Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 8691

 1                           Monday, 15 September 2008

 2                           [Open session]

 3                           [The accused entered court]

 4                           --- Upon commencing at 9.17 a.m.

 5             JUDGE ORIE:  Good morning to everyone.

 6             Mr. Registrar would you please call the case.

 7             THE REGISTRAR:  Good morning, Your Honours.  Good morning to

 8     everyone in the courtroom.  This is case number IT-06-90-T, the

 9     Prosecutor versus Ante Gotovina, et al.

10             JUDGE ORIE:  Thank you, Mr. Registrar.

11             The late start is to some extent, also due to the fact that the

12     statement we asked for was not received during the weekend but was only

13     here this morning, which surprised us because the Defence took great

14     effort putting a lot of statements not related to witness number one, but

15     to what seemed to have bothered them more than what the Chamber asked

16     for.

17             I would like to go into private session.

18                           [Private session]

19   (redacted)

20   (redacted)

21   (redacted)

22   (redacted)

23   (redacted)

24   (redacted)

25   (redacted)

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11  Pages 8692-8697 redacted. Private session.















Page 8698

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 7                           [Open session]

 8             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, we're back in open session.

 9             JUDGE ORIE:  Thank you, Mr. Registrar.

10             When we were in private session, the Chamber has dealt with

11     procedural aspects in relation to an application for protective measures

12     for the next witness, Witness P-001.

13             The Chamber goes beyond what was asked, the parties agreeing on

14     this, and decides that the testimony of Witness P-001 will be heard in

15     closed session, reasons to be given orally in due course.

16             We turn into closed session.

17                           [Closed session]

18   (redacted)

19   (redacted)

20   (redacted)

21   (redacted)

22   (redacted)

23   (redacted)

24   (redacted)

25   (redacted)

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11  Pages 8699-8782 redacted. Closed session.















Page 8783

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 5   (redacted)

 6                           [Open session]

 7             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, we're back in open session.

 8             JUDGE ORIE:  Thank you, Mr. Registrar.

 9                           [The witness entered court]

10             JUDGE ORIE:  Good afternoon, Mr. Lyntton.

11             THE WITNESS:  Yes, good afternoon, Your Honour.

12             JUDGE ORIE:  Mr.  Lyntton, before you give evidence in this

13     court, the Rules of Procedure and Evidence require you to make a solemn

14     declaration, that you will speak the truth the whole truth and nothing

15     but the truth.

16             May I invite to you make that solemn declaration.

17             THE WITNESS:  I solemnly declare that I will speak the truth, the

18     whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

19             JUDGE ORIE:  Thank you, Mr.  Lyntton.  Please be seated.

20             Mr.  Lyntton you will now be examined by Mr. Margetts, who is

21     counsel for the Prosecution.

22             Mr. Margetts.

23             MR. MARGETTS:  Thank you, Mr. President.

24                           WITNESS:  RICHARD LYNTTON

25                           Examination by Mr. Margetts:

Page 8784

 1        Q.   Good morning.  Could you please state your full name for the

 2     record?

 3        A.   Richard Lyntton.

 4        Q.   And, Mr. Lyntton, did you give a statement to the Office of the

 5     Prosecutor on the 3rd of October, 2001?

 6        A.   I did.

 7        Q.   And, Mr. Registrar, if 65 ter 5442 could be brought up on the

 8     screen, please.

 9             Mr.  Lyntton, if you can look at the left-hand side of the screen

10     there is that the statement that you gave to the Office of the

11     Prosecutor?

12        A.   Yes.

13        Q.   Now, if we can turn a page, please, Mr.  Registrar, and you'll

14     see, Mr. Lyntton, that on the side of the statement there are handwritten

15     annotations marking the numbers of the paragraphs.  Now, since you have

16     been in the in The Hague have you had an opportunity to review the

17     statement you gave and have you noted that those handwritten annotations

18     have been inserted by the Office of the Prosecutor in the statement?

19        A.   I have.

20        Q.   And apart from those handwritten annotations this is the

21     statement that you gave on the 3rd of October, 2001?

22        A.   Yes, indeed.

23        Q.   Thank you.

24             Now, since have you been in The Hague, have you had a chance to

25     review that statement and were there any corrections that you would like

Page 8785

 1     to make to that statement?

 2        A.   I have and there were some corrections.

 3        Q.   And if I may, Mr. Registrar, if we could move to page 3 of the

 4     statement, and to paragraph 14 of the statement.

 5             You will see in line 3 of paragraph 14, Mr. Lyntton, you refer to

 6     a group of new white mini-buses.  Since you have been in The Hague, have

 7     you been given the opportunity to review a video of the event that is

 8     described in paragraph 14?

 9        A.   I have.

10        Q.   And are there any corrections you would like it make to that

11     reference?

12        A.   Yes.

13        Q.   And what are they?

14        A.   There were in fact six vehicles, three -- three blue jeeps and

15     three white jeeps.

16        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Lyntton.

17             MR. MARGETTS:  If we could now move on page 5, please,

18     Mr.  Registrar.

19        Q.   Now, on this page of your statement, you will see that from

20     paragraphs 26 through paragraph 31, you refer to an interview that you

21     conducted with General Cermak.

22             At the bottom of the screen --

23             MR. MARGETTS:  And, Mr. Registrar, if we could scroll down a

24     little bit.

25        Q.   You'll see there's a reference there to August 26th, 1995.  Now,

Page 8786

 1     the implication being that the events under that reference occurred on

 2     August the 26th, 1995.

 3             Could you clarify with the Court whether on what day the events

 4     that are described in paragraphs 26 to 31 occurred?

 5        A.   The interview with General Cermak actually took place on the 26th

 6     and not the 25th.

 7        Q.   Thank you.

 8             If we could now move to paragraph 29 that can you see in the

 9     middle of the screen.  There's a reference to the interview, beginning at

10     around 1600 hours.  Is that correct or did the interview in fact begin on

11     the 26th at a different time.

12        A.   It was a different time.

13        Q.   And what was that time?

14        A.   It was -- I don't remember exactly but it was towards lunch-time.

15        Q.   Around about midday?

16        A.   Yeah.  I would put it at about 11.30.

17        Q.   Thank you.  And there adjust -- I'm just pausing to allow for the

18     French translation and the Croatian translation.

19             If I could now refer you to paragraph 27, and in particular, the

20     last sentence, wherein you state that you recall that Cermak said he

21     would -- that we could ask the questions in English and he would reply in

22     Croatian.  Did you have the opportunity to review the video of the

23     interview and is there any clarification that you'd like to give in

24     relation to that?

25        A.   Yes.  We -- I did review the interview, and around in fact we

Page 8787

 1     had -- we used an interpreter so I asked the English -- the questions in

 2     English and we used an interpreter to interpret my answer -- my

 3     questions.

 4        Q.   Thank you.  And apart from that does the October 2001 statement

 5     accurately reflect the content of the statement that you gave to the

 6     Office of the Prosecutor?

 7        A.   Yes.

 8        Q.   And would you give the same statement if you were asked the same

 9     questions today?

10        A.   I would.

11        Q.   And the statement together with the corrections that you've made

12     in court today is that true and accurate to the best of your knowledge?

13        A.   It is.

14             MR. MARGETTS:  Mr. President, could the October 2001 statement

15     please be given an exhibit number, and entered into evidence.

16             JUDGE ORIE:  Mr. Registrar.

17             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, this becomes Exhibit number P870.

18             JUDGE ORIE:  I hear of no objections.  Therefore, P870 is

19     admitted into evidence.

20             MR. MARGETTS:  Thank you, Mr. President.

21             Mr. President, I believe you will have received in the last hour,

22     and the parties as well, an updated exhibit list for this witness.  There

23     are six items apart from the ICTY statement on that exhibit list.  I'd

24     just like to clarify in respect of the last item.  We had initially

25     referenced and this is for the parties' reference as well.  We had

Page 8788

 1     initially referenced the full transcript of raw footage of an interview

 2     with Edward Flynn.  We're content that in fact the important components

 3     of that interview are covered by Exhibit P28, so we no longer wish to

 4     tender the full transcript of that interview with Mr. Flynn.

 5             The second clarification is that instead of introducing the full

 6     footage of the various videos that Mr. Lyntton shot, we have reduce the

 7     footage to the relevant sections and therefore we assigned new 65 ter

 8     numbers as you see in the left hand column.  And the other clarification

 9     is that the parties will be aware that all of the items on this exhibit

10     list were part of the 92 ter submission apart from the second item, which

11     is the 65 ter 5463, that item has referenced in the witness's

12     October 2001 statement just by a reference saying he took a video but

13     didn't have the specific identification but this is a video referenced in

14     paragraph 9 of his statement.

15             And with those clarifications, Mr. President, I'd like to move

16     the four documents that have not previously -- or the four videos and the

17     transcripts that have not previously been moved into evidence, into

18     evidence.  If I have could exhibit numbers for each of those items.

19             JUDGE ORIE:  Are there any objections?

20             MS. HIGGINS:  No objections Your Honour.

21             JUDGE ORIE:  No objections.  The Chamber earlier raised the issue

22     of whether we would admit very lengthy videos, hours and hours, this is

23     more limited in time.

24                           [Trial Chamber confers]

25             JUDGE ORIE:  The Chamber will admit the items even if not played

Page 8789

 1     in court.  I don't know if you want to play portions of it.

 2             MR. MARGETTS:  Mr. President, just some very small portion of one

 3     of the videos.

 4             JUDGE ORIE:  Mr. Registrar, I think we started 5463, 65 ter --

 5             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, that becomes Exhibit number P871.

 6             MR. MARGETTS:  Mr. President, I just heard the reference to 4563

 7     that is what has come up in the transcript.  I think it is 5463 was the

 8     first.

 9             JUDGE ORIE:  Yes, it's 5463.  P870 [sic] is admitted into

10     evidence.

11             Next one, P5464, Mr. Registrar.

12             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, just to clarify, the last exhibit

13     was 5463 and that was Exhibit P871.

14             JUDGE ORIE:  Yes, I'm making two mistakes at the same time.  It

15     was P871 is admitted into evidence.  Now the next one I leave it to you,

16     Mr. Registrar.

17             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, this is 65 ter 5464, that becomes

18     Exhibit number P872.

19             JUDGE ORIE:  Is admitted into evidence.  Next one would be --

20             MR. MARGETTS:  65 ter 5465.

21             THE REGISTRAR:  That becomes Exhibit number P873, Your Honours.

22             JUDGE ORIE:  Thank you and then the last one is P5466.

23             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, that becomes exhibit number P874,

24     Your Honours.

25             JUDGE ORIE:  Thank you, Mr. Registrar.

Page 8790

 1             Yes.  P873 and P874 are admitted into evidence as well.

 2             We have only limited time left, Mr. Margetts.

 3             MR. MARGETTS:  Yes.  I --

 4             JUDGE ORIE:  Two to three minutes.  I don't know if there's

 5     anything you could deal with in such a short period of time.

 6             MR. MARGETTS:  I just have the summary of the witness's evidence.

 7             JUDGE ORIE:  If you could read that and you have explained to --

 8     to Mr. Lyntton what purpose it serves.

 9             MR. MARGETTS:  Yes, Mr. President.

10             JUDGE ORIE:  Please proceed.

11             MR. MARGETTS:  In August 1995, Mr.  Lyntton was a television

12     producer working for UN TV.  He travelled to Knin in order to explore the

13     story of the Serbs that stayed behind after Operation Storm.  Upon

14     arriving, he was informed that there would be a meeting between local

15     residents in the Plavno valley and the local police chief.  He

16     accompanied the UN representative, Mr. Edward Flynn, to the Plavno valley

17     on the morning of the 25th of August, 1995 to attend the proposed

18     meeting.

19             Whilst en route, he interviewed an elderly couple in the area of

20     the Plavno valley who told him that special forces members had placed

21     them by a wall and threatened to shoot them.  The meeting in the Plavno

22     valley did not proceed as scheduled, since the police chief did not

23     arrive.

24             At around 11.00 on the 25th of August, the witness observed large

25     plumes of smoke arising across the valley, approximately three kilometres

Page 8791

 1     away.

 2             Together with his production team and Mr. Flynn, the witness

 3     proceeded to the source of the smoke which they soon discovered was

 4     Grubori village.  After filming homes on fire and interviewing villagers,

 5     the witness returned to Knin where he sought to arrange an interview with

 6     General Cermak, whom he had been told was the military governor in charge

 7     of the area.

 8             Next morning, on the 26th of August, 1995, the witness returned

 9     to the village of Grubori, where he observed and videoed two corpses of

10     elderly men, one who had been sought in the head and the other who had

11     had his throat cut.  The witness interviewed villagers in the course of

12     this visit.

13             He returned to Knin, and around 11.30 a.m., he conducted an

14     interview with General Cermak.  General Cermak denied that old people had

15     been forced out of their homes, and he denied that anyone had been shot

16     at close quarters in Grubori.  He asserted that there had been

17     anti-terrorist operations conducted in the area.

18             In the afternoon following the interview, the witness arranged

19     for the videotapes of the events in Grubori and the interview with

20     General Cermak to be transported to Zagreb by helicopter, and he returned

21     to Zagreb by road.

22             That concludes the summary, Mr. President.

23             JUDGE ORIE:  Thank you, Mr. Margetts.

24             THE INTERPRETER:  Microphone, please.

25             JUDGE ORIE:  Mr.  Lyntton, it was very short today.  I would like

Page 8792

 1     to instruct you not to speak with anyone about the testimony you have

 2     given already today and the testimony still to be given tomorrow, and

 3     we'd like to see you back tomorrow morning at 9.00 in Courtroom III.

 4             We stand adjourned and we resume on Tuesday, the 16th of

 5     September, in Courtroom III.

 6                            --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.49 p.m.,

 7                           to be reconvened on Tuesday, the 16th day of

 8                           September, 2008, at 9.00 a.m.