement up on the screen.  If we

 4     could have it at page 6, please.

 5        Q.   In about the fifth paragraph there and the second line you

 6     state - and I'm quoting - "the police was staying in Xhafer Zukaj's

 7     house.  At the end of that same paragraph it states:

 8             "We were told to go to the basement of that house, and they would

 9     let us know that in five minutes."

10             And let me ask you to be clear.  Are you saying that you were

11     sent to the basement of this same house that the police were in or does a

12     change need to be made?

13        A.   Something must be changed because I didn't mean the basement

14     where the policemen were but I meant the basement was in another house

15     where we were staying in that basement.

16        Q.   Okay.  So this was a different house; correct?

17        A.   Yes.

18        Q.   Can you tell us where this other house was roughly?

19        A.   It was almost across the house where the policemen were staying.

20     Only a street separated them.

21        Q.   Now on the next page, and I think it may actually be two pages

22     ahead of what we're showing on the screen here, it's what I show as

23     page 7, it's the page that begins in English with "an hour later..."

24     That's right.  Thank you very much.

25             The first line of this page states:

Page 3836

 1             "An hour later after we were held there, all villagers were

 2     brought to Xhafer Zukaj's house ..."

 3             Is this line correct?  Were the villagers brought to Mr. Zukaj's

 4     house?

 5        A.   No.  Only some of us who had gone to ask the policemen -- the

 6     police how the people -- the population of the village could go out.

 7        Q.   Right.  Sir, I understand that you explained earlier in your

 8     statement that some of you went to Mr. Zukaj's house, but when you're

 9     talking about where the villagers were brought is this referring to the

10     different house that you mentioned to me before?  Or were villagers being

11     brought to Mr. Zukaj's house?

12        A.   No, it was another house.  They didn't go to Xhafer Zukaj's house

13     because there the police and the army were staying.

14        Q.   Thank you.  And just so we're clear, this other house, is this

15     the same house that you mentioned to me a couple of minutes ago in the

16     first correction?

17        A.   Yes, yes.

18        Q.   Thank you.  The next line states:

19             "My wife, my parents, and two old people were kept outside."

20             My question is:  Where were those people kept outside?  Was this

21     a different place?  Was this a different house?

22        A.   It was another house about 700 metres away from where we were

23     staying.

24        Q.   Can you tell us what house that was, if you know?

25        A.   This house was Adem Vishaj from Beleg.

Page 3837

 1        Q.   Thank you, sir.  With those changes having been made, are you

 2     satisfied that the information contained in this document is true and

 3     accurate to the best of your knowledge and belief?

 4        A.   Yes, to my knowledge and belief it is completely accurate.

 5        Q.   Thank you.

 6             MR. BEHAR:  Your Honours, I would seek to tender that statement,

 7     it's 65 ter number 02374.

 8             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

 9             THE REGISTRAR:  That will be assigned P00675, Your Honours.

10             MR. BEHAR:

11        Q.   Sir, do you recall testifying at the trial of Milutinovic et al.

12     on the 2nd and 3rd of November, 2006?

13        A.   Can you repeat it, please?

14        Q.   Yes.  Sir, do you remember testifying at the trial of

15     Milutinovic et al. on the 2nd and 3rd of November, 2006?

16        A.   Yes, I was here.

17        Q.   And have you had a chance to listen to the transcript of your

18     testimony from that trial?

19        A.   Yes, I had a chance to listen to the transcript -- to read the

20     transcript.

21        Q.   And does that transcript accurately reflect your evidence and

22     would you testify to the same facts today?

23        A.   What I testified then, they were all accurate.  There were,

24     however, a few minor mistakes in the Serbo-Croatian translation of them.

25        Q.   Okay.  Was the content of your answers correct, sir?

Page 3838

 1        A.   My answers were correct as far as I know.  I tried to express

 2     them accurately, but the translation was not very good.  It should have

 3     been in Albanian not in the Serbo-Croatian.

 4        Q.   Yes.  Thank you, sir.

 5             MR. BEHAR:  Your Honours, I would seek to tender

 6     65 ter number 05092, transcript of the witness's testimony.

 7             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

 8             THE REGISTRAR:  That will be assigned P00676, Your Honours.

 9             MR. BEHAR:  Your Honours, I can now provide a brief summary of

10     Mr. Mazrekaj's evidence, and I can indicate that it relates chiefly to

11     paragraphs 72(l) and 77 of the indictment.

12             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

13             MR. BEHAR:  Mr. Mazrekaj is a Kosovar Albanian male school

14     teacher who was born in the village of Drenoc in the Decani municipality.

15             He describes the events of what he calls the first offensive in

16     the summer of 1998, explaining that Serb forces shelled villages within

17     the Decani municipality from a hill and he describes how thousands of

18     villagers were displaced and forced to flee.  Mr. Mazrekaj describes the

19     involvement of police and the use of check-points and explains how he

20     fled with his family before ultimately returning home to Drenoc months

21     later.

22             Mr. Mazrekaj also explains the events of 1999, beginning on the

23     27th of March.  He describes that Serb police came to his village of

24     Drenoc and told the Albanians to leave because of the NATO bombing.

25     Mr. Mazrekaj made efforts to arrange for the civilians to leave and to be

Page 3839

 1     able to cross through certain check-points.  He eventually helped to lead

 2     villagers from Drenoc to Beleg.

 3             Mr. Mazrekaj describes the events the next day, when police came

 4     to Beleg.  He explains that police were operating out of the house of a

 5     man named Xhafer Zukaj, that he went to that house to try to arrange for

 6     Albanian civilians to peacefully leave the village.  He was sent to the

 7     basement of a nearby house along with large numbers of other Albanian

 8     civilians where they were kept at gunpoint, both inside and outside of

 9     the house.  Mr. Mazrekaj describes the terrible conditions at that house

10     and the serious violence and looting that was visited on himself and on

11     other civilians.  He also explains how the men were separated from the

12     women and that he saw that the village itself was being set on fire.

13             He describes how the next day police directed them to leave on

14     tractors, leading them along and then directing them to go towards

15     Albania.  Mr. Mazrekaj escaped eventually making his way back to Isniq

16     where he rejoined his family.  Serb forces then began shelling Isniq and

17     they fled to Albania.  En route police were stopping people and taking

18     their documents and identification.  Mr. Mazrekaj stayed in Albania with

19     his family for three months and returned to Kosovo on the

20     28th of June, 1999.

21             That ends the summary, Your Honours.

22             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

23             MR. BEHAR:

24        Q.   Sir, I do have some brief clarification questions for you in the

25     limited time that we have.  You begin to describe the events of 1999 at

Page 3840

 1     page 4 of your statement in the second last paragraph and you describe

 2     that on the 27th of March the villagers gathered in the centre of town.

 3     Can you tell us when the police arrived in your town that day and what,

 4     if anything, was communicated to you.

 5        A.   That day the police arrived at around 8.00 in the morning.

 6     Some -- they expelled some villagers and they ordered us to vacate the

 7     village as soon as we possibly could because of the NATO air-strikes they

 8     said.

 9        Q.   And was there any NATO bombing at that time that you observed?

10        A.   The NATO bombing started on the 24th of March.

11        Q.   And did you experience that in your village?

12        A.   That day, we left the village and took the road towards Beleg, in

13     order to go to Isniq village.  On the way, we had problems because the

14     main roads were blocked, so we had to pass through side-streets until we

15     reached Beleg village.

16        Q.   Right.  Just to clarify my last question, sir, I was just asking

17     if you experienced bombing yourself.  Was your town bombed by NATO that

18     you experienced?

19        A.   For the time we were there, it was not bombed.  We heard the roar

20     of bombing in the direction of Gjakove and some other villages.

21        Q.   Thank you.  You explained in your statement that you went twice

22     to a check-point in Carrabreg to speak to police there to arrange to get

23     people out of the village.  Can you just clarify for us, who was manning

24     that check-point and who was it that you spoke to?

25        A.   It is true that I went there two times.  I was together with some

Page 3841

 1     other villagers.  We failed to find an agreement with the police at the

 2     check-point in Carrabreg.  The leader of that check-point was

 3     Zoran Djurisic, a policeman of road traffic police at Decan municipality.

 4             The second time, I went together with the local police who were

 5     chosen by the police chief to defend our village in order for us to agree

 6     with them that they allow the population to pass through this

 7     check-point.  After we agreed, I returned to the village, but we couldn't

 8     go there because during that period the police constantly kept separating

 9     the women from men.  So we were afraid to go there through the -- that

10     check-point.  That's why we found -- we chose another route, to go to

11     Beleg village.

12        Q.   And do you explain in your statement that you left Drenoc with

13     the villagers - I know you've just explained that you avoided the police

14     check-points and went to Beleg - you describe in page 5 in the final

15     paragraph of your statement on that page that on the 28th of March,

16     around 1.30 p.m. or 2.00 p.m. the police came to the village.

17             Can you explain to us how many police came at this time, just a

18     rough estimate ?  Was it a large number or a small number?

19        A.   They came by the police car -- three, there were three of them.

20     One of them was from Peje, I don't recall his name; another one was

21     police driver; and the other was a Roma, police -- he was called Ahmet.

22        Q.   Now at page 6 of your statement in the fifth paragraph, you

23     describe going to talk to the police who were staying at Xhafer Zukaj's

24     house.  Can you tell us, were these the same police that you described

25     arriving just now?

Page 3842

 1        A.   No, they were not the same.  They were different.  They were

 2     different, those ones that were at Xhafer Zukaj's.

 3        Q.   So these police who were staying in Xhafer Zukaj's house, can you

 4     tell us how and when those police arrived?

 5        A.   They came at night on the 28th of March, in the evening, and

 6     entered the village of Beleg.  It was a large group, but there were also

 7     soldiers.  They were those of Arkan and Seselj who were settled in

 8     Felkisa [phoen] and Decan where it was children's kindergarten -- resort.

 9             THE INTERPRETER:  Correction.

10             MR. BEHAR:

11        Q.   And the people that you've described as being the forces of

12     Arkan and Seselj, can you explain to us what they looked like, what they

13     were -- how they were dressed?

14        A.   They had camouflage clothes.  They were painted -- their faces

15     were painted.  They had their own vehicles.  They had police, army,

16     tanks, vehicles.  Beleg was full of them.

17        Q.   Just so I'm clear, when you're describing the vehicles, was it

18     only these forces you just described, these paramilitary forces, that had

19     vehicles, or did the police have vehicles as well ?  Could you tell?

20        A.   There were police vehicles, military vehicles.  You could see

21     only the barrels directed towards us; after they took us out of the

22     basement we could see that.  So these vehicles had the colours of the

23     army and the police; namely, they were blue and green.

24        Q.   You described in your statement going to the police and asking

25     them for permission to leave the village, and you describe how they sent

Page 3843

 1     you instead into a basement in a nearby house.  Can you describe for this

 2     Court what the conditions were like for you and for other people in the

 3     basement?

 4        A.   That morning, some villagers came from Beleg, from my village, to

 5     ask us to go to the police in order to ask their permission for us to go

 6     from Beleg to Isniq village.  When we went there, the police told us,

 7     Come here.  We talked with them.  They said, After five minutes you have

 8     to go to this house.  When we went to that house, in the basement, we

 9     found some families, women, children, old people.  It was a horrible

10     situation because the basement and the house were not finished.  They

11     were in the course of construction.

12             From there you could see what was going on outside.  We could see

13     the barrels of the guns.  Children and women started to cry.  In the

14     meantime, other families were being brought in.  There I recognised a

15     policeman.  He was from Gjakova.  I addressed him, and he said to me --

16     he said, I am not the one that you think I am, but I knew him very well.

17     I only didn't remember his name.

18             So the basement was constantly being filled in with people, with

19     new people.

20        Q.   Thank you for that explanation, sir.  Can you explain to us, was

21     it crowded and how many people were in that basement with you?

22        A.   When I initially went there, there were about 20 persons, but the

23     number kept increasing until there was no more room for people to stay in

24     there.  So people were staying around the basement, outside, but

25     surrounded by police.

Page 3844

 1        Q.   Sir, at page 7 of your statement, you described being beaten

 2     quite badly by Zoran Djurisic, and you use the -- I'll just quote from

 3     your statement.  You say:

 4             "Zoran would hit me once and other paramilitaries would hit me

 5     back."

 6             I wanted to clarify with you, was Zoran a police or did he look

 7     like part of a paramilitary?  Can you explain what forces Zoran was part

 8     of?

 9        A.   I know Zoran very well.  In 1978 he was a student in the high

10     school where I was teaching, then he went to another school, to the

11     police school in Vushtrri.  After finishing that school, he started

12     working in the police station in Decan as a policeman -- as a road

13     police, traffic police.

14        Q.   So were there other people there who you would describe as

15     paramilitary who were beating you at that time, as you described?

16        A.   Most of them were policemen.  In the front ranks there was

17     Zoran Djurisic who took away a child I was holding and started to kick

18     me -- to beat me, to hit me with blows and with the rifle-butt.  So --

19     until I fainted.

20        Q.   Thank you, sir.

21             MR. BEHAR:  Your Honours, I think this may be a good time for the

22     morning break.

23             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you, Mr. Behar.

24             We must now have the first break which will be for half an hour,

25     and we resume at 11.00.  You'll understand we have an adjournment now.

Page 3845

 1     The court officer will take you to a waiting-room and we continue at

 2     11.00.  Thank you.  We now adjourn.

 3                           --- Recess taken at 10.32 a.m.

 4                           --- On resuming at 11.02 a.m.

 5             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

 6             Mr. Behar.

 7             MR. BEHAR:

 8        Q.   Yes, sir, if we could pick up again where we left off earlier.

 9     You described at page 7 of your statement that the local Albanian

10     policemen were also held together with you and that they were disarmed

11     and beaten as well.  My question for you is:  Can you tell us who those

12     Albanian policemen that you described were?

13        A.   Yes.  The local Albanian policemen were from my village.  They

14     were two brothers, Shaban and Ali Kadrijaj.  They were from Drenoc

15     village.

16        Q.   And can you describe for us, sir, who was beating them?

17        A.   The police that were there, that had surrounded us.  They set

18     them aside, took their badges, and also their weapons that once they

19     issued to them in the past.

20        Q.   You mentioned earlier in your statement a person named

21     Male Vishaj and you described him as "a Serb collaborator."  Can you

22     explain to us, to the Court, what you meant by that term, "Serb

23     collaborator"?

24        A.   Male was from Beleg village.  He was an activist in the past, and

25     he was friends with the chief of the police in Decan.  He promised to us

Page 3846

 1     that nothing was going to happen to us in Beleg.

 2        Q.   So when you say "collaborator," was it just that he was someone

 3     who had good relations with the Serbs; is that fair?  Or how would you

 4     best describe that?

 5        A.   He got -- he was in good relations with the Serbs.  He worked in

 6     the water-supply company there, and he had many Serb acquaintances.

 7        Q.   Sir, can you tell us what happened to Male Vishaj?

 8        A.   Male was also beaten by them.  They removed his ring from his

 9     finger and returned the ring to him later on.

10        Q.   You described at page 8 of your statement - this is in the fourth

11     paragraph - that you saw that the village was set on fire.  Can you

12     explain to us what it was that you saw?

13        A.   When the war started at around 9.00 they started to torch the

14     houses, especially the most beautiful houses, those that were not

15     finished completely, they were not that -- quite damaged; but the others

16     were and they set fire to them.

17        Q.   I believe you also made some observations about seeing fires --

18     the setting of fires when you were being held in the room of the house.

19     Is that accurate and can you explain what you saw then?

20        A.   The houses around the place where we were were all on fire, in

21     flames.

22        Q.   Can you tell us where you made those observations from?

23        A.   In the house, the basement that was mentioned earlier.

24        Q.   And so could you see out from the basement where you were to see

25     those fires?

Page 3847

 1        A.   The basement was not finished completely.  It was open upstairs,

 2     but later on we were taken outside by them, and you could clearly see

 3     that the whole village was burning.

 4        Q.   Thank you, sir.  Moving ahead a little bit, you explained at

 5     page 9 of your statement that in the morning a policeman came and told

 6     you to put women and children on tractors and to leave Beleg.  Can you

 7     tell us how many people left that way?

 8        A.   That morning, the policeman came to the place where we were, he

 9     came to the second floor, and he said to us, Whoever has a tractor should

10     collect the people and head towards Decan.  There were many people there,

11     children, women, and so on.  On the 30th, they separated the youths and

12     only the elderly, the women, and the children were allowed to get on the

13     tractors and move towards Decan.  They had to follow a field road that

14     was going towards Gjakova and Decan.

15             When we arrived at the tractors, there was police presence, there

16     was -- there were Pinzgauers.  When we arrived at Carrabreg, they told us

17     to go back into the direction of Gjakova and proceed towards Albania.

18        Q.   Okay.  And, sir, perhaps you could explain that to us a little

19     bit.  Can you tell us who told you to go to Albania and how it was

20     communicated?

21        A.   The policemen; I don't know their names.  We didn't know at that

22     time that we were going to Albania.  We were told initially that we were

23     going to Decan, but when we arrived at Carrabreg, there we were told to

24     go in the direction of Gjakove and from there towards Albania.

25        Q.   And I know you described escaping, and I'll have a question for

Page 3848

 1     you about that in a moment.  But at the time that you were still with the

 2     group, could you make any observations about the police?  Were they

 3     accompanying people as they went to Albania or how were the police

 4     positioned?

 5        A.   When we arrived at Carrabreg, they told us to take the road

 6     towards Gjakova.  The road was full of police and vehicles and

 7     Pinzgauers.  The check-points that I passed through on the second

 8     location -- second occasion, because on the first occasion I got off and

 9     went to look for my family, that was in Beleg.  I got off the tractor and

10     Zekije Nitaj from my village started to drive the tractor in the

11     direction of Albania.  Myself I got off the tractor and through the

12     fields I walked towards Beleg.

13        Q.   Thank you, sir.  And you explained, I know, in your statement

14     that after you escaped, you eventually made your way to Isniq.  You then

15     described the Serbs shelling Isniq.  Can you tell us when it was that the

16     Serbs shelled Isniq?

17        A.   It's Isniq not Irzniq.  I arrived in Isniq the following day.  I

18     remained there for two days.  It's when the shelling started.  There was

19     so many people there.  The whole village was filled with people.  The

20     fields around were filled with people.  People from the villages of that

21     municipality had all gathered there.  The shelling was ongoing.  Strellc

22     was shelled and the villages around that area, they were shelling from

23     the location called Podi i Geshtenjane then Suku i Biteshit and other

24     positions occupied by the Serb police and military forces.  Therefore, we

25     were forced to leave this village too and head towards Albania.

Page 3849

 1        Q.   Can you tell us if you are aware of any interactions with the

 2     police or police authorities in Isniq?

 3        A.   It was a huge crowd of people.  The police in Decan issued the

 4     order to the police there that we had to leave that area, the chief of

 5     the police in the police station in Decan, Buda --

 6             THE INTERPRETER:  The interpreter didn't get the last name.

 7             MR. BEHAR:

 8        Q.   Sir, can you just -- I think we had a problem with the

 9     interpretation - just repeat the last name.  So the chief of the police

10     at the police station in Decan and then we missed the last name --

11        A.   Vukmir was his name known as Vula [Realtime transcript read in

12     error, "Bula"] and his last name was Mircic.

13        Q.   Thank you.  So you just described in your last answer that the

14     police in Decan issued the order that you had to leave, and then you

15     mentioned something about the chief of police.  Can you explain again for

16     us what it was that the chief of police did?

17        A.   I personally didn't talk to him, but the villagers from Isniq and

18     the leaders in the village told us that we had to leave the village and

19     head towards Albania.

20        Q.   And did the leaders of the village speak to the chief of police?

21     Is that what you're saying?

22        A.   It was a huge crowd of people that we joined and people kept

23     joining this convoy of people leaving Isniq towards Albania.

24        Q.   Okay.  Just to reiterate my question, maybe it's not coming

25     through clearly.  I'm just trying to understand your earlier answer, and

Page 3850

 1     I think there were some problems with the interpretation.  Were there

 2     conversations with the chief of police that were communicated to you; and

 3     if so, can you explain those?

 4        A.   When we joined the convoy, we were told that he had instructed

 5     some leaders, local policemen.

 6        Q.   When you say "he," you mean the chief of police had instructed

 7     some leaders?

 8        A.   Yes, Vula.

 9        Q.   And what did he instruct them to do?

10        A.   He had instructed them to tell all the families there to leave

11     the village and head towards Albania.

12        Q.   Thank you, sir.  I think that's clear.  And can you tell us how

13     you came to know that?

14        A.   Well, everybody left towards Albania.  We joined that convoy.

15     Everybody from every village in the municipality was there.

16             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Djurdjic.

17             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I believe that this

18     is really beyond 92 bis now, a completely new topic has been opened now

19     which did not feature in the Milutinovic trial or in the statement.  I

20     did not want to interrupt earlier, but there were have been already

21     questions of that kind.

22             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Behar.

23             MR. BEHAR:  Thank you, Your Honours.  I appreciate the objection.

24     I think I ended up spending a lot more time on that than I intended.  I

25     was just trying to clarify the answer.  I don't have any more questions

Page 3851

 1     about that area, but I wanted to make sure that we had the answer clear.

 2        Q.   Sir, the final area of my questioning.  You said that -- you say

 3     at the end of your statement that:

 4             "They took our documents and IDs in the Gjakova bridge called

 5     Ura e Shejte," [sic] I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing that right, it's

 6     S-h-e-j-t-e.  Can I ask you, sir, who was it who took the documents from

 7     your group?

 8        A.   The documents and IDs were taken from us on the Ura e Shenjte

 9     bridge on the bridge in the direction of Gjakova.  Whoever had money left

10     on them, that money was also taken by the police that was positioned

11     there near the Ura e Shenjte at Kodra e Shenjte; however, some documents

12     were taken away from us the following day when we were at the border.

13        Q.   Can you tell us, sir, did they take documents from you

14     particularly?

15        A.   They didn't take my documents.  I removed them from my pockets

16     because I knew they were going to take them away.  I hid them in the

17     tractor, in the hay in the tractor.

18        Q.   And did you see the police taking documents from others?

19        A.   Could you please repeat your question?

20        Q.   Sure.  I was just asking if you had seen the police taking

21     documents from other people.

22        A.   Yes, I saw that with my own eyes.

23        Q.   And can you explain who the other people were that you saw them

24     taking documents from?  You don't have to give the names, but were they

25     the people that were with you?  Were they farther away?  If you could

Page 3852

 1     just tell that to the Court.

 2        A.   They took the documents from my father, mother, wife, and other

 3     co-villagers that were on the same tractor with us.

 4        Q.   Thank you very much, sir.  Those are my questions for you.

 5             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

 6             Mr. Djurdjic.

 7             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

 8                           Cross-examination by Mr. Djurdjic:

 9        Q.   [Interpretation] Good morning, Mr. Mazrekaj.  I'm

10     Veljko Djurdjic --

11        A.   Good afternoon.

12        Q.   -- member of the Defence team for the accused,

13     Vlastimir Djordjevic, with the assistance of Ms. Marie O'Leary, also

14     member of our team.  I have a few questions for you.  If a question is

15     not clear to you, please let me know.  I'll try to rephrase it.  I'd like

16     to start from your evidence given earlier today and some discrepancies

17     I've noted.

18             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I would like to ask for

19     Exhibit P676 to be displayed on the screen, that's the transcript from

20     the Milutinovic trial, page 5838, line 10 through 12.  5838, please.

21        Q.   Witness, you have just said that at one of the bridges, documents

22     were not taken away from you because you've -- you had hidden them, and

23     here in the Milutinovic trial it says:

24             "Q.  ... did you turn over any documents that day?

25             "A.  No.  I did not have any documents on me that day, so I

Page 3853

 1     didn't hand anything over."

 2        A.   It is true that I said that.  The reference was not made only to

 3     IDs or passports.  It was a pile of documents, diplomas, certificates,

 4     that had taken -- been taken away at other check-points.  The documents,

 5     these diplomas, certificates, these were the ones that I hid.

 6        Q.   Just tell me, is this quotation correct:

 7             "A.  No.  I did not have any documents on me, so I didn't hand

 8     anything over."

 9             Is that correct?

10        A.   I did hear the readback of the transcript, and I heard that

11     during the trial, that's why I mentioned at the outset that the

12     interpretation was very bad during that trial.  It was in B/C/S and I

13     only wish that I had received interpretation in Albanian at that time.

14        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Mazrekaj.  Let's move on.  Earlier today, speaking

15     of Istinic village, you said that the chief of SUP Decani gave an order

16     and spoke to the population of Isniq village, saying that they had to go

17     to Albania and you said they related this to you and you said a lot of

18     things.

19             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we display page 5813 from

20     the Milutinovic transcript.

21        Q.   Please look at lines 9 through 13.

22             "A.  I remember that day very well.  I left the convoy and went

23     to look for my relatives, my family.  On the 30th, I arrived at Istinic

24     and joined my family.  On the 30th, shelling started, so we had to leave

25     en masse, all the inhabitants that were in Isniq at the time ...  had to

Page 3854

 1     go towards Albania."

 2             Is this correct?

 3        A.   On the 30th - it's a mistake there - this is the first exit --

 4     the first time when we left Beleg; the second time is in Isniq, not the

 5     30th.  We left Isniq two days later.

 6        Q.   Thank you.  May I conclude that it was a misinterpretation?

 7        A.   Most probably.  This is what I keep saying.  I should have

 8     received interpretation in Albanian, not in B/C/S, so that I could

 9     explain things better.

10        Q.   Thank you.

11             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can I now call up 5836, lines 7

12     through 17.

13        Q.   In response to the question:

14             "Q.  And now, when you went to Isniq to be with your family and

15     then decided to leave for Albania, am I correct that at that point in

16     time there were no policeman present who ordered you or otherwise told

17     you to go to Albania, were there?"

18             You answered:

19             "A.  There was a very large group of people in Isniq from

20     different villages, and shelling started from Strellc, so from the

21     western part of Isniq and from Podi i Geshtenjane.  So the villagers said

22     we had to leave and all of us took the way towards Albania."

23             And then the question:

24             "Q.  And there were no policemen present at that time in the

25     village when the villagers told you to leave and when you left for

Page 3855

 1     Albania?"

 2             Your answer:

 3             "A.  I did not see them."

 4             Was this correctly interpreted?

 5        A.   When the shelling started, it started from the direction of

 6     Podi i Geshtenjane.  They shelled Strellc.  The principal of the school,

 7     Nazif Ferizaj [phoen], was killed.  The police was there on the road from

 8     Decan -- Peje-Decan road and the houses were being burned.  That's why we

 9     had to leave Isniq and head towards Albania.

10        Q.   Mr. Mazrekaj, I read back to you this portion of the transcript.

11     Now please tell me, was it correctly interpreted or not?

12        A.   In Serbian it was not correctly translated.

13        Q.   Just one last question relating to this.  For the first time

14     today you mentioned the chief of the SUP in Decani.  You mentioned

15     policemen and you did not mention any policemen or this conversation with

16     the villagers, you didn't mention it in your -- in your testimony in

17     Milutinovic nor in this 2004 statement.  How do you explain that?

18        A.   It's known to everyone, Vula was the chief of the police for

19     Decan community for 60.000 inhabitants.  Vula was the one who, together

20     with the police, drove us out of our homes, of our work.  You know, they

21     dismissed us.  So he was the one who called on the Decane population to

22     leave.

23        Q.   Mr. Mazrekaj, you are a teacher and you can understand my

24     question well, so please answer my question.  For the first time today

25     you mentioned this chief of Decani police, this Vuleta Mircic, and for

Page 3856

 1     the first time, you've mentioned that the police told any of the

 2     villagers that they need to go to Albania and that this -- and that that

 3     was the reason why you headed for Albania.  Why did you fail to mention

 4     that in the Milutinovic case when you testified here under oath and why

 5     was it missing from your 2004 statement?  Please just explain that; if

 6     you cannot explain, we can just move on.  There is no contest as to who

 7     was the chief of police in Decani.

 8        A.   It is a fact that I didn't mention it because we had more

 9     dealings with the chiefs of the cross -- check-points, but everybody knew

10     that he was leading the police who was number one among them.  I have

11     left out many things in my statement because what happened in Decan was a

12     rare event in Kosova.  I tried to include in it many things, but not

13     everything because I really regret that many of them are not yet here in

14     this Tribunal because we in our village have lost 171 persons.

15        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Mazrekaj.  You said today --

16             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I just need to

17     explain something so that we can follow this more easily.  The

18     statement -- the 2002 statement, I marked paragraphs 1 through 65, and

19     for each of these paragraph numbers I will mention the page in English

20     and also in the Albanian version so that we can follow this more easily,

21     and that's how I also prepared my notes here.

22             THE INTERPRETER:  Interpreter's correction:  2000 statement, the

23     statement from 2000.

24             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation].

25        Q.   Now, Witness, you've told us today - and this is in paragraph 61,

Page 3857

 1     in the English version this will be on page 10, and in Albanian it's also

 2     on page 10 - you've told us today that you were ordered to go to

 3     Djakovica and then on to Albania.  And in your 2000 statement you say:

 4             "On the way to Decani I realised that we were being sent towards

 5     Djakovica, so I stopped to see my family."

 6             So you never said at any point there that anyone had ordered you

 7     to do so; this was your conclusion, rather.

 8        A.   I went to look for my family on the 30th.  I left the convoy when

 9     we left Beleg.  So it's not what you are putting to me, as what -- as you

10     are saying now.

11        Q.   Would you please read this portion:

12             "On the way to Decani I realised that we were being directed

13     towards Djakovica ..."

14             Please read that portion if you can.  You can see it on the

15     screen.

16        A.   The road to Gjakove is the road to Albania.  You have to change

17     that.  That is the direction towards Albania.

18        Q.   Thank you.  All right.  We'll change that.  Now, in

19     paragraph 36 - in English that's page 11, the fifth paragraph from the

20     top; and in the Albanian version that will be on page 6, the fourth

21     paragraph from the top - Mr. Mazrekaj, - and I'm referring to this

22     portion:

23             "A group of villagers arrived and we went to discuss ..."

24             So today for the first time you mention Arkan's and Seselj's men.

25     Up until now I've noticed that there was no mention of them.  You never

Page 3858

 1     mentioned them or described them.  You did mention paramilitary units and

 2     you described what they were and this was in your testimony in the

 3     Milutinovic trial, but you never mentioned Seselj's and Arkan's men.

 4        A.   That's true because when we were in Beleg on the 29th and

 5     the 30th, we couldn't tell them from one another.  But now and again I

 6     fainted because of being badly beaten.  And I recall that they were

 7     situated in the children's resort house in Decan and then they came and

 8     surrounded Beleg.

 9        Q.   Thank you.  And you remembered to mention that today?

10        A.   [B/C/S interpretation] No, not today.  I've said this before

11     already.  No.

12        Q.   All right, we can move on.  Now I would like to ask you when you

13     went to Crnobreg for the first time to ask whether you may go to Isniq,

14     could you just tell me, what was the village -- the name of the village

15     that you said you were going to?

16        A.   [Albanian interpretation] Isniq, I went to Carrabreg to ask the

17     police at the check-point to allow us to pass through the check-point and

18     not be obliged to take the side-streets and walk through the fields.

19        Q.   Thank you, so Isniq.  Now please tell us who was in the car with

20     you when you went to Crnobreg for the first time to ask whether you would

21     be allowed to pass?

22        A.   I was there two times.  Are you asking me about the first or the

23     second time?

24        Q.   I mean the first time when you went there by car.

25        A.   During the first time was Zenel Zogaj [as interpreted].

Page 3859

 1             THE INTERPRETER:  Could you ask him to repeat the name of the

 2     person, please?

 3             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

 4        Q.   Thank you.  There was no one else?

 5        A.   The second time there were other people, but I wasn't interested

 6     in them.  We were in Zoran's car.

 7             THE INTERPRETER:  Correction.

 8             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Zoran took our car, he confiscated

 9     it.

10             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

11        Q.   Thank you.  No, I only asked about the first time.  Now let's

12     move on.  You've told us today - and this is in paragraph 23 of your

13     statement, in English that's on page 4 and in Albanian it is also on page

14     4 - in this paragraph you say:

15             "On the 27th March, 1999, around 8.30, I went out and saw the

16     villagers who had gathered in the centre.  Four families from the village

17     of Sllup came to our village.  Local Albanian policemen told us not to

18     leave the village because nothing would happen to us."

19             And today you told us that some policemen came and told you that

20     because of bombing you had to leave the village.

21        A.   I think it's clear.  The policemen who came to tell us to leave

22     the village were from Decan police station.  Those who told us to stay in

23     the village were our co-villagers, local police.  They thought that they

24     were charged with a very noble function, to save us from the Serbs, but

25     that was in vain.

Page 3860

 1        Q.   But in your statement you only mention four families from the

 2     Slup village --

 3        A.   [B/C/S interpretation] No, not four families but 37 people and it

 4     is clearly stated there.  I have it in my brief-case here.

 5        Q.   Well, I think here it is very clear in your statement.  It says

 6     on the 27th of May -- March, but let's move on.  We can see what's

 7     written there and the Trial Chamber will assess this.

 8             Mr. Mazrekaj, tell me, please, who did you stay with in Drenoc in

 9     1999 or who did you live with in Drenoc in 1999, in March?

10        A.   [Albanian interpretation] You are asking me about my family or

11     about the other villagers?

12        Q.   No, I'm asking about your family.

13        A.   With my wife, my mother, and my father.

14        Q.   Thank you.  Tell me, please, did you live in a joint household or

15     were these separate families -- separate households?

16        A.   That's my house.  I was born there, I was grown up there, it's

17     not an alien house, it's my house.

18        Q.   Thank you.  If I am right, you also had a brother.  Did he live

19     with you in the same house?

20        A.   Even today we live together, but at the time he used to work in

21     Peje.  He is a well-known person, he is a surgeon.

22        Q.   Thank you.  Tell me, please, your family property, the house that

23     you had and the courtyard around it, was it fenced off with a wall?

24        A.   No, not all of it.

25        Q.   Thank you.  Which part was fenced off?

Page 3861

 1        A.   Only the upper part, but there were no gates.  The other part was

 2     fenced off with a wooden fence, then there were the stairs.  Two times

 3     the police and the army settled in my house.

 4        Q.   Thank you.  How high was the fence, or rather, the wall?

 5        A.   [B/C/S interpretation] Well, I didn't measure them.  [Albanian

 6     interpretation] In some places 4 metres, in some places 2 metres.  They

 7     destroyed the house and final they set fire to it.

 8        Q.   Thank you.  Could you please tell us on what material was the

 9     wall built on.

10        A.   The first floor was made of stone, the second floor was made of

11     bricks.

12        Q.   Thank you.  And what about the wall, the wall around?

13        A.   In the upper part it was built of concrete blocks, on the western

14     part with wood, on the southern part there was the haystack and it was

15     also built with wooden planks.

16        Q.   Thank you.  You are familiar with the customs in the village in

17     that area.  Is it customary for the family properties to be walled-in, to

18     be fenced-off with walls, such as the one that you had?

19        A.   I don't understand what you are asking me about.  Can you please

20     repeat it?

21        Q.   Thank you.  In towns and also in villages in the area where you

22     lived, in Decani and in other villages, in other parts of the

23     country-side in Kosovo and Metohija, was it traditional to have walls

24     around the courtyard?

25        A.   The one who can afford to can fence -- can build a fence around

Page 3862

 1     the house.  There is not any custom that tells you to build a fence or

 2     not.  Whoever can afford does that.  It depends on the economic means.

 3        Q.   Thank you.  Could you please tell us, where did you graduate from

 4     university and when, with your major in geography?

 5        A.   I graduated in 1976 in Prishtina.  I graduated from the

 6     Faculty of Natural Sciences for Geography.

 7        Q.   Thank you.  I noticed in your statement that between 1981 and

 8     1985 you worked in Germany.  What type of jobs did you have there?

 9        A.   From 1991 [as interpreted] to 1985 I worked as a teacher in

10     Germany for four years.  I worked with the Albanian kids, teaching them

11     from the first grade to the high school.

12        Q.   Thank you.  Please tell us just exactly what years were you in

13     Germany from for the transcript.

14        A.   [B/C/S interpretation] From 1981 to 1985.  I can tell you either

15     in Serbian or in Albanian, you choose.

16        Q.   Thank you.  Tell me, please, were these state schools in Germany

17     where you taught Albanian children there?

18        A.   [Albanian interpretation]  It was kind of supplementary teaching

19     in Albanian.  We were simply complementing their programme.  It was done

20     for the Albanian population living in Germany.

21        Q.   Thank you.  But you were employed by -- who financed your

22     employment, the SFRY?

23        A.   It was -- I was financed by Kosova Community of Education plus a

24     part was financed by the German government.

25        Q.   Thank you.  When you returned from Germany, did you start working

Page 3863

 1     in a state school in Decani?

 2        A.   They had kept my place of work in this high school called

 3     Brothers Frasheri in Decan.  I returned and resumed to work immediately

 4     until 1991 when we were dismissed together with 135 teachers and 2.550

 5     students.  And then after that, we continued teaching in private homes,

 6     make-shift facilities, in villages that the villagers made available for

 7     us.  They drove us away from schools.  And this school, which was in an

 8     area of 5.200 square metres, was used only for 36 students of Montenegrin

 9     ethnicity.

10        Q.   Thank you.  After 1990 were you a member of a political party?

11        A.   I used to be a member of the political party of Ibrahim Rugova,

12     LDK.

13        Q.   Thank you.  Were you an official for your village or the Decani

14     municipality?

15        A.   I was never an official.  I was simply a professor in my village.

16     I have taken care of my village.  After the first offensive, I had 520

17     members in my village.  I took care of the 37 members of Sllup family.  I

18     took care of them to provide as much assistance as I could to them.

19        Q.   Thank you.  Is it fair to say that you were the elder of the

20     village?

21        A.   Could you please repeat?

22        Q.   Am I right in saying that you were the elder of the village?

23        A.   We didn't have that title in the village at the time.  We don't

24     have it now either.  Families remained in our village, children, elderly,

25     women, who needed help; and I tried to provide them with as much

Page 3864

 1     assistance as possible, distributed humanitarian aid to them, and

 2     protected them to the extent that I could.

 3        Q.   Thank you.  In paragraphs 6 and 7 of your statement you say that

 4     there were in the village six Serbian families and that they left in

 5     1998.  Did they later return?

 6        A.   It is true that these families, Montenegrin families, lived in my

 7     village.  Four of these families lived near the primary school; another

 8     house, the Zecevic -- Jovan Zecevic's family lived in my neighbourhood;

 9     and there was another family, Mijatovic family, who left the village very

10     early.  They left the village because of economic reasons.

11             When the war broke out, the other families left the village and

12     moved to apartments in Decan under the pretext of being able to protect

13     themselves better, but their aim was to appropriate apartments there.

14     They had no problems whatsoever from our side.  We looked after their

15     cattle and even when they came back from the town of Decan to tend to

16     their cattle in the village, we didn't cause them any harm.  They could

17     freely come back and return to Decan whenever they wanted.

18        Q.   Thank you.  In 1999, in March, were these families in the village

19     or not?

20        A.   Could you please repeat the question?

21        Q.   These Serbian families, were they in the village in March 1999

22     when the war began?

23        A.   They were in Decan.

24        Q.   Mr. Mazrekaj, in paragraph 8 - and we're still talking about

25     1998 - you talk about a hill called Podi i Geshtenjane, excuse my

Page 3865

 1     pronunciation.  Can you recognise what hill I'm talking about?

 2        A.   It is true that it is a forest there, but the area is called --

 3     the hill is called Podi i Geshtenjane.  That's where the police and the

 4     military were positioned together with their police and military

 5     artillery and equipment.  And from there they were shelling in the

 6     direction of our village.

 7        Q.   Thank you.  And where is that hill?

 8        A.   Podi i Geshtenjane is near the children resort north-west from

 9     Decan.

10        Q.   Thank you.  And how far is it from your village?

11        A.   From my village or from Decan?

12        Q.   From your village.

13        A.   [B/C/S interpretation] 3 kilometres or so.

14     [Albanian interpretation] Maybe more than that.

15        Q.   Is your village to the south of Decani?

16        A.   From Decan my village would be to the south-west of Decan.

17        Q.   And how many kilometres is it from your village to Decani?

18        A.   Three and a half kilometres approximately.

19        Q.   And from Decani to the hill?

20        A.   About 1 kilometre.  It's a hill just above Decan.

21        Q.   Were you able to see the artillery from your village?

22        A.   No, I didn't have binoculars.  It's a mountain, it's a forest,

23     and the name itself, Podi i Geshtenjane, indicates that.

24        Q.   Thank you.

25             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can I call up D002-4026.  Could we

Page 3866

 1     zoom in on the area of Decani.  Exactly.  Perhaps zoom in a little.

 2     That's Decani.

 3             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Here is Decan.

 4             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we zoom in once again so the

 5     witness can mark his village and some other villages I'm interested in.

 6     They're all on the map.

 7             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] This is Decan, here is Drenoc.

 8     Decan, Drenoc.

 9             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

10        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Mazrekaj.  This dot you marked, which place is

11     that?

12        A.   Just above Drenoc here is Lloqan, then you have Hulaj and then

13     Pobergje.

14        Q.   Thank you.  This is Locane which you marked in red?

15        A.   [B/C/S interpretation] Yes.

16        Q.   And that's on the other road going to Decani, the one going to

17     Junik, and Drenovci is on the other road?

18        A.   [Albanian interpretation] Yes, you're right that village is on

19     the road that takes you to Junik.

20        Q.   [Previous translation continues]...  thank you.  And this dot

21     where Drenovac is, could you put a circle around it and a number 1.

22        A.   I cannot see it clearly, Drenoc, because Lloqan and Drenoc seem

23     to share the same dot.

24        Q.   [Previous translation continues]...  never mind.

25             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Let the image remain, please.

Page 3867

 1        Q.   Mr. Mazrekaj, you cannot orient yourself on this map and mark it

 2     precisely, but let the map stay so that at least the rest of us can see

 3     the places marked there.

 4             Mr. Mazrekaj, how did you find out that the air-strikes started?

 5        A.   I saw that from my village, the shells landing in the direction

 6     of my village and other villages, Hulaj, Pobergje, and other villages

 7     from Podi i Geshtenjane.  There was uninterrupted shelling.

 8        Q.   When was that, if you know?

 9        A.   On the 29th of May, when Decan was bombed for the first time.

10        Q.   Thank you.  You're talking about 1998, whereas I'm asking you

11     about 1999.  How did you find out that the war began in March 1999?

12        A.   I was in the village when the war began.

13        Q.   Thank you.  Is it correct that you did not see this incident when

14     Locane was set on fire?

15        A.   Lloqan is 1 kilometre far from my village.  The village is

16     situated on the south-western part.  To the north of the village we could

17     not move freely because of the police orders of the time.  I was in my

18     home, and it was impossible to observe what was going on up there.

19     Therefore, I didn't know what was going on.

20        Q.   All right.  But with regard to paragraph 28, you've already told

21     me who was in the car with you.  But when you got to Crnobreg, you were

22     intercepted and stopped by the police.  And when you told them that there

23     were 520 families who wanted to go to Rznic [as interpreted] village,

24     they let you pass.  Is that correct?

25        A.   This was the second time that I went to Carrabreg to ask for

Page 3868

 1     permission.  They surrounded us immediately.  I asked Mr. Zoran kindly.

 2     I said to him, I'm here to ask you whether it would be possible for me

 3     and the 520 people in the village and the 37 people from Sllup to pass

 4     through here.  He said, Yes.  But when I returned in the village and

 5     spoke to the villagers, we realised that it was dangerous because there

 6     were many incidents when men were being separated from the women and the

 7     children, and that's why we didn't trust them.  We couldn't go through

 8     that check-point.

 9        Q.   I'm sorry.  Please don't hold it against me, but is it worth

10     putting perhaps the statement on the screen?  Would you be able to read

11     the statement from the screen so you can explain certain things more

12     easily.  If you can't read it then I won't ask for the statement to be

13     displayed, then we could move on.

14                           [Trial Chamber and Registrar confer]

15             JUDGE PARKER:  You want to retain this image on the screen?

16             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] No.

17             JUDGE PARKER:  Then we'll put it on the screen.

18             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] This image cannot be evidence.  If

19     I want to clarify something, I would ask for the witness's assistance.

20        Q.   Did you understand me, Mr. Mazrekaj?  Is it worth the trouble of

21     putting the statement in Albanian on the screen?  Would you be able to,

22     with your glasses, to read it?

23        A.   I have the hard copy of my statement here in my bag, but if you

24     want me to read, it I'll do my best to read it from the screen.

25        Q.   You know why?  I think because -- I think we are getting more and

Page 3869

 1     more confused.  When I say paragraph 27 or 28 that's page 5 in Serbian.

 2     That's the first time you were going to Beleg village and reaching the

 3     police check-point.  It's not the second time when you spoke to them

 4     about those 520 families.  That's the first time you were going to Beleg

 5     from your village.  Now I'd like to ask you:  Why did you not lead the

 6     villagers as you had agreed?

 7        A.   There was no agreement.  We all knew what was going to happen,

 8     and this happened later on, on the 30th, in Beleg.  We didn't trust the

 9     police.  That's why we didn't dare go through the check-point there at

10     Carrabreg.

11        Q.   The two of you who were going to inquire were allowed to return

12     by the police?

13        A.   They allowed us to return because we told them that we were going

14     to come back with the remaining population through that check-point.

15     They were ready to separate us from our women and children and to loot

16     us, and this is what happened with many other people.

17        Q.   Thank you.  Why then did you go to that check-point to inquire?

18        A.   Because we thought that they would behave properly towards us,

19     like humans, not like animals.

20        Q.   Thank you.  You go on to say in your statement that you went via

21     Prilep to Beleg village, and in that village the locals told you that

22     18 Serbian soldiers had been killed.  I'd like to ask you:  Were you told

23     where these Serbian soldiers were killed?

24        A.   No.  The villagers didn't say anything to us about this killing.

25     Zoran Djurisic told us about this.  He knew me very well.  He said to me,

Page 3870

 1     Professor, your students killed us at Pozhar village, and we don't even

 2     dare and go and collect the bodies in Pozhar.  He was the one who told me

 3     about this, not the population.

 4             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I'd like to see page 5 of the

 5     Albanian statement, please.  Page 5 of the English version, third

 6     paragraph from the bottom.

 7        Q.   To speed things up, please look at the screen while I read.

 8             "The locals of Beleg told us to stay because 18 Serbian soldiers

 9     had been killed and the roads were therefore blocked."

10             Is this statement accurate?

11        A.   This is what they knew.  They were informed about this.  The road

12     was blocked towards Lumbardh and Dashinoc and that's why we stopped at

13     Beleg that night because it was impossible to proceed.  We went to

14     different houses where we could find shelter and room for the night.

15        Q.   Please give me brief answers.  Did they tell you where the

16     soldiers had been killed or not?

17        A.   No, just that gun-fire was heard because there was a

18     confrontation with the KLA forces in Pozhar village.

19        Q.   Would you tell me if you know how the KLA came to be in Pozar

20     village?

21        A.   I don't know what happened there that night.  I wasn't there.  I

22     know that the villagers of Pozhar saw that.  The police then took the

23     anger out at the population, civilian population that lived in their own

24     houses in that village.

25        Q.   Thank you.  What is the KLA?

Page 3871

 1        A.   It is the Kosovo Liberation Army.

 2        Q.   What do you know about that army?

 3        A.   It was a liberation army of the state of Kosova, now state of

 4     Kosova, that fought for the rights of the Albanians in Kosova.

 5        Q.   Thank you.  How was this struggle by the KLA carried out?

 6        A.   They know best.  I didn't take part in that struggle.  They know

 7     best how they fought.

 8        Q.   Thank you.

 9             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I think this is the

10     time for the break.

11             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes, indeed.

12             We will have our second adjournment now and resume at 1.00.

13                           --- Recess taken at 12.30 p.m.

14                           --- On resuming at 1.03 p.m.

15             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes, Mr. Djurdjic.

16             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours.

17        Q.   Mr. Mazrekaj, you've said today that you were in another house,

18     in a different house, and not in Xhafer Zukaj's house.  In your 2000

19     statement in paragraphs 36, 39, 43, and 46 you mentioned the basement of

20     Xhafer Zukaj's house, and only later you say that in the evening or

21     toward the evening you moved to another house to the second floor, I

22     believe this was in paragraph 52 and 53 of your statement.

23             Now, what I don't understand now is - and please explain

24     it - when the police detained you that second time, didn't they keep you

25     in the basement in that house and wasn't all this happening in the

Page 3872

 1     situation where these police actually detained you, stopped you from

 2     going anywhere, or was it different?

 3        A.   The police didn't detain me from going to another place.  At

 4     Zukaj's house, the police were situated.  The military were around it.

 5     Beleg is not my village, it's another village; but I was informed that in

 6     the house which was not fully completed, constructed, that belonged to

 7     Rram Cenaj [phoen] where we were staying in that basement.  When they

 8     took us out, and in the evening when they put us in the second floor, to

 9     make it clear to you, we were not in the basement of Zukaj but in the

10     basement of Rram Cenaj's [phoen] house as far as I recall.

11        Q.   Thank you.  And now please tell us, this second time when you

12     travelled to Crnobreg from Beleg village, in other words you were in

13     Beleg, and then nine of you, and you were the tenth, set off for

14     Crnobreg.  How did you do this?

15        A.   It's not true that we went from Beleg to Carrabreg.  We went from

16     Drenoc to Carrabreg on the second time.  I don't think it's written in my

17     statement that we went from Beleg to Carrabreg.

18        Q.   So what you're saying is that after this second time when you

19     returned from Crnobreg, you actually went to Beleg?

20        A.   When I returned from Carrabreg I went to my own village.

21     Together with the other inhabitants, we set off for Beleg from Drenoc.

22        Q.   Mr. Mazrekaj, in paragraph 29 you say:  "When I arrived in

23     Drenoc," in other words that was on that first occasion when you returned

24     when you said that this Zoran was going to wait for you at the

25     check-point, you returned through Drenoc from Crnobreg and then via

Page 3873

 1     Prilep you went to Beleg and then you go on to talk about Beleg.  And

 2     then you say that the villagers - and this is in paragraph 36 - asked you

 3     and specifically Male Vishaj, Sheqer Mazrekaj, Shaban Idrizalaj,

 4     Shaban Nitaj, Ise Tolaj, Mehmet Tolaj, and Misin Tolaj that you were to

 5     go to Xhafer Zukaj's house.

 6        A.   Yes, we went that morning to ask the police where we could go

 7     from Beleg village with these people, which road to take to go to Isniq.

 8        Q.   Perhaps I didn't make myself clear, Mr. Mazrekaj.  On the first

 9     occasion you went by car with another person whose name you mentioned,

10     and this was described in paragraph 27 and paragraph 28 of your

11     statement.  And all these other nine or ten individuals that are named

12     who went to you on another occasion again to Xhafer Zukaj's house, this

13     is in paragraph 36.  Was that -- this what I was reading from the

14     statement correct or not, please just tell us.

15        A.   You have not understood correctly.  For the first and second time

16     I left from Drenoc for Carrabreg.  You are mixing up Beleg here.  I said

17     several times that we went that morning to inquire from the police to

18     let -- to ask them to allow us to leave the village because that was on

19     the 29th when we went.

20        Q.   Well, here in your statement in paragraph 32 mention is made of

21     Sunday, the 28th of March; and in paragraph 28, the portion that I read

22     the first time, you say that they let me return to the village and they

23     said that they would wait for us there.  And then paragraph 29:

24             "When I arrived in Drenoc, I told the villagers not to go through

25     Carrabreg because they would separate men from women and children.  That

Page 3874

 1     was the reason why we passed through the village of Prilep to go to the

 2     village of Beleg.  It was around 4.00 p.m. when we arrived in Beleg and

 3     there we were told about those 18 soldiers."

 4             Is that correct?

 5        A.   This happened on the 27th, when we arrived in Beleg, on the

 6     27th of March.

 7        Q.   But then in paragraph 31 you say:

 8             "Nothing happened that night in the village, but we could hear

 9     shooting in the surrounding villages."

10             And then in the next paragraph, paragraph 32, you say:

11             "On Sunday, the 28th of March, 1999, around 1.30 to 2.00 the

12     police forces came."

13        A.   The police came on the 28th to the village to check, to search

14     the village, and some Qazim Hulaj was killed from the Hulaj family of

15     Berber, and I didn't see him myself but he was killed.  He was buried in

16     Beleg.  We others managed to escape and to go to the houses where we

17     lived in Beleg.

18        Q.   Thank you.  Is it correct that your wife and your parents

19     remained in Adem Vishaj's house, as you state in paragraph 56 of your

20     statement and that Sadik Vishaj told you about it?

21        A.   Yes, that is correct.  That is where they stayed, my wife, my

22     father, mother, and a cousin of mine.

23        Q.   Thank you.  And were they in Beleg village, in this house of

24     Adem Vishaj's?

25        A.   They were at Adem Vishaj's home.  There was nowhere they could

Page 3875

 1     go, but Adem Vishaj's family was there too.

 2        Q.   Thank you.  Where is Adem Vishaj's house, in what village?

 3        A.   In Beleg.  Where else?

 4        Q.   Thank you.  And where is Xhafer Zukaj's house?

 5        A.   In Beleg too.

 6        Q.   Thank you.  Thank you, Mr. Mazrekaj.  I have no further questions

 7     for you.

 8             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours.  My cross

 9     is complete.

10             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you, Mr. Djurdjic.

11             Mr. Behar.

12             MR. BEHAR:  Yes.  Thank you, Your Honours.  Just very briefly by

13     way of re-examination.

14                           Re-examination by Mr. Behar:

15        Q.   Sir, I just wanted to clear something up with respect to the

16     chief of police.  You gave us the name of the chief of police earlier in

17     your testimony.  I notice at page 33 of the transcript it was recorded as

18     Bula, B-u-l-a, and I know that in cross-examination it was recorded as

19     Vula, the nickname.  Can you tell us which is correct, which is -- which

20     is the name that you used?

21        A.   The correct name of the chief is Vukmir, Vula is the pseudonym,

22     Mircic is the last name.

23        Q.   And that's Vula with a V then?

24        A.   Vula is his pseudonym, Vula, yes.

25        Q.   Thank you.

Page 3876

 1             MR. BEHAR:  Those are all my questions, Your Honours.

 2                           [Trial Chamber confers]

 3             JUDGE PARKER:  You'll be pleased to know that concludes the

 4     questioning for you.  The Chamber is conscious that you've been to

 5     The Hague more than once.  We are grateful that you've been able to come

 6     this further time to assist us.  We have your evidence, your statement,

 7     and your previous transcript of evidence, and we will weigh all of that

 8     in due course.  So we thank you, and you may of course now return to your

 9     normal activities, and the court officer will assist you.  Thank you.

10             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I want to thank you and wish you

11     success in your work, and I wish that you are fair in your judgement.

12                           [The witness withdrew]

13                           [Trial Chamber confers]

14             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Behar.

15             MR. BEHAR:  Yes.  Your Honours, I'm going to be asking if we

16     could begin with Mr. Shaqiri, who's our next witness, on the next day.  I

17     have spoken with Mr. Neuner, who is leading Mr. Shaqiri.  I understand

18     there is some new material that's been provided that has just now been

19     provided to the Defence.  I understand that we do anticipate making an

20     application to add that material to our exhibit list, and of course the

21     Defence should have time to review it.  I note there's about 25 minutes,

22     but I would be making that request.

23             JUDGE PARKER:  Can we assume there'll be no difficulty completing

24     his evidence tomorrow?

25             MR. BEHAR:  I don't believe so.  If I could just have a moment's

Page 3877

 1     indulgence.

 2                           [Prosecution counsel confer]

 3             MR. BEHAR:  Yeah, I certainly don't anticipate any issues from

 4     our standpoint, and I don't know about the length of cross-examination,

 5     but I expect that he should be able to finish tomorrow.

 6             JUDGE PARKER:  You're listed for about half an hour.

 7             MR. BEHAR:  So we certainly shouldn't run the whole day.

 8             JUDGE PARKER:  Well you shouldn't.

 9             Mr. Djurdjic, do you have any problem with the proposal to

10     commence the final witness for this week tomorrow, and do you foresee any

11     problem with completing the evidence tomorrow?

12             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I don't foresee any

13     problems to finish with this witness tomorrow.  Whether there will be

14     some problems with the additional material, that remains to be seen, but

15     I leave it up to you to decide on the request made by the Prosecution.

16     But we certainly will complete our cross-examination tomorrow.

17                           [Trial Chamber confers]

18             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Behar, the Chamber is becoming increasingly

19     concerned that we need to keep the case moving, and you will recall, no

20     doubt, that only earlier this week we were not prepared to finish early

21     on one day.  In this case, however, we note that your reason is that

22     there is to be notice of additional material to the Defence and there may

23     be a motion for the addition of material to your exhibits.  In that

24     situation, we think that we can, therefore, grant your request and

25     adjourn now.  It will not be the practice of the Tribunal to be doing

Page 3878

 1     that in this trial, but we will on this occasion.  And we do so in the

 2     expectation that the evidence will undoubtedly conclude tomorrow.

 3             So we now adjourn.

 4                           --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.22 p.m.,

 5                           to be reconvened on Wednesday, the 29th day of

 6                           April, 2009, at 9.00 a.m.