Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 29619

 1                           Friday, 2 November 2012

 2                           [Open session]

 3                           [The accused entered court]

 4                           [The witness entered court]

 5                           --- Upon commencing at 9.32 a.m.

 6             JUDGE KWON:  Good morning, everyone.

 7             Judge Baird cannot be with us for the first session today, so

 8     we'll be sitting pursuant to Rule 15 bis for the first session.  But

 9     before we proceed, I was told by the Victims and Witness Section that the

10     witness wanted to address the Chamber.

11             Yes, Mr. Garic.  Good morning to you.

12             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good morning.  Well, first of all,

13     when preparing to come here I was told I would be arriving yesterday, on

14     the 1st.  So I arrived about 9.00 p.m. last night, went to the hotel.  I

15     prepared briefly with the team, worked until half past 11.00

16     approximately.  I couldn't sleep because it's been a long time since I

17     last flew by plane.  I live to the east of Sarajevo at an altitude of

18     about 600 metres.  I work on Jahorina at an altitude of 1.700 metres and

19     here the altitude is 0 or even below 0.  That has had an influence on me.

20     So I don't know whether I will be able testify correctly and

21     authentically, having prepared so briefly with the team.

22             If my request could be met, perhaps I could testify next Monday,

23     next week, on the first working day.  That's what I was told would

24     happen.  All of this is new to me.  It's all been done in a hurry and I'm

25     afraid I won't be able to convey with precision all the events that took

Page 29620

 1     place almost two decades ago.  I'm not sure I'll be able to testify

 2     authentically.

 3                           [Trial Chamber and Registrar confer]

 4             JUDGE KWON:  Just out of abundance of caution, could the Chamber

 5     move into private session briefly.

 6                           [Private session]

 7   (redacted)

 8   (redacted)

 9   (redacted)

10   (redacted)

11   (redacted)

12   (redacted)

13   (redacted)

14   (redacted)

15   (redacted)

16   (redacted)

17   (redacted)

18                           [Open session]

19             JUDGE KWON:  Yes.

20                           [Trial Chamber confers]

21             JUDGE MORRISON:  Mr. Witness, I understand -- you used the word

22     or at least the word "authentically" was the word that was translated.  I

23     think what you probably meant was that if you were to testify today the

24     quality of your evidence wouldn't be as high as it would be if you were

25     able to rest until Monday.  Is that what you meant?

Page 29621

 1             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, that's quite right.  I came to

 2     testify here with the intention to help to tell my story, to tell the

 3     Chamber about what I can remember with regard to the events that took

 4     place over 20 years.  I wanted to testify to the best of my ability,

 5     which would be in the interest of the Tribunal, the Prosecution, the

 6     accused, et cetera.  So I would suggest, if my request could be granted,

 7     that I be allowed to prepare with the team, to have a rest, and to

 8     continue, or rather, to testify on the first working day next week, which

 9     is what I was told would, in fact, take place.

10             JUDGE KWON:  Mr. Garic, what did you mean by saying that you

11     would prepare with the team?

12             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, my conversation with regard

13     to my testimony here was in July.  I gave a statement on Jahorina about

14     two months ago, and I still haven't read through the statement as I

15     should have.  I haven't been presented with everything.  What I had a

16     look at yesterday -- well, there were two or three details that I didn't

17     quite agree with.  I would like to correct that, so that's what I meant

18     by saying that I would like to prepare with the team.  If I may continue?

19             JUDGE KWON:  Yes, please.

20             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] In around May of 2004 I gave a

21     statement in Belgrade.  As far as I can remember, a certain gentleman

22     Jonathan Tait-Harris [phoen] was his name, if I remember it correct, I

23     gave him an interview because I was in Belgrade for a few days.  When we

24     took leave of each other, I was told I would be provided with a copy of

25     the statement, a recording, I was told I would be sent the CDs, but this

Page 29622

 1     was never done.  So it wasn't quite serious, although this gentleman, I

 2     think he was British, he gave me his card.  I called him on a number of

 3     occasions but I couldn't reach him.  So I haven't had a look at those

 4     statements either.  It's only last night that I had a couple of hours to

 5     have a look at the statement.  I need a little time to prepare myself, to

 6     focus, to have a rest.  I have told you the reason for which I suggested

 7     that I should start testifying next Monday.

 8             JUDGE KWON:  The Chamber would like to hear from the parties.

 9             Yes, Mr. Robinson.

10             MR. ROBINSON:  Yes, Mr. President.  Well, we did everything we

11     could to try to maximise the use of the Chamber's time, but I think in

12     light of the witness's position it would really be better to proceed on

13     Monday.  For one thing, we could prepare a revised statement, we can save

14     some time by not having to go through a statement that has been

15     corrected, and I think it would be better for the witness and better for

16     the Chamber if we were able to do this in an orderly fashion.  We had

17     hoped that we could work with him last night, and I thank Mr. Sladojevic

18     for working until almost midnight with the witness, but it appears that

19     the witness is not really ready to be giving his testimony today and we

20     apologise for that.

21             JUDGE KWON:  Ms. Gustafson.

22             MS. GUSTAFSON:  Thank you, yes.

23             JUDGE KWON:  Good morning.

24             MS. GUSTAFSON:  Good morning.  Well, I mean, obviously the

25     welfare of the witness is paramount here.  The one thing I would notice

Page 29623

 1     is that there may be some inconsistency between the witness's need to

 2     rest and his wish to prepare over the weekend with the Defence.  And in

 3     that regard I would note that - I think as the Chamber is aware - we

 4     received a substantial number of corrections and additions to the

 5     statement yesterday evening.  I think there were 17 paragraphs in all,

 6     including some substantive changes to the statement and significant new

 7     information on new topics.

 8             And we're in the Chamber's hands on this, but I would ask that if

 9     there is to be further proofing over the weekend that it would be limited

10     to preparing a revised statement incorporating the corrections that we

11     have already received and without provision of further new information so

12     that we're not in the situation on Monday morning that we were in on this

13     morning, being presented with substantial amount of new information and

14     very little time to absorb it into our cross-examination preparations.

15     Thank you.

16                           [Trial Chamber confers]

17             JUDGE KWON:  Mr. Robinson, does the Defence need further proofing

18     or new information from the witness?

19             MR. ROBINSON:  Well, I wouldn't say that we need new information,

20     but I think in any kind of contact with the witness if he were to provide

21     us with new information we ought to communicate that to the Prosecution

22     even though it might be something they would prefer not to receive.

23     But -- so I don't think it would be appropriate to limit the proofing in

24     any way, but we'll make every effort to have the statement, if we do take

25     a revised statement, if we're given time, to have it limited to the

Page 29624

 1     corrections that are being made.  But if he does provide us with new

 2     information we can't stop him and we can't ignore it, so I don't think

 3     there should be any limitations on the proofing.

 4             JUDGE KWON:  We could have started hearing his evidence but we

 5     are minded to postpone the proceedings in light of the well-being of the

 6     witness.  So I was wondering whether there's no contact with the witness

 7     whatsoever, would it cause much problems on the part of the Defence?

 8             MR. ROBINSON:  Well, we were prepared to go forward this morning,

 9     so it wouldn't cause any problem, but it would be a lot better if we

10     could prepare a statement so that when we came into court on Monday it

11     took ten minutes instead of 45 minutes to get the evidence out.

12             JUDGE KWON:  Very well.  Then the -- any revision of the

13     statement should have been -- should be disclosed to the Prosecution by

14     the close of business time today.  Would that be feasible?

15             MR. ROBINSON:  Yes, Mr. President.

16             JUDGE KWON:  And, Ms. Gustafson, is it acceptable to you?

17             MS. GUSTAFSON:  Yes.  Thank you, Your Honour.

18             JUDGE KWON:  Mr. Garic, we are going to postpone the proceedings

19     until Monday, and please take a good rest and I hope you recover very

20     soon.

21             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you very much.

22             JUDGE KWON:  The hearing is adjourned.

23                           --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 9.47 a.m.,

24                           to be reconvened on Monday, the 5th day of

25                          November, 2012, at 9.00 a.m.