1 Tuesday, 9th November, 1999
2 [Closed session]
3 [The accused present in court]
4 --- Upon commencing at 10.38 a.m.
12 [Open session]
13 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] We are now in
14 open session, Your Honour.
15 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] Thank you very
17 How do things stand from the technical point
18 of view?
19 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Right, Your
20 Honour. I think everything is ready, technically
22 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] All right.
23 Mr. Greaves, you have the floor. Who is the
24 witness you are about to call to the stand?
25 MR. GREAVES: Witness DL, and the name which
1 you are about to see on that sheet is the correct
3 Has he arrived?
4 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Yes. The
5 witness is sitting at the table. He's ready.
6 MR. GREAVES: It's not immediately obvious to
7 me. I'm sorry. I do apologise, Your Honour.
8 WITNESS: WITNESS DL
9 [Witness answered through interpreter]
10 [Witness testified via videolink]
11 Examined by Mr. Greaves:
12 Q. Witness DL, I would like to ask you some
13 questions, please, about Goran Jelisic, but first of
14 all, can you tell Their Honours what your ethnic
15 background is?
16 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] The witness
17 should first take the oath, I think.
18 MR. GREAVES: Of course, Your Honour. I'm
20 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] I think that's
21 what we have to do first. I'm the one who should
22 apologise, because I should have thought of it sooner.
23 But I see that the legal officer of the Chamber is
24 sending me some brain waves, and I'm well aware of what
25 I should be doing right now. Actually, I should be
1 asking the witness to take the oath.
2 Mr. Registrar, what is the situation?
3 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] There is a
4 slight technical problem. Let's hope it is going to be
5 short-lived. The technical booth has just told me that
6 things should be settled in a minute.
7 MR. NICE: While the technical point is being
8 resolved, can I express my concern at the fact that it
9 appears, from the way the screen looks at the moment,
10 that we are now ourselves even to see the face of this
11 witness. It's one thing for the face to be distorted
12 so far as the general public is concerned, but I had no
13 idea, and maybe Mr. Greaves didn't either, that the
14 face was to be distorted from all of us. It's
15 impossible for the Trial Chamber or for the advocates
16 to make any assessment of the witness who is entirely
17 blanked out.
18 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] Of course,
20 Mr. Registrar, how should we go about this?
21 I don't understand what's happening myself, because in
22 other cases where we had videolink conference, we could
23 see the face of the witness.
24 Now, in the order that was issued by the
25 Chamber, maybe it was specified that there should be
1 face distortion devices used, but these measures apply
2 to the public. Think about what was done yesterday.
3 Witnesses came into the room, their face was distorted
4 when the images were sent to the public gallery, but
5 that does not apply here because we, the Judges and the
6 advocates, have to be able to see the face of the
7 witness. If we can't see the face of the witness,
8 anything can happen, basically. We don't know who is
9 in front of us. We have to make sure that the
10 protective measures are ensured, but I think the best
11 thing to do is to suspend the hearing for a few
13 --- Recess taken at 10.44 a.m.
14 --- On resuming at 11.18 a.m.
15 [Closed session]
13 pages 2477-2512 redacted - closed session
12 --- Luncheon recess taken at 1.06 p.m.
1 --- On resuming at 2.54 p.m.
13 pages 2514-2554 redacted - closed session
21 --- Recess taken at 4.23 p.m.
22 [The witness entered court]
23 --- On resuming at 4.35 p.m.
24 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] The hearing is
25 resumed. Please be seated.
1 Can the accused be brought in, please.
2 [The accused entered court]
3 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] So as not to
4 delay the testimony of the witness, who is right here
5 in front of us, let us at once resume his direct
6 examination. Then we'll go back to the issue that was
7 raised earlier, i.e., the reason why the fourth witness
8 which was planned to testify via videolink will not do
9 so. But let us just continue with the present witness,
10 Witness DK, I believe. Is that right, Mr. Registrar?
11 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Yes, indeed,
12 Your Honour, Witness DK.
13 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] Mr. Greaves,
14 you have the floor.
15 WITNESS: WITNESS DK [Resumed]
16 Examined by Mr. Greaves:
17 Q. Witness DK, what was the last date in May
18 1992 when you saw the defendant, Goran Jelisic?
19 A. The last day in 1992 was the 11th of May;
20 that's when I saw him last.
21 Q. Subsequently, did you hear from any source of
22 any rumours concerning Goran Jelisic?
23 A. Yes, I did. Sometime in mid-August, I heard
24 that Goran Jelisic had been wounded and that the
25 Serbian authorities wanted to kill him and were looking
1 for him.
2 Q. Witness DK, I would like to turn now, please,
3 to June of this year. On the 5th of June of this year,
4 did you go to the Republic of Croatia?
5 A. Yes, I did. Yes, I did go.
6 Q. Did you visit somebody in Croatia?
7 A. Yes. I visited the Catholic priest in a
8 place called Vitansjneslon [phoen], which is near
9 Karlovac, below Karlovac. We visited the priest,
10 because he had been in Brcko before the war and the war
11 found him in Brcko. And later on he moved, and so we
12 went to see him there.
13 Q. And did you have a conversation with him?
14 A. I'm not getting the interpretation loudly
15 enough. Could the volume be put up, please? Perhaps
16 the microphone needs to be moved or something like
17 that. A little louder, please.
18 I can hear you now, yes. Thank you.
19 Q. Did he tell you something that had happened
20 to him in May 1992?
21 A. Yes, he did. Do you want me to tell you what
22 he said, or shall I wait for you to ask?
23 Q. What did he tell you about? In general
24 terms, what was it about?
25 A. It was about the fact that this priest -- I'm
1 a Catholic myself, a Roman Catholic, but this priest
2 had been in Brcko, and sometime between the 3rd and 5th
3 of May, five masked soldiers turned up at his place and
4 took him off to the SUP building in Brcko, the Internal
5 Affairs secretariat and the police. That is the
6 building where both of these organisations are.
7 And he was held there for four days. He was
8 kept then. They asked him for some money. Whether he
9 didn't want to give them any money or whatever, but he
10 spent four days in prison there.
11 And a major, I think his name was Peric, sent
12 him home on the seventh day and told him to bring back
13 the money. And he was given ten minutes to take his
14 necessary belongings and to come back to the SUP
15 building, and this is what he did.
16 Q. Just pause there. Whilst he was detained at
17 the SUP building, did he tell you of any threats to him
18 that were made?
19 A. Yes, he did. He said that he was threatened,
20 that they threatened to beat him and other things too,
21 and I think that's what happened.
22 Q. Did he tell you whether he had gone home for
23 this money?
24 A. Yes. He said he had gone to fetch the money,
25 escorted by a soldier, and that he came back ten
1 minutes later, he went back to the SUP building.
2 Q. Having returned to the SUP building, was he
3 able to leave it again? Did he tell you that?
4 A. He couldn't leave, but he said that that
5 particular major, Major Peric, sent him to Bijeljina,
6 to a priest in Bijeljina, escorted by Goran Jelisic and
7 another soldier nicknamed Sok. So these two escorted
8 him to Bijeljina, and they thought that they would
9 liquidate him on the way there.
10 Q. Did he give any account to you as to how he
11 was treated by Goran Jelisic during the course of that
13 A. Yes. He told us everything as things evolved
14 and that he was at the house of the Major. Goran
15 Jelisic went out to have a fruit juice. He said he
16 didn't want any, and the priest sat as a co-driver.
17 And I forget to say that this man nicknamed Sok had a
18 Kalishnikoff automatic rifle with him, and they went
19 towards Bijeljina. Goran Jelisic addressed him as
20 "Father." His conduct towards him was extremely
21 proper, and he transferred him -- he placed him in the
22 care of the priest in Bijeljina.
23 Q. And did he have any complaint at all about
24 the conduct of Goran Jelisic or, indeed, the other man
25 towards him?
1 A. No, he had no complaints and said he was
2 surprised by their conduct, that they were very proper
3 towards him.
4 MR. GREAVES: Thank you, Witness DK. Would
5 you be so kind as to wait there and answer any
6 questions which are put to you.
7 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] Yes. The
8 Prosecutor will now ask you a few questions,
9 Witness DK. I'm sure you've been informed of that.
10 Mr. Nice, the floor is yours.
11 MR. NICE: Thank you very much.
12 Cross-examined by Mr. Nice:
13 Q. Just dealing with the priest, the priest was
14 a Catholic priest?
15 A. Yes, he was, in Brcko, before the war.
16 Q. You saw him in the summer of this year?
17 A. That's right. He's in Brcko again now.
18 Q. He's fit and well and able to travel?
19 A. He's healthy, he's well, he's able to travel,
20 but he did not want to promise us that he would give
21 any statement, make any written statement or anything
22 else, because the laws of the church forbid it.
23 Q. Who is the "us" that you referred to in that
24 last answer?
25 A. No, we -- we asked whether he would make a
1 written statement or testify in court, any court, in an
2 office, to the International Court or this
3 distinguished Tribunal, and he said, no, because it is
4 a long procedure and he would have to ask permission
5 from the church authorities. I don't know what they
6 are called.
7 Q. You say "we." Have you been involved in
8 gathering the evidence for this defendant that you use
9 the word "we"?
10 A. I was asked by a lawyer that I should hear
11 where that priest is, and I heard from my colleague,
12 who has some in-laws who -- and they said that the
13 priest was in Slunj, or Vitanci, or whatever the place
14 is called near Slunj, and so we went to visit him; that
15 is to say, I, myself, and Mr. Londrovic.
16 Q. And so it's you and Mr. Londrovic who have
17 been trying to get the evidence, is it?
18 A. Well, that's how it was.
19 Q. Why are you so involved in the Defence of
20 Jelisic when you only met him for two days?
21 A. I'm not taking part in the Defence. I just
22 wish to state the truth about Jelisic as I know it, and
23 I am telling the truth.
24 Q. You saw the man for about two days, didn't
1 A. About four, about four days.
2 Q. I repeat: Why are you so involved in his
3 Defence if you only knew the man for a few, you say,
4 four days?
5 A. Well, I said that the family's in our
6 neighbourhood. I didn't know what Goran Jelisic was
7 doing; nor did he tell me. If Goran Jelisic has these
8 people on his conscience, then he should be held
9 responsible. But if anybody forced Goran Jelisic to
10 perform the acts he did, then it would be necessary for
11 Goran Jelisic to state those names so that those people
12 could be held accountable.
13 Q. And as you understand it, Witness DK, people
14 did force Jelisic to do these killings; that's right,
15 isn't it?
16 A. I do consider that somebody ordered him to
17 perform those acts. And Goran is a young man. He
18 probably didn't understand. Of course, nobody must
19 take anybody's life. That is my opinion, and I shall
20 always stand by it.
21 Q. I'm going to come back and give you a chance
22 to tell us more detail of the pressure that was put on
23 Jelisic a little later.
24 MR. NICE: May we have a necessary private
25 session to deal with matters of identification? I'm
1 going to ask the witness to look at a map, but I
2 hope -- there's nobody in the public gallery. If the
3 matter can be dealt with swiftly, so much the better.
4 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] Yes, but
5 whatever the case, we should go into private session.
6 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] We are now in
7 private session.
8 [Private session]
13 pages 2564-2585 redacted - private session
4 [Open session]
5 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] Thank you,
6 Judge Riad.
7 We're now going back into open session, but,
8 sir, you are still benefiting from the protective
9 measures you've been benefiting from since the very
10 beginning of your testimony.
11 Now Judge Rodrigues will ask you a number of
13 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.
14 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Witness DK,
15 you have just told my colleague, Judge Riad, that you
16 had seen Mr. Jelisic during four days?
17 A. Yes, that's right.
18 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Right. I
19 seem to remember hearing you saying that on the very
20 first day, on the 8th of May, you had spent about 10 to
21 15 minutes with him. Am I right?
22 A. You're right. Our meeting was never longer
23 when he came, stopped by with the girl. It wasn't more
24 than 10 to 15 minutes, a coffee and a walk. He had his
25 business to attend to. I'm a pensioner. That was how
1 it was.
2 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] So you
3 spent about 10 to 15 minutes with him, and is that the
4 amount of time you spent with him every day during
5 those four days?
6 A. About that long, 15 to 20 minutes. He never
7 stayed longer, because he walked around with his
8 girlfriend. They went to Bijeljina. It was May. They
9 walked around. Unfortunately, it was a day of sunshine
10 and flowers, but Brcko had a day of mourning.
11 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] I also seem
12 to remember you saying that the last time you saw Mr.
13 Jelisic was May the 11th. Is that correct?
14 A. Well, between the 10th and 11th of May, I saw
15 him. You know, seven years have gone by since then.
16 And as I said, on that occasion, he was nervous and
17 sad, if I can say that, and not in a good mood, and
18 that's when we had the talks.
19 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] After that
20 particular date, after May the 11th, have you ever had
21 the opportunity to meet Mr. Jelisic again or did you
22 never see him after that?
23 A. I never met him again. I never saw him
24 again, but I heard what I told you about in August,
25 that they were looking for him and wanted to kill him
1 and that he was wounded. But he can tell you about
2 that, because I didn't actually see it, so I don't want
3 to claim anything I didn't see.
4 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] So
5 according to you, Mr. Jelisic did not come back on the
6 12th, on the 13th, or on the 14th or the 15th, he did
7 not come back because he followed your advice and
8 escaped and ran away?
9 A. I think that that's precisely what happened.
10 And he should have listened to my advice, because who
11 can be allowed to kill people, I ask you.
12 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] But you are
13 well aware of the fact that on the 18th of May, on the
14 20th of May, he did kill people.
15 But okay. I have another question for you.
16 No, sorry, I don't have another question for
17 you. That will be all. Thank you very much.
18 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] Thank you very
19 much, Judge Rodrigues.
20 I will have one or two questions --
21 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you too.
22 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] Yes. Good
23 afternoon to you too.
24 It was your niece who came with Goran
25 Jelisic? I'm not sure I understood you fully well.
1 Was it your niece which came to visit you with Goran
3 A. My nephew's daughter. I am a sort of uncle
4 to her father, and she called me "Uncle."
5 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] Did you ever
6 see that young woman again? Have you seen her since
7 all these events have taken place? What has become of
9 A. After the 20th or 25th of May, I don't know
10 the exact date, she was no longer in Brcko, and I don't
11 know where she is now.
12 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] But you are
13 very close to your family. Have you never asked any of
14 your relatives what had become of her?
15 A. Gentlemen Judges, her father and mother moved
16 to another republic as well. They didn't remain where
17 they had lived, so who can I ask?
18 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] A lot of events
19 have taken place since that particular time,
20 Witness DK. Since then, you have learned that Goran
21 Jelisic, whom you trusted during four days, four days
22 during which he was about 100 metres away from your
23 house, since these events you have learned that he has
24 killed a number of people. He goes around with your
25 niece. He calls you "Uncle." You've learned since
1 then that he's said himself that he was guilty of a
2 number of crimes. Have you not been shaken by all
4 We've been talking about this as if it was
5 something quite normal. You've been describing it as a
6 very objective event, whereas it's something that's
7 quite unusual, quite dramatic. Have you not questioned
8 the fact that you have been quite blind to reality?
9 Does that not affect what you have told us,
10 Witness DK? You don't wonder about anything you've
11 said or your behaviour at the time?
12 A. Your Honours, he did not tell me, even on
13 that day, "I have killed so many people." He just said
14 that pressure had been exerted on him to kill. And my
15 organism knows best, my body knows best about that, and
16 that had I -- Goran Jelisic was not my friend.
17 But I do, nonetheless, wish to state what I
18 know and what I consider to be the truth, and I have
19 taken the oath. This is not the first time I have
20 taken the oath. I have taken the oath in Brcko several
21 times when I worked on a jury and so on, so I know what
22 it means to take the oath.
23 But had Goran said to me, "Good day, hello,
24 I've killed one man," then I would say, "Well, we have
25 nothing to talk about." But what he, in fact, told me
1 was that the authorities were bringing pressure to bear
2 on him to kill. First of all, he said, "They are
3 making me do dirty things." I asked him, "What dirty
4 things," and he said, "To kill." I said, "Goran, you
5 should flee, because you must not kill."
6 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] I understand
7 that, and I was about to say, "Dear colleague, I
8 understand what you're saying." But to take upon you
9 to work as Mr. Londrovic asks you to work, to try and
10 do things for Mr. Jelisic, that's something I cannot
11 understand from a psychological point of view.
12 I do, you know, pay homage to your courage.
13 I do thank you for coming all the way to The Hague, but
14 you have been acting as a man going around trying to
15 find positive testimonies in favour of Mr. Jelisic, a
16 man who has publicly recognised that he had killed a
17 number of individuals, and that's something I can't
18 quite understand.
19 Then you tell us that you sometimes act as a
20 judge. So that's something else. Maybe we don't see
21 being a judge as -- or we don't agree on what a judge
22 is. That's why I ask you that particular question. I
23 was just wondering what kind of witness you were, in
25 I think Judge Rodrigues has another question
1 he wishes to put to you, because maybe my questions
2 have triggered a number of thoughts in his mind. But
3 that's what I'm interested in, Witness DK. I'm trying
4 to understand what exactly, who you are.
5 Actually, can I put that question to you?
6 Would you accept Goran Jelisic marrying your niece
7 today? Is he the ideal son-in-law that you've met
8 during four days and to whom you've offered coffee at a
9 time when everybody was afraid of everything. And you
10 told us that 100 metres away from your house you could
11 see the refrigerated trucks coming and going.
12 I'm well aware that seven years have gone by
13 since what has happened, but you come now here today
14 and tell us about now nice a man Mr. Jelisic is, and
15 you've told us how you've worked for Mr. Londrovic, how
16 you've gone and try -- positive testimony on behalf of
17 Mr. Londrovic.
18 I don't have a question for you really, but I
19 don't think we have the same job as judges. Now
20 Judge Rodrigues has a question for you.
21 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Witness DK,
22 I'm sorry to put another question to you. A moment ago
23 I was a bit disorganised but now I feel I can put this
24 question to you.
25 It seems that you told us an uncle and an
1 aunt of Mr. Jelisic's lived right next door to you.
2 Did I understand you correctly?
3 A. Not next to my house but in the next street.
4 His Uncle Milorad and his Aunt Borka. Borka is a
5 teacher and Milorad is a -- and I'll tell what happened
6 to Milorad later on if you permit me.
7 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Sorry for
8 cutting in. How? How did you know that these people
9 were the uncle and the aunt of Mr. Jelisic?
10 A. Dragan Jelisic told -- Goran Jelisic -- I
11 apologise -- told me that when he came to my yard for
12 the first time.
13 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] So before
14 May the 8th, you had never talked with these people
15 about Goran Jelisic?
16 A. Which people do you mean? Which people?
17 Talked to which people?
18 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] The uncle
19 and the aunt of Goran Jelisic.
20 A. I knew them, and I would give his aunt a
21 lift, because she's a teacher near where I lived. So I
22 knew Milorad and Borka, but I didn't know Goran
24 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Right. But
25 you've learned from Mr. Jelisic that these people you
1 knew were, in fact, his aunt and uncle.
2 A. Yes. I heard that from Goran the first day
3 he came to my yard and introduced himself. I heard
4 "Jelisic," and I asked whether he was any relation to
5 the Jelisics that I knew.
6 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] So it was
7 only then that you were able to establish the link
8 between these two individuals and the person who was
9 standing in front of you? It was only then that you
10 became aware of the fact that they were, in fact, his
11 uncle and his aunt?
12 A. Yes.
13 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] I have
14 another question for you, Witness DK.
15 A. Go ahead. Yes, please.
16 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Since it
17 seemed to be a difficult thing to do for Mr. Londrovic,
18 being a Serb and an Orthodox, to go and have an
19 interview with this priest who was a Catholic and a
20 Croat, why was it easier for Mr. Londrovic, who is a
21 Serb and who is an Orthodox, to go and have an
22 interview with you, who are a Catholic and a Croat?
23 You are in the very same position as the priest. The
24 priest is a Croat and a Catholic, and he is not
25 interviewed by a Serb and an Orthodox, but you are a
1 Croat and a Catholic and it's much easier for that Serb
2 and Orthodox, for Mr. Londrovic, to go and have an
3 interview with you. How can you explain this? Have
4 you understood my question, in fact?
5 A. Yes, I've understood the question, but I am
6 retired, I have lots of time, and I'd help anybody
7 arrive at the truth. And my neighbour also has a
8 relative of his who's a priest, and he said that this
9 priest, Danic Pero, was in Slunj; that is to say, the
10 village near Slunj. And I see no reason for not going
11 there with anybody if I was asked to go nicely.
12 And it doesn't matter if I'm a Croat and
13 Londrovic is a Serb. If we're men and human beings, we
14 can talk like human beings. And Mr. Londrovic struck
15 me as a very fine man and lawyer. I know that he was
16 president of the court in Bijeljina at one time.
17 And can I put something right that the Judge
18 said a moment ago, that we were judges. No, I was on
19 the jury. You know what a jury is. You have the
20 judges and you have the jury, women and men of the jury
21 elected territorially and so on.
22 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Sorry to
23 interrupt you, Witness DK.
24 A. Yes, please.
25 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] So you
1 already had links with Mr. Londrovic? You already knew
3 A. I knew him by sight. As to the legal
4 affairs, I'm not a legal man myself. I'm an
6 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Was there
7 any particular relation between Mr. Londrovic and Mr.
9 A. I don't know that. They could not have seen
10 each other in Brcko. Whether they saw each other here
11 or somewhere else, I don't know. I can't say.
12 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Thank you
13 very much, Witness DK.
14 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] Yes,
15 Mr. Greaves?
16 MR. GREAVES: My client is feeling unwell.
17 May he leave the court, please?
18 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] Well, actually,
19 I think that everybody will leave the court,
20 Mr. Greaves. I think that we will put an end to the
21 hearing. But, of course, your client may leave at
22 once, but we will suspend the hearing and resume our
23 work tomorrow morning at 10.00.
24 THE REGISTRAR: Yes. That's right, Your
25 Honour, tomorrow morning at 10.00.
1 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] Mr. Jelisic, do
2 you want to say something? You're feeling unwell? Do
3 you want to say something?
4 THE ACCUSED: Yes, Your Honours. I apologise
5 for having to leave every hour. I have taken five
6 pills so far. I do apologise, but I really am feeling
7 poorly, and if I may, I'd like to go out. I will do
8 everything in my power not to stay out for too long and
9 to come to these proceedings regularly, but if I may be
10 excused at this particular time I would appreciate it.
11 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] If you're not
12 feeling well, if you're sick, Mr. Jelisic, you will
13 benefit from medical care at the detention unit, and I
14 don't think that whenever you have felt sick we, the
15 Judges, have refused you all the medical help you are
16 entitled to. Don't remain standing. You may leave the
18 As I said a moment ago, we will end the
19 hearing and it will be resumed tomorrow morning at
21 Witness DK, thank you for coming. You may
22 return to your country now.
23 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned
24 at 5.47 p.m., to be reconvened on
25 Wednesday, the 10th day of November,
1 1999, at 10.00 a.m.