1 Tuesday, 8 May 2007
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 [The witness entered court]
5 --- Upon commencing at 9.10 a.m.
6 JUDGE ORIE: Good morning to everyone.
7 Madam Registrar, would you please call the case.
8 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning, Your Honours. This is case number
9 IT-04-84-T, the Prosecutor versus Ramush Haradinaj et al.
10 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Madam Registrar.
11 Mr. Re, the Chamber has decided that you get the 15 minutes you
12 said you'd still need.
13 Mr. Tetaj, I'd like to remind you that the solemn declaration you
14 gave yesterday at the beginning of your testimony still binds you. Please
15 keep that in mind.
16 Mr. Re, please continue.
17 MR. RE: Thank you, and good morning. To let the Trial Chamber
18 and Defence know where I'm going from the consolidated of the 17th of
19 April, these are the paragraphs which I will intend to lead -- elicit
20 evidence, it's paragraphs 71, 86, 87, 88, 90, 91, 98, 100, and 106. It
21 may be that at some point I may need to make an application under 92 ter
22 if I can't get to it. Of course, I'm in the Trial Chamber's hands in
23 relation to those particular paragraphs.
24 WITNESS: RRUSTEM TETAJ [Resumed]
25 [Witness answered through interpreter]
1 Examination by Mr. Re: [Continued]
2 Q. Good morning, Mr. Tetaj. I want to take you to where we left off
3 yesterday, and I'm going to ask you about a person called Astrit Berisha -
4 that's paragraph 91 of the statement - who was a former member of Toger's
5 unit. He was from Pozar. Now, did he tell you something about Toger's
6 activities and members of his unit?
7 A. Yes, I know him. I know him. We met in Tirana. He told me that
8 he was also from the war zone. He told me that only a very few soldiers
9 had remained with Toger. He told me that the unit had been dissembled.
10 This is what I remember.
11 Q. Now, did he tell you anything about Toger killing members of his
12 unit, who wanted to leave the unit?
13 A. He spoke to me, yes, but he wanted to justify his acts from the
14 war zone, and exactly I remember what I told you.
15 Q. Your statement says that he told you that Toger killed every
16 member of his unit that wanted to leave the unit in order to avoid them to
17 talk about things that they had witnessed and actions they had taken part
18 of. That's paragraph 91 of your consolidated statement of 17th of April
19 this year. Is that what he told you?
20 A. I already told you that we met in Tirana. We travelled in Tirana.
21 He told me things. He tried to justify his departure from the war zone,
22 the fact that he had left the area. This is what I remember.
23 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Tetaj, I think we should make a clear distinction
24 between what he told you and why he may have told you what he did tell
25 you. So the first question put to you by Mr. Re is whether, as it reads
1 in your statement, Astrit Berisha from the village of Pozar told you that
2 Toger killed every member of his unit that wanted to leave the unit in
3 order to avoid them to talk about things they had witnessed and actions
4 they had taken part in.
5 So the first question is whether he did tell you this. Whether
6 true or not is another matter; for what reasons he might have told you,
7 that's another matter. But, first of all, did he tell you what I just
8 read as part of your statement?
9 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.
10 JUDGE ORIE: Please proceed, Mr. Re.
11 MR. RE:
12 Q. And did he tell you that he had escaped from Toger's unit in
13 September 1998 because, according to him, Toger had already started
14 eliminating his own soldiers because they knew too much, and he had been
15 in Toger's unit from May 1998 until September 1998? And that's in your
16 statement at paragraph 91.
17 A. Yes, yes.
18 Q. Were you aware - and this is paragraph 71 of your statement - that
19 Toger and his unit were involved in military actions in Prilep, Voksa,
20 Carrabreg, and Loxha, when there were clashes between the KLA and the MUP,
21 or VJ, between June and July 1998, and Toger never deployed his entire for
22 an action unit but always selected three to five members of his unit?
23 A. Yes. He did not go with the whole unit; that's what he told me.
24 Q. I'm going to ask you about the FARK, in paragraph 98 of your
25 consolidated statement, in which you say that: "When FARK entered Kosovo
1 from Albania around 22nd of June, 1998, they were stopped in Jasic by
2 Ramush Haradinaj, Naim Maloku, and Sali Veseli for the following reasons:
3 They were afraid that Tahir Zemaj would take over the command, they were
4 afraid that the FARK would rule out the UCK/KLA, the FARK was known to be
5 the official army of the Government of Kosovo in exile presided by Bujar
6 Bukoshi and UCK he did not recognise the government as such."
7 That's in paragraph 98 of your statement.
8 A. I did not see what happened. This was told to me by Tahir Zemaj.
9 They told me that they went and they were stopped. There was a problem of
10 that nature you described. I was not presented there. This is everything
11 what I heard.
12 Q. Did Tahir Zemaj tell you - this is paragraph 100 of your
13 statement - that they were advised; that is, by Ramush Haradinaj and the
14 other two, not to enter Kosovo and Tahir ignored that. And they proceeded
15 anyway to Papracani, and you heard that there were some conflicts between
16 the UCK and FARK?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Did you hear of two cases of FARK soldiers who were arrested and
19 ill-treated by Ramush Haradinaj and his men in Gllogjan. That's paragraph
20 100 of your statement?
21 MR. EMMERSON: I am sorry that's a misquotation. Not two cases,
22 one case of two people.
23 MR. RE:
24 Q. One case of two FARK soldiers who were arrested and ill-treated by
25 Ramush Haradinaj and his men in Gllogjan; one of them called Idriz
1 Ukehaxhaj from Carrabreg.
2 A. I heard about this. I was told by Tahir Zemaj in Prapaqan. That
3 was an incident of that time. I did not know what happened further.
4 Q. Did Idriz Ukehaxhaj tell you that he was heavily beaten and that
5 they took 3.000 Deutschemarks from him, and were you told the second FARK
6 soldier was from the village of Krusevac and he was shot in the leg?
7 A. I heard all about this in the barracks of Prapaqan, and there were
8 other people who were present there, too.
9 Q. Paragraph 106 of your statement, as far as you know, did Ramush
10 Haradinaj convey his orders orally via messengers he sent or via work
11 meetings he held on a regular basis?
12 JUDGE HOEPFEL: Mr. Re, may I interrupt?
13 MR. RE: Of course.
14 JUDGE HOEPFEL: Are we in line with the original version? It
15 seems to me that a paragraph is missing, at least in the numbering. In
16 the English translation, paragraph 100 is following paragraph 98, and this
17 seems to be the translation of paragraph 99, but I'm not -- yes, it seems
18 to be because the 3.000 Deutschemarks are mentioned there. Without
19 knowing enough Albanian, I -- you may repair that.
20 MR. RE: The paragraph numbering is out. Paragraph --
21 JUDGE HOEPFEL: It's just the paragraph numbering?
22 MR. RE: I'm reading the number which appears on page 28 of the
24 JUDGE HOEPFEL: You're reading the English version paragraph
1 MR. RE: Yes, Your Honour.
2 JUDGE HOEPFEL: Not the Albanian version. It's a different
4 MR. RE: Yes.
5 JUDGE HOEPFEL: Okay. So there's no paragraph the 99 in the
6 English version. Is that correct?
7 MR. RE: There is but it is --
8 JUDGE HOEPFEL: Without text missing.
9 MR. RE: It's not sequential. It seems to have been cut and
10 pasted behind 106 -- sorry, 99 on page 28. I was going to 106 which is
11 directly above 99 on page 28.
12 JUDGE STOLE: Yeah, on page 26 there is no para 99, so there it
13 goes from 98 to 100.
14 JUDGE HOEPFEL: Yes.
15 JUDGE STOLE: But then on 108, there is also a new para 100 after,
16 99 which is also appears on 26.
17 MR. RE: The passage I'm taking the witness to is numbered 106,
18 and it's on page 28.
19 Q. And the question is: Did -- is it correct that as far as you know
20 Ramush Haradinaj conveyed his orders orally via messengers he sent or via
21 work meetings he held on a regular basis?
22 JUDGE ORIE: That's paragraph 106, but that's not the paragraph
23 106 of the Albanian version. Is that right?
24 MR. RE: That's right, but the witness doesn't have the Albanian
25 version with him.
1 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
2 MR. RE: So I'm reading the English to him.
3 JUDGE ORIE: Nevertheless, the Chamber would be pleased if we
4 receive both languages, that at least the numbers are corresponding.
5 Please proceed.
6 MR. RE:
7 Q. Mr. Tetaj.
8 A. Through working meetings time and again. At that meeting, he gave
9 us explanations and instructions.
10 Q. Did you leave the KLA in the Dukagjin area, together with Tahir
11 Zemaj on the 8th and -- two FARK soldiers on the 8th of September, 1998,
12 you leaving because you were suffering from a hernia and you needed proper
13 medical treatment in Albania, and you agreed with Tahir Zemaj to withdraw
14 from Kosovo to prevent civilian and military casualties since you were
15 almost completely surrounded by Serb forces? That's paragraph 105 of your
16 statement on page 28. And that you thought that this was a very
17 professional decision that Mr. Tahir Zemaj had made?
18 A. Yes, this is what happened.
19 Q. The last thing I want to read to you is a passage, paragraphs 86,
20 87, and 88 of your statement, in relation to the kidnappings or
21 disappearances of Serbs. I am just going to read it to you and ask you
22 whether what's there is correct.
23 Paragraph 86 says: "I do not know anything about the kidnappings
24 or disappearances of Serbs in the Dukagjin area, with the exception of the
25 cases of two Serbs called Milos, his last name is unknown, and Slobodan,
1 his last name is unknown, from the village of Dasinovac in late April or
2 the beginning of May 1998. I heard two different stories about the
3 circumstances in which they appeared.
4 The first that Deli Lekaj, the KLA commander in the village of
5 Ljumbarda accompanied by his soldiers Haxh Lekaj, Zimer Ukaj, Sami Lekaj,
6 and some others went to the village of Dasinovac. They were armed and
7 dressed in KLA uniforms. They entered the house of Slobodan to loot it.
8 They thought the house was empty since the Serbs were believed to have
9 left the village of Dasinovac."
10 Paragraph 87: "However, when they entered the house, they were
11 shot at and Deli Lekaj got wounded. They returned fire during which
12 allegedly the Serb called Slobodan got killed. Deli Lekaj was
13 subsequently taken to the village of Pozar where he was treated by the
14 local doctor, Syl Berisha. This is the story that Deli Lekaj told me
15 afterwards. That is one version."
16 " Paragraph 88: "The second version is that the above group
17 headed by Deli Lekaj went to the house of Slobodan. The other Serb called
18 Milos was at that very moment visiting his Albanian neighbour, whose name
19 is Qaush Mehemetaj, brother of Halil Mehemetaj. However, when he saw
20 Slobodan saw Deli Lekaj and his men coming to the house, he went to get
21 Milos and told him to join him at his house. They both went back to
22 Slobo's house. However, when Slobodan entered his house, he took his
23 rifle and shot Deli Lekaj. He got wounded. As a result of this, the
24 others apprehended Slobodan and took them to Gllogjan. They were taken to
25 Ramush and Toger.
1 "When Togeri heard that Slobodan had shot Deli Lekaj in the leg,
2 he pulled his pistol and shot Slobodan in the leg as well. Ramush
3 Haradinaj subsequently gave the order to take Milos and Slobodan back to
4 the main road in Prilep where they could 'join their' forces, meaning Serb
5 forces. The two were taken to Prilep where they were left behind;
6 however, the KLA in Prilep being aware that the MUP and VJ would retaliate
7 on them when they would notice that one Serb, Slobodan, was shot, took the
8 two Serbs back to Dasinovac.
9 "I heard people say that the bodies of Milos and Slobodan were
10 found two days later in front of their houses in Dasinovac. I do not know
11 who killed them. I heard people say that Lahi Brahimaj buried the two
12 corpses in the vicinity of their houses next to the road, Dasinovac,
13 Bardonic, Jablanica, because the local UCK had refused to do so."
14 That's from paragraph 88 of your statement. All I'm asking you is
15 this: Those are the two versions that are recorded in your statement.
16 Are those the two versions you heard and told the Prosecutor about? And I
17 emphasise heard, not saw.
18 A. This is all hearsay. This is what was said at that time.
19 Everything is hearsay. Prosecutor insisted that I should say what I had
20 heard, but I've not seen anything. The Serbs in Decane, even before
21 Gllogjan was attacked, during the first attacks in Decane, all the houses
22 were abandoned.
23 The Serbs had left the houses. Very rarely you could see any
24 family there. Probably in Rasic there was one were two. It was an old
25 couple there who I visited. But the different versions are versions which
1 I heard, not what I have seen.
2 Q. And just on the fact that you'd heard them, the version which
3 involved Ramush and Togeri, can you remember now who you heard that one
5 A. These were the variance which was said at the time, but I don't
6 know anything accurate. I don't remember who told me that.
7 MR. RE: Thank you for the extra time, Your Honour.
8 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Tetaj, you'll now be cross-examined by
9 Mr. Emmerson, as I take it from the fact that you are on your feet,
10 Mr. Emmerson.
11 Mr. Emmerson is Counsel for Mr. Haradinaj.
12 Mr. Emmerson.
13 MR. EMMERSON: Your Honours, just before I begin
14 cross-examination, two things, if I may. First of all, there are some
15 documentary bundles to be circulated; one for the witness and the
16 appropriate number for the Court and the interpreters and the Prosecution
17 and so forth. I wonder if that might be done now so we can save time in
18 the course of cross-examination.
19 The index indicates where the particular document has already been
20 marked for identification. There are two points just to alert Your
21 Honours to. On the 21st of June meeting, Your Honour yesterday mentioned
22 the fact that the provisional translation had failed to reflect across the
23 manuscript annotation of date and place. There is, in fact, an official
24 translation which is in the bundle as well, in the bundle that Your
25 Honours is going to be seeing, although it has a different ERN number, but
1 it's the same document with the passage missing that Your Honour referred
3 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. I take it that, Mr. Re, you will find a way of
4 getting the official translation as - what is it? - P140 in the system.
5 MR. EMMERSON: And then the other point to make is that I have put
6 into the bundle both versions of the 23rd of June minutes; that is to say,
7 the original rough version in original Albanian and translation and the
8 typed version. So they're both there.
9 JUDGE ORIE: That's P141 and P142.
10 MR. EMMERSON: Thank you. That's the first collection of matters.
11 The second, and it arises out of the examination this morning, and
12 it may just for the sake of caution be a precaution if the witness would
13 just very briefly remove his headphones.
14 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Tetaj, could you remove your headphones for a
17 MR. EMMERSON: Mr. Re asked certain questions about paragraph 100
18 of the consolidated witness statement and the incident about which the
19 witness had heard concerning Idriz Ukehaxhaj. It will certainly save me
20 some time in cross-examination if it can be established as common ground
21 that that is the incident about which we have already heard oral testimony
22 through the evidence of Witness 7/29, Witness 29. And it's clear,
23 transcript 3505, line 1 in the evidence of Witness 29, that that is the
24 same incident that's being described.
25 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Re, could you please check that and assist
1 Mr. Emmerson in saving time - of course, if you can.
2 MR. EMMERSON: We needn't --
3 JUDGE ORIE: If you have got the line there, because usually
4 searching through the system goes quicker if you have one or two words.
5 MR. EMMERSON: Well, Idriz Ukehaxhaj is one way of looking for it.
6 JUDGE ORIE: Okay.
7 MR. EMMERSON: But it is 3505, line 1.
8 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Thank you. I take it that you'll get a
9 response by Mr. Re.
10 MR. RE: I'll have a look.
11 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
12 MR. EMMERSON: It needn't delay matters at the moment.
13 JUDGE ORIE: Can the witness put his earphones on?
14 MR. EMMERSON: Yes.
15 Cross-examination by Mr. Emmerson:
16 Q. Mr. Tetaj, I want to start, if I may, by asking you some questions
17 about the 24th of March, 1998, that is the day that the MUP attacked the
18 Haradinaj family compound in the village of Gllogjan. This is something
19 that you've mentioned in your witness statements but didn't -- weren't
20 asked questions about by Mr. Re.
21 First of all, prior to that incident on the 24th of March, had you
22 heard, yourself, about the MUP attacks in Drenica at the end of February
23 and the beginning of March on the Ahmeti and Jashari family compounds in
24 Likoshan and Prekaze? Had you heard about those?
25 A. Yes.
1 Q. Can I ask you: What, from your observations, what effect did the
2 news of those two attacks in Drenica have on the Albanian civilian
3 population in the area where you were living?
4 A. It caused a great panic because they were attacked. There was an
5 operation from the Serb police forces. The communication was attacked.
6 It was a very unenviable situation for the population at the time and for
7 the villages, including the village where I lived.
8 Q. Were people in the area around where you lived, were they aware of
9 the extent of the killing that had happened in those two incidents, the
10 number of people killed?
11 A. Yes. Yes. They knew because everything came across from Drenica
12 because the events were mirrored by the radio and television of Pristina.
13 And all the corpses of the Jashari family were seen by all the people
14 across Kosovo.
15 Q. In your consolidated witness statement - and whenever I refer to a
16 paragraph of your witness statement, unless I indicate otherwise, I'm
17 referring to the consolidated longer statement that was made in April - at
18 paragraph 12 of that statement, you say that you could hear the sounds of
19 the MUP attack on Gllogjan on the 24th of March from Donja Luka. You
20 personally could hear it?
21 A. Yes. I've heard myself and I saw it myself because in aerial
22 distance it was very short. It's a 6-, 7-kilometres long distance. It
23 was mid-day so I personally saw it and heard it.
24 Q. Can you describe from where you were what you could hear and see,
1 A. Yes. During the attacks on the Haradinaj family in Gllogjan,
2 there were many helicopters involved in the attack. They attacked. They
3 fired rockets and heavy firing was heard. From inside the village you
4 could see smoke, billows of smoke, and I was curious to see what was going
5 on at the time.
6 Q. Can I just be absolutely clear, did you see rockets being shot
7 from the helicopters?
8 A. Yes. Yes. I saw them personally with my own eyes. You could --
9 if he got on the upper floor, you could see everything because the weather
10 was clear, the sky was clear, and you could see everything.
11 Q. Now, at paragraph 15 of your statement, you say that two or three
12 days after the event you went to Gllogjan, in effect, I think to see the
13 reality of what had happened there. Can I ask you this: Can you describe
14 for us what it was that you saw when you got there. There's a reference
15 in your statement to a lot of material damage caused by the impact of the
16 air-strikes. Can you just give the Trial Chamber an impression of the
17 extent of the damage.
18 A. Yes. Two or three days later after the Serb forces had withdrawn,
19 I decided to go in person to Gllogjan. In Gllogjan, in the centre of the
20 village, at the Haradinaj and around the Haradinaj family compound, there
21 were many houses destroyed. There were many people arrested by the Serb
22 police forces. On the road, I saw bombs and grenades, M-57 of the Serbian
23 army, and some of them were unexploded, so we marked them. And as far as
24 I remember, an officer of experience, Daut Haxhe, it was his field of
25 specialty, he came to dispose of these unexploded ordnance.
1 So we tried to tell the people to avoid walking on the unexploded
2 ordnance which were left behind which hadn't been exploded, and they were
3 from the Serb forces. There were many ruined houses. It was a silence, a
4 dead silence, people were in panic, very few people around. There was an
5 old man there, who was some 90 years old, and I met him. I can't remember
6 his name. He couldn't move. He was handicapped and he was very old, and
7 I went to see him. So the situation was very, very serious and
9 Q. When you refer to the unexploded ordnance, and you've described it
10 as the M-57 of the Serbian army, I just want to be clear, are you
11 suggesting that this ordnance was identifiable as VJ ordnance or could it
12 have been MUP ordnance?
13 A. Both the army and the MUP used the same ammunition because the
14 colour of the grenade or the hand-grenade or the bomb, judging from the
15 colour, they were used both by the MUP and the Yugoslav Army. So both of
16 them used the same ammunition; and by the initials that the ammunition
17 carried in the Serbian language, we knew that they were used by both.
18 So I cannot say that they were either of MUP or the VJ because
19 they were of the same colour. It was the same ammunition used by both.
20 Q. I understand. I understand. Thank you for that clarification.
21 Did you also on that occasion learn of the three teenagers who'd been
22 killed on that day?
23 A. Yes, I had heard about it. Some -- some of them were fleeing from
24 the violence. The site where it had happened, it was far from the
25 village. They were fleeing the fighting, and I attended their funeral.
1 Q. And the information that you've just given us about the
2 circumstances in which they died, is that something you learned from other
4 A. Yes. During the funeral, I heard people talk about how they were
5 killed, yes. They were -- there were speeches at the funeral, and they
6 talked about the moment when they were injured and killed. That was at
7 the funeral where I heard about it.
8 Q. Apart from the fear and panic you've described, would it be fair
9 to say there was some anger amongst the villagers about what had happened?
10 A. It was anger, not only from the people in the very place where the
11 killings had happened, but all across the region. People were angry
12 because they did not know what would happen to them the next day. Nobody
13 knew what methods they were going to use, and fresh attacks were expected.
14 There was a great panic and anger, and that was because people
15 were not organised and they were unprotected. They didn't have a home to
16 go back to. They didn't know what the next day would bring, and this was
17 being discussed among the villagers. Everybody had their own versions of
18 the story. But from my experience I know it was a tragic day, not only
19 for the Haradinaj family who defended -- resisted the attack on their
20 house and they defended the village. And they tried to defend everyone.
21 It was a critical moment for all the region, not only for the Haradinaj
23 Q. Now, you told us yesterday that after that incident, there was a
24 process by which you began to organise people within your own village into
25 a village defence in the first phase after the 24th of March, and I want
1 to ask you some more questions about that aspect of your evidence.
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Now, in your witness statement, paragraph 40, you say that you
4 were the only person in Donja Luka with a uniform. Can I just ask you,
5 first of all: When did you first get your uniform?
6 A. From the moment that we started to receive weapons, the weapons
7 came from the person who I mentioned yesterday, and he brought me only a
8 jacket, military jacket. It was about two months after the event that I
9 got hold of this jacket.
10 Q. And how long did you remain as the only person in Donja Luka with
11 a jacket or a uniform?
12 A. I suppose, in my village, I was the first and the last person to
13 have one. The whole of the rest of the village was civilian. Those
14 people who managed to buy a weapon for themselves, they had it, but all
15 the rest of the village were civilians. I was the only person in uniform.
16 Q. Are you saying that remained the position until you yourself left
17 Kosovo in September?
18 A. We're talking about the village, my village?
19 Q. Yes, yes. Are you saying -- sorry, let me put the question to
20 you --
21 A. In my village, from the moment I left. Yes, yes, continue with --
22 yes. From the moment that I left Kosovo with the soldiers of the FARK, I
23 was the only man in uniform in my village.
24 Q. Now, you also described in your statement - and you mentioned it
25 in your evidence yesterday - how some of the other villages close to
1 Gllogjan had started to form their own village guards. And you mentioned
2 particularly in your statement the villages of Dubrava, Baballoq,
3 Gramaqel, Shaptej, and Lumbardh. That's paragraph 22.
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Very briefly, if you will, can you just explain to the Trial
6 Chamber from your own knowledge or what you learnt at the time, how those
7 village guards came into existence. What was the process by which
8 farmers, people with ordinary day-to-day jobs, what was the process by
9 which they formed village guards?
10 A. Each and every village, as I said, in their own way made
11 preparations because of the fear they had. So there was this
12 self-initiative from every village to do something, to take the
13 precautions, because the same thing could happen in their own village. So
14 they got together, a group of people, to decide what they could do for the
15 future. They decided to send the village guard to find out who was coming
16 in and out of the village, and I did that in my village and it happened in
17 the villages surrounding ours, and that is how the whole thing expended.
18 But please remember that they were not soldiers. They were
19 ordinary people. They were people who was 60, 70 years old. So there
20 were people who were younger, of course, but I could not call them
21 soldiers. They were volunteers. They wanted to defend their village,
22 their house, and the surroundings with all they could.
23 Q. Up until this point, before the 24th of March, was it typical in
24 those villages for there to be a village leader, a mayor, somebody who was
25 regarded by the village as a person who would be turned to if village
1 matters needed to be decided? Was that a typical structure of village
3 A. Yes. It's a fact that in the villages there were political party
4 structures in several villages. The party leaders, the leader of the
5 democratic party, was a person of authority and people referred to him;
6 and according to the Kosovo tradition, it was normal to listen and to get
7 the advice from this person of authority. That's true. There was a
8 person in each and every village who had led the village in a way. And
9 this was even without the -- that was prior to the organisation.
10 Q. Yes. But, for example, in your village, who would that person
11 have been?
12 A. In my village, there was Halil Tetaj, Sami Gecaj. They were
13 representatives of the democratic party. From the moment Gllogjan was
14 attacked and we started to get the guard, village guard organisation, then
15 I was being trusted with that because I was a military officer. I had
16 been imprisoned for five years by the Serbs. So after that, in my
17 village, people were relying on me; and in other villages, they would come
18 from other villages to consult with me what to do in those circumstances.
19 Q. And just briefly, if you would, two questions: First of all, did
20 the village leaders, as far as you could see --
21 A. Yes, please, yes, yes.
22 Q. Did the village leaders, as far as you could see, play any role in
23 this self-initiated organisation of the villages that you've described?
24 A. Yes. They were representatives of that group.
25 Q. And just to be clear, when you went to that meeting that you've
1 told us about at the end of May that Ramush Haradinaj had issued an
2 invitation for, were many of the people --
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. -- were many of the people who attended there the village leaders
5 from civilian times?
6 A. Yes, that's true. All those people of authority in their own
7 villages, they were there because not every village had people of military
8 experience like myself. So those present there were elderly people or
9 civilians who had led the village life for ages. And more than 80 per
10 cent of those present were in civilian clothes. And they didn't have any
11 weapons at all because they don't know where to get them.
12 Q. Now, you've told us about - and you've mentioned in your
13 statement - a particular cluster of villages in the area around Gllogjan,
14 but is it right to say that a similar pattern was occurring further
15 afield, for example, in Isniq where Skender Rexhahmetaj came from, that
16 there was the same process taking place up there?
17 A. Yes. The same happened in other villages, but there were
18 villages, smaller villages, with fewer households. There were villages
19 that were sparsely inhabited, but the organisational structure was similar
20 in all the villages.
21 Q. In your testimony, yesterday, you described your first visit to
22 Gllogjan in April when you went to speak to the commander who turned out
23 to be Ramush Haradinaj. Can you help us just in any more detail about the
24 date of that visit?
25 A. I do not remember the exact date, but it was after -- after the
1 attack on the Haradinaj compound, two, three weeks after that. I can't
2 remember exactly what date. It was two, three, or more weeks after that.
3 I'm not sure.
4 Q. So is it fair to say sometime around or after the middle of April?
5 A. Yes. It's somewhere -- yeah, sometime then. It could have been a
6 month after the attack, maybe. I'm not sure, but I'm sure it's around
7 about that time.
8 Q. In your statement, when you described this meeting - this is
9 paragraph 35 - you say this, and I'm just going to read you a short
10 sentence or two. You say that Mr. Haradinaj told you that: "I should
11 organise my village on a village level. He said that later on they would
12 establish UCK HQs in every village, and then they would call the
13 representatives of each village HQ to form a Joint Command."
14 First of all, did he give you, as far as you can recall, any
15 impression as to how long he thought it might be before it would be
16 possible to call people together in that way?
17 A. No. I can't remember this, but I remember that he invited us for
18 a consultation and he informed all the villages that the situation was
19 very serious and complicated. And he asked for the opinion of all people
20 to express their opinion on their villages. Nobody could predict how
21 things would move on, so it was just a consultation that we had. So it
22 was just -- he was one of those people who were trying to keep things
23 going, to keep people up-to-date with what was going on.
24 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Emmerson.
25 MR. EMMERSON: Yes.
1 JUDGE ORIE: I draw your attention to page 21, line 7, you said
2 you would quote, and since the consolidated statement is not in evidence,
3 the real quote should have been: "I should organise my village in a
4 military way on a village level."
5 MR. EMMERSON: Thank you.
6 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, please proceed.
7 MR. EMMERSON:
8 Q. Just a moment ago, Mr. Tetaj, you said that he invited us for a
9 consultation. Is that the invitation that was sent out on the 25th of May
10 that you're referring to?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Could you now turn to tab 1 at the bundle, because I'm just going
13 to work through some of these documents with you?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Could you turn to tab 1 in the bundle, and I'm going to work with
16 you, if I may, briefly through the bundle. Some of them you've already
17 seen and some of them you haven't. Tab 1 has the original Albanian and
18 English translation of the invitation that you received dated the 25th of
19 May for a meeting on the 26th of May, and it's marked for identification
20 P123, P123.
21 Can I ask you this: Between the first time you went to Gllogjan
22 and met Ramush Haradinaj and the meeting on the 26th, Mr. Tetaj, had you
23 been to Gllogjan in the interval, or was this the first time you went
24 there after your initial visit?
25 A. After the first visit, this was the second one. I've not been any
1 more time in between these two visits.
2 Q. So for a period of a month or more, you had no contact with
3 Gllogjan between your first visit and this visit. Is that correct?
4 A. Yes, that's correct.
5 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Emmerson, could you please make sure that having
6 no contact is the same as not going.
7 MR. EMMERSON: Yes. I entirely take the point.
8 Q. You've told us that in that month you didn't visit, yourself. Was
9 there any communication passing between yourself and Mr. Haradinaj during
10 that month before you received this or not?
11 A. We did not.
12 Q. I'm sorry. I think the interpreter might not have got the whole
13 of your answer. Would you repeat your answer?
14 A. No, this was the first contacts.
15 JUDGE ORIE: Even there, would this mean that there was no
16 communication through telephone or in writing or through a courier who
17 would send a message? Was there no communication at all during that
19 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] This was the initial stage. So I
20 had the first meeting and then I met him for the second time; but during
21 the period between these two meetings, I have had no communication with
22 him. There was also no reason for him or for me to contact him. I was --
23 so, at that time, I organised the people who went to get the weapons. So
24 during the period you are talking about, there was no contact and there
25 was no reason for me to contact him.
1 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. You said at the time you organised the people
2 who went to get the weapons. Was there no communication about how to get
3 the weapons with --
4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] These were the people who went out
5 to get the weapons, and then they came back during -- I had no contacts
6 with the people when -- after they left. I met them when they returned.
7 During that period, I had no contacts with Ramush either. During that
8 time [indiscernible] the first round of weapons and ammunitions. So until
9 the first stage when we began our organisations, we had no contacts with
10 him, with Ramush.
11 JUDGE ORIE: And was Ramush involved in how to get the weapons?
12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No, no, no. He was in Gllogjan. We
13 were in contacts with Albania at that time. We sent the people across the
14 border. It was very, very risky. These people took the courage and they
15 went there, so it was through the contacts we had with Albania at that
17 JUDGE ORIE: Please proceed, Mr. Emmerson.
18 MR. EMMERSON:
19 Q. Now, at the meeting on the 26th of May, is it right that it was
20 you who proposed the creation of the four subzones that you marked for us
21 on the map yesterday, that was your suggestion?
22 A. That's correct.
23 Q. And I think you said yesterday that after that meeting, so 26th of
24 May onwards, from that point you considered yourself to be a part of the
25 KLA. Is that fair?
1 A. That's correct.
2 Q. Of the other people who were there at the meeting on the 26th of
3 May, was it your impression from what you could see and what you knew of
4 them that these were people who were already within the KLA?
5 A. The majority of the representatives were, as I said, they came
6 there with the hope. They knew that something was happening, that UCK was
7 emerging. The morale was stronger. People were more optimistic, despite
8 the risks we faced.
9 Q. Now, the first combat --
10 MR. EMMERSON: I'm sorry. I see Judge Hoepfel has a question.
11 JUDGE HOEPFEL: Was your question answered sufficiently?
12 MR. EMMERSON: Yes. Well, I regard that as a sufficient answer;
13 but if Your Honour would like a supplementary question asked, I'm
14 perfectly happy to ask one.
15 JUDGE HOEPFEL: No.
16 MR. EMMERSON:
17 Q. Can I move on then to the very first combat you were involved with
18 because you told us about this briefly yesterday. But the first serious
19 combat that you became involved with took place just two days after that
20 meeting, is that right, on the 28th of May?
21 THE INTERPRETER: Could the witness use the two microphones,
23 MR. EMMERSON:
24 Q. I think one of your microphones has gone off. Just bear with me a
1 A. Yes, that's correct.
2 Q. And you told us a little bit about that yesterday, but I just
3 want, if I may, to try to clarify some of the details with you. In your
4 consolidated witness statement, paragraph 62, you indicated that the MUP
5 and the VJ had approached Vranoc from the direction of Peje with tanks,
6 armoured vehicles, and heavy weapons.
7 First of all, can I ask you just to be clear. Are you certain
8 that the VJ was involved in that operation as well as the MUP, or could it
9 have been the MUP alone?
10 A. A part of them had tanks, that part belonged to the Serbian army;
11 however, the overwhelming forces wore police uniforms. This is what I saw
12 with my own eyes. The tanks were army tanks. They did not have blue
13 colour. They were not tanks belonging to the police; they were tanks
14 typical of the Serbian army.
15 Q. And just give us an impression briefly, if you will, of how the
16 Serb forces conducted that operation in Vranoc. What did they actually
18 A. The early hours of the morning the column left from Peje barracks.
19 It passed through Vranoc river. They came together. They took position
20 against the villages of Streoc and Dubrava and Kryshec and Dubovik, and
21 then they came to the cross near Vranoc. It was a construction project
22 there, a kind of building which was being constructed. They placed their
23 heavy artillery of the army there. The infantry and the police forces
24 then attacked from the other sides of the hill of Vranoc.
25 So then they used the hill of Vranoc as a kind of position, and
1 then they carried out this operation during the whole day. They opened
2 fire with the tanks against the houses in Vranoc, in lower Vranoc, in
3 upper Vranoc. They also destroyed the mosque and the house of the person
4 who served in the mosque. They were tanks of the Serbian fire which
5 opened fire. This operation continued until 6.00 in the afternoon. The
6 village had some organised civilian forces, but they were very, very
7 small. They had very few weapons. They tried to resist. Our houses are
8 of stone and we took position in these houses, and we opened fire from
9 there against the enemy.
10 I also took part. I was on the other side of Lumbardh, and I took
11 position in lower Vranoc. I had people with me who were volunteers who
12 had come with me. They were all civilians. They had light weapons and
13 they took position with me. I gave them orders. I was there personally.
14 I gave them orders through my mouth. I also tried to use some people to
15 convey my order. That was very, very difficult because it was fire coming
16 from all directions, from the Serbian police. We had only light weapons,
17 and we had -- we were also subjected to shelling from the artillery.
18 Q. You mentioned in your witness statement, para 62, that on their
19 retreat the Serb forces attacked Dubovik and Krusevac, and that similar
20 actions took place the same day in Streoc, in Isniq, in Carrabreg, in
21 Rastavica, and in Prilep. Is that correct?
22 A. That's true. After the withdrawal, at 6.00 the Serbian forces
23 went into a column. They withdrew, I saw them, then they went to the
24 direction of Dubovik and Kryshec, as well as to the road linking the area
25 with Peje. They went to the village of Dubovik. They opened fire time
1 and again. They stopped a little longer at Dubovik, then they went to
2 Streoc. They didn't go from Vranoc but from another road from the river
3 of Vranoc; and then they mounted other attacks, then they went to the
4 direction of Decane.
5 At the bridge of Dem which links Decane, they mounted this
6 uninterrupted attacks against the village of Isniq. There, Avni Poduxhaj
7 was killed. He was killed Lumbarda. He was killed on the same day. Then
8 in Carrabreg they made similar attacks. They went to the direction of
9 Gjakove; then they stopped at Prilep and they opened fire again on
10 Prilep. During the way -- during their movement, they opened fire. It
11 was sporadic fire.
12 Q. Can I ask you this: Was there also an attack that day on Vranoc?
13 A. Vranoc was still not in the system of the organisation we had;
14 therefore, Vranoc was left aside. I don't remember any attack on Vranoc.
16 Q. And a village called Lybeniq, do you know Lybeniq, was there an
17 attack there?
18 A. Yes, yes. During the way from Raushic on the right side, if you
19 come from direction of Decane, is the village of Lybeniq. They opened
20 fire against that village, too, and they did the same thing on Strellc as
21 I described to you earlier.
22 Q. Lybeniq and Streoc are quite close to the main road, aren't they?
23 A. Lybeniq, if you go from direction of Decane is on the right side
24 of the road; Strellc is on the left side. They are -- they are probably
25 about four kilometres between each other.
1 Q. Now, the British military attache to Belgrade visited those
2 villages in the days immediately following this incident and was informed
3 that forces answering the description of the JSO had killed 11 villagers
4 in those villages in this attack.
5 Can I ask you: Were you aware of the civilian casualties in
6 Lybeniq and Streoc or, indeed, military casualties? Were you aware of the
7 number of people who had been killed in those two villages?
8 A. I know that there were five people killed in Lybeniq. There were
9 some other people in Strellc killed. I don't know their names. In Isniq
10 I told you that there was one person killed. There were dead people, yes,
11 but I don't remember exactly the number.
12 Q. Now, finally, on the detail of that offensive, we've heard
13 evidence in this Tribunal from a police officer who was shot at on the
14 28th of May driving along the road very close to Lybeniq and Streoc and
15 who was shot and hurt in the leg. Can you tell us the young soldiers or
16 KLA volunteers who would have been deployed in that area, under whose
17 overall subzone would they have come?
18 A. Streoc was in subzone number 4.
19 Q. So that would be --
20 A. I don't remember about any officer. What officer are you talking
21 about, Albanian or Serbian officer?
22 Q. I'm sorry. A Serbian MUP officer who was shot and injured in the
23 leg by a group of young -- it was an incident that you were aware of?
24 A. I don't know. I don't know. I only know that this area belonged
25 to subzone number 4.
1 Q. That would be under Skender Rexhahmetaj and Gani Gjukaj?
2 A. Yes, exactly, Skender Rexhahmetaj and Gani Gjukaj. Rexhahmetaj
3 and Gani Gjukaj.
4 Q. Now, leaving aside the attacks in Drenica and the attack on
5 Gllogjan on the 24th of March, was this the first concerted major Serbian
6 offensive in the region?
7 A. In Decane area and Gllogjan, in Prekaze, however, also in
8 Likoshan, in Laushe, we saw on television that there were attacks on these
9 areas I just mentioned. There were attacks from MUP and paramilitary
10 forces in other areas of Drenica.
11 Q. When were they? Sorry. When are you referring to?
12 A. You asked me about the moment when Gllogjan and Haradinaj family
13 was attacked, so you asked me about attacks from that moment, didn't you?
14 Q. Yes. Let me put my question to you again, and I'll do it slowly
15 because it may be that it wasn't clearly enough phrased: Leaving the
16 attacks in Prekaze and Likoshan and the attack on the Haradinaj compound,
17 leaving those to one side for a moment, this assault on the 28th/29th of
18 May, was that the first major Serbian military offensive attacking a
19 number of villages in the Dukagjini area?
20 A. No. The village of Prilep was attacked earlier, the Carrabreg
21 village was also attacked earlier, Slavica.
22 Q. Thank you.
23 A. All the villages around Gllogjan, they were attacked, even before.
24 Q. I want to move to looking at the map that you marked for us
1 MR. EMMERSON: I don't know at what point it would be most
2 convenient to take our break. I'm happy to do it now if that's the most
3 convenient moment.
4 JUDGE ORIE: It depends if you can deal with the map in some five
6 MR. EMMERSON: I can, yes.
7 JUDGE ORIE: Then let's do it now and then have a break.
8 MR. EMMERSON:
9 Q. I'm going to come back in a little while to look in more detail at
10 the minutes of the meeting that took place in Jablanica on the 23rd of
11 June; but, first of all, we can see from the zones that you've marked on
12 this map that as at the end of May, they did not any area to the west of
13 the main road. Is that correct?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And they obviously did not include Jablanica either?
16 A. Until the moment when the original staff of Dukagjin was set up,
17 Jablanica was a separate zone so it was not included in these four
18 subzones. It was not included in them.
19 Q. Well, that was what I wanted to ask you. You say until the -- the
20 translation reads the original staff of Dukagjin was set up. Can I just
21 be clear. Are you saying until the meeting on the 23rd of June when the
22 staff of the Dukagjini Plain was established, until then, Jablanica was
23 not part of this coordinated grouping. Is that right?
24 A. That's correct. That's correct.
25 Q. And neither was Junik or Reka e Keqe?
1 A. No. These areas were not included there. We had these four
2 subzones. The other ones you had mentioned were not included in them.
3 There were Serbian forces. Carrabreg was not there. The line that is the
4 areas which are divided by Carrabreg, they were included, so Jablanica,
5 Junik, Carrabreg, all of them were not part of the subzones.
6 Q. But there were, obviously, were there not, KLA groupings,
7 clusters, in those areas?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Now, can you just help us with this. After the 23rd of June
10 meeting, after the staff of the Dukagjini Plain was set up, could you
11 indicate for us on the map the other areas which joined together to become
12 part of the Dukagjini Plain operational zone.
13 First of all, you mentioned Jablanica. Can you give us an idea of
14 the area around Jablanica that you would be referring to on the map; and
15 if necessary, perhaps you might mark it with a different colour, a green
16 or a red.
17 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. I've seen that the map has now been -- the
18 marked map has now been uploaded. Would you like to make the witness the
19 markings on the electronic version or the --
20 MR. EMMERSON: I think on the hard copy.
21 JUDGE ORIE: -- on the hard copy. Is that a spare copy that has
22 been provided to the witness, or is it the original?
23 MR. EMMERSON: It's the original. If Your Honour would rather
24 they be marked on the screen, they can be.
25 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Of course, we have assigned an exhibit number
1 to the copy of this document as marked by --
2 MR. EMMERSON: Very well.
3 JUDGE ORIE: -- the witness.
4 MR. EMMERSON: It's easiest to do it on the screen.
5 JUDGE ORIE: Either he should be provided with another colour copy
6 or the marking should be done --
7 MR. EMMERSON: I think it would be helpful to have them in
8 conjunction with one another rather than on two separate documents.
9 Q. If we could use the one on the screen, perhaps, you could take the
10 pen --
11 JUDGE ORIE: One moment.
12 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]
13 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. The Chamber prefers to have the marking be made
14 on the screen, so on the electronic copy. But perhaps then we first, Mr.
15 Emmerson, if you would -- is this the size you'd like to have it?
16 MR. EMMERSON: This is fine, yes.
17 JUDGE ORIE: Okay. Let's first ask whether the witness is --
18 could I, Mr. Tetaj, we will work from the screen at this moment. Are you
19 able -- perhaps with the assistance of the usher --
20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.
21 JUDGE ORIE: -- are you able to find your way on the map on the
22 screen as it is now? Is it clear enough for you?
23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes. Yes. Yes, I can.
24 JUDGE ORIE: Then please proceed, Mr. Emmerson.
25 MR. EMMERSON:
1 Q. Before you mark it, can I ask you this: When the meeting on the
2 23rd of June occurred and the staff of the Dukagjini Plain was
3 established, was Jablanica in a zone? Did it have a zone or was it merely
4 the town of Jablanica? How did it work? Was there an area around
5 Jablanica that was regarded as the zone or not?
6 A. No. It was just the village. It was the village of Jablanica
7 until then.
8 Q. And after the 23rd of June, can you indicate for us which areas
9 became a part of the Dukagjini Operational Zone, which centres of KLA
11 A. With the creation of the regional staff of the Dukagjini plateau,
12 the subzones that I mentioned yesterday, they have been marked here. They
13 were part of the operational zone of the Dukagjini plateau. Jablanica,
14 Kosuric, Junik, Vranoc, and the road leading to Loxhe, Rausic, on the
15 western side Junik, Smolice, Jasic, and other villages in the area. This
16 region was called the Operational Zone of the Dukagjin plateau. There was
17 no subzones 1, 2, 3, but it was called the Operational Zone of the
18 Dukagjin plateau.
19 Q. So did the original four subzones continue to exist after that, or
20 did they cease to exist as separate subzones?
21 A. As names, as numbers, all these subzones were functioning as they
22 originally were; but in reality the people who used to lead these
23 subzones, they were given new assignments. They had new duties under the
24 new organisation.
25 Q. Very well. With that explanation, I'm not going to ask you to
1 make a particular marking. And since you haven't made a marking --
2 MR. EMMERSON: Can we zoom-in on zone 1 for a moment. And once
4 Q. Now, there's one matter of clarification I want to seek from you
5 about the deployment of Serb forces that you've indicated here.
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. First of all, you drew a distinction yesterday between Baballoq
8 and the hill which is near Baballoq, and I just want to draw your
9 attention to two features. If you look immediately to the left, that is
10 to the west of Gramaqel, you can see --
11 A. Gramaqel, yes.
12 Q. Just to the west, just to the west of Gramaqeli is an elevated
13 area called Erecka Suka. Do you see that?
14 A. Yes, yes.
15 Q. Pause there for a moment. Just to the east of Gramaqel, above the
16 words "D. Bites," Donji Bites, there is Radonjicka Suka. --
17 A. Donji Bites.
18 Q. Immediately above that, yes.
19 A. Suke of Radoniq.
20 Q. Yes. There were two elevated sections there, two elevated hills
21 in other words. I want to suggest to you that there were Serb forces
22 stationed on both of them. Is that correct or not?
23 A. They were there and I have seen them with my own eyes, and they
24 were shelling the Haradinaj compound from there. I was at a height where
25 I could see shells 102-millimetre artillery firing, and they were
1 targeting the village of Gllogjan. They were stationed in this area, and
2 they were on the Suke of Baballoq. They opened fire on Gramaqel from
3 there. The village of Baballoq lower down was on our side, controlled by
4 us; but the heights were controlled by the Serb forces.
5 Q. Just so that we're clear, Serb forces on both of those two hills?
6 A. That's correct. The Suke of Baballoq was right from the start in
7 their control, and it was a big problem for us because they had taken
8 control of these heights, key points, and they were very close to the
9 residential areas and our forces as well.
10 Q. And may I --
11 JUDGE ORIE: May I ask one second.
12 Mr. Re, we heard evidence of a similar nature in the past. Is
13 there any dispute about Serb forces or Serb artillery on these elevations,
14 apart from what they exactly did, but it has not been pursued by
15 Mr. Emmerson in great detail on when or how the Haradinaj compound was
16 shelled from one of these positions. But is there any dispute about the
17 presence of artillery units on these elevations?
18 MR. RE: The area in which there may be dispute is the time when
19 they were there.
20 JUDGE ORIE: Okay. Then we should focus on the time and then
21 anything else. Please proceed.
22 MR. EMMERSON: Thank you. I can conclude this in just a couple of
23 minutes, and I'll come back to that question in just one second.
24 Q. Mr. Tetaj, can you see to the east side of Lake Radoniq another
25 hill called Suka Cermjan? Do you see that, Suka Cermjan, it's just to the
1 east side, the right-hand side of Lake Radoniq?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Were there Serb artillery forces stationed there as well?
4 A. In the Suke of Cermjan, that was called the door-step, as it were,
5 because it was used for aerial attacks. It was used by the anti-aircraft
6 artillery, and all the guns there were aiming at Zhabel and Grgoc. I was
7 there when they fired from there, when they fired their artillery from
9 Q. Could you now on this map, please, draw a circle around those
10 three hills; Erecka Suka, Suk Radonjic, and Suka Cermjan and hatch them in
11 the way that you have the area of Bitesh, so that we have it clear the
12 areas that you have marked as --
13 A. You want me to mark it?
14 Q. Yes.
15 JUDGE ORIE: One moment, please. We first have to zoom.
16 MR. EMMERSON: Again, and I think one more time. One more in.
17 Could we zoom-in just one more. Thank you.
18 And it might be convenient to mark them in blue so they don't get
19 confused with either the red or the black.
20 JUDGE ORIE: Is there a blue?
21 MR. EMMERSON:
22 Q. Yes, please, all three of them. You can mark them with a cross or
23 a circle. It's entirely up to you.
24 A. [Marks]
25 Q. Thank you.
1 A. Also, in Prilep, there was a hill where the Serb forces were
2 stationed, and that's on the opposite side. If you look at the road
3 between Gjakove and Decane, there was a hill by the road where the Serb
4 forces were stationed, the police forces; and from that hill, they could
5 see the area around Junik, and they had fired from there towards Junik and
7 Q. Could you first mark Suka Cermjan for us, as you've described, and
8 then mark the hill you've just described near Prilep.
9 A. Yeah. I've marked these 1, 2, 3, and then I'll do the rest.
10 Q. I'm sorry --
11 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Emmerson, there seems to be some confusion.
12 Mr. Tetaj, the third marking you made is on the north-western side
13 of Lake Radonjic, which on my map reads to be Slatina. That's not, as far
14 as I understand, what Mr. Emmerson had in mind when he was referring to
15 Suka Cermjan. Could you please try to find Suka Cermjan, or were you
16 actually thinking of Slatina when questions were put to you in relation to
17 Suka Cermjan?
18 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I thought it's right here, but I'm
19 not clear about this map. Now I'm looking at it now. I'm sorry. I've
20 made a mistake. I am sorry. The Suka Cermjan is right here; it's 699,
21 the number on the map.
22 MR. EMMERSON:
23 Q. Very well. Now, just to be clear, in the centre, you've got two
24 blue circles, one above the other. Is the top circle, is that a mistake?
25 Because if there's one of those circles that is an error, would you please
1 put a across through it now.
2 A. Yes, it's a mistake.
3 Q. Very well. Thank you.
4 A. I wanted to make an improvement on a mistake which I made
5 yesterday. I'm looking at the black line. Maznik was part of subzone 3,
6 the village of Maznik.
7 Q. Thank you.
8 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Emmerson, my attention was drawn to the
9 possibility of erasing a marking if someone would like.
10 MR. EMMERSON: Oh.
11 JUDGE ORIE: So, perhaps, in order to avoid further confusion, I
12 suggest that with the assistance of Madam Usher that the Slatina marking
13 will be erased.
14 MR. EMMERSON: Thank you.
15 JUDGE ORIE: Now we see on the screen that it is erased.
16 MR. EMMERSON: Thank you very much.
17 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I need a black pointer. The colour
18 of this pen is blue.
19 MR. EMMERSON:
20 Q. Just --
21 A. Can I have a black pointer, please.
22 Q. Can I interrupt you for a second. You're asking for a black
23 pointer in order to include to include Maznik in subzone 3; is that
25 A. Yes. The village of Maznik which I made a mistake yesterday, I
1 wanted to improve that with the black pointer.
2 JUDGE ORIE: At this moment, we can't do that because this one has
3 been stored and has been assigned; but if there's any correction to be
4 made, it seems that Mr. Emmerson is not extremely --
5 MR. EMMERSON: I'm happy with the fact that we that have on
6 transcript and it's clear from the record.
7 Q. Finally this, because we have to take a break in just a second,
8 Mr. Tetaj, but whilst we still have the map in front of us, I want to ask
9 you about the period of time that there was Serb forces stationed on these
10 three hills.
11 First of all, was there Serb forces stationed on those hills from
12 the 24th of March onwards?
13 A. From the start of the bombing on the Haradinaj compound, the Serb
14 forces for the first time came with their military units, and they settled
15 there in the forest of chestnuts, which wasn't mentioned here; and then
16 they occupied the Suke of Bitesh and that of Baballoq. They were
17 stationed in these points. Later on they took the Suke of Cermjan. So
18 with time, these three positions, they had been there for a while, the
19 Serb forces.
20 Q. As far as you are aware, can you tell us did they remain in those
21 three elevated positions throughout the summer and into September when you
23 A. That's correct.
24 Q. And --
25 A. On the contrary, they brought on reinforcements.
1 Q. And on the two hills to the west of the lake, Erecka Suka and Suka
2 Radonjic, was the shelling to Gllogjan from both of them or from one of
4 A. The shelling of Gllogjan was carried out from the forest of
5 chestnuts with artillery, but most of the shelling took place from
6 Bitesh. So Gllogjan was attacked from Bitesh mostly.
7 Q. Finally this, when you say "the forest of chestnuts," can you
8 indicate to us, is that a place you've already marked?
9 A. No, no. I haven't marked it because we didn't talk about it. I
10 cannot see it on the map, on this section of the map. It should go
11 further down so that we can see that area.
12 Q. Very well. We can't move it at this stage.
13 A. It was close to the Decane monastery. Before the Serb forces
14 moved to the areas we talked about, they were stationed near the Decane
16 Q. And finally this, was the shelling of Gllogjan something that took
17 place intermittently but consistently right the way through from April to
19 A. From April to September, yes, frequent shelling. The artillery
20 shells of the Serb army, they fell on the meadows of Prekolluku and
21 Irzniq. There were positions set up there, and the electricity circuit
22 which was supplying electricity to the area was damaged from the forest of
23 chestnuts because the distance from that place to Gramaqel is about 13
24 kilometres. The artillery that they were using was able to shell these
25 areas --
1 Q. Thank you.
2 A. -- these villages.
3 Q. Thank you.
4 MR. EMMERSON: And thank Your Honour for the extension of time.
5 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, because the five minutes have now become 25
7 JUDGE HOEPFEL: Do you want us to save that screen?
8 MR. EMMERSON: Yes, if that can be marked for identification and
10 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
11 Madam Registrar, the number for this now again marked but now with
12 blue markings map would be ...?
13 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, this would be exhibit D38, marked
14 for identification.
15 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Madam Registrar.
16 Mr. Tetaj, we'll have a break and we'll resume at 20 minutes past
18 --- Recess taken at 10.53 a.m.
19 --- On resuming at 11.22 a.m.
20 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Emmerson, please proceed.
21 MR. EMMERSON: May I mention two matters briefly.
22 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
23 MR. EMMERSON: Mr. Re has kindly confirmed that the confirmation I
24 sought at the outset of my cross-examination that the two incidents
25 referred to in respect of Idriz Ukehaxhaj are the same; in other words, it
1 is the incident from which we've heard evidence from Witness 29.
2 JUDGE ORIE: 29.
3 MR. EMMERSON: Secondly this: Just on the question of timing for
4 today, with Your Honours' permission, my intention would be to conclude by
5 the end of today; in other words, by quarter to 2.00. Is that the
6 acceptable to the Court?
7 JUDGE ORIE: This also depends on how much time the other Defence
8 counsel would need.
9 Mr. Guy-Smith.
10 MR. GUY-SMITH: Yes. I believe I'm going to need about an hour.
11 JUDGE ORIE: About an hour.
12 Mr. Harvey.
13 MR. HARVEY: It will be very short, if there's anything at all,
14 Your Honour.
15 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
16 In view of the fact that the Prosecution has taken effective three
17 hours and 55 minutes, I think it would be fair that you conclude by today
18 and that other Defence counsel would conclude in the first session
19 tomorrow morning. We'll then in the second session tomorrow morning deal
20 with some procedural matters and then most likely not a third session
21 tomorrow morning.
22 MR. EMMERSON: Thank you.
23 JUDGE ORIE: Please proceed.
24 MR. EMMERSON: Thank you very much.
25 Q. I want, if I may now, Mr. Tetaj, to take you to some of the
1 documents, the minutes of various meetings. I'm going to try to ask you
2 short questions, and I'm going to try to invite you to give me short
3 answers so that we can move reasonably swiftly through them.
4 Can we start, please, behind tab 3 with the minutes of the meeting
5 of the 21st of June, which, as the minutes record, took place in Irzniq.
6 MR. EMMERSON: For Your Honours, both translations are behind that
7 document, the unofficial and the official translation.
8 Q. There were three aspects of this minute I want to ask you about,
9 Mr. Tetaj. First of all, we can see from the list of those present that
10 in addition to Mr. Haradinaj, Shemsedin, which is presumably Mr. Rexhepaj.
11 Is that correct?
12 A. Yes. Yes, that's how I know.
13 Q. And we see a little further down Skender Rexhahmetaj, who was the,
14 you've told us, the joint subzone commander for zone 4. In addition at
15 that meeting, were Lahi Maxhupi and Nazmi, were they Lahi and Nazmi
17 A. Yes, yes.
18 Q. The object of this meeting, putting it shortly, was to discuss
19 coordination. Is that right?
20 A. I saw this document yesterday for the first time. I confirmed
21 that the meeting took place. I was present there; however, I have never
22 seen Nazmi and Lahi Brahimaj being present there together.
23 Q. Very well.
24 A. I don't know how their names have been included here. This is not
25 even logical to have Nazmi and Lahi, both of them present at the meeting.
1 Lahi is written here, but it was -- he was not written there.
2 Q. Well, I think if we look down the minutes --
3 A. Halim Tolaj, and this is another name which I don't remember
4 seeing there at the meeting. I don't know him personally; however, I also
5 don't remember him being present at that meeting.
6 Q. Very well. Well, it may be that your recollection is playing
7 tricks on you, Mr. Tetaj, because there are various comments in the
8 minutes themselves that are recorded as having been made, I think, by one
9 of the Brahimaj brothers, by Maxhupi, that is Lahi Brahimaj, but we'll
10 come to that in a moment or two.
11 First of all, if you will, if you look on your copy; that is to,
12 say the Albanian version, just about halfway down the page, and on our
13 copy that's --
14 A. Can I say something? Dauti was not there. Ramush was there, but
15 Daut was not there. Rrustem was not there, too. So Daut was not there.
16 I remember there very well. Daut, and not Nazmija, and Lahija Ramush,
17 they were never together. I'm talking about only those meetings at which
18 I was present myself.
19 Q. Well, just listen carefully and look at the minutes, if you will,
20 with me for a moment or two. This is a meeting that took place just two
21 days before the 23rd of June meeting in Jablanica, and it's plain, I would
22 suggest, from the very opening lines of it that the purpose of the
23 meeting, as the text says under Mr. Haradinaj's name, is: "Coordination
24 of common activities.
25 So far we can say that it was the Dukagjini headquarters." That's
1 the opening remarks of Mr. Haradinaj; and he goes on to say: "Reka,
2 Dushkaja, i.e., Jablanica, and Gllogjan should be included here. At any
3 given moment, the subzone with the most urgent need should be assisted and
4 the forces should be sent from the Dukagjin HQ."
5 Do you see those opening words?
6 A. Yes.
7 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Emmerson, now you are quoting from the draft
8 translation. Wouldn't it not be better to, since I take it that the
9 official translation will replace the draft translation, that you quote
10 from the official one.
11 MR. EMMERSON: You're quite right.
12 JUDGE ORIE: Please proceed.
13 MR. EMMERSON:
14 Q. Let me put it on to the record: On the official translation, the
15 opening words are: "The reason for the meeting is to coordinate joint
16 activities at Dukagjin level. So far we can say that there has been a
17 self-proclaimed Dukagjin staff to some extent. This ought to include
18 Reka, Junicko Polje, Dushkaja, i.e., Jablanica, and Gllogjan. At the
19 given moment, we need to assist the subzone which has the greatest need
20 and forces should be sent from the Dukagjin staff."
21 Now, just pausing there, Mr. Tetaj, and if you look halfway down
22 the page.
23 MR. EMMERSON: And for Your Honours, it will be towards the bottom
24 of page 1 of the official translation.
25 Q. You are recorded as saying this: "We have taken a step. We are
1 in favour of cooperation. For those zones that we have, we should work in
2 coordination with Jablanica. We are in favour of joining up with all the
3 representatives of those zones. We are happy for all activities to be
4 coordinated, for us to share tasks."
5 So that is recorded as your contribution to the meeting,
6 Mr. Tetaj. Does that reflect your thinking at the time?
7 A. Yes, certainly.
8 Q. If you could now look, please, for me at the contribution from
9 Ramush Haradinaj that follows. There's your contribution, then there's a
10 contribution from Maxhupi and from you again and from Maxhupi, and there
11 then follows a contribution from Mr. Haradinaj. So the last full
12 paragraph on your first page. Does that begin with Mr. Haradinaj saying
13 that: "The purpose of the activity" --
14 A. Yes, I see.
15 Q. Does it begin with him saying: "The purpose of the activity is to
16 get everyone together in a single family like one working body"? Do you
17 see that?
18 A. Yes, yes.
19 Q. All right. Now, I now want to --
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. I now want to look with you, if I may, about halfway down that
22 body of text, and I'm going to start reading the English translation. So
23 it's halfway down the large paragraph on page 2 in the official
24 translation from Mr. Haradinaj's contribution.
25 The subject is: "Advancing the work, specifically the Kosovo
1 Liberation Army must be transformed into a superbly organised army, a
2 superbly directed functional and well-regulated army without any splits,
3 parallelisms, dark sides, gangsters, vandals, and without any serious
4 vices, fratricide, et cetera. This method closes the way to
5 rumour-mongers. Wherever you go, it has be the same. It will not depend
6 on him, not on me, not an Ali, not on anyone individual. We meet once a
7 week. Having one sole body will have its own advantages. If it seems too
8 early to you, we can leave it until another time; however, responsibility
9 for any inactivity will fall upon us."
10 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Emmerson.
11 MR. EMMERSON: Yes. I'm sorry. Too fast.
12 Q. And then just a little further down, just one sentence further on
13 it continues: "We have still been unable to work in the Dukagjin Zones
14 that have not yet been liberated. Things are progressing in general.
15 Should anyone be able to do something, let him do it. In critical
16 situations, I may perhaps have a possibility of helping someone, but I may
17 not know where they are in the field in order to help them, what to take
18 with me, and where to deploy. We do not know what the situation is in
19 Celopek, Vranoc, et cetera."
20 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Emmerson.
21 MR. EMMERSON:
22 Q. And he goes on: "If it is not necessary to know all this, then
23 okay" --
24 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Emmerson.
25 MR. EMMERSON: I'm sorry.
1 [Trial Chamber doing something?]
2 JUDGE ORIE: Please proceed.
3 MR. EMMERSON:
4 Q. He says: "If it is not necessary to know all this, then okay; but
5 in the opposite case, it would not be reasonable. We need to make efforts
6 to get out to you today and to the towns."
7 Pausing there, Mr. Tetaj, is that your recollection of the
8 position on the ground, that there was a lack of coordination and
9 communication that this series of meetings was trying to address?
10 A. That's true. This was a working meeting. We discussed all these
11 issues which you just mentioned. We also discussed about how we could
12 take a further step so that in the next -- at the next meeting these three
13 areas would be included. Before that meeting, we discussed the
14 transformation of the staff into the regional staff. We had problems with
15 coordination and we discussed this.
16 The idea was to improve things, to set up a structure, to have
17 coordination like a proper army has coordination. So it's true that we
18 discussed all these issues. I had some problems with the names of the
19 people who I remember they were not there. It's a long time ago, so
20 probably I'm not right about their presence; however, I remember that at
21 those meetings Nazmija and Lahija were not present. Lahija was there but
22 Nazmija not. Again, I ask for your forgiveness for some --
23 Q. Don't worry about that, Mr. Tetaj, but can I ask you, again, just
24 try to remember to keep your answers a little shorter and a little more
25 focused on the specific questions, just so we can get through the material
1 we have to cover.
2 If you look at the third line up from the very bottom of the
3 minutes, so if you look to the very end of the minutes, the last line on
4 the second page, if you look to the third line up from the bottom, I think
5 it's clear, is it not, that the meeting ends with Mr. Haradinaj indicating
6 that there's only going to be one issue to decide at the next meeting, and
7 that is organisational personnel planning.
8 The very end of the -- if you look -- I think you're looking in
9 the wrong place, Mr. Tetaj. If you look at the very bottom of that page,,
10 three lines up from the bottom, there even an entry: "Ramushi." Do you
11 have that?
12 A. Yes, Ramushi at the next meeting.
13 Q. And is it clear from that that the only item to be decided at the
14 following meeting on the 23rd would be reorganisation?
15 A. Yes, yes. This had to do with the organisational system.
16 Q. Now, if you just look a little further up on that page, there's a
17 heading: "Regarding the military police." And if I can just summarize it
18 very briefly, it looks from the minutes as though two different -- it
19 looks from the minutes as though two different draft suggestions have been
20 discussed about the possibility of establishing a military police in the
21 Dukagjin region.
22 And about halfway down the third main paragraph, Mr. Haradinaj is
23 recorded as saying: "The item which talks about the responsibility of the
24 information service, we are still not at such a level of organisation as
25 to have an information service here."
1 Do you see that?
2 A. Yes. Yes, I see.
3 Q. Can I ask you, please, to confirm that as at this period - that is
4 to say, the end of June - there was no military police organisation in the
5 Dukagjini region?
6 A. Yes, that's correct. Until that moment, until those meetings,
7 there was no such structure.
8 Q. And if we could just go slightly out of chronological order,
9 briefly, and turn to tab 24 at the back of the bundle, there is a minute
10 there of a meeting of the 25th of July which you are recorded as having
11 attended, although it looks as though you arrived late. Do you see that
13 A. Yes, but just a moment. Yes, I see it now.
14 Q. So you're first listed as absent, and then at the very end of the
15 attendees it says: "Rrustem Tetaj arrived in the meantime." Do you see
17 A. Not yet.
18 Q. I'm sorry. Just at the very top, just above the first line that
19 runs across the page is the list of people who attended. First of all,
20 you're listed as being absent and then it says: "Rrustem Tetaj arrived in
21 the meantime." Is that right? Mr. Tetaj, just here.
22 A. Yes. Yes. "Rrustem Tetaj," yes, but I can't read it properly.
23 Q. Very well.
24 A. It's difficult for me to read. Yes, yes. Yes, you are right.
25 "Arrived in the meantime," I can see it now.
1 Q. Now, immediately under that line, there is a recorded contribution
2 from Mr. Haradinaj - just bear with me a moment - after the first line in,
3 the second line it goes on: "Work on the creation of the military police.
4 The police to be organised into platoons and with commanders and deputy
5 commanders for the area, for example, the Reka area, one platoon, et
6 cetera, eight platoon commanders constitute one leading command." And
7 then this: "We have thought of Tigri as commander of the police, and the
8 General Staff has approved this. The brigades support the idea of a
9 military police," and so on.
10 Now, pausing there for a moment, Tigri is a man called Fadil
11 Nimonaj. Is that correct?
12 A. Fadil Nimonaj, yes. Tigri was Fadil Nimonaj, yes.
13 Q. Now, you've told us a moment ago that there was no military police
14 in existence as at the 21st of June. Is it also the position, therefore,
15 from this minute, that there was no military police in existence, as at
16 the 25th of July; although, efforts were being made to try and create one?
17 A. That's correct, that's true.
18 Q. Thank you.
19 Now I want to go to the meeting of the 23rd of June, which is
20 behind tab 4 and tab 5. Can I just explain this to you briefly,
21 Mr. Tetaj. You were shown yesterday -- behind tab 4. You were shown
22 yesterday some minutes of the meeting at Jablanica on the 23rd of June,
23 and they were the handwritten minutes that were obviously taken in the
24 course of the meeting itself.
25 There is a second set of minutes, which are typed up behind tab 5.
1 So you've got two sets of minutes of the same meeting, one is behind tab
2 4. I think you're still behind tab 3 there. Perhaps if the usher could
3 just help you. Behind tab 4 is the document you looked at yesterday.
4 A. Yes, yes.
5 Q. And then behind tab 5 is a typed version slightly different
6 wording but essentially the same information. Just a few questions on
7 these minutes with you, if I may. I'm going to use the typed version
8 because it's slightly easier to follow, except for in one respect.
9 First of all, can I ask you to look, please, in the Albanian of
10 the typed version. So behind tab 5 look at the second page, just turn
11 over on to the next page. Yes. About halfway down, do you see Tetaj,
12 your name, there?
13 A. Yes, I can see it.
14 Q. So this is your contribution in the 23rd of June meeting; and
15 again, if I can just summarize it briefly, I think you are in support of
16 the idea of coordination. Is that right?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. At the bottom of that paragraph, you refer to a military school
19 which is ready. Was that the military school in Prapaqan that you were
20 then referring to?
21 A. That's correct.
22 Q. Thank you. I'll come back to the Prapaqan school in a little
23 while. And if you just look to the next entry against your name, which is
24 just halfway down the following page, so the opposite page, it was you, I
25 think, who proposed Mr. Haradinaj as commander of the new Dukagjin Plain
1 Operational Zone. Is that right?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And, finally, with these minutes, could I ask you just to turn
4 back to tab 4 now, to the handwritten minutes, and find the very last
6 A. I have a question.
7 Q. Yes.
8 A. As soon as I was informed by Haradinaj, after I came here, I
9 didn't know anything about Smajl. Rrustemi was not there, but I can see
10 here the name of Smajl here. So I'm not very much clear, I am confused.
11 Q. We can look at it in the original.
12 A. Are you referring to Ramush Haradinaj when you mention Smajl?
13 Q. Well, we can actually look at the original minutes as they were
14 written. If you turn back to tab 4. All right. Can you turn back to tab
15 4, yes? And if you find -- if you look at the numbers in the top
16 right-hand corner of the pages, do you see it? In the top right-hand
17 corner of the page, there is a number, Mr. Tetaj. If you look at page 3,
18 it's on the right-hand side of the document you are looking at, at the
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. If you look at the bottom of that page, page 3 --
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. -- it recorded: "R.I. Tetaj proposes R. Haradinaj." Do you see?
24 A. Yes. Yes, that's correct.
25 Q. Is that how you remembered it?
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Could you just turn two pages further on. Right at the end of the
3 minutes there is a list, which does not appear in the typed minutes, of
4 titles given to people at this meeting. Obviously, we know that Ramush
5 Haradinaj had been elected commander, and you told us that Lahi Brahimaj
6 had been elected deputy commander and Sali Veseli Chief of Staff. Now, I
7 just want to ask you one or two questions about that list, if I may, for a
9 A. Yes. Yes, I can see it. It's printed here.
10 Q. Thank you.
11 MR. EMMERSON: We have that in relation to this at the last few
12 lines of page 5 of the English translation and on to page 6.
13 Q. Now, Mr. Tetaj, you told us yesterday on a number of occasions
14 that some of the titles that were used in the developmental phase of the
15 KLA in the Dukagjin region, titles like "HQ" and "commander," were what
16 you described as big names which didn't reflect the reality.
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Does that also apply to some of these posts that are listed here,
19 that comment?
20 A. That's correct. That's correct. These are the names we wanted to
21 use in order to make progress, in order to have good morals, to make
22 progress. The idea was good; however, there is difference between theory
23 and practice. It was -- we are talking about that particular moment.
24 Q. Well, that's what I wanted to ask you about. Skender Rexhahmetaj,
25 so the joint commander of subzone 4, has made a statement to the
1 Prosecution in this case in March 2006. And referring to this list at
2 paragraph 42 of his statement, he says this: "Some of these appointments
3 never actually came into effect, for instance, mine. This was because we
4 never actually got the anti-tank equipment."
5 Now, we can see that -- we can see that Skender Rexhahmetaj is
6 listed as anti-armoured combat unit. I mean, did that title mean anything
7 in real terms, Mr. Tetaj?
8 A. What is said was correct. I was deputy -- deputy Chief of Staff.
9 I was in charge of logistics. Of course, these are big titles. But if
10 you don't have the arsenal of weapons, if you don't have good supplies,
11 then this means that the titles are good on paper, but they are, indeed, a
12 bit bloated, let's put it this way. So what you said was quite correct.
13 Q. Well, just to be clear, in relation to Skender Rexhahmetaj, can
14 you confirm that what I just put to you is correct; namely, that his
15 appointment was effectively meaningless because there wasn't any anti-tank
16 equipment available for him to command?
17 A. It was fictitious. We thought that time would come when we would
18 have that. We were just preparing for that time to come.
19 Q. And talking of bloated titles, somebody called Muhamet Berisha is
20 appointed as head of biological and chemical defence. What did you
21 understand that might mean within the emerging KLA village structure?
22 A. I don't remember who this person was. I'm not sure whether I've
23 seen him before. I see the name now on the paper; however, if you want me
24 to respond more specifically, this is a fictitious title. We're talking
25 about perspective here. It had nothing to do with biological and chemical
1 means at that time. We had nothing of that sort at that time.
2 Q. I mean, the reality is these were grand-sounding titles which were
3 aspirational. They were to make you sound like you were an army.
4 A. In reality -- I'm sorry to say this, but in reality, I also said
5 yesterday we use a lot of word like "headquarters," "commander." These
6 are titles, unfortunately. I do not want to lower the value of what KLA
7 did because we started from scratch. The ideas were good; however, the
8 use of these names was fictitious for that particular moment. I don't
9 know whether you understand me.
10 Q. No, I understand you well.
11 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Emmerson, I do not know whether the Chamber is
12 greatly assisted by generalising. I mean, if there are no biological and
13 chemical defence units, that, of course, does not allow for the conclusion
14 that everything on that list is -- for example, if I see assistant for
15 sabotage combat, Toger, then in some sweeping statements everything's out,
16 which might not reflect the level of accuracy and precision we would need.
17 MR. EMMERSON: Yes. Does Your Honour wish me to go through the
18 list one by one?
19 JUDGE ORIE: No, I'm not.
20 MR. EMMERSON: No.
21 JUDGE ORIE: But at the same time it's not that difficult with the
22 example of biological and chemical defence to say all the titles were
23 nonsense. It's the answer of the witness.
24 MR. EMMERSON: No. But Your Honour has the other answer as well;
25 namely, Skender Rexhahmetaj.
1 JUDGE ORIE: No, it's --
2 MR. EMMERSON: If I may say so, the thrust of what I was seeking
3 to elicit is that these documents can't be taken literally.
4 JUDGE ORIE: That we cannot rely on -- okay. The point has been
5 clearly made, and I take it you also understood my message.
6 MR. EMMERSON: Yes, I do.
7 JUDGE ORIE: Please proceed.
8 MR. EMMERSON:
9 Q. Can we turn to tab 6, please, which is the minutes of a meeting
10 that took place the next day at which you were present, as was Ramush
11 Haradinaj. And I just want to ask you one or two questions about that,
12 first of all. We can see -- and this is for you, it's about -- do you
13 have that document, tab 6? Yes?
14 A. Yes, 000352. Yes, I can see it.
15 Q. Yes, that's the one. That is obviously a meeting of the 24th of
16 June. You're recorded as being present, as is Sali Veseli, Lahi Brahimaj,
17 and Ramush Haradinaj, and others.
18 A. Yes, yes.
19 Q. First of all, if we look towards just about below halfway down in
20 the Albanian and a little further down on page 1 of the English
21 translation, we can see the Chief of Staff; that is to say, Sali Veseli,
22 setting out a training plan, and that follows on with a number of bullet
23 points over the next page and a half, a fairly detailed form of training
24 plan. Can I ask you this: Was that a training plan that was going to be
25 put into effect at the Prapaqan training centre that you were
2 A. Yes, that's correct. That's the idea. The idea was that in
3 Prapaqan village where we had the barrack, to have brief weekly training.
4 Q. The Prapaqan barracks were already then available for use by the
5 KLA in that area, were they?
6 A. Yes, that's correct. When I went there, it was already organised.
7 Our idea is that -- was that people who had no skills to use weapons, to
8 undergo some brief training so that they could become more familiar with
9 light weapons.
10 Q. It's important just to deal with the Prapaqan barracks, because of
11 the questions you've been asked about the relationship between FARK and
12 the KLA, which I'll come on to in just a moment. If we could look halfway
13 down the third page. So once the bullet points are over, the following
14 page, there is a discussion about 20 tons of flour which had arrived as
15 emergency aid in Isniq and five tons of it has gone missing, and there was
16 a discussion about the possibility that people were misusing resources.
17 And there is then a record of a comment made by Sali Veseli in
18 which it is suggested that a communique should be issued on misuse of
19 resources. And just at the end of that paragraph - so in your copy it is
20 just over two-thirds of the way down the page - there is a sentence which
21 reads: "For every propaganda against the KLA in my AOR, measures will be
22 taken before the military court."
23 A. Yes, I can see that.
24 Q. There wasn't, in fact, a military court in existence at this time,
25 was there?
1 A. No, no. Absolutely, there was no such court.
2 Q. So, again, just for the Trial Chamber's understanding of these
3 kinds of documents, why would it record that action would be taken in a
4 military court if there wasn't one?
5 A. This was done in order to address the public, in order to raise
6 the morale. We wanted to tell people that we are in the course of setting
7 up such things in order to prevent bad things from happening, you know,
8 bad things which might happen.
9 So this was a communique in order to inform the public about the
10 military court, but there was no such military court. The conditions were
11 not ripe for such a court yet. However, this was an idea, to set it in
12 the future if things proceeded well. This was simply on paper. There was
13 nothing concrete.
14 Q. So no military police in operation in the Dukagjini area, no
15 military court, but message is being sent out -- is it fair to say message
16 is being sent out to create the impression that you were a functioning
17 army amongst the population?
18 A. Yes. Yes, that's correct. We wanted to create a better image.
19 Q. And if we just look a little further down towards the bottom of
20 that page, the very last group of entries in the minutes, we can see that
21 money is handed out by Ramush to a number of you; Skender Rexhahmetaj,
22 yourself, Shemsedin Cekaj. So it is only zone commanders, and an
23 additional sum to you and Sali Veseli. Was this money being handed to you
24 for the purposes of furnishing and equipping the Prapaqan training centre?
25 A. Yes. This was money for the subzone. There were shortages of
1 flour and elementary things. This was the money we could use for those
3 Q. You appear to have been given an additional sum over and above the
4 sum that was given to the other subzone commanders, and the question I'm
5 putting to is: Were you given that money at that meeting to assist in
6 equipping the Prapaqan training centre?
7 A. Yes, for furnishing the training centre in Prapaqan, that's true.
8 Q. And, obviously, just so that we can put these dates in context,
9 this meeting took place on the very day that FARK forces first arrived in
10 Junik, is that correct, 24th of June?
11 A. Yes, in Junik, yes.
12 Q. Or at least in --
13 A. We didn't know that they were on the way, so we didn't know -- we
14 did not have any information about them coming. We proceeded our course.
15 We planned to hold this activity, and that's what we did.
16 Q. I'm going to ask you more questions about the FARK relationship in
17 just a second, but turn behind tab 7 if you will.
18 MR. EMMERSON: The reason, Your Honours, you will see behind tab 7
19 multiple copies of the same order. It is simply because that's the way
20 the exhibit arrived. So rather than pack it about, there's many, many
21 copies of the same order in Albanian, but it is only one order. The
22 English translation is obviously there only once.
23 Q. Mr. Tetaj, this is an order to you dated either the 8th or the 6th
24 of July, because it says 8th of July in type form and then the words --
25 the number 6 --
1 A. Yes, I can see.
2 Q. -- and then the number 6 is written in manuscript across the top.
3 Now, this is an order from Ramush Haradinaj to you, specifically, as well
4 as being copied to Naim Maloku and Driton Zenelit. Putting it shortly, is
5 this an order asking you to open the Prapaqan barracks, which would be
6 called the Jusuf Gervalla Centre, and appointing you the chief of the
8 A. Yes, that's correct. This was an order for me. I was appointed
9 as chief of Jusuf Gervalla Centre in Prapaqan.
10 Q. And then we can see that at item number 5, commanders of various
11 units are asked to appoint their most distinguished soldiers with military
12 training to assist in the realisation of the education process. Do you
13 see that?
14 A. Yes, I can see. That is how it was. The idea was to set up the
15 centre and other units to send people on a weekly basis so that these
16 people could undergo such course. They should have -- they should learn
17 how to use the weapons. So all the people in charge were asked to assist
18 in this process.
19 Q. And then if we turn behind tab 8, there's a list of KLA soldiers
20 who are assigned by Ramush Haradinaj on the same day to the Jusuf Gervalla
21 Centre. Is that correct? Do you see his signature at the bottom?
22 A. Yes. That's correct, yes. Yes, that's true.
23 Q. Yes. Thank you. Now, pausing there, it follows from what you've
24 told us, that the Prapaqan barracks were operational by the 8th of July
25 with a training centre run and funded by the KLA; correct?
1 A. That's correct.
2 Q. Now I want to move on to the FARK issue with you because by the
3 9th of July, and certainly by the 10th of July, FARK officers had been
4 allocated to the Prapaqan training centre, hadn't they?
5 A. That's true. The arrival of Tahir Zemaj with 22 officers and
6 several soldiers - I can't remember the exact number - they came from
7 Jasic and they came to Prapaqan, and they were for there and we organised
8 for them to settle in the Prapaqan barracks.
9 Q. First of all, I think they stayed in some houses in Isniq, and
10 then they were welcomed by the KLA under Ramush Haradinaj's authority. Is
11 that right?
12 A. Yes, that's correct. I was the one who admitted them. I welcomed
13 them, together with Skender Rexhahmetaj and several other.
14 Q. I want to ask you about Skender Rexhahmetaj because in the witness
15 statement he's made for the Prosecution, paragraphs 22 and 23, he says
16 that the soldiers who came in with Tahir Zemaj included 84 soldiers that
17 he had sent from his subzone; in other words, that they were KLA soldiers
18 that had come from subzone 4 across the border to join up with Tahir
19 Zemaj, and then had come back over with them. Now, is that right? Were
20 there, in fact, people from the subzones who'd gone over the border to
21 become part of the FARK unit that came over?
22 THE INTERPRETER: Could the counsel kindly slow down, please.
23 JUDGE ORIE: Apart from that, Mr. Emmerson --
24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, that's true, especially from
25 the area of Irzniq, where Skender Rexhahmetaj was in control and part of
1 them joined the soldiers from FARK.
2 MR. EMMERSON: I'm sorry. Your Honour was going to raise an issue
3 with me.
4 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. You're referring to the statement. Where do we
5 find that statement so we can follow.
6 MR. EMMERSON: We can get a copy for Your Honour. I'm simply
7 putting the proposition to him at the moment.
8 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. I do understand, but the Chamber would
9 appreciate to get a copy.
10 MR. EMMERSON: Yes, of course.
11 Q. The proposition, though, is right that there were soldiers coming
12 from subzone 4 over the border to join with Tahir Zemaj's men and come in
13 under his control. Is that right?
14 A. No. The soldiers who were with Tahir Zemaj, they came from across
15 the border; but the other soldiers, that came from subzone number 4, they
16 joined the soldiers that came across from Albania. They did not go across
17 to Albania, but they joined the FARK soldiers when they arrived there.
18 Q. Thank you for that clarification. So that is at the beginning of
19 July. Is it the 8th or 9th of July?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. So this is now a blended force of officers from the fourth subzone
22 of the Dukagjini Staff who have blended in at your barracks under the
23 command of Tahir Zemaj?
24 A. Yes. Yes, that's correct. We were together.
25 Q. Now, in terms of the dispute between Ramush Haradinaj, on the one
1 hand, and Tahir Zemaj on the other, is it right that there was a
2 difference of opinion between them, which centred on whether the
3 military-trained officers who had come in with FARK should be dispersed to
4 the villages who had been fighting on the front lines?
5 A. I understand.
6 Q. Is that correct?
7 A. Look. Both on the part of Ramush and myself, we noticed that
8 Tahir Zemaj had come to the barracks of Prapaqan, and he -- he had found
9 everything that was available there. Tahir Zemaj, as a commander of FARK,
10 with all the soldiers, they mixed up with the soldiers from the KLA. And
11 up until the moment that he left on the 8th of September, there was
12 nothing that was achieved from him. It was Ramush Haradinaj who tried to
13 coordinate things at -- with the meeting in Prapaqan.
14 Q. I understand. But what I'm trying to be clear about with you,
15 just that you can make the position clear, if you will, to the Trial
16 Chamber. Is it correct that the essence of the disagreement between them
17 was about whether the trained officers that Zemaj brought in with him
18 should stay together and try to fight a conventional military war or
19 disperse among the villages within the existing structure of what was
20 essentially a guerilla force. Was that the difference of opinion?
21 A. Tahir Zemaj had the idea that we form operational brigades; and
22 when the Serbs attacked they can intervene, the brigades, and then come
23 back to base. But at that time that was impossible. So in the Dukagjin
24 area, there were very few career military officers. There were many
25 volunteers who were holding makeshift positions. And my opinion, as well
1 as Ramush and others, believed that we should distribute the trained
2 officers around at various points, rather than have them at a computer
3 base in Prapaqan.
4 But we would rather have them on the ground, on the front line,
5 where the proper defence was taking place. And this was a normal
6 diversity of views. There was disagreements between Tahir and Ramush and
7 myself, and many things evolved in that way.
8 Q. Can I just be clear, Prapaqan was the only proper barracks in the
9 whole of the area, was it not? It was your best facility?
10 A. It was the only centre. It was a makeshift centre in the form of
11 a school where we could do whatever we did. If you set up a form in a
12 school in another village, a similar one, the villagers feared that the
13 village would be attacked by the Serbs.
14 Q. The simple proposition that I'm putting to you, Mr. Tetaj, is that
15 Ramush Haradinaj allowed Tahir Zemaj to occupy the best training facility
16 that you had available in any one of the four subzones that you had. Is
17 that correct?
18 A. That's correct.
19 Q. Now, you've described the nature of --
20 A. It's very accurate.
21 Q. You've described the nature of the disagreement, and Mr. Re this
22 morning took you to two particular incidents that were referred to in your
23 witness statement; one, an incident in which a man called Idriz Ukehaxhaj
24 had been injured. You were told about that.
25 A. Idriz Ukehaxhaj, yes.
1 Q. And the second incident that's referred to in your witness
2 statement is an incident where Ramush Haradinaj turned up at the Prapaqan
3 centre and got very angry with the officers of FARK --
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. -- and expelled them from the Prapaqan centre for 24 hours before
6 allowing them back. Is that correct?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Now, first of all, can I ask you this: Apart from those two
9 incidents, to your knowledge, was there ever any other incident of
10 conflict; that is to say, violence between FARK officers and the KLA? Was
11 there ever any other fight between the two, apart from the two incidents
12 that you've described?
13 A. No. There was only these two incidents, and the first incident I
14 didn't see myself but I heard it being referred to Tahir. And in the
15 second one, I was there, both together with Ramush. And we were there
16 when Ramush spoke and I spoke. They left the barracks because they
17 admitted that they were not implementing the rules there at that moment,
18 at that time. Later on we agreed to rejoin, and I was the middleman, as
19 it were, at another meeting where we agreed to have them back.
20 Q. Now, in your witness statement, you suggest that that incident at
21 the barracks, the second of these two incidents where Ramush excluded the
22 FARK officers for 24 hours, you suggest that that happened sometime in
23 August. I'm going to suggest to you that your recollection of that is
24 wrong, and that it happened on the 10th of July.
25 A. I'm not sure about it. I apologise if I'm not accurate with that.
1 Q. It's not a memory test. I'm going to clarify the date with you in
2 a moment, if I may. But just to be clear about this. After that incident
3 occurred, first of all, Ramush spoke to the soldiers that were in the
4 Prapaqan barracks, and they were perfectly welcome to remain. Is that
6 A. That's correct.
7 Q. You then spoke to the soldiers.
8 A. Yes, that's correct. Yes, yes. I was there and I spoke after the
9 speech by Ramush, and I said something after that.
10 Q. And, in effect, was your message to the soldiers, "Look. We'll
11 sort these misunderstandings out?" In effect, was your message to the
12 soldiers that, "We would sort these misunderstandings out?"
13 A. Yes, that's correct.
14 Q. And later that same day, did you then bring the two sides together
15 at a meeting in Lluka?
16 A. Yes, that's correct.
17 Q. And was it all resolved that afternoon at the meeting in Lluka?
18 A. Yes, that's correct.
19 Q. If you could just look behind tab 10 for a moment, (redacted)
22 MR. EMMERSON: I think we need to go into closed session, if we
23 may, for a moment.
24 JUDGE ORIE: Madam Registrar.
25 [Private session]
11 Pages 3758-3761 redacted. Private session.
22 [Open session]
23 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we are back in open session.
24 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Madam Registrar.
25 Please proceed, Mr. Emmerson.
1 MR. EMMERSON:
2 Q. The request that you've just been looking at behind tab 11, so
3 that's P192, does that reflect a blending then under one command structure
4 of the commanders of the command as it was with the commanders of FARK?
5 JUDGE ORIE: Just for the record, Mr. Emmerson, it would be P193.
6 MR. EMMERSON: Oh.
7 JUDGE ORIE: At least on your list, but you also provided us with
8 a new list without any further explanation. I see that 11 there suddenly
9 is P192. So we'll now replace the old index by the new one.
10 MR. EMMERSON: Yes, I think there was an error, simply a
11 typographical error.
12 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Is there any other change in it or is this the
13 only one?
14 MR. EMMERSON: The only other additions, Your Honour, at items 12
15 and 14.
16 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
17 MR. EMMERSON: We have indicated the English translation
19 JUDGE ORIE: Okay.
20 MR. EMMERSON: Which are not in the original document.
21 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
22 MR. EMMERSON: Just for clarity then the correct reference is P192
23 for this list.
24 Q. Can I put the question to you again. Does that request by Tahir
25 Zemaj represent a blending between the commanders of -- who had come in
1 with him under the banner of FARK and the commanders of the subzones who
2 were already operating in the KLA structure?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Thank you. Now, if you could just look behind, very quickly,
5 behind tabs 12 to 17. If you could just flick through those briefly to
6 familiarise yourself with them. They work in pairs. Each of them is an
7 authorisation followed by an order, both of which are signed by Ramush
9 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. You're supposed to read the numbers of --
10 MR. EMMERSON: Yes.
11 JUDGE ORIE: -- of the MFI in the transcript, Mr. Emmerson.
12 MR. EMMERSON: Yes. So they will be P197 for tab 12; P199 for tab
13 13; 65 ter number 25 for tab 14, which will require to be marked for
15 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. It says also P194 in the new index.
16 MR. EMMERSON: I'm sorry. I'm corrected. It has been marked for
17 identification. It's P194.
18 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
19 MR. EMMERSON: It's one of those documents that appears twice with
20 different ERN numbers, so that is the confusion. Tab 14 is P194; tab 15
21 is P200; tab16, P198; and tab 17, P201.
22 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
23 MR. EMMERSON:
24 Q. Just to summarize, these are authorisations and orders dated the
25 11 and 12 of July, appointing the three brigades, which had then been
1 blended. Is that correct.
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And, in particular, if we look behind tab 12, for example, Ramush
4 Haradinaj authorises Tahir Zemaj to form a particular brigade?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Are you aware of a swearing-in ceremony that took place in Vranoc
7 on the 20th of July in which Ramush Haradinaj and Tahir Zemaj jointly
8 swore-in a large number of volunteers?
9 A. I was present there. I have also the medal at home. I was there
10 with Ramush and Tahir. It's true.
11 MR. EMMERSON: Your Honour, for the sake of the record, behind tab
12 18 is a transcript of a video of that swearing-in ceremony showing
13 Mr. Haradinaj and Mr. Zemaj together. I don't propose to play the video
14 because I will run out of my time if I do.
15 JUDGE ORIE: Would you like to have the transcript in evidence?
16 MR. EMMERSON: I think, if I may say so, it would be helpful to
17 have that recorded in evidence and given an MFI.
18 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Perhaps we do that now.
19 The transcript of swearing-in, Madam Registrar, which is 1D14/0031
20 would receive what number?
21 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that would be Exhibit D41 marked for
23 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you.
24 MR. EMMERSON: I should, obviously, make it clear. And it's in
25 the document, that this is the nature of a summary and a transcript. So
1 it cross-refers to the video counter to indicate the activity that's
2 taking place. And at some convenient moment, we would invite Your Honours
3 to look at the video, which has a date counter on it, to see the
4 swearing-in ceremony of the two.
5 JUDGE ORIE: You would not like that to be played but you would
6 like to have the video, as such, in evidence.
7 MR. EMMERSON: Yes, exactly. I don't propose to play it in this
8 witness's evidence because I'll run out of time if I do.
9 JUDGE ORIE: Therefore, Madam Registrar, it's not just the
10 transcript but it is the video as well. Please proceed.
11 MR. EMMERSON: I'm going to move on to another collection of
12 topics at this point. I'm entirely in Your Honours' hands when you would
13 like to take the next break.
14 JUDGE ORIE: Well, we ask, if you have another subject, for five
16 MR. EMMERSON: Yes.
17 JUDGE ORIE: But really five minutes.
18 MR. EMMERSON: Yes.
19 JUDGE ORIE: And I will stop you this document because we are very
20 often talking about interpreters' duties, we are very often talking about
21 technicians, but also transcribers, I would not like to have my fingers
22 under such stress for such time, and security, et cetera.
23 I will stop you if you have not finished by quarter to technical.
24 MR. EMMERSON: I'll stop slightly shy of that.
25 Q. Two short questions, if I can. First of all, you were asked this
1 morning about two different versions that you had heard about the death of
2 two Serbs, one called Slobodan and one called Milos in Dashinoc or
3 Dasinovac. And you told us in answer to Mr. Re that one of the accounts
4 that you had heard had come to you directly from the person who was there,
5 Deli Lekaj. Is that right?
6 A. No. Deli Lekaj was injured. I went to visit him. He told me
7 that -- I don't know which of them injured him. So there should not be
8 any misunderstanding. He was injured, and then he told me what had
9 happened. However, they were both alive when they did talk to me [as
10 interpreted]. I don't know. There could be several versions about these
11 two people. One version was they went to Prilep. They were released by
12 Ramush. There was another version that they were in Dashinoc.
13 So there were different variants. There were suppositions. I
14 don't want to manipulate what happened. I cannot tell you that this one
15 is true and this one is false. I also heard about Lahi Brahimaj, who
16 burned [as interpreted] them, but this was only hearsay --
17 Q. I think the --
18 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Tetaj --
19 MR. EMMERSON: I think "burned" may be a mistranslation or a
20 mistranscription. I think the witness's evidence was "buried" rather than
22 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No, they were not burnt. They were
24 dead and then they were buried.
25 JUDGE ORIE: That's clear. At the same time, could you seek
1 clarification, Mr. Emmerson, where he said: "However, they were both
2 alive when they did talk to me."
3 MR. EMMERSON: Yes.
4 MR. HARVEY: Your Honours.
5 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
6 MR. HARVEY: At that point, I think there is an error in the
7 transcript I heard: "When Deli talked to me." And it came out as, "they
9 MR. EMMERSON: That was my understanding as well, but I can seek
11 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
12 MR. EMMERSON:
13 Q. Can I put it to you this way, Mr. Tetaj, is it right that there
14 were a lot of different rumours circulating, first of all?
15 A. That's true.
16 Q. But you did manage to speak to one of the people who'd actually
17 been involved in an exchange of fire with these two men, is that correct?
18 A. Yes, that's true. He was injured. He was injured by Slobodan,;
19 and when I talked to Deli, Slobodan was alive.
20 Q. Pause there. How do you know that Slobodan was alive when you
21 spoke to Deli?
22 A. Because the doctor intervened, Syl Berisha, then people told me
23 that they were free. They were seen on the way to Prilep.
24 Q. I see. I see. Concentrating on the conversation with --
25 concentrating on the conversation with Deli Lekaj for a moment, did you
1 see his injury?
2 A. Yes, I did.
3 Q. Could you recognise it as a gun-shot wound?
4 A. Yes, I saw the wound. That's true.
5 Q. I'm sorry. I think we may have got slightly out of sequence.
6 Could you recognise the wound as a gun-shot wound?
7 A. He told me the -- he talked to me about the wound. The doctor
8 also told me that it was a gun-shot wound, but I didn't see. That is what
9 I remember.
10 Q. Very well. And later on, after the subzones were established at
11 the end of May, Deli Lekaj became one of the officers who was under your
12 immediate command, didn't he, in Lumbardh?
13 A. That's correct.
14 Q. Yes. Thank you. We're just about to take a break.
15 MR. EMMERSON: I wonder to save time, if I might ask the witness,
16 during the break, to cast his eye over some paragraphs in the document
17 that appears at tab 20 so that we can save time over the break, if that's
18 acceptable to Your Honour.
19 JUDGE ORIE: I take it, Mr. Re, that there's no objection against
21 Tab 20, are you intending to tender that because it's not assigned
22 a number yet?
23 MR. EMMERSON: May I see how the witness's evidence emerges, and
24 then make submissions on that once I hear his answers?
25 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
1 MR. EMMERSON:
5 JUDGE ORIE: You found this, Mr. Tetaj.
6 JUDGE HOEPFEL: First, it is in English and then it is in
8 MR. EMMERSON: I said tab 10, and I should have said tab 20.
9 That's the confusion.
10 JUDGE HOEPFEL: I think you said 20.
11 MR. EMMERSON: Did I?
12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Number 20, yes.
13 MR. EMMERSON:
16 MR. RE: Before my friend goes on, Mr. Emmerson goes on, there are
17 some issues involved here.
18 JUDGE ORIE: Well, I asked whether there was any objection against
19 the witness to read. I would expect Mr. Emmerson just to point at, not to
20 summarize or in any other way, but just to say please read this and this.
21 MR. EMMERSON: Paragraphs 7 to 10 is what I wanted to ask witness
22 to look at.
23 JUDGE ORIE: Would that be a problem for you, Mr. Re?
24 MR. RE: Not if he expresses it that way.
25 JUDGE ORIE: Then, Mr. Tetaj, would you find during the break an
1 opportunity to read in your own language paragraph 7 up to and including
2 10 so that Mr. Emmerson can ask questions about the matter after the
3 break. Yes?
4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.
5 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you. Then let's break and resume at five
6 minutes past.
7 MR. RE: Your Honours.
8 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
9 MR. RE: Before you leave the bench, can I raise something in the
10 absence of the witness?
11 JUDGE ORIE: In the absence of the witness.
12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Do I take it with me?
13 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, if you would be so kind as to read paragraphs 7
14 to 10 and Madam Usher will escort you out of the courtroom.
15 Mr. Re, you would like to go into private session?
16 [Private session]
11 Pages 3772-3773 redacted. Private session.
6 [Open session]
7 --- On resuming at 1.13 p.m.
8 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Re, as far as the translation of P140 is
9 concerned, your silence on the new translation introduced, I took that as
10 consent to have the provisional translation also taken out of the system.
11 MR. RE: You read my silence correctly there.
12 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
13 Please proceed, Mr. Emmerson.
14 MR. EMMERSON: Given the concerns that were raised just before the
15 break, I think I ought to conduct this part of my cross-examination in
16 private session, provisionally, at least.
17 JUDGE ORIE: Madam Registrar, could we go into private session.
18 [Private session]
11 Pages 3775-3777 redacted. Private session.
5 [Open session]
6 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're back in open session.
7 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Madam Registrar.
8 MR. EMMERSON:
9 Q. I want to ask you now one or two questions about another instance,
10 in which you say that Ramush Haradinaj tried to intervene, and that is the
11 case of Skender Kuci. First of all, you told us yesterday, I think, that
12 when you came to tell Ramush Haradinaj that Skender Kuci had been
13 detained, he knew nothing of it. Is that your evidence?
14 A. Yes. I discussed about this with Ramush. Ramush was very sad
15 about such a gesture. He told me, "Wait a minute," and then we took a
16 car. Together we went, as I described yesterday. I could confirm that
17 for the first time he learned about this from me. This was the contact
18 which actually gave to him information about what had happened.
19 Q. And your recollection is that on arrival and in conversation with
20 Nazmi Brahimaj, Ramush Haradinaj tried to secure this man's immediate
21 release by directing him to be released straight away. Is that correct?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Now, you said that you continued to make inquiries about Skender
24 Kuci, and that you learnt that he'd been taken to the hospital at Irzniq,
25 is that correct, at a later stage?
1 A. That person came. This happened later, after two or three days --
2 Q. Yes.
3 A. -- he was not released. So they told me that he was not released,
4 and I made inquiries together with Nazmi. We went to Jablanica. There we
5 met with Nazmi Brahimaj. Nazmi was very desperate about this case. He
6 expressed his condolences. He told us that there was an ambulance in the
7 village of Irzniq to provide assistance; however, nothing could be done
8 and he died. So he was taken back from the hospital to Irzniq, where he
9 was buried.
10 Q. There may be some confusion in the last answer that you've given.
11 I want to clarify two words if I may. You say there was an ambulance in
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Are you referring -- just so we're clearer, are you referring to a
15 makeshift field hospital?
16 A. Yes, makeshift field hospital. It was not a hospital in the
17 proper sense of the world.
18 Q. But it wasn't a vehicle? The word "ambulance" in English means a
19 moving vehicle. It wasn't a vehicle. It was a building?
20 A. No, no. There were some nurses and some doctors in this place.
21 It was a makeshift field hospital which was there and was operating under
22 extraordinary circumstances.
23 JUDGE HOEPFEL: May I ask where was that hospital?
24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes. In the village of Irzniq in
25 Dodaj of that village.
1 JUDGE HOEPFEL: Thank you.
2 MR. EMMERSON: Thank you.
3 Q. And just to pick up another answer that I think may have been
4 misunderstood at line 24, 25 on page 89, you say there that Nazmi told you
5 that there was an ambulance; however, nothing could be done and he died.
6 So he was taken back from the hospital to Irzniq where he was buried. Did
7 you mean to say that he was taken to Irzniq, where he was buried, or that
8 he was taken to Jablanica, where he was buried?
9 A. Yes, that is so. When he was alive, he was sent to that hospital,
10 where he died. And from the hospital, he was taken back to Jablanica,
11 where he was buried. That is the sequence of events.
12 Q. Could you now look behind tab 22 where we have the statement of
13 doctor who treated him at the field hospital in Irzniq. We do not have
14 this, I'm afraid to say, in Albanian. So I'm going to have to read to you
15 the passage in English. It's behind tab 23. I'm noticing that we don't
16 have an Albanian translation of that particular statement. So let me just
17 read you the passage it's on paragraph 8. Just bear with me, I will read
18 it to you slowly in English, and they will translate it to you so you can
19 listen to it.
20 This is a statement of Haki Shehu, who is a doctor at Irzniq
21 hospital, specialising in internal injuries.
22 A. Of Irzniq.
23 Q. This is about nine lines into paragraph 8: "Kuci was brought
24 inside, and I made the first examination of his health conditions. I
25 could not see any open wounds, and he was in a state of delirium. He was
1 disoriented and not able to communicate. At the first look, he had
2 symptoms of a person who had kidney problems because he had a swollen
3 face, swollen feet, and swollen hands. Later on it was found that he had
4 a kidney failure, and that both kidneys were completely blocked. Besides
5 this I could recognise signs of cyanosis or bruises on his legs."
6 I'll pause.
7 "Signs of cyanosis are caused by injuries, heart dysfunction,
8 beaten, or staying in conditions such as a cold or wet environment. The
9 causes might vary but I don't know what it was in this specific case. The
10 reason for the kidney failure of Kuci may have several reasons. Perhaps
11 he had experienced a situation of shock. Maybe he suffered from low blood
12 pressure or other illness. We did everything we could for him, but in
13 fact he would have needed dialysis with CAPD which is a special liquid for
14 these extreme kidney problems."
15 I'll pause.
16 "Unfortunately, we did not have this liquid. I did not see any
17 other signs of injuries on his body. I can't evaluate the causes of his
18 bruises, as we did not know at this point of time."
19 Now, pausing there, there are two things I want to ask you. First
20 of all, from the inquiries that you made, was it your understanding that
21 he was still alive when he arrived at the hospital?
22 A. Yes, that's correct. The problems were related to his kidneys,
23 and the hospital did not have the instruments and the means to cure it.
24 This was confirmed to me by Nazmi. And I went there simply to find out if
25 I could help, but there I was told that he had died and then I was
1 starting to ask what had gone wrong.
2 And what you read out was confirmed to me by Nazmi Brahimaj, and
3 he was very sad about the whole thing. And they were just in front of a
4 fact, and they had to act after that. Ramiz Berisha, who was there with
5 me, said that we would like to unter him and re-bury him near his house,
6 and Nazmi agreed to that.
7 Q. I'm going to stop you there just because I'm working against the
8 clock. Can you answer my next question yes or no. From the conversations
9 you had with his family, did you become aware that Skender Kuci had a
10 pre-existing kidney condition from a long time previously? Is that
11 something that you found out or not?
12 A. I have never had such conversation with his family.
13 Q. Very well. That's helpful.
14 Third question: Was it your understanding also that he had no
15 wounds to his body; in other words, no open wounds on his body? Was that
16 also your understanding?
17 A. The only thing that I knew was that when was untered, his corpse
18 was untered, he was covered by soil, and I couldn't see any signs of open
19 wounds. It was an overall bruising of the body.
20 Q. In particular, Mr. Tetaj, there is a person, whose name I won't
21 mention at this stage, who has made a witness statement --
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. -- claiming to have seen Skender Kuci with his kidney outside his
24 bodies, having been ripped from inside and lying on the outside of his
25 body. Now, I'm going to suggest to you that that is completely
1 inconsistent, both with the medical report and with what you found out at
2 the time.
3 A. No. That's not correct. That's not true. His body was one whole
4 piece, but it was like black. It was a dark colour. I've seen it with my
5 own eyes. It held all the pieces, and it was all in one piece. All the
6 organs were there.
7 Q. Thank you.
8 A. And there I could see no kidney outside his body, and his family
9 knows this; his wife, one of his closest loved ones.
10 Q. I understand that, and it's not a member of his family that I'm
11 referring to. It's someone quite different.
12 Last couple of questions, if I may.
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. I want to ask you about a family who lived in Turjake,
16 A. Turjake.
17 Q. You know the village of Turjake, and I want to ask you about a man
18 called Istref Krasniqi. Pause for a moment, and I want to see if I can
19 refresh your memory about Istref Krasniqi. Were you at one point in the
20 summer of 1998, did you visit a family in Turjake who had become involved
21 in a blood feud with another family in Turjake?
22 A. That's correct. I have been to Turjake with the aim of expanding
23 our operational zone so we could expand our operations; and in the
24 village, there was several problems between the various quarters of the
25 village. And I was there at the end of the village, where I saw a person
1 who was immobile - that's what I've seen - and with wounds.
2 Q. Just pause there for a moment. We'll come back to the person.
3 A. I cannot remember the first name, but I knew that he was Krasniqi
4 by family name.
5 Q. In fact, is it right to say, in Turjake, there were two sets of
6 blood feuds going on: One between two families who were both called
7 Krasniqi, and one between a family of a man who was called Smajl Gashi and
8 another family. And you were there trying to persuade these people to put
9 their differences aside, is that right, in the interests of unity?
10 A. That's quite right. That's quite correct.
11 Q. And just to sketch in a little more of the detail, can you confirm
12 that in the case of Istref Krasniqi, the blood feud had involved the
13 situation where a few years earlier, Istref Krasniqi, his son Imer, and
14 his daughter had all been sent to prison for murdering a man called
15 Muharem Gjocaj because they thought that Muharem Gjocaj was going to try
16 to elope with a member of their family. Does that accord with your
18 A. I cannot confirm anything about this. I can't remember.
19 Q. Very well.
20 A. But I knew they had problems.
21 Q. Very well. In simple terms, then, let me put it this way: Were
22 you aware that with the Krasniqi family, members of their family had
23 killed members of the other Krasniqi family and revenge had been taken on
24 them. There was a blood feud going on between the two Krasniqi families.
25 Is that something you were aware of and trying to resolve?
1 A. There was a blood feud, yes, that's correct. But what was the
2 basis for it, I did not have time to get into the detail.
3 Q. Very well. Has anybody ever mentioned to you, anybody on the
4 Prosecution team, for example, that it's alleged against you that you were
5 responsible for the abduction of Istref Krasniqi, whose name is mentioned
6 on this indictment?
7 Has Mr. Re ever told you that or Ms. Gustafson that you are
8 suggested to have been responsible for the abduction of Istref Krasniqi?
9 A. No. I only know from a book written by Tahir Zemaj, where it is
10 said that I was accused of this. What I've done is I helped that family.
11 I took flour to that family to help them, and there are numerous people in
12 that village who testified to that. They were in serious -- in a serious
13 blood feud, and there was nothing to stop them from killing each other.
14 Q. I don't think there's any dispute that they were in a blood feud.
15 I think the family themselves say so, but I want to ask you this: Has
16 none of the Prosecution team ever asked you about this incident, or put to
17 you that you were responsible for the disappearance of Istref and Nurije
19 A. During my first visit, I, myself, raised the issue because I
20 wanted to clarify my position. I insisted; they didn't ask. But I
21 insisted to clarify this because I read it in Tahir Zemaj's book. But
22 recently, no, I haven't been asked or told.
23 Q. Was there any -- that's an answer I need to follow-up, because
24 there's no mention in the written witness statement that you made in 2002
25 of this incident. So when you told the investigators about it in 2002,
1 did they say anything to you about whether it should be recorded in your
2 statement, what you were saying about Istref Krasniqi, or did they simply
3 suggest to you that it should be left out?
4 A. They did not insist on such an element, as far as I remember. As
5 far as I remember, it was very little discussed.
6 Q. Are you aware that one of the murders alleged on this indictment
7 relates to those two individuals in Count 22? Were you aware of that
8 before you came into court today? Did you know that?
9 A. No, I don't know. I don't know about this. No idea.
10 Q. Thank you.
11 MR. EMMERSON: Those are my questions, Your Honour. I've
12 concluded my cross-examination.
13 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Thank you, Mr. Emmerson.
14 Mr. Tetaj, we --
15 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.
16 JUDGE ORIE: -- could not finish today, so tomorrow we'll
17 continue, also in the morning at 9.00, in this same courtroom. I, again,
18 instruct you not to speak with anyone about the testimony you have given
19 already or you're still about to give. Tomorrow you'll be cross-examined
20 by counsel for the other defendants, and there may be more questions from
21 the Bench or from Mr. Re.
22 We stand adjourned until tomorrow, the 9th of May, 9.00, same
24 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.45 p.m.,
25 to be reconvened on Wednesday, the 9th day of
1 May, 2007, at 9.00 a.m.