Page 1394
1 Friday, 16 November 2012
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 --- Upon commencing at 9.00 a.m.
5 JUDGE DELVOIE: Good morning to everyone in and around the
6 courtroom, and particularly to you, Mr. Zivanovic. We are very pleased
7 to see you back in court and we hope you are well.
8 MR. ZIVANOVIC: Thank you, Your Honour.
9 JUDGE DELVOIE: Mr. Registrar, could you call the case, please.
10 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning, Your Honours. This is case number
11 IT-04-75-T, the Prosecutor versus Goran Hadzic. Thank you.
12 JUDGE DELVOIE: Thank you.
13 May we have the appearances, please, starting with the
14 Prosecution.
15 MR. OLMSTED: Good morning, Your Honours. Matthew Olmsted,
16 Matthew Gillet, and Case Manager Thomas Laugel for the Prosecution.
17 JUDGE DELVOIE: Thank you.
18 And for the Defence.
19 MR. ZIVANOVIC: Good morning, Your Honours. For Defence of
20 Goran Hadzic, Zoran Zivanovic and Christopher Gosnell. Thank you.
21 JUDGE DELVOIE: Thank you.
22 Could we go into closed session and have the witness brought into
23 court.
24 [Closed session]
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6 [Open session]
7 THE REGISTRAR: We are back in open session, Your Honours. Thank
8 you.
9 JUDGE DELVOIE: Thank you.
10 MR. GOSNELL:
11 Q. So is it correct to say that you first learned that the
12 11 individuals who were taken away by Arkan, according to the document,
13 the first that you learned of their death was in 1995; is that correct?
14 A. That's what I heard. These weren't the names and surnames that I
15 was told. All those people who disappeared, who were taken away by
16 Arkan, on the whole disappeared. They went missing. They were killed.
17 But in 1998 -- towards the end of 1998, and this can be seen in the
18 documents, too, or, rather, there was an exhumation that was carried out
19 and these individuals were recovered. These bodies were recovered.
20 Q. So does that mean that the first time that you drew a connection
21 between those names on the document and their death was, in fact, in
22 1998?
23 A. That's correct.
24 Q. And when you were having your conversation with Mr. Cizmic on or
25 about the 23rd or 24th of September, you didn't know that those
Page 1402
1 11 individuals had been killed, correct?
2 A. I didn't know.
3 Q. Did you hear from Mr. Cizmic his view that these 11 individuals
4 had been taken to the TO centre in Erdut and were being used by Arkan to
5 assist in some kind of construction?
6 A. No, I really didn't hear anything about them.
7 Q. You've told us some information about the reasons that you heard
8 for -- for the release of Mr. Sutalo and Mr. Palinkas. Did you ever seek
9 out Mr. Sutalo or Mr. Palinkas to obtain more details about what may have
10 happened on the evening of the 21st of September at the Zadruga detention
11 facility? Without identifying your position at the time.
12 A. Very well, I won't mention that. But I had no reasons to look
13 for them and it wasn't possible for me to do so either, because they were
14 in the Republic of Croatia and we were still in the SAO Krajina. In
15 1998, the Croatian police arrived and assumed responsibility. They
16 returned to their own state, in fact. So I couldn't check anything and I
17 couldn't establish contact with them either.
18 Q. You remained in Dalj between the 24th of September and the
19 16th of October, 1991; is that correct?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And during that period of time, did you have any information
22 about the whereabouts of Mr. Sutalo or Mr. Palinkas?
23 A. I didn't.
24 Q. Did you ask Mr. Cizmic to --
25 MR. GOSNELL: For this, Your Honour, I think we do need to go
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2 JUDGE DELVOIE: Private session, please.
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11 THE REGISTRAR: We are in open session, Your Honours. Thank you.
12 JUDGE DELVOIE: Mr. Olmsted.
13 MR. OLMSTED: Thank you, Your Honours. This is with regard to
14 Exhibit P240, which was marked for identification during the previous
15 witness's direct examination. It's my understanding that the -- it's a
16 video, and the transcripts -- it was subtitled, the transcripts have now
17 been uploaded into e-court and we ask that they be linked to this exhibit
18 and that the status -- that the MFI status be removed from this document
19 and it be fully admitted.
20 JUDGE DELVOIE: Can we do that for the moment, Mr. Registrar?
21 [Trial Chamber and Registrar confer]
22 JUDGE DELVOIE: Okay. So they are linked. Let's just admit them
23 and remove the MFI status. Okay.
24 Nothing else? There is no other witness available, Mr. Olmsted?
25 MR. OLMSTED: We're just happy we were able to get done with one
Page 1419
1 witness this week, so unfortunately no.
2 JUDGE DELVOIE: Okay. Court adjourned.
3 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 9.59 a.m.,
4 to be reconvened on Monday, the 19th day
5 of November, 2012, at 9.00 a.m.
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