1. 1 Tuesday, 9th November, 1999

    2 [Closed session]

    3 [The accused present in court]

    4 --- Upon commencing at 10.38 a.m.

    5 (redacted)

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    12 [Open session]

    13 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] We are now in

    14 open session, Your Honour.

    15 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] Thank you very

    16 much.

    17 How do things stand from the technical point

    18 of view?

    19 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Right, Your

    20 Honour. I think everything is ready, technically

    21 speaking.

    22 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] All right.

    23 Mr. Greaves, you have the floor. Who is the

    24 witness you are about to call to the stand?

    25 MR. GREAVES: Witness DL, and the name which

  2. 1 you are about to see on that sheet is the correct

    2 name.

    3 Has he arrived?

    4 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Yes. The

    5 witness is sitting at the table. He's ready.

    6 MR. GREAVES: It's not immediately obvious to

    7 me. I'm sorry. I do apologise, Your Honour.


    9 [Witness answered through interpreter]

    10 [Witness testified via videolink]

    11 Examined by Mr. Greaves:

    12 Q. Witness DL, I would like to ask you some

    13 questions, please, about Goran Jelisic, but first of

    14 all, can you tell Their Honours what your ethnic

    15 background is?

    16 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] The witness

    17 should first take the oath, I think.

    18 MR. GREAVES: Of course, Your Honour. I'm

    19 sorry.

    20 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] I think that's

    21 what we have to do first. I'm the one who should

    22 apologise, because I should have thought of it sooner.

    23 But I see that the legal officer of the Chamber is

    24 sending me some brain waves, and I'm well aware of what

    25 I should be doing right now. Actually, I should be

  3. 1 asking the witness to take the oath.

    2 Mr. Registrar, what is the situation?

    3 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] There is a

    4 slight technical problem. Let's hope it is going to be

    5 short-lived. The technical booth has just told me that

    6 things should be settled in a minute.

    7 MR. NICE: While the technical point is being

    8 resolved, can I express my concern at the fact that it

    9 appears, from the way the screen looks at the moment,

    10 that we are now ourselves even to see the face of this

    11 witness. It's one thing for the face to be distorted

    12 so far as the general public is concerned, but I had no

    13 idea, and maybe Mr. Greaves didn't either, that the

    14 face was to be distorted from all of us. It's

    15 impossible for the Trial Chamber or for the advocates

    16 to make any assessment of the witness who is entirely

    17 blanked out.

    18 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] Of course,

    19 evidently.

    20 Mr. Registrar, how should we go about this?

    21 I don't understand what's happening myself, because in

    22 other cases where we had videolink conference, we could

    23 see the face of the witness.

    24 Now, in the order that was issued by the

    25 Chamber, maybe it was specified that there should be

  4. 1 face distortion devices used, but these measures apply

    2 to the public. Think about what was done yesterday.

    3 Witnesses came into the room, their face was distorted

    4 when the images were sent to the public gallery, but

    5 that does not apply here because we, the Judges and the

    6 advocates, have to be able to see the face of the

    7 witness. If we can't see the face of the witness,

    8 anything can happen, basically. We don't know who is

    9 in front of us. We have to make sure that the

    10 protective measures are ensured, but I think the best

    11 thing to do is to suspend the hearing for a few

    12 minutes.

    13 --- Recess taken at 10.44 a.m.

    14 --- On resuming at 11.18 a.m.

    15 [Closed session]

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    13 pages 2477-2512 redacted - closed session













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    12 --- Luncheon recess taken at 1.06 p.m.














  2. 1 --- On resuming at 2.54 p.m.












    13 pages 2514-2554 redacted - closed session













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    21 --- Recess taken at 4.23 p.m.

    22 [The witness entered court]

    23 --- On resuming at 4.35 p.m.

    24 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] The hearing is

    25 resumed. Please be seated.

  2. 1 Can the accused be brought in, please.

    2 [The accused entered court]

    3 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] So as not to

    4 delay the testimony of the witness, who is right here

    5 in front of us, let us at once resume his direct

    6 examination. Then we'll go back to the issue that was

    7 raised earlier, i.e., the reason why the fourth witness

    8 which was planned to testify via videolink will not do

    9 so. But let us just continue with the present witness,

    10 Witness DK, I believe. Is that right, Mr. Registrar?

    11 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Yes, indeed,

    12 Your Honour, Witness DK.

    13 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] Mr. Greaves,

    14 you have the floor.

    15 WITNESS: WITNESS DK [Resumed]

    16 Examined by Mr. Greaves:

    17 Q. Witness DK, what was the last date in May

    18 1992 when you saw the defendant, Goran Jelisic?

    19 A. The last day in 1992 was the 11th of May;

    20 that's when I saw him last.

    21 Q. Subsequently, did you hear from any source of

    22 any rumours concerning Goran Jelisic?

    23 A. Yes, I did. Sometime in mid-August, I heard

    24 that Goran Jelisic had been wounded and that the

    25 Serbian authorities wanted to kill him and were looking

  3. 1 for him.

    2 Q. Witness DK, I would like to turn now, please,

    3 to June of this year. On the 5th of June of this year,

    4 did you go to the Republic of Croatia?

    5 A. Yes, I did. Yes, I did go.

    6 Q. Did you visit somebody in Croatia?

    7 A. Yes. I visited the Catholic priest in a

    8 place called Vitansjneslon [phoen], which is near

    9 Karlovac, below Karlovac. We visited the priest,

    10 because he had been in Brcko before the war and the war

    11 found him in Brcko. And later on he moved, and so we

    12 went to see him there.

    13 Q. And did you have a conversation with him?

    14 A. I'm not getting the interpretation loudly

    15 enough. Could the volume be put up, please? Perhaps

    16 the microphone needs to be moved or something like

    17 that. A little louder, please.

    18 I can hear you now, yes. Thank you.

    19 Q. Did he tell you something that had happened

    20 to him in May 1992?

    21 A. Yes, he did. Do you want me to tell you what

    22 he said, or shall I wait for you to ask?

    23 Q. What did he tell you about? In general

    24 terms, what was it about?

    25 A. It was about the fact that this priest -- I'm

  4. 1 a Catholic myself, a Roman Catholic, but this priest

    2 had been in Brcko, and sometime between the 3rd and 5th

    3 of May, five masked soldiers turned up at his place and

    4 took him off to the SUP building in Brcko, the Internal

    5 Affairs secretariat and the police. That is the

    6 building where both of these organisations are.

    7 And he was held there for four days. He was

    8 kept then. They asked him for some money. Whether he

    9 didn't want to give them any money or whatever, but he

    10 spent four days in prison there.

    11 And a major, I think his name was Peric, sent

    12 him home on the seventh day and told him to bring back

    13 the money. And he was given ten minutes to take his

    14 necessary belongings and to come back to the SUP

    15 building, and this is what he did.

    16 Q. Just pause there. Whilst he was detained at

    17 the SUP building, did he tell you of any threats to him

    18 that were made?

    19 A. Yes, he did. He said that he was threatened,

    20 that they threatened to beat him and other things too,

    21 and I think that's what happened.

    22 Q. Did he tell you whether he had gone home for

    23 this money?

    24 A. Yes. He said he had gone to fetch the money,

    25 escorted by a soldier, and that he came back ten

  5. 1 minutes later, he went back to the SUP building.

    2 Q. Having returned to the SUP building, was he

    3 able to leave it again? Did he tell you that?

    4 A. He couldn't leave, but he said that that

    5 particular major, Major Peric, sent him to Bijeljina,

    6 to a priest in Bijeljina, escorted by Goran Jelisic and

    7 another soldier nicknamed Sok. So these two escorted

    8 him to Bijeljina, and they thought that they would

    9 liquidate him on the way there.

    10 Q. Did he give any account to you as to how he

    11 was treated by Goran Jelisic during the course of that

    12 day?

    13 A. Yes. He told us everything as things evolved

    14 and that he was at the house of the Major. Goran

    15 Jelisic went out to have a fruit juice. He said he

    16 didn't want any, and the priest sat as a co-driver.

    17 And I forget to say that this man nicknamed Sok had a

    18 Kalishnikoff automatic rifle with him, and they went

    19 towards Bijeljina. Goran Jelisic addressed him as

    20 "Father." His conduct towards him was extremely

    21 proper, and he transferred him -- he placed him in the

    22 care of the priest in Bijeljina.

    23 Q. And did he have any complaint at all about

    24 the conduct of Goran Jelisic or, indeed, the other man

    25 towards him?

  6. 1 A. No, he had no complaints and said he was

    2 surprised by their conduct, that they were very proper

    3 towards him.

    4 MR. GREAVES: Thank you, Witness DK. Would

    5 you be so kind as to wait there and answer any

    6 questions which are put to you.

    7 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] Yes. The

    8 Prosecutor will now ask you a few questions,

    9 Witness DK. I'm sure you've been informed of that.

    10 Mr. Nice, the floor is yours.

    11 MR. NICE: Thank you very much.

    12 Cross-examined by Mr. Nice:

    13 Q. Just dealing with the priest, the priest was

    14 a Catholic priest?

    15 A. Yes, he was, in Brcko, before the war.

    16 Q. You saw him in the summer of this year?

    17 A. That's right. He's in Brcko again now.

    18 Q. He's fit and well and able to travel?

    19 A. He's healthy, he's well, he's able to travel,

    20 but he did not want to promise us that he would give

    21 any statement, make any written statement or anything

    22 else, because the laws of the church forbid it.

    23 Q. Who is the "us" that you referred to in that

    24 last answer?

    25 A. No, we -- we asked whether he would make a

  7. 1 written statement or testify in court, any court, in an

    2 office, to the International Court or this

    3 distinguished Tribunal, and he said, no, because it is

    4 a long procedure and he would have to ask permission

    5 from the church authorities. I don't know what they

    6 are called.

    7 Q. You say "we." Have you been involved in

    8 gathering the evidence for this defendant that you use

    9 the word "we"?

    10 A. I was asked by a lawyer that I should hear

    11 where that priest is, and I heard from my colleague,

    12 who has some in-laws who -- and they said that the

    13 priest was in Slunj, or Vitanci, or whatever the place

    14 is called near Slunj, and so we went to visit him; that

    15 is to say, I, myself, and Mr. Londrovic.

    16 Q. And so it's you and Mr. Londrovic who have

    17 been trying to get the evidence, is it?

    18 A. Well, that's how it was.

    19 Q. Why are you so involved in the Defence of

    20 Jelisic when you only met him for two days?

    21 A. I'm not taking part in the Defence. I just

    22 wish to state the truth about Jelisic as I know it, and

    23 I am telling the truth.

    24 Q. You saw the man for about two days, didn't

    25 you?

  8. 1 A. About four, about four days.

    2 Q. I repeat: Why are you so involved in his

    3 Defence if you only knew the man for a few, you say,

    4 four days?

    5 A. Well, I said that the family's in our

    6 neighbourhood. I didn't know what Goran Jelisic was

    7 doing; nor did he tell me. If Goran Jelisic has these

    8 people on his conscience, then he should be held

    9 responsible. But if anybody forced Goran Jelisic to

    10 perform the acts he did, then it would be necessary for

    11 Goran Jelisic to state those names so that those people

    12 could be held accountable.

    13 Q. And as you understand it, Witness DK, people

    14 did force Jelisic to do these killings; that's right,

    15 isn't it?

    16 A. I do consider that somebody ordered him to

    17 perform those acts. And Goran is a young man. He

    18 probably didn't understand. Of course, nobody must

    19 take anybody's life. That is my opinion, and I shall

    20 always stand by it.

    21 Q. I'm going to come back and give you a chance

    22 to tell us more detail of the pressure that was put on

    23 Jelisic a little later.

    24 MR. NICE: May we have a necessary private

    25 session to deal with matters of identification? I'm

  9. 1 going to ask the witness to look at a map, but I

    2 hope -- there's nobody in the public gallery. If the

    3 matter can be dealt with swiftly, so much the better.

    4 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] Yes, but

    5 whatever the case, we should go into private session.

    6 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] We are now in

    7 private session.

    8 [Private session]

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    13 pages 2564-2585 redacted - private session













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    4 [Open session]

    5 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] Thank you,

    6 Judge Riad.

    7 We're now going back into open session, but,

    8 sir, you are still benefiting from the protective

    9 measures you've been benefiting from since the very

    10 beginning of your testimony.

    11 Now Judge Rodrigues will ask you a number of

    12 questions.

    13 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.

    14 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Witness DK,

    15 you have just told my colleague, Judge Riad, that you

    16 had seen Mr. Jelisic during four days?

    17 A. Yes, that's right.

    18 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Right. I

    19 seem to remember hearing you saying that on the very

    20 first day, on the 8th of May, you had spent about 10 to

    21 15 minutes with him. Am I right?

    22 A. You're right. Our meeting was never longer

    23 when he came, stopped by with the girl. It wasn't more

    24 than 10 to 15 minutes, a coffee and a walk. He had his

    25 business to attend to. I'm a pensioner. That was how

  2. 1 it was.

    2 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] So you

    3 spent about 10 to 15 minutes with him, and is that the

    4 amount of time you spent with him every day during

    5 those four days?

    6 A. About that long, 15 to 20 minutes. He never

    7 stayed longer, because he walked around with his

    8 girlfriend. They went to Bijeljina. It was May. They

    9 walked around. Unfortunately, it was a day of sunshine

    10 and flowers, but Brcko had a day of mourning.

    11 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] I also seem

    12 to remember you saying that the last time you saw Mr.

    13 Jelisic was May the 11th. Is that correct?

    14 A. Well, between the 10th and 11th of May, I saw

    15 him. You know, seven years have gone by since then.

    16 And as I said, on that occasion, he was nervous and

    17 sad, if I can say that, and not in a good mood, and

    18 that's when we had the talks.

    19 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] After that

    20 particular date, after May the 11th, have you ever had

    21 the opportunity to meet Mr. Jelisic again or did you

    22 never see him after that?

    23 A. I never met him again. I never saw him

    24 again, but I heard what I told you about in August,

    25 that they were looking for him and wanted to kill him

  3. 1 and that he was wounded. But he can tell you about

    2 that, because I didn't actually see it, so I don't want

    3 to claim anything I didn't see.

    4 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] So

    5 according to you, Mr. Jelisic did not come back on the

    6 12th, on the 13th, or on the 14th or the 15th, he did

    7 not come back because he followed your advice and

    8 escaped and ran away?

    9 A. I think that that's precisely what happened.

    10 And he should have listened to my advice, because who

    11 can be allowed to kill people, I ask you.

    12 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] But you are

    13 well aware of the fact that on the 18th of May, on the

    14 20th of May, he did kill people.

    15 But okay. I have another question for you.

    16 No, sorry, I don't have another question for

    17 you. That will be all. Thank you very much.

    18 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] Thank you very

    19 much, Judge Rodrigues.

    20 I will have one or two questions --

    21 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you too.

    22 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] Yes. Good

    23 afternoon to you too.

    24 It was your niece who came with Goran

    25 Jelisic? I'm not sure I understood you fully well.

  4. 1 Was it your niece which came to visit you with Goran

    2 Jelisic?

    3 A. My nephew's daughter. I am a sort of uncle

    4 to her father, and she called me "Uncle."

    5 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] Did you ever

    6 see that young woman again? Have you seen her since

    7 all these events have taken place? What has become of

    8 her?

    9 A. After the 20th or 25th of May, I don't know

    10 the exact date, she was no longer in Brcko, and I don't

    11 know where she is now.

    12 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] But you are

    13 very close to your family. Have you never asked any of

    14 your relatives what had become of her?

    15 A. Gentlemen Judges, her father and mother moved

    16 to another republic as well. They didn't remain where

    17 they had lived, so who can I ask?

    18 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] A lot of events

    19 have taken place since that particular time,

    20 Witness DK. Since then, you have learned that Goran

    21 Jelisic, whom you trusted during four days, four days

    22 during which he was about 100 metres away from your

    23 house, since these events you have learned that he has

    24 killed a number of people. He goes around with your

    25 niece. He calls you "Uncle." You've learned since

  5. 1 then that he's said himself that he was guilty of a

    2 number of crimes. Have you not been shaken by all

    3 this?

    4 We've been talking about this as if it was

    5 something quite normal. You've been describing it as a

    6 very objective event, whereas it's something that's

    7 quite unusual, quite dramatic. Have you not questioned

    8 the fact that you have been quite blind to reality?

    9 Does that not affect what you have told us,

    10 Witness DK? You don't wonder about anything you've

    11 said or your behaviour at the time?

    12 A. Your Honours, he did not tell me, even on

    13 that day, "I have killed so many people." He just said

    14 that pressure had been exerted on him to kill. And my

    15 organism knows best, my body knows best about that, and

    16 that had I -- Goran Jelisic was not my friend.

    17 But I do, nonetheless, wish to state what I

    18 know and what I consider to be the truth, and I have

    19 taken the oath. This is not the first time I have

    20 taken the oath. I have taken the oath in Brcko several

    21 times when I worked on a jury and so on, so I know what

    22 it means to take the oath.

    23 But had Goran said to me, "Good day, hello,

    24 I've killed one man," then I would say, "Well, we have

    25 nothing to talk about." But what he, in fact, told me

  6. 1 was that the authorities were bringing pressure to bear

    2 on him to kill. First of all, he said, "They are

    3 making me do dirty things." I asked him, "What dirty

    4 things," and he said, "To kill." I said, "Goran, you

    5 should flee, because you must not kill."

    6 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] I understand

    7 that, and I was about to say, "Dear colleague, I

    8 understand what you're saying." But to take upon you

    9 to work as Mr. Londrovic asks you to work, to try and

    10 do things for Mr. Jelisic, that's something I cannot

    11 understand from a psychological point of view.

    12 I do, you know, pay homage to your courage.

    13 I do thank you for coming all the way to The Hague, but

    14 you have been acting as a man going around trying to

    15 find positive testimonies in favour of Mr. Jelisic, a

    16 man who has publicly recognised that he had killed a

    17 number of individuals, and that's something I can't

    18 quite understand.

    19 Then you tell us that you sometimes act as a

    20 judge. So that's something else. Maybe we don't see

    21 being a judge as -- or we don't agree on what a judge

    22 is. That's why I ask you that particular question. I

    23 was just wondering what kind of witness you were, in

    24 fact.

    25 I think Judge Rodrigues has another question

  7. 1 he wishes to put to you, because maybe my questions

    2 have triggered a number of thoughts in his mind. But

    3 that's what I'm interested in, Witness DK. I'm trying

    4 to understand what exactly, who you are.

    5 Actually, can I put that question to you?

    6 Would you accept Goran Jelisic marrying your niece

    7 today? Is he the ideal son-in-law that you've met

    8 during four days and to whom you've offered coffee at a

    9 time when everybody was afraid of everything. And you

    10 told us that 100 metres away from your house you could

    11 see the refrigerated trucks coming and going.

    12 I'm well aware that seven years have gone by

    13 since what has happened, but you come now here today

    14 and tell us about now nice a man Mr. Jelisic is, and

    15 you've told us how you've worked for Mr. Londrovic, how

    16 you've gone and try -- positive testimony on behalf of

    17 Mr. Londrovic.

    18 I don't have a question for you really, but I

    19 don't think we have the same job as judges. Now

    20 Judge Rodrigues has a question for you.

    21 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Witness DK,

    22 I'm sorry to put another question to you. A moment ago

    23 I was a bit disorganised but now I feel I can put this

    24 question to you.

    25 It seems that you told us an uncle and an

  8. 1 aunt of Mr. Jelisic's lived right next door to you.

    2 Did I understand you correctly?

    3 A. Not next to my house but in the next street.

    4 His Uncle Milorad and his Aunt Borka. Borka is a

    5 teacher and Milorad is a -- and I'll tell what happened

    6 to Milorad later on if you permit me.

    7 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Sorry for

    8 cutting in. How? How did you know that these people

    9 were the uncle and the aunt of Mr. Jelisic?

    10 A. Dragan Jelisic told -- Goran Jelisic -- I

    11 apologise -- told me that when he came to my yard for

    12 the first time.

    13 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] So before

    14 May the 8th, you had never talked with these people

    15 about Goran Jelisic?

    16 A. Which people do you mean? Which people?

    17 Talked to which people?

    18 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] The uncle

    19 and the aunt of Goran Jelisic.

    20 A. I knew them, and I would give his aunt a

    21 lift, because she's a teacher near where I lived. So I

    22 knew Milorad and Borka, but I didn't know Goran

    23 himself.

    24 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Right. But

    25 you've learned from Mr. Jelisic that these people you

  9. 1 knew were, in fact, his aunt and uncle.

    2 A. Yes. I heard that from Goran the first day

    3 he came to my yard and introduced himself. I heard

    4 "Jelisic," and I asked whether he was any relation to

    5 the Jelisics that I knew.

    6 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] So it was

    7 only then that you were able to establish the link

    8 between these two individuals and the person who was

    9 standing in front of you? It was only then that you

    10 became aware of the fact that they were, in fact, his

    11 uncle and his aunt?

    12 A. Yes.

    13 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] I have

    14 another question for you, Witness DK.

    15 A. Go ahead. Yes, please.

    16 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Since it

    17 seemed to be a difficult thing to do for Mr. Londrovic,

    18 being a Serb and an Orthodox, to go and have an

    19 interview with this priest who was a Catholic and a

    20 Croat, why was it easier for Mr. Londrovic, who is a

    21 Serb and who is an Orthodox, to go and have an

    22 interview with you, who are a Catholic and a Croat?

    23 You are in the very same position as the priest. The

    24 priest is a Croat and a Catholic, and he is not

    25 interviewed by a Serb and an Orthodox, but you are a

  10. 1 Croat and a Catholic and it's much easier for that Serb

    2 and Orthodox, for Mr. Londrovic, to go and have an

    3 interview with you. How can you explain this? Have

    4 you understood my question, in fact?

    5 A. Yes, I've understood the question, but I am

    6 retired, I have lots of time, and I'd help anybody

    7 arrive at the truth. And my neighbour also has a

    8 relative of his who's a priest, and he said that this

    9 priest, Danic Pero, was in Slunj; that is to say, the

    10 village near Slunj. And I see no reason for not going

    11 there with anybody if I was asked to go nicely.

    12 And it doesn't matter if I'm a Croat and

    13 Londrovic is a Serb. If we're men and human beings, we

    14 can talk like human beings. And Mr. Londrovic struck

    15 me as a very fine man and lawyer. I know that he was

    16 president of the court in Bijeljina at one time.

    17 And can I put something right that the Judge

    18 said a moment ago, that we were judges. No, I was on

    19 the jury. You know what a jury is. You have the

    20 judges and you have the jury, women and men of the jury

    21 elected territorially and so on.

    22 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Sorry to

    23 interrupt you, Witness DK.

    24 A. Yes, please.

    25 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] So you

  11. 1 already had links with Mr. Londrovic? You already knew

    2 him?

    3 A. I knew him by sight. As to the legal

    4 affairs, I'm not a legal man myself. I'm an

    5 accountant.

    6 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Was there

    7 any particular relation between Mr. Londrovic and Mr.

    8 Jelisic?

    9 A. I don't know that. They could not have seen

    10 each other in Brcko. Whether they saw each other here

    11 or somewhere else, I don't know. I can't say.

    12 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Thank you

    13 very much, Witness DK.

    14 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] Yes,

    15 Mr. Greaves?

    16 MR. GREAVES: My client is feeling unwell.

    17 May he leave the court, please?

    18 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] Well, actually,

    19 I think that everybody will leave the court,

    20 Mr. Greaves. I think that we will put an end to the

    21 hearing. But, of course, your client may leave at

    22 once, but we will suspend the hearing and resume our

    23 work tomorrow morning at 10.00.

    24 THE REGISTRAR: Yes. That's right, Your

    25 Honour, tomorrow morning at 10.00.

  12. 1 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] Mr. Jelisic, do

    2 you want to say something? You're feeling unwell? Do

    3 you want to say something?

    4 THE ACCUSED: Yes, Your Honours. I apologise

    5 for having to leave every hour. I have taken five

    6 pills so far. I do apologise, but I really am feeling

    7 poorly, and if I may, I'd like to go out. I will do

    8 everything in my power not to stay out for too long and

    9 to come to these proceedings regularly, but if I may be

    10 excused at this particular time I would appreciate it.

    11 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] If you're not

    12 feeling well, if you're sick, Mr. Jelisic, you will

    13 benefit from medical care at the detention unit, and I

    14 don't think that whenever you have felt sick we, the

    15 Judges, have refused you all the medical help you are

    16 entitled to. Don't remain standing. You may leave the

    17 courtroom.

    18 As I said a moment ago, we will end the

    19 hearing and it will be resumed tomorrow morning at

    20 10.00.

    21 Witness DK, thank you for coming. You may

    22 return to your country now.

    23 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned

    24 at 5.47 p.m., to be reconvened on

    25 Wednesday, the 10th day of November,

  13. 1 1999, at 10.00 a.m.