1 Thursday, 19 February 2004
2 [Open session]
3 --- Upon commencing at 9.01 a.m.
4 [The accused entered court]
5 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Registrar, please call the
7 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, case number IT-01-47-T, the
8 Prosecutor versus Enver Hadzihasanovic and Amir Kubura.
9 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. Registrar.
10 Appearances for the Prosecution, please.
11 MR. STAMP: [Microphone not activated]
12 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone for the Prosecution.
13 MR. STAMP: I'm so sorry.
14 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please.
15 MR. STAMP: Thank you. Good morning, Mr. President, Your
16 Honours. For the Prosecution, it is Mr. Daryl Mundis, Ms. Kimberly
17 Fleming, case manager, and I, Chester Stamp. Thank you.
18 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you.
19 Appearances for the Defence.
20 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Good morning, Your Honours.
21 Edina Residovic, counsel; Stephane Bourgon, co-counsel; Muriel Cauvin,
22 legal assistant, for General Hadzihasanovic. Thank you.
23 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you. The other Defence
25 MR. IBRISIMOVIC: [Interpretation] Good morning, Your Honours.
1 Rodney Dixon, Fahrudin Ibrisimovic, and Mr. Mulalic, legal
3 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you. The Chamber greets
4 everybody who is present today in the courtroom: The Prosecution, the
5 Defence counsel, and the accused, as well as all the others present in
6 the courtroom.
7 I would like to inform all of you about the schedule next week.
8 There is a possibility, which has not been confirmed yet, that on
9 Tuesday afternoon we will not be able to sit because of another case
10 which is scheduled at the same time. So the sitting envisaged for
11 Tuesday afternoon would be moved to Wednesday morning. We would work
12 from 9.00 to 13.00 on Wednesday morning, and then we would continue
13 working from 14.15 until 19.00 hours. So we will have to reschedule,
14 that is, cancel the sitting on Tuesday afternoon in order to leave room
15 for another case that has to be completed. We will be able to tell you
16 more within the next couple of days. You know that we only have three
17 courtrooms and several cases ongoing in this Tribunal, so we are
18 overbooked. We have to juggle between the three courtrooms and time
19 slots. So this is going to be awkward only in the following respect: We
20 are not going to be sitting on Tuesday. We are going to be sitting all
21 day on Wednesday.
22 So if we have a witness who is not finished on Wednesday morning
23 or Wednesday afternoon, we will be able to extend the sitting on Thursday
25 Now we are going to go into private session, Mr. Registrar,
1 please -- closed session, Mr. Registrar, please.
2 [Closed session]
12 Pages 3068 to 3111 redacted, closed session
20 [Open session]
21 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we are back in open session.
22 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] We are in open session. It is
24 I am turning towards Mr. Stamp to see what has been scheduled for
25 the rest of the day. Do you have a new witness?
1 MR. STAMP: Yes, Mr. President. The new witness -- the next
2 witness is here and is to be taken by my colleague, Mr. Withopf, who is
3 on his way.
4 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] So we're waiting for both the
5 witness and the representative of the Prosecution.
6 MR. STAMP: Yes, Mr. President. He should be here just now.
7 I perhaps -- well, no, I have no comment.
8 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, can we please have
9 a five-minute break? This will allow me to fetch the things that I have
10 prepared for the next witness from the Defence counsel room.
11 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] So in order to allow the
12 Prosecutor to arrive and the Defence counsel to fetch their things, we
13 are going to make a five-minute break.
14 --- Break taken at 11.37 a.m.
15 --- On resuming at 11.41 a.m.
16 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] We are in open session, and the
17 Chamber now can see that we have new persons amongst us. We would like
18 to greet them.
19 We are going to continue this hearing by hearing the testimony of
20 a new witness. I will kindly ask the usher to bring the witness into the
22 [The witness entered court]
23 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Good morning, sir. First of
24 all, let me ask you whether you can hear my words in your language.
25 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.
1 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] You have been called to appear
2 as a witness by the Prosecution. In order to testify, you have to take
3 the solemn declaration. But before that, I'm going to ask you to give us
4 your full name.
5 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] My name is Zivko Totic. I was born
6 on 25 January 1958 in Zenica.
7 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] So you were born on 25th
8 January 1958. What is your profession at the moment?
9 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I am in the Federal Ministry of
10 Defence, the Deputy Assistant Minister for Defence, and the Chief of the
11 Department for Strategy and Planning in the army.
12 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well, then. So you are a
13 military official. Are you a military official or are you a civilian?
14 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I'm a civilian working for the
15 Ministry of Defence.
16 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well, then. In 1993, what
17 was your profession? What was your function at the time?
18 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I was the commander of the Jure
19 Francetic Brigade in Zenica.
20 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well, then. Have you ever
21 testified before any court, either in your country or before an
22 international tribunal?
23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes. I appeared in the Kordic case
24 here before this International Tribunal.
25 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well, then. Thank you.
1 Since you are going to testify here, you have to take the solemn
2 declaration. Can you please read the text that you have been given.
3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will
4 speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
5 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you. You know this
6 solemn declaration by heart. You may be seated.
7 WITNESS: ZIVKO TOTIC
8 [Witness answered through interpreter]
9 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] You are already used to
10 testifying because you have already testified before this Tribunal in a
11 different case. However, I'm going to give you some guidelines as to
12 what is going to happen. As you know, today you are a Prosecution
13 witness. You have to answer questions put to you by the representatives
14 of the Prosecution. The Prosecution are seated on your right.
15 After this - and we call it the examination-in-chief, which is
16 probably not going to be finished today - the Defence counsel, seated on
17 your left - there are six lawyers but only two are going to ask you
18 questions - they are going to lead their cross-examination. There are
19 three Judges, seated in front of you. They can also at any moment in the
20 interest of justice ask you questions which will allow them to clarify
21 things in order to arrive at the truth. And for that reason, the Judges
22 can also ask you questions at any given time.
23 Once a question is asked, take your time before giving your
24 answer. Try to answer concisely and precisely in order to allow the
25 Judges to understand what actually took place. Try to be precise. Try
1 to be concise and complete when you give your answers. If you do not
2 understand a question, then you may ask the person who put it to you, be
3 it the Prosecution, the Judge, or the Defence, to rephrase the question
4 and ask it again. If at any time you encounter any difficulties in
5 answering the questions, please inform us about that.
6 I have to tell you also that you have taken the declaration to
7 speak the truth, so you may not perjure yourself in giving testimony. If
8 you do perjure yourself, you will be liable for perjury. There are
9 penalties for perjury. It can be a fine or an imprisonment up to seven
11 We are in a mixed procedure which consists of the elements of the
12 common law and the Anglo-Saxon law, which means that if an answer to a
13 certain question may be incriminating for you, at that moment the things
14 that you tell us cannot be used against you. If you have any
15 difficulties answering any question, please inform us about that and we
16 will help you to resolve such a difficulty.
17 We are going to begin the examination-in-chief, and I'm giving
18 the floor to Mr. Withopf, who is going to lead the examination-in-chief.
19 MR. WITHOPF: Thank you very much, Mr. President.
20 By the way, good morning, Mr. President. Good morning, Your
21 Honours. Good morning, Counsel. We are today adjoined by our assistant,
22 Mr. Mathias Neuner.
23 Examined by Mr. Withopf:
24 Q. Good morning, Mr. Totic. Mr. Totic, you have already informed
25 the Trial Chamber that this is not the first time that you are testifying
1 before this Tribunal and you already informed the Chamber that you
2 testified in the Kordic case. Can you please also inform the Trial
3 Chamber whether in the Kordic case you appeared for the Prosecution or
4 for the Defence.
5 A. Your Honours, in the Kordic case, I was a Defence witness.
6 Q. And do you still recall, Mr. Totic, as when you testified in the
7 Kordic case?
8 A. I believe that this was in May 1999.
9 Q. And do you still have a recollection in respect to the subject
10 matters you testified about?
11 A. Yes, more or less.
12 Q. And can you please briefly inform the Trial Chamber what these
13 subject matters have been.
14 A. Your Honours, in the Kordic case, I testified about the political
15 and military situation in Zenica, as well as the system of command which
16 existed at the time in the HVO. What I was asked to do was to state
17 clearly whether Dario Kordic was my commander or not, and that is what I
18 said. I was the commander of the Jure Francetic Brigade, which was
19 established and operated in Central Bosnia, and it had its commander. At
20 that time, it was Colonel Tihomir Blaskic.
21 Q. Thank you very much, Mr. Totic.
22 Mr. Totic, you already informed the Trial Chamber about your
23 current position. Can you please briefly outline for the benefit of the
24 Trial Chamber your full military career from the beginning until today.
25 A. Your Honours, in 1974 I joined the land army services military
12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and
13 English transcripts.
1 high school in Sarajevo. After four years of education, in 1978 I
2 graduated in Karlovac, in the territory of the former Socialist Republic
3 of Croatia.
4 After that, I was posted to the 333rd Engineering Battalion of
5 the anti-aircraft defence command. This was in Pancevo in the 333rd
6 Battalion. I spent ten years there, up to the 14th July, 1978, when I was
7 transferred to the engineering battalion of the 1st Air Force corps,
8 which had its base in Sarajevo.
9 In 1990, I was send to the Karlovac engineering officer's school.
10 On the 4th of December, I graduated from this school. And due to the war
11 operations, the school had been transferred to Sabac, and this is where I
13 On the 4th of December, 1991, immediately upon graduation, I was
14 appointed the commander of the 2nd Engineering Company in the engineering
15 battalion of the 5th Air Force Corps. Our base was at the Zerava airport
16 near Bihac. I stayed in that position up until the 22nd of April, 1992.
17 Then I left the former JNA. I realised that I could no longer stay there
18 because it had turned into a mono-ethnically based army.
19 I returned to my native village, Stranjani, near Zenica. On the
20 10th of June, 1992, I was appointed deputy commander of the battalion in
21 the HVO. This company did not exist, as a matter of fact, and I decided
22 to establish an infantry battalion which would be based in the place
23 where I was born.
24 On the 29th of July, 1992, I was appointed the commander of the
25 Municipal Staff of the Croatian Defence Council in Zenica. On the 4th of
1 December, 1992, due to the transformation of the HVO, instead of the
2 Municipal Staff of Zenica, the brigade Jure Francetic was established,
3 and I was appointed it commander on the order of the-then president of
4 the Croatian Community of Herceg-Bosna, Mr. Mate Boban.
5 On the 26th of April, when I was kidnapped, I was appointed a
6 member of the Joint Supreme Command, which was established after the
7 negotiations between Alija Izetbegovic and Mate Boban in the presence of
8 the president of Croatia, Dr. Franjo Tudjman, in Zagreb. Colonel Miro
9 Andric, Colonel Filip Filipovic from the HVO, were the other members of
10 this joint command on behalf of the BH army. There were Colonel Vehbija
11 Karic, Colonel Stjepan Siber, other members of the BH army and meetings
12 were also attended by the accused, Mr. Enver Hadzihasanovic. I don't
13 know whether he was a member of this joint command or not, because I did
14 not see the order appointing him on behalf of the BH army.
15 I stayed in that duty up to 15 July 1992. And then I was
16 appointed the chief of engineering in the operational zone Central
17 Bosnia. After the Washington Agreement was signed, I was appointed on
18 the 26th of February, 1994, to become the head of the executive military
19 committee --
20 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, there may be a
21 mistake in the transcript. The witness was talking about his duty in the
22 joint command, and he stated the period of time to which he stayed there.
23 It says in the transcript that he stayed until 15 July 1992. The witness
24 didn't say 1992.
25 It would be good if the witness could repeat as to how long he
1 stayed in that position in order to avoid mistakes.
2 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I'm talking about the
3 year 1993.
4 MR. WITHOPF:
5 Q. Mr. Totic, please continue.
6 A. I'm talking about the Joint Supreme Command, which was
7 established in 1993, on the 26th of April, and was operational up to 15
8 July 1993.
9 On the 24th or 26th of February, 1994, I was appointed the head
10 of the military executive committee on behalf of the HVO. This was the
11 HVO delegation in the Military Executive Committee, which was Operational
12 in the Multinational Division West. The goal was to implement the
13 military segment of the Washington Agreement. And I stayed in that
14 position up to 15th of May, 1994.
15 In the course of 1994 and 1995, I would occasionally discharge
16 the duties of the commander of the tactical group in the final operations
17 in Northern Bosnia. In 1995, on the 20th of September, I was appointed
18 the commander of the town of Jajce. I stayed in that position up to the
19 1st of January, 1996. And then I was appointed the commander of the
20 Vitez-area outpost in Mrkonjic Grad.
21 From July 1996, I was a member of the delegation of the HVO for
22 the implementation of the programme "Prepare and Exercise" - that was the
23 programme - funded by the government of Bosnia and Herzegovina together
24 with the American company, MPRI.
25 On the 1st of October, 1997, I was appointed expert consultant
1 for the development of defence policies in the Federal Ministry of
2 Defence. I would also like to say that I joined the Federal Ministry of
3 Defence with the rank of brigadier.
4 On the 25th of March, 2001, I was appointed the deputy assistant
5 of minister for preparations and head of the Department for Strategy and
6 Planning, and this is the position I occupy to this very day.
7 Q. Thank you very much, Mr. Totic.
8 Whilst you were still within the JNA, did you receive training of
9 the laws of warfare and the Geneva Conventions?
10 A. Your Honours, the training in the JNA included, in addition to
11 general subjects and military subjects, international war law was also
12 included as a subject.
13 Q. And did each and every JNA officer have to have such training in
14 the rules of international warfare and the Geneva Conventions?
15 A. Your Honours, every officer and non-commissioned officer had to
16 receive such training in the course of his regular training.
17 Q. And can you please provide the Trial Chamber with some more
18 detail about the scope of such training.
19 A. Well, the former Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia was a
20 signatory of certain international conventions, and this is something
21 that we studied. We studied about international humanitarian law. There
22 was a rule book. And after our training, there was a mandatory textbook
23 that we had to use for our education. And also, the former JNA
24 participated with its contingent in the UN mission on Sinai. And
25 immediately before the war, in 1989 and 1990, the former of the -- I
1 think an officer from the JNA, from the former JNA was in charge of
2 forces in Zimbabwe. So this shows that all the officers of the former
3 JNA were familiar with these matters and were regularly trained in
4 international war law.
5 Q. Mr. Totic, what do you know about the position or the military
6 career of Enver Hadzihasanovic within the JNA?
7 A. I've heard about General Hadzihasanovic. I heard about him in
8 1991 or in 1990, when I was serving in Sarajevo. I know that he was the
9 commander of a motorised brigade. His headquarters were in Lukavica,
10 near Sarajevo. I think he was a lieutenant colonel, but I didn't know
11 him personally at the time.
12 Q. This brigade in Lukavica, did it have a certain reputation, a
13 good or a bad one?
14 A. Well, the motorised brigade in Lukavica was supposed to be one of
15 the most elite brigades in the Sarajevo military district.
16 Q. Mr. Totic, whilst you were the commander of the Jure Francetic
17 Brigade in Zenica, where did you have your headquarters?
18 A. The headquarters of the Jure Francetic HVO Brigade were in the
19 administration building of the Vatrostalna company in the Pobrijezje
20 village, near Zenica, about 4 kilometres away.
21 Q. Once you were assigned command of the Jure Francetic Brigade, did
22 you have the opportunity to monitor the establishment of the Muslim
23 forces in the area of Zenica?
24 A. Given that I was born there, I did monitor the formation of the
25 HVO, of which I was a part, and where I performed duties. And I was also
1 interested in the structure of the Territorial Defence and how this
2 structure was developing. And later, when various paramilitary
3 formations were formed in Zenica, including the 3rd Corps with General
4 Enver Hadzihasanovic at its head, I monitored this too.
5 Q. Can you please provide the Trial Chamber with some more detail on
6 what you have noticed in respect to the establishment of ABiH 3rd Corps
7 units within the area of Zenica.
8 A. In the territory of Zenica municipality, there was a brigade, an
9 HVO brigade - I'm talking about May 1992 - on the other side, in May the
10 first Territorial Defence brigade had been established, with Commander
11 Dzemal Najetovic at its head. He was a school friend of mine, from
12 primary school. He had finished the military technical academy in Zagreb
13 and he was a member of the security services of the former JNA.
14 In June, July, and August 1992, in addition to these two
15 brigades, there was also a HOS formation active in Zenica. Croatian
16 Armed Forces is what it stands for. And Mr. Munir Halima [phoen] was at
17 its head. There was also a military formation called the Green Berets
18 that was operative, a military formation called the Patriotic League, and
19 a military formation called the Green League. With the establishment of
20 the 3rd Corps and the establishment of the 314th Brigade of the BH army,
21 with Smail Begovic at its head, these three formations became part of the
22 314th BH army brigade, which was part of the BH army 3rd Corps.
23 The HOS forces, commanded by Mladen Holman, mostly consisted of
24 Muslims at the time. About 60 or 70 per cent of them were Muslims, and
25 there were Croats. Those formations, as well as the Green Legion
1 formation, were often accused of looting, et cetera. When something
2 happened, if HOS was included in this, the Croats were accused. I
3 couldn't put up with that, so I met Mr. Holman. I told him to take
4 sides. He agreed to become part of the Jure Francetic Brigade, and as of
5 the 5th of April a statement was officially signed, according to which
6 the HOS units were going to become part of the Jure Francetic Brigade.
7 There were a few other items, five to six other items, including
8 one that related to criminals and getting rid of them. I wanted nothing
9 to do with them. With regard to some of the crimes that they had
10 committed, I didn't want to have any responsibility for such crimes and I
11 didn't want to have anything to do with such people. One of the items
12 was that he should reject the rank of major general, which had been
13 assigned to him by the Croatian side.
14 Q. Mr. Totic, are you also aware of military formations which were
15 known under the acronym MOS, M-O-S?
16 A. Your Honours, at the time those who spread the greatest terror in
17 the town were members of the so-called MOS. Up until that time, nothing
18 was known about them. Almost nothing was known about them. In
19 discussions with the then-commander of the Territorial Defence, the staff
20 of the Territorial Defence, Mr. Jasmin Saric, when I told him that
21 provocations should stop, that the shooting in the town should stop,
22 well, even women and men were stopped and people in uniforms, wearing
23 Territorial Defence insignia, did this. I was told that these were MOS
24 units doing this and that he knew nothing about them.
25 Around August 1992, a civilian came to the brigade command, and
1 he complained about having been expelled from his home. He said his
2 house was not far from the village of Bistricak. It was north-west of
3 Zenica by the road, where you have the turning for Zepce. I asked him
4 who had expelled him from his house. He said, "Foreigners, the
5 Mujahedin." That was the first time that I heard that they were active
6 in uniforms in the territory of the municipality, that so-called
7 Mujahedin were active there. I asked Darko Gelic to check this. After
8 that, when he returned, he said that he had been in the vicinity but he
9 wasn't able to get close because of a guard who seemed to be a foreigner.
10 There was a training centre at that location, and there were
11 foreign members who were on active duty there. That was the first time
12 that I found out through my people that in the territory of Zenica there
13 were foreigners in the so-called MOS units.
14 Q. Mr. Totic, how far is this village of Bistricak away from Zenica?
15 A. I think it's between 15 to 20 kilometres away.
16 Q. You were mentioning that at the time MOS units spread terror in
17 the town of -- in the town. Can you please detail to which time you are
18 referring to and to which town you are referring to.
19 A. I'm referring to August of 1992 and to the town of Zenica. They
20 would stop women. They'd ask them to cover themselves, and so on. These
21 were sporadic incidents, and the municipal leadership of Zenica was
22 publicly against this and fought against this. But they tried to
23 undermine MOS. Apparently they weren't under their control. They blamed
24 MOS. They blamed it.
25 Q. Did you whilst being in command position of the Jure Francetic
1 Brigade, did you have an intelligence branch within your brigade?
2 A. Your Honours, in the structure of the brigade there was a
3 department for intelligence. There was such a department in each
4 brigade, and likewise in my brigade.
5 Q. In using this intelligence department, did you get any further
6 information on Mujahedin having camps in the area of Zenica or in any
7 other areas?
8 A. Yes, I did receive certain information, according to which the
9 so-called Muslim forces had been established in the territory of Zenica
10 municipality. They had their headquarters in the music school in the
11 territory of Kakanj. At the time, they insisted on having strong forces
12 in the area of the village of Arnauti and in the area of the Zeljezno
13 Polje village, halfway between Zenica and Zepce, and also in the village
14 of Mehurici, in the territory of Travnik municipality.
15 Q. You were just mentioning a music school having been headquarters
16 of the so-called Muslim forces. Where is this music school situated you
17 are referring to?
18 A. The music school is situated in the centre of Zenica, to the
19 right of the Croatian home and to the left there is a cinema. It's in
20 the very centre of the town of Zenica.
21 Q. The Mujahedin you are referring to, were these people armed?
22 A. Your Honours, the Mujahedin were in uniforms and they were armed.
23 I don't know how they arrived in Bosnia and Herzegovina. I can't explain
24 that, because I don't know the channels used. But they mostly came from
25 the Republic of Croatia via Herzegovina in vehicles, with weapons, et
1 cetera, and it was all under the pretence of being involved in
2 humanitarian work. When they arrived in Bosnia and Herzegovina, they
3 would put uniforms on and establish certain military formations.
4 Q. What do you know, Mr. Totic, about the countries of origin of
5 such Mujahedin?
6 A. Your Honours, as far as I know, on the basis of the information I
7 had at the time, many of them came from Northern Africa countries, Tunis,
8 Morocco, Algeria, Egypt; and then from the Near East, from Syria, Saudi
9 Arabia, Jordan. And some of them allegedly came from the battlefield in
11 Q. In late 1992 and early 1993, Mr. Totic, were such armed Mujahedin
12 in uniforms also seen in Zenica?
13 A. Yes. Towards the end of 1992 and in 1993, they were seen in the
14 town and they were armed. And you could see both individuals and groups
15 of them. There was even an incident in the village of Cajdras area.
16 Fire was opened. At the time, they didn't drive around with Territorial
17 Defence number plates and the 3rd Corps had already been formed.
18 At HVO military police checkpoints, shooting broke out. They
19 didn't want to stop. And in that exchange of fire, a member in uniform
20 died. He had TO -- Territorial Defence insignia on him. After that,
21 when the organs arrived to carry out an on-site investigation on behalf
22 of the BH army, Dzemal Merdan was responsible for the investigation and
23 Mr. Dobrica Jonjic was responsible for the HVO when carrying out the
24 investigation. When they determined that a foreigner had died, according
25 to the statement Mr. Jonjic gave me, when he asked Mr. Dzemo Merdan
1 whether this was a member of theirs, he said that he wasn't one of their
2 members. And that vehicle was some sort of vehicle used for logistical
3 support in the Territorial Defence unit.
4 Q. Mr. Totic, did there come a time when you were aware -- when you
5 became aware of a military unit called the 7th Muslim Brigade?
6 A. Very little was known about the existence of the 7th Muslim
7 Brigade in 1992. I found out about the existence of the 7th Muslim
8 Brigade around 1993, at the same time that the 3rd Corps was formed. I
9 think that was in 1993, and I think that it was established out of those
10 military formations which formed the nucleus of the MOS.
11 Q. Just for clarification, Mr. Totic, did the MOS form the nucleus
12 of the 7th Muslim Brigade?
13 A. I think that the corps of the 7th Muslim Brigade was formed by
14 units that had been formed by the Muslim Armed Forces in the villages
15 that I have already mentioned, Kakanj, Arnauti, Zeljezno Polje, Mehurici,
16 et cetera.
17 Q. And to your knowledge, Mr. Totic, where were the headquarters of
18 the 7th Muslim Brigade?
19 A. I don't know much about the 7th Muslim Brigade, but I know that
20 the command of the 7th Muslim Brigade and the military police platoon was
21 located in the music school for a certain period of time, in the centre
22 of Zenica. People were taken in there after fighting between the BH army
23 and the HVO, and they were beaten, et cetera.
24 Q. Mr. Totic, do you know the military insignia members of the
25 7th Muslim Brigade used?
1 A. The insignia of the 7th Muslim Brigade, well, you had a crescent
2 at the bottom, an Arabic inscription, and it would say "BH army forces."
3 This was all one symbol.
4 Q. Mr. Totic, I'm now going to show you a photo board with a number
5 of military insignia.
6 MR. WITHOPF: Your Honours, this is Prosecution Exhibit P4. And
7 I will use the Sanction technology.
8 Q. Mr. Totic, in front of you you see a photo board with a number of
9 military insignia. Can you please identify the one or the ones, if any,
10 were used by the 7th Muslim Brigade in early 1993.
11 A. At the beginning of 1993, I think the 7th Muslim Brigade wore
12 this patch. But not from the units, the battalions and companies --
13 Q. Mr. Totic, can you please identify the badge you are referring to
14 by the number, please.
15 A. Your Honours, the patch of the 7th Muslim Brigade is under
16 number 9. And within the 7th Muslim Brigade there were battalions and
17 certain companies which were independent and they also wore patches under
18 number 1, number 19, number 15, number 22, number 17, and number 24.
19 Q. Thank you very much, Mr. Totic. Does this mean that the members
20 of the 7th Muslim Brigade used such a variety of different insignia?
21 A. Yes.
22 MR. WITHOPF: Mr. President, Your Honours, I understand it's the
23 time for a break.
24 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Yes. We're going to take a
25 break. It is 12.30. And we shall resume at five to 1.00.
1 --- Recess taken at 12.31 p.m.
2 --- On resuming at 12.57 p.m.
3 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] We resume, and I give the floor
4 to Mr. Withopf.
5 MR. WITHOPF: Thank you very much, Mr. President.
6 Q. Mr. Totic, the military insignia you just identified, to your
7 knowledge, were they used by the 7th Muslim Brigade in the first half of
9 A. Your Honours, according to my information, the insignia that I
10 identified were used by some segments of the 7th Muslim Brigade.
11 Q. During the time frame I just mentioned?
12 A. [No audible response]
13 MR. WITHOPF: May I please ask the usher to remove the ELMO,
14 since I can't see the witness.
15 Thank you very much.
16 Q. Mr. Totic, you earlier on today mentioned an individual with the
17 name Dzemal Merdan. Can you please inform the Trial Chamber who is
18 Dzemal Merdan and what has been his position within 1993.
19 A. Your Honours, Dzemal Merdan was a member of the former JNA, of
20 the navy, and his rank was equivalent to the rank of a lieutenant
21 colonel. I believe that he served in Ploce and in Split. He was born in
22 Busovaca, in Central Bosnia.
23 In 1992, he was appointed the commander of the district staff of
24 Territorial Defence, based in Zenica. He remained in that position up to
25 the establishment of the 3rd Corps of the BiH army. Then he was
1 appointed a deputy commander of the 3rd Corps. He participated in almost
2 all negotiations in the course of 1992 and 1993. If there were any
3 tensions between the HVO and the BH army or any incidents, he was there.
4 In 1993, he was a member of the joint command for Central Bosnia,
5 based in Travnik, together with the chief of the staff of the operational
6 zone Central Bosnia, Mr. Franjo Nakic and with Mr. Zvonko Vukovic.
7 I got the know him somewhat better in 1994, in February of that
8 year, in Uskoplje and in Gornji Vakuf, when we were both members of the
9 military executive committee for the implementation of the military part
10 of the Washington Agreement. What I noticed at that time, when we were
11 visiting various checkpoints, was that he enjoyed a great deal of
12 authority amongst troops.
13 Q. You just mentioned, Mr. Totic, that Mr. Merdan became the deputy
14 commander of the ABiH 3rd Corps. Do you have a recollection as to when
15 Dzemal Merdan became the deputy commander of the ABiH 3rd Corps?
16 A. Your Honours, I don't know exactly when he was appointed, but I
17 believe that from the very establishment of the 3rd Corps he was deputy
18 commander. That is, when the district staff was disbanded he became
19 deputy commander.
20 Q. And to your knowledge, Mr. Totic, has he been the deputy
21 commander of the ABiH 3rd Corps throughout 1993?
22 A. According to my information, Your Honours, he was in that
23 position throughout 1993 and even for the most part of 1994.
24 Q. Mr. Dzemal Merdan, the deputy commander of the ABiH 3rd Corps,
25 did he at any time make in a conversation with you any statement or
1 statements in relation to the Mujahedin?
2 A. Your Honours, while we worked on the military executive committee
3 in Uskoplje and Gornji Vakuf between the months of February and May, we
4 had a lot of time to exchange information. I still remember his words
5 when he told me that there were no better fighters than the Mujahedin.
6 And when I asked him to explain why, he said during the blockade of
7 Sarajevo in the Cekrcici village sector, when he issued orders to his
8 units and when he came to the point regulating the medical matters, a
9 Mujahedin stepped out of the line and he said, "We don't have a doctor."
10 He was saying that all of them were ready to die.
11 Q. Mr. Totic, do you have any knowledge, including intelligence --
12 intelligence knowledge you received during the time having been the
13 commander of the Jure Francetic Brigade in Zenica about the relationship
14 of Mr. Dzemal Merdan with the Mujahedin, if any?
15 A. Your Honours, I don't know whether there was a relationship
16 between Dzemal Merdan and the Mujahedin and what that relationship was.
17 However, rumours had it that he was one of the people who had a great
18 deal of authority over them.
19 Q. Moving on to a different subject matter, Mr. Totic. You were
20 mentioning earlier on the TO units in the area of Zenica. For the
21 benefit of the Trial Chamber, can you please explain for what the acronym
22 TO stands for.
23 A. Your Honours, "TO" means "Territorial Defence." It was one of
24 the military components of the former armed forces of the former
1 Q. And --
2 A. And the Territorial Defence components existed in every republic
3 of the former Yugoslavia.
4 Q. And again, for the benefit of the Trial Chamber, can you please
5 very briefly, Mr. Totic, describe but very briefly, please, the concept
6 of the Territorial Defence in the former Yugoslavia.
7 A. Your Honours, the Territorial Defence staff existed at the level
8 of the Socialist Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina. There were also
9 district staffs of Territorial Defence, and under them there were
10 municipal Territorial Defence staffs. In Zenica, there was a district
11 Territorial Defence staff which covered approximately 15 municipalities
12 of the then-district. And this was approximately the area of
13 responsibility which later on was given to the 3rd Corps of the BH army.
14 The head of the district staff of the Territorial Defence of Zenica in
15 May 1992 was Mr. Ramiz Suvalic. The head of the Municipal Staff of the
16 Zenica Territorial Defence was Mr. Jozo Jerkic. After negotiations with
17 the forces of the former JNA, they were removed and they were replaced by
18 Dzemal Merdan for the district staff and Branko Boncina for the municipal
19 staff. Branko Boncina was then replaced by Jasmin Saric.
20 In a nutshell, the municipal Territorial Defence staff within its
21 structure had, amongst other things, two anti-sabotage units, and within
22 the district staff certain spatial units were developed which ended with
23 a brigade. When the BH army was established, this organisation was
24 disbanded, the district and municipal TO staffs were abolished and the
25 army was established together with its corps.
1 Q. And can you please be a bit more concrete, Mr. Totic, as to when
2 the TO in the Zenica area was disbanded and as to when it was they were
3 subordinated within the ABiH 3rd Corps.
4 A. The Zenica Territorial Defence, from the moment the 3rd Corps was
5 established, was subordinated to that corps. In the course of 1993,
6 Jasmin Saric and Dzemo Merdan still continued representing themselves as
7 heads of the local TO's; although, it was not clear who they were in
8 charge of. Whenever something happened, Jasmin Saric would tell me, "It
9 was the 3rd Corps and I have nothing whatsoever to do with the 3rd
11 Q. Let's move on, Mr. Totic, to a different subject. Are you aware,
12 Mr. Totic, of an incident that happened on the 26th of January, 1993, in
14 A. Your Honours, on the 26th of January, it was not an incident. An
15 attack was carried out by the 3rd Corps of the BH army from the direction
16 of Lasva village, via Dusina, towards the Busovaca-Kiseljak road. In
17 Dusina village, on that occasion, ten people were killed and massacred.
18 I heard about that incident on the 26th in the evening from the chief of
19 the staff of the operational zone Central Bosnia, Franjo Nakic. The
20 information was not complete. He only told me that there were
21 casualties. He didn't know how many. He told me to go to the command
22 and see whether I could find some more detail and how many dead and
23 wounded there were exactly.
24 When I arrived at the command, I got in touch with Saric. Saric
25 also didn't know what had happened. He didn't have information. But
12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and
13 English transcripts.
1 since people had been expelled from Lasva village on the following day --
2 and in the course of the next several days information was gathered and
3 we found out that ten Croats had been killed, and not all of them were
5 Negotiations were organised after that, and the late Zvonko Rajic
6 was murdered at the time. He was a commander of one HVO platoon which
7 was part of the Nikola Subic Zrinski Brigade. My task was to organise
8 and ask international monitors to help me to collect bodies in order for
9 them to be buried. In my contacts with Saric, commander of the
10 Municipal Staff at that time, he told me that he did not decide on that,
11 that it was up to the 3rd Corps to make a decision on that, and the only
12 thing he could do was to give me Mr. Hadzihasanovic's telephone number.
13 I called Mr. Hadzihasanovic, who was at the time commander of the
14 3rd Corps, and I asked him to hand over the bodies for burial. He
15 replied in a very coarse manner that we are not at the same level and we
16 couldn't talk, and as far as the exchange was concerned, that it would be
17 done through regular channels. This, I believe, was our first
18 conversation about that topic.
19 And this is how it ended.
20 In the course of the next following days, we were permitted to go
21 there to take over the bodies in the town hospital of Crkvice. I sent
22 the chief of medical corps, the late Dr. Zivko Gavulic, and my assistant
23 for political affairs, and I told them, since rumours had it there had
24 been a massacre, that they had to take photos of the site. The photos
25 were indeed taken. However, what I was told at the time was that all the
1 gold and jewellery had been taken from the bodies, that there was no gold
2 and jewellery on the bodies.
3 A burial was organised, and they were buried in the town cemetery
4 of Sarici in Soca [phoen]. At that time, there was nobody left in the
5 village. All the villagers had been expelled.
6 Q. Mr. Saric, the commander of the Municipal Staff you are referring
7 to, is his full name Jasmin Saric?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And the commander of the Municipal Staff, is it the Municipal
10 Staff in Zenica?
11 A. Yes, the Municipal Staff of the Zenica Territorial Defence.
12 Q. Mr. Totic, do you still have a recollection of what happened on
13 the 14th and the 15th of April, 1993?
14 A. Your Honours, on the 14th of April, I worked in the command as
15 usual, the command of my brigade. In the morning, I met with my
16 assistants. We talked about certain issues. I urged my assistants to
17 relocate mortars from their location.
18 On that day, I was invited to attend a celebration in the evening
19 on the occasion of the establishment of the Army of the Republic of
20 Bosnia and Herzegovina. The BiH army was established on the 15th of
21 April, and that was its anniversary. And on that evening, in the
22 national theatre of Zenica, the commander of the 3rd Corps, Enver
23 Hadzihasanovic, held a reception. I had an invitation to that event in
24 my capacity as the commander of the brigade, and I was also authorised to
25 represent Mr. Colonel Tihomir Blaskic, because he couldn't attend.
1 I went to the theatre with Vinko Baresic, the commander of the
2 Zenica Brigade of the HVO under formation, my assistant for political
3 activities, Mr. Anto Mrkonjic, and Father Stipan Radic, the parish priest
4 of the St. Ilija parish in Zenica.
5 When we arrived in the theatre, at the entrance to the right,
6 Mr. Enver Hadzihasanovic was standing in the company of international
7 monitors. We passed and we didn't want to disturb them in their
8 conversation, and we were met by one of the assistants in the 3rd Corps,
9 and he escorted us to the place where we would be sitting.
10 A speech was delivered by Kadric, the assistant for moral
11 guidance in the 3rd Corps. It was not an important speech; however, I
12 still remember some of the words, and the words were "the civil society
13 of Bosnia and Herzegovina." And when this all ended, together with my
14 assistant and with Vinko Baresic, I went to the command of the Jure
15 Francetic Brigade. There I found a journalist, Mrs. Anita Popovic, and I
16 ordered her to prepare a card for the 3rd Corps which I would then sign
17 when I came to work on the following day.
18 I had a headache. I went back home to my apartment, which was in
19 Travnicka Street in the vicinity of the Hasan Brkic Institute. That was
20 its name at the time. Maybe its name has been changed in the meantime.
21 I found my wife and my son at home together with a lady friend, Vineta
22 Ilic, who holds a bachelor's degree in chemistry. She's from Zenica.
23 The two were talking about going shopping on the following day to the
24 open market. And then this friend of ours told us whether I was aware of
25 the fact that on the following day there would be an attack by the BH
1 army on the HVO. I just looked at her and I responded, "That's what you
2 said on the 15th of March. We lived through that day. We will live
3 through tomorrow as well."
4 I would like to say that the situation in towns was tense. There
5 was something hanging in the air. This whole conflict was hanging in the
6 air and rumours were spreading and growing, day in, day out. And the
7 first day when the BH army was supposed to attack the HVO was the 15th of
8 March. I went to bed. I didn't spend too much time talking to them.
9 That was on the 15th in the evening.
10 On the following morning, on the 16th, I woke up around 6.00.
11 Q. Mr. Totic, may I interrupt you here for a second. Was it on the
12 14th or the 15th of March when you attended this celebration of the ABiH
14 A. The 14th of April. I'm talking about the 14th of April. There
15 were rumours according to which there would be an attack on the 15th of
16 April. And I said, "That's what you said about the 15th of March." So a
17 month earlier, according to the rumours circulating at the time, there
18 was supposed to be a BH attack. I'm talking about the 14th of April.
19 Q. And the next day, the 15th of April. What's your recollection
20 about the 15th of April, 1993?
21 A. On the 15th of April, 1993 I got up at 6.00. I had a coffee with
22 my wife. About half past 6.00 this friend came to go shopping with my
23 wife. Someone rang at the door. I got up. I saw that there seemed to
24 be a boy and a girl at the door of 11 and 13 years old. I asked what
25 they wanted. They left immediately. I knew that people were hungry in
1 Zenica at the time. I thought perhaps they had come to ask for some food
2 in the morning or for other things, but they didn't ask for anything.
3 They left immediately. And at about ten to 8.00, two escorts came to
4 fetch me. We got into a car in front of the flat and headed in the
5 direction of the command.
6 At about 400 metres from the flat, near the Rudarski Hotel, I
7 noticed my wife's brother, who was supposed to replace my driver
8 temporarily on that day. I said that they should collect him too, that
9 he should get into the car. My wife's brother, his name was Anto Zrnic.
10 We then headed in the direction of the command.
11 At about 650, 600 metres from that place one of the escorts,
12 Tihomir Ljubic, just told me, "Let's go into an attack." I was looking
13 at the cassette player. I looked up. I saw that a van was heading
14 directly for my car and it was -- it wasn't going in a straight line.
15 And as there was a hill, I told the driver to try and avoid the van so
16 that we could go in the direction of Zenica. At the time - and this all
17 happened very quickly - four soldiers jumped out of the car at front, two
18 went to the left, and there was intense shooting.
19 The first bullet hit my driver, the late Ivica Vidovic. I saw
20 him when he was shot. He fell over me. The escort, who was in charge of
21 my security, the late Tihomir Ljubic told the other escort, "Marko, jump
22 out." Marko Ljubic was the second escort. My wife's brother, Aco - his
23 nickname was Aco - was taking care of the commander. The driver was told
24 to open the window. My wife's brother practically threw himself over me.
25 My escort opened fire from the car. He opened fire later. And a number
1 of bursts of fire had been directed at the engine and at the tyres. The
2 vehicle wasn't functioning any more.
3 I opened the door and tried to get out. Everyone in the car was
4 wounded. I think the driver was hit in the forehead and he died on the
5 spot. The others were wounded.
6 I was sitting in the passenger seat to the right. I took out my
7 pistol. I leaned back. I was more or less still sitting in the seat. I
8 was holding my pistol. I then felt a severe blow to the head and to the
9 arm. I dropped the pistol. Two men in uniform dragged me out of the car
10 and threw me into the van. They tied my hands. They handcuffed me.
11 They had these leather bonds that tighten when they come into contact
12 with water and then they start digging into your skin, cutting into your
14 They put a black bag over my head and fastened it. They put me
15 in the van to the left. I had to lie down on my stomach. They covered
16 me with blankets and put two canisters on them and two soldiers sat over
17 me. I was wearing glasses at the time. They didn't even take them off.
18 They then drove in the direction of Zenica at a very great speed and
19 drive cried out, "Allah-U-Ekber." I then heard terrible bursts of fire
20 that lasted for far longer than the ones I heard during the attack. I
21 then thought that all those who had been with me in the car had been
23 About 1 kilometre and a half away from that spot and on the basis
24 of my knowledge of Zenica - I do know Zenica well - it was somewhere near
25 the School of Economy that something hit the vehicle. And I know that
1 the left lens of my glasses were broken. I felt a bad blow, a severe
2 blow to my head. I think I lost consciousness. I was trying to remain
3 conscious because I knew that if I lost consciousness I wouldn't fare
4 well. They reversed in the vehicle. They got out of that situation, and
5 started driving even faster. About 2 or 2 and a half kilometres further
6 away, they stopped.
7 They took me out of the vehicle. The bag was still over my head,
8 but the material wasn't thick enough so I could make out certain
9 silhouettes. I realised that I was on the bridge at the time and that
10 there was a wide river beneath me. I thought it was the River Bosna, in
11 relation to the centre of the town, which is near the Metalurg Hotel. I
12 didn't see the hotel, so perhaps it wasn't that bridge. It was the
13 bridge which was in the Crkvice area, at the Babine River. They then
14 threw me into another vehicle and took the motorway, and I think that we
15 headed in the direction of Sarajevo.
16 After about 15 minutes, they took a dirt road. I felt the cold,
17 and I realised that the vehicle wasn't going as fast. There was some
18 sort of a hill that we were going up.
19 After some period of time, someone said, "God damn the Ustasha.
20 He's bleeding." The vehicle stopped. They took me out of the vehicle,
21 took the bag off my head. They made me kneel down and they made me lean
22 my head on something to the left. Perhaps it was a stone or a log. I
23 can't remember. I thought they were going to cut my head off. We were
24 quite high up and there was snow. At the time, there was no snow in the
25 town and the surroundings. So while my head was on this stone or log, I
1 heard them shaking the vehicle. I thought they wanted to erase the
2 traces. I thought they would push the vehicle into -- over the precipice
3 and that they would cut my head off. This all took place in a few
5 Suddenly I felt them putting a blanket on the right side of my
6 head and I felt -- I smelt oil. Then I knew they weren't going to
7 eliminate me, that that in fact wasn't their purpose. They then put me
8 back into the vehicle and put the bag over my head again. And in about
9 five minutes' time we reached a house.
10 Q. Mr. Totic, may I please stop you here for a second.
11 MR. WITHOPF: Mr. President, Your Honours, I'm now going to show
12 the witness via the Sanction technology a video. It's video footage of
13 about five minutes. And later on I wish the witness to comment on the
14 video footage.
15 MR. BOURGON: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President. The
16 Defence would simply like to address the Trial Chamber at this stage. My
17 colleague would like to have a look at some video footage now. We
18 respectfully submit, Mr. President, that before we start viewing the
19 video we need certain additional information about the video footage in
20 question. We have received a copy of this video. Nevertheless, we need
21 certain additional information.
22 We would like to know what the contents of the video footage
23 suggested is, what are the visual contents, what are the audio-visual
24 contents, what is the source of the video - that is to say, who made it
25 and how was it obtained. And finally, before the Defence was provided
1 with this video footage, was it treated in any way? And finally, we
2 would like to discuss the relevance of the video footage and how the
3 Prosecution wants to proceed in order to tender this video footage into
5 Mr. President, we respectfully submit that this information is
6 necessary at this stage in order to allow the Defence to present its case
7 with regard to how admissible the video footage suggested is. So we
8 would like to have the information about the contents of the video
9 footage, the source of the video, any manipulations of the video, if that
10 is the case, and we would like to know what the relevance is of the
12 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Withopf, could you answer
13 the Defence's questions, especially the questions Defence raised with
14 regard to the pertinence of the video footage.
15 MR. WITHOPF: Mr. President, Your Honours, I certainly can answer
16 these questions.
17 There will be no audio on this video. In respect to the source,
18 the Prosecution received a videotape, and Defence is in possession of the
19 respective video footage since a number of months. The Prosecution
20 received a videotape in the course of its investigations against the
21 accused Hadzihasanovic and Kubura.
22 The relevance, Mr. President, you and Your Honours are
23 particularly interested in. The five minutes' video footage will show
24 the scene of the crime, the day of the kidnapping, and the killing -- the
25 kidnapping of Mr. Totic and the killing of his escort. I intend, after
1 having shown the video, to ask the witness a number of questions. Such
2 questions will be related to the manner on which this kidnapping and the
3 killing was done. The background is that the witness is anticipated to
4 provide some information in that respect that may relate - and it's the
5 Prosecution's view that it will relate - to the issue of subordination of
6 Mujahedin to the ABiH 3rd Corps.
7 The video footage will provide substantial and significant
8 information as to how this kidnapping was done, and it's in the view of
9 the Prosecution that it's quite impressive and the witness can only
10 comment on it to the extent -- to the high extent possible after he has
11 seen the video footage.
12 Again, Defence has copies of this material since a number of
13 months, and again there will not be any audio on this footage.
14 And the last issue - and Mr. Mundis is quite correctly
15 emphasising it - there was no manipulation at all. What Your Honours
16 will get to see is exactly what we got in the course of our investigation
17 against the two accused.
18 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Withopf, in your very
19 detailed answer there is an essential element that is lacking, namely the
20 source of the video. Did your investigators make this video? Does it
21 come from some other body? What is the source of this video? Since you
22 have told us that it has to do with the crime scene, the day on which the
23 witness was kidnapped, the day on which people were killed, when the
24 witness's escorts were killed. But what is the source of the video? Who
25 made it? Your investigators? Does it come from some other source? Can
1 you tell us where this video comes from?
2 MR. WITHOPF: Mr. President, Your Honours, can we please, for
3 me -- or to enable me to answer this question, into private session?
4 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. We'll go into
5 private session.
6 [Private session]
12 Pages 3148 to 3152 redacted, private session
2 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.57 p.m.,
3 to be reconvened on Friday, the 20th day of
4 February, 2004, at 9.00 a.m.