1 Friday, 15 October 2010
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 --- Upon commencing at 11.41 a.m.
5 JUDGE KWON: Good morning, again.
6 Okay, if you could tell us the situation, whether you feel it
7 would be okay to continue with the evidence or not, Mr. Karadzic.
8 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Unfortunately, I don't feel well.
9 Yesterday, finally, this ventilator, which is right above my head, was
10 closed. It constantly caused problems for me throughout the summer
11 because I have to sit here for an hour and a half at a time, I can't move
12 from this spot, and my shoulder area and back were very painful. And
13 later this affected my organs as well, and it affected my concentration.
14 So I am sluggish, mentally, and this is not my natural condition.
15 Also, I believe that my nutrition -- my diet has been upset. I
16 was in excellent condition when I arrived, but now everything is getting
18 JUDGE KWON: I take it that cross-examination of this witness is
19 impracticable, according to your observation. But how about going on
20 with hearing the examination-in-chief now?
21 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I believe I could do that, yes.
22 JUDGE KWON: Can I hear your position, Mr. Tieger or Mr. Gaynor?
23 MR. GAYNOR: Yes, Mr. President.
24 There really is no examination-in-chief. It's simply a question
25 of reading a summary of the witness's evidence and asking him to confirm
1 that his amalgamated statement is his evidence.
2 JUDGE KWON: But at least we can save some five or ten minutes --
3 MR. GAYNOR: Yes. Very well, Mr. President.
4 JUDGE KWON: -- if we do that now.
5 MR. GAYNOR: Yes, Mr. President.
6 JUDGE KWON: And for scheduling purposes: On Monday, we are
7 supposed to sit in the morning, due to a recent change about court
8 scheduling, so my intention is to sit until 2.30, in an extended format,
9 to accommodate as much as possible the evidence of Mr. Fraser. So my
10 understanding - I had to confirm this first - on Monday and Tuesday,
11 we'll hear Mr. Fraser's evidence.
12 MR. TIEGER: Correct, Your Honour.
13 JUDGE KWON: And with the indulgence of the staff and
14 interpreters, and if it is agreeable to the parties, we'll sit from 9.00
15 to 2.30. And Tuesday, it hasn't been finalised whether we will sit in
16 the morning or in the afternoon. That should be finalised by the end of
17 today, and parties will be informed in due course.
18 And the cross-examination of this witness will be conducted after
19 Mr. Fraser's evidence is concluded. Am I correct in so understanding?
20 MR. GAYNOR: Yes. If that's what the Court wishes to do, that, I
21 believe, is acceptable to Mr. Vidovic.
22 JUDGE KWON: And he is around now?
23 MR. GAYNOR: He is, to the best of my knowledge, yes.
24 JUDGE KWON: So can you bring him now?
25 MR. GAYNOR: Yes.
1 JUDGE KWON: We need to draw the curtain?
2 MR. GAYNOR: Yes, he is protected with image distortion, so not
3 voice distortion, and he's not using a pseudonym.
4 [The witness entered court]
5 JUDGE KWON: Good morning, Mr. Vidovic.
6 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good morning.
7 JUDGE KWON: If you could take the solemn declaration, please.
8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will
9 speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
10 WITNESS: BOGDAN VIDOVIC
11 [The witness answered through interpreter]
12 JUDGE KWON: Thank you. Please be seated.
13 Before Mr. Gaynor starts examining you, I'd like to show you the
14 image that we'll broadcast. Pursuant to your request, we'll not
15 broadcast your image. Those in the public gallery and outside cannot see
17 If the Audio Unit could kindly show his image.
18 This is what will be seen outside. Do you understand?
19 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, all right.
20 JUDGE KWON: Yes, thank you.
21 Yes, Mr. Gaynor.
22 MR. GAYNOR: Thank you, Mr. President.
23 Examination by Mr. Gaynor:
24 Q. Witness, could you state your full name, please.
25 A. Bogdan Vidovic.
1 Q. Did you, on the 28th of September, 2010, read a statement which
2 contained relevant parts of the transcripts of your evidence in the
3 trials of Stanislav Galic and Dragomir Milosevic?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Were you given an opportunity to make any corrections that you
6 wished to make to that statement?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. You didn't wish to make any corrections?
9 A. No, no corrections.
10 MR. GAYNOR: I ask the Registrar, please, for 65 ter 90194,
12 Q. Mr. Vidovic, on the screen in front of you, do you see the first
13 page of your amalgamated statement?
14 A. Yes, I do.
15 Q. Would you provide the same answers if you were asked, under oath,
16 about those topics today?
17 A. Yes.
18 MR. GAYNOR: And with the Court's permission, I will now read a
19 summary of Mr. Vidovic's evidence for the benefit of the public.
20 JUDGE KWON: Yes. We'll admit that statement.
21 MR. ROBINSON: Excuse me, Mr. President. Or go ahead, Ram.
22 JUDGE KWON: Just a second. You have an objection to the
23 admission of that statement?
24 MR. ROBINSON: Yes, Mr. President, a couple of parts of it.
25 There are two incidents that are included in that statement that
1 are unscheduled incidents. On page 41 is an unscheduled incident on the
2 14th of February, 1995, the sniping of a tram. And on pages 41 through
3 48, there is the shelling of Omladinska Street on the 11th of July, 1994.
4 And pursuant to the arguments that we've made earlier that you've
5 rejected, we, nevertheless, wish to preserve that objection by asking
6 that those incidents be redacted from the amalgamated statement, that no
7 associated exhibits be admitted concerning those incidents, and that
8 evidence concerning these unscheduled incidents not be received.
9 And I realise that you have already ruled that these are relevant
10 for pattern and widespread and systematic elements of the offences that
11 Dr. Karadzic is charged with, but I would just like to point out that, in
12 order for them to be useful in that way, you would have to conclude that
13 it was the Bosnian Serbs that were responsible for those shellings,
14 because if it wasn't, then it's not part of any pattern that's of any
15 relevance to the charges and, therefore, it's necessary for us to bring
16 evidence to rebut that assertion. So these decisions to admit
17 unscheduled incidents have an affect upon the resources and the time that
18 will be spent during the course of this trial.
19 Thank you very much.
20 JUDGE KWON: Thank you, Mr. Robinson.
21 MR. GAYNOR: I'm not sure if you wish to hear from me on this
22 point, Mr. President.
23 JUDGE KWON: Not now, Mr. Gaynor. Thank you.
24 MR. GAYNOR: Thank you.
25 JUDGE KWON: We ruled upon this matter, as you indicated, and you
1 kindly referred to the reasoning, so I don't feel the need to repeat it.
2 Your objection is overruled.
3 Yes, Judge Morrison.
4 JUDGE MORRISON: Mr. Robinson, I appreciate the reason why you're
5 doing it. I see that it's not frivolous. You're following the American
6 pattern concerning things which might be considered for appellate
7 purposes later, no doubt.
8 As I understand it, in American law, if you don't raise it
9 ab initio, you can't raise it on appeal; is that correct?
10 MR. ROBINSON: That's correct. It's also my understanding of the
11 law of this Tribunal the Appeals Chamber sometimes dismisses grounds of
12 appeal that haven't been raised by the Trial Chamber, so that's why we
13 feel the need to raise it on a continuing basis.
14 JUDGE MORRISON: That's what I thought. As you will understand,
15 in the UK
16 raising of these matters frivolous, but be assured I don't, because I
17 understand the position.
18 MR. ROBINSON: Thank you very much.
19 JUDGE KWON: We have to wait for translation.
20 Only now the translation has been complete.
21 Yes, we'll give the number to that exhibit.
22 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honour, that will be Exhibit P1742.
23 JUDGE KWON: Thank you.
24 Mr. Gaynor.
25 MR. GAYNOR: Could I also seek at this stage the admission of the
1 associated exhibits, which are referred to on pages 63 and 64 of the
2 amalgamated statement? The very last entry on page 64 is --
3 JUDGE KWON: I'll raise it after you read out the summary.
4 MR. GAYNOR: Very well, Mr. President.
5 JUDGE KWON: Yes.
6 MR. GAYNOR: I'll now read the summary of the evidence,
7 Mr. President.
8 Mr. Vidovic joined the Criminal Department of the Security
9 Services Centre (CSB
10 describes the training he received and the duties he performed as a
11 criminal forensic technician for CSB
12 involved in the investigation of a considerable number of shelling and
13 sniping incidents.
14 In his previous evidence, Mr. Vidovic authenticated documentation
15 relating to an incident in which a tram, travelling west on
16 Smaja od Bosne Street towards Alipasino Polje, was hit by sniper fire on
17 the 19th of June, 1994. The investigative team concluded that the bullet
18 had fragmented upon impact with a heating and ventilation unit in the
19 middle of the tram, resulting in injury to three passengers. The
20 investigative team concluded that the bullet had come from the direction
21 of Grbavica and Vrace, which were under Bosnian Serb control.
22 Mr. Vidovic was also involved in the investigation of a shelling
23 incident that occurred on the 16th of June, 1995. In this incident, a
24 modified air-bomb exploded at number 7 on Cobanija Street, inflicting
25 physical injuries to three people and extensive property damage.
1 Mr. Vidovic also discussed a sniping incident on the 14th of
2 February, 1995, in which a tram, going from Bascarsija towards the depot
3 at Alipasino Polje, was shot at. One passenger was injured. The shot
4 was determined to have come from the south-east.
5 Mr. Vidovic was also involved in the investigation of a shelling
6 incident at Omladinska Street on 11th of July, 1995, and authenticated
7 documentation relating to this incident.
8 Mr. Vidovic described an incident in which he and members of his
9 investigative team came under sniper fire while conducting an
10 investigation into a shelling incident near the Holiday Inn in Sarajevo
11 He states that, as a general matter, anti-sniping barricades, in the form
12 of large metal containers which were set up at intersections, provided
13 cover to people from gun-fire coming from Serb-held positions. However,
14 the containers only offered limited protection. Sometimes a bullet would
15 pass through a container and hit a person behind it, and sometimes
16 snipers would fire over a container onto people behind it.
17 Mr. Vidovic's father was killed by shelling on 6th of October,
18 1992, when he was coming back from getting water from a water tank which
19 was located close to the family's apartment building in the center of
21 area around his family's apartment building between 1992 and 1995.
22 That concludes the summary. I'd now like to seek the admission
23 of the associated exhibits.
24 JUDGE KWON: How many of them, in total; 22?
25 MR. GAYNOR: Yes. Some of them have actually -- have been
1 admitted already. I think Mr. Doraiswamy has the numbers.
2 JUDGE KWON: Could you indicate what documents have been already
4 MR. GAYNOR: Yes, we can do that at a later stage.
5 JUDGE KWON: Then I'll raise them one by one.
6 First, could you take a look at the sixth item, the 65 ter number
7 of which is 10509 --
8 MR. GAYNOR: Yes.
9 JUDGE KWON: -- which are medical records relating to persons
10 admitted to the University Medical Centre. But reading the statements,
11 but the witness didn't mention anything but that it was some kind of
12 medical finding. So on that basis, whether it can be admitted as an
13 associated exhibit --
14 MR. GAYNOR: Very well.
15 JUDGE KWON: So if you're minded, you can go -- and number 14,
16 65 ter 09659 --
17 MR. GAYNOR: Yes.
18 JUDGE KWON: -- letter from Karavelic, and also the witness did
19 not speak to the contents about this. All the witness did was to read or
20 confirm what had been written on the letter.
21 MR. GAYNOR: Yes.
22 JUDGE KWON: And number 15, the next one, letter from
23 President Izetbegovic, also the same is true with that item as well. And
24 I'm not quite sure about the last item, which is not numbered, which
25 refers to a report concerning the shelling of Cobanija Street, which is
1 allegedly attached to the ICTY witness statement. Are you tendering
3 MR. GAYNOR: Yes. I'll clarify those points in turn.
4 First of all, as Your Honour pointed out, a number of the
5 documents which were put to the witness during his cross-examination in
6 his previous evidence were put to him by the Defence teams in those
7 cases, and he was not able to add a great deal of value to those
8 documents. And these were documents emanating from the ABiH or from, in
9 one case, President Izetbegovic. Now, we took the position that we
10 would err on the side of inclusiveness, so we have included those in the
11 package of associated exhibits. We certainly have no objection if Your
12 Honours wish to remove those. We certainly don't object to that.
13 JUDGE KWON: You're referring to number 14 and 15?
14 MR. GAYNOR: Yes, that's correct, Mr. President.
15 The other point you raised was the very final document or report
16 concerning the Cobanija Street. This was, in fact -- this is, in fact,
17 the first document on the previous page. It was inserted in there,
18 I think, simply to note that it was originally attached to the witness's
19 statement -- to the witness statement of KDZ438 on the 10th of March,
20 1997. So Your Honours can essentially ignore that particular entry, as
21 it refers to a document --
22 JUDGE KWON: Thank you.
23 How about the medical records?
24 MR. GAYNOR: Yes. If -- again, I understand the point that the
25 witness was not able to confirm the medical basis for these. And if Your
1 Honours do not wish to admit them as an integral part of his evidence,
2 perhaps they could be admitted as an associated exhibit.
3 JUDGE KWON: No. In order to be admitted as an associated
4 exhibit, it should form an indispensable and inseparable part of the
5 statement. But it is not the case. So if you want to tender that, you
6 have to go through it with the witness.
7 But in relation to the two letters emanating from the
8 cross-examination, if there's no objection, the Chamber is minded to
9 admit them, both of them.
10 So you would like to tender that medical record, number 6?
11 MR. GAYNOR: Yes. If there's no objection from the other side,
12 we'd like to tender it, yes.
13 JUDGE KWON: Then on that basis, we'll admit them all. And the
14 numbers of those exhibits will be circulated in due course by the
15 Court Officer.
16 Mr. Vidovic, I have to apologise to you. Due to the condition of
17 the accused, who is not feeling well at this moment, we cannot continue
18 with his cross-examination. And, moreover, we have set Monday and
19 Tuesday for a specific witness who had difficulty travelling to
20 The Hague
21 the accused, on Wednesday. And the proper time has not been finalised,
22 but it will be informed to you by the Victim and Witness Section.
23 Unless there's anything else to be raised --
24 MR. GAYNOR: No, thank you, Mr. President.
25 JUDGE KWON: -- the hearing is now adjourned.
1 [The witness stands down]
2 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 12.06 p.m.
3 to be reconvened on Monday, the 18th day of
4 October, 2010, at 9.00 a.m.