Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 2756

1 Thursday, 11th November, 1999

2 [Closed session]

3 --- Upon commencing at 10.06 a.m.

4

5

6

7

8

9

10 Pages 2756 2767 redacted (closed session)

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

Page 2768

1 (redacted)

2 (redacted)

3 (redacted)

4 (redacted)

5 (redacted)

6 (redacted)

7 (redacted)

8 (redacted)

9 (redacted)

10 (redacted)

11 (redacted)

12 [Open session]

13 JUDGE JORDA: All right. This is now a

14 public session. You can begin, Mr. Greaves.

15 Examined by Mr. Greaves:

16 Q. Witness DB, would you tell us, please, what

17 your ethnic background is?

18 A. I'm a Muslim.

19 Q. How long have you known Goran Jelisic?

20 A. I've known Goran, as I'm older than him,

21 since childhood.

22 Q. By how much are you older than Goran?

23 A. About ten years, thereabouts. Ten or eleven.

24 Q. Initially, were you just acquaintances who

25 would exchange greetings when you met in town?

Page 2769

1 A. No.

2 Q. Did there come a time when you became close

3 friends?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. When was that?

6 A. That was when Goran grew up and started going

7 out with his friends in town.

8 Q. Amongst the people who were in his group of

9 friends, were you the only Muslim, or were there other

10 Muslims as members of that group?

11 A. No, there were all sorts. There were Muslims

12 and Croats and Serbs and Romanies, Gypsies.

13 Q. Did Goran Jelisic, in your presence, ever

14 demonstrate a hostility towards members of other races

15 or any sort of nationalist ideas towards other races?

16 A. No.

17 Q. In April 1992, I think that fighting broke

18 out in your home town of Bijeljina. Did you see Goran

19 after that fighting had taken place?

20 A. No.

21 Q. When did you next see Goran after the

22 fighting in Bijeljina?

23 A. I can't tell you exactly, but it was perhaps

24 some three months later, thereabouts, sometime in July

25 or August. In the summer, at any rate.

Page 2770

1 Q. And when you saw him, had his attitude

2 changed towards you as a Muslim in any way?

3 A. No.

4 Q. Did he offer any sort of assistance to you?

5 A. He offered me assistance. The refugees had

6 already started, so that I would not have any problems

7 with the refugees; that is to say, with them evicting

8 me from my own home. And he said if I needed any help

9 along those lines that I could contact him and he would

10 help me as far as he was able.

11 Q. Later on in 1992, did you continue to see

12 Goran?

13 A. Not as much, because I was busy. I was

14 amongst the fighting ranks in the Posavina front

15 region, so we didn't communicate, and saw each other

16 less frequently.

17 Q. When you returned from the military

18 activities, did you see him again?

19 A. I saw him, but we didn't go around together,

20 because Goran lived in town, and I went about my own

21 business, so we didn't actually go around together

22 after the fighting activities.

23 Q. Yes. Would you wait there, please,

24 Witness DB.

25 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] Mr. Nice?

Page 2771

1 MR. NICE: Only a couple of questions of this

2 witness, I think.

3 Cross-examined by Mr. Nice:

4 Q. Just yes or no: Were you spoken to by the

5 investigator, Mr. Berberovic, on behalf of the Defence?

6 A. No.

7 Q. Then who on behalf of the Defence did you

8 speak to or did you give a statement to?

9 A. A lawyer, Veselin Londrovic.

10 Q. Has it ever been your recollection -- no,

11 I'll start again.

12 You say that the only occasion when you met

13 Jelisic was in July or August of 1992; that's right,

14 isn't it?

15 A. Yes, that's right.

16 Q. And it has never been your case -- I'm so

17 sorry.

18 It has never been your case, it's never been

19 your recollection, that you met him as early as April

20 or May of 1992, has it?

21 A. No.

22 Q. At the time he gave you assistance, or

23 offered you some kind of assistance, did he reveal to

24 you that he knew he was already a wanted man?

25 A. I didn't know that.

Page 2772

1 Q. At the time he allegedly offered you

2 assistance, he appeared to have some influence with the

3 local authorities and was able to move around freely;

4 would that be correct?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. One other topic, very shortly: You knew him

7 before 1992; is that correct?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Did you know him in 1989?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. Did you see him regularly then?

12 A. Not really regularly, but whenever we would

13 see each other, we would have a drink and have a talk,

14 a chat. But this was never anything to do with

15 politics.

16 Q. So you got to know of his getting involved in

17 criminal offences?

18 A. No.

19 Q. He never told you about that?

20 A. No.

21 Q. You didn't know of his drug addiction?

22 A. No.

23 Q. You see, Jelisic has told others that the

24 root of all his problems happened in January 1989, when

25 his wife's father came to his house, and since then, he

Page 2773

1 took the road to criminal activity. He never discussed

2 that with you, did he?

3 A. No.

4 Q. And indeed, he kept all his criminal activity

5 from you?

6 A. Yes.

7 MR. NICE: Thank you.

8 MR. GREAVES: No re-examination, thank you.

9 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] Thank you.

10 Judge Riad, do you have any questions?

11 JUDGE RIAD: Thank you, Mr. President.

12 Questioned by the Court:

13 JUDGE RIAD: Witness DB, good morning.

14 You said that you knew the accused since his

15 childhood?

16 A. Yes.

17 JUDGE RIAD: What did you know about his

18 family life, about the way he was brought up? In

19 short.

20 A. He was from a fine family, and I couldn't

21 believe that he could do anything of the kind for which

22 he stands accused.

23 JUDGE RIAD: No, I wanted to know, was he

24 brought up by his parents? Was he a lonely child? Was

25 he left unattended to? Who brought him up, and when

Page 2774

1 did he leave his home? If you knew him since his

2 childhood, you could give us some information.

3 A. His family is a fine one, as I said, and if

4 he took the wrong road as a young man, before the

5 war --

6 JUDGE RIAD: [Previous translation

7 continues] ... the wrong road, and when was that?

8 A. Well, like any young man who likes to get his

9 kicks from cafes, stays out late at night --

10 JUDGE RIAD: I don't want any young man; I

11 want Jelisic. If you have nothing to say, please save

12 us the trouble.

13 Thank you.

14 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] Thank you,

15 Judge Riad.

16 Judge Rodrigues, no questions?

17 I have no questions either. Thank you,

18 Witness DB. Your testimony is now concluded.

19 Please do not move. I think that we are not

20 yet ready for the video conference, according to what

21 the registrar has told us.

22 THE REGISTRAR: That's correct. I reconfirm

23 it will be around 11.00.

24 JUDGE JORDA: [Interpretation] All right.

25 Very well. That will allow us to take a nice break

Page 2775

1 that the interpreters have actually, in fact, deserved,

2 in advance.

3 We will break until around 11.00, when the

4 registrar calls us to tell us that the video conference

5 is ready.

6 Court is adjourned.

7 --- Recess taken at 10.35 a.m.

8 --- On resuming at 11.20 a.m.

9 (redacted)

10 (redacted)

11 (redacted)

12 (redacted)

13 (redacted)

14 (redacted)

15 (redacted)

16 (redacted)

17 (redacted)

18 (redacted)

19 (redacted)

20 (redacted)

21 (redacted)

22 (redacted)

23 (redacted)

24 (redacted)

25 (redacted)

Page 2776

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11 Pages 2776 2791 redacted (closed session)

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

Page 2777

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13 Pages 2792 2812 redacted (closed session)

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21 ---Whereupon the hearing adjourned at

22 1.00 p.m., to be reconvened on Monday,

23 the 22nd of November, 1999, at

24 10.00 a.m.

25