Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 11498

 1                           Wednesday, 17 February 2010

 2                           [Open session]

 3                           [The accused entered court]

 4                           --- Upon commencing at 9.01 a.m.

 5                           [The witness takes the stand]

 6             JUDGE PARKER:  Good morning.  The affirmation you made to tell

 7     the truth still applies.  If you could please sit down.  And Ms. Kravetz

 8     continues.

 9             MS. KRAVETZ:  Thank you, Your Honour.

10                           WITNESS:  MILOS DOSAN [Resumed]

11                           [Witness answered through interpreter]

12                           Cross-examination by Ms. Kravetz:  [Continued]

13        Q.   Good morning, sir.

14        A.   Good morning.

15        Q.   I have very few questions left for you, so I hope we are going to

16     conclude your testimony quite quickly this morning.

17             Sir, yesterday, we spoke quite at length about the action called

18     Reka in the Carragojs and Trava valley; do you recall we went over that

19     in quite some detail yesterday?

20        A.   Yes, I remember that.

21        Q.   Sir, during the course of this trial, we have heard evidence that

22     during the course of this action Reka, hundreds of Kosovo Albanian

23     civilians who lived in the area of the Carragojs valley and Trava valley

24     were expelled from their homes by members of units who participated in

25     this action.  Do you have any information on that, sir?

Page 11499

 1        A.   I have information to the effect that the action took place, but

 2     civilians certainly were not a target for expulsion.  The basic aim of

 3     that action was to destroy the Siptar terrorist forces.  The civilian

 4     population was certainly no target of any kind of abuse, expulsion

 5     included.

 6        Q.   We also have evidence, sir, in this case, that members of the

 7     units who participated in this action killed around 300 civilians, men

 8     and boys, during the course of this action.  Do you know anything about

 9     that?

10        A.   Later on, there was talk about that; I read about it later.  But

11     I do not have any immediate knowledge from that time.

12        Q.   When you say "later on there was talk about that," which period

13     are you referring to that you heard talk about that?

14        A.   Well, after 2000, say in the year 2001.  As the book appeared,

15     the one that I mentioned yesterday, "Kosovo, As Seen, As Told."  Before

16     that, I had not heard anything or seen anything about that, or did I have

17     any direct evidence least of all.  The only information I had with regard

18     to that event was based on that book and things that were written in the

19     press, and they were probably written on the basis of that book actually.

20        Q.   Yesterday, sir, when we were discussing one of your statements

21     you gave to the commission for co-operation regarding the Cerim district,

22     you told me that a small part of your unit, a maximum of 20 men, were

23     based at a wine cellar some 400, 500 metres from the Cerim district.  Do

24     you remember giving that evidence yesterday?

25        A.   Yes, I said that, approximately.  That many, yes.

Page 11500

 1        Q.   Sir, we have heard testimony in this case that some of the men

 2     captured during action Reka were held at a wine cellar in the area of the

 3     Cerim district, and that these men later disappeared and have not

 4     since -- have not been heard from or seen since.  Do you know anything

 5     about that, sir?

 6        A.   No, no.  I don't know anything about that.

 7        Q.   Did you not hear anything from any of your subordinates about

 8     men, Kosovo Albanian men, being held in a wine cellar in the area of the

 9     Cerim district?  You got no reports about that?

10        A.   No.  The members of my unit spent a very short period of time at

11     that particular locality.  They were on the move all the time, so they

12     spent a little bit of time there as well.  So I have no knowledge of

13     that, and it is impossible that these people were there at the same time

14     when my soldiers were.

15        Q.   I see, sir.  Sir, we also have evidence indicating that the

16     bodies of some of the persons of the victims of this Reka action were

17     buried at the Rekovac [phoen] cemetery right outside Djakovica.  Do you

18     know anything about that?  Did you hear anything at the time?

19        A.   No, nothing, I heard nothing about that.  This is the first

20     information I received about that.

21        Q.   In your contacts with the Djakovica SUP or the president of the

22     municipality you heard nothing?  No one told you anything?

23        A.   No one ever told me anything.

24        Q.   And, sir, we have also witness testimony and forensic evidence in

25     this case that shows that the remains of the persons who were killed in

Page 11501

 1     this action Reka were found at a mass grave in the firing range of

 2     Batajnica outside of Belgrade.  Do you have any information on that?  Do

 3     you know anything about that, sir?

 4        A.   I know about that from the press, just like I found out about

 5     that previous information.  So this was written about in Belgrade at that

 6     same time, after 2000, when that book appeared.  Before that, I did not

 7     know a thing about any of that.

 8        Q.   You would agree with me, sir, that 300 bodies is quite a large

 9     number of bodies to move all the way to the Batajnica firing range

10     outside of Belgrade, wouldn't you, sir?  This is quite a large number of

11     bodies; you would require quite some organisation and planning to move

12     such a large number of bodies from Djakovica municipality all the way to

13     a locality outside of Belgrade?

14        A.   Well, I can say that if that is indeed the case, that is a

15     complicated operation, and a very unusual one.  It -- to my mind, it is

16     quite incredible, and that is why I can hardly believe that that kind of

17     thing crossed anyone's mind at the time, let alone carried it out.  If

18     someone indeed did carry that out, they must have known exactly when the

19     NATO air force would strike and when it would not strike.

20             At that time, NATO air force was striking all the time, including

21     at passenger vehicles, privately owned.  So that story is quite

22     unbelievable as far as I'm concerned.  And what is even more unbelievable

23     for me is that someone transported such a large number of corpses that

24     far away.

25        Q.   And you are saying, sir, that at the time you heard nothing about

Page 11502

 1     any transfer of bodies from the municipality where you were based to a

 2     locality outside of Belgrade?

 3        A.   Nothing, nothing.  I had no idea about that.  No idea whatsoever

 4     until the press started writing about it.

 5        Q.   Now, sir, during the course of your testimony yesterday and the

 6     previous day as well, you were shown portions of the statement of one of

 7     your former subordinates Nike Peraj and you went -- and you were asked to

 8     comment on portions of the statement; do you recall that, sir?

 9        A.   Yes, I recall that.

10        Q.   Can you recall, sir, that repeatedly you said, when my learned

11     colleague was reading out to you portions of Mr. Peraj's statement,

12     you -- your responses were that the portions that were read out to you

13     were not true, contained lies, were pure fabrications?  Do you recall

14     giving those answers yesterday, sir?

15        A.   My answers were that most of the statements were incorrect.

16     There were also some that were correct, inter alia that I was brigade

17     commander and that he was in this brigade, that we were in Djakovica.  So

18     not all of his answers were incorrect.  Most of the answers contained in

19     his statements were incorrect.  If you remember, that is what I had

20     actually said yesterday.

21        Q.   I'm not going to put to you each one of the responses that you

22     gave to my learned colleague, but I recall, sir, that you did not only

23     say that some of the answers were incorrect, in fact, you said that these

24     were pure lies, fabrications, that what Mr. Peraj was saying was not

25     true.  Do you recall saying that, sir?  You spoke about lies and

Page 11503

 1     fabrications?

 2        A.   For me an incorrect thing and a lie are one in the same thing.

 3     If you say that something is incorrect, that means that the person who

 4     uttered that uttered a lie.  I don't see any difference really between

 5     incorrect and a lie.

 6        Q.   One of the portions of the statement that was put to you is

 7     paragraph 95 which says:

 8             "Dosan," and that's a reference to you, "did not agree with the

 9     operation in Korenica and Meja and arrested Micunovic for his involvement

10     in it.  However, Micunovic was released some three days later."

11             And your response to that was that none of this is true.  Do you

12     recall giving that answer, sir?

13        A.   Yes, yes, that was the answer I gave and that is what I assert.

14     I did not arrest Micunovic; I am not aware of Micunovic having been in

15     prison; and I'm not aware of his being set free by a man of Seselj's or

16     whatever, or whoever he mentioned.

17        Q.   You maintain, sir, that you have no knowledge of what transpired

18     during the course of this operation in Korenica and Meja?

19        A.   I had knowledge that pertained to my own unit, which was, after

20     all, my duty to have that knowledge, that is.

21        Q.   Sir, you've told us about your career as an officer in the VJ,

22     and I take it, sir, that given your vast experience as a soldier, you are

23     quite familiar with the laws of war?

24        A.   Of course.  Of course I am aware of the laws of war, and I

25     insisted upon that all the time.  I transmitted that knowledge and

Page 11504

 1     experience to my subordinates; I gave them orders to abide by that; and

 2     we familiarised the soldiers to the extent to which it is relevant for

 3     them.

 4        Q.   Given your experience and knowledge in the laws of war, sir, you

 5     would agree with me that the deliberate killing of civilians in an armed

 6     conflict by either members of the army or of the police constitutes a war

 7     crime?

 8        A.   Of course, especially if it is being committed deliberately,

 9     intentionally, by inhumane means.  Of course.  Any killing is

10     problematic.  The killing of civilians in particular.  Every war is

11     problematic as well, so I think that that is an answer that you can get

12     from anyone.  No one has to be an eminent expert in humanitarian law in

13     order to be able to answer that.

14        Q.   And as an officer with a long career in the VJ, you wouldn't want

15     to have any involvement with an action that led to the commission of a

16     war crime, sir, would you?

17        A.   As an officer of the Army of Yugoslavia, I would never allow a

18     crime to be committed; I would particularly not allow my units that I

19     command.  I condemn every crime, and I would report any crime to my

20     superiors regardless of who might have committed it.

21        Q.   And can I take from that answer, sir, that you would, in fact, do

22     everything possible or that you could do to distance yourself from any

23     action, military action, that involved the commission of a war crime?

24        A.   I distance myself from any crime and any act that results in a

25     crime, so you can consider that to be my answer.  Yes.

Page 11505

 1        Q.   And, sir, if an order to distance yourself from the commission or

 2     from an action that led to the commission of a war crime like the one I

 3     have been referring here today, the killing of 300 men, if an order to

 4     distance yourself from such an action, if that would involve coming here

 5     to discredit a former VJ colleague of yours, Captain Nike Peraj, you

 6     would do that, sir, wouldn't you?

 7        A.   I don't quite understand your question.  Of course I distance

 8     myself from any crime.  Not a single one of our actions was planned in

 9     such a way so as to know that there would ultimately be a crime

10     committed, and I would not take part in any such thing.  If you think

11     that we commanders who took part in that action knew or thought in

12     advance that a crime would be committed, then it's not fair on your part.

13     Crimes were never planned.

14             Actions were never planned that included crimes.  Actions were

15     always planned only to fight against terrorist forces, or, rather, to

16     engage air targets.  That is what the air defence specifically did.

17     Specifically not a single action was ever planned with the intention of

18     it including a crime.  That is totally wrong.  It is totally wrong to say

19     that.  And I can energetically state that I and anyone else from the army

20     would distance himself from that.

21        Q.   My question was a bit more specific, sir.  You said, Of course I

22     distance myself from any crime.  If, in order to distance yourself from

23     such a crime like the one we've been speaking about today, you had to

24     come here to The Hague and discredit the testimony given by a former VJ

25     colleague of yours, Nike Peraj, you would do that, sir, wouldn't you, in

Page 11506

 1     order to distance yourself from this crime?

 2        A.   As I gave my statement here with regard to the allegations made

 3     by him, I think that in that way, I am discrediting his statement, what

 4     he said.  I don't see what else you mean by distancing myself or

 5     discreditation.  I'm saying that what he said was not correct.  I

 6     distance myself in this way from him and from his statements.

 7        Q.   And you're saying that, sir, because you do not want to be seen

 8     in any way linked to any crimes that may have taken place during action

 9     Reka; correct?

10        A.   Of course that no one can link me in any way with alleged crimes

11     anywhere, action Reka included, if these crimes actually did take place.

12        Q.   Okay.  Thank you for your answers, sir.

13             MS. KRAVETZ:

14             Your Honours, I have no further questions for this witness.

15             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you very much.

16             Mr. Popovic.

17             MR. POPOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.

18                           Re-examination by Mr. Popovic:

19        Q.   General, I would like to go back to the 24th of March.  Can you

20     tell us what Major Odak said to you about Katolicka Street and whether he

21     had seen anything personally?

22        A.   Yes.  He told me that he saw the rocket fall or the cruise

23     missile, it's hard to see.  It was night-time and it's hard to see when

24     the speed is so big, but he did see the projectile fall in

25     Katolicka Street.

Page 11507

 1        Q.   Thank you.  After the projectile fell, did a fire break out in

 2     that street?

 3        A.   Yes.  Since I was in shelter, I heard this, I didn't see it.  But

 4     soon afterwards, Katolicka Street was ablaze.

 5        Q.   Thank you.  Yesterday you spoke about refugees that were passing

 6     by in waves, as you had said, in the beginning of April.  I think that

 7     remained unclear, so my question to you is were these refugees from the

 8     town of Djakovica or from other areas in Kosovo-Metohija?

 9        A.   I explained, as I was showing the map, where the NATO air force

10     was striking, and it is certain that refugees from Djakovica, that is to

11     say, those who were closer to the border, and those from Prizren too,

12     that they appeared sooner or faster at the Albanian border.  The others

13     were assembling there, those coming from far away places.  They were

14     mostly moving on tractor or on foot.  They assembled in certain areas.

15     From time to time, they were hindered by air-strikes.  Very often bridges

16     were destroyed on the roads that they took.  So even if they wanted to,

17     they could not have arrived at the same time when the refugees from

18     Djakovica or specifically Prizren, but since I'm talking about Djakovica,

19     when they arrived at that territory.  It is only natural that those who

20     have to take the longest road are going to take the longest period of

21     time to reach their objective.

22        Q.   Thank you.  My learned friend quoted General Petkovic's statement

23     to you, and you said that you knew him.  But she only quoted a certain

24     part of the statement.  I'm going to quote another part of that

25     statement.  Paragraph 6.  Do you know that General Petkovic used

Page 11508

 1     ammunition containing depleted uranium from the 30th of March onwards?

 2        A.   I know General Petkovic.  I'm not aware of his statement.  I did

 3     not look at his statement.  However, I was down there; I saw those

 4     aircraft appear.  They appeared there towards the end of March.  That is

 5     aircraft carrying that kind of ammunition only.  On the other hand, it is

 6     a readily recognisable type of aircraft by its form and by the sound it

 7     generates.  You don't even have to see an A-10, you can hear it.  It has

 8     a special kind of engines.  Also it has a special kind of purpose.  It is

 9     intended to instill fear in people, just like the Stuka aircraft in the

10     Second World War had that function.  The A-10 had that same purpose.

11        Q.   Thank you, General.  Now I would like to deal with the following:

12     A part of your statement in the Milosevic [as interpreted] case on page

13     45436 was quoted to you when you said why operation Reka was started.

14     However, on page 45438 of the same transcript, you still speak about

15     operation Reka and the reasons why they were taken, and you say, This

16     area where operation Reka took place was the area where a land aggression

17     is -- was supposed to take place.  That was Normandy for the terrorists.

18             So were those the reasons that you mentioned as the reasons for

19     starting or launching operation Reka?

20        A.   Yes, of course.  Those were the basic reasons.  And I claim to

21     this day that that is what the beach head or the bridge head was supposed

22     to be, and the terrorists were supposed to start from there in order to

23     continue their journey as a land aggression.  I used these picturesque

24     terms.  I said at that time that Reka was indeed what Normandy was for

25     opening the second front on the west.

Page 11509

 1        Q.   Thank you, General.  Yesterday you were shown P1540, the

 2     statement of Lieutenant-Colonel Zlatko Odak of the

 3     26th of December, 2002.

 4             MR. POPOVIC: [Interpretation] Can we please see that document

 5     now, page 2 in both versions.

 6        Q.   General, in the second paragraph, Zlatko Odak states as follows:

 7             "As far as I recall, I took the seal-off line with the company at

 8     630 hours and we were 30 minutes behind schedule because there was a

 9     delay in fully establishing a linkup between the platoons in the company

10     and with the neighbours to the left and right."

11             When it says that they were 30 minutes behind schedule, what does

12     that actually mean?  According to that, when did the Reka action start?

13        A.   It started at 600 hours on the 27th of April, 1999.  He arrived

14     somewhat later to the start position, or, as he refers to it, the

15     seal-off line.  The action was planned to start at 600 hours on the

16     27th of April.

17        Q.   Thank you.  General, tell us how long on that day were you in the

18     company of General Lazarevic?

19        A.   I said that I left the ceremony at around 1300 hours since my

20     positions were the furthest.  Some commanders who were stationed closer

21     to Pristina stayed for a bit longer, but I was the first to leave.

22        Q.   Thank you, General.  If a corps commander is coming to the

23     forward command post, would you be advised of that, and was there a

24     possibility that the Chief of Staff and the corps commander be in the

25     same location during war time operations?

Page 11510

 1        A.   No, this would not be customary, and it certainly would be

 2     un-wise.  They are never in the same place, for security reasons.  Also,

 3     they are not supposed to ride in the same vehicle at the same time or be

 4     in the same place.  There were constant NATO air-strikes, and they could

 5     have been hit at any point in time.  And in that case, if they were

 6     together, the corps would in one go be left without the commander and the

 7     Chief of Staff.  We applied the same principle in my unit.  Myself and my

 8     Chief of Staff were basically never in the same location together, for

 9     the very reason of the possibility that if the commander is killed, the

10     Chief of Staff is the one who is supposed to assume command.

11        Q.   Thank you, General.  Now, let's go back to operation Meja.  Was

12     this a wider-ranging operation?  Was it bigger in terms of size?  Because

13     you have already explained the difference between an action and

14     operation.

15        A.   Action Meja was important and necessary, but it was not a

16     wide-ranging action neither by the amount of forces nor by its length in

17     terms of time.  It was necessary to undertake it, but that area did not

18     require a great deal of forces or prolonged periods of time of engagement

19     of those forces in that action.  It was a forested terrain for the most

20     part, and more lethal assets could not be used there.  One could only use

21     lighter weapons.

22        Q.   Thank you, General.  Do you know what duties Nike Peraj performed

23     in the VJ while he was its member?

24        A.   Nike Peraj was in my unit where he was officially appointed as

25     the desk officer of the operations section of the staff.  I also know

Page 11511

 1     that the chief of security engaged him according to his plans.  Security

 2     organs are entitled to do so.

 3             On several occasions, my chief of security when I asked him where

 4     are you taking Peraj, he would say, Commander, he's been an associate of

 5     ours for quite some time.  And, as a rule, commanders did not try to

 6     interfere with that part of the work.  I know that he collaborated with

 7     the security organ, and, among others, that was one of the reasons why he

 8     was transferred to Djakovica.  He was brought closer to home as a way of

 9     rewarding him for the assistance he offered to the army.

10        Q.   Thank you, General.

11             MR. POPOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, this concludes my

12     examination.

13             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

14                           Questioned by the Court:

15             JUDGE BAIRD:  I have a few questions for you.  I shall try to be

16     as brief as possible.  Now, you commanded the 52nd ARBR of the VJ

17     stationed in Djakovica.  Now, did you have any reservists under your

18     command at all?  Any reservists?

19        A.   Of course, there were reservists.  Reservists are soldiers,

20     people who are kept in the reserve until such time when they are called

21     to join a unit.  As of the moment they joined a unit, they are no

22     different to anyone else in terms of their rights, duties, or insignia.

23     They belong to that part of the defence system which is dormant in

24     peacetime.  Once a war is underway, they are mobilised into units,

25     becoming their integral part.  And as of that moment, they are no longer

Page 11512

 1     reservists.

 2             JUDGE BAIRD:  Thank you.

 3        A.   In slang terms, they were usually referred to as such.  But the

 4     truth is that they were not.

 5             JUDGE BAIRD:  Now, you said that there were no paramilitaries in

 6     Djakovica, didn't you?

 7        A.   Yes, this is what I said.

 8             JUDGE BAIRD:  Did you ever hear of Arkan's Tigers at all?

 9     Arkan's Tigers?

10        A.   I heard of Arkan's Tigers after the war, there was much

11     discussion and writing about it, but --

12             JUDGE BAIRD:  For example, during the war when you were in

13     Djakovica, did you hear of them at all, Arkan's Tigers?

14        A.   No.  No, of course not.

15             JUDGE BAIRD:  Seselj's White Eagles?

16        A.   No.

17             JUDGE BAIRD:  Or Frenki's men?

18        A.   No.  I neither heard of them at that time nor seen them at the

19     time.  I had no information of them being accommodated anywhere in the

20     town of Djakovica.

21             JUDGE BAIRD:  Now, you said that some things in Peraj's statement

22     were incorrect and some were correct, didn't you?

23        A.   I said that most of Peraj's statement is incorrect and that only

24     small portions are correct.

25             JUDGE BAIRD:  Now, is it correct that in March, after the NATO

Page 11513

 1     bombing started, you refused the request of a group of 50 men to stay in

 2     Djakovica saying that you would not allow them to loot?  Is that correct?

 3        A.   It is not.

 4             JUDGE BAIRD:  I see.  Now, again, you said you saw refugees

 5     coming in waves, groups of 200 to 300 to 350, didn't you?

 6        A.   Yes.

 7             JUDGE BAIRD:  Okay.  And they would gather or assemble at a

 8     particular place, wait from -- for one another, and they would then

 9     continue their journey together; am I right?

10        A.   Yes, you are.  I never saw individual families moving about.

11     They mostly moved in columns.

12             JUDGE BAIRD:  Splendid.  Now, were these people escorted by

13     forces of the MUP?

14        A.   No, no.

15             JUDGE BAIRD:  Were they escorted at all?

16        A.   No, they were not.

17             JUDGE BAIRD:  I see.  Were there any check-points set up at all

18     along the way?

19        A.   There were no check-points along their routes.  There were

20     check-points in certain locations to control the traffic, but they were

21     not there for the sake of the refugees.  The check-points had existed

22     prior to the mass exodus.  They were not set up for them or because of

23     them.

24             JUDGE BAIRD:  Thank you.  Now, you gave reasons as to why they

25     were leaving Djakovica, you gave three reasons, basically.  And very

Page 11514

 1     briefly I'll run through them.  You said the first was fear of

 2     indiscriminate and persistent NATO bombing, especially fear of ammunition

 3     containing depleted uranium; that was the first basic reason you gave,

 4     agreed?

 5        A.   That was not the principle reason.  It was one of the reasons.

 6             JUDGE BAIRD:  Right, one reason, fair enough.  The other reason

 7     was, again, I would summarise, fear of cross-fire?

 8        A.   There were other reasons.

 9             JUDGE BAIRD:  But that was another reason, good.  And the third

10     reason you gave was persistent propaganda and fear of retaliation if they

11     did not move out?

12        A.   That is correct.

13             JUDGE BAIRD:  Now, then, I want some clarification as to what

14     followed.  You said the situation was such that a normal person could

15     hardly take it.  You said:

16             "I'm an air force officer, and I was afraid.  There were soldiers

17     who did not dare leave shelter."

18             Are you with me so far?

19        A.   Yes, I agree with that in full.

20             JUDGE BAIRD:  You said:

21             "Fear is a normal phenomenon, especially for those who do not

22     know and who cannot seek shelter or mask themselves and take other

23     measures in order to protect themselves from air-strikes."

24        A.   That is correct.

25             JUDGE BAIRD:  But, now, I'm a bit confused because are you

Page 11515

 1     joining the first reason to the third reason?

 2        A.   I don't know what is confusing you.  What I can tell you is that

 3     it is normal to feel fear.

 4             JUDGE BAIRD:  No, no, I'm not -- no.  You gave the first reason

 5     as fear of indiscriminate and persistent NATO bombing, and the third

 6     reason as persistent propaganda and fear of retaliation if they did not

 7     move out.  But then you continued on and you spoke of you were afraid

 8     there were soldiers who did not dare leave shelter.  And then you said it

 9     is a "phenomenon, especially for those who do not know ... who cannot

10     seek shelter or mask themselves and take other measures in order to

11     protect themselves from [shelter]."

12             Now, shelter was the first reason, was it not?

13        A.   Well, I said that the first reason was the fear of bombing, which

14     was persistent and indiscriminate.  Then the fear of being caught in

15     cross-fire because the terrorists, once NATO air-strikes began, revealed

16     themselves abruptly and began attacking our units.  It was actually a

17     co-operation of the terrorists and NATO aviation.  The units which were

18     supposed to engage NATO aircraft were constantly being exposed to

19     terrorist attacks.

20             As the commander, I can tell you that NATO aircraft killed three

21     of my soldiers.  Fourteen were killed by terrorists from the ground as

22     the soldiers were trying to fend off the aircraft.  There was direct

23     co-operation between NATO aviation and the terrorists on the ground.

24     They helped each other.  In military parlance it is called co-operation

25     and support.

Page 11516

 1             JUDGE BAIRD:  Thank you very much.  I have one last question for

 2     you.  Now, you referred to paragraph 97 of Nike Peraj's statement and you

 3     said that:

 4             "Nike Peraj gave that evidence before the court because he was in

 5     a situation where he had to choose between truth on one hand and life on

 6     the other."

 7             You were convinced that:

 8             "He was forced into doing that and he had no choice, he was

 9     either to say that or to lose someone close to him."

10             Do you recollect saying that?

11        A.   Yes, I recall that.

12             JUDGE BAIRD:  But my question is this:  How do you know that?

13        A.   I have read Nike Peraj's statement.  He said that he was on the

14     list of those who were supposed to be killed by the KLA.  He also said

15     that immediately after leaving the VJ, military police came for him and

16     took him to KLA headquarters.  With the assistance of NATO, the KLA moved

17     into certain areas because they lay low previously to that.  Once NATO

18     aircraft began engaging us, they began attacking full force.

19             Even without him saying so, it would only be logical that he be

20     exposed to threats because he was with the unit throughout the period

21     from the beginning until the end of the war.  He was a member of the army

22     throughout.  To them it meant he was with the enemy.  Although we were

23     the official armed force of that state, they treated us as enemies.  That

24     is how they behaved.  They opened fire on us, they kidnapped our

25     personnel, killed our personnel.  Those who were part of enemy formation

Page 11517

 1     were eventually to be brought under pressure or under their law, so to

 2     speak.

 3             JUDGE BAIRD:  Those were the two sources that you derive this

 4     information from?

 5        A.   I don't know what a third source could be more convincing than

 6     that, than him saying that he was on the list to be shot.  He was

 7     supposed to be liquidated.

 8             JUDGE BAIRD:  I thank you very much indeed.

 9             JUDGE PARKER:  You will be pleased to know that that concludes

10     the questions.  The Chamber would thank you for your attendance in

11     The Hague and for the assistance you have been able to give.  You may,

12     of course, now return to your normal activities, and a Court Officer will

13     show you out.  Thank you.

14             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.

15                           [The witness withdrew]

16             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Popovic.

17             MR. POPOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

18             Before we call the next witness, I would like to use this

19     opportunity, when my learned friend Ms. Gopalan is present, to notify the

20     Court that we have prepared D510, which is derived from the testimony of

21     Witness Gojevic [phoen], according to your instruction.

22             We forwarded that notification to the OTP, and I believe we are

23     in agreement as to what that document should look like in keeping with

24     the suggestions of the witness.  I have here the ERN number, it is

25     D011-2257, which is actually D510.

Page 11518

 1             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.  And that will now be incorporated in

 2     the transcript as the Exhibit D510.  I notice it's in the transcript

 3     page 20, line 9, as D150, it should be D510; is that correct?  Thank you

 4     very much for that, both of you.

 5             Now, the next witness.

 6                           [The witness entered court]

 7             JUDGE PARKER:  Good morning, sir.

 8             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good morning.

 9             JUDGE PARKER:  Please read the affirmation aloud that's shown to

10     you.

11             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will

12     speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

13             JUDGE PARKER:  Please sit down.

14             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.

15             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Djurdjic has some questions for you.

16             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

17                           WITNESS:  MILUTIN FILIPOVIC

18                           [Witness answered through interpreter]

19                           Examination by Mr. Djurdjic:

20        Q.   [Interpretation] Good morning, sir, Colonel Filipovic.  For the

21     sake of the transcript, please tell us your first and last name and date

22     of birth.

23        A.   Good morning.  My name is Milutin Filipovic.  Father's name:

24     Slobodan.  I was born on the 25th of November, 1948, in Pristina.  That

25     is it concerning my personal data.

Page 11519

 1        Q.   Thank you.  Colonel, on the 27th and 28th of November, 2007, you

 2     testified in the Milutinovic case before this Tribunal.  If I put the

 3     same questions to you today, would you provide the same answers?  This

 4     Defence has enabled you to reread your previous testimony.

 5        A.   Yes, I would provide practically the same answers as I did on the

 6     27th and 28th of November, 2007.

 7        Q.   Thank you.

 8             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, that transcript is

 9     number D010-1920.

10             Could we please have that brought up.

11             I seek to tender that into evidence.

12             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

13             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, it will be received as

14     Exhibit D00712.  Thank you, Your Honours.

15             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I don't know whether

16     you can hear what I'm saying actually.

17             JUDGE PARKER:  We can, Mr. Djurdjic, especially when your light

18     is on.

19             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.  I would now like to

20     present the summary of witness Milutin Filipovic.  The witness was born

21     in 1948 in Pristina, is now a retired colonel of the VJ.  During

22     1998 and 1999, the witness held the post of deputy commander of the

23     Pristina Corps in charge of personnel and housing matters.

24             In the period of 1986 to 1992, he had performed various duties in

25     the bodies of the Territorial Defence of the Autonomous Province of

Page 11520

 1     Kosovo-Metohija.  As of the 29th of March, 1999, by order of the

 2     commander of the Pristina Corps, in addition to his regular duties, he

 3     was appointed head of the group of the command of the Pristina Corps in

 4     the Pristina garrison.

 5             The witness was head of the command group as well as provisional

 6     commander of the Pristina garrison.  The witness will also speak about

 7     the period of aggression against the FRY and Kosovo-Metohija during 1999,

 8     about the non-combat parts of the Pristina Corps, such as the military

 9     court, the clinic, the library, et cetera.  Also about the deployment and

10     activities of non-combat groups of the Army of Yugoslavia that were in

11     Pristina, and the surrounding area.

12             Also, he will speak of the attitude of the Army of Yugoslavia

13     towards the civilian population.  The witness will speak about the

14     deployment and locations of the command of the Pristina Corps during the

15     war in 1999.  He will present his knowledge about the activity of

16     terrorist forces during 1998 and 1999, with special reference to the

17     territory of the town of Pristina and the surrounding area.

18             He will particularly explain the situation in the villages

19     outside Pristina on the immediate eve of the war and during the war

20     itself, namely 1998 and 1999, like the villages of Ajvalija, Maticane,

21     Susice, et cetera.  Also about the city neighbourhoods of Vranjevac,

22     Dragodan, and so on.  The witness will present his knowledge to the

23     effect that there were no deportations or expulsions in Pristina or the

24     surrounding area.  He will familiarise us with the functioning of public

25     institutions and public utilities during the war, especially from the

Page 11521

 1     point of view of social welfare, food supplies, medical care for the

 2     population, et cetera; also, radio and TV station broadcasts, printed

 3     media, and the functioning of religious places of worship in Pristina.

 4             He will tell us about the situation in Pristina and the

 5     surrounding area during air-raids.  He will tell us about the locations

 6     where that happened, and it's effect on the life of civilians in

 7     Pristina.  He will also tell us about terrorist activities during the

 8     war.

 9             He will make us aware of the personal contacts he had with

10     civilians during the war.

11        Q.   Colonel, you and I speak the same language.  I would like to ask

12     you to speak at a pace that will make it possible for the interpreters to

13     do their job so that we could all have an accurate transcript, and that

14     is the aim of your testimony, to be recorded correctly in the transcript.

15     I will take care to do the same thing.

16             You are now a retired colonel.  Could you tell us, briefly, what

17     work you did before you retired and when it was that you retired?

18        A.   Well, I can, as briefly as possible.  I will tell you which

19     positions I held.  Like many officers, after I completed the military

20     academy, I was first commander of a platoon and then a platoon in the

21     military police, then I was company commander in the military police,

22     then assistant battalion commander for morale in the military police.

23     Then I was operations officer in a brigade, operations officer in a zone

24     staff of the Territorial Defence, of Pristina that is.  Then commander of

25     the Territorial Defence of the municipality of Pristina, and assistant

Page 11522

 1     commander of the Pristina Corps for personnel issues and mobilisation,

 2     assistant commander of the Pristina Corps for personnel matters, and

 3     later on assistant commander for personnel in housing matters.

 4             The positions that you also mentioned during your summary, the

 5     positions I held during the aggression, and that would be it.  After

 6     that, I served for another three years in the guards brigade, and then I

 7     retired in 2003.

 8        Q.   Thank you.  Could you tell me, briefly, up until the

 9     29th of March, 1999, which position did you hold in Pristina -- in the

10     Pristina Corps?

11        A.   I was assistant commander of the Pristina Corps for personnel and

12     housing matters.

13        Q.   Thank you.

14             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have D006-2525.

15     Your Honour, if you allow me, we'd like to give the witness a binder

16     containing hard copies of the documents that we will use so that we could

17     work more efficiently.

18             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes.

19             THE WITNESS:  Thank you.

20             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

21        Q.   Colonel, number 1, we see it on our screens now.  This is an

22     order of the command of the Pristina Corps dated the 30th of March, 1999.

23     It has to do with the establishment of a group within the corps command.

24     We see, under number 1, that you were appointed leader of that group and

25     temporary commander of the Pristina garrison as well.  I would now like

Page 11523

 1     to ask you to tell us briefly what the elements were within that group

 2     that was established on the basis of this order?

 3        A.   Well, as you can see from this document, this group was rather

 4     comprehensive.  It included an organ for garrison affairs and the entire

 5     organ for personnel and housing affairs; the entire section for

 6     presenting the situation in air-space; parts of the operation centre; the

 7     chief of air surveillance and warning; parts of the information

 8     technology office; the entire military orchestra; the military club; the

 9     military library; the Military Prosecutor's Office; the military court;

10     and then some other smaller groups at a later point in time.  This is an

11     order I received orally, and it had to do with smaller groups.

12        Q.   Thank you.  What were your duties as the temporary or provisional

13     commander of the Pristina garrison?

14        A.   My duties as temporary commander of the Pristina garrison were

15     prescribed by the rules of service, especially a chapter that had to do

16     with the garrison and the duties of garrison commander.  I think it's on

17     page 51 in the rules of service and around that page.

18             These duties primarily entailed ensuring order and discipline,

19     the proper functioning of services within the garrison, and overall life

20     and work in the garrison that is prescribed by the rules of service.

21             I don't want to go into all of them individually.  There are

22     quite a few of them, and they are rather complex.  That is what I think I

23     should say at this point.

24        Q.   Thank you.  Could you please tell us how many people were in this

25     command group that you headed?

Page 11524

 1        A.   This command group had about 150 to 200 people, sometimes more,

 2     sometimes less; but as the aggression progressed, the group became

 3     bigger.  Personnel levels particularly went up in the field of food

 4     supplies, but basically it's the figure that I mentioned originally.

 5        Q.   Thank you.  Can you tell us about the weapons that the members of

 6     your group had and what kind of uniforms they wore?

 7        A.   Their weapons were prescribed by the war establishment of the

 8     command of the Pristina Corps.  It was basically light infantry weapons,

 9     that is to say, pistols and rifles.  Uniforms of the Army of Yugoslavia

10     were worn, those that were according to regulations at the time in

11     accordance with the rules and regulations that governed military

12     uniforms.

13        Q.   Thank you.  From the beginning of the war until the end of the

14     war did, the members of your command group engage in any kind of combat

15     activity?

16        A.   From the beginning of the aggression, or, more precisely, from

17     the 24th of March onwards until the Kumanovo Agreement was reached, the

18     members of our command group and the Pristina garrison were not engaged

19     in any combat activity whatsoever or were there any armed conflicts that

20     they took part in.  Namely, we did not fire a single bullet or did we

21     point a gun at anyone.

22        Q.   Thank you.  Did you suffer any casualties during the course of

23     the war?  I'm referring to your command group, the one that you headed.

24        A.   From the beginning until the end of the aggression, like many

25     units of the Pristina Corps, our group sustained losses as well.  We had

Page 11525

 1     had two fatalities, and three of our members were wounded.  It was an NCO

 2     who got killed, Izderic, Slavisa; the Siptar terrorists killed him.  And

 3     Dejan Vitorevic [phoen], a soldier, was killed by NATO air-strikes.

 4     Three members of the group were wounded; two officers and one soldier.

 5        Q.   What were their duties when they were killed or wounded?  What

 6     was the work that they were involved in?

 7        A.   Well, basically they were going about their regular duties.

 8     Slavisa Izderic, that non-commissioned officer, was a member of the

 9     military orchestra.  At the time when he got killed, he was passing

10     through the neighbourhood of Vranjevac.  Siptar terrorists fired at him;

11     he was killed; and we could not find his body because the terrorists took

12     him away, as an eye-witness told us.  And a civilian of Serb ethnicity

13     was wounded there.  To this day, his mortal remains, Slavisa Izderic's

14     mortal remains, have not been found, although we immediately went to the

15     scene.

16        Q.   Thank you.  What about the others wounded?

17        A.   Vitorevic was killed close to his house in Pristina, close to the

18     municipal building.  As the military conscript, he asked me for leave to

19     go home during that night, and he was then killed in his house after NATO

20     airplane struck the postal building and the residential area around the

21     post office during the night between the 6th and the 7th of April, 1999.

22             As for the other two officers and one soldier, they were wounded

23     by the Siptar terrorists from fire-arms.

24        Q.   Thank you.  In the document before us, we see that there were

25     groups, subgroups, formed among which there was a subgroup of the

Page 11526

 1     Military Prosecutor's Office and the military court.  What was the

 2     relationship between the corps command group and the group of the

 3     military judiciary or organs?

 4        A.   The corps command vis-ā-vis these two important bodies of the

 5     corps, that is, the Military Prosecutor's Office and the military court,

 6     had a fair relationship from the start.  These two organs in terms of how

 7     they operated were completely independent.  And, as far as I know, they

 8     performed their duties in accordance with the law and first and foremost

 9     the constitution, and the Law on Armed Forces as well as the

10     Law on Military Courts and other relevant regulation regulating the

11     competencies and duties of military courts and military prosecutors.

12             Neither myself nor anyone else from the command group or from the

13     Pristina garrison command exerted no influence whatsoever upon their

14     work.  We only tried to provide sufficient security so that they could

15     work during the period they existed.

16        Q.   This securing of conditions for the work, what did that entail?

17        A.   Oh, it was on different levels and it differed from one period to

18     the next.  I can state a few of our duties because they were numerous.

19     We, for example, secured the building where they were housed.  We

20     provided them with work conditions in the sense that we secured premises,

21     logistics, food, shower, as well as assisted them in summoning jurors and

22     bringing them in the building.  This was a very complex task, because

23     some jurors had to come from areas where Siptar terrorists were active.

24     We also secured them en route.  We provided communication inside the

25     building, et cetera.

Page 11527

 1        Q.   Thank you.  Do you know what the technical composition was of the

 2     military court and the Military Prosecutor's Office during the war?

 3        A.   As far as I know, their composition reflected the ethnic makeup

 4     of the Pristina Corps as well as the entire country to some extent.

 5        Q.   Do you know whether there were any Albanians in the

 6     Military Prosecutor's Office and military court in Pristina during the

 7     war?

 8        A.   Individually speaking, I don't remember everyone from the court,

 9     but I think there were, although I can't tell you which part of the

10     institution they belonged to.  I think, and as far as I can recall, there

11     were some Siptars, especially among technical personnel and those who

12     provided translation.  This is what I can recall off the cuff because

13     it's been quite a while.

14        Q.   Thank you.

15             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I seek to tender this document

16     into evidence, Your Honour.

17             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes, it will be received.

18             THE REGISTRAR:  As Exhibit D00713.  Thank you, Your Honours.

19             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

20        Q.   Mr. Filipovic, did certain elements of your command group provide

21     security as well to certain facilities, and if so, which ones?

22        A.   As is customary otherwise in peacetime, we behaved similarly

23     during the aggression and the war.  We secured our own parts first and

24     foremost.  By providing security for ourselves, we had an impact on

25     general security in the town.  We secured firstly and foremostly the

Page 11528

 1     buildings where we were; and in the general area of the town and the

 2     garrison, there were other facilities where we provided guards and other

 3     internal service organs as envisaged by the rules of service and a number

 4     of orders.

 5        Q.   Thank you.  Did members of your group also provide security for

 6     civilian facilities in Pristina?

 7        A.   Members of our group, if civilian facilities were in question,

 8     provided security only to those facilities where parts of our group were,

 9     as well as parts of our garrison.  So one could say that civilian

10     facilities were secured as well because parts of our group were

11     accommodated in such facilities.

12        Q.   But once an army moves into a building, it is no longer a

13     civilian building.  I'm asking about hospitals or some such civilian

14     facilities.  Did you provide security to such facilities?

15        A.   No, not our group.  Perhaps only indirectly, but not per

16     establishment.  For the most part, such facilities had their own

17     security.

18             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.  Could we please have

19     D006-2528.

20             JUDGE PARKER:  Would it be convenient to have the break before or

21     after?  Now?  We will do that.

22             Could I remind you, Mr. Djurdjic, that we have received the

23     transcript of evidence of the witness.  Your opening summary concerned

24     me.  It seemed to me that you would be going into a great deal of detail.

25     In view of the transcript and that this is a Rule 93 ter witness, we

Page 11529

 1     would ask that you concentrate on only matters of importance.  Thank you.

 2             We will resume at 11.00.

 3                           [The witness stands down]

 4                           --- Recess taken at 10.31 a.m.

 5                           --- On resuming at 11.01 a.m.

 6                           [The witness takes the stand]

 7             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Djurdjic.

 8             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

 9             Could we please have D006-2528.

10        Q.   It is your binder number 2, Mr. Filipovic.  Perhaps you can even

11     take out the document, it may be easier for you.  Here we'll have an

12     overview of manning levels in the Pristina Corps, the

13     28th of February, 1999.  You signed this document.

14             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please go to page 2 next.

15        Q.   I'm interested in the last column and the relation between the

16     last two numbers there.  What was the manning level that day?

17        A.   This is one of the tables of the overview of manning levels of

18     the Pristina Corps per branches and services.  This only includes

19     active-duty members of the Pristina Corps, that is to say, COs, NCOs,

20     civilians, and soldiers under contract.  Here we have soldiers split into

21     two categories.  There were those soldiers who were under an officer

22     contract and other soldiers who were -- rank and file.

23             We see that we had 779 soldiers that were originally requested,

24     whereas the manning level on that day was 711.  Next we have NCOs, the

25     number required and the number available, and so on and so forth.  In

Page 11530

 1     total, there should have been 4.471 active members, and at the time there

 2     were only 2.253.  The manning level was then approximately around

 3     50 per cent with active-duty members.

 4        Q.   Thank you.

 5             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I seek to tender this document.

 6             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

 7             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, that will be Exhibit D00714.

 8             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.  Could we please go to

 9     document D006-2518 next.

10        Q.   This is a document indicating the structure of losses in the

11     Pristina Corps with its resubordinated units during the war.  Can you

12     tell us briefly something about this breakdown?

13        A.   This is one of the indications of the losses of the

14     Pristina Corps with resubordinated units.  There are different approaches

15     to indicating the number of losses.  This is but one such possibility,

16     and you can get brief insight into the losses themselves.  Here we can

17     see that 27 per cent of personnel were wounded, there were 3 per cent

18     missing, and --

19             THE INTERPRETER:  Interpreter's correction:  Killed, 27 per cent;

20     missing, 3 per cent; and wounded, 70.

21             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

22        Q.   We can draw our own conclusions from this cake, I believe.

23             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I seek to tender this document

24     into evidence, Your Honour.

25             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes.  Mr. Behar.

Page 11531

 1             MR. BEHAR:  Your Honours, I'm just not clear what the basis for

 2     the information on that document is.  It's a series of charts.  But it's

 3     my submission we haven't seen a basis to be able to properly rely on the

 4     content of that document.

 5             JUDGE PARKER:  Very well.  If there's some issue about it.

 6             Mr. Djurdjic, would you explore with the witness the source for

 7     the information on these charts.

 8             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I'm trying to abide

 9     by your instructions.  This document was in evidence in the Milutinovic

10     case and explains the part of the transcript where the witness speaks

11     about that topic.  I didn't want to go into any further detail with this

12     document because I believe it was sufficiently clarified in the previous

13     transcript, but we may do so now.

14        Q.   Mr. Filipovic, let's go back to the document --

15             JUDGE PARKER:  If you rely upon the transcript, the document will

16     be received.  If Mr. Behar has some issue or concern, he can take that up

17     in cross-examination, so carry on.

18             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, that will be Exhibit D00715.

19             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

20        Q.   Mr. Filipovic, when the state of war was declared, what did the

21     Pristina Corps Command do concerning its headquarters?

22        A.   When the state of war was declared and when the NATO aggression

23     began, the Pristina Corps resumed its work in keeping with the plans

24     prepared beforehand and in keeping with parts of the mobilisation plan,

25     much as all the other army units.  The Pristina Corps Command moved from

Page 11532

 1     their peacetime location to a number of locations designated beforehand,

 2     and which were later on, depending on the situation, changed, because the

 3     Pristina Corps Command was simply forced to move out of the building

 4     where it used to be in peacetime.

 5        Q.   Thank you.  Can you tell us, from the moment when it moved at the

 6     beginning of the war to the end of the war, did the command ever return

 7     to the peacetime building used by the Pristina Corps?

 8        A.   From the moment it moved up until the end of the aggression, the

 9     command of the Pristina Corps never returned to the building and no one

10     spent any time there.

11        Q.   Thank you.  You said that the Pristina Corps building was empty

12     during the war.  Was it secured and who secured it?

13        A.   Yes.  The building was secured, mainly from the outside, because

14     there was a constant danger that it could be targeted by bombs.  So that

15     it was secured on the outside from quite a distance and the guards organs

16     were in charge -- in charge of that in accordance with the rules of

17     service.  The commander of security was an officer named Vujovic who was

18     deployed at the corps command in peacetime.  He was in charge of physical

19     education.

20        Q.   Thank you.  You told us that the Pristina Corps Command was

21     deployed in various locations.  Please tell us whether any elements of

22     the Pristina Corps Command were deployed at the Grand Hotel?

23        A.   The Pristina Corps Command, as I said, was deployed out of the

24     building where it stayed during peacetime from the beginning to the end

25     of the NATO aggression.  None of its elements were stationed at the

Page 11533

 1     Grand Hotel except for the fact that the information centre was located

 2     there.  And that was also the place where mail was exchanged.  That was

 3     all.

 4        Q.   Thank you.  Can you tell me whether the Grand Hotel was used as a

 5     hotel during the war?

 6        A.   Yes.  The Grand Hotel played numerous roles.  There were guests

 7     staying at the hotel, so were foreign and local journalists.  There were

 8     also rooms that various private institutions had leased earlier on.  The

 9     catering firm called Sloga [phoen] was also stationed there, and it

10     worked without any problems throughout the work.  The director of this

11     company, Sloga was called Dragisa Vuckovic.  There were also other

12     institutions such as tourist agencies, and a branch of Kosmet Tours and

13     many other organisations.  They were also stationed there.

14        Q.   Thank you.  As the information centre was there, as you just

15     said, and considering that this was a military element, was there any

16     security of that part of the building, and who provided the security for

17     the information centre?

18        A.   The entire Grand Hotel and the information centre were secured.

19     The hotel had its own security even before the information centre was

20     established there.  So the security performed their duty during the

21     aggression as well.  As far as I can remember, they stepped it up and

22     they adapted it to war-time conditions.  The personnel of the information

23     centre also had their own internal security, which was covered by the

24     internal service organs.  Some of them were always on duty.

25        Q.   Thank you.  Was one of the functions of the military police to

Page 11534

 1     provide outside security of buildings and facilities?

 2        A.   Inter alia, as far as I can say, the military police also has the

 3     duty to provide security for the military facilities which it is charged

 4     with.

 5        Q.   Did Pristina Corps and 3rd Army commanders visit this place

 6     during the war?

 7        A.   I do not have the information for the entire period of the

 8     aggression.  I just remember that I visited, together with the

 9     Pristina Corps Commander.  We once met at this information centre, and we

10     toured it.  That is what I know.

11        Q.   We'll talk about that later, Mr. Filipovic.  But did commanders

12     from the Pristina Corps or the 3rd Army, from any level, visit this

13     information centre during the war, do you know that?

14        A.   That is possible, but I had my own duties and I do not really

15     remember that well, so I could not say that with much certainty.  It is

16     possible, but what I do remember is the occasion when I visited it.

17        Q.   Do you remember whether there was outside security of the section

18     of the Grand Hotel where the information centre was housed?

19        A.   I remember that there was security, yes, I do remember that.

20        Q.   You just mentioned that on one occasion you also visited the

21     Grand Hotel.  Can you tell us what that occasion was and what happened?

22        A.   Yes, I remember that.  I think it was on the 28th of April.  On

23     the 27th of April, we had a meeting in the damaged building of the

24     provincial Executive Council of Kosovo-Metohija.  The meeting was

25     attended by the corps commander and the 3rd Army commander; medals were

Page 11535

 1     awarded to a number of persons who had been decorated and who were from

 2     the Pristina Corps units.  And after that meeting, the corps commander

 3     General Lazarevic talked to me and I proposed that he tour my command and

 4     the deployment of some elements of my command in Pristina.  He told me

 5     that he was busy that day and that he would visit us the next day.  That

 6     really happened; he visited my command.

 7        Q.   Thank you.  Please tell me whether you had a role in this

 8     ceremony, and do you remember the time of the day when it was held on

 9     that day, the 27th of April, 1999?

10        A.   I could not say exactly what time it was, but it was day-time,

11     somewhere around the middle of the day.  I cannot remember the exact

12     time, but it was daylight.

13        Q.   Thank you.  As for the 28th, how did the Pristina Corps Command

14     visit your command?  How did that happen?

15        A.   Well, the corps commander came to the location where I was, that

16     was very close to the Municipal Assembly of Pristina.  He toured the

17     parts of my command and groups which were stationed in that area.  And,

18     after that, we toured other parts of the command group and the garrison

19     command.

20             Among others, we also visited a part of the group which was

21     stationed in cellars, that is to say, rather, the underground sections of

22     the sports and cultural centre Boro i Ramiz.  So we visited them.  And,

23     after that, we went to the Grand Hotel.  There, we toured the information

24     centre.  So that was what happened on the 28th of April.

25        Q.   Thank you.  Mr. Filipovic, how long were you together with the

Page 11536

 1     Pristina Corps Command on that day, the 28th of April?

 2        A.   Well, it took quite a while.  We were touring these parts of the

 3     command group for several hours.  He was interested in many details.

 4     We --

 5        Q.   Thank you, you've already told us that.

 6             Colonel, where were you born?

 7        A.   I was born in Pristina in 1948, as I said.  In the first

 8     residential block, in building number 5.

 9        Q.   Thank you.  And where does your family originate from?

10        A.   My family originates from Kosovo and Metohija.  My father was

11     born in Gracanica next to the monastery, and my mother was born in

12     Donja Cvracak in Vucitrn municipality.

13        Q.   Thank you.  Can you tell us what is the distance between the city

14     of Pristina and Gracanica?

15        A.   It is between 8 and 9 kilometres.  It depends on the

16     neighbourhood because Gracanica is quite big.  But that's roughly the

17     distance.

18        Q.   Thank you.  Just to make a digression, were you a member of the

19     collegium of the Pristina Corps before the war?

20        A.   I was a member of the commanders collegium of the Pristina Corps

21     for many years before the war.  I was continuously a member since 1992.

22     Moreover, I was the eldest member of the collegium because I was a member

23     during four commanders.

24        Q.   And when you were [as interpreted] appointed the head of the

25     command group of the Pristina Corps?

Page 11537

 1        A.   When I was appointed to the duty of the temporary commander of

 2     the Pristina garrisons and the head of the command group of the Pristina

 3     Corps, I occasionally attending the collegiums of the Pristina Corps, but

 4     sometimes the commander would call me even outside the times when the

 5     collegium would meet.  So my presence was not as frequent at the time.

 6     It was just occasional.

 7        Q.   All right.  Thank you.  Let me ask you this as well, you told us

 8     how far Gracanica is from Pristina, but I also wish to ask you something

 9     about the control of territory in the city of Pristina and its environs.

10     Was there any combat group stationed within the city of Pristina during

11     the war?

12        A.   During the NATO aggression, as far as I remember, there was no

13     combat group or any other combat unit of the Pristina Corps stationed in

14     the city of Pristina.

15        Q.   Thank you.  I would go back to the military police now.  Was

16     there any military police in Pristina, and what were its tasks and duties

17     in Pristina?

18        A.   Well, as far as I remember, the military police was mainly in

19     charge of regulating traffic, primarily military traffic on the roads.

20     Occasionally it also maintained law and order relating to members of the

21     army because it participated in patrols.

22             It also took part in on-site investigations when that was part of

23     the duty of the military police.

24        Q.   Thank you.  Can you tell me whether the administration of the

25     Pristina military district had any units that were operating in Pristina,

Page 11538

 1     and what were their duties?

 2        A.   There was a command of the Pristina military district and also a

 3     command of the Pristina military department.  They were located in the

 4     barracks.  The Pristina military department was subordinated to the

 5     military district command, and they had their military territorial units.

 6     These military territorial units, as far as I can remember, were deployed

 7     in the general area of responsibility from Podujevo to Strpci.

 8             In the general area of the Pristina garrison, there were military

 9     territorial units which, as far as I know, secured the territory and

10     facilities mainly around the perimeter of the city of Pristina.

11        Q.   Thank you.  Was one of the duties of these military territorial

12     units to secure military facilities and other special purpose facilities?

13        A.   Yes, as far as I know, that was the duty of the military

14     territorial units.  At the time, that was one of their duties, to secure

15     territory and specifically to secure facilities, which were of vital

16     importance for the functioning of everyday life in this territory.

17        Q.   Thank you.  You said that your father was born in Gracanica.

18     During the war in 1999, did you ever visit Gracanica?

19        A.   I'm very familiar with the Gracanica village.  I visited it

20     during the aggression, that is to say, I toured that area for a number of

21     reasons.  One specific reason was that it was in the zone of

22     responsibility of the Pristina garrison, and it is part of the Pristina

23     municipality.  Gracanica was the largest Serbian village, that is to say,

24     the village that had the most numerous Serbian population in the

25     territory of Kosovo and Metohija.  So I frequently visited Gracanica and

Page 11539

 1     the surrounding area.

 2        Q.   Colonel, will you tell us in which periods you went to Gracanica,

 3     if you remember?

 4        A.   Well, I cannot give you the exact dates, but I think that since I

 5     was there several times, I was there towards the beginning and towards

 6     the end.

 7        Q.   Thank you.  Were there any civilians in Gracanica, and what was

 8     life like there?

 9        A.   Yes, the population was there in Gracanica, and life was going on

10     as normal, as much as possible in a situation of war.  So war conditions

11     affected all components of life.  Shops did work, bakeries in Gracanica,

12     the health centre, the post office, postal services were functioning,

13     telegrams were received, citizens of Gracanica and from the villages of

14     Ajvalija, Susice, Mramor, Slivovo, Dragovac received their pensions.

15     Also Laplje Selo and so on.

16             So life went on in Gracanica just as usual, although the area

17     around Gracanica was bombed practically every day by NATO, especially the

18     area of a warehouse that was about 500 to 1.000 metres from the centre of

19     Gracanica.  Perhaps it was a bit more than that, perhaps a kilometre and

20     a half.  Detonations were heard every day, but life went on unhindered as

21     much as possible.  Also there was traffic in the centre of Gracanica on

22     the road between Pristina and Gnjilane that is.

23        Q.   Thank you.  Colonel, could you tell us something about your

24     knowledge and your sources of knowledge regarding terrorist activities of

25     the Albanian terrorist forces before the aggression started in 1999?

Page 11540

 1        A.   Before the aggression started, there were many terrorist attacks

 2     that were being committed by the Siptar terrorist forces.  These attacks

 3     were numerous.  The entire population of Pristina and the surrounding

 4     area lived in fear of that.

 5        Q.   Thank you.  Let us first hear of what your knowledge was about

 6     the situation in the villages around the town of Pristina?

 7        A.   During the aggression or before the aggression?

 8        Q.   Before the aggression.

 9        A.   Well, before the aggression, just like in the territory of the

10     entire municipality of Pristina, in these villages there were numerous

11     terrorist attacks.  Practically there was not a single village where some

12     terrorist attack had not been launched by the Siptar terrorists.

13        Q.   Do you have any specific examples that you could give us, and how

14     come you know about these examples, if any?

15        A.   Military facilities were attacked.  Our warehouses in Sofalija,

16     the warehouse right next to Gracanica, and police patrols were attacked,

17     military vehicles that moved along these roads around Pristina.  On the

18     Podujevo-Pristina road near the Devet Jugovica barracks, the Siptar

19     terrorists attacked a military vehicle and Colonel Cedomir Nikolic and

20     Colonel Komordez [phoen] from the 3rd Army were seriously wounded there.

21     They were fired at from the surrounding villages, from the area of Trudne

22     and from the road leading to Prugovac and Grastica.

23        Q.   Thank you.  Do you know whether there were any kidnappings and

24     killings from the villages that were there?

25        A.   There were kidnappings and killings in the surrounding area,

Page 11541

 1     especially east of Gracanica, in the villages of Slivovo, Dragovac, then

 2     many villages that bordered with the territory the municipality of

 3     Pristina to the east of Gracanica, from the territory of Novo Brdo,

 4     Prekovce, Jasenovik.

 5        Q.   Just a moment, please.

 6             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we have D006-2505 on our

 7     screens, please.

 8        Q.   Number 4 in your binder, Mr. Filipovic.  This is a report of the

 9     3rd Army Command, the security department, sent to the Supreme Command

10     staff on the 13th of April, 1999.  I would be interested in paragraph 3,

11     if you can give us your comments on that.  Did you have any knowledge in

12     this regard?

13             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Behar.

14             MR. BEHAR:  Thank you, Your Honours.  I have an objection to the

15     use of this document.  In my submission, there's no basis for the

16     admission of this document.  And, in fact, this issue was dealt with in

17     the Milutinovic case.  And if I could, just with a brief indulgence, take

18     Your Honours to that page.  It's T-19167.  I'm not sure, unfortunately,

19     of the page number.

20             JUDGE PARKER:  The transcript that I've been provided with starts

21     later than that page.  It starts in the course of evidence and not at the

22     beginning for some reason.  It starts at page 19182.

23             MR. BEHAR:  I believe it's page 18 of D712.

24             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, since Ms. O'Leary

25     gave me the beginning of the transcript, 19150 is the page that I have

Page 11542

 1     where Mr. Filipovic starts testifying.

 2             MR. BEHAR:  I think we do have the correct reference on the

 3     screen.  Just to briefly outline the issue, Your Honour, this document

 4     relates to what an eye-witness allegedly saw.  This issue was raised in

 5     the the Milutinovic case.  The witness indicated at that time he had

 6     never seen this document until the proofing.  And if you look at line 19

 7     of the page we are currently on, His Honour Judge Bonomy asks the

 8     witness, What is this document?  And the witness states:

 9             "It's a document, as can be seen, from the security

10     department ..."

11             And he indicates there an eye-witness is saying, again, as he

12     will say now, that he was an eye-witness to the shooting of 20 Serbs.

13     And the issue goes on, essentially the resolution in that case was that

14     the Court would perhaps give it limited weight, but the exhibit was

15     already in evidence.  But that is not the case in this case.  It's my

16     submission that this witness has no basis to speak to this document.

17             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

18             Mr. Djurdjic.

19             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, again I tried to be

20     faster.  In the transcript we see that the witness did speak of this

21     event, the one that is being referred to here.  I just wanted him to give

22     us his comments as to how come he knew about that event that is referred

23     to in the transcript.  I think that is important that he tells us what

24     the source of his knowledge is regarding that event.

25             Now, as to whether the document will be admitted or not, that is

Page 11543

 1     not the primary reason why I'm showing it now.  There's going to be

 2     another witness through who I can tender this document.  I want more

 3     knowledge about this document and what happened there.

 4             JUDGE PARKER:  You certainly may explore briefly with the witness

 5     what he may know of an event.  But it seems at the moment that you should

 6     not be putting the document to this witness.  If you could proceed on

 7     that basis.

 8             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

 9        Q.   Mr. Filipovic, you mentioned to us that there were kidnappings of

10     non-Albanians before the war.  I would like to ask you, since the

11     transcript already says that you made such a statement, what is the

12     source of your knowledge about what happened in the village of Marevce

13     can you tell us what it was that you heard and how come you heard it?

14        A.   I can say that in the broader area of the village of Marevce,

15     there are many villages that had a Serb population.  I had close

16     relatives there and friend, and I visited them during my free time.

17     These are the villages around Marevac:  Gracanica, Slivovo, Dragovac,

18     Brekovac, Zebince, Manicice [phoen], Trncevce [phoen], Klobukar, Izvor,

19     Zebince, Bostane.  In all these villages that I went to and where I met

20     up with my close relatives, very close relatives and friends, many of

21     them told me about family members of theirs who had gone missing.  They

22     were never found again.  They went missing when they went into the field

23     to till their land, when they went to the woods to chop some firewood.

24     They never returned home.  They never came back.  There were many such

25     cases in these villages that I mentioned, that is, the broader area of

Page 11544

 1     Marevac.

 2        Q.   Thank you do you know that the terrorists kidnapped and killed

 3     Albanians who were loyal to the state?

 4        A.   I am aware of such cases as well.  They are generally known, if I

 5     can put it that way.  I had direct knowledge about that at the time

 6     because I knew many people whom they had killed or kidnapped, who went

 7     missing.  The media wrote about that too.  I had concrete knowledge from

 8     that area, especially -- it especially affected those citizens who were

 9     loyal to the system and who did not fit into the terrorist policy of the

10     Siptar terrorist forces.  Many were liquidated, killed, they went

11     missing, et cetera.  In the broader area of the municipality of Pristina

12     and even beyond.

13        Q.   Thank you.  Do you know what terrorist forces operated in the

14     broader area of Pristina before the war?

15        A.   I do know.  I heard about that at the collegium meetings of the

16     corps commander, and I had personal knowledge as well from the field as I

17     talked to citizens, citizens who were Siptars and Serbs and others.

18     There were many terrorist forces in the area surrounding Pristina that

19     was within the so-called operations zone lab.  Operations zone lab is

20     what it was called by the leaders of that Siptar terrorist movement.

21     They had several brigades in that territory of the lab operations zone.

22     Along the road between Pristina and Podujevo, the 141st, the 151st, the

23     152nd, the 153rd, the 154th Siptar Terrorist Brigade; and they had their

24     own centres, two centres, basically command posts from where they gave

25     orders to these units, the east of Gracanica and Pristina, in the broader

Page 11545

 1     area of Zlas, Marevac, Kukavica, Mramor; their headquarters were in Zlas

 2     and in the broader area, or, rather, to the north-east of Pristina in the

 3     broader area of Makovac, Karcikovo [phoen], Grastica, Kolic --

 4        Q.   Thank you.

 5        A.   -- were there headquarters in Grastica.

 6        Q.   Thank you.  Tell me, in the town of Pristina itself, were you

 7     aware of any activities of Albanian terrorists on the eve of the war in

 8     1999?

 9        A.   On the eve of the aggression, or, rather, before the aggression,

10     there were many acts of terrorism that were committed.  There were many

11     terrorist attacks against the civilian population, Serb and Siptar.

12     Shops, catering establishments within Pristina itself and on the

13     outskirts of Pristina.  There were quite a few of them, and they were

14     evident, even considerably, before the aggression.  However, they became

15     more intensified as the aggression was getting closer.  There was a

16     countless number of them; I cannot even remember all of them.  But some

17     were particularly striking because of the way in which they were carried

18     out.  And that is what I remember particularly.  Military columns that

19     were moving along roads, policemen, police patrols around Pristina; there

20     were bloody attacks with bloody consequences.

21             Four policemen got killed practically in the centre of Pristina

22     in the street of Miladin Popovic.  They were fired at from a vehicle and

23     all four of them got killed in the middle of Pristina.  The terrorists

24     drove away after having killed them.  I passed there just before this

25     event took place, or, rather, just after it happened, and I saw the blood

Page 11546

 1     there.  Then in Prijevo [phoen] and in the area of the clinical centre on

 2     the road between Pristina and Lipljan towards Caglavica two policemen

 3     were killed and one was seriously wounded.  They were fired at from

 4     houses.  They were attacked by hand-grenades and rifles.  There were many

 5     other attacks, terrorist acts, and they were registered in different

 6     documents and reports.  It's a generally known thing.

 7        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Filipovic.  After the war began, do you know of

 8     any terrorist activities in the town itself, and if so, where did you get

 9     that information?

10        A.   There were numerous terrorist activities in the town itself

11     including the entire duration of the aggression and after the

12     Kumanovo Agreement.  Such occurrences still take place.  In particular,

13     they usually came from Vranjevac.  It is a densely populated

14     neighbourhood in Pristina where the terrorists enjoyed a wide support.

15     That part of Pristina also represented their logistics base for the

16     functioning of the operational staff of operations zone, Lap.  Then,

17     also, there was a part of Maticane, it is a neighbourhood in the

18     outskirts of Pristina, gravitating towards the general area of the

19     clinical centre.  Next, the area of Dragodan where the American

20     information centre was housed; it is a neighbourhood to the north-west of

21     the railway station in Pristina.  There were such events in the very

22     centre of Pristina as well where citizens were killed, kidnapped, and

23     their bodies later found in the town itself as well as around the town,

24     particularly in the area of Zatric Potok, which is along the railroad and

25     the road from Pristina towards Vranjevac and Medvedje.

Page 11547

 1        Q.   Thank you.  Colonel, could you tell us what the situation was in

 2     Pristina and its environs as of the beginning of the aggression, in terms

 3     of air-strikes?

 4        A.   The town of Pristina and its environs were constantly being

 5     attacked by NATO aircraft.  They also attacked the town itself, including

 6     its old part and the general area of the garrison and the municipality of

 7     Pristina.  It was incessant during the day, night, in the morning, in the

 8     afternoon, on national holidays, religious holidays, and during Easter.

 9        Q.   Thank you.

10             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have document

11     D007-4429.

12        Q.   It is your tab 7.  This is a report about NATO aggression on the

13     24th and 25th April, 1999, by the provincial information centre.

14             Colonel, did you receive such reports, and where was this

15     provincial information centre housed?

16        A.   I did receive such reports, reports on NATO aggression on the

17     territory of Kosovo and Metohija.  In such reports there were also

18     incidents of attack recorded in Pristina and its environs; such reports

19     were drawn up by the defence directorate or administration, the seat of

20     which was in Pristina.  Such reports were compiled based on data received

21     from, among others, the provincial information centre in charge of the

22     municipality of Pristina.  It was housed in the immediate vicinity of my

23     command, in the municipal building.  Saric Vuksan [phoen] and

24     Dopuco Mico [phoen] were at the helm of the centre; I received their oral

25     and written reports pertaining to the town of Pristina and the results of

Page 11548

 1     bombardment as well as other kinds of events in Pristina.

 2             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Behar.

 3             MR. BEHAR:  Thank you, Your Honours.  I must object, once again,

 4     to the use of this document for similar reasons.  There is a threshold

 5     issue and that is that I think it's apparent just even on a brief look

 6     that the translation we have is not complete.  But the core of my concern

 7     is that, once again, it's not clear what the connection is between this

 8     document and the witness.  This was also explored in the Milutinovic

 9     case.  And if I could draw your attention to page 22 of the D712.

10             JUDGE PARKER:  I don't have numbered pages in that order and nor

11     do I have the complete transcript --

12             MR. BEHAR:  Perhaps if it's brought on the screen.

13             JUDGE PARKER: -- so something seems to have gone wrong.  What was

14     the page, the transcript page number?

15             MR. BEHAR:  It's T-9171.  It's now on the screen.

16             JUDGE PARKER:  I don't have that.  I start later than that page

17     number.

18             MR. BEHAR:  I'm not sure what the reason for that is.  That

19     is -- the version I have does include that.

20             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be looked at during the break.

21             MR. BEHAR:  Maybe if I can just work off of the copy that's on

22     the screen.

23             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes.

24             MR. BEHAR:  At line 20, and this is in reference to the same

25     document, Judge Bonomy had asked:

Page 11549

 1             "What is the connection, your connection to this document,

 2     Mr. Filipovic?"

 3             Continuing on the next page, if we could see the following page.

 4     At line 3, Judge Bonomy asks:

 5             "So this is a report to you, albeit it says the 3rd Army?"

 6             And the answer was:

 7             "No, no, this report was not submitted to me.  It was submitted

 8     by the operations centre of the civilian protection, and they had this

 9     information."

10             Counsel is asked at line 16 if this was Mr. Filipovic's report.

11     He states:

12             "It is not."

13             And then Judge Bonomy inquiries as to why he is being asked about

14     it.

15             And just to complete that, if we look on the following page,

16     which is 19173, at line 2, Judge Bonomy states:

17             " -- he has got no familiarity with it.  He hasn't told us that

18     he was there and saw the bombing take place and can confirm it.  So we

19     haven't advanced matters by actually spending time in court and exploring

20     this orally."

21             In my submission, that -- this document, and this, in fact,

22     applies to a number of similar documents that my friend may intend to

23     use, but there is not the sufficient connection between this witness and

24     these documents.

25             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

Page 11550

 1             Mr. Djurdjic.

 2             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, what refers to the

 3     period of time mentioned here goes for our document number 5498, a

 4     Pristina Corps Command document sent to the 3rd Army.  Among other

 5     targets, there was a warehouse and a factory hit in Pristina.  The

 6     witness was asked about that as well.  I asked the witness whether he

 7     received such reports, and confirmed that, indeed, he received such

 8     reports of air-strikes from the centre.

 9             I intentionally skipped over a couple of documents which were

10     combat reports of the Pristina Corps because there was some discussion

11     about that in the previous proceedings about whether he was present and

12     what was his source of knowledge.

13             As for this document, he received information and reports from

14     the provincial centre.  Those documents became part of evidence in the

15     Milutinovic case, alongside all the other documents.

16             JUDGE PARKER:  Are you saying that you would advance this on the

17     basis that, at the time, he was aware of this document, as it was

18     prepared not by him but by another independent organisation, but it was

19     known to him at the time?  Are you saying that he knows anything of the

20     matters that are dealt with in the document from his own observation and

21     knowledge?

22             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, there are several

23     elements here.  One is that witness himself provided information used to

24     compile such reports.  Another element is that this is information about

25     Pristina.  And he was familiar with it -- that information.  The service

Page 11551

 1     processing information received information from the witness and then

 2     sent reports to him.  That is why the witness is familiar with this

 3     document, and I believe he said so.

 4             JUDGE PARKER:  It may be one thing, Mr. Djurdjic, if the witness

 5     gave information that is set out in the document that you want him to

 6     consider; two, the organisation that prepared a report, and he then later

 7     saw the report.  At the moment, though, I've not heard that this witness

 8     had any personal knowledge of any event that is set out in this report.

 9     Is there something there that you can follow up?

10             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour.  We'll clear

11     that right away.

12        Q.   Colonel, we opened the document which is your tab number 7.  What

13     is there in the contents of this document, just briefly, please?

14        A.   I'll try to be as brief as possible.

15        Q.   So what is the subject of the report?

16        A.   In this report, one can see a number of cases pertaining to

17     Pristina, such as explosions that I could hear myself.  There are such

18     entries here.  For example, four explosions in the surroundings of

19     Pristina, then two explosions between Slatina and Gorazde.  The entire

20     Pristina could hear such explosions; five explosions in the area of

21     Golac, we see what the time was.

22        Q.   Thank you, thank you, Mr. Filipovic.  It says here which parts of

23     Pristina were bombed and when?

24        A.   Yes.

25        Q.   Out of the data that has to do with Pristina, was there any

Page 11552

 1     information that your service provided?

 2        A.   Yes, we kept co-operating with them.

 3        Q.   Did you receive such information sent to reports for your

 4     perusal?

 5        A.   My garrison affairs organ received it, and I provided information

 6     concerning Pristina to the information centre.  We were basically in the

 7     same building.

 8        Q.   That's fine.  But was this as part of your command group, did the

 9     command group officially receive such reports?

10        A.   Yes.

11             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I seek your

12     instruction.  Do you want me to tender this document, or should I only

13     focus on the information contained therein that has to do with Pristina

14     and discuss it with the witness?

15                           [Trial Chamber confers]

16             JUDGE PARKER:  The document appears to be one that is of only

17     remote relevance to the operations of the garrison unit commanded by the

18     witness.  He does not suggest any personal knowledge of the contents of

19     the document other than perhaps that he could hear explosions.  For those

20     reasons, the Chamber would not be persuaded that this document ought to

21     be received.  In addition to that, there is the problem that clearly we

22     do not have a full translation.  But I wanted to deal with the substance

23     of the matter, and that is that on the present evidence we do not see any

24     sufficient basis to receive this document through this witness.  Thank

25     you.

Page 11553

 1             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.  Very well.

 2        Q.   Colonel, the chief of the defence administration, Mr. Petar Ilic,

 3     what is that organisation?

 4        A.   Petar Ilic was the chief of the defence administration.  That

 5     organisation, in terms of hierarchy, was under the Ministry of Defence.

 6     He was subordinated to the republican defence administration and the

 7     republican defence administration in turn to the Federal Ministry of

 8     Defence.  He, however, had municipal centres subordinated to him.  In the

 9     municipalities they were reporting an alarming centres [as interpreted].

10     And based on the constitution and the Law on Armed Forces, as well as the

11     Law on Defence, we were duty-bound to co-operate with them.  Mr. Ilic

12     hailed from Suvi Do from Pristina, and I frequently met with him in

13     addition to knowing him personally.

14        Q.   We see here that that service kept record of all air-strikes, for

15     example, the night between the 24th and 25th of April.  What can we see

16     here?  When was Pristina bombed during that period and where?

17        A.   The 21st and the 22nd of May, there were one, two, three, four --

18             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Djurdjic, what is the witness referring to?

19     He seems to be reading something.  What is that?

20             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] It is the document I showed him

21     where we have the times and locations of air-strikes.  I don't know,

22     Your Honour, why ... there are some documents with incomplete

23     translations, but, later on, we seem to have a full translation in

24     English.  For some reason unknown to me, we only have the end of this

25     document here.  There must have been a mistake.  This temporal overview

Page 11554

 1     of air-strikes for the whole day, for the entire territory, and I wanted

 2     only to present to the witness those portions which had to do with

 3     Pristina and its environs and to ask him about that, whether he had

 4     specific knowledge concerning some events.  That was my goal, and that is

 5     why I chose to present these documents.  And I thought the translations

 6     which were not complete - and I keep record of it, such as this one which

 7     is incomplete - I wanted to have them only marked for identification

 8     pending translation.  It is unclear to me why this was translated in such

 9     a way.  And what do we have at the end of the document?  We have Pristina

10     and public utility services and what they were like.

11             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Djurdjic, we have ruled that we do not receive

12     this document.  It should not be used, therefore, to prompt the memory or

13     the evidence of the witness.  If you want to explore with him his

14     knowledge of air-strikes on a particular day or in a particular period,

15     you may do so, but not with the assistance of this document.  Is that

16     clear enough?

17             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.

18             JUDGE PARKER:  The witness seems to have the document in front of

19     him and to be constantly referring to it.  That should not occur.

20             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

21        Q.   Witness, could you please skip all the documents in your binder

22     up until 16, and then I will tell you what you will skip after that,

23     because these documents relate to --

24        A.   I've skipped everything up to number 16 just as you told me to.

25        Q.   That's right.  And then I'm tell you what you are going to skip

Page 11555

 1     after that.

 2             Tell me what your specific knowledge is regarding the bombing of

 3     Pristina and the surrounding area until the break-out of the war in 1999?

 4        A.   My knowledge related to the bombing of Pristina and the

 5     surrounding area is vast.  It would take a long time for me to describe

 6     all these attacks even in the briefest possible terms, and that is what

 7     I'll try to do.  I said that Pristina was bombed at all times, day and

 8     night.  There is information about that, and I personally witnessed that.

 9     Furthermore, facilities in the centre of Pristina, also on the outskirts

10     of Pristina and beyond.  The bus station in Pristina was totally

11     destroyed.  The transformer station was bombed in the town of Pristina,

12     and many transmission lines and installations in Pristina were damaged,

13     and, therefore, Pristina had no power for days.

14             Also, the post office was bombed along with telephone and

15     telegraph installations in the centre of Pristina.  Then the Orthodox

16     cemetery --

17        Q.   Can we just stop at this point a bit.  Since you mentioned the

18     post office, do you perhaps remember the date when that facility was

19     bombed?

20        A.   Well, there were many days like that, but that left a lasting

21     imprint in my memory because it reminded me of the bombing of Belgrade on

22     the 6th of April, 1941, when the Second World War started.

23        Q.   What year was that?

24        A.   1999.

25             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]  Could we now see video D006-2504.

Page 11556

 1                           [Video-clip played]

 2             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we play it further on.

 3                           [Video-clip played]

 4             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

 5        Q.   Colonel, you are familiar with this footage that we saw.  Tell

 6     me, what was that building that we saw in this footage?

 7        A.   That was the post office, the post office and the telecom

 8     building in the very centre of Pristina.  NATO projectiles hit the post

 9     office building, then they also hit the building of the pension fund, the

10     social insurance and pension funds in Pristina.  Also they hit a few

11     houses near the post office that were levelled to the ground.  The people

12     who lived in these houses got killed and were seriously wounded.

13        Q.   Thank you.  Were you on the spot when this explosion occurred and

14     when this damage was sustained?

15        A.   I was relatively nearby so I went to the scene immediately.  I

16     took part in the rescue endeavour, trying to help the wounded.  The

17     organs of my command were carrying out the dead and wounded.  Civilian

18     protection organs took part in this too.  The commander of the civil

19     protection of the province can be seen in this footage.  Also, the police

20     organs took part in the rescue operation and in putting out the fire.

21     Many shops and restaurants were damaged.  Supermarkets, for example, the

22     supermarket that was owned by a certain Rajko, and then Dragan Nikolic,

23     who owned a restaurant, had his restaurant destroyed --

24        Q.   Thank you, thank you --

25             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Djurdjic, we're waiting for a convenient

Page 11557

 1     pause.

 2             Mr. Behar.

 3             MR. BEHAR:  Thank you, Your Honours.  I have an objection to the

 4     the use of the video as well, and, at the risk of sounding like a broken

 5     record here, I don't have an issue with the witness discussing what he

 6     saw, the observations that he made; but, in my submissions, it's

 7     completely unclear, to begin with, who shot this video, how it was shot,

 8     when it was shot, who edited it together - and you can see just on the

 9     short portion that we observed there are a number of clips that are put

10     together - it's not clear how they were edited or why.  In my submission,

11     in the absence of clear information with respect to the video, then the

12     video itself is not proper to be put to the witness.

13             I should add just one additional point.  An additional concern

14     with putting exhibits like this to the witness first is, of course, that

15     it may be seen to be putting things, leading of a sort, putting things

16     into the mouth of the witness.

17             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

18             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, this is a clip that

19     was used in the Milutinovic case.  I did not think ...

20                           [Trial Chamber confers]

21             JUDGE PARKER:  The Chamber will receive the video, Mr. Behar, in

22     keeping with its practice over many videos and photographs in this -- the

23     trial, many of which have been tendered by the Prosecution.

24             The point you make that the evidence of a witness may be prompted

25     by seeing a video is valid and it is an issue which we watch.  And in the

Page 11558

 1     circumstances of this case, in respect of this video, the Chamber is not

 2     concerned that there has been any significant issue about the reliability

 3     of the general content of the video.

 4             So it will be received as an exhibit, despite the objection.

 5             And you can carry on, Mr. Djurdjic.

 6             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

 7             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, that will be Exhibit D00716.

 8             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.

 9        Q.   Colonel, did the members of your command group take part in this?

10     Did they help after the bombing that we saw just now?

11        A.   The members of the command group of the command of the corps took

12     part in saving the wounded, helping them, carrying out the dead,

13     et cetera.  Many people took part, like Sergeant Dobrivoje Stojanovic.

14        Q.   Thank you.  I'd like us to go back to this subject, but it's not

15     between the 6 and the 7th.  What do you know, if anything, in relation to

16     the bombing of the area surrounding Pristina?  Did you tour any of the

17     places that had been affected?

18        A.   The surroundings of Pristina were intentionally bombed, just like

19     the centre of Pristina.  Pristina and its surrounding area was bombed all

20     the time.  Since this was the territory of the Pristina garrison that I

21     was in charge of, both my organs and I toured the area frequently.  It

22     was the village of Sufalija that was bombed, the broader area.  Then the

23     broader area of Gornja Brnjica, Donja Brnjica, Devet Jugovica, then the

24     village of Gracanica, then the Kisnica  water works that supplied

25     Pristina with water.  That is why the citizens of Pristina often had no

Page 11559

 1     water, and bread production was imperilled as well, although attempts

 2     were made to keep it regular.

 3             Then the transmission lines in the broader area of Pristina were

 4     bombed, especially in the area of Donja Brnjica, Devet Jugovica, and

 5     Mazgita.  I personally came across the teams that were trying to repair

 6     the damage sustained.  The teams that were repairing transmission lines

 7     were mixed teams consisting of Serbs and Siptars.  Many Siptars figured

 8     prominently in terms of their bravery, and later on they were decorated

 9     and awarded for their efforts.  I can give you their names as well, some

10     of the names.

11        Q.   Thank you.  In terms of the position that you held, did you also

12     go to neighbourhoods that were outside the city centre?

13        A.   I often went to neighbourhoods that were outside town to see

14     elements that belonged to my garrison to gain immediate knowledge as to

15     what was going on so that I could take further measures within the

16     garrison in order to make it possible to have the most bearable life

17     possible, because the bombing took place every day, all the time.  I can

18     tell you which places I visited and what I observed.

19        Q.   Did you have any information about -- about what was used in the

20     bombing?  What kind of equipment?

21        A.   I had a lot of information.  I had practically daily insight.  I

22     can document many things from that field, particularly the fact that the

23     broader area of Pristina was bombed with projectiles that contained

24     depleted uranium.  Then cluster bombs were also used, as well as

25     projectiles that caused various chemical effects, that is to say, their

Page 11560

 1     use led to what is termed chemical accidents, especially because of the

 2     bombing of a plant in Pristina.

 3        Q.   Thank you.  Can you tell us how come you know that bombs

 4     containing depleted uranium were used?

 5        A.   Well, I received information from the units that were in the

 6     broader area of the garrison of Pristina and in the actual area of the

 7     Pristina garrison that were in charge of establishing that and measuring

 8     levels of radiation.  For example, elements of the 52nd ABiH Battalion

 9     that were deployed in the area of my garrison.

10        Q.   Thank you.  Were you on the scene, yourself, Colonel?

11        A.   Yes, I was.  And I even did some things that were untoward, and I

12     regret that to this day.

13        Q.   Tell me, where were you when you say that you were on the scene?

14        A.   I was in Gornja Brnjica.  I was in Donja Brnjica.  I was in the

15     area facing Grmija, above the former teacher's college in Sofalija.

16        Q.   You are giving me answers that are too extensive and not

17     responsive to my questions.  I asked you about the location where you

18     were where depleted uranium was used, and how come you know?

19        A.   I caught these projectiles with my own hands in the area of

20     Donja Grmija.  That is the untoward thing that I did.  And I brought them

21     to Pristina so that all citizens could see them.  And, to this day, I

22     suffer the effects of that.

23        Q.   Thank you.  Were measures taken at these locations where this was

24     used?

25        A.   In that area -- in those areas, measures were taken that are

Page 11561

 1     prescribed for the units of the army and of the civilian protection, as

 2     well as other defence structures.  That is to say that signs were put up

 3     from the regular kits, marking the areas where the projectiles were

 4     fired.

 5        Q.   Thank you.

 6             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I believe that it is

 7     the right time for the break now.

 8             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes, we resume at 1.00.

 9                           [The witness stands down]

10                           --- Recess taken at 12.33 p.m.

11                           --- On resuming at 1.02 p.m.

12                           [The witness takes the stand]

13             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Djurdjic.

14             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

15        Q.   Mr. Filipovic, before the war and throughout the war you were in

16     Pristina, if I understood you well?

17        A.   That is correct.  I was in Pristina between 1986 and until the

18     end of the war, that is to say, the 29th of June, 1999.

19        Q.   Thank you.  Do you have any knowledge whether just before the war

20     there were any mass movements or leaving of the population from Pristina

21     and its environs?

22        A.   On the eve of the aggression against our country and the

23     bombardment, there were people moving out from Pristina itself, and its

24     general area.  Siptars were moving out, Serbs, Roma, Turks, and all those

25     who resided there.  There were such instances.

Page 11562

 1        Q.   Thank you.  How do you know that?

 2        A.   Because I saw it with my own eyes.  Those citizens moving away,

 3     some of them worked with me, others worked with members of my family,

 4     lived in the same apartment blocks.  We were neighbours.  I have that

 5     knowledge from daily life.

 6        Q.   Did the people you talked to specify any reasons for leaving

 7     Pristina?

 8        A.   Yes, they did say why.  Basically all ethnicities had the same

 9     reasons.  There were several reasons.  The first and most important one

10     was the looming threat of bombardment.  That is something they were

11     expecting to happen.  In foreign media, this was widely reported, as well

12     as in some domestic media.  There were also rumours travelling between

13     people and they told me they wanted to move away because they feared for

14     their families and children in particular.

15             It was also because of Siptar terrorist attacks which grew in

16     frequency.  There was an upward trend before the war.

17        Q.   Thank you.  Do you recall any specific conversations with people?

18        A.   I do.  I remember many.  Before the aggression, I spoke with

19     those who wanted to move their families outside Pristina and

20     Kosovo-Metohija.  Some of them were Serbs, others were Siptar, and these

21     were the reasons they usually mentioned, that they were fearful of the

22     looming air-strikes and terrorist attacks.

23        Q.   Thank you.  And what about after the beginning of the air

24     campaign?  Were there people still moving out, and what do you know about

25     that?

Page 11563

 1        A.   Well, in brief, I had numerous such experiences, and it took

 2     place for a number of reasons.  As of the 24th of March onwards,

 3     air-strikes began and in certain periods such strikes occurred more

 4     frequently than in others.  Both Serbs and Siptars were moving away.  It

 5     particularly escalated after repeated bombardment of the town of Pristina

 6     itself as well as its centre and its postal building and other buildings

 7     destroyed around it.

 8        Q.   How did you know that?

 9        A.   Well, I know that because I spoke to many citizens.  I also could

10     feel that myself.  There were no telephone lines.  After the telecom

11     facility was destroyed, perhaps only 20 per cent of all communication

12     still worked.  There were different power cuts because power lines and

13     generator stations were bombed in Pristina and its environs.

14             On a number of occasions, Pristina went completely dark because

15     of the gases, fumes, and smoke caused because the Jugopetrol company's

16     warehouse was destroyed in the general area of Pristina at

17     Devet Jugovica.

18        Q.   Do you remember specific people with whom you discussed this?

19        A.   I do.  I spoke with Vasilije Grbic; with his neighbours, Siptars;

20     with Tomislav Milenkovic, who was a well-known math professor from

21     Pristina who left.  He left his apartment keys to his neighbour who was a

22     Siptar.  He even gave him his fridge and entrusted him with his dog for

23     safekeeping just before moving away.  I spoke with Branko Brudar who had

24     intended to move his family out.  And once on their way, he moved them to

25     Montenegro.  And, as a matter of fact, his child was killed at Morina

Page 11564

 1     because that's a where a NATO aircraft struck when his family was there.

 2        Q.   Did you speak with any Albanians?

 3        A.   With many.  In particular with those who were in columns passing

 4     by my command post and by the building where part of my command was.  As

 5     they were moving in the column, I asked them, Where are you going?  Why?

 6     You needn't go.  They said, We are leaving; we were told to do so; and

 7     we, ourselves, are not really clear why we have to leave.

 8             I frequently saw them close to my command post.  They would go

 9     back and forth and on one day and the next.

10        Q.   It is not clear to me.  You are now talking about some people who

11     passed by your command on several occasions but they didn't leave?

12        A.   Well, that problem of moving away is a complex issue, and it is

13     difficult to explain it.  There were people moving away before and during

14     the aggression.  Then there were those who moved and came back a number

15     of times, both Siptars and Serbs.  There were people who tried to create

16     a feeling that they were moving away and they would circle Pristina and

17     then go back to their houses.  There were quite a number of such people.

18     They usually passed by my command.  They would go one way and then

19     return.  And they would do this on a number of occasions.

20        Q.   You've just explained that, thank you.

21             You have mentioned that there was a separate category of people

22     who first moved away and then returned to their places of residence.  How

23     do you know that, and what kind of category is this?  Please be more

24     specific.

25        A.   Those who left Kosovo and Metohija and Pristina itself were also

Page 11565

 1     of different ethnicities, Serbs, Siptar.  During the aggression, people

 2     were particularly trying to have their children move away.

 3        Q.   Colonel, please be specific.  You mentioned a category of people

 4     who moved away and then returned.  How did that come about?  Please

 5     explain.

 6        A.   Well, I'll give you an example.  In the village of Ajvalija,

 7     which is on the outskirts of Pristina and is populated mainly by

 8     Albanians, at the time, there were between 4- and 5.000 Albanians and

 9     some 2- to 300 Serbs.  They lived together without any problem, save for

10     their great fear of bombardment because a part of their village was

11     bombed.  And, at some point in time, the Siptars began moving away

12     towards Mramor next to the Gracanac lake and across Vujic Potok or

13     stream.  We asked them why they were leaving and they said, Well, we were

14     told to go there, to go to Mramor, and that the accommodation would be

15     provided and we would be supplied with everything we needed.

16             Four or five days later when no one received them there, most of

17     them returned to Ajvalija, and they stayed there until the end of the

18     aggression, although, some of them did not return for the fear of

19     bombardment.  Basically, the village was bombed and its environs from all

20     sides, especially in the area where there used to be a mine close to

21     Ajvalija.

22        Q.   Thank you.  Did you know that there were some calls for the

23     population to move out?

24        A.   Yes, I recall those.  I even remember there was a flier that one

25     could frequently come across in the streets of Pristina.  Some members of

Page 11566

 1     my command and garrison found leaflets like that.  They were in the

 2     Albanian language, inviting Albanians to move away towards Albania and

 3     Macedonia because there was allegedly going to be a large offensive of

 4     the Serb police and military, and because of the inability of the

 5     terrorist forces to protects them, as well as that the NATO pact, which

 6     they asked to help them, would be unable to protect them at that point in

 7     time.  That is what the leaflet said.

 8             Fear was spread in different ethnic communities by way of

 9     leaflets that were thrown out of NATO airplanes.  These leaflets had

10     terrifying pictures of the super bombarder B-52 NATO aircraft with those

11     aircraft being shown as dropping bombs.  And underneath in the picture

12     there was a civilian population.  It says that there would be carpet

13     bombing from these super flying fortresses.

14        Q.   Thank you.  You said that there was a category of people who

15     moved out.  Did you discuss this with any of those people?  Did they tell

16     you why they were leaving?  And I'm particularly interested in whether

17     you had any contact with any members of the Albanian community.

18        A.   I had frequent contact with them.  I spoke to a certain Redzep,

19     with a certain Fado, a Dzemo.  I used to know them from the Territorial

20     Defence.  Some of them were my work-mates, while others were

21     acquaintances from the town.  I even attended some schools together in

22     Pristina with them.

23        Q.   And what were the reasons they specified for leaving Pristina?

24        A.   Well, mostly they said that they were afraid and that they didn't

25     know how long these air-strikes would last.  They said they feared for

Page 11567

 1     their families and children in particular and that they were afraid of

 2     Siptar terrorist actions.

 3        Q.   Thank you.  You were in Pristina throughout that period.  Did you

 4     see or do you have any knowledge of the army and the police exercising

 5     pressure on the Albanian population and telling them that they should

 6     move?

 7        A.   The army and police never exerted any pressure.  They never told

 8     the population to leave.  Quite the contrary.  The army and police took

 9     all measures to avoid that.  I know certain measures that were taken

10     which insisted on our personal conduct and personal example so as to try

11     to persuade people to stay.  We were supposed to talk to them and behave

12     properly so that they would stay.  We were there to stabilise conditions

13     and offer resistance to Siptar terrorists and to secure the functioning

14     of services in the town, although there were power cuts and sometimes

15     there was no water, there was destruction, and the population was

16     frequently injured.

17        Q.   Thank you.

18             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please now have

19     D011-2339.  Before that, I ask for your leave, Your Honours, to have this

20     map added on to the 65 ter list of the Defence.

21             MR. BEHAR:  I can just indicate I have no objection.

22             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you for that, Mr. Behar.  Yes, that will be

23     added to the list.

24             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we zoom in on the central

25     part.  A bit more.  Scroll down, please.  I apologise, scroll up.  More,

Page 11568

 1     more, that's right.  That's it.

 2        Q.   Colonel, on this map, can you indicate where Lapska Street is?

 3        A.   I'll have a look.  I think I might be able to do that.

 4        Q.   Thank you.  Please mark it as 1.

 5        A.   [Marks]

 6        Q.   Where is the market, the bazaar, the old market, that is?

 7        A.   [Marks]

 8        Q.   Thank you.  Can you see Kojlovica on this map; in which direction

 9     is it?

10        A.   I'll tell you right away.

11        Q.   The bazaar, can you mark it with 2, please.

12        A.   Kojlovica is this way, this way.  So you follow

13     Proleterska Street.

14        Q.   Thank you.  Mark it with a K.  For Kojlovica.

15        A.   [Marks]

16        Q.   You said it is in this direction.  From Lapska Street, can you

17     see Kojlovica?

18        A.   The village of Kojlovica cannot be seen from Lapska Street.

19        Q.   Why?

20        A.   Because between Lapska Street and Kojlovica there is no line of

21     sight because of the lie of the land and buildings.

22        Q.   Thank you.  What is the distance between the location you marked

23     as 1 and the village of Kojlovica?

24        A.   There should be between 3 and 5 kilometres.

25        Q.   Thank you.  Can you indicate where the Vranjevacki Bridge is?

Page 11569

 1        A.   [Marks]

 2        Q.   Please mark it with 3.

 3        A.   [Marks]

 4        Q.   Colonel, during the war, did you see any tanks or armoured

 5     vehicles on that bridge?

 6        A.   I visited that area a few times during the war.  And whenever I

 7     did, there were never any tanks there.  Also, people from my command who

 8     moved about the area also told me that there was not a single tank or

 9     armoured combat vehicle there throughout the aggression.

10        Q.   Thank you.  In the town of Pristina during the war, did you see

11     any armoured vehicles or tanks at all irrespective of whose those

12     vehicles were?

13        A.   In the town of Pristina, I didn't see any.  There were no

14     armoured vehicles or tanks there.  They were not there during the

15     aggression.  The 15th Armoured Brigade, the seat of which in the

16     Kosovski Junaci barracks part, of their units were there and some of them

17     were at the Pristina airport, but they had actually moved out before the

18     aggression.

19        Q.   Where was that tank unit, in what barracks?

20        A.   It was on the outskirts of Pristina along the road between

21     Pristina and Kosovo Polje to the right of that road vis-ā-vis the

22     agricultural school to the west of the Orthodox cemetery.

23        Q.   Thank you.  As for the Vranjevac hill, you marked the bridge, is

24     there a barracks on that hill where there may have been armoured vehicles

25     or tanks?

Page 11570

 1        A.   On the Vranjevac hill, there were no barracks.  And there were no

 2     tanks or armoured combat vehicles or artillery pieces for that matter.

 3     No military group was deployed there for several reasons.  First of all,

 4     Vranjevac is densely populated and the streets are exceptionally narrow

 5     because no urban planning was applied.  In that settlement, there were

 6     numerous terrorist groups and the logistics of the Lap operations zone of

 7     the Siptar terrorists.  These were the main reasons why.  There was not a

 8     tank there or any combat assets of the army, there was only a police

 9     station which was there in peacetime.

10        Q.   Where is Lukare?  Can you tell us that?

11        A.   Lukare --

12        Q.   Just a moment.  If you cannot see it, just tell us you cannot see

13     it, but you can show us the general direction.

14        A.   Lukare is in this direction here.  This is what I'm going to do

15     now.  Yes.

16        Q.   And how far away is Lukare from the location that you marked with

17     number 1?

18        A.   Lukare is about, well, say 2 or 3 kilometres away.

19        Q.   Thank you.  Could you just tell us, or, rather --

20             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I would like the transcript to

21     reflect that the witness marked the direction where Lukare is, and he

22     wrote Lukare in his own hand.

23        Q.   In view of the terrain, can you tell us whether from location

24     number 1 a person can see the village of Lukare?

25        A.   No, it is not possible.  From Lapska Street, you cannot see

Page 11571

 1     Lukare.  No way.

 2        Q.   Thank you.  And right now, on this map, do we see where the

 3     Orthodox cemetery is in Dragodan?

 4        A.   It should be evident, but could the the map be scrolled down

 5     about 5 centimetres?

 6             JUDGE PARKER:  Not without losing the markings.

 7             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

 8        Q.   Just take it slowly, Mr. Filipovic, let us see.

 9        A.   It would have to go up.

10        Q.   Mr. Filipovic, we are now going to admit this map so that we

11     don't lose any of the markings, and then we are going to show you the map

12     again.

13        A.   What you can see here is the Islamic cemetery and --

14        Q.   Take it easy.  Just slowly, sir.

15             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could I please tender this map.

16             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes.

17             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, that will be Exhibit D00717.

18             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we now have the same

19     document again, the map without any markings.

20        Q.   Now we can see Lapska Street and Dragodan and the cemetery,

21     Mr. Filipovic.  Is the map positioned --

22        A.   Just a moment, please.

23        Q.   Perhaps we can try to zoom it in again.

24        A.   No, no.  No need to zoom in.  Let me see.  I see Lapska Street,

25     yes, but now the cemetery -- it has to go up a bit.  A bit up.

Page 11572

 1             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we scroll down a bit.

 2             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] A bit more.  That's right.  Now the

 3     cemetery can be seen.

 4             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

 5        Q.   Mr. Filipovic, again, could you mark Lapska Street and put number

 6     1 there.

 7        A.   Number 1 is Lapska Street.

 8        Q.   Mr. Filipovic, the railway station in Pristina, could you put a

 9     circle around it.

10        A.   [Marks]

11        Q.   And number 2, please.  Could you place number 2 there by the

12     railway station.

13        A.   [Marks]

14        Q.   And now could you put a circle around the cemetery at Dragodan.

15        A.   [Marks]

16        Q.   And place number 3, please.

17        A.   [Marks]

18        Q.   Mr. Filipovic, from location number 1, can a person see location

19     number 3?

20        A.   No, it is impossible.  It is impossible.  From Lapska Street you

21     cannot see the Orthodox cemetery.

22        Q.   Thank you.

23             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I would like to tender this

24     document, please.

25             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes.

Page 11573

 1             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, that will be Exhibit D00718.

 2             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

 3        Q.   Mr. Filipovic, I'm now going to present a witness statement here

 4     of a witness who was heard here, Ms. Nazalie Bala.  Could you please tell

 5     me, during her testimony in court, and the transcript reflects this,

 6     Ms. Bala said that she saw check-points because she worked in Dragodan,

 7     she said, I worked at the RC Pristina that is behind the former American

 8     office.  The check-point was right by the American office; the other

 9     check-point was as Dragodan Bridge; and the third in Tophane, that links

10     the old and new parts of town.

11             I would like to ask you whether there were check-points, to the

12     best of your knowledge, at these locations after the war broke out in

13     1999?

14        A.   During the aggression, I moved about very often through the town

15     of Pristina.  Parts of my units moved about frequently as they were

16     carrying out their tasks too.  I never saw a check-point in the town of

17     Pristina, and no one from their ranks ever reported to me about the

18     existence of a check-point.

19        Q.   Thank you.  She also said that at the main entry points to

20     Pristina from Gnjilane, Skopje, Prizren, and Podujevo, there were

21     check-points with barbed wire.  Did you tour these locations, and are you

22     aware of that?

23        A.   I went to all of those places several times and there was no

24     barbed wire there or any kind of obstacles to the movement of the

25     population or vehicles.  Not at a single exit or entry road in the town

Page 11574

 1     of Pristina.

 2        Q.   Thank you.  If checks were carried out at some positions by the

 3     police or military, were they carried out vis-ā-vis all the persons who

 4     were in transit on that particular road?

 5        A.   Those checks were carried out in respect of all persons regarding

 6     all the citizens of Pristina and the surrounding area and whoever passed

 7     by, irrespective of ethnicity and irrespective of occupation.  As a

 8     matter of fact, checks were carried out both by the police and the

 9     military police.  So very often we would also stop the police, and the

10     police would stop us.  Once we would show our IDs and establish who we

11     were, then we would continue.

12        Q.   Thank you.  Ms. Bala also says, When I looked in the direction of

13     Dragodan from my terrace, I saw the police forces as they were moving in

14     armoured vehicles, trucks, and other vehicles.

15        A.   From there she could not see that.  Her building was rather high,

16     but she could not see what she said that she saw.

17        Q.   Thank you.  As you moved about Pristina, did you see armoured

18     vehicles and tanks, either military or police vehicles?

19        A.   I did not see a single armoured vehicle ever.  A military

20     armoured vehicle or a police armoured vehicle.

21        Q.   Thank you.  In her statement and in the transcript, Ms. Bala says

22     that around 1400 hours on the 28th of March she heard and saw the

23     shelling of Kojlovica, a neighbourhood in Pristina, and that she saw the

24     Serb artillery firing from Vranjevac towards Kojlovica.

25        A.   She could never see any Serb artillery at Vranjevac because,

Page 11575

 1     quite simply, it never was there.  It is well known where the

 2     Pristina Corps units were.  Exactly so.  And since that was my area of

 3     responsibility, the garrison of Pristina, I know that there was no

 4     artillery.  And there couldn't have been any artillery for that.  Even if

 5     somebody wanted to deploy artillery there, that would be in contravention

 6     of all tactical rules.

 7             Also it is impossible because the streets are so narrow and

 8     houses are right next to one another because this neighbourhood was built

 9     up outside proper urban planning.  Also, there was a large concentration

10     of Siptar terrorist groups in the area.

11        Q.   Thank you.  Ms. Bala says, on page 2341 of the transcript,

12     line 22 and line 23, and then 24 and 25 as well, that she saw a tank

13     firing in the village of Lukare, firing from a hill there towards the

14     hill of Kojlovica.

15        A.   In the village of Lukare she could not see a single tank because

16     there weren't any there.  In the village of Lukare, there was just a

17     military depot that was bombed all the time.  It was bombed almost every

18     single day.  That depot was bombed all the time.  And strong detonations

19     were heard.  In other parts of town, some glass on windows was shattered

20     because the detonations there.  There weren't any combat vehicles --

21     armoured combat vehicles there during the aggression, no.

22        Q.   Thank you.  Let me ask you something else.  From the

23     26th of March onwards, did you ever see or hear or receive any reports to

24     the effect that the army and the police were expelling the Albanian

25     population?

Page 11576

 1        A.   Never.  I never heard of that.  I never saw that kind of

 2     expulsion, or could that have happened in respect to the tasks that we

 3     receive.  If something like that happened on an individual basis, and I

 4     never observed any such thing, such a person would certainly have charges

 5     brought against him in accordance with the law.

 6        Q.   My last question, Mr. Filipovic.  Did you ever hear that in

 7     Pristina and the surrounding area there were paramilitary formations

 8     during the war?

 9        A.   Never.  During the course of the aggression there was not a

10     single paramilitary organisation either in Pristina or in the surrounding

11     area or any individual who behaved in a paramilitary way.  I did not

12     notice anyone like that, and I have no information to that effect.

13             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. Filipovic.

14             Thank you, Your Honours, I've just completed my direct

15     examination.

16             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.  The statement you quoted from, that is

17     an exhibit?

18             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour.  P420.

19     Bala, Nazalie's statement, dated the 30th of June, 2001.

20             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

21             We must adjourn now.  As there is a Plenary sitting of Judges

22     tomorrow, we will have to continue the trial on Friday.  We commence at

23     10.00, and we'll sit through until 4.00.  So, I am sorry, sir, but we

24     must ask you to return on Friday morning at 10.00 to continue your

25     evidence.  A Court Officer will show you out after we rise.  We now

Page 11577

 1     adjourn.

 2             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I understand.  Thank you.

 3                           --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.49 p.m.,

 4                           to be reconvened on Friday, the 19th day of

 5                           February, 2010, at 10.00 a.m.