1 Monday, 15 September 2008
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 --- Upon commencing at 9.17 a.m.
5 JUDGE ORIE: Good morning to everyone.
6 Mr. Registrar would you please call the case.
7 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning, Your Honours. Good morning to
8 everyone in the courtroom. This is case number IT-06-90-T, the
9 Prosecutor versus Ante Gotovina, et al.
10 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Mr. Registrar.
11 The late start is to some extent, also due to the fact that the
12 statement we asked for was not received during the weekend but was only
13 here this morning, which surprised us because the Defence took great
14 effort putting a lot of statements not related to witness number one, but
15 to what seemed to have bothered them more than what the Chamber asked
17 I would like to go into private session.
18 [Private session]
11 Pages 8692-8697 redacted. Private session.
7 [Open session]
8 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're back in open session.
9 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Mr. Registrar.
10 When we were in private session, the Chamber has dealt with
11 procedural aspects in relation to an application for protective measures
12 for the next witness, Witness P-001.
13 The Chamber goes beyond what was asked, the parties agreeing on
14 this, and decides that the testimony of Witness P-001 will be heard in
15 closed session, reasons to be given orally in due course.
16 We turn into closed session.
17 [Closed session]
11 Pages 8699-8782 redacted. Closed session.
6 [Open session]
7 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're back in open session.
8 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Mr. Registrar.
9 [The witness entered court]
10 JUDGE ORIE: Good afternoon, Mr. Lyntton.
11 THE WITNESS: Yes, good afternoon, Your Honour.
12 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Lyntton, before you give evidence in this
13 court, the Rules of Procedure and Evidence require you to make a solemn
14 declaration, that you will speak the truth the whole truth and nothing
15 but the truth.
16 May I invite to you make that solemn declaration.
17 THE WITNESS: I solemnly declare that I will speak the truth, the
18 whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
19 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Mr. Lyntton. Please be seated.
20 Mr. Lyntton you will now be examined by Mr. Margetts, who is
21 counsel for the Prosecution.
22 Mr. Margetts.
23 MR. MARGETTS: Thank you, Mr. President.
24 WITNESS: RICHARD LYNTTON
25 Examination by Mr. Margetts:
1 Q. Good morning. Could you please state your full name for the
3 A. Richard Lyntton.
4 Q. And, Mr. Lyntton, did you give a statement to the Office of the
5 Prosecutor on the 3rd of October, 2001?
6 A. I did.
7 Q. And, Mr. Registrar, if 65 ter 5442 could be brought up on the
8 screen, please.
9 Mr. Lyntton, if you can look at the left-hand side of the screen
10 there is that the statement that you gave to the Office of the
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Now, if we can turn a page, please, Mr. Registrar, and you'll
14 see, Mr. Lyntton, that on the side of the statement there are handwritten
15 annotations marking the numbers of the paragraphs. Now, since you have
16 been in the in The Hague
17 statement you gave and have you noted that those handwritten annotations
18 have been inserted by the Office of the Prosecutor in the statement?
19 A. I have.
20 Q. And apart from those handwritten annotations this is the
21 statement that you gave on the 3rd of October, 2001?
22 A. Yes, indeed.
23 Q. Thank you.
24 Now, since have you been in The Hague, have you had a chance to
25 review that statement and were there any corrections that you would like
1 to make to that statement?
2 A. I have and there were some corrections.
3 Q. And if I may, Mr. Registrar, if we could move to page 3 of the
4 statement, and to paragraph 14 of the statement.
5 You will see in line 3 of paragraph 14, Mr. Lyntton, you refer to
6 a group of new white mini-buses. Since you have been in The Hague
7 you been given the opportunity to review a video of the event that is
8 described in paragraph 14?
9 A. I have.
10 Q. And are there any corrections you would like it make to that
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And what are they?
14 A. There were in fact six vehicles, three -- three blue jeeps and
15 three white jeeps.
16 Q. Thank you, Mr. Lyntton.
17 MR. MARGETTS: If we could now move on page 5, please,
18 Mr. Registrar.
19 Q. Now, on this page of your statement, you will see that from
20 paragraphs 26 through paragraph 31, you refer to an interview that you
21 conducted with General Cermak.
22 At the bottom of the screen --
23 MR. MARGETTS: And, Mr. Registrar, if we could scroll down a
24 little bit.
25 Q. You'll see there's a reference there to August 26th, 1995. Now,
1 the implication being that the events under that reference occurred on
2 August the 26th, 1995
3 Could you clarify with the Court whether on what day the events
4 that are described in paragraphs 26 to 31 occurred?
5 A. The interview with General Cermak actually took place on the 26th
6 and not the 25th.
7 Q. Thank you.
8 If we could now move to paragraph 29 that can you see in the
9 middle of the screen. There's a reference to the interview, beginning at
10 around 1600 hours. Is that correct or did the interview in fact begin on
11 the 26th at a different time.
12 A. It was a different time.
13 Q. And what was that time?
14 A. It was -- I don't remember exactly but it was towards lunch-time.
15 Q. Around about midday
16 A. Yeah. I would put it at about 11.30.
17 Q. Thank you. And there adjust -- I'm just pausing to allow for the
18 French translation and the Croatian translation.
19 If I could now refer you to paragraph 27, and in particular, the
20 last sentence, wherein you state that you recall that Cermak said he
21 would -- that we could ask the questions in English and he would reply in
22 Croatian. Did you have the opportunity to review the video of the
23 interview and is there any clarification that you'd like to give in
24 relation to that?
25 A. Yes. We -- I did review the interview, and around in fact we
1 had -- we used an interpreter so I asked the English -- the questions in
2 English and we used an interpreter to interpret my answer -- my
4 Q. Thank you. And apart from that does the October 2001 statement
5 accurately reflect the content of the statement that you gave to the
6 Office of the Prosecutor?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And would you give the same statement if you were asked the same
9 questions today?
10 A. I would.
11 Q. And the statement together with the corrections that you've made
12 in court today is that true and accurate to the best of your knowledge?
13 A. It is.
14 MR. MARGETTS: Mr. President, could the October 2001 statement
15 please be given an exhibit number, and entered into evidence.
16 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Registrar.
17 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, this becomes Exhibit number P870.
18 JUDGE ORIE: I hear of no objections. Therefore, P870 is
19 admitted into evidence.
20 MR. MARGETTS: Thank you, Mr. President.
21 Mr. President, I believe you will have received in the last hour,
22 and the parties as well, an updated exhibit list for this witness. There
23 are six items apart from the ICTY statement on that exhibit list. I'd
24 just like to clarify in respect of the last item. We had initially
25 referenced and this is for the parties' reference as well. We had
1 initially referenced the full transcript of raw footage of an interview
2 with Edward Flynn. We're content that in fact the important components
3 of that interview are covered by Exhibit P28, so we no longer wish to
4 tender the full transcript of that interview with Mr. Flynn.
5 The second clarification is that instead of introducing the full
6 footage of the various videos that Mr. Lyntton shot, we have reduce the
7 footage to the relevant sections and therefore we assigned new 65 ter
8 numbers as you see in the left hand column. And the other clarification
9 is that the parties will be aware that all of the items on this exhibit
10 list were part of the 92 ter submission apart from the second item, which
11 is the 65 ter 5463, that item has referenced in the witness's
12 October 2001 statement just by a reference saying he took a video but
13 didn't have the specific identification but this is a video referenced in
14 paragraph 9 of his statement.
15 And with those clarifications, Mr. President, I'd like to move
16 the four documents that have not previously -- or the four videos and the
17 transcripts that have not previously been moved into evidence, into
18 evidence. If I have could exhibit numbers for each of those items.
19 JUDGE ORIE: Are there any objections?
20 MS. HIGGINS: No objections Your Honour.
21 JUDGE ORIE: No objections. The Chamber earlier raised the issue
22 of whether we would admit very lengthy videos, hours and hours, this is
23 more limited in time.
24 [Trial Chamber confers]
25 JUDGE ORIE: The Chamber will admit the items even if not played
1 in court. I don't know if you want to play portions of it.
2 MR. MARGETTS: Mr. President, just some very small portion of one
3 of the videos.
4 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Registrar, I think we started 5463, 65 ter --
5 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that becomes Exhibit number P871.
6 MR. MARGETTS: Mr. President, I just heard the reference to 4563
7 that is what has come up in the transcript. I think it is 5463 was the
9 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, it's 5463. P870 [sic] is admitted into
11 Next one, P5464, Mr. Registrar.
12 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, just to clarify, the last exhibit
13 was 5463 and that was Exhibit P871.
14 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, I'm making two mistakes at the same time. It
15 was P871 is admitted into evidence. Now the next one I leave it to you,
16 Mr. Registrar.
17 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, this is 65 ter 5464, that becomes
18 Exhibit number P872.
19 JUDGE ORIE: Is admitted into evidence. Next one would be --
20 MR. MARGETTS: 65 ter 5465.
21 THE REGISTRAR: That becomes Exhibit number P873, Your Honours.
22 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you and then the last one is P5466.
23 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that becomes exhibit number P874,
24 Your Honours.
25 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Mr. Registrar.
1 Yes. P873 and P874 are admitted into evidence as well.
2 We have only limited time left, Mr. Margetts.
3 MR. MARGETTS: Yes. I --
4 JUDGE ORIE: Two to three minutes. I don't know if there's
5 anything you could deal with in such a short period of time.
6 MR. MARGETTS: I just have the summary of the witness's evidence.
7 JUDGE ORIE: If you could read that and you have explained to --
8 to Mr. Lyntton what purpose it serves.
9 MR. MARGETTS: Yes, Mr. President.
10 JUDGE ORIE: Please proceed.
11 MR. MARGETTS: In August 1995, Mr. Lyntton was a television
12 producer working for UN TV. He travelled to Knin in order to explore the
13 story of the Serbs that stayed behind after Operation Storm. Upon
14 arriving, he was informed that there would be a meeting between local
15 residents in the Plavno valley and the local police chief. He
16 accompanied the UN representative, Mr. Edward Flynn, to the Plavno valley
17 on the morning of the 25th of August, 1995 to attend the proposed
19 Whilst en route, he interviewed an elderly couple in the area of
20 the Plavno valley who told him that special forces members had placed
21 them by a wall and threatened to shoot them. The meeting in the Plavno
22 valley did not proceed as scheduled, since the police chief did not
24 At around 11.00 on the 25th of August, the witness observed large
25 plumes of smoke arising across the valley, approximately three kilometres
2 Together with his production team and Mr. Flynn, the witness
3 proceeded to the source of the smoke which they soon discovered was
4 Grubori village. After filming homes on fire and interviewing villagers,
5 the witness returned to Knin where he sought to arrange an interview with
6 General Cermak, whom he had been told was the military governor in charge
7 of the area.
8 Next morning, on the 26th of August, 1995, the witness returned
9 to the village of Grubori
10 elderly men, one who had been sought in the head and the other who had
11 had his throat cut. The witness interviewed villagers in the course of
12 this visit.
13 He returned to Knin, and around 11.30 a.m., he conducted an
14 interview with General Cermak. General Cermak denied that old people had
15 been forced out of their homes, and he denied that anyone had been shot
16 at close quarters in Grubori. He asserted that there had been
17 anti-terrorist operations conducted in the area.
18 In the afternoon following the interview, the witness arranged
19 for the videotapes of the events in Grubori and the interview with
20 General Cermak to be transported to Zagreb by helicopter, and he returned
21 to Zagreb
22 That concludes the summary, Mr. President.
23 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Mr. Margetts.
24 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please.
25 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Lyntton, it was very short today. I would like
1 to instruct you not to speak with anyone about the testimony you have
2 given already today and the testimony still to be given tomorrow, and
3 we'd like to see you back tomorrow morning at 9.00 in Courtroom III.
4 We stand adjourned and we resume on Tuesday, the 16th of
5 September, in Courtroom III
6 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.49 p.m.
7 to be reconvened on Tuesday, the 16th day of
8 September, 2008, at 9.00 a.m.