1 Friday, 29 June 2001
2 [Status Conference]
3 [Open session]
4 [The accused entered court]
5 --- Upon commencing at 10.05 a.m.
6 JUDGE HUNT: Call the case, please.
7 THE REGISTRAR: Yes, Your Honour. This is the case number
8 IT-94-2-PT, the Prosecutor versus Dragan Nikolic.
9 JUDGE HUNT: I'm sorry we are late. I'm afraid I was involved in
10 some other matter, but the transcript I hope will be corrected to show
11 that we are not starting at five past 1.00 but at five past 10.00. This
12 is the Status Conference required under the rules. Is there anything that
13 the Prosecution wants to raise, Mr. Ryneveld?
14 MR. RYNEVELD: Not that I can think of this morning. Thank you,
15 Your Honour. The only thing that had occurred to me is perhaps the court
16 at some point may wish to order a date to disclose names to the Defence,
17 but I don't know whether this is an appropriate time or not.
18 JUDGE HUNT: Well, that depends on when the trial is, and I think
19 we have a long way ahead of us before that by the look of this motion.
20 But what is happening about the form of the indictment with the 80 counts?
21 MR. RYNEVELD: Yes, Your Honour. I can tell the Court that we are
22 in the process of actually working on preparing an amended indictment, and
23 I can assure the court that when I'm done with it, it will be
24 substantially reduced. I'm not in a position yet to file the amended
25 indictment. There have been some other matters that have been requiring
1 my immediate attention. However, I am in the process of reviewing with
2 our staff the amended indictment, and I anticipate, as I say, it will
3 probably be less than half of the amount of counts.
4 JUDGE HUNT: I should hope so.
5 MR. RYNEVELD: Yes.
6 JUDGE HUNT: Yes. In relation to the matters requiring your
7 immediate attention, may I point out that we are still waiting for some
8 material in that other case and that my power to deal with the matter will
9 shortly expire.
10 MR. RYNEVELD: I'm acutely aware of that, Your Honour, and as we
11 speak, those matters are being attended to, and I understand that within
12 minutes of this Status Conference being over, the matter should be
13 available for Your Honour.
14 JUDGE HUNT: I can only hope so. Now, I'm sorry, I should have
15 taken your appearance. Do you want to announce it now?
16 MR. MORRISON: I can guarantee that I'm here. There is almost
17 nothing that the Defence asks for. I make the offer to my learned friend,
18 who is otherwise engaged, if he wants me to amend the indictment on his
19 behalf, I'm perfectly willing to do so.
20 JUDGE HUNT: But, Mr. Morrison, the one thing that does concern me
21 is that the form of discovery should continue.
22 MR. MORRISON: Yes.
23 JUDGE HUNT: Have there been any problems about that?
24 MR. MORRISON: No.
25 JUDGE HUNT: That's wonderful to hear.
1 MR. MORRISON: No. We are -- at the moment, I don't anticipate
2 any procedural problems between the Defence and the Prosecution, or
3 substantive problems.
4 JUDGE HUNT: May I ask you a question? Having read the motion, or
5 a great proportion of it, and having read an article that you wrote
6 recently in an English magazine, I was wondering whether you are the
7 author of both?
8 MR. MORRISON: Yes.
9 JUDGE HUNT: You have very different styles.
10 MR. MORRISON: Well, it's horses for courses.
11 JUDGE HUNT: Because frankly, it's a very difficult -- it's very
12 densely expressed some of this. It's --
13 MR. MORRISON: It is. And one of the problems is, to be frank,
14 that -- I appreciate I went over the limits. Actually when you look at
15 the motion, I only went over the limits of five pages of the actual
17 JUDGE HUNT: I'm not worried about the length of it. I'm worried
18 about the style in which it's expressed.
19 MR. MORRISON: Yes. Well, it's trying to cram as much into as
20 short a space as possible, and that's one of the problems.
21 JUDGE HUNT: I'm afraid that some of us supported that amendment
22 to that practice note and others didn't. I sometimes wonder whether there are
23 more disadvantages than advantages. However, I perhaps should not have
24 inquired, but the style was so different, I thought it may have been
25 different people who had written each.
1 MR. MORRISON: In a sense it probably was. One was pretending to
2 be a journalist and one was pretending to be a lawyer.
3 JUDGE HUNT: Yes. Are there any matters under the rule that you
4 want to raise in relation to your client's well-being?
5 MR. MORRISON: No, at the moment there aren't any significant
6 difficulties. The only thing that I would ask, and this is a matter of
7 practicalities, if there were to be an appeal which lies of right as far
8 as either party is concerned under Rule 72(B)(i), there is 15 days from
9 the date of the judgement being entered. Now, we are approaching a time
10 when I know, for instance, that I'm going to be in Tanzania. I know my
11 learned friend is under very considerable pressure and we are also
12 approaching the time when the Tribunal will be closing down. So it's all
13 I ask for is if the date for judgement is possible to indicate before the
14 actual date the judgement is delivered the date or a date on which it may
15 be delivered, it would be of enormous assistance
16 JUDGE HUNT: I can assure you that we have had other things on our
17 plates as well.
18 MR. MORRISON: I appreciate that.
19 JUDGE HUNT: But nevertheless, hopefully, it will be out before
20 the vacation, but we can grant you leave, an extension of time, I think.
21 I'm not altogether satisfied that it is within the appeal as a right
22 because it has been altered now.
23 MR. MORRISON: Yes, I know I was waiting to see whether anybody
24 was going do raise that issue.
25 JUDGE HUNT: I only say to you, I'm not sure. I haven't really
1 considered it and it's not a matter for me to consider but it's
2 interesting because unless it goes to jurisdiction, you have to get
3 leave. So if I were you, I would try a belt and braces approach myself
4 and do each in the alternative but you will certainly be given fair
5 warning of when we propose to deliver the decision. If we do have power
6 to grant you an extension of time, we will do so. If we don't, if
7 necessary, we can delay its delivery until it is an appropriate time
8 because we don't want your client to miss out in any way on his rights in
9 relation to the matter.
10 MR. MORRISON: I'm grateful for that.
11 JUDGE HUNT: It is a massive issue if I may put it that way.
12 MR. MORRISON: It is and the more you look into it, the bigger it
13 gets. That's the trouble. And Your Honour will appreciate there was
14 actually far more material available than found its way into the motion
15 but there has to be a limitation somewhere.
16 JUDGE HUNT: Well, when you say material, if there are any further
17 references that you want to give, there is no harm in you giving us a
18 supplementary sheet of paper with the names of the cases on.
19 MR. MORRISON: I would certainly limit it to that, yes.
20 JUDGE HUNT: Because if there is one issue about which there is no
21 common approach, this seems to be it, and some courts have not always
22 spoken with the same voice.
23 MR. MORRISON: It's trying to find two courts which have, which is
24 the problem.
25 JUDGE HUNT: But I'm worried about some of the courts within
1 themselves have not spoken with the one voice. But we would appreciate
2 any assistance you can give, we would like to get the result right
3 whichever way it goes. All right, then, was there anything else that we
4 should deal with at this Status Conference? I'm very grateful to you for
6 MR. RYNEVELD: No, thank you.
7 JUDGE HUNT: And we will adjourn.
8 --- Whereupon the Status Conference
9 adjourned at 10.14 a.m.