1 Monday, 18 June 2001
2 [Status Conference]
3 [Open session]
4 [The appellant entered court]
5 --- Upon commencing at 3.58 p.m.
6 JUDGE POCAR: This Status Conference is called to order. Madam
7 Registrar, can you call the case.
8 THE REGISTRAR: Case number IT-95-10-A, the Prosecutor versus Goran
10 JUDGE POCAR: Well, let me call for the appearances. Present for
11 the Prosecution?
12 MR. YAPA: May it please Your Honour, I'm Upawansa Yapa. I appear
13 for the Prosecution.
14 JUDGE POCAR: Thanks. I note that for the accused -- for the
15 appellant, Mr. Jelisic, there was an arrangement to hear counsel,
16 Mr. Clegg, by phone link. I understand the link is difficult to
17 establish, or may I have information on whether we can establish the link
18 or not?
19 Thank you, Madam Registrar. I understand it's still not possible
20 to have Mr. Clegg on the phone, and since he is not available where he
21 should have been, so I don't know how we should proceed now with the
22 Status Conference.
23 I would ask Mr. Jelisic, Mr. Jelisic, I see your counsel,
24 Mr. Clegg, is not available on the phone link. Therefore, I would like to
25 ask you if you want to proceed to have the Status Conference
1 notwithstanding the absence of your counsel, because the law, the Statute,
2 allows you to defend yourself in person, but of course, you are not
3 requested to do it.
4 You can say that you do not want to proceed without your counsel,
5 I want to be quite clear on that. You may accept to proceed to the Status
6 Conference in the absence of your counsel, but it is your full right to
7 say that you want your counsel. In that case, we will postpone the Status
8 Conference, adjourn it, and have it another day.
9 Is that very clear to you, the option you have?
10 THE APPELLANT: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour, for
11 allowing me to speak. I don't know what to say to you. I find myself in
12 a very embarrassing situation. I don't know if I refuse this Status
13 Conference whether I will give rise to problems for the Chamber and for
14 the Registry and the Prosecution, so I leave it up to you.
15 JUDGE POCAR: Thank you, Mr. Jelisic. There will be certainly no
16 problem in the sense that I will proceed that way: If you prefer to have
17 the Status Conference with the assistance of your counsel, I will adjourn
18 now and put the Status Conference on another day, trying to remain within
19 the 120 days. I could have it on Thursday, for instance, this week, and
20 try in the meantime to have your counsel available for that moment, your
21 counsel or your co-counsel, I mean one of the two.
22 THE APPELLANT: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.
23 JUDGE POCAR: So I understand you prefer to postpone the Status
25 THE APPELLANT: [Interpretation] No, no. I leave it up to you. We
12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and
13 English transcripts.
1 can continue.
2 JUDGE POCAR: Mr. Jelisic, I do not think that you can leave it up
3 to me. I mean, let me try to be more specific. The Statute, in line with
4 international human rights standards, says that the accused has the right
5 to defend himself in person or to defend himself through the legal
6 assistance of his counsel.
7 Now, the choice is up to you. You have the right to be assisted
8 by counsel, and you have the right to proceed without counsel, but the
9 choice, I cannot make it for you. If you leave it up to me, I will not
10 proceed in the absence of your counsel necessarily, because it's you who
11 exercises the right to proceed without the counsel or to proceed with the
12 counsel. I must leave it up to you, unfortunately.
13 THE APPELLANT: [Interpretation] In that case, I do not wish the
14 Status Conference to be held without my counsel present.
15 JUDGE POCAR: I thank you, Mr. Jelisic. I accept that. And in
16 that case, I will adjourn this Status Conference, but before that I think
17 we should ask Mr. Clegg an explanation why, after having made an
18 appointment, he didn't -- was not available at that appointment, phone
19 link. So we should proceed that way, but I wanted to put it on record.
20 And I will now adjourn, and I think we can have the Status Conference
21 maybe in two or three days.
22 Mr. Jelisic?
23 THE APPELLANT: [Interpretation] Your Honour, as you have touched
24 upon the question of Mr. Clegg, I think that at this moment Mr. Clegg is
25 in charge of three cases and that he's ignoring my case, and that this is
1 very irresponsible from counsel. So if you can influence him and get him
2 to appear the next time and give an explanation, I would be very grateful.
3 JUDGE POCAR: Yes, Mr. Jelisic. That's exactly what I propose to
4 do, to ask a specific explanation as to why he did not -- he's not
5 available when he should have been now. And of course, I hope it's not
6 the case that he's not taking care of your case. I hope not. In any
7 case, we will have an explanation from Mr. Clegg on what happened. Maybe
8 it's something that is outside his control. I mean, it's also possible.
9 Well, the meeting stands -- the hearing stands adjourned, and I
10 will make a Scheduling Order for the Status Conference.
11 --- Whereupon the Status Conference adjourned at
12 4.09 p.m.