1 Monday, 19 November 2012
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 --- Upon commencing at 9.05 a.m.
5 JUDGE DELVOIE: Good morning to everyone in and around the
7 May the record reflect that this late start is due to technical
8 problems. Could you call the case, Mr. Registrar.
9 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning, Your Honours. This is case
10 IT-04-75-T, the Prosecutor versus Goran Hadzic. Thank you.
11 JUDGE DELVOIE: Thank you. May we have the appearances starting
12 with the Prosecution, please.
13 MR. STRINGER: Good morning, Mr. President, Your Honours.
14 Douglas Stringer, Alexis Demirdjian, and Case Manager Thomas Laugel for
15 the Prosecution.
16 JUDGE DELVOIE: Thank you. For the Defence, Mr. Zivanovic.
17 MR. ZIVANOVIC: Good morning, Your Honours. Zoran Zivanovic and
18 Chris Gosnell for the Defence.
19 JUDGE DELVOIE: Thank you. We go into closed session.
20 [Closed session]
11 Pages 1421-1459 redacted. Closed session.
11 [Open session]
12 THE REGISTRAR: We are in open session, Your Honours. Thank you.
13 JUDGE DELVOIE: So OTP calls its next witness, which is 091. Is
14 that right, Mr. Demirdjian?
15 MR. DEMIRDJIAN: 75, Your Honours.
16 JUDGE DELVOIE: 75. Yes, indeed. Sorry.
17 [The witness entered court]
18 JUDGE DELVOIE: Good morning, Mr. Witness. Thank you for coming
19 to The Hague to assist the Trial Chamber.
20 First of all, do you hear me in a language you understand?
21 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I can.
22 JUDGE DELVOIE: Could you please tell us your name, your date of
23 birth, and your ethnicity?
24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Milan Miladinovic. 2nd February,
1 JUDGE DELVOIE: And your ethnicity, please.
2 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Serb.
3 JUDGE DELVOIE: Thank you. You are about to read the solemn
4 declaration by which witnesses commit themselves to tell the truth. I
5 have to point out to you that the solemn declaration that you are about
6 to make does expose you to the penalties of perjury should you give
7 misleading or untruthful evidence to the Tribunal.
8 Please read the solemn declaration now.
9 WITNESS: MILAN MILADINOVIC
10 [Witness answered through interpretation]
11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will
12 speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
13 JUDGE DELVOIE: Thank you very much. You may be seated.
14 Mr. Demirdjian, your witness.
15 MR. DEMIRDJIAN: Thank you, Your Honours.
16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Could this be turned up, please?
17 MR. DEMIRDJIAN: Yes. The witness needs the volume to be turned
18 up. He --
19 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] It's okay now.
20 MR. DEMIRDJIAN: Great.
21 Examination by Mr. Demirdjian:
22 Q. Good morning, Mr. Miladinovic.
23 A. Good morning.
24 Q. Sir, it is correct to say that you have been met by the Office of
25 the Prosecutor in May of 2001 and that you gave a statement on that
1 occasion; is that right?
2 A. Yes.
3 MR. DEMIRDJIAN: Can we pull up the statement, please? It is
4 65 ter 2449.
5 Q. And you will see, Mr. Miladinovic, the statement appear on the
6 screen in front of you to your right. On the right-hand side you will
7 see, I believe, the English version, and on the left-hand side you will
8 see the statement in the Serbian version. Do you see them?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Now in 2001, when you gave this statement, it was first written
11 in English and it was read back to you in your language; is that right?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And at the bottom of the English version --
14 MR. DEMIRDJIAN: If we could scroll down.
15 Q. I believe that your statement appears there.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Now you were also met by members of the Office of the Prosecutor
18 in September this year; is that right?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And we discussed matters relating to the content of your
21 statement; is that correct?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Now in relation to this statement you gave in May 2001, is this
24 statement -- does this statement accurately reflect your evidence?
25 A. Yes.
1 Q. And if you were asked the same questions today in the courtroom,
2 would you give the same answers?
3 A. Yes.
4 MR. DEMIRDJIAN: Your Honours, could I ask for the witness's
5 statement to be admitted, along with the associated exhibit? There is
7 JUDGE DELVOIE: Admitted and marked.
8 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, 65 ter document 2449, witness's
9 statement, shall be assigned Exhibit P267. Thank you.
10 JUDGE DELVOIE: Thank you.
11 MR. DEMIRDJIAN:
12 Q. Mr. Miladinovic, when you arrived in The Hague, you were also
13 shown the proofing note which was made in September when you were visited
14 by members of the Office of the Prosecutor. Do you remember that?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And you read this statement. You were given an opportunity to
17 review it; is that right?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And you had one clarification to make in relation to this
20 proofing note, and I will ask you a question about it now. In your
21 statement you make references to the -- to where Goran Hadzic was
22 stationed in Dalj. Now the proofing note states that he was stationed in
23 the department store near the main street, and I think you wish to
24 correct that. Could you tell us where he was stationed in Dalj?
25 A. Next to the department store there is the shop of
1 Bozidar Masaric, just next door to the department store.
2 Q. And is that where he had -- where he was stationed?
3 A. Yes, that's where he was supposed to be stationed.
4 Q. Very well. Now at page 3 of your statement you explain, and you
5 describe the attack on Dalj on the 1st of August, 1991. And you say
7 "We knew that the attack would be launched on 1 August 1991, but
8 we were not sure about the time."
9 Can you first of all clarify --
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Could you first of all clarify for the Trial Chamber who you mean
12 when you say "we," "we knew the attack would come"? Who do you mean by
14 A. Well, we in the village. Most everyone already knew that there
15 would be an attack.
16 Q. And how did you know that the attack was imminent? How was that
17 information conveyed to you?
18 A. Well, there was a number of people who constantly commuted to
19 Borovo and Dalj and through them the news reached us.
20 Q. And could you tell the Trial Chamber who were these people?
21 A. Well, they were closer to the SDS, those people who travelled
22 unhindered even by the Croatian police at the time, so they were able to
23 go back and forth. And it's from them we learned that an attack was
24 coming. We didn't know exactly when but we knew it was coming. The
25 rumour was all around the village.
1 Q. Now during the attack where were you exactly?
2 A. I was at home.
3 Q. And what did you hear during the attack exactly?
4 A. I don't understand. What do you mean?
5 Q. Sorry. Let me take you to your statement at page 3. You say
6 that the attack started at 4.00 in the morning:
7 "... and later on I learned that the assault was launched from
8 the direction of Borovo."
9 So perhaps the better question is: Did you hear anything during
10 the attack?
11 A. Well, we could hear the shooting when the attack began.
12 Q. And again coming back to my question about who knew about the
13 attack, you told us that the SDS members conveyed this information to
14 you. Did they inform -- well, who did they inform? Did they inform
15 everyone in the municipality or members of -- oh, yeah.
16 A. No, the -- that was not the case that anybody informed anybody.
17 It's those people who were on good terms with everyone. People shared
18 the news and that's how eventually we all learned that an attack was
20 Q. Now after the attack, you mention that -- in your statement at
21 page 3, you mention the creation of the TO staff in Dalj and you explain
22 that the commander was Pavle Milovanovic.
23 A. [No interpretation]
24 Q. Now on this page you also provide a number of names. And I'd
25 like to bring your attention to the name Djorde Calosevic, aka Briga.
1 Did you know this person before the war?
2 A. I knew him. Not that well, but I knew him. He wasn't in Dalj
3 all the time. He was in Bosnia for a while. Then he came to Dalj. Then
4 he worked for a while in Osijek. I knew him slightly.
5 Q. And here you say that when the TO staff was created he became --
6 or was involved, actively involved with the TO command; is that right?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And could you tell us whether -- well, what was his role, if you
9 know, in the TO command?
10 A. I think he was president of the municipality. At that time Dalj
11 was a municipality.
12 Q. Do you know whether he's still alive today?
13 A. I think he is.
14 Q. And do you know where he lives?
15 A. I know that he's across the border in Serbia but I don't know
16 where exactly.
17 Q. Very well. Now you mention at page 4 of your statement that you
18 kept working for IPK Dalj after the attack of the 1st of August; is that
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Were you asked to join the Territorial Defence?
22 A. No, no. Nobody asked me.
23 Q. So you remained an employee of IPK Dalj; is that right?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Could you tell us who your superior was in IPK Dalj?
1 A. My superior was Dragan Lovric.
2 Q. And was he -- did he remain your superior after the attack?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And could you tell the Trial Chamber where your offices were in
6 A. Within the compound in one of the offices.
7 Q. And could you tell us where the compound was located in Dalj?
8 A. The company itself is not far from the railway station, on the
9 periphery of Dalj, as you go towards Osijek.
10 Q. I would like to show you a map.
11 MR. DEMIRDJIAN: Which is 65 ter 6241. And this is at tab 9.
12 Q. Now, Mr. Miladinovic, you will see in a moment a map or an aerial
13 image of the village of Dalj, and with the help of the usher I would like
14 you to identify the location of IPK Dalj. Do you see the map in front of
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Very well. Are you able to locate the IPK workshop and the
18 offices on this aerial image?
19 A. Here.
20 Q. Can you circle it? Okay, can you place a -- can you circle the
21 area of the IPK workshop?
22 A. [Marks]
23 Q. And this is the office which is near the railway station; is that
25 A. Yes.
1 Q. Can you mark with a number 1 where the railway station is, if you
2 are able to see it on this image?
3 A. [Marks]
4 Q. And for the sake of the completeness, could you mark the IPK with
5 number 2.
6 A. [Marks]
7 MR. DEMIRDJIAN: Could I ask for this image to be seized and
8 marked, Your Honours.
9 JUDGE DELVOIE: Please, Mr. Registrar.
10 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, 65 ter document 6241, marked by the
11 witness in court, shall be assigned Exhibit P269. Just for the record,
12 the associated Exhibit 2450 was assigned Exhibit P268.267. Thank you.
13 JUDGE DELVOIE: Thank you.
14 MR. DEMIRDJIAN:
15 Q. Sir, later in your statement - and I will come to that - you talk
16 about the events at Lovas farm, and you mention hangars where people were
17 kept from Vukovar. Are those hangers visible in this image?
18 A. The hangar is at Lovas. You mean that one?
19 Q. I mean the hangars where people were brought from Vukovar. You
20 state in your statement that people were held in Dalj.
21 A. Those are the hangars.
22 Q. So this is the same location that you had marked as number 2 in
23 the previous image; is that right?
24 A. Yes, yes.
25 Q. Very well.
1 MR. DEMIRDJIAN: We don't need to tender this image. We already
2 have it on the record.
3 Q. Now, sir, after the JNA and the TO took control of Dalj, you told
4 us that -- well, can you tell us first of all what happened to the
5 non-Serb population in Dalj?
6 A. I don't understand.
7 Q. Let me rephrase my question. You explained to us that on the
8 1st of August there was an attack on the town and that the TO staff was
9 created. After this 1st of August, can you tell the Trial Chamber what
10 happened to the non-Serb population, so the Croats, Hungarians,
11 et cetera?
12 A. They were in labour platoons.
13 Q. And did they all remain in Dalj?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. So did there come a time where non-Serbs from Dalj were taken
16 somewhere by boat?
17 A. The only people who left Dalj -- the only non-Serbs who left Dalj
18 went to Osijek from Aljmas by that ship.
19 Q. And what proportion of the non-Serb population left from Aljmas
20 by ship?
21 A. I think 90 per cent left.
22 Q. Now, at page 3 of your statement, you mention a man by the name
23 of Milorad Stricevic and you indicate that he was put in charge of
24 interrogation of non-Serb villagers, those who remained in Dalj. Can you
25 tell us when you heard that Stricevic was put in charge of
2 A. Yes. Well, that was on the second day, when those people from
3 the SDS came from Bogojevo [as interpreted], they immediately set upon
4 deciding who's going to be whom in the village.
5 Q. And just to be perfectly clear, what do you mean by "the second
7 A. I mean the second day of the attack. It was known immediately
8 who was going to be in charge of questioning, another one was president
9 of the municipality, a third one was the main man in the village. That
10 was the second day after the attack, when the municipality was being
12 Q. Very well. Before the conflict, did you know where Stricevic was
14 A. Stricevic was from Dalj.
15 Q. Okay. And when you say in your statement that he was in charge
16 of interrogations, could you tell us what you heard about these
18 A. He was in charge of interrogating those people who had been
19 arrested, who had been on the Croatian side and were then arrested. He
20 was in charge of conducting their questioning, to get them to say some
21 things about Croatian plans. That's, I believe, what the questioning
22 concentrated on.
23 Q. And did you hear about how he conducted this questioning?
24 A. Well, the questioning was normal between Serbs and Croats. The
25 questioning was the sort of questioning you have when there is a war
1 going on. There were beatings and so on and so forth.
2 Q. I'd like to move on to the part of your statement where you
3 explain how you were ordered to bury bodies in a few instances. The
4 first instance you mention is the five bodies that were discovered on the
5 road to Trpinjska Cesta. You explained this was in September or October,
6 and you explained in your statement as to how you helped digging a hole
7 for the burial of five Croats. Now, in your statement you say that when
8 you were helping out with the burial, you did not know the reasons, but
9 you later learned that these men were killed by Arkan. Could you tell
10 the Trial Chamber how much time after the burial of these five Croats you
11 learned of Arkan's involvement?
12 A. Well, I learned about it. When I finished work, when I returned
13 home in the village, it was known that Arkan was heading towards Vukovar,
14 that he killed those people and left them in the cornfields.
15 Q. So you say you learned this when you returned home in the
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Just to establish the time-period, how much time after you
19 returned to the village did you hear about this?
20 A. As far as I can remember, it was in the morning at around 9.00.
21 I was digging. My shift ended about 1.00 or 2.00 in the afternoon.
22 Q. Now you mention that you were asked to help out with this burial
23 by, again, Mr. Djordje Calosevic. Did Mr. Calosevic make any comments
24 during the burial?
25 MR. GOSNELL: Objection. We have no notice of the content of
1 this testimony in the proofing note or the statement.
2 JUDGE DELVOIE: Mr. Demirdjian.
3 MR. DEMIRDJIAN: Let me get back to that, Your Honours. I'll
4 strike that question for now.
5 Q. Mr. Miladinovic, I'd like to move now to the events at -- that
6 you describe about the Lovas farm. Now in this second -- in this
7 instance you explain that you were ordered by Pavle Milovanovic to drive
8 your excavator to Lovas farm; is that correct?
9 A. Yes.
10 MR. DEMIRDJIAN: Could I ask that we display on the screen
11 65 ter 6242, which is at tab 10.
12 Q. Mr. Miladinovic, we are going to now look at another aerial image
13 of the area around Dalj. In the meantime, could you tell us what is the
14 distance generally between Dalj and Lovas farm?
15 A. Well, I don't know. 4 kilometres or 2 or 3 kilometres. Not more
16 than that. 3 kilometres.
17 MR. DEMIRDJIAN: Can I ask that we zoom a little bit on the
18 bottom half. And scroll all the way down.
19 Q. On this aerial image, Mr. Miladinovic, are you able to locate
20 Lovas farm, roughly?
21 A. This part here. Here it is.
22 Q. Could you mark that, please.
23 MR. DEMIRDJIAN: It keeps zooming in, I think, instead of
25 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes. That's it. This area here.
1 MR. DEMIRDJIAN: Can we zoom up, please, before the witness marks
2 it. Thank you.
3 So let's zoom in again the bottom half, just to have a bit of
4 perspective. A little bit more. Just a little bit more. Okay.
5 Q. Can you mark it now, Mr. Miladinovic.
6 A. [Marks]
7 Q. And can you tell us which road you took with the excavator to
8 make your way to Lovas farm?
9 A. You can't see it here. You can't see it in this photograph, but
10 it would be more or less here. From the beginning and then in this
12 Q. Now we see that Lovas farm is located close to the river and
13 you've made a little marking to the right. So we see a marking to the
14 right and we see a main road. You did not take the main road. Is that
15 what you're saying?
16 A. Well, when you go from Dalj to Borovo it's on the left. Now it's
17 to the right when you go towards Dalj. I'm referring to the farm.
18 Q. And just to make this clear, which road do you take to go from
19 Dalj to Borovo?
20 A. When you go from Dalj to Borovo, the farm is on the left-hand
22 Q. Okay. And is that the road you took?
23 A. Yes.
24 MR. DEMIRDJIAN: Can I ask this map to be marked, Your Honours.
25 JUDGE DELVOIE: Admitted and marked.
1 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, 65 ter document 6242, marked by the
2 witness in court, shall be assigned Exhibit P270. Thank you.
3 JUDGE DELVOIE: Thank you.
4 MR. DEMIRDJIAN:
5 Q. Now when you arrived at Lovas farm, sir, you tell us that along
6 with Milovanovic there are two men there. I should say three, sorry.
7 You mention Mr. Zeljko Pajic and man named Calosevic, aka Fafrika, and
8 you mention a third man whose name you did not know. Starting with
9 Zeljko Pajic, can you tell us who he was and what functions he occupied
10 in Dalj?
11 A. They were in the SDS. As for his function, I don't know what his
12 official position was but I do know that he was a member of the SDS.
13 Q. And you say you don't know his function. Did you know which
14 organisation he worked with -- sorry, he worked for?
15 A. No, I don't know anything about that.
16 Q. And the second person, Calosevic, whose nickname is Fafrika, can
17 you tell us who he was? Did you know him?
18 A. They were also in the SDS. They were closer to the SDS, together
19 with Pajo, so naturally they performed all those duties together with
21 Q. Now you say in your statement that once you arrived you saw
22 bodies lying on the ground and that it appeared that they were killed
23 only recently. When you arrived there, how were the -- well, how were
24 the bodies? Where were they?
25 A. Yes. They were on the grounds of the farm scattered around, very
1 recently killed, allegedly.
2 MR. DEMIRDJIAN: And if we could pull up, actually, 65 ter 6278.
3 Q. You will see now, sir, an image of this area. You have already
4 marked or drew a sketch of this, so I will not ask you to indicate again
5 every location. Do you recognise this image, first of all?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. And can you tell us what it is? What are we looking at?
8 A. Well, this is the farm. The grounds of the farm. This is the
9 area where the bodies were buried. This is where I buried them.
10 Q. Now show us the entrance of the farm? Can you mark it with a
11 number 1.
12 A. I didn't understand that. What location were you referring to?
13 Q. The entrance to the farm.
14 A. The entrance. Somewhere here.
15 Q. And when you entered the farm, in which area were the bodies
17 A. The bodies were even further away on the grounds of the farm. If
18 I can show you like this, it would be somewhere around here. That's
19 where the bodies were located.
20 Q. Could you mark that with a number 2.
21 A. When you enter the farm, you pass by an office, and you turn
22 left. There was a sort of field toilet there, and that's where these
23 bodies that had been killed were scattered, in the vicinity of that
25 Q. Right. And this area, could you mark it with a number 2, please.
1 A. I am to mark it with number 2, the location where the bodies were
3 Q. Yes.
4 A. [Marks]
5 Q. Now the road that we see on this image from where you enter Lovas
6 farm, can you tell us which road is this?
7 A. Well, the road is here. You enter the farm from the road.
8 That's how I entered with the excavator. There is an asphalt road here
9 behind the office and in front of the office, and you can use it -- or,
10 you can travel down this road to get as far as the field toilet.
11 Q. Let me rephrase that. I am talking about this road that we see
12 from where you entered. Where you marked the number 1, there seems to be
13 a road going from north-south. Could you tell us what that road is?
14 A. This road continues to Osijek. This one goes on to Borovo, and
15 the one to the left leads to Osijek.
16 MR. DEMIRDJIAN: Your Honours, I have about ten more minutes. Is
17 this the appropriate time for the break or?
18 JUDGE DELVOIE: Yes, it is, but we should clarify about the road
19 because I am not sure that the witness understood what -- what you were
20 exactly asking.
21 MR. DEMIRDJIAN: Right.
22 JUDGE DELVOIE: You were asking about the road that goes from the
23 top of the image to the bottom.
24 MR. DEMIRDJIAN: Yes.
25 JUDGE DELVOIE: Okay. But we'll come back to that after the --
1 MR. DEMIRDJIAN: Sure.
2 JUDGE DELVOIE: -- after the break.
3 MR. DEMIRDJIAN: And in the meantime, maybe we could seize the
4 image --
5 JUDGE DELVOIE: Yes, okay.
6 MR. DEMIRDJIAN: -- to make sure we don't lose the information
7 and mark it.
8 JUDGE DELVOIE: Admitted and marked.
9 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, 65 ter document 6278, marked by the
10 witness in court, shall be assigned Exhibit P271, marked for
11 identification. Thank you.
12 JUDGE DELVOIE: Thank you.
13 Mr. Witness, we will take a break now and come back at 12.45.
14 The Court Usher will escort you out of court. Thank you.
15 [The witness stands down]
16 JUDGE DELVOIE: Court adjourned.
17 --- Recess taken at 12.18 p.m.
18 --- On resuming at 12.46 p.m.
19 [The witness takes the stand]
20 JUDGE DELVOIE: Yes, Mr. Demirdjian. Please proceed.
21 MR. DEMIRDJIAN: Thank you, Your Honours.
22 Q. Mr. Miladinovic, the image should still be on the screen before
23 you. We just wanted to clarify this main road again. You told us that
24 it goes to Borovo and to Osijek. So where would Borovo be located in
25 relation to this area?
1 A. Borovo is somewhere here.
2 Q. For the record, you're pointing towards the south; is that right?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Now going north, which is the first village that one would
6 A. There are no villages out to the left or to the right. There is
7 only Dalj and Borovo. But this road on the left leads to the village of
8 Klisa -- or, rather, Vera, but that is 4 or 5 kilometres away. Not more
9 than that.
10 Q. So you told us there is only Dalj and Borovo. So just to be
11 clear: This road going north to south, is that the Dalj to Borovo road?
12 A. Yes, towards Dalj.
13 Q. Thank you. Now in your statement at page 5, you tell us that you
14 learned that the people that you had buried at -- by the Lovas farm
15 belongs to a group of Croats who had been brought from Vukovar and who
16 were held in the IPK hangars. Now I would like to ask you, were you
17 present when the people were brought at the hangars in Dalj?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And could you tell us how these people were brought from Dalj?
20 A. To Dalj or from Dalj?
21 Q. How these people were brought to Dalj from Vukovar.
22 A. By bus. By buses.
23 Q. Okay. Could you tell us how many buses you saw?
24 A. I don't know. I would say that there were about ten buses.
25 Q. And when these buses were brought to Dalj, you tell us that they
1 were brought to hangars of IPK Dalj, how many hangars are we talking
2 about here?
3 A. How many hangars there were?
4 Q. Yes.
5 A. There were four hangars.
6 Q. And were you there when people were taken from the buses into the
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And can you tell us who was overseeing this operation?
10 A. The army was overseeing it.
11 Q. And did you see any members of the army?
12 A. Well, yes. They were there by the buses when they were getting
14 Q. And can you tell us how were people taken into the hangars? How
15 was this organised?
16 A. Well, as the buses arrived, the men were taken to one hangar and
17 the women to another.
18 Q. Very well. The last topic that I would like to deal with is --
19 well, slightly related to this. You explained to us that the people held
20 in the hangars were held for one night. Do you know where these people
21 were taken on the following day?
22 A. Well, on the following day they went to Novi Sad. That's what
23 they said. To the SPENS hall.
24 Q. Now during the rest of 1991 and during the course of 1992, to
25 your knowledge, were there other operations whereby Croats were
1 transported out of Dalj?
2 A. I don't know anything about that.
3 Q. Were there situations where Croats left Dalj?
4 A. Well, I think there were some who went to Osijek for Christmas,
5 or, rather, they were driven out. That was the second time. Driven out
6 by those who were -- played prominent roles in Dalj.
7 Q. And can you explain to the Trial Chamber how they were driven
9 A. Well, at Christmas for some reason, for the purpose of looting
10 and because of the houses, it was necessary for all the Croats to be
11 driven out of their houses and taken to Osijek. This was organised.
12 They were taken there by bus. They were put on the buses and driven to
14 Q. How did you learn about this?
15 A. Well, it was well known. One could see the buses that were
16 there, and people went to the Croatian houses and forced them to get on
17 the buses and go to Osijek.
18 Q. And you say that this was done by people who played prominent
19 roles in Dalj. Did you see on those occasions who these people were?
20 A. No, I couldn't see who they were. Pajo and his close associates,
21 his assistants, were those who were most important there.
22 Q. Thank you for answering my questions.
23 MR. DEMIRDJIAN: That's all I ask, Your Honours.
24 JUDGE DELVOIE: Thank you.
25 The last exhibit, Mr. Demirdjian, the Registrar tells me that it
1 is MFI'd. No?
2 MR. DEMIRDJIAN: It --
3 JUDGE DELVOIE: P271.
4 MR. DEMIRDJIAN: Yes, I see it here. It says "marked for
5 identification." But I was asking to tender it in full. I think that
6 perhaps we were expecting more markings at the time, but we can tender it
7 in full at this time.
8 JUDGE DELVOIE: Okay. Admitted and marked.
9 MR. DEMIRDJIAN: Thank you.
10 JUDGE MINDUA: [Interpretation] Yes, Witness, Mr. Miladinovic, I
11 just want to clarify something.
12 In the transcript, page 59, line 40 -- or lines 40 to 44, you
13 mention the army that was overseeing the operation that was taking people
14 out of the buses and placing them in hangars. Which army are we speaking
16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, the army that was in Vukovar.
17 The regular army.
18 JUDGE MINDUA: [Interpretation] Could you remind me what the name
19 of this regular army is, in fact?
20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I don't understand what you mean
21 when you say "what was its name."
22 JUDGE MINDUA: [Interpretation] Was it -- well, in fact, each army
23 has a name. What kind of force was present there? It belonged to which
24 government, in fact?
25 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, it was the JNA, the
1 Yugoslav Peoples' Army.
2 JUDGE MINDUA: [Interpretation] Thank you very much. Thank you.
3 JUDGE DELVOIE: Cross-examination.
4 MR. GOSNELL: Thank you, Mr. President.
5 Cross-examination by Mr. Gosnell:
6 Q. Good morning, Mr. -- or good afternoon, Mr. Miladinovic. My name
7 is Christopher Gosnell. I represent Mr. Hadzic and I will be asking you
8 just a few questions. If there is anything that is not clear, please ask
9 me for further clarification or specification. Do you understand that?
10 A. Yes.
11 THE INTERPRETER: Could the witness be asked to move closer to
12 the microphone, please.
13 MR. GOSNELL:
14 Q. Mr. Witness, the interpreters are asking whether you could
15 speak -- perhaps you could move the microphone closer to your mouth.
16 Now, sir, just to pick up on the last subject that you were being
17 asked about by the Prosecutor, and this was some Croats being forced out
18 at around Christmas time, according to you. Do you remember us just
19 speaking about that a couple of minutes ago?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Do you recall that when you were speaking to the Prosecutor
22 before your testimony that you recalled that this was actually around
23 Easter 1992 and not Christmas. Is it correct that it was Easter 1992
24 that this occurred?
25 A. I don't know exactly whether it was Christmas or Easter. I think
1 it was Easter. I don't know for sure but I know it was holiday time.
2 Q. Back in August 1991 or the summer of 1991, you say that you knew
3 that there was an attack coming against Dalj. How long before the attack
4 occurred did you know that that was going to occur?
5 A. That day, in the evening, around 6.00, 7.00 p.m. already, the
6 whole village already knew from those people who travelled constantly to
7 Borovo and Dalj. We heard it from them. The story spread around the
8 village and people talked, of course, and everybody soon knew there would
9 be an attack at such and such a time.
10 Q. So it was just the day before that you learned of this impending
11 attack on Dalj; is that correct?
12 A. That same day around this -- around 6.00, 7.00 p.m., and the
13 attack came the next day. Yes. So it was the day before.
14 Q. Amongst Serbs, what political parties were active in the summer
15 of 1991?
16 A. The SDS and the HDZ.
17 Q. And the HDZ would be a party to which Croats primarily were
18 members, correct?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Was there any party other than the SDS on the Serbian side?
21 A. No.
22 Q. And what percentage of - and I know you can't be exact, and
23 that's fine - but what percentage of the adult population, as best you
24 can surmise based on what you knew at the time, were members of the SDS?
25 Was it a high percentage or a low percentage?
1 A. I think at that time the SDS had a higher percentage.
2 Q. Would you say that you knew very many people who were members of
3 the SDS?
4 A. I don't understand what you mean by did I know them. Almost all
5 the Serbs were affiliated with the SDS. You didn't have to know somebody
6 personally. If you knew he was a Serb, he was in the SDS or a follower
7 of the SDS.
8 Q. Earlier today at page 50 of your testimony you referred to some
9 individuals from the SDS in Bogojevo coming to Dalj on the second day
10 after the attack. Do you remember saying that?
11 A. No. From Bogojevo, no.
12 Q. Well, let me read out what you said and perhaps a correction is
13 in order.
14 A. All right.
15 Q. So the question that you were asked at page 50 was:
16 "Can you tell us when you heard that Stricevic was put in charge
17 of interrogations?
18 "A. Yes. Well, that was on the second day. When those people
19 from the SDS came from Bogojevo, they immediately set upon deciding who
20 is going to be whom in the village."
21 Was that answer -- was that what you said, or was perhaps your
22 answer inaccurately recorded?
23 A. Not from Bogojevo, from Borovo. From Borovo. Those people came
24 and the important positions were immediately filled. Nobody from
25 Bogojevo had anything to do with it.
1 Q. And when you say "those people," does that include
2 Pavle Milovanovic?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Now you mentioned during your testimony at page 46 a certain
5 Djordje Calosevic who becomes, according to you, the president of the
6 Dalj municipality. Do you remember that, referring to him as the
7 president of the Dalj municipality?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Do you remember that he assumed that position after the creation
10 of the RSK?
11 A. He was immediately appointed to the top position in the
12 municipality, president of the municipality. The other one was the
13 commander of the village. And these people elected each other, those
14 people who had come from Borovo as refugees who did not dare stay in
16 Q. And by "immediately," you mean immediately after the
17 1st of August when Dalj was taken over by the JNA and the TO; is that
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Are you sure that there was a municipality in existence at that
21 time in August, September, October?
22 A. I think it immediately became a municipality at that time.
23 Q. You also refer in your statement and in your testimony to a
24 Calosevic who had a nickname Fafrika. Do you remember that?
25 A. Yes.
1 Q. Am I right in saying that this Fafrika is different from the
2 Djordje Calosevic who later became president of the municipality?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Do you remember whether -- do you remember Fafrika's first name?
5 A. Zoran Calosevic, I believe.
6 Q. Earlier today you testified at page 50 that -- you were asked
7 what percentage of non-Serbs left Dalj at the time of its take-over by
8 the JNA and the TO. And you said that 90 per cent left.
9 Do you remember that?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And you said that they were taken away on a boat from Aljmas; is
12 that right?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Now, did these village leave Dalj after Dalj -- after control of
15 Dalj had been assumed by the JNA and the TO or did they leave in advance
16 of the control being seized by the JNA and the TO?
17 A. They left before. Let me explain. When the attack began, they
18 left - all of them - as a group. It was probably organised before that
19 they should leave as soon as the attack begins. From Aljmas to Osijek,
20 they got onto a trailer-truck or several trailer-trucks and went to
22 Q. And was the ZNG or the Croatian police involved in organising
23 this movement of Croatian civilians from Dalj to Aljmas?
24 A. That I don't know. Really.
25 Q. Do you know whether there was any co-ordination or agreement
1 between the JNA and anyone on the Croatian side in respect of this
2 organised evacuation?
3 A. I don't know that either.
4 Q. At page 2 of your statement you say, and I quote:
5 "When we had to go to work in the fields, we had to get a permit
6 from the TO Dalj. At that time, the TO was practically fully controlling
7 the life in the village."
8 Now can you tell us, please, in a little bit more detail in
9 concrete terms how you mean that the TO was fully controlling life in the
11 A. They were like the authorities. Everything you wanted to get
12 done, you had to report it to them first so that they should know where
13 we are, what we are doing, and so on.
14 Q. How long did that situation last that the TO was fully
15 controlling the life in the village?
16 A. They were always in control, except that later the JNA took over
17 control of the entire area. But they remained in their role as the main
18 authority along with the JNA.
19 Q. Well, did you get a sense that sometime in 1992 there was a
20 greater civilian presence in Dalj?
21 A. No, not particularly.
22 Q. Was the TO controlling the police in Dalj from August 1991
23 through to the end of the year?
24 A. Yes. They were in charge of everything.
25 Q. Now you say in your statement at paragraph 10, which is on
1 page 3 --
2 MR. GOSNELL: And this is my informal paragraph numbering, I
3 don't think anyone else has it.
4 Q. -- that you learned that Zeljko Cizmic was appointed as the
5 Dalj milicija commander. How did you come to learn that?
6 A. Everything that went on immediately became common knowledge. You
7 could hear Tom was appointed, this Dick was appointed, that Harry was
8 appointed the other thing. It's a small village. People talk.
9 Q. Okay. Is it safe to say that that's also how you knew that these
10 other individuals listed on page 3 as members of the police, the Trbic
11 brothers, Sinisa Glodic, Gojsovic, you learned this through word of mouth
12 that they were members of the police?
13 A. Yes, the same.
14 Q. Now just looking at page 3 of your statement, you list these
15 members of the police, the Dalj police, and then you say:
16 "Later on I learned that Milorad Stricevic was put in charge of
17 the interrogations of non-Serb villagers who remained in Dalj and the
18 surrounding villages."
19 And then you list Milinkovic, Gojsovic, the brothers Trbic,
20 Sinisa Glodic, as people who assisted Milorad Stricevic with his work.
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. So as far as you knew, is it fair to say that the police was
23 co-ordinating with Stricevic?
24 A. I believe that was so.
25 Q. Do you know whether Cizmic was also helping Mr. Stricevic?
1 A. I think so.
2 Q. And was he also participating in these interrogations of non-Serb
4 A. That I couldn't say. I don't know.
5 Q. Well, how do you know that these particular individuals listed in
6 your statement, how do you know that they were assisting Stricevic with
7 these interrogations?
8 A. They had vehicles. They went around and brought people into
9 custody. You could see them driving around the village. They had some
10 sort of power compared to ordinary citizens in villages.
11 Q. Do you know where these interrogations were taking place?
12 A. In the centre of Dalj at the Dom. You know, I can't remember
13 now. What is it? The hall of culture. It's a large building and that's
14 where they were stationed, where he had his offices.
15 Q. Is that where the TO headquarters was located?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Is that also where Cizmic was based?
18 A. Cizmic was at the police station because Dalj has a police
20 Q. How far from the police station was the Dom Kulture?
21 A. About 500 metres.
22 Q. Did you ever learn that there was a detention facility of any
23 sort in the Zadruga building near the Orthodox church?
24 A. I heard there was something there, but who was held inside, I
25 don't know.
1 Q. When did you hear that?
2 A. As the days went by after the attack, people who had some sort of
3 power, they were looking for office space, and that's how we learned --
4 we learned who was where.
5 Q. Well, I'm not sure that I understand your answer. Did anyone
6 tell you that there was such a facility?
7 A. It's not that anyone specifically told me. All of this was
8 within the centre, about 100 metres from the Dom. It was in plain sight
9 and you could also hear and see that there are some people there, that
10 they are moving about. Later on we also learned that there was some sort
11 of prison there, too, that some people were held inside.
12 Q. Do you know who was running that facility or in control of that
14 A. I don't know that.
15 Q. Do you know whether Stricevic was interrogating individuals
17 A. As far as I know, he had his office at the Dom. It was not
18 actually a proper office, it was some sort of room, where he questioned
20 Q. I believe you said earlier today -- well, first of all, I'll ask
21 you to confirm: Do you know that these interrogations included beatings?
22 A. I heard that.
23 Q. All right. And did you hear that Stricevic beat people in his
24 office at the TO?
25 A. I told you, from what we heard from people who were closer to it
1 all, he was doing that. Yes.
2 Q. Well, I suppose my question is this: Would it have been easier
3 to conceal beatings at the Zadruga detention location than to conceal
4 them in the TO headquarters, based on what you know of where people lived
5 and how close people were to these various locations?
6 A. I don't know. I don't know whether ...
7 Q. Did it appear to you that Cizmic and Milovanovic were in a
8 relationship of subordinate to superior?
9 A. I don't know which one of them was superior to the other. They
10 collaborated. I know that much. But which of them had the higher
11 position, I don't know.
12 Q. Now you say at page 4 of your statement that you learned that the
13 Lovas farm, located by the road between Savulja and Dalj, was taken over
14 by the TO from Borovo Selo. Do you remember having said that the farm
15 was taken over by the TO from Borovo Selo?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Can you just explain for us why it was the Borovo Selo TO that
18 took over the farm rather than the Dalj TO?
19 A. Since it was them who liberated us, then they took over the
21 Q. Why didn't those who were running the Dalj TO take over the
22 Lovas farm?
23 A. I don't know these things.
24 Q. At page 3 of your statement, you describe -- well, actually, it's
25 at page 4 of your statement, you say that:
1 "One day Djordje Calosevic arrived with a truck and brought four
2 elderly Croats from Dalj prison ... to dig a grave."
3 And you spoke a little about that earlier today. Can you recall
4 how long before the fall of Vukovar that event occurred?
5 A. I don't understand what you're driving at. What do you mean
6 "before the fall"?
7 Q. Well, we've heard other evidence in the case that suggests that
8 Vukovar was -- fell, was defeated by the JNA and other forces on or
9 around the 19th of November, and I'm sure that you recall this event. Do
10 you remember Vukovar falling?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Okay. So my question is: In relation to this event where
13 Djordje Calosevic shows up with some elderly prisoners to bury a grave,
14 how long before the fall of Vukovar did that occur?
15 A. I don't know exactly but perhaps ten days before the fall of
16 Vukovar. While the fighting was still ongoing for Vukovar, it was in
17 that same period, perhaps ten days before.
18 Q. You say that you later learned that Arkan was responsible for
19 killing these individuals. Do you know whether at the time Arkan was
20 participating in this --
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Do you know whether at the time that he killed these individuals
23 he was participating in the attack on Vukovar? Did you hear that as well
24 or did you not hear that?
25 A. No, I didn't know that.
1 Q. Now you say here that Calosevic brought four elderly Croats from
2 Dalj prison. What place are you referring to when you say "Dalj prison"?
3 A. There, at the Dom, next to Stricevic. There was also a large
4 room next door like a detention facility where he interrogated people.
5 Q. And that's where those elderly prisoners came from?
6 A. I don't know where they came from. I believe they were local
7 people from surrounding villages. I'm not sure but I think they were
8 residents of the surrounding villages.
9 Q. You were asked how far Lovas farm is from Dalj. Approximately
10 how far is Lovas farm from Vukovar?
11 A. Some 6, 7 kilometres.
12 Q. And you say that you - this is at the top of page 5 of your
13 statement - that you "saw a man making a list or something like that. I
14 did not know him and I also cannot describe him, but I'm sure that he was
15 not from Dalj."
16 Casting your mind back to that event, can you at least tell us
17 whether he was wearing civilian clothing, or military clothing, or some
18 combination of the two?
19 A. Civilian clothing.
20 Q. Did you hear him say anything?
21 A. I didn't get off the excavator. When I arrived there I remained
22 in the excavator. They loaded everything. So I didn't get off the
23 excavator at all.
24 Q. Did it appear from you -- to you from your vantage point on the
25 excavator that he was issuing orders to the other individuals who were
2 A. No.
3 Q. So he was just standing off to one side observing; is that
5 A. He was making some sort of notes. And as he was writing all
6 these things down, these two loaded everything up and I did what I did.
7 Q. And you say here at the -- in the third paragraph of page 5 that:
8 "I also heard that these people were killed by the TO from
10 Can you recall who told you that they were killed by people from
11 the Savulja TO?
12 A. Well, when I arrived at the farm --
13 THE INTERPRETER: Could the witness please repeat the last
15 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Since I knew them, they approached
16 me and said that they were from Savulja, that they had waited for them
17 there and killed them. Because there is a hangar in front and they spent
18 the night there, and then on the following day, allegedly, they were
20 MR. GOSNELL:
21 Q. Witness, you said something at the very beginning of your answer
22 that was not captured by the interpreters. Could you try to say that
23 again, please?
24 A. There was a guard at the farm before I arrived there. As I knew
25 him - he is from Savulja - he showed me where there were holes, where I
1 was to take the bodies to, and he told me about this at the same time.
2 Q. And as far as you know, was the Savulja TO part of the
3 Borovo Selo TO or was it somehow autonomous?
4 A. I think they were together in Borovo Selo.
5 Q. You say in your statement at page 2 that tension was growing in
6 early 1991 and that people were losing their jobs and being replaced by
7 unqualified person of Croatian background, especially in the police
9 Do you remember that happening?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And what exactly was going on? Who was being brought in to take
12 these positions?
13 A. Well, mostly employees, workers from the reserve forces. So they
14 were from the reserve police forces and had to work. So they were
15 employees, Croats from work. Whoever wanted to, for example, could join
16 up. He'd be a policeman. He didn't have to work and would be paid.
17 Q. And did there come a time when it was unsafe for Serbs to go out
18 at night-time?
19 A. Well, yes.
20 Q. Can you explain why that was?
21 A. How should I explain it? For example, most people knew everyone
22 else, so they knew what a certain person was like, what sort of
23 tendencies he had, and such people would receive weapons and would roam
24 around the village with these weapons, threaten whoever they wanted to
25 threaten. So naturally the situation wasn't safe.
1 Q. I just have a few questions about -- further questions about the
2 situation after Dalj was taken over by the JNA and the TO. And --
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. -- the Prosecution has given us a note of what you said to them
5 in September, and what -- that note says that:
6 "When asked whether he was asked to join the TO, he answered that
7 he," that's you, sir, "he wasn't asked to join the TO. He answered only
8 later when the fighting had already ceased did it become mandatory for
9 him to join the TO."
10 Do you remember when it was that it became mandatory for you to
11 join the TO?
12 A. Well it became mandatory about two months later, when things had
13 quietened down, and then we had to join the JNA or the TO and the JNA had
14 to be together. We had to go. We were called up and we had to join up,
15 join the Territorial Defence but under the auspices of the JNA.
16 Q. So two months after the take-over of Dalj, which was on the
17 1st of August, would you agree with me that that's roughly around the end
18 of September or the beginning of October 1991?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Do you recall whether you ever heard that there was a decision of
21 the SFRY presidency that had anything to do with that?
22 A. No.
23 Q. And in concrete terms, what did you do after you were called up?
24 Were you carrying a weapon with you? Did you engage in any armed combat?
25 What did it mean that you were called up?
1 A. I personally wasn't called up because I worked where I worked.
2 There was a lot of work. So I didn't go anywhere for a year because I
3 had to work, and in a certain sense, it's almost as if I had been a
4 member of the army. How should I put it? It's as if I'd been working
5 there or as if I'd been in the TO, but there was nothing else for me to
6 do apart from work.
7 MR. GOSNELL: Thank you, Mr. President. No further questions.
8 JUDGE DELVOIE: Thank you.
9 Anything in redirect?
10 MR. DEMIRDJIAN: Just a few questions, Your Honours.
11 Re-examination by Mr. Demirdjian:
12 Q. Mr. Miladinovic, at page 68 today of the transcript you were
13 asked about the TO controlling the police force in Dalj. Do you remember
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Now you explained that the TO was in charge of everything in the
17 town. However, what relationship, if any, do you know -- what was the
18 relationship between the TO and the police?
19 A. I don't understand your question. What do you mean when you say
20 "what was the relationship"?
21 Q. Did you see the TO and the police interact?
22 A. Well, they probably interacted since they were responsible for
23 Dalj. They must have co-operated.
24 Q. And did you see this?
25 A. No, I didn't. I didn't get involved in that.
1 Q. You were later on asked about the Zadruga building, and you were
2 specifically asked whether it was easier to conceal beatings at the
3 Zadruga building as opposed to the TO headquarters. Do you remember
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Now, first of all, can you tell us where the Zadruga building is
7 located in Dalj?
8 A. Well, it's about a hundred metres from the police building in the
9 direction of the Danube, and about 200 metres from the hall, so it's all
10 very close.
11 Q. And how far was the TO headquarter from the police building?
12 A. Well, it's the same because the TO was in the hall and they were
13 all there in that hall, the TO and everyone else -- or, rather, the staff
14 and everyone else. So it was 100 metres or 200 metres to the police, and
15 then it was about a hundred metres from the police to the other location.
16 So it's all in the same area.
17 Q. Thank you. And I apologise, I have one more question to ask you
18 in relation to the previous topic when you were asked about the TO and
19 the police interacting, and you said that you didn't get involved in
20 that. Now, how did you come to your conclusion earlier when you were
21 asking -- when you were answering questions from the Defence in relation
22 to the TO and its control over the town? How did you come to that
24 A. Well, whenever something was needed, Pajo had to be asked about
25 the matter. He was the main person. And with regard to police issues,
1 he had to be addressed as well. So Pajo was the key figure and nothing
2 could be done without him. The police couldn't do anything without him
3 and we in particular, the local inhabitants, could not do anything
4 without contacting him.
5 Q. And when you mean that you couldn't do anything without
6 contacting him, what was required from him to do something?
7 MR. GOSNELL: Well, Mr. President, objection. At some point
8 questions do get a little too vague, and I think that one was extremely
10 MR. DEMIRDJIAN: Let me try to rephrase, Your Honour.
11 Q. You told us the local inhabitants couldn't do anything without
12 contacting him. What kind of things was Mr. Milovanovic contacted about?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. What kind of topics or issues would people go to with him?
15 A. Well, whenever something was needed. If you want to cross over,
16 you needed to get his authorisation. If you wanted to do something at
17 home, if you had to perform work outside the territory of the village,
18 you had to inform him so that they knew where you were. So it was
19 nothing of great consequence but you had to contact him so that he knew
20 where you were and so that he was aware of the fact that you were going
21 somewhere and so on.
22 Q. Very well. Now you told -- you answered earlier to my learned
23 friend's questions that you joined the TO in October; is that correct?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Between the attack on the 1st of August and the time you joined
1 the TO in October, how many times did you interact with Mr. Milovanovic?
2 A. I didn't have much contact with him. It was only when necessary.
3 For example, if someone had been killed and had to be buried, well, then
4 on such occasions, yes, I would have contact with him. Perhaps on two or
5 three occasions, because I worked in the company, we worked throughout
6 the day, so I didn't have time to move around. Work started at 6.00 or
7 7.00 in the morning, so I didn't have much contact with him. But if he
8 needed me, well, then, yes, he might contact me.
9 Q. Thank you for answering my questions, Mr. Miladinovic.
10 MR. DEMIRDJIAN: That's all I ask, Your Honours.
11 JUDGE DELVOIE: Thank you.
12 Questioned by the Court:
13 JUDGE DELVOIE: Mr. Miladinovic, I have just one question of you.
14 At page 50, line 4, of today's transcript, you answered a question about
15 the non-Serbs who left Dalj and went to Osijek from Aljmas with that
16 ship. My question is: Where did that ship come from? Who organised it
17 for those people to be able to board it and go to Osijek?
18 A. I don't know. It was only later when the Croats returned that we
19 heard that there was a ship waiting in Aljmas. And when the attack
20 started that morning, because the area where the Croats are in a majority
21 is a little separate, but that entire area withdrew in the direction of
22 Aljmas, and they then boarded the ship. But I don't know who organised
23 all of this.
24 JUDGE DELVOIE: Thank you.
25 Sir, we thank you for your coming to The Hague to assist the
1 Tribunal with your testimony. You are now released as a witness and the
2 usher will escort you out of the courtroom, and we wish you a safe
3 journey back home.
4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.
5 [The witness withdrew]
6 JUDGE DELVOIE: We have more or less ten minutes left. Is there
7 anything we can do for the moment? Any questions, requests, procedural
9 MR. DEMIRDJIAN: Your Honours, the next witness can start
10 tomorrow morning. There are no procedural matters from our side.
11 JUDGE DELVOIE: Nothing from the Defence?
12 MR. ZIVANOVIC: Nothing, Your Honours.
13 JUDGE DELVOIE: Court adjourned.
14 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.50 p.m.,
15 to be reconvened on Tuesday, the 20th day
16 of November, 2012, at 9.00 a.m.