Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 2296

1 Tuesday, 3 February 2004

2 [Open session]

3 --- Upon commencing at 9.00 a.m.

4 [The accused entered court]

5 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Registrar, could you call

6 the case number, please.

7 .

8 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, case number IT-01-47-T, the

9 Prosecutor versus Enver Hadzihasanovic and Amir Kubura.

10 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. Registrar.

11 And could we have the appearances, first of all for the

12 Prosecution.

13 MR. WITHOPF: Good morning, Your Honours. Good morning, Counsel.

14 For the Prosecution, Tecla Benjamin, Ekkehard Withopf, and the case

15 manager, Ronald Harris.

16 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. Withopf.

17 And the appearances for the Defence.

18 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Good morning, Mr. President.

19 Good morning, Your Honours. On behalf of General Enver Hadzihasanovic,

20 Edina Residovic, counsel; Stephane Bourgon, co-counsel; and Alexis

21 Demirdjian, our legal assistant. Thank you.

22 MR. IBRISIMOVIC: [Interpretation] Good morning, Your Honours. On

23 behalf of Mr. Kubura, Mr. Rodney Dixon, Fahrudin Ibrisimovic, and our

24 legal assistant, Mr. Mulalic.

25 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you. I'd like to greet

Page 2297

1 everyone present after this Monday holiday. We'll resume with the

2 proceedings now, and we will be examining a number of witnesses. Two

3 witnesses have been scheduled for today, one witness who might be granted

4 protective measures.

5 We will go into private session so that the Prosecution can

6 provide us with the details concerning their request.

7 Mr. Registrar, could we go into private session.

8 [Private session]

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6 [Open session]

7 MR. WITHOPF: Thank you very much, Mr. President. Again, I'm

8 grateful for having granted the protective measures as requested for this

9 witness.

10 Since I'm going to ask the witness a number of questions --

11 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Yes. Once again -- no, not

12 once again. I mean, the protection measures have been granted because

13 in certain cases they're called for. It's not once again. I mean, we

14 have granted these measures in view of the arguments put forward.

15 Perhaps there wasn't this problem in the English translation. Apparently

16 it's the French channel.

17 Well, you have the floor, sir.

18 MR. WITHOPF: Very well. There was obviously a problem with the

19 French translation.

20 Mr. President, Your Honours, since I'm going to ask the witness a

21 series of questions at the very beginning that -- the answers to which

22 could identify the witness, I respectfully ask to go back into private

23 session.

24 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] So you are asking for private

25 session then. Okay. A partial private session then.

Page 2310

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10 [Open session]

11 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we are in open session.

12 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] All right, then. This is

13 public session. We should have a break at quarter past 12.00. The best

14 thing would be to have a break straight away and we can continue in 25

15 minutes. We can come back at 2.30 [as interpreted] and then we will be

16 able to deal with the second witness then.

17 So thank you. The meeting stands adjourned and we will come back

18 here at 12.30.

19 --- Recess taken at 12.06 p.m.

20 --- On resuming at 12.31 p.m.

21 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] All right, then. We can

22 continue.

23 Before we call in the next witness, I have to inform the parties

24 of the fact that I have just received a letter from Mr. Solana, addressed

25 to me. And I am going to submit it here and I'm going to ask the

Page 2354

1 registrar to circulate a copy to all parties. It is dated the 28th of

2 January, 2004. It is addressed to me.

3 "Mr. President, following the decision of the court of first

4 instance on the 15th of December, 2003, rejecting the request with regard

5 to Idjenovic [phoen], I have taken note of the invitation which has been

6 extended to me to make it possible for the Defence lawyers to gain access

7 to certain documents in the archives of the EUMM and to determine which

8 ones of those documents should be communicated to them.

9 "I have also taken note of the request made to me by this Trial

10 Chamber to show to them the documents selected in this way by the Defence

11 lawyers in order to, if necessary, draft -- protect some of them, and

12 they would come from the European Union. As the court of first instance

13 decided in May 2003, the EU mission will continue to provide the Defence

14 lawyers with pertinent documents on a voluntary basis provided the

15 procedure referred to in Article 70 of the RPZ be applied to all of these

16 documents.

17 "As you know, the competence to decide whether this document of

18 the EUMM should be provided to the ICTY is up to the head of the mission

19 in charge of the daily operations of this mission. It is up to the head

20 of mission to check that such a communication is in line with the

21 regulations and procedures of the Tribunal, and it will not prejudice

22 either the interests of the European Union or the safety and security of

23 the staff. OCMM, EUMM.

24 "As a consequence, I have asked the head of mission, EUMM, to get

25 in touch with this Trial Chamber on the one hand and the Defence lawyers

Page 2355

1 on the other hand so that we can determine the practical modalities in

2 which these documents included in Annex B will be communicated following

3 the request of the Defence lawyers dated the 9th of December, 2003."

4 This letter is referred to the Chamber documents of the 15th of

5 December, 2003. So the Defence lawyers are being invited in this letter

6 to get in touch with the head of the European Union Monitoring Mission

7 for the purposes of the practical implementation of this consultation.

8 As to the paragraphs here, just a minor preliminary comment. It

9 is mentioned that it is up to the head of the mission to check that this

10 communication is in line with the regulations and procedures of the

11 Tribunal. Everybody will have understood that it is the Tribunal which

12 decides on what should be a document communicated or not, according to

13 the provisions of Article 70.

14 So now I would invite the Defence to get in touch as soon as

15 possible with the head of this mission in order for you to gain access to

16 the relevant documents. And in case you run into problems, do please let

17 us know.

18 So I would like to ask the registrar to attribute a number to

19 this, and could you please make copies of this letter for everyone.

20 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours --

21 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Yes, just a moment.

22 First of all, I need a number.

23 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, the exhibit number will be C1.

24 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] C1.

25 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]

Page 2356

1 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Let me just check this in the

2 transcript.

3 All right, then. So it's C1. Very well.

4 MR. BOURGON: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President. I would

5 just like to inform the Trial Chamber that we are already in touch with

6 the EU Monitoring Mission in Sarajevo. We have already discussed the

7 practical modalities according to which all the documents which had been

8 identified in Annex B of our request would be put together.

9 According to the preliminary calculations and estimate of the

10 person there, there would be about 1.000 documents; that is to say, about

11 3.000 pages to consult. We have already decided on a possible --

12 probable date on which we'll go to Sarajevo, either the 19th or the 20th

13 of February. And it would make it possible for three people on our side

14 to consult the documents. And we've received assurances that the

15 documents will be prepared as soon as possible after our visit and they

16 would be communicated to us.

17 So I would like to inform the Chamber that the communication

18 between the EU Monitoring Mission in Sarajevo following this letter and

19 our team has been assured.

20 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] No comments from the

21 Prosecution there?

22 MR. WITHOPF: Mr. President, Your Honours, as you know, the

23 Prosecution is not taking any position in these proceedings.

24 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you.

25 So now we can call in the next witness.

Page 2357

1 [The witness entered court]

2 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Good day, sir. I would just

3 like to check that you can hear what I'm saying in your own language.

4 Can you hear the translation?

5 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

6 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you, sir.

7 You were called to appear before the Court by the Prosecution

8 within the framework of a case before this Tribunal. Before you give

9 your oath, could you please give me your name, your first name and your

10 family name.

11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Mijo Markovic.

12 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] When were you born?

13 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The 16th of January, 1949.

14 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Where were you born? In what

15 town or village.

16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The village of Susanj in the

17 municipality of Zenica, BH.

18 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] What is your current domicile?

19 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Porec, in Croatia.

20 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Was your profession -- what is

21 your profession?

22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I was a metalworker, and I'm a

23 trader now.

24 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] What sort of trade? What

25 exactly do you do?

Page 2358

1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I have a shop, a grocery shop, and

2 I have flats that I rent to tourists.

3 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. In 1993, what was

4 your job or your profession?

5 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I worked at the ironworks, and I

6 was in charge of the warehouse and the tool department.

7 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. So could you please

8 read the oath that the registrar is showing to you. You can read it in

9 your own language.

10 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will

11 speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

12 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you very much. Please

13 sit down.


15 [Witness answered through interpreter]

16 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] As I've mentioned, you will

17 have to answer questions which will be put to you by the Prosecution,

18 sitting to your right; whereupon once they have finished, the Defence

19 lawyers, sitting to your left, will also ask you some questions. The

20 Judges, sitting in front of you, if they deem necessary, are also allowed

21 to ask you questions at any moment.

22 Since you have given us the oath that you would speak the truth

23 and nothing but the truth, you have to reply properly and precisely,

24 specifically, to the questions you're asked. You are not allowed to give

25 us false testimony, because if you do so you would be liable to

Page 2359

1 prosecution.

2 Since you said "I will speak the truth," it is, of course,

3 impossible for you to lie, as you must know.

4 Apart from that, if any questions are put to you and the answers

5 you give may -- if they prove to be incriminating -- our Rules of

6 Procedure specify that whatever you say cannot be used against you.

7 Except, of course, if you give us false testimony, which a priori

8 everybody rules out.

9 If a question is difficult for you, if you don't understand the

10 meaning, you can ask the person putting the question to you to put it to

11 you again. So before replying, you have time to think. And then please

12 do give an as complete reply as possible.

13 So now I'm going to give the floor to the Prosecution so that

14 they can ask you some questions. This hearing is going to last until

15 quarter to 2.00. Unfortunately, we won't have time to complete your

16 cross-examination here, so you might well have to come back tomorrow

17 morning. But I suppose you will have been told about this, unless, of

18 course, the Prosecution has hardly any questions to put to you. But at

19 this stage, of course I don't know how many questions they might have.

20 So I'm turning to the Prosecution. I'm giving you the floor so

21 that you can start cross-examining the witness.

22 MS. HENRY-BENJAMIN: Thank you, Mr. President and Your Honours.

23 Examined by Ms. Henry-Benjamin:

24 Q. Mr. Markovic, you indicated to the Trial Chamber that you were

25 born in the village of Susanj in the Zenica municipality. Could you tell

Page 2360

1 the Trial Chamber the ethnic background of Susanj first, please.

2 A. 100 per cent Croats and Catholics.

3 Q. And could you give us the ethnic background of Zenica, please.

4 A. All three nationalities are represented.

5 Q. Thank you. Could you state for the Trial Chamber your marital

6 status, please.

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Could you tell us if you're married, please.

9 A. Yes, I am married.

10 Q. And do you have a family?

11 A. Yes. I have three children.

12 Q. Mr. Markovic, could you tell us if you did compulsory military

13 service at any time and the duration, please.

14 A. Yes, with the JNA. I went in November 1969, and I finished my

15 military service in April 1971; 18 months in all.

16 Q. Thank you. Mr. Markovic, there came a time when you left the

17 village of Susanj. And could you tell us where you resided after that,

18 please.

19 A. In Zenica. Since 1971, I had a flat.

20 Q. Now, you were living in Zenica during the period 1992 to 1993,

21 and could you tell the Trial Chamber if from the end of 1992 to 1993, if

22 you observed anything unusual in the Zenica area.

23 A. Yes. I noticed that the war was coming. Muslim extremists were

24 acting in a provocative fashion. They called us Ustasha. And I think in

25 January 1993, in the village of Dusina, near Lasva, 14 Croats were

Page 2361

1 killed. Thereupon, on the 15th of April, 1993, an HVO commander and his

2 escorts were attacked in the village of Pobrijezje. It is 3 kilometres

3 away from Zenica. The escorts, four young men, were killed. And the HVO

4 commander, Totic, Zivko Totic, was taken prisoner.

5 Q. Mr. Markovic, you say to us that you had -- that extreme --

6 Muslim extremists came into the area. Could you describe for the Trial

7 Chamber how these individuals looked physically, please.

8 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, the witness did not

9 say that. He hasn't said it so far. Perhaps he's going to. But he

10 hasn't mentioned it so far. I see no basis for this question from the

11 Prosecution.

12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I was going to come to that

13 afterwards. So if I'm allowed to say that, I will.

14 In Zenica, well, we started seeing people coming from Asian

15 countries. I can tell by the colour of their skin, by the way they

16 dressed, by the way they spoke, and -- everything, the general

17 appearance. They came to the units of the 7th Muslim and the BH army.

18 For example, in the summer -- well, we've got the River Bosna flowing

19 through the town of Zenica. People used to swim there all the time. And

20 they prevented both women and men to go swimming, and no matter what

21 nationality women and men were. They were chasing them away, because

22 they were supposedly not allowed to swim in public places.


24 Q. Mr. Markovic, briefly, could you describe the way of life for you

25 in particular in Zenica during that period.

Page 2362

1 A. We were living in fear and expecting something bad to happen. I

2 have just said that around Zenica terrible things were beginning to

3 happen. Already on the 18th of April, 1993, all the surrounding villages

4 in the municipality of Zenica inhabited by Croats were attacked, and some

5 of the HVO members fled to Umnak and Vitez -- Ovnak, sorry, and Vitez.

6 And the others went into hiding. And on the 18th of April, they attacked

7 Zmajevac, Pobrijezje, Vile Bode [phoen], Cajdras, Stranjani.

8 Q. These Muslim extremists, as you described previously, do you know

9 if they were referred to by any particular name?

10 A. Mujahedin.

11 Q. Thank you. Now, during that time, are you aware or could you

12 assist this Trial Chamber if there were any other battalion operating in

13 the area.

14 A. The city of Zenica and the surrounding area was under the

15 3rd Corps, and the 7th Muslim was within the 3rd Corps.

16 Q. Now, could you assist the Trial Chamber in why you say that it

17 was the 7th Muslim. Could you help us.

18 A. The 7th Muslim Brigade had on their sleeves green insignia which

19 said "The 7th Muslim," plus something in Arabic language that I don't

20 understand. Often they also wore green bandannas. And on their lapels

21 or on their pockets they had kinds of ribbons. And it was widely known

22 that it was the members of the 7th Muslim. They were housed at the

23 school, Bilmiste school, which is not very far from my flat.

24 Q. Thank you, Mr. Markovic.

25 Could you assist the Trial Chamber in terms of figures,

Page 2363

1 approximately if you can, the amount of Muslim extremists that you would

2 say came into the area of Zenica during that time.

3 A. I don't know the exact number. A rough estimate would be up to

4 300.

5 Q. Thank you. Now, in the summer of 1993, where were you and what

6 transpired during that time of significance to you?

7 A. On the 5th of June, I went to my holiday home, which was in the

8 village of Susanj. It was a weekend. My wife and children had gone back

9 into town with a cousin of ours to prepare for school, and I stayed back

10 with my cousin, Bozo Markovic; my brother Bozo's wife; and two little

11 children. We were going to go to Zenica the day after because we had

12 things to do.

13 When we were travelling back to Zenica in the morning - because

14 all of us had flats in Zenica - and then at Han there was a checkpoint on

15 the road and there were anti-tank mines there. When we came along, they

16 put them away, and we entered the city and we parked the cars in front of

17 the shops and we were asked to leave our vehicles and go into the school.

18 We were detained there. We were locked up. And we found Jozo Markovic

19 there, a man who was born in 1931. And he was frightened. And I asked

20 him, "Jozo, what happened? Were you beaten up?" And he said, "Yes."

21 And then I said, "Let me see," and he lifted up his shirt and he was all

22 black and blue. And he said to me that he was beaten by Isak Arnaut from

23 the village of Arnauti, and it's a village near Zenica.

24 Q. Mr. Markovic, you said that you were stopped. Could you assist

25 the Trial Chamber with who stopped you and could you give us a

Page 2364

1 description of the individual or individuals.

2 A. It was the 7th Muslim. They were armed and they wore camouflage

3 uniforms. They simply told us to go into the school. I did not know

4 those people personally.

5 Q. Did you comply with the request? And could you tell us what

6 happened after.

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Now, you would have been in the school on -- what date would that

9 have been?

10 A. The 7th of June, 1993.

11 Q. And on the 7th of June, 1993, could you describe for this Trial

12 Chamber what happened that day.

13 A. Throughout the course of that day, we were imprisoned, from 8.00

14 in the morning until 9.00 in the evening. But Bozo's wife went away with

15 her children, was left -- was allowed to go with her children at 2.00.

16 They said that they were releasing her but that we would remain as

17 prisoners. But they released them later.

18 When I arrived in the flat in the morning on the 8th of June,

19 1993, you could hear shooting and shelling and everything was burning up

20 in the direction of Susanj --

21 Q. Mr. Markovic, but before you get to the 8th of June when you

22 arrived at your flat, could you tell the Trial Chamber if you were

23 released and when you were released.

24 A. On the 7th, at 9.00 p.m.

25 Q. So you were released on the 7th at 9.00 p.m. and you went back to

Page 2365

1 your flat. Did you meet your family there? And if so, what did you do

2 with your family?

3 A. I met my family. I didn't do anything. But when I got up in the

4 morning, the attack had already started.

5 Q. That would have been the morning of the 8th of June, 1993. Could

6 you tell the Trial Chamber what transpired on that morning.

7 A. From the direction of Susanj and Ovnak, one could hear loud

8 explosions. Everything was burning. I phoned a relative of mine who

9 works as a nurse in the hospital in Zenica. I asked her whether she knew

10 whether there were any wounded or dead. After a certain period of time,

11 she phoned me and told me that Kazimir Markovic had been brought in. He

12 was born in 1933. He had been wounded by a burst of fire and he had been

13 wounded in the stomach. And I said I was greeting him. I asked what

14 else was happening. I was told that everything was burning up there and

15 that everyone would be killed and that Raif Rizvic from the village of

16 Bukova Glava had killed him. That's what I was told.

17 After several hours, Kazimir died in the hospital.

18 Q. Thank you, Mr. Markovic. During this time, did you keep your

19 family with you? Did your family remain with you in your home?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. On the 10th day of June, 1993, tell the Trial Chamber if you were

22 at home and if any requests were made to you and if you acceded to such

23 requests.

24 A. As we knew that there were a lot of dead up there, we engaged the

25 civil defence with Dr. Ilijas, whose last name I don't know -- in fact, I

Page 2366

1 don't know whether that's his first or last name. Bozo Markovic, myself,

2 and a lot of other people went up there to see what was happening.

3 Q. Tell the Trial Chamber what you referred to as "up there." Which

4 place are you talking about?

5 A. I'm referring to the village of Susanj, in my case. And others

6 from the civil defence went to Grahovcici, Ovnak, Cukle, and so on.

7 Q. And when you went to Susanj, could you describe for us the scene,

8 the atmosphere. What was going on in Susanj?

9 A. Some houses had burnt down in Susanj; others had been looted.

10 And Muslim soldiers had moved into two or three houses. In my summer

11 house, it said "The 7th Muslim," and Akmedzic from Busovaca was living in

12 that house. I don't know his first name. There weren't any corpses in

13 the village, but everything had been thrown out into the road,

14 televisions, everything. There were a lot of soldiers from the

15 3rd Corps. They would transport furniture. I know some of the people,

16 but I don't know their names. I asked one of them, "Why are you driving

17 this away?" And he said, "Apparently some woman who was there authorised

18 this." Later when I spoke to this woman, she said that she hadn't

19 authorised this.

20 Q. Mr. Markovic, during your stay in Zenica in the end of 1992/1993,

21 what was common to you in the streets of Zenica? What really happened in

22 the streets on a daily basis in Zenica?

23 A. In fact, it was normal to say that we Croats were Ustashas.

24 That's all you would hear, "Ustashas, Ustashas, Ustashas." That was the

25 only name that was used for us.

Page 2367

1 Q. And did any of the villagers leave the area?

2 A. Yes. Whoever was able to do so, whoever had money, they'd give

3 cars, flats, furniture only to go to either Croatian or Serbian

4 territory, as we called it at the time.

5 Q. And you are absolutely sure in telling this Trial Chamber that

6 the soldiers that you saw operating, looting, and terrorising the

7 Croatians, so to speak, were soldiers from which battalions?

8 A. Well, I can say for sure that they were soldiers from the

9 3rd Corps, the 7th Muslim. There were civilians that also looted, but

10 difference is that the civilians would transport the property in small

11 vehicles and the troops would do it in lorries and tractors. The

12 civilians used wheelbarrows.

13 Q. Thank you, Mr. Markovic.

14 MS. HENRY-BENJAMIN: Mr. President, Your Honours, this is the

15 examination-in-chief.

16 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you.

17 Would the Defence like to start with their cross-examination?

18 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President.

19 Cross-examined by Ms. Residovic:

20 Q. [Interpretation] Good day, Mr. Markovic.

21 A. Good day.

22 Q. My name is Edina Residovic. I represent General Hadzihasanovic.

23 I would be grateful if you could answer some of my questions.

24 Tell me, when did you leave Zenica?

25 A. On the 20th of August, 1994.

Page 2368

1 Q. So you left Zenica after the Washington Agreement had been

2 signed.

3 A. Yes. But I sent my children in July -- I sent my children away

4 in July 1993.

5 Q. Up until then, you worked in the Zenica ironworks all the time;

6 isn't that correct?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. From the beginning of the war until the time you left Zenica, you

9 had work obligations in the ironworks; is that right?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. During that period of time, you weren't mobilised into any of the

12 army formations present in Zenica then.

13 A. That's right. I wasn't in any of the formations.

14 Q. Given the importance of the ironworks and its production for the

15 needs of the army and for the needs of defence, you worked shifts; isn't

16 that correct?

17 A. No, I didn't.

18 Q. But others did, and they worked on Saturdays and Sundays too;

19 isn't that correct?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. For these reasons, you personally did not participate in any

22 combat operations; isn't that right?

23 A. No, I didn't.

24 Q. As a result, you have no personal knowledge as to which units

25 participated in certain combat operations.

Page 2369

1 A. What I've already said, well, I can confirm what I have already

2 said.

3 Q. You know nothing -- you personally know nothing about the places

4 in which BH army units were engaged and you don't know which units these

5 were. You have no personal knowledge about this.

6 A. Well, I don't know how this might be translated, but I know that

7 they were killed in Susanj. I know that I found Stanko Markovic, born in

8 1931; I found Ivo Buleta, born in 1951; and Ilija Markovic, born in

9 1967. Whereas the others, there was Ilija Vidosevic, born in 1912; Anto

10 Vidosevic, born in 1916; Niko Vidosevic, born in 1912; Markovic Vlado,

11 born in 1922; Anto Markovic, born in 1926.

12 Q. Thank you very much. I'm sure that you know the names of all

13 these people and that you knew them personally.

14 A. Yes, they're my neighbours.

15 Q. But any question is: Is it correct to say that you weren't

16 present when these people were killed, you weren't present at the site at

17 which they were killed? You identified their bodies at a later date.

18 Isn't that correct?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. You identified those bodies at the request of some people from

21 Zenica; namely, Dr. Ilijas; the lawyer Markovic. You identified them in

22 the morgue in Zenica. Isn't that correct?

23 A. Yes, it is.

24 MS. HENRY-BENJAMIN: Mr. President, if I may interrupt. Nowhere

25 in the examination-in-chief did the witness talk about seeing dead bodies

Page 2370

1 or identifying dead bodies of any sort.

2 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Defence counsel, which page are

3 you referring to exactly? Where were corpses allegedly seen?

4 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, I asked the

5 witness whether he participated in combat operations in Ovnak and Susanj.

6 The Prosecution has spoken about this subject. The witness himself, in

7 the continuation of his response to my answer, started saying that he had

8 seen some bodies. My additional question was whether it would be correct

9 to say that the witness saw those bodies in the morgue. The witness

10 confirmed that.

11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Can I add something? The three

12 body that is I have mentioned, I found them near Susanj. They were dead.

13 They hadn't even been taken to the morgue. But a month after they had

14 been killed, we took them to the Ovnak cemetery and buried them there. I

15 found those three bodies there --

16 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Witness. But since

17 the Prosecution interrupted me and the Trial Chamber has also asked me

18 something -- the witness has been speaking about an event and he's given

19 me the opportunity of having this clarified. He said that a month after

20 the event in June he came across three dead bodies. But previously he

21 said that he wasn't personally present when those people were killed.

22 I think that we have clarified this subject, and I don't want to

23 go back to the matter.

24 Thank you very much, Mr. Markovic.

25 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Can I add something? On the 10th

Page 2371

1 of June, I found those three bodies on the 10th of June. And the attack

2 against Susanj and Ovnak was on the 8th of June. The bodies were brought

3 one month later to the cemetery. We didn't take them to the morgue in

4 Zenica. I want to be clear.

5 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

6 Q. Thank you. You have clarified everything now. Thank you very

7 much.

8 But please, tell me: As you weren't a soldier, you did not

9 participate in the combat operations in the village of Dusina either;

10 isn't that correct?

11 A. Yes, that's correct.

12 Q. What you have told the Trial Chamber, these are things that you

13 found out subsequently from people who spoke to you about this; isn't

14 that correct?

15 A. No. I can tell you that Radio Sarajevo announced that there had

16 been an incident in Dusina, that there had been 14 dead.

17 Q. Thank you. Witness, I would like to ask you something else: You

18 said that on the 7th of June you were returning from your summer house;

19 isn't that correct?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. At the checkpoint at which you were stopped and directed towards

22 the school, you saw some troops.

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. That was the day which preceded the combat operations in that

25 area; isn't that correct?

Page 2372

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. On the 8th of June, you were at home and you heard explosions in

3 those areas; isn't that correct?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. A while ago you said that your flat is not far from the Bilmiste

6 school; is that correct?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. The areas of Ovnak, Susanj, and other areas in the direction of

9 Grahovcici aren't visible from Zenica and they're not visible from your

10 flat either, as Zenica is in a valley; isn't that correct?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. You received some information about what was happening there from

13 the nurse, Filomena Vidosevic, who at the time worked in the Zenica

14 hospital; isn't that correct?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Having been informed of the death of your relative, you never

17 reported that event to the police in Zenica; isn't that correct?

18 A. That's right.

19 Q. You went to Susanj as part of the civil defence; isn't that

20 correct?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. That was a few days after the end of the fighting; isn't that

23 correct?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. At that time, when you arrived up there, you saw that two houses

Page 2373

1 were on fire; isn't that right?

2 A. A number of houses.

3 Q. But in any event, what you saw was written down in the statement

4 that you gave after examining the area.

5 A. Well, I don't know whether anyone made a record.

6 Q. However, you didn't witness how these houses were set on fire;

7 isn't that correct?

8 A. Yes, it is.

9 Q. Thank you very much, Mr. Markovic. I have no further questions.

10 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you.

11 Defence for Mr. Kubura may take the floor.

12 MR. IBRISIMOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President.

13 Cross-examined by Mr. Ibrisimovic:

14 Q. [Interpretation] Mr. Markovic, in the course of the

15 examination-in-chief, you said that when you were returning from your

16 summer house you were stopped at the checkpoint held by BH army soldiers;

17 is that correct?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. That happened in the morning hours.

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. You were taken to the school, I think it was in the village of

22 Pojske.

23 A. Yes, right next to the checkpoint.

24 Q. You were detained in that school until the evening hours, until

25 about 9.00 in the evening.

Page 2374

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Afterwards, you were released.

3 A. While we were detained there, we did all we could to send

4 messages to Zenica, to the hodza, to troops, to inform them that we had

5 been detained, in the hope that someone would save us. And someone saved

6 us.

7 Q. I asked you whether you had been released in the evening at 9.00.

8 Is that correct?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. You returned to your flat in Zenica by car and you were stopped

11 at the checkpoint.

12 A. No. I returned in a friend's car. We were all in one car.

13 Q. So you were in your friend's car.

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. While you were in the school, you weren't maltreated or beaten at

16 all.

17 A. No.

18 Q. You said that upon returning to Zenica and when the conflict was

19 raging in Ovnak, you found out that your neighbour or acquaintance

20 Markovic Kazimir had been killed; is that correct?

21 A. He had been found when he was wounded. He was alive in Zenica.

22 And he spoke to Filomena at my request. And he said through her that

23 everything was burning, that everyone would be killed. He said that the

24 HVO had withdrawn and the civilians had remained. And shortly after

25 that, he died.

Page 2375

1 Q. You have also indicated a person who said that -- had killed

2 Kazimir Markovic, Raif Rizvic.

3 A. Yes. Kazimir said that Raif Rizvic had done that. He told

4 Filomena about this. This person was from the village of Bukova Glava.

5 Q. Do you know that Raif Rizvic -- the proceedings were instituted

6 against him in the cantonal court in Zenica for this murder.

7 A. I'm not aware of that fact.

8 Q. Are you aware of the fact that he was sentenced to nine years in

9 prison because of that event?

10 A. No, I'm not aware of the fact that he was convicted. I live in

11 Porec. It's far away from Zenica. We all moved out. Markovic too. No

12 one else remains.

13 Q. Thank you.

14 MR. IBRISIMOVIC: [Interpretation] We have no further questions,

15 Mr. President.

16 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you.

17 Is there any re-examination for the Prosecution?

18 MS. HENRY-BENJAMIN: There will be no further questions for this

19 witness, Mr. President.

20 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you.

21 Witness, contrary to our assessment, we have concluded your

22 testimony, so it's not necessary for you to return tomorrow. This will

23 make it possible for the Victims and Witnesses Unit to arrange your

24 return to your country. Thank you for having come to the Tribunal and

25 for having answered the questions put to you by both parties. We wish

Page 2376

1 you a good trip home.

2 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.

3 [The witness withdrew]

4 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] We have two witnesses scheduled

5 or tomorrow. One, if necessary, could be examined on Thursday. Perhaps

6 we could hear both witnesses tomorrow. In that case, we'd only have one

7 witness for Thursday. This all depends on how long the hearing will

8 last. As you know, on Friday there won't be a hearing, as the courtroom

9 will be maintained.

10 Are there any other comments that either of the parties would

11 like to make?

12 No questions from the Prosecution? No questions from the

13 Defence?

14 Very well. If that's the case, I will adjourn the hearing and I

15 will see everyone tomorrow. We will resume tomorrow at 9.00 in the

16 morning.

17 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.25 p.m.,

18 to be reconvened on Wednesday, the 4th day of

19 February, 2004, at 9.00 a.m.







Page 2377