1 Friday, 2 November 2012
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 [The witness entered court]
5 --- Upon commencing at 9.32 a.m.
6 JUDGE KWON: Good morning, everyone.
7 Judge Baird cannot be with us for the first session today, so
8 we'll be sitting pursuant to Rule 15 bis for the first session. But
9 before we proceed, I was told by the Victims and Witness Section that the
10 witness wanted to address the Chamber.
11 Yes, Mr. Garic. Good morning to you.
12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good morning. Well, first of all,
13 when preparing to come here I was told I would be arriving yesterday, on
14 the 1st. So I arrived about 9.00 p.m. last night, went to the hotel. I
15 prepared briefly with the team, worked until half past 11.00
16 approximately. I couldn't sleep because it's been a long time since I
17 last flew by plane. I live to the east of Sarajevo at an altitude of
18 about 600 metres. I work on Jahorina at an altitude of 1.700 metres and
19 here the altitude is 0 or even below 0. That has had an influence on me.
20 So I don't know whether I will be able testify correctly and
21 authentically, having prepared so briefly with the team.
22 If my request could be met, perhaps I could testify next Monday,
23 next week, on the first working day. That's what I was told would
24 happen. All of this is new to me. It's all been done in a hurry and I'm
25 afraid I won't be able to convey with precision all the events that took
1 place almost two decades ago. I'm not sure I'll be able to testify
3 [Trial Chamber and Registrar confer]
4 JUDGE KWON: Just out of abundance of caution, could the Chamber
5 move into private session briefly.
6 [Private session]
18 [Open session]
19 JUDGE KWON: Yes.
20 [Trial Chamber confers]
21 JUDGE MORRISON: Mr. Witness, I understand -- you used the word
22 or at least the word "authentically" was the word that was translated. I
23 think what you probably meant was that if you were to testify today the
24 quality of your evidence wouldn't be as high as it would be if you were
25 able to rest until Monday. Is that what you meant?
1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, that's quite right. I came to
2 testify here with the intention to help to tell my story, to tell the
3 Chamber about what I can remember with regard to the events that took
4 place over 20 years. I wanted to testify to the best of my ability,
5 which would be in the interest of the Tribunal, the Prosecution, the
6 accused, et cetera. So I would suggest, if my request could be granted,
7 that I be allowed to prepare with the team, to have a rest, and to
8 continue, or rather, to testify on the first working day next week, which
9 is what I was told would, in fact, take place.
10 JUDGE KWON: Mr. Garic, what did you mean by saying that you
11 would prepare with the team?
12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, my conversation with regard
13 to my testimony here was in July. I gave a statement on Jahorina about
14 two months ago, and I still haven't read through the statement as I
15 should have. I haven't been presented with everything. What I had a
16 look at yesterday -- well, there were two or three details that I didn't
17 quite agree with. I would like to correct that, so that's what I meant
18 by saying that I would like to prepare with the team. If I may continue?
19 JUDGE KWON: Yes, please.
20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] In around May of 2004 I gave a
21 statement in Belgrade. As far as I can remember, a certain gentleman
22 Jonathan Tait-Harris [phoen] was his name, if I remember it correct, I
23 gave him an interview because I was in Belgrade for a few days. When we
24 took leave of each other, I was told I would be provided with a copy of
25 the statement, a recording, I was told I would be sent the CDs, but this
1 was never done. So it wasn't quite serious, although this gentleman, I
2 think he was British, he gave me his card. I called him on a number of
3 occasions but I couldn't reach him. So I haven't had a look at those
4 statements either. It's only last night that I had a couple of hours to
5 have a look at the statement. I need a little time to prepare myself, to
6 focus, to have a rest. I have told you the reason for which I suggested
7 that I should start testifying next Monday.
8 JUDGE KWON: The Chamber would like to hear from the parties.
9 Yes, Mr. Robinson.
10 MR. ROBINSON: Yes, Mr. President. Well, we did everything we
11 could to try to maximise the use of the Chamber's time, but I think in
12 light of the witness's position it would really be better to proceed on
13 Monday. For one thing, we could prepare a revised statement, we can save
14 some time by not having to go through a statement that has been
15 corrected, and I think it would be better for the witness and better for
16 the Chamber if we were able to do this in an orderly fashion. We had
17 hoped that we could work with him last night, and I thank Mr. Sladojevic
18 for working until almost midnight with the witness, but it appears that
19 the witness is not really ready to be giving his testimony today and we
20 apologise for that.
21 JUDGE KWON: Ms. Gustafson.
22 MS. GUSTAFSON: Thank you, yes.
23 JUDGE KWON: Good morning.
24 MS. GUSTAFSON: Good morning. Well, I mean, obviously the
25 welfare of the witness is paramount here. The one thing I would notice
1 is that there may be some inconsistency between the witness's need to
2 rest and his wish to prepare over the weekend with the Defence. And in
3 that regard I would note that - I think as the Chamber is aware - we
4 received a substantial number of corrections and additions to the
5 statement yesterday evening. I think there were 17 paragraphs in all,
6 including some substantive changes to the statement and significant new
7 information on new topics.
8 And we're in the Chamber's hands on this, but I would ask that if
9 there is to be further proofing over the weekend that it would be limited
10 to preparing a revised statement incorporating the corrections that we
11 have already received and without provision of further new information so
12 that we're not in the situation on Monday morning that we were in on this
13 morning, being presented with substantial amount of new information and
14 very little time to absorb it into our cross-examination preparations.
15 Thank you.
16 [Trial Chamber confers]
17 JUDGE KWON: Mr. Robinson, does the Defence need further proofing
18 or new information from the witness?
19 MR. ROBINSON: Well, I wouldn't say that we need new information,
20 but I think in any kind of contact with the witness if he were to provide
21 us with new information we ought to communicate that to the Prosecution
22 even though it might be something they would prefer not to receive.
23 But -- so I don't think it would be appropriate to limit the proofing in
24 any way, but we'll make every effort to have the statement, if we do take
25 a revised statement, if we're given time, to have it limited to the
1 corrections that are being made. But if he does provide us with new
2 information we can't stop him and we can't ignore it, so I don't think
3 there should be any limitations on the proofing.
4 JUDGE KWON: We could have started hearing his evidence but we
5 are minded to postpone the proceedings in light of the well-being of the
6 witness. So I was wondering whether there's no contact with the witness
7 whatsoever, would it cause much problems on the part of the Defence?
8 MR. ROBINSON: Well, we were prepared to go forward this morning,
9 so it wouldn't cause any problem, but it would be a lot better if we
10 could prepare a statement so that when we came into court on Monday it
11 took ten minutes instead of 45 minutes to get the evidence out.
12 JUDGE KWON: Very well. Then the -- any revision of the
13 statement should have been -- should be disclosed to the Prosecution by
14 the close of business time today. Would that be feasible?
15 MR. ROBINSON: Yes, Mr. President.
16 JUDGE KWON: And, Ms. Gustafson, is it acceptable to you?
17 MS. GUSTAFSON: Yes. Thank you, Your Honour.
18 JUDGE KWON: Mr. Garic, we are going to postpone the proceedings
19 until Monday, and please take a good rest and I hope you recover very
21 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you very much.
22 JUDGE KWON: The hearing is adjourned.
23 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 9.47 a.m.,
24 to be reconvened on Monday, the 5th day of
25 November, 2012, at 9.00 a.m.