Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 4599

 1                           Monday, 18 May 2009

 2                           [Open session]

 3                           [The accused entered court]

 4                           --- Upon commencing at 2.17 p.m.

 5             JUDGE PARKER:  Good afternoon.  Ms. Gopalan, the next witness is

 6     ready?

 7             MS. GOPALAN:  Yes, he is, Your Honours.  The next witness is

 8     Mr. Hazir Berisha, and his evidence will be relevant to paragraphs 25

 9     to 32 of the indictment.

10             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

11                           [The witness entered court]

12                           WITNESS:  HAZIR ISUF BERISHA

13                           [Witness answered through interpreter]

14             JUDGE PARKER:  Good afternoon.  Would you please read aloud the

15     affirmation shown to you on the card.

16             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will

17     speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

18             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.  Please sit down.  Ms. Gopalan has some

19     questions for you.

20                           Examination by Ms. Gopalan:

21             MS. GOPALAN:  Thank you, Your Honours.

22        Q.   Good afternoon, Mr. Berisha.

23        A.   Good afternoon.

24        Q.   Could you please state your full name.

25        A.   Hazir Isuf Berisha.

Page 4600

 1        Q.   What is your date of birth, Mr. Berisha?

 2        A.   December 17th, 1960.

 3        Q.   Where were you born, Mr. Berisha?

 4        A.   I was born in Qyshk village.

 5        Q.   And where do you live now?

 6        A.   In the same village.

 7        Q.   Thank you.  Mr. Berisha, did you give a statement to the

 8     Office of the Prosecutor of this Tribunal in May 2008?

 9        A.   Yes.

10        Q.   And have you recently had the opportunity to review the statement

11     recently?

12        A.   Not before I came here.  No.  Not before coming here.

13        Q.   Did you have an opportunity to review the statement upon coming

14     to the Tribunal?

15        A.   In English.

16        Q.   And having reviewed the statement, I understand that you had a

17     number of corrections to make to it, mainly to certain figures and

18     numbers mentioned.  I'm going to take you to -- through these

19     corrections.

20             MS. GOPALAN:  I'd like to call up 65 ter 05123, and with

21     Your Honours' leaves, may I provide the witness with a hard copy of his

22     statement in Albanian to assist him with the correction process.

23             JUDGE PARKER:  Indeed.

24             MS. GOPALAN:

25        Q.   Mr. Berisha, in paragraph 25, page 4, of your statement, you say

Page 4601

 1     that there were maybe 50 or 60 men and approximately 240 women and

 2     children.  Was there a correction you wished to make to the number of men

 3     that you mentioned at paragraph 25 of your statement?

 4        A.   Yes.

 5        Q.   And what was the correction you wished to make?

 6        A.   From 50 to 60 to 40 to 50.

 7        Q.   Thank you.  In paragraph 30 you wished to make another correction

 8     to the figures stated in that paragraph.  At present it reads:

 9              "A soldier responded saying that there were 60 or 65."

10             What is the correction you wished to make to that figure?

11        A.   The same correction, 40 to 50.

12        Q.   Thank you.  And in paragraph 57 of your statement, you described

13     the injuries that you suffered.  It currently reads that you were injured

14     once on your left knee with an entry and exit wound and once on your

15     right shin, shattering the bone.

16             What is the correction you wished to make to that paragraph?

17        A.   Also on the right knee.

18        Q.   That you were also injured on the right knee?  Is my

19     understanding correct?

20        A.   Yes, yes.

21        Q.   Thank you very much.  And in paragraph 67, you say that you

22     remained in the garden of the house for about an hour.  What was the

23     correction you wished to make to that paragraph?

24        A.   The time.  It was about four hours.

25        Q.   Thank you.  And finally, in paragraph 63, the sentence currently

Page 4602

 1     reads:

 2              "From the window of this room I was able to see the road that I

 3     had walked along to get to the houses."

 4             What was the correction you wished to make in that paragraph?

 5        A.   Not the road that I had come but the road that the forces had

 6     come to the place where we were before coming there.

 7        Q.   Just to clarify, so at -- with your corrections it should read:

 8     "From the window of this room, I was able to see the road that the forces

 9     had walked along."  Is that correct?  Thank you.

10        A.   The road, yes.  That's correct.

11        Q.   Now, having made these corrections to your statement,

12     Mr. Berisha, are you satisfied that it's true and accurate to the best of

13     your knowledge and recollection?

14        A.   Yes.

15        Q.   Thank you.

16             MS. GOPALAN:  Your Honours, I'd like to tender 65 ter 05123 into

17     evidence, please.

18             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

19             THE REGISTRAR:  That will be assigned P00796, Your Honours.

20             MS. GOPALAN:  I will now read out the in-court summary for

21     Mr. Berisha.

22             The witness was born and raised in Qyshk, Kosovo, and is a

23     survivor of the 14 May massacre in the village of Qyshk.

24             He will testify on the -- testify that on the commencement of the

25     NATO bombing he heard that the Serbian police and army were killing and

Page 4603

 1     beating Kosovo Albanians in villages surrounding Qyshk, as well as

 2     looting the houses.

 3             In mid-April 1999, the Serbian police and army entered the Qyshk

 4     village and set some houses on fire.  They also returned to the village a

 5     few days later.

 6             On the 14th of May, 1999, the Serbian police and army entered the

 7     village of Qyshk again.  The witness escaped for fear of being identified

 8     as a possible KLA member and went to the centre of the village where

 9     about 300 people had congregated.  About 70 police and soldiers

10     surrounded them and ordered a separation of men from the women and

11     children.  There were approximately 50 men and around 240 women and

12     children.

13             All this time the Serbian forces were firing their weapons.

14     After the villagers were asked to empty their pockets of all valuables,

15     the men were ordered to walk away from the women and children.  The women

16     and children were ordered into a courtyard opposite to where the witness

17     was standing.  Shortly after, the women and children started screaming as

18     the house that they were standing outside was set on fire.

19             The witness will further testify that of the men, some were

20     initially sent away in one direction, and the remaining group of men were

21     divided into two groups.  They were sent in different directions.  The

22     witness's group was first directed into Sadik Gashi's house but later

23     moved to Sahit Gashi's house.  In the house, Serbian police started

24     shooting at the witness and the group of men he was with.  The witness

25     was injured in his legs.

Page 4604

 1             The Serb forces then set the house on fire.  They returned

 2     shortly after, and the witness saw a small canister being thrown into the

 3     room.  The room was filled with black smoke which made it difficult for

 4     the witness to breathe.

 5             The witness escaped from the burning house by jumping out of the

 6     window and crawled away.  The roof of the house collapsed after he

 7     escaped.  From where he was, the witness could still hear Serb forces

 8     giving orders to set things on fire.

 9             The witness nursed his injured foot until he got assistance from

10     a woman in the area.  He remained in the village until mid-June, until he

11     got medical attention elsewhere.

12             The witness names those he remembered who were with him in the

13     house on the 14th of May.

14             The witness was the sole survivor of the men in this group, and

15     he suffers a permanent limp as a result of the injuries he sustained that

16     day.

17             That's the end of the summary.

18        Q.   I'd now like to ask you a few questions about your statement,

19     Mr. Berisha.  If I could take you to paragraph 9 of your statement.

20             MS. GOPALAN:  Could I call up the statement on e-court, please.

21        Q.   Now, in paragraph 9, you speak about hearing stories in the media

22     just after the NATO bombing, about killing and beating and looting

23     against Kosovo Albanian civilians by the Serbian police and army.

24             Mr. Berisha, what was the source of these stories and the media

25     reports that you heard about?

Page 4605

 1        A.   After the NATO air-strikes began, the Serb forces started to take

 2     revenge against the civilian population, and I heard from various media

 3     outlets that they have killed, looted, and driven away the Albanian

 4     population in sign of revenge for the NATO intervention in Kosova.

 5        Q.   Thank you.  And you also mentioned that these incidents took

 6     place in surrounding villages.  If you recall, could you name some of

 7     these villages, please?

 8        A.   Yes.  In Fushe e Pejes nearby, Katundi i Ri, Lebovic, in other

 9     villages that I don't remember the names now.

10        Q.   Just to clarify, the name that you mentioned is Fushe e Pejes,

11     Katundi i Ri, and what's the final village, please?

12        A.   Lebovic.

13        Q.   Thank you.  I'd now like to take you to the events in mid-April.

14             This is in paragraph 10 of the witness's statement.

15             You say that around the 16th or 17th of April the Serbian police

16     and army entered the village of Qyshk and that they visited a number of

17     houses and set fire to some of them, including the house of your

18     neighbour, Sadri Lajci.  What ethnicity was your neighbour Sadri Lajci,

19     Mr. Berisha?

20        A.   He was Albanian.

21        Q.   And if you recall, what was the ethnicity of the owners of the

22     other houses that were set on fire?

23        A.   Albanian.

24        Q.   Do you remember any of the names of the owners of these other

25     houses?

Page 4606

 1        A.   No.

 2        Q.   That's fine.  Thank you.  You mentioned earlier in your statement

 3     at paragraph 5 that there were three Serb families living in the village

 4     of Qyshk.  Do you know if on that day their houses were set on fire?

 5        A.   No.

 6        Q.   Does that mean you don't know that they were on fire or that they

 7     were not set on fire?

 8        A.   They were not set on fire.

 9        Q.   Thank you.  You then say that on this day, around seven men

10     entered the yard of your house and that you left your home with your

11     wife, children, and extended family.

12             Mr. Berisha, why did you decide to leave your home then?

13        A.   If you want me to explain, I will.  That day, after I left my

14     house with my tractor with a trailer; with my family; my extended family,

15     my brothers and their respective families; I saw about seven policemen

16     and soldiers entering the yard of my house.  And even though they didn't

17     do anything wrong that day, I saw them when they entered it.  We went on

18     with our trip towards the lower part of the village.

19        Q.   If they didn't do anything on that day, why did you decide to

20     leave with your family?

21        A.   They started to set fire to the houses and to fire in the air.

22     That's why we started to leave the village.  In the middle of the

23     village, in the centre of the village, near the cemetery, a little bit

24     below the cemetery, we stopped -- we were stopped by the police and the

25     army, and they told us to go back because we shouldn't leave the village,

Page 4607

 1     they said.

 2             If you want me, I can recount the whole story here.

 3        Q.   No.  That's sufficient for now, Mr. Berisha.  Thank you.

 4             Now, I would like to ask you some questions about the Serbian men

 5     involved in this incident.

 6             MS. GOPALAN:  This is set out in paragraph 14 of the witness

 7     statement.

 8             If I could call up 65 ter 5258, please.

 9        Q.   Mr. Berisha, could you describe for us the men who were involved

10     with -- in setting the houses on fire on the 16th and 17th of April?

11        A.   Yes.  This one in the middle.  The second on my left was there

12     that day.  The third on my left-hand side was also there, but not very

13     near.

14             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes, Mr. Djordjevic.

15             MR. DJORDJEVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, the Defence objects

16     to the photographs being shown since we don't know who took the

17     photographs, when, and we don't know the source of the photographs.

18     Therefore, in our view the photographs cannot be used as evidence in this

19     case.  Thank you.

20             JUDGE PARKER:  That's a somewhat similar objection to one that

21     Mr. Djurdjic has made on more than one occasion.  It's not the practice

22     that would always apply in this Tribunal, Mr. Djordjevic.  It's a matter

23     of whether the people or the scene in the photograph are sufficiently and

24     reliably identified by the witness which determines whether or not it

25     will be admitted.  We'll see whether that condition is satisfied.  Thank

Page 4608

 1     you.

 2             Yes, Ms. Gopalan.

 3             MR. DJORDJEVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.

 4             MS. GOPALAN:

 5        Q.   Mr. Berisha, just to take a step back, do you recognise any of

 6     the men that you see in the photograph before you?

 7        A.   That day I recognised these two I have in front of me and some

 8     others.  These two in the middle.

 9        Q.   And had you seen these two men before mid-April when they came to

10     your village?

11        A.   Yes -- no.  I apologise.  No, not before that day.

12        Q.   Do you know who these two men in the middle are?

13        A.   Later I found out that they are Srecko Popovic and Kastratovic,

14     Nenad Kastratovic.

15        Q.   And how did you find this out, Mr. Berisha?

16        A.   From the photos.  I understood that they were the same persons

17     that were -- that were there that night -- that day, sorry.

18        Q.   Thank you.  And what did these two men do on the 16th or

19     17th of May when they came to your village?

20        A.   On the 16th or 17th of May, after we left with our tractors and

21     went to the centre of the village with the families, they ordered us to

22     go back, because they said we were not supposed to leave the village.

23     That day, they confiscated one -- two weapons from Ibrahim Vokshi and

24     told us to go back to our houses and leave the houses only when they told

25     us to.

Page 4609

 1        Q.   Thank you.  Now, when you speak about the confiscation of the

 2     weapons - that's in paragraph 11 of your statement - you refer to a

 3     senior officer.  Is the senior officer you mentioned on this photograph?

 4        A.   Yes.  This one in the middle.  The second on my left.

 5     Srecko Popovic.

 6        Q.   Thank you.  And was anyone else in this photograph involved in

 7     this confiscation of weapons that you talk about?

 8        A.   Srecko Popovic, but I think he was staying a little bit further

 9     away compared to the rest of the group.

10             I don't know if I made myself clear.

11        Q.   If you could just clarify who else was involved in the

12     confiscation of the weapons.  You mentioned Srecko Popovic initially, and

13     I asked you if there was anyone else involved.

14        A.   Yes, yes, but he is not here among the ones that I see in front

15     of me in this picture.

16        Q.   Thank you very much, Mr. Berisha.

17             MS. GOPALAN:  If we could go to the second page of this exhibit,

18     please.

19        Q.   Do you recognise the man on this photograph?

20        A.   Yes.  It's the same person that I saw in the previous photo,

21     Srecko Popovic.

22        Q.   Thank you.

23             MS. GOPALAN:  And could we please go to page 3 of this exhibit.

24     Is it possible to enlarge it?  Thank you very much.

25        Q.   Mr. Berisha, do you recognise any of the men on this photograph?

Page 4610

 1     Perhaps we could start with the bottom left-hand corner, the man with the

 2     headband, and work our way across.

 3        A.   The one with the headband was a former policeman in Peja

 4     municipality at the time.  The one in the middle wearing a hat was called

 5     Salipur, and the one with the uniform to my right with a machine-gun is

 6     called Nevzat.  I've mentioned before that these were the two that

 7     communicated between each other.  They were like officers in charge.

 8     They communicated with the persons from the period -- previous picture.

 9             The one seated to my right with a sort of a red thing hanging

10     over him was also with them.

11        Q.   Okay.  We will come back to these photographs in a moment just to

12     clarify the various individuals that you have mentioned, but for now I

13     would like to take you to the events of the 14th of May, 1999.  And you

14     talk about this in paragraph 19 of your statement.  You say:

15              "At approximately 7.15 hours on 14 May I was at home with my

16     extended family and a number of co-villagers."

17             Could you tell us what happened next?

18        A.   Yes.  It is a little bit difficult for me, but I will do my best

19     to tell you everything that happened.

20             On the 14th of May, at around 7.00 or 7.15, we were drinking

21     coffee in the yard of the house with other villagers.  This is a common

22     thing in our village.

23             We heard gunshots being fired in the upper part of the village.

24     I went out and saw police and army coming towards the village, towards

25     the houses in the village.

Page 4611

 1             I returned in the yard.  I told my family about this, and my next

 2     door neighbour.  I said to them that the police and army entered the

 3     village and are firing.  I saw them in great numbers.  I don't know the

 4     exact number, but they were a large group coming towards the village.

 5             Having informed my next door neighbour, I went back home.  My

 6     mother begged me to leave the house and not remain there with them

 7     because she feared I might get killed since I was able-bodied man and in

 8     their eyes a possible member of the KLA.  That's why I decided to leave

 9     the house.

10             I walked about 200 metres towards a neighbourhood in the middle

11     of the village.  That's where I stopped and observed the terrain.  I saw

12     that everything was being set on fire, that they were firing in the air.

13             Later on, I went further down the village towards the centre

14     where the incident happened.  There I met other villagers from the Lushi

15     and Kelmendi families.

16             A little bit later, about seven to ten minutes later, they came

17     from all sides and ordered us to come out to the road passing by the

18     graveyard.

19        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Berisha.  I'll just stop you there to clarify one

20     or two points that you've made.

21             You say:

22             "A little bit later, about seven to ten minutes later, they came

23     from all sides and ordered us to come out to the road passing by the

24     graveyard."

25             Who are you referring to when you say "they came from all sides"?

Page 4612

 1        A.   The police and the army.  Whenever I say "they," I would kindly

 2     ask you to know that I'm referring to the police and the army.

 3        Q.   Thank you.  You mention the Lushi and Kelmendi families, that

 4     they also were gathered in the centre of the village.  Now, what about

 5     the women and children in the group?  Where were they?

 6        A.   Children, women, everybody was gathered there.  My family was not

 7     there.  However, the other families were there with women and children.

 8     If I'm not mistaken, we were about 250 people there.  So there were

 9     children, women, men, all together there.

10             If you want me, I can continue now by telling you how things --

11     how the incident happened.

12        Q.   Yes.  If you could please continue, Mr. Berisha.

13        A.   When they came and threatened us and ordered us to go to the main

14     road and for the men to go on one side of the road and the women and

15     children on the other side of the road, we were then told to throw on the

16     ground everything we had in our pockets, money, cigarettes, whatever

17     happened to be in our pockets at the time.  They gave the same order to

18     the women who were on the other side of the road.

19        Q.   Mr. Berisha, just to stop you there.  If you remember, was there

20     anyone in particular in the group who ordered you to throw everything

21     that you had in your pockets on the ground?

22        A.   Yes.  Precisely this person here with the police uniform, with

23     the Kalashnikov or machine-gun in his hands.  It was him and another

24     person whom I don't really recall.

25        Q.   Just to stop you there, are you referring to the photograph

Page 4613

 1     that's on the screen before you when you say, "Precisely this person with

 2     the police uniform and Kalashnikov"?

 3        A.   Yes, that person.

 4        Q.   Do you know who he is, Mr. Berisha?

 5        A.   I later learned that his name was Nebojsa Minic.

 6        Q.   Thank you.  If you could continue, please.  You stopped when the

 7     order was given for the women to also empty their pockets.  What happened

 8     next?

 9        A.   Next they took two children of the age of 13 or 14, perhaps, and

10     ordered them to collect everything that was thrown on the ground,

11     documents, ID cards, money, everything that we this thrown on the ground.

12     They designated one of the children to collect the money and the other

13     one to the collect the documents, ID cards, and other items.

14             Once this task was completed, one of them went to the women, and

15     I remember how he grabbed one child by the hair and said to the women,

16     "If you don't empty your pockets and throw on the ground everything you

17     have, I will cut the throat of this child."

18             Out of fear, the women threw on the ground everything they had on

19     them, gold and jewellery, everything they had on them.

20             Shortly after, the person that I mentioned several times asked

21     one of the other guys as to what was the number of men there.  I remember

22     that the other man said more than 40, and then he replied to his

23     colleague by saying, "Dobro," which is good.  His wishes were

24     satisfied --

25        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Berisha.

Page 4614

 1        A.   -- and throughout this time they were firing in our presence.

 2        Q.   Thank you.  Just to clarify, you have referred to a person you

 3     have mentioned several times.  Do you remember what his name is?

 4        A.   Srecko Popovic.  As I said, I learned his name later.  And

 5     Nebojsa Minic.

 6        Q.   But just to be clear, the individual that you referred to as the

 7     person who said, "Dobro," and this is the senior man that you talk about

 8     in paragraph 30 of your statement.  Am I correct that his name is

 9     Srecko Popovic?  Is that what you mean?

10        A.   Yes.

11        Q.   Thank you.  And you also mention that ID cards were collected.

12     Do you know what happened to these ID cards?

13        A.   I don't know what happened to the ID cards, whether they were

14     burned or taken away.  I really don't know.  They were firing in our

15     presence near our feet and in the air, and then they ordered us to take a

16     small path which was about 20 or 30 metres away from where we were to a

17     house of Ajet Gashi.  The men started to enter Ajet Gashi's house.

18     Twelve or 13 entered the house, and the rest were told to stand with

19     their heads -- backs on the wall because there was not enough room.

20             May I continue?

21        Q.   Just a moment.  You have been telling us about what happened to

22     the men.  What about the women and children?  Where were they at this

23     stage?

24        A.   Then I'll try to recall things chronologically.  The women and

25     children were taken to a house across the place where I was.  This house

Page 4615

 1     was on fire.  Part of women and children were taken to this house and

 2     another part to the next house's yard.  The women and children were taken

 3     to the yard of the house that was opposite me.  The house was on fire,

 4     and they were screaming because they were scared.  This I could see,

 5     because the gate to the yard was open.

 6        Q.   Mr. Berisha, did you see who set the house on fire?

 7        A.   The police and the army.  They were the ones that burned down

 8     everything they saw there.  Not the persons, but these people were inside

 9     there.

10        Q.   I'm sorry, could you please clarify your answer?  I asked who did

11     you see -- my apologies, did you see who set the house on fire, and you

12     said the police and the army.  What --

13        A.   They were the ones that were setting the houses on fire.  I

14     didn't see this personally, but once they entered the yard and when they

15     came out, the house started to burn.  But I think -- I can go into more

16     details, but I think I am clear enough.

17        Q.   Yes, you are right.  You are clear enough on that point.  Thank

18     you.

19             I now would like to take you to paragraph 43 of your statement,

20     and here you say:

21             "A senior soldier directed some of the Serbian forces to take the

22     men from the compound behind me, saying take them their."

23             And you then state that the senior soldier made a certain hand

24     gesture.  Could you show us, please, what this gesture was that the

25     senior soldier made?  If you could just show us.

Page 4616

 1        A.   Yes.  He was crossing his hands like this, and I understood this

 2     to mean take them there and finish them.  And later on, I learned that

 3     this actually was true.  This is exactly what happened.

 4        Q.   Thank you.  Let me just stop you there, Mr. Berisha.

 5             MS. GOPALAN:  Let the record indicate that the witness made a

 6     gesture of crossing his hands over each other with the right hand moving

 7     horizontally from the left to the right and the left hand moving from the

 8     right to the left.

 9        Q.   Mr. Berisha, you say -- you explain what the hand gesture meant

10     to you, and you say this is exactly what happened.  Can you explain what

11     it is that happened to these men, please?

12        A.   The men that were in the yard that I mentioned earlier, 12 or 13

13     of them, were taken out of the house towards the graveyard.  I could

14     still see them from there.  I later learned this.  They went towards the

15     house of Syl Gashi.  Later on, I heard the gunshots fired from automatic

16     rifles; and shortly after, I saw flames coming out of the house.

17             I would say ten minutes later, after smoke and fire was coming

18     out of the house, those that had led the group of men towards that house,

19     these soldiers and policemen, came back and told Srecko Popovic and

20     Nebojsa Minic - although there were many, many others whom I didn't

21     know - they told them that they finished them off by making the same

22     gesture with their hands that I already showed you.

23             Shall I continue?

24        Q.   Yes, please.

25        A.   Immediately afterwards, they discussed something between

Page 4617

 1     themselves.  They took our watches from our wrists.  The more valuable

 2     watches were taken, put aside, whereas those cheaper ones to another

 3     side.

 4             Later on, Srecko Popovic divided into two the group we were in,

 5     directed one part of the group in one direction and the other into

 6     another direction.  The group I was in, we all had our hands behind our

 7     backs and walked towards the graveyard, whereas the other group walked in

 8     the opposite direction.

 9             When we came near Sadik Gashi's house, we were escorted by five

10     policemen and soldiers.  There in the vicinity of this house one of them

11     said, "Not here, because there might be stench."  We proceeded towards

12     Sahit Gashi's house.

13        Q.   Can I just stop you there, Mr. Berisha?  When one of the soldiers

14     said, "Not here because there might be stench," what did you understand

15     that to mean?

16        A.   I thought they were going to burn us alive.

17        Q.   Thank you.  And did they say anything else to your group as they

18     were taking you to the house of Sadik Gashi initially and then later to

19     Sahit's house?

20        A.   We proceeded towards Sadik's house.  Along the way, they were

21     firing all the time.  They were cursing us, saying to us, "Where is NATO

22     now?  Where is Tony Blair?"  and many, many other offensive words they

23     used.

24             We went to the corridor of the house.  One of these five

25     policemen and soldiers opened the door of the corridor, entered, and then

Page 4618

 1     we from the group entered with our hands still on the back of our heads.

 2     He open the door to a room and order us to go into that room where the

 3     execution occurred later on.  It was a four by four room.  It had two

 4     sofas in an L shape.

 5             They ordered us to sit on this L-shaped Sofa.  I sat on the

 6     corner.  On my left I had Arian Lushi, whereas on my right I had

 7     Jusuf Shala, who were -- happened to be guests in our village from

 8     another village.

 9             These soldiers and policemen stopped at the entry, four of them

10     as far as I recall, and I remember very well when I saw the fire fired

11     from the machine-gun.  The first bullets were fired into my direction.

12     It was uninterrupted fire directed towards my side by one of them and

13     another one directed his fire on the other side of the Sofa.  I was not

14     wounded then.

15             The fire stopped for a short time, then a burst of fire came from

16     the opposite direction, from the left side, and I was hit the first time

17     on my left leg and the second time on my right knee.

18             After this second round of -- volley of fire, there was a brief

19     pause.  You could hear the cries of the men who had been shot.  There was

20     still people alive amongst them.  And then I heard them fire one bullet

21     on each of the men.  They started from my left side and continued up to

22     one or two persons away from me and there they stopped.  I don't know the

23     reason why they stop.  Maybe they ran out of bullets.

24             I survived this execution.  It stopped.  They went outside.  I

25     tried to open my eyes a little bit and have a look around in the room

Page 4619

 1     where I was.  And on my left I saw them piled on top of each other, and I

 2     saw blankets on the upper part of the room to my left.  I touched

 3     Arian Lushi.  He was dead.  I tried to move him.  He wasn't moving.

 4     Isuf Shala who was to my right was also dead.  I was thinking of getting

 5     up.  They were covered with sponge.

 6             I was thinking of getting up when I saw them piled like that, but

 7     in split of a second I decided to look through the window.  The window

 8     was behind me, and instinctively I turned my head and saw five of them

 9     talking among each other.  One of them broke away from that group and

10     walked into the corridor of the house.  He had kind of a bottle or

11     something in his canister, a longish shaped, and threw it in.

12             I started to catch fire very fast.  The fire caught my face, and

13     at that time I was -- I didn't know where I was, whether on the ground or

14     floating.  For a moment I couldn't see anything.  I thought I was buried

15     deep in the ground.

16             I was trying to stand on my foot.  I couldn't, but I guess God

17     helped me.  I came next to the door.  To tell you the truth, I tried to

18     stand up not to survive that execution but to be killed by a bullet and

19     not be burnt alive.

20             After I went to the door, I started to breathe and to see.  There

21     I saw that they were no longer there and decided to walk in the direction

22     of the next room using my left leg.  There I saw that the room was

23     covered in flames.  Even if there were fire -- a fire brigade there, they

24     wouldn't have been able to extinguish it.

25             I went to the window, and I saw parked outside in the street,

Page 4620

 1     tractors, trucks, cars.  I didn't see any policemen or soldiers at that

 2     moment.  I opened the window, and holding in my hands the right leg

 3     because it was injured, broken, I used the left leg and crawled out of

 4     the window.  It was about 1 metre and 70 centimetres high.  And then I

 5     crawled on my back until the corner of the house.  It may be

 6     5 or 6 metres away, I'm not clear.  And then I went to the corner to the

 7     fence surrounding -- dividing the houses.  It was -- there was wire there

 8     in that -- in that fence.  And nobody was there to help me.  During all

 9     this time, I tried to help myself.  But I could hear the moans and the

10     anguished cries, the sounds of cars, tractors.  During all this time

11     there was continuous -- continuous fire and shots.

12             I feel very excited at this moment because I'm reliving, you

13     know, what I went through that day.

14             As I said, I tried to help myself.  I tied up my right leg with

15     my belt, and I looked at my left leg.  I tried to tie the wound in order

16     to prevent the blood from coming out.

17        Q.   Mr. Berisha --

18        A.   Half an hour later --

19        Q.   Let me just stop you there.  Thank you very much.  If we could

20     just go back to the house you were in.  You say that you jumped out of

21     the window and that the house was on fire.

22             Do you know what caused the house to burn?

23        A.   As I said, there were some blankets there which were on fire.

24     And as I said, they threw this bottle with gas, I think, and that helped

25     the fire.  And so as I said, I couldn't breathe at that moment.  I lost

Page 4621

 1     consciousness.  After -- even ten days after that, I used to spit out

 2     blood.

 3             I don't know if I'm clear.  If you have questions, you may ask

 4     me.

 5        Q.   The blanket that you say were on fire, did you see how they

 6     caught fire?

 7        A.   I only saw them after these people left.  I saw the blankets that

 8     were burning.  How can I explain to you?  They were set on fire.

 9        Q.   How many of you were in this group of yours?

10        A.   To my recollection, 12 or 13.  Even though I don't like to

11     mention names, but I think about 13.

12        Q.   And of those 12 or 13 men, how many survived this incident?

13        A.   Only myself.

14        Q.   In paragraph 64 of your statement you speak about the roof of

15     this house you were in collapsing.  Do you know why this roof collapsed?

16        A.   From the fire, because the entire house was set on fire, and then

17     the roof collapsed in, caved in, and it fell down.

18        Q.   Thank you.  And you also say that when you were in the yard after

19     you jumped out of the window, you heard activity around you, and you

20     heard orders being given to set things on fire.  Do you remember what

21     language these orders were given in?

22        A.   In Serbian.  In Serbian language.

23        Q.   Thank you.  Now, following this incident, Mr. Berisha, what

24     injuries did you sustain?

25        A.   I was injured on both my legs, on my left, on the knee of the

Page 4622

 1     left leg, and on the right knee, and on the hip of the left leg.  They

 2     were simultaneous injuries I sustained, and my right leg was broken in

 3     seven or eight places.  Only the skin held the pieces together.

 4             Do you want further explanations how that happened?

 5        Q.   No, that's sufficient.  Thank you.  But how -- let me rephrase

 6     the question.

 7             You have mentioned a number of injuries.  Do you suffer any

 8     permanent injuries following this indent?

 9        A.   Yes.  My right leg is about 4 or 5 centimetres shorter.  Because

10     of that, I limp even today.

11        Q.   Thank you.

12        A.   I use crutches.

13        Q.   Now, earlier in your testimony you mentioned that there were two

14     other groups of men that were taken away.  One went to the house of

15     Syl Gashi you mentioned.  Now, you were in the remaining two groups.

16     What about the third group?  Where did they go?  Whose house were they

17     taken to?

18        A.   The group I was in was divided in two parts.  I don't know where

19     they were taken to, but at a later phase I realised that they were taken

20     to the house of Deme Gashi.

21        Q.   And what happened to the men who were taken to the house of

22     Deme Gashi?

23        A.   They suffered the same fate.  They were all killed.  Only one

24     survived.  Iljaz Kelmendi in the house of Syl Gashi, Isa Gashi survived.

25     So God willed that in each of the three houses one survived.

Page 4623

 1        Q.   Thank you.  And if you recall, how many men were killed in your

 2     village Qyshk on that day, the 14th of May?

 3        A.   A total of 41 from the entire village, including men from the

 4     upper part of the village and the part we were in.  So a total of 41.

 5        Q.   And, Mr. Berisha, do you know if there were any other killings in

 6     villages chose to Qyshk on that day, if you know?

 7        A.   Yes.  On the same day after Qyshk village they went to

 8     Pavlan village, Zahaq village.  In these three villages, Qyshk, Pavlan,

 9     and Zahaq, maybe a total of 80 persons were killed in half a day.

10        Q.   Thank you.  And in your own village of Qyshk, were there any

11     killings prior to the 14th of May, if you know?

12        A.   Yes.  Yes, there were.  I don't remember the exact date, but it

13     was either on the 13th or the 14th when I heard shots.  And there was a

14     man and a woman taken from the city and killed in the vicinity of the

15     road, Peja-Prishtina road, near a store there.  They were elderly people

16     who we were not able to bury because, as I said, we suffered our own

17     fate.  And I think they -- their corpse -- their bodies were eaten by the

18     dogs.

19        Q.   Do you know who was responsible for the killing of these elderly

20     folk either on the 13th or 14th of May?

21        A.   The police and soldiers were those who took them.

22        Q.   How do you know that, Mr. Berisha?

23        A.   Because they were the ones who did such things.  Everything that

24     happened was committed by the police and the soldiers.  And you can --

25     you could see their presence from a distance.  They were the only ones

Page 4624

 1     that were doing these things.

 2        Q.   Did you see police or soldiers in the village of Qyshk round

 3     about the time this elderly couple was killed?

 4        A.   Not in the village, inside the village.  This happened in the

 5     vicinity of the road.

 6        Q.   So did you see any police or soldiers in the vicinity of the

 7     road?

 8        A.   Yes.  Yes.  When the murder took place, I heard the shots, and I

 9     saw a car with police and soldiers passing by.  That car passed.  After,

10     we heard the shots.  So we saw the police car passing by.  After, we

11     heard the shots, but we couldn't take their bodies.  This happened at

12     about 7.00, 8.00 in the evening.

13             On the next day, they came to our village.  So later we heard

14     that their bodies were eaten by dogs.

15             This was just to give you an explanation about what happened.

16        Q.   Thank you.  And you also mentioned some killings in the village

17     of Pavlan and Zahac.  Do you know who was responsible for those killings

18     in the nearby villages?

19        A.   The same people, because the same persons who were in our village

20     continued their work further away in the Pavlan and Zahaq village,

21     because during the day we heard constant shots and could see the smoke or

22     fire coming from all over the place.  I didn't mention before, but

23     besides the shots you could see the smoke coming from all over the place.

24        Q.   Thank you.  I'd now like to clarify the names of some of the

25     individuals in the photograph before you.

Page 4625

 1             MS. GOPALAN:  I think we still have it on our screen,

 2     Your Honours.

 3        Q.   Now, you mentioned during your testimony today an individual

 4     named Nebojsa Minic.  Is he on the photograph before you?  Could you

 5     describe --

 6        A.   Yes.

 7        Q.   -- or identify him in the photograph?

 8        A.   He's the person with the police uniform.  He has a machine-gun in

 9     his hand, and he was the person, as I said earlier, I'm repeating, the

10     person, the key person, with Srecko Popovic.  These are the two key

11     persons regarding what happened that day.

12        Q.   Thank you.  Just to clarify, is this the person who's standing

13     with the cigarette in his mouth?

14        A.   Yes.

15        Q.   And on the 14th of May, did you see anyone else in this

16     photograph in your village?

17        A.   Yes.  Yes.  I saw this one with a band, headband, but also the

18     other one who is sitting on my right-hand side.  I think he has something

19     red on his shoulder.  Now I remember they were there too.

20        Q.   The man with the headband, had you seen him prior to the incident

21     in your village on the 14th of May?

22        A.   Yes.  He was a policeman even before, and this one in the middle

23     was also -- this one with the cap was also a policeman.  Both of them

24     were policemen even before what happened in the village.  Even before the

25     war, I would say.

Page 4626

 1        Q.   Now, you --

 2        A.   Before 1998, I would say.

 3        Q.   Thank you.  You mentioned the man with the cap standing right in

 4     the middle.  Do you know his name?

 5        A.   Yes, I know his pseudonym, Salipur.  I don't know his real name.

 6        Q.   That's sufficient.  Thank you.  What else did you know about

 7     Salipur apart from the fact that he was a policeman?

 8        A.   Every citizen that was stopped in the street, he was maltreated

 9     by this person.  He was notorious for the maltreatment of people.  The

10     maltreatment of Albanians, not other ethnicities.

11        Q.   Thank you.

12             MS. GOPALAN:  If we could move on to the next page of this

13     exhibit, please.

14        Q.   Mr. Berisha, do you recognise this photograph?

15        A.   Yes.  It's me there in the house where the crime was committed.

16        Q.   And when you say in the house the crime was committed, you mean

17     the house of -- whose house are you referring to?

18        A.   The house of Sahit Gashi.

19        Q.   And do you know when this photograph was taken?

20        A.   No.  I don't remember.

21        Q.   And do you know who took this photograph, if you do?

22        A.   I don't remember that.  I don't remember.

23        Q.   Thank you.  Now, just to move on to another topic, you say in

24     your statement --

25             JUDGE PARKER:  Ms. Gopalan, we've come and gone with these

Page 4627

 1     photographs more than once.  Are you proposing to tender them?

 2             MS. GOPALAN:  I was hoping to show them once more, another page,

 3     before I tendered it all at once.

 4             JUDGE PARKER:  I see.

 5             MS. GOPALAN:  But I'm --

 6             JUDGE PARKER:  Well, no.  You do it your way, as long as you

 7     haven't forgotten.  But before you finish with the witness, you may learn

 8     from him, if you could, how he knew the names of the people that he is

 9     naming in his evidence.

10             MS. GOPALAN:

11        Q.   Mr. Berisha, during your testimony today you have mentioned a

12     number of names.  Popovic, for example, Minic.  Could you explain to us

13     how it is you came to know the names of these individuals?

14        A.   I think I am -- if I'm not mistaken, that I didn't know them by

15     names, but from the photos I recognise them by sight.  But later on I

16     learned that they were called as I mentioned, Salipur, this nickname --

17     this person I knew personally as a policeman, even though I never had

18     anything to do with him, but I knew that everybody called him by this

19     nickname.

20             The other policeman that I mentioned later, I didn't know his

21     name, but people called him Pucrrani because his face was full of

22     pimples.  Pucrrani in Albanian means pimple face.  Then, later, as I

23     said, I learned their names.

24        Q.   Thank you.

25        A.   I hope I'm clear now.

Page 4628

 1        Q.   Thank you.  If we could just go back to the photograph --

 2             JUDGE PARKER:  Not for my purposes.  From who was this learned?

 3             MS. GOPALAN:  I will ask the question, Your Honours.

 4        Q.   Who was it who told you the names of these people?  How did you

 5     learn this?

 6        A.   After we identified them on these photos, later on I could

 7     identify them through a book which I have at home.  But I don't know the

 8     person who identified them by name, because there were many people who

 9     identified them.  I can't give you any name.  But I have a book; in that

10     book you have all these names.

11             If you want some more explanation, you can ask me.

12        Q.   Now, these -- this book that you say that has the photos, when

13     did you see this book for the first time?

14        A.   This book was given to me as a present by those who collected

15     these notes.  Because I was a participant in the event.  Because of that,

16     they gave that book to me as a present.

17        Q.   And do you know who it is that gave you this book?  Those who

18     collected the notes, who are they?

19        A.   Radio Vojs [phoen] if I'm not mistaken.  I have given several

20     statements that there may be other persons who have collected such notes.

21     Radio Vojs as far as I know is one of them.  I don't know the accurate

22     name of the organisation or the persons who collected such notes.  At

23     this moment, it doesn't come to my mind.

24        Q.   Thank you.

25             MS. GOPALAN:  Your Honours, if that sufficiently clear, or would

Page 4629

 1     you like to --

 2             JUDGE PARKER:  It is clear, but it leaves us without any reliable

 3     basis for names, as you would realise.  The witness has been told or has

 4     been given a book with names in it.  That doesn't help us reach the point

 5     of identification of the individuals.

 6             MS. GOPALAN:

 7        Q.   If I could just go back to the previous page of this -- of this

 8     exhibit before us.

 9             Now, you mentioned today someone called Pucrrani.  Is that person

10     in this photograph?

11        A.   Yes, the one with the band, headband.  On my left side.

12        Q.   And where had you seen him before?

13        A.   He was a policeman in the town of Peja.

14        Q.   Thank you.  Now, this photograph that you have before you, when

15     did you see it for the first time?

16        A.   I saw this photo with the other photos.  I don't think I have

17     mentioned it in my statement, but after our killing, let's say, there

18     were some investigators and different organisations that came to ask us

19     about that incident, and they showed us some photos.  They showed us

20     these photos, and we identified the persons we knew.  This person that

21     I'm mentioning, this one you asked me about, I've seen him several times

22     in Peja, because he was a policeman there.  The other person wearing a

23     cap, he was also a policeman in the town of Peja.

24             Later on, based on the photos, I don't know who asked me because

25     I've seen many, but during one of these occasions they gave me this book

Page 4630

 1     I mentioned; but I don't recall who was the first to show me the photos

 2     and where this happened.  Very frankly, I am saying that I have seen such

 3     photos several times, but I don't remember when and who showed them to

 4     me.

 5             If I'm not clear, I'm sorry.  You may ask me again.

 6             MS. GOPALAN:  Your Honours, I just have another short topic to

 7     deal with.  With your leave, I wonder if we to take our break at the

 8     moment.

 9             JUDGE PARKER:  We must take our first break and resume at 10

10     minutes past 4.00.

11                           --- Recess taken at 3.41 p.m.

12                           --- On resuming at 4.11 p.m.

13             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes, Ms. Gopalan.

14             MS. GOPALAN:  Thank you, Your Honours.

15        Q.   Mr. Berisha, just to pick up where we left off.  We were talking

16     about the photograph on the screen before you, and you say that they

17     showed us this photographs and we identified the persons we knew.  Could

18     you tell us, Mr. Berisha, when you say, "We identified the persons we

19     knew," did you identify them by name or by sight?

20        A.   By sight at the time.  As far as the one with the headband is

21     concerned, I know that he was a policeman, although I didn't mention his

22     name in the statement.  I knew that he was a policeman, as was the person

23     with the cap.

24        Q.   Now, this person with the headband, how did you know that he was

25     a policeman?

Page 4631

 1        A.   I think I mentioned it earlier.  He was a policeman in Peja.  He

 2     was an active policeman, as they called them.  Although he is wearing a

 3     military uniform here, at the time he had a police uniform.  They used to

 4     wear the uniforms they wanted regardless of whether it was military or

 5     police uniform.  That's why I'm saying he was a policeman, although he is

 6     wearing a military uniform on this picture.

 7             If you want me to give you more details, I can do that.

 8        Q.   Thank you.  And when you say, At that time he had a police

 9     uniform, what time are you referring to?

10        A.   I'm talking about the incident of the 14th and about the time

11     when the war was ongoing.  The person with the headband and the one with

12     the cap were policemen even before 1998.  I'm stating this with full

13     responsibility.  Although they're wearing military uniforms in this

14     picture, they were policemen and wore police uniforms at the time.

15        Q.   Now, the other men who participated in the incident on the

16     14th of May in Qyshk, were they also wearing uniforms?

17        A.   Yes.

18        Q.   And could you describe for us what uniforms they were wearing,

19     please.

20        A.   On the 14th of May, as well as on the 16th and 17th, the police

21     members were wearing blue police uniform with grey mixture of colours,

22     camouflage, as they call it, whereas the army were wearing green

23     camouflage uniforms.

24        Q.   When you refer to the 16th and 17th, could you please clarify

25     what month you are referring to?

Page 4632

 1        A.   April, about one month before the massacre in the village was

 2     committed.

 3        Q.   Thank you.  And finally, if you have a look at the photograph,

 4     could you tell us who came to your village, if at all, on the

 5     14th of May?  Are they present in this photograph?

 6             JUDGE PARKER:  That's been made very clear, Ms. Gopalan.  You

 7     have no need to ask that again.

 8             MS. GOPALAN:  Okay.  Thank you, Your Honours.  I seek to tender

 9     this exhibit into evidence, please.

10             JUDGE PARKER:  Now, there have been several photographs shown of

11     which this photograph is one.  This happens to be Exhibit P772, if I'm

12     correct.

13             MS. GOPALAN:  That's right, Your Honours.

14             JUDGE PARKER:  So it doesn't need to be tendered again.  It's

15     identified in the transcript.  But you've also shown a photograph of this

16     witness.

17             MS. GOPALAN:  Yes, that's right.

18             JUDGE PARKER:  In a house.  A photograph of one of the people in

19     this group photograph standing alone.  Are they photographs you intend to

20     tender?

21             MS. GOPALAN:  Yes, Your Honours.  They're all part of the same

22     65 ter number.  The reason I've included this photograph on the screen

23     separately is because I believe it's slightly clearer than the photograph

24     already in evidence, but with Your Honour's guidance, I'm very happy to

25     just tender the ones -- the remaining ones that I've shown to the

Page 4633

 1     witness, which I believe are pages 1 and 2 of this exhibit and the

 2     photograph with the witness in it.

 3             JUDGE PARKER:  Pages 1 and 2 will be received,

 4     photographs 1 and 2.

 5             THE REGISTRAR:  And they would be assigned P00797, Your Honours.

 6             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

 7             MS. GOPALAN:  And also page 4 of this exhibit, please, which is

 8     the photograph of the witness himself.

 9             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

10             THE REGISTRAR:  Pages 1, 2, and 4, Your Honours, will be assign

11     the same exhibit number as P00797.

12             MS. GOPALAN:

13        Q.   Mr. Berisha, at paragraph 23 you say that of the group that was

14     gathered in the village centre and that was surrounded by 70 policemen,

15     this group did not include any members of your family.  Where were your

16     family members?  This is going back to the 14th of May.

17        A.   They were at home.  My entire family was in my house.  But later

18     on, my mother told me that when the police and army came there my son,

19     who was 11 months at the time, a police or a soldier approached him, put

20     the barrel of his automatic in his mouth, and demanded money from those

21     present or else he threatened to kill the child.  My wife was scared to

22     death and could no longer hold my son in her arms.  She dropped him.  My

23     now late mother gave them 500 Deutschmarks.

24             Later on, they told my family to take the main road towards Peja.

25     Perhaps because of my emotions, I'm overwhelmed with emotion, and I

Page 4634

 1     didn't mention everything that happened, but I'm taking this opportunity

 2     to tell you now that they were told to go towards Peja, and then they

 3     were again sent back home.  So they had to come back to the village on

 4     two occasions.

 5             You may ask me further questions if you want me to clarify any

 6     issue.

 7        Q.   How did they go to Peja on that day?

 8        A.   That day, the women, children, and elderly who happened to be in

 9     their homes were taken by tractors covered with plastic covers in the

10     direction of the town.  Not only my family but the other families who had

11     remained in the village at the time were taken towards the town in

12     tractors.

13        Q.   Can you recall how big was this group that was taken towards the

14     town in tractors?

15        A.   Probably between 200 and 250 people, men, elderly men, children,

16     and women.  Maybe even more, but I don't really recall the exact number.

17        Q.   And how did you learn about this incident?

18        A.   I learned about it from my mother, who has died.

19        Q.   And when you say that your family was sent to Peja and returned

20     back, was that on the same day?

21        A.   Yes, on the same day.

22        Q.   Thank you.  Mr. Berisha, I'd just like to clarify a question that

23     I asked you.  Perhaps the error was in my question.  I'd asked you about

24     the incident that took place in mid-April.  Perhaps I could read the

25     question for you just to clarify.  This is in relation to your answer on

Page 4635

 1     the confiscation of weapons from Ibrahim Vokshi and that you were told to

 2     go to your house and "leave the house only when they told us to."

 3             Now, this incident when you were asked to go back to your house

 4     and then return only when they ordered you to do so, when did that take

 5     place?  Was that on the 16th or 17th of May?  That's what's reflected in

 6     the transcript.

 7        A.   On the 16th or 17th of May, when we were sent back, when we were

 8     not allowed to leave the village.  This happened on the same day, on the

 9     16th or the 17th.

10             On this same day, Ibrahim Lushi, or Ibrahim Vokshi handed over a

11     hunting rifle and a pistol, a handgun.

12        Q.   So am I correct that this took place in May and not in April as

13     you say in your statement?

14        A.   I apologise.  I apologise.  One month approximately before the

15     May incident, 16th or 17th of April.  I'm talking about April now.  I

16     apologise for this mistake.

17        Q.   Thank you very much.  And we also referred to three Serb families

18     living in the village of Qyshk.  This is at paragraph 5 of your

19     statement.  Could you clarify if this was the total number of Serb

20     families living in Qyshk?

21        A.   If I'm not mistaken, I mentioned in my statement that there were

22     three households, not three families in the village, because one

23     household can comprise of four or five families.

24             I didn't mention the other houses, because I wasn't sure whether

25     they belonged to Qyshk village or to the village adjacent to Qyshk.

Page 4636

 1        Q.   Okay.  Thank you, Mr. Berisha.  I have no further questions for

 2     you at this stage.

 3             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

 4             Mr. Djordjevic, do you cross-examine?

 5             MR. DJORDJEVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour.  If I have --

 6     if I may have a moment to prepare myself.

 7                           Cross-examination by Mr. Djordjevic:

 8        Q.   [Interpretation] Good afternoon.  I will be putting questions to

 9     you arising from the examination that my learned friend has just

10     completed, and I kindly ask you to give me short answers.

11             Mr. Berisha, can you tell me what is your profession and what was

12     it that you did in late May of 1999?  Were you employed?  Did you have

13     any sort of occupation at all?

14        A.   If you can repeat your question, please.  I didn't understand it.

15        Q.   What is your profession?  What is your educational background?

16        A.   I've completed secondary school.

17        Q.   For which particular vocation?

18        A.   Shoemaker.

19        Q.   I haven't received interpretation.  Right.  Tell me, were you

20     employed in 1999?  Were you working?

21        A.   I was an employee in the shoe factory, but in 1999 I wasn't

22     working.  Nobody was working from the Albanians.

23        Q.   When did you stop working, if you can tell me.

24        A.   I'm not quite sure about the date, but I think it was in 1998.  I

25     don't know the exact month.

Page 4637

 1        Q.   Thank you.  Tell me, was the factory located in Pec, the factory

 2     you worked for?

 3        A.   Yes, in Peja.

 4        Q.   Thank you.  Are you employed today?

 5        A.   No.

 6        Q.   Thank you.  When did you have the first contact with the ICTY OTP

 7     and their investigators, in which year?

 8        A.   Are you referring to the time when I came here or to a time

 9     earlier?

10        Q.   No.  No.  My question was when it was that you had the very first

11     contact with the ICTY investigators.  You don't need to tell me the

12     month.  The year would be enough.

13        A.   In May 2008 when I gave my statement, that's when I met them.  I

14     met them immediately after the incident occurred, but I don't know the

15     exact date when this meeting took place.  I think I'm clear I don't

16     remember the exact date.

17        Q.   Am I right if I say that your first encounter with the ICTY

18     investigators was back in 1999 and not in 2008, as you've just mentioned?

19        A.   After 1999, many people came to see me, but the statement I gave

20     and why I'm here today, this statement was taken in May last year, 2008.

21        Q.   Did you offer to give a statement or did they approach you first?

22        A.   I gave the statement out of my free will.  They came because they

23     were intrigued with this case and the circumstances under which I

24     survived.

25        Q.   That's precisely what I'm interested in.  How did you come to

Page 4638

 1     inform them that you were the only survivor of the Cuska incident?  Was

 2     it you, or was it somebody else who informed them of it, or is it the

 3     case that you don't know anything about it?

 4        A.   I don't know.  I don't know how they learnt about it.

 5        Q.   I'd like to know if you had filled out a questionnaire on the

 6     28th of July, 1999, which had to do precisely with the events you

 7     testified to today.  Did you answer questions put to you by an individual

 8     who introduced himself or herself as a representative of the committee

 9     for human rights and freedoms in Kosovo?  Do you recall that?  That was

10     the union or alliance for the defence of human rights and freedoms.

11        A.   As I already said, I gave many, many statements.  I don't

12     remember who came to see me, but I did give many statements.

13        Q.   Thank you.  What did you have in mind when you said that you gave

14     a statement for the ICTY shortly after the events in Cuska, i.e., in

15     1999?  Who did you have in mind?

16        A.   Can you -- you're asking me the same question for the second

17     time.  I don't remember who came to see me first or second.  I gave many,

18     many statements.  I think I already answered your question the first

19     time.

20        Q.   I'm not clear on that, and probably nobody else in the courtroom

21     is.  My first question to you was -- was about your first contact with

22     the representatives of the ICTY Prosecution.  You first said that it was

23     in 2008, and that was the statement you gave which is beyond doubt.

24     However, you also stated that you gave a statement for the Tribunal

25     shortly after the events transpired.  Can you please tell me is my

Page 4639

 1     understanding correct or not?

 2        A.   No.  At that time, immediately after the incident, I didn't know

 3     who was who when they came to see me, and when I gave statements.  This

 4     statement that we have today is a statement that I gave in 2008.

 5        Q.   Thank you.  In your statement you say that you served the

 6     military service in 1981 in Nis apparently.  What was your occupational

 7     speciality, the VES as it was known in the army?

 8        A.   Infantry for the first six months, although in the military

 9     booklet, as profession I had "shoemaker" listed.

10        Q.   Tell me, did you serve the entire military service for the entire

11     term?

12        A.   Twelve months.

13        Q.   Can you distinguish between the uniforms worn by the

14     Army of Yugoslavia and the uniforms worn by the police in view of the

15     fact that you did the military service?

16        A.   Yes.  They've changed.  At that time they were different from

17     what they are now.

18        Q.   In 1981 the uniforms were different from when?  Today or 1999?

19     1999 was ten years ago?

20        A.   They were different in 81 from those that we are talking about in

21     1999.

22        Q.   Very well.  Did you know what the military uniforms were like in

23     1999 and 1998?  Was there a barracks close to your village?

24        A.   No, there was no barracks close to our village, but I described

25     the uniforms earlier on.

Page 4640

 1        Q.   Can you do the same thing now since we were mentioning 1999 as

 2     compared to 1981?

 3        A.   I was in the army.  There was a solid colour uniform.  It was a

 4     green uniform, a solid green.

 5        Q.   Do you know what the military uniforms looked like in 1999?  Were

 6     there solid-colour uniforms or were there other sorts of uniform as well?

 7        A.   If you are asking me about the army, they were camouflage

 8     colours.  If you ask me about the uniforms in 1999, there were both blue

 9     and camouflage blue.  The army had green, solid green and the camouflage

10     green uniforms.

11        Q.   You mentioned blue uniforms.  What sort were they?  Camouflage or

12     solid blue?  What was it that you had in mind when mentioning the colour

13     blue in reference to the army?

14        A.   I said blue for the police.  Don't mix them up.  I said the

15     police wore blue, solid blue and camouflage blue uniforms.  The army wore

16     green uniforms and camouflage green.  I think I'm clear.

17        Q.   Now it's come up quite clear.  Thank you.  I suppose you still

18     have your statement dating from May of 2008 that you gave to the OTP.  It

19     is in evidence in this case.  And I'll ask you to look at paragraph 15,

20     please, which states as follows:

21             "Three or four days after the incident, I was in the centre of

22     the village speaking with a group of maybe eight male friends ..."

23             I have to slow down.  I guess it's for the sake of

24     interpretation.

25              " ... including Syl Gashi (now deceased).  As we spoke, two

Page 4641

 1     vehicles, one army and one police, entered the village and stopped a

 2     short distance from where we were standing."

 3             In the next paragraph you say that four soldiers came out of the

 4     military vehicle and four policemen out of the police vehicle.

 5             Can we please set a date on this, since in one of your statements

 6     you referred to a certain period of time and described the very same

 7     event.  Am I right if I say that this event, in fact, refers to the

 8     17th of April, 1999, or am I wrong?  Was it earlier or was it later?

 9             You have paragraphs 15 and 16 in front of you, so please look at

10     them.

11        A.   This happened after the 15th or 16th of April.  I cannot be

12     accurate.  It might be up to -- up to one, two, or three days, within

13     that time-frame, after the 16th.

14        Q.   Very well.  That's clear now.

15             MR. DJORDJEVIC: [Interpretation] Can I ask the registrar to call

16     up Exhibit D003-6348.  I think that's the English version of the

17     questionnaire, which is an original prepared by the Union for the Defence

18     of Human Rights and Freedoms from Pristina, Kosovo.  If I cited it

19     correctly.  Let me just check the number.  6348.  No, not 63 -- 0348.

20     That's the right number, 0348.  D003-0348.

21        Q.   Of course, let's look at page 2.  In your statement you say that:

22             "A month before the crime happened, i.e., on the 3rd or

23     4th of April, 1999, 12 to 13 uniformed persons came in a military jeep

24     and started shooting in the air.  They told us that they were regular

25     army and that they wouldn't provoke us.  They came on the 17th of April

Page 4642

 1     and set the houses on fire and we moved to another neighbourhood where it

 2     was safer.  They wanted us to hand them over weapons and they appointed

 3     the following day as the day to deliver the same.  They were regular

 4     army, but there were also paramilitaries.  They took a nice car, some 10

 5     to 15.000 German marks from Syl Gashi --"

 6             JUDGE PARKER:  [Previous translation continues] ... slow down.

 7             MR. DJORDJEVIC: [Interpretation] I apologise.  You're right.

 8             JUDGE PARKER:  Ms. Gopalan.

 9             MS. GOPALAN:  Your Honours, since Mr. Djordjevic is quoting quite

10     extensively from the statement, I wonder if it's possible to have up an

11     Albanian version of it to assist the witness at the moment.  I don't

12     think that's on the screen.

13             JUDGE PARKER:  I don't know the answer at the moment.

14             MR. DJORDJEVIC: [Interpretation] If I may be of assistance.  It

15     does not exist.  I haven't seen an Albanian translation of this

16     statement, and that's why I'm quoting from the statement to save time for

17     the Prosecution, the Court, and myself.  I meant to suggest to -- and I

18     suggested that the English version be placed on the screens for all those

19     who use English.  I also wanted to call up the Albanian version, but I

20     was unable to find it.  That's the only reason why I'm reading out for

21     the benefit of the witness.

22             With your leave, I would proceed to put questions to the witness

23     in relation to his 2008 statement and his 1999 statement.

24             JUDGE PARKER:  It would probably be helpful if you could identify

25     what is different about the two and ask if the witness can explain any

Page 4643

 1     difference.  You've quoted a long section of it, but I think you need to

 2     take the witness's mind to what it is that's different as you see it.

 3             MR. DJORDJEVIC: [Interpretation] That's precisely what I was

 4     about to do, Your Honour.  I do admit that the quotation was longish, but

 5     I wanted to make sure that I cannot be told that I took a part of the

 6     witness's statement out of the context in an attempt to facilitate the

 7     Defence case in this improper way.

 8             However, what I was about to ask the witness before my learned

 9     friend stood up was:  Why is it now, in 2009, nine years later, he stated

10     that there were -- or rather, In 1999 you stated that there were two

11     vehicles arriving, a police and a military car, whereas in his -- so in

12     2008 he mentioned police and military car, whereas in 1999 statement he

13     only mentions the regular army without referring to the police.

14             So apparently on the 17th of April, in addition to the jeep, a

15     police car showed up.  So where did the police come out of when the

16     witness clearly stated in his statement on the 28th of July, 1999:

17             "They wanted us to hand over our weapons and they set the

18     following day as the deadline.  There were regular military personnel, as

19     well as the paramilitaries there."

20             Apparently the witness is familiar with the police because he saw

21     them --

22             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Djordjevic, do you have a question for the

23     witness?

24             MR. DJORDJEVIC: [Interpretation] The question is:  Where does

25     this discrepancy between the two statements come from?  Why is he

Page 4644

 1     mentioning police forces now in -- or, rather, in 2008, whereas back then

 2     in 1999 when his memories of the events were fresh he did not mention the

 3     police.

 4             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] May I answer it?

 5             JUDGE PARKER:  Please.

 6             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] You have read it very well from

 7     what I see it.  I have stated several times it was not the same event.

 8     That happened at the beginning of April or the end of March, which means

 9     I gave it on the 2nd, on the 3rd of April, and I talked about the regular

10     army.  They came by a police jeep and fired in the air, and I saw it with

11     my own eyes.  They came there.  They fired in the air and said, "Don't be

12     afraid of us.  We are regular army," and I'm quoting.  "And we won't do

13     anything to you unless you do anything to us."

14             And this happened on the 3rd or 4th.  I'm not accurate about the

15     time.  It was the beginning of April.  Whereas on the 16th of April, I

16     talked about the police and the army, and one or two days after that date

17     they came there with two cars.  And I mentioned this in my statement,

18     because this is something I saw it with my own eyes, not -- I didn't hear

19     from others.  That they came there after the 16th or the 17th to ask for

20     money, as I said earlier.

21             They said -- they addressed the deceased Syl Gashi, saying that

22     "We didn't find any weapons."  They went together to his house.  I think

23     they got a BMW car from him, and then they said, up to 3.000 Deutschmark.

24     They took it from Syl Gashi.  They took the car and went in the direction

25     of the main road, the Peja road.

Page 4645

 1             This is simply by way of explanation in reference to my statement

 2     of 1998, 1999.  I am speaking about events which I was an eyewitness of

 3     and not heard from others.

 4             JUDGE PARKER:  What Mr. Djordjevic pointed out to you is that in

 5     the statement you gave in 1999, you said there in respect of the

 6     17th of April, you appear to have said "They were regular army, but there

 7     were also paramilitaries."  There's no mention of the police, and so he

 8     asks you why is it that you now say there were police and army.  Can you

 9     help us with that?

10             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I'll try.  I said army and police,

11     but someone may describe the army as paramilitaries.  I don't know,

12     because I don't know what the people who have gotten down my statement

13     have written there.  I have used the word "army."  People may describe it

14     as paramilitaries, but for me there were police and army, if I am clear

15     now.

16             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.  Does that help you, Mr. Djordjevic?

17             MR. DJORDJEVIC: [Interpretation] I hope that it helps all of us.

18     At any rate, that's the answer the witness gave us.

19        Q.   I have to go back to the 28th of July, 1999, statement where,

20     having read the entire statement carefully, I must say that you did not

21     mention the police once.  You solely mentioned the army and

22     paramilitaries.  My search engine on the computer said that in the 2008

23     statement you mention the police on 29 occasions and not once in your

24     1999 statement.  So how come nine years later you mention the police 29

25     times and you did not mention them once back in 1999 when you testified

Page 4646

 1     to the events that had transpired shortly before and when your memories

 2     were fresh?

 3        A.   I already gave the answer.  I have no other answer.

 4        Q.   You haven't answered my question though.  How come that you did

 5     not mention the police in 1991 a single time?  You kept referring to

 6     regulars, and on a couple of occasions you mentioned some irregulars, but

 7     that was it.

 8        A.   I don't remember to have mentioned the irregular -- irregulars in

 9     my statement.

10             Since you are saying this, I'm repeating.  There were police and

11     army.  I don't know, but I'm saying now that this is what they were, and

12     I'm saying this in full responsibility, irrespective of what you are

13     putting to me in respect of my statement.  I am saying this not because I

14     want to accuse anyone by saying that but because this is how it was.

15        Q.   I will put to you another part of your statement of the

16     28th of July, 1999, which does not tally with what you said in 2008.

17             You say the following on page 2, I think paragraph 3:

18              "I went a short distance away so as not to be killed in front of

19     my family.  The rest of the family and some 40 guests which had taken

20     refuge in my house remained inside."

21             That's what you said in 1999, whereas nine years later, you say

22     that in your house there were 17 members.  It is paragraph 7 of your

23     statement.  You say:

24              "In May 1999 I was in Qyshk with my wife and family."

25             THE INTERPRETER:  Would Mr. Djordjevic please slow down when

Page 4647

 1     quoting.  Thank you.

 2             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] May I answer it?

 3             JUDGE PARKER:  Please.

 4             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] In 2008 I was asked only about my

 5     narrow family, and I wasn't asked about the overall number of guests in

 6     my family.  That's why I stated my narrow, close family.  My brothers --

 7     the extended family, including my brothers, their wives and son,

 8     consisted of 17 members.  The truth is that there were 40 others, women,

 9     children, men who were there, but I wasn't asked at that time this

10     question that you're putting to me now in 2008.

11             MR. DJORDJEVIC: [Interpretation]

12        Q.   Thank you.  In 1999, you -- or, rather, the person who questioned

13     you called those people guests, but it is clear to all of us in the

14     courtroom that one cannot have 40 guests in the house.  Who were these

15     people?  If I understood well, these 40 people were there on top of the

16     17 members of your family.  Am I correct?

17        A.   If you insist on me saying what you want, yes, these people were

18     people living about 200 or so metres away from me house.  They left their

19     houses and came and found shelter in my village -- in my house.  They

20     were from the same village but from a higher up place, and they were

21     about 40 persons.  My family -- extended family members were 17 persons.

22     So they were from the same village but living a little bit further away.

23     Is the answer I gave you.

24        Q.   Two hundred metres away from your house?  Is that what you said?

25        A.   Two hundred, 300, far from the Peja town.  Called Fushe e Pejes,

Page 4648

 1     Peja Field.  I don't know how more explicitly can I describe it.  It is

 2     part of the village but it is called Fushe e Pejes, Peja Field.

 3        Q.   Thank you.  How many men were there, say between the ages of 20

 4     and 60 save for yourself?  Were your brothers there as well, as well as

 5     the neighbours who had arrived?  Out of the total figure, how many men

 6     were there aged between 20 and 60?

 7        A.   When do you mean?

 8        Q.   At that time.

 9        A.   You mean the people who were gathered in the courtyard of my

10     house?

11        Q.   Let me try to be more precise.  You say that at the moment when

12     you left the house, when your mother asked you to go out so as not to be

13     killed, you say that those 40 guests remained in the house in addition to

14     your family and you left.  That is, I presume, the 14th of May, 1999.

15             I'm asking you this:  Who remain in the house?  your brothers?

16     your neighbours?  Were there any men there, or was it all just women and

17     children in the house?

18        A.   In my statement I said women and children.  You have the

19     statement.  If you ask me, I can -- if their Honour, Judges, ask me

20     questions I may answer them, but otherwise you have everything in my

21     statement.

22        Q.   In the statement you said:

23              "I went a distance away so as not to be killed in front of my

24     family.  The rest of the family and some 40 guests who were in my house

25     remained behind."

Page 4649

 1             You did not mention any women and children.  That is why I'm

 2     asking you this.  Were there any men in your house when you left?  Where

 3     were your brothers, for instance, since you said you had two?

 4             In your statement, in paragraph 7 in the statement of 2008, and

 5     paragraph 3 of your statement from 1999, this is what you say, and my

 6     conclusion is that everyone remained in the house except for yourself.

 7     That's why I'm asking you were there any men there.  If you can tell me,

 8     please.

 9        A.   I am repeating that after I saw the police and the army, I went

10     home.  I told everyone what I saw.  We were having coffee.  The people

11     went in the direction of the village.  I remained at home.  I went to my

12     first neighbour, told them what was happening, and I saw them leave the

13     house and head somewhere.  I don't know where.  This is the truth.  And I

14     was not asked then at the time when I gave the statement where and who.

15        Q.   That is why I'm asking you for the last time.  Did your two

16     brothers remain in the house as well as some other men or not on that

17     occasion?

18        A.   As I said, they left before me.  I left afterwards.  As soon as I

19     told them that the army and the police had entered the village, they

20     left.  I remained in the house.  When my mother insisted that I leave

21     too, I left.

22        Q.   Thank you.  Mr. Berisha, since in 1999, as well as in 2008, you

23     used the term "paramilitary" on several occasions.  What do you

24     understand by that term?

25        A.   I don't understand your question.

Page 4650

 1        Q.   In your interview to the investigators of this Tribunal, on

 2     several occasions you used the word "paramilitary."  I'm interested in

 3     the following:  What do you understand that term to mean, and then I will

 4     have a follow-up question.

 5        A.   I don't know.  You can ask me a follow-up question or a next

 6     question, and if I remember, then I can come back to this one.

 7        Q.   Therefore, I can conclude that you do not know what

 8     "paramilitary" means.

 9        A.   No, I don't know.  I'm not saying that I don't know, but I will

10     not respond to this question.  I'm talking about police and army.  I

11     don't know what you call them, paramilitaries or something else.  I don't

12     know what others call them.  They might as well call them paramilitaries,

13     but for me, for a person who saw everything with his own eyes, they were

14     police and military.  This would be my answer to your question.

15        Q.   I agree with you as regards 2008 but not 1999, because in 1999

16     you mentioned paramilitaries, and I think in 2008 you did too.  In any

17     case, thank you.

18             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Djordjevic, as I understand the evidence of

19     the witness, it is that he did not use the word "paramilitary."  He can't

20     say what whoever it was that interviewed him may have written down, but

21     he says he did not use the word "paramilitary."

22             Now, that may explain why your question is not relevant in his

23     mind to what events happened in April and in May, because he says, "I

24     only spoke of the police and the military."

25             I've understood you correctly there, have I, Mr. Berisha?

Page 4651

 1             The witness acknowledges yes.

 2             MR. DJORDJEVIC: [Interpretation] I would have understood the

 3     witness had he not -- I understand, Your Honour.  I would have understood

 4     him, but he had said that he did not wish to respond.  If he had remained

 5     with the answer, "I don't know," I would have understood that.  In any

 6     case, I will move on.

 7        Q.   How many kilometres away from Cuska one comes across the village

 8     of Pavlan?

 9        A.   They are adjacent to each other if I understood you correctly.

10     There is no kilometre between them.  There's just like a line, a

11     borderline that divides the two.

12        Q.   What about the village of Zahac?

13        A.   Possibly two and a half or three kilometres far from Qyshk.  From

14     Qyshk.

15        Q.   The village of Lodja?

16        A.   From Qyshk?

17        Q.   Lodja.

18        A.   From Qyshk you mean?

19        Q.   Yes.

20        A.   Three or more kilometres.  I don't know for sure.  I'm talking

21     about distance as the crow flies.

22        Q.   Do you have any knowledge whether anyone from your village of

23     Cuska belonged to the KLA?

24        A.   I know that Agim Ceku was the commander of the KLA.  For others,

25     I don't know.

Page 4652

 1        Q.   In addition to Agim Ceku, do you know of anyone else from the

 2     village being a member of the KLA?

 3        A.   I don't know of anyone else.

 4        Q.   Given that Lodja is only three kilometres away from Cuska, were

 5     you a witness to or do you have any knowledge of the fierce fighting

 6     between the KLA and the Serb forces, that is to say the military, in

 7     1998?

 8        A.   I didn't see it myself, but I did hear gunshots.

 9        Q.   Did you hear of any fighting that took place?

10        A.   There were fightings.

11        Q.   Perhaps from your neighbours?

12        A.   [No interpretation] --

13        Q.   Thank you.  What are your brother's names?

14        A.   -- reputation.  Can you repeat your question, please?

15        Q.   What are the names of your brothers with whom you shared the

16     household?

17        A.   Nezir Berisha and Fadil Berisha.

18        Q.   Were you ever accused by the security forces of Serbia that you

19     or your brother Nezir took part in the illegal smuggling of arms via

20     Decani, Glodjani, and Cuska, as well as into the field, onwards?

21        A.   This is the first time I hear about this.  I was never accused in

22     my whole life for such incidents.  I wish it were true, this what you

23     just put to me, but as I said, this was the first time I heard about such

24     accusations, from you.

25        Q.   Thank you.  Was there anyone else in Cuska who shared the same

Page 4653

 1     first and last name?

 2        A.   There is by my first name but not by my last name.

 3        Q.   The same first and last name, Berisha, Hazir.

 4        A.   By name Hazir, yes.  By last name, Berisha, Hazir Berisha, no.

 5        Q.   Thank you.  Do you know who is Tahir Kelmendi?  From Cuska.

 6        A.   He lives in my village, co-villager of mine.

 7        Q.   How far is his house from yours?

 8        A.   About 300 metres as the crow flies.  He lives in another road,

 9     and I live in another road in the village.

10        Q.   Did you see him during that time, around the 14th of May?

11        A.   No.  I don't remember.

12        Q.   Do you have any knowledge of certain events in the area and

13     municipality of Pec pertaining to any Serb civilians being kidnapped?  Do

14     you know anything about that?

15        A.   No.

16        Q.   Do you have any knowledge about whether -- or, rather, that there

17     were many killed members of the police and military in the area of Pec?

18        A.   I don't know why you're asking me this question.

19        Q.   Do you have any knowledge of that or not?  That's all I'm asking

20     you.

21        A.   No.

22        Q.   Do you know of Salipur, a policeman from Pec being killed by KLA

23     terrorists?  Do you have any knowledge of that?

24        A.   I would say the opposite of what you're saying.  Salipur was

25     killed.  I don't know when and by whom.  I don't know who are these

Page 4654

 1     terrorists that you're saying.  I am here as a witness, and it's the

 2     other side that committed terror and terrorism there.

 3        Q.   Thank you.  My question was this:  Do you know of any killed

 4     soldiers or policemen?  You said you didn't know of any terrorists but,

 5     however, I conclude that you did know of Salipur being killed, although

 6     you don't know who killed him.  In any case, I'll move on.

 7             Before the events in 1999 and until May of that year, did you see

 8     any patrols, army or police patrols, comprising any members of Serb

 9     ethnicity from the nearby settlements of Pec, Nakle, Gorazdice in

10     uniform?  Did you see such people passing through your village or did you

11     have occasion to see them in Pec when you went there?

12        A.   You mean soldiers or policemen wearing uniforms?  Can you please

13     put to me shorter and clearer questions, because I really don't

14     understand your questions.

15        Q.   I mean all of them, soldiers, policemen, those in camouflage

16     uniforms, those with bandanas, with hats.  Did you see any neighbours of

17     yours in any uniforms or outfits of that sort?

18        A.   If you're referring to Serbs, that's a different thing.  If

19     you're referring to neighbours living around my house, then that's a

20     different thing.

21        Q.   My question was clear.  Nakle, Gorazdice, and Pec.  I limited

22     myself to your neighbourhood.

23        A.   In Nakle, Gorazdice, wherever you're saying, the Serbs had

24     uniforms issued to them by the state.  They -- all of them had uniforms

25     in their homes.  Everybody was aware of that, and I don't know why you're

Page 4655

 1     asking me this question.  It was public knowledge that they had uniforms

 2     issued.

 3        Q.   Was any of them present on the 14th of May, 1999, in your village

 4     when the massacre took place?

 5        A.   I did mention those that I saw.  Maybe there were others from

 6     Gorazdice.

 7             THE INTERPRETER:  The interpreter didn't get the name of the

 8     person.

 9             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Whereas the others, I don't know

10     where they came from.

11             MR. DJORDJEVIC: [Interpretation]

12        Q.   The people you referred to are indeed Popovic and Kastratovic.

13     You say you recognised them since you knew them by sight.  Where did you

14     see them before that?  And you saw some of the photographs.  What can you

15     tell me about Kastratovic, for instance?  Where does he hail from?  What

16     was his age?  Do you know what his occupation was, and where did you

17     personally see them -- see him, because you said you knew him by sight.

18        A.   As I said, I knew him by sight.  I saw him when he came to Qyshk

19     on the 14th of May and on the 16th and the 17th.  This would be my

20     answer.

21        Q.   Had you ever seen him before that point in time?  Kastratovic, I

22     mean.

23        A.   Are you saying before the 14th?  I think I was clear.  On the

24     14th and also on the 16th or the 17th.

25        Q.   May or April?

Page 4656

 1        A.   We have two separate dates, 16th and 17th of April and

 2     14th of May.

 3        Q.   Was Kastratovic wearing the same uniform on both occasions you

 4     saw him, Mr. Berisha?

 5        A.   Yes.

 6        Q.   What sort of uniform was it?  What did it look like?

 7        A.   I think I mentioned it several times earlier.  It was a green

 8     camouflage uniforms -- uniform.

 9        Q.   What sort of weapons did he sport?

10        A.   Automatic rifle.

11        Q.   When did you first see his photograph?

12        A.   After the NATO troops entered.  We're talking about his

13     photograph; right?  After the NATO troops entered Kosova, they found

14     photographs in their homes and on various locations where they

15     photographed themselves.  They brought them to me and asked me if I knew

16     those persons.

17        Q.   Did they bring the photographs to you, or did they show you

18     Kastratovic's photograph on the screen of a laptop?

19        A.   I already said the following:  They had left photographs behind

20     in their homes, and then they brought these photographs to us because

21     they didn't have computer with them.

22        Q.   Who brought you the photographs?  Who are they?

23        A.   I don't remember who they were.

24        Q.   Tell me, did you know Salipur by sight, the one you said

25     conducted himself toward the ethnic Albanians in a particularly sadistic

Page 4657

 1     way, the policeman from Pec?  Is that right?

 2        A.   He was tall and thin and referred to by his nickname Salipur.  I

 3     didn't know him in person, but I saw him in Peja on several occasions.

 4     Therefore, I knew that he was policeman even before the critical time.

 5     And I saw with my own eyes how he maltreated occasional passers-by.

 6        Q.   When did you see his photograph?  Was it on the same day you saw

 7     Kastratovic's photograph?

 8        A.   I don't remember.

 9        Q.   Do you remember who was it who showed you his photograph?

10        A.   I already told you several times I don't remember who.

11        Q.   Did you see Popovic before the 14th of May and the 17th of April,

12     and if so, where?

13        A.   I didn't see him before these dates.

14        Q.   Did you observe anything peculiar about Popovic, either in his

15     gait, in the way he walks, or in the way he talks?

16        A.   I don't remember.

17        Q.   When was his photograph shown to you and in what form?  Was it a

18     photograph or was it a laptop image?

19        A.   I will repeat it as many times as you wish.  After the NATO

20     troops entered Kosovo, these photographs were found and they were shown

21     to me.  I don't know by whom.  To be more clear, I don't remember who

22     brought those photographs to me.

23        Q.   To avoid putting the same question to you about other

24     individuals, is what you say the same for all the photographs that were

25     shown to you?

Page 4658

 1        A.   For these photographs on which I identified the participants in

 2     the events, all of them were brought to me after NATO troops entered

 3     Kosova.  Who brought them to me, I don't remember.

 4        Q.   Nebojsa Minic, did you know him before the 14th of May events?

 5        A.   14th of May.  I referred to the incident before the 14th of May,

 6     that is, 16th and 17th of April, and if you keep asking me the same

 7     question, I'll keep answering you in the same way.

 8        Q.   My question is as following:  Did you know Nebojsa Minic before

 9     the events of the 16th and 17th of April and the 14th of May?  Did you

10     ever see him before that period?

11        A.   I don't remember.

12        Q.   Very well.  You say that you were brought these photographs

13     following the KFOR arrival in Kosovo.  What did they do with the

14     photographs afterwards?  Did they leave them behind in your hands or did

15     they take them along?

16        A.   No.  They just showed me the photographs.  They didn't leave any

17     of the photographs with me.

18        Q.   Since we are supposed to have your technical break an hour and a

19     half into our session, I will now put one more question to you before the

20     break.

21             In your testimony today, you did not mention anyone bringing any

22     photographs to you.  Rather, you said that a book was given to you by way

23     of a gift for your participation in the investigation and that it was

24     through the book that you came to recognise these individuals.  Now you

25     stated something quite different.

Page 4659

 1             Can you please account for or reconcile for us these two

 2     statements that you made in the space of half an hour that all of us were

 3     able to hear in the courtroom today?

 4        A.   The truth is that immediately after the war these pictures were

 5     brought to us, but even later the book that you mentioned contained these

 6     photographs, and I identified the same persons.  The same persons brought

 7     the book.

 8             JUDGE PARKER:  Is that a convenient break, then, Mr. Djordjevic?

 9             MR. DJORDJEVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, before the break

10     can I tender the questionnaire that I referred to as D003-0348 into

11     evidence lest I should forget after the break.

12             JUDGE PARKER:  That will be received.

13             MR. DJORDJEVIC:  Thank you, Your Honours.

14             THE REGISTRAR:  And that will be assigned D00117, Your Honours.

15             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Berisha, we're going to have another break

16     now, and we'll continue until about 7.00.  Is that convenient?  Very

17     well.  We will -- sorry?

18             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.

19             JUDGE PARKER:  Sorry -- thank you.  We will adjourn now, then,

20     until 10 past 6.00.

21                           --- Recess taken at 5.43 p.m.

22                           --- On resuming at 6.10 p.m.

23             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes, Mr. Djordjevic.

24             MR. DJORDJEVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.  I will

25     resume my cross-examination.

Page 4660

 1        Q.   In order to fully clear up the relevant portion of your

 2     statement, I will have to continue putting questions to you about the

 3     individuals you purportedly recognised in the photographs.

 4             In paragraph 69 of the 2008 statement, you say:

 5             "I did not recognise anybody I knew."

 6             Am I right if I say that you had not known any of these

 7     individuals earlier on, but you subsequently recognised them in the

 8     photographs you were shown as those who participated in the events of the

 9     14th of May or the 17th of April?  Is that what this particular sentence

10     from your statement means?

11        A.   Your question is rather long.  Can you please make it shorter so

12     that I can follow it?

13        Q.   In paragraph 69, you state:

14             " ... but did not recognise anybody I knew," and you were

15     referring to soldiers and policemen, and you say that you could not

16     know -- "I'm unable to say what units any ever of them operated with but

17     I did not recognise anybody I knew."

18             Therefore, my question:  Can I conclude that you didn't know any

19     of these persons before the events of the 14th of May, 1999?  And in

20     respect of some of them, you said that you also saw them on the

21     17th of April.  Am I right in drawing this conclusion or not?

22        A.   If you want me to please you, I said before the 16th or the 17th

23     I didn't know them, the ones that I identified by names, that I saw in

24     several photos.  But if you're asking me about something else, then I

25     might give you another explanation.  This is my answer.

Page 4661

 1        Q.   Thank you.  That was precisely my question, the one that you

 2     answered.

 3             I'd like to know the following:  This is a question put to you by

 4     my learned friend which did not receive a clear answer.  You say that you

 5     believe that whatever happened happened because the Serbs took revenge.

 6     You say that revenge was the cause of all these actions on their part.

 7     Can you tell me what exactly you meant by saying that revenge was at the

 8     root of all of their actions?

 9        A.   I think I was clear enough when I said in answer to the question

10     that it was revenge against NATO, because allegedly it was us who asked

11     for NATO, and that being the case, they took revenge against us, killing

12     Albanians and doing what I have testified about here, to cut a long story

13     short.

14        Q.   Thank you.  Can I conclude that prior to that there had never

15     been any hostilities between the two nations?

16        A.   I wouldn't say that, because it's common knowledge both for

17     Albanians and for the Serbs that the hostilities started much earlier on,

18     but I'm speaking about the revenge they engaged in after the NATO

19     interfered, because in that case they wanted to do more than they had

20     already done.  They started to purge the villages from Albanians, to send

21     them to Albania, maltreating people and doing many other bad things,

22     whereas in our case we were unfortunate enough to be killed, but the

23     actual hostilities had started much earlier.

24             I might add something.  May I?

25             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes.

Page 4662

 1             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] We didn't have any hostilities with

 2     the Serb families living with us, but these hostilities involved the

 3     Serbian authorities.  I didn't have anything against my neighbours, Serb

 4     neighbours.  We didn't kill anyone.  We didn't set fire to anyone's

 5     house, but what you are putting to me refers to the authorities, to the

 6     government, not to us.

 7        Q.   Thank you for your answer.  You said that there were three Serb

 8     families living in your village, i.e., the village of Cuska.  You said

 9     that there had never been any hostility in their respect.  Did they

10     continue living in your village?

11        A.   They lived there until they themselves decided to leave.  They

12     remained in Qyshk until KFOR left the place, but then they left for

13     Serbia.  I have no other answer to give you.

14        Q.   Thank you.  At paragraphs 43 and 47, you say that you observed

15     the commander making a gesture which made you believe that he had ordered

16     certain ethnic Albanians from Cuska to be executed by those under his

17     command.  You described his gesture as him placing his hands one above

18     the other and moving them and that you understood this to believe an

19     order for execution.  And at paragraph 47 when you say you observed a

20     soldier making the same gesture to his commander, that you believed that

21     this meant that the order had been carried out.

22             Can you tell me, what made you conclude, first of all, that this

23     was an order for an execution; and secondly, that the second gesture, the

24     same gesture, meant that the order had been executed?  Where did you get

25     that from?

Page 4663

 1        A.   I came to that conclusion after hearing the gunshots and after

 2     seeing the smoke coming out of the houses.  By that gesture, that was my

 3     personal inference, I understand that that was the case, and in fact it

 4     came out to be true.

 5        Q.   Did you subsequently recognise the commander who made this

 6     gesture or the soldier who reported with the same gesture that the order

 7     had been carried out in the photographs you were shown?

 8        A.   Which soldier are you talking about?

 9        Q.   Apparently in paragraph 47 you say that the soldier made the same

10     gesture to his commander.  He crossed his hands in the same way, and you

11     say that you took this to mean that the man had been -- that the order

12     had been carried out; whereas in paragraph 43, you mention this gesture

13     for the first time, and you say that you understood this to mean that the

14     men should be killed; whereas at paragraph 47 you said:  "Upon seeing the

15     same gesture again, I took this to mean that the men had been killed."

16     The second time, it was one of the men making the gesture, not the

17     commander.

18        A.   Yes.  The soldiers who made that gesture with his hands is

19     Popovic.  That was the one I recognised, and I think I mentioned that in

20     my statement.  There were over 70 persons present there.  I couldn't

21     recognise them all.

22        Q.   [Overlapping speakers] -- commander?

23        A.   I'm repeating.  Since he was the person who gave orders -- he was

24     one of the two who gave orders.  I thought that he was their leader and

25     their commander.  And I'm repeating.  That was my assumption.

Page 4664

 1        Q.   Did you recognise the commander, the one who was referred to in

 2     paragraph 43 of your statement and who issued the order by making the

 3     gesture the way you understood it?

 4        A.   I meant Srecko Popovic.  He was the person whom I recognised in

 5     the middle of April and on -- he was again there on the 14th.  But I

 6     think I've answered this question for the umpteenth time.  I have no

 7     other answer to give you.

 8        Q.   Thank you.  Throughout this time, although your family was told

 9     that it would be driven out of Kosovo, the families did, nevertheless,

10     remain in the area, although moving locally.

11             THE INTERPRETER:  The interpreter didn't catch the name of the

12     locality mentioned by Mr. Djordjevic.

13             MR. DJORDJEVIC: [Interpretation] The town of Pec.

14             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Can you please repeat your

15     question?  I am not clear.

16             MR. DJORDJEVIC: [Interpretation]

17        Q.   Did your entire family remain in Kosovo throughout the time?

18        A.   Yes.

19        Q.   Did anyone specifically from Cuska -- was anyone from Cuska

20     driven out to Albania or Montenegro, regardless?  At any rate, across the

21     borders of Kosovo.  That's what I meant.

22        A.   I said in my statement they took them until the entrance to the

23     city two times, and then they returned them.  The reason why they asked

24     them to return and why didn't let them leave, I don't know.  I only know

25     that the police and the army sent them back when they arrived at the

Page 4665

 1     entrance to the city.  The order was given to them to go back to the

 2     village.  And this is my answer, and I have repeated it several times.

 3        Q.   Therefore, I am right in saying that nobody from the village of

 4     Cuska was driven out across the border of Kosovo.

 5        A.   I'm talking about that day.  I don't know about other times.

 6     That date, no.

 7        Q.   Do you have information about any other period of time in 1999,

 8     specifically about Cuska?

 9        A.   I don't recall anything.

10        Q.   Thank you.  My next question:  You said that the room you were in

11     which was set on fire, you left that room by clambering out through the

12     window.  In addition to the injuries suffered to your legs and in

13     addition to the fact that you could hardly breathe for the smoke that was

14     around, were you at all enveloped by the flames?  Were you engulfed by

15     the flames?

16        A.   I'm repeating that because of the smoke, because of that gas that

17     was thrown in the room, my face caught fire.  And because of the burning

18     and the gas that I inhaled, I couldn't breathe and that I left that room.

19     I think I gave a very clear answer.

20        Q.   Thank you.  You said that you were wounded to your left leg and

21     that it was an entry/exit wound.  You also said that there was a shot

22     which broke the shank of your right leg and that your right knee was also

23     injured.  You said that you treated your wounds for about a month, and

24     then on the 15th or the 16th of June you went to the hospital in Pec.

25     Therefore, a month later.  You told us who it was who took you in and

Page 4666

 1     dressed your wound.  You said that you gave all the medical documentation

 2     concerning your injuries to the investigators.  Or you told them that

 3     they could go and see the documentation for themselves in the hospital.

 4             This isn't clear.  Did you really provide them with medical

 5     documentation from the Pec hospital or did you merely give them your

 6     approval, your consent for them to go to the hospital and look at your

 7     medical file there?

 8        A.   I don't understand.  What are you asking me about?  Whom?

 9        Q.   I'm referring to paragraph 74 of your statement from May 2008.

10        A.   I gave what I was asked for.  I don't know anything about the

11     Peja hospital.  Can you make the question clearer?  I don't understand

12     it.  Make it shorter, please.

13        Q.   Paragraph 74 of your statement:

14              "As a result of the incident, I have scarring to my legs," et

15     cetera, et cetera.  "I give the ICTY my permission to examine any medical

16     records in relation to my treatment for these injuries."

17             My question is:  What medical records are you referring to and

18     from what hospital?  Is it the Pec hospital?

19        A.   I showed them the wounds, and I told them that if it was

20     necessary for them to trace this issue further, they were free to do so.

21     I have mentioned the date when I went to the Peja hospital.  It was about

22     six weeks later, I think.

23             You have my wound as a document to show everything.  You don't

24     need anything else.

25        Q.   Am I correct in saying that on the 14th or the 15th of June you

Page 4667

 1     went to the Pec hospital to continue your treatment in 1999?

 2        A.   Yes.  Either the 14th or the 15th of June it was.

 3        Q.   Thank you.  How long did you remain in the hospital?

 4        A.   I don't remember how long I remained.  I think about three weeks,

 5     but the recovery period lasted more than a year, because I had to undergo

 6     surgery in my right leg which was broken, and it took me more than a year

 7     to recover, but I had to undergo surgery in the Italian -- KFOR Italian

 8     hospital.

 9        Q.   Were you operated on in the hospital in Pec?

10        A.   They put the plaster, then after a year I underwent surgery.  The

11     reason for that was they didn't have the necessary means and equipment,

12     and they hoped that my leg would recover, and after a year or so I was

13     obliged to go to the Italian hospital, KFOR Italian hospital.  They

14     admitted me in and operated on me there.

15             You can inquire there if you want to prove what I'm telling you

16     is right.

17        Q.   What was the name of the doctor who treated you in the hospital

18     in Pec?

19        A.   Who administered me the first aid, who put the plaster on my --

20     on my right leg was Isak, Isak Alicani [phoen], orthopaedician.

21        Q.   Concerning this incident you went through, were you subsequently

22     given any documentation from the Pec hospital or the Italian hospital,

23     any discharge forms or case histories that you handed over to the

24     investigators of this Tribunal?

25        A.   I didn't get anything from the Peja hospital, but I did get a

Page 4668

 1     couple of such medical records from the Italian one, and I think they are

 2     with the investigators.  One of them is Samuel.

 3             THE INTERPRETER:  The interpreter didn't get the proper name.

 4             MR. DJORDJEVIC: [Interpretation]

 5        Q.   Thank you for your answers.  My last question concerning your

 6     medical status is this:  Do you believe them to have it or are you

 7     certain you handed those records over, the medical records and reports?

 8        A.   Only from the Italian KFOR medical staff.  They might have gotten

 9     a copy of the records.  I've attended many check-ups, daily, weekly,

10     monthly check-ups.  I think there was no need for me to go into detail

11     with them for each and every record, because my injuries were proof to

12     what had happened to me.

13        Q.   The last set of questions I have for you in my cross has to do

14     with the members of the Jasovic family.  You mentioned certain family

15     members by their first and last names as people that you saw carrying a

16     Serbian flag.  Could you please clarify the context of that part of your

17     story for me since it was unclear to me after I read the statement.

18     These were your neighbours.

19        A.   Yes.  I didn't say whether they had uniforms or not.  What I said

20     was that they came to the village.  They were carrying smaller flags.

21     They came exactly on the spot where we were gathered.  I saw one of them

22     with a lady.  I don't know who this lady was.  Later on, two others came

23     also carrying flags and went exactly on the spot where the incident

24     occurred near the graveyard.  From there they continued along another

25     path, and from thereon I could no longer see them.  I don't know where

Page 4669

 1     they went to.

 2             This is what I saw with my own eyes, and I'm stating it with full

 3     responsibility.

 4        Q.   I believe I understand now, but the entire background about the

 5     sporting of flags is unclear to me.  Did they have uniforms on, and what

 6     in general was taking place concerning the Jasovic family members

 7     referred to in this context?

 8        A.   What context are you talking about?  I really don't get your

 9     question.

10        Q.   You said you saw Velibor Jasovic, I believe, as well as some

11     other people of the Jasovic family carrying a Serbian flag.  You knew

12     those people since you were neighbours.

13             What was that situation in particular that you saw them?  Did

14     they have weapons on that occasion?  Did they wear uniforms?  That is

15     what I would like to know.

16        A.   As I said, Vidoje and another lady and the others, they came

17     carrying the smaller flags.  I didn't mention any uniforms.  Where I saw

18     him, he was there in a company of a lady whom I didn't know, carrying a

19     flag.

20        Q.   Without a uniform?  He did not wear a uniform?

21        A.   When I -- when I saw them, no, they -- he didn't.

22        Q.   Thank you.

23             MR. DJORDJEVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, this concludes my

24     cross-examination of this witness, and thank you.

25             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you, Mr. Djordjevic.

Page 4670

 1             Ms. Gopalan, any re-examination?

 2             MS. GOPALAN:  Yes, Your Honours.

 3                           Re-examination by Ms. Gopalan:

 4        Q.   Mr. Berisha, I have a few questions for you arising from

 5     Mr. Djordjevic's cross-examination.

 6             You were asked today about uniforms that had been issued to

 7     Serbs.  At page 56, line 6, you said:

 8             "Serbs had uniforms issued to them by the state.  They all had

 9     uniforms in their homes."

10             Could you tell us, Mr. Berisha, when was it these uniforms were

11     issued to the Serbs, if you recall?

12        A.   I don't recall the exact date, but I would say it was in the

13     beginning of 1998, if I'm not mistaken.

14        Q.   Thank you.  And when you say these uniforms were issued by the

15     state, are you able to explain what exactly or who you are referring to

16     when you say "the state"?

17        A.   Yes.  When I say the state, what I mean is that the police and

18     the army are part of the state.  They're commanded by the state.

19             In early 1998, if I'm not mistaken, it was the police that began

20     to distribute uniforms to those locations inhabited by Serbs, whereas the

21     areas inhabited by Albanians were not issued with uniforms, Qyshk village

22     being one of them.

23        Q.   If you know, Mr. Berisha, in addition to the uniforms being

24     distributed to these locations inhabited by Serbs, do you know if

25     anything else was issued together with the uniforms?

Page 4671

 1        A.   Together with uniforms, weapons were issued.  I wasn't there to

 2     see the distribution, but all of them were armed.  There are facts that

 3     corroborate this statement of mine.  They were issued both uniforms and

 4     weapons.

 5        Q.   Thank you.  And in relation to the uniforms being issued, how did

 6     you know that these uniforms were issued?

 7        A.   From the media and the citizens, and on several locations during

 8     the war I saw them wearing uniforms.  If you do a more thorough

 9     investigation into this, you will come to the same facts to what I'm

10     telling you now.

11        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Berisha.  You were asked some questions today

12     about an individual named Salipur, and at page 58, line 12, you refer to

13     having seen Salipur maltreating occasional passers-by.  Could you tell us

14     when you saw Salipur maltreat these passers-by, if you recall?

15        A.   This occurred before 1998, if I'm not mistaken.  It happened

16     before 1998 in the town of Peja.

17        Q.   Thank you.  And when you say "maltreating," what exactly do you

18     mean?

19        A.   What I mean is that he would stop them, ask for their documents,

20     and on many occasions he would beat the citizens in the presence of

21     others.  This once happened in the market, in the grocery market, in Peja

22     town, and I personally witnessed this incident.

23        Q.   Thank you.  If you recall, how many of these incidents did you

24     witness yourself?

25        A.   I don't recall.  With the exception of this one that I mentioned,

Page 4672

 1     I do not recall.

 2        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Berisha.  You were also asked some questions today

 3     about the hand gesture made by the senior soldier which you took to be an

 4     order for execution.  This is at page 64, line 4.  And you replied saying

 5     you came to that conclusion after hearing gunshots and after having seen

 6     smoke coming out of the house.

 7             Could you tell us which house you were referring to in this case?

 8     This is in response to a question in relation to paragraph 47 of your

 9     statement.

10        A.   I'm referring to the house of Syl Gashi from which Isa Gashi

11     survived.

12        Q.   How many men were taken to the house of Syl Gashi?  If you know.

13        A.   Approximately 12 or 13.

14        Q.   And with the exception of Isa Gashi who you have mentioned, what

15     happened to the remaining men who were taken to Syl Gashi's house?

16        A.   They were all killed and burnt.

17        Q.   Thank you very much, Mr. Berisha.  I have no further questions

18     for you today.

19             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you, Ms. Gopalan.

20             Mr. Berisha, you'll be pleased to know that completes the

21     questions for you.  The Chamber would like to thank you for coming to

22     The Hague and for the assistance you have been able to give, and we have

23     now not only your statement but also the answers you've been able to give

24     today to assist us in our consideration of this case.  We thank you very

25     much, and you may now, of course, return to your ordinary --

Page 4673

 1             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] By your leave, Your Honours, I

 2     would also like to extend my gratitude to you and the Prosecutors, as

 3     well as the lawyer for his provoking answers.  I'm here to tell the truth

 4     and nothing but the truth.  I am a person who went through the incident

 5     that we discussed today.  I am stating here with full responsibility that

 6     all these things I experienced myself, and I really regret the fact that

 7     for all these years they didn't find the time to express their regret for

 8     what happened in Kosova.

 9             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you very much.  The court officer will now

10     show you from the court.

11             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.

12                           [The witness withdrew]

13             JUDGE PARKER:  There seems little point in commencing the next

14     witness at this hour, so we will adjourn until the morning.

15             Could I mention we will be following an unusual timetable in the

16     morning, because we need to adjourn at 10 minutes to 10.00, as the new

17     registrar will be sworn in and the Judges will be present on that

18     occasion.  We expect -- but we cannot be entirely confident, but we

19     expect to be able to return to court by 10.30.  So we will adjourn at 10

20     minutes before 10.00, and we hope to be back by 10.30 to continue the

21     hearing with two further sessions.  We should not lose very many minutes,

22     but we will have a different timetable for the morning.

23             With those words, we will now adjourn to resume tomorrow at 9.00.

24                           --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 6.55 p.m.,

25                           to be reconvened on Tuesday, the 19th day

Page 4674

 1                           of May, 2009, at 9.00 a.m.