Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 44420

 1                           Wednesday, 4 December 2013

 2                           [Open session]

 3                           [The accused entered court]

 4                           [The witness takes the stand]

 5                           --- Upon commencing at 9.06 a.m.

 6             JUDGE KWON:  Good morning, everyone.  Please continue,

 7     Ms. McKenna.

 8             MS. McKENNA:  Thank you, Your Honour.

 9                           WITNESS:  BORO TADIC [Resumed]

10                           [Witness answered through interpreter]

11                           Cross-examination by Ms. McKenna: [Continued]

12        Q.   Mr. Tadic, in response to question 18 in your statement, you say

13     that equal rights were afforded to everyone regardless of their

14     nationality and, again, in response to question 44, regarding the SDS

15     policy to permanently remove Bosnian Muslims or Croats, you say there

16     were no policies of persecution, forced deportations or ethnic cleansing.

17             Now, yesterday, we talked about co-ordinated attacks on

18     neighbourhoods populated by non-Serbs but this morning I'd like to focus

19     on the issue of forced deportations.  Now, while you claim that there was

20     no policy of forced transfer, it's true, isn't it, that in Sanski Most,

21     as in other municipalities in the ARK, the position of the Serb

22     authorities was that Muslims and Croats had to leave these

23     municipalities?

24        A.   The position was to treat everyone equally.  However, if somebody

25     takes up arms, organising secretly against the state, then that person

Page 44421

 1     loses that status.  We have to distinguish between the policy of equal

 2     treatment for everyone and the relocation of population who wanted to

 3     join their own community, ethnic community; thus Serbs went from the

 4     parts where they were a minority in Bosnia-Herzegovina to parts where

 5     they were in the majority, and Croats chose to do the same, to feel

 6     safer.

 7             I know that several thousand Muslims spent months gathering

 8     various papers to meet all the requirements to depart.  They had to have

 9     documents from various institutions of Republika Srpska in order to

10     leave, and they had to have a permit from the area where they wanted to

11     go, and a permit to cross the border.  So the Muslims were organising to

12     leave, and many of them are grateful to me to this day because I had

13     helped them get their names on the lists for departure.

14             So it was not expulsion, like I was expelled from Sanski Most.

15     I was expelled from Sanski Most under fire, where they left in a

16     civilised way with the escort provided by our armed forces.  Of course,

17     in all these situations, there were isolated cases and incidents, or, as

18     you in the West would put it, collateral damage.  But every such instance

19     when a Serb inflicted pain on somebody else, is my pain, because I know

20     that it was not the intention of the leadership of Republika Srpska to

21     inflict pain on anyone and you can see that from the speeches of our

22     presidents on many occasions, because Republika Srpska was established on

23     St. Stephen's day and St. Stephen was a martyr for Christ.

24        Q.   I'm going to stop you there.  Again, I remind you as I did

25     yesterday to try and answer the questions as concisely and as precisely

Page 44422

 1     as possible and your answer to my question is, it was not expulsion.

 2             MS. McKENNA:  I'd like to call up P3664.

 3        Q.   Now, Mr. Tadic, this is a 1st Krajina Corps command state of

 4     combat morale report, as you'll see, dated 14th of June, 1992, and it's

 5     from General Talic to the Serbian Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina army

 6     Main Staff.  I'm interested in page 2 of the B/C/S and page 4 -- excuse

 7     me, page 4 of the B/C/S and page 2 of the English.  Sorry, perhaps it's

 8     the following page in the English.  Thank you.  And I'd like you -- to

 9     direct your attention to the last paragraph just before item 3 begins,

10     and it states:  The most difficult situation concerns the Muslim and

11     Croat refugees in the area of AOR Krajina, their security and the

12     provision of food.  The attempt to expel them to Central Bosnia failed

13     because of transportation difficulties and their resistance to leaving

14     their places of residence.

15             So, firstly, Mr. Tadic, this isn't about armed combatants, as you

16     claimed.  This is about Muslim and Croat refugees; and secondly -- well,

17     can you comment on that?  Do you agree that this document refers to

18     refugees rather than armed combatants?

19        A.   Indeed, you see a sentence here with the word "expulsion" and

20     that's too strong a word for what was happening.  I know only about

21     Sanski Most.  I cannot comment on other areas.  I know there was huge

22     pressure on the local authorities from people who wanted to leave and we

23     couldn't even easily provide security, and provide them with the means to

24     leave because it was difficult to organise it without incidents and

25     deaths.  And this reference to food supply, the situation was horrible

Page 44423

 1     then.  The Serbs were being punished by the international community.

 2     Everything was blocked.  Krajina was cut off.  There was no food.  There

 3     were huge shortages and we were all in a very difficult situation.

 4        Q.   Mr. Tadic, it's clear from this document that Muslim and Croat

 5     refugees are being expelled and they do not want to leave.  Now, you say

 6     you only know about the situation in Sanski Most.  Let's refer to a

 7     document in which you discuss the situation in Sanski Most.

 8             MS. McKENNA:  Could we please have P3657.

 9        Q.   And the document that I'm calling up, Mr. Tadic, is one of the

10     Executive Committee sessions which you stated yesterday that you

11     attended, and at this session, there were extensive discussions regarding

12     the forced displacement of Sanski Most's non-Serbs.  You see that this is

13     the minutes of and decisions taken during the 9th session of the

14     Executive Committee of the Municipal Assembly of Sanski Most on the

15     27th of July, 1992.  Could we please refer to English page 3 and B/C/S

16     page 4.

17             I'd like to focus your attention on item 4 which was the debate

18     on the political and security situation on the territory of Sanski Most

19     where Mirko Vrucinic gave an introductory presentation, and he stated

20     that:  About 4.500 Muslims and Croats have left this territory and

21     continues that there are about -- there are still about 18.000 of them in

22     our municipality.  So Mr. Vrkes enters the discussion and he states:

23     With respect to the political and security situation on the territory of

24     the Sanski Most municipality, it has been rather unfavourable recently.

25     There will be a joint meeting of the -- this is continued on page 5 of

Page 44424

 1     the B/C/S.  He says:  There will be a joint meeting of military and

 2     civilian authorities this week.  A stumbling block for the new

 3     authorities was what to do with the other ethnic groups, Muslims and

 4     Croats.  The most humane thing to do is to allow them to move away

 5     peacefully.  Certain results have been achieved.  We are working through

 6     UNPROFOR to resettle people who are interested in leaving the territory

 7     of our municipality.

 8             JUDGE KWON:  Next page.

 9             MS. McKENNA:  I apologise.

10        Q.   And he continues:  We have to persist in this work because this

11     is what the soldiers and the people of Sanski Most require of us because

12     this has to be a Serbian town.

13             So that was the true aim of the Sanski Most authorities, wasn't

14     it, to ensure that Sanski Most was a Serbian town?

15        A.   This interpretation is lopsided.  You see, in the contribution of

16     Vlado Vrkes and the previous speakers, an exclusive position that it is

17     also a request of the Muslims and their own wish to leave the territory,

18     so their wish to leave coincided with the situation where providing

19     enough food for the population and the aggravating crisis caused by

20     sanctions imposed by the international community, and people needed a

21     heap of documents from various institutions in order to be able to leave.

22     And Vlado Vrkes - and you can even look at the previous speaker - says

23     that Muslims are asking to leave and we need to make it possible for them

24     in the safest possible way.  That is separate from what was happening to

25     the Serbs in the Federation of Bosnia-Herzegovina, who couldn't even hope

Page 44425

 1     to leave in such a way, with safe escort provided by the authorities.  We

 2     acted as a humane state, as humane people, to try to minimise casualties

 3     because war had been imposed on us, and once war begins, there are all

 4     sorts of evil happening.  And if you go back to the previous speaker, he

 5     also talks about the fact that Muslims are demanding to leave.  There was

 6     huge pressure on me personally.

 7        Q.   Muslims were asking to leave, weren't they, because of the

 8     conditions that we discussed yesterday, because of the massive

 9     destruction of their towns and because of the crimes being committed

10     against them with impunity; isn't that correct?

11        A.   That is an exaggeration.  It was the policy of the Muslim

12     leadership, because in Trebinje nobody attacked Muslims, instead they had

13     received orders to leave.

14        Q.   Mr. Tadic, we are not discussing Trebinje.  And right now we are

15     talking about the policy of your leadership and you noticed that -- or

16     I'll refer you to your comment, which is halfway down the page, where you

17     state how to implement the conclusions made here.  And you say:  To set

18     up a council for people's defence and oblige someone from the higher

19     commands to come to meetings so that all this can be implemented more

20     efficiently.  And before I ask you to comment on that, let's go to the

21     conclusions that were being implemented.  If we could go to page 8 of the

22     English and page 11 of the B/C/S.

23             JUDGE KWON:  But I think it's fair to note that as the witness

24     indicated, after passage related to 18.000 of them, Muslims, there is a

25     sentence which goes to the effect that Muslims are asking to move away,

Page 44426

 1     and it should be made possible for them to do so, which you omitted

 2     reading.  Having said that, shall we continue.

 3             MS. McKENNA:  Thank you.

 4        Q.   If we refer to conclusion number 1 and three paragraphs down, it

 5     states:  At present, about 18.000 Muslims and Croats remain on the

 6     territory of the Sanski Most municipality, and to avoid danger to the

 7     Serbian people, it is necessary to organise their voluntary resettlement.

 8             So here the Crisis Staff's conclusion is to organise the

 9     so-called voluntary resettlement of 18.000 Muslims and Croats, and your

10     concern is how that could be implemented in the most efficient way.

11        A.   I'm repeating again:  War is an evil that Satan has imposed on

12     the world, and in all that evil, we need to make sure to minimise it.  It

13     is evil when somebody has to leave their hearth, their home, but it's

14     important to try to make the evil as small as possible.  This is a very

15     complex problem.  You can't simplify.  In the first point, there is a

16     description of how difficult the situation is, militarily and

17     politically.  It's difficult to provide enough food for all the people,

18     and if one part of the population wants to leave and the other, Serbian

19     part, also wants them to leave, so as not to create more problems, to

20     prevent the extremists on both sides to commit evil, and we wanted to

21     enable the most humane possible resettlement, which is a necessary evil

22     in all wars.  You can see that all those Muslims returned before, and in

23     Republika Srpska their property was restituted to them.  But look at the

24     situation of Serbs who had fled from other parts of Bosnia-Herzegovina.

25     Where did Serbs return?  Did Serbs return perhaps to Kosovo?  So all

Page 44427

 1     these consequences were to the detriment of the Serbs.  Serbs are still

 2     leaving various areas.

 3        Q.   Thank you.

 4             JUDGE KWON:  Why does the presence of Muslims, Croats, 18.000 of

 5     them, would cause danger to the Serbian people, Mr. Tadic?

 6             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] They wanted to leave because in

 7     their ranks --

 8             JUDGE KWON:  No, you said that.  But this document does not say

 9     because they want to leave, let them leave.  It says, in order to avoid

10     danger to Serbian people.  Why do they cause danger to the Serbian

11     people?

12             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Because there were constant

13     provocations.  The weapons they had not yet surrendered, they kept

14     secretly.  There was always room for provocation, and our soldiers were

15     not always under the control of their commands, and it was possible to

16     create incidents that we didn't really need.  And at the same time, their

17     badgering of institutions in Sanski Most with demands to enable them to

18     leave created huge pressure.  We were snowed under their requests to

19     leave, and we needed to enable them to do so with as little damage as

20     possible, with as little -- few casualties and deaths.

21             That was the situation, and through these conclusions, you can

22     see that.  We wanted them to leave in order to minimise the problems, and

23     when their property was left behind, we never said that this property

24     would now belong to the Serb refugee who had fled from the Federation of

25     BH.  We said it was property that was only in temporary use by someone

Page 44428

 1     else and we proved it after the war because that property was restituted.

 2             JUDGE KWON:  I wonder whether everybody's LiveNote is running.

 3             THE ACCUSED:  If you reconnect.

 4             JUDGE KWON:  Yes.

 5             THE ACCUSED:  I had a problem.

 6             JUDGE KWON:  Ver well, but it's running on the common computer.

 7     So shall we continue.

 8             MS. McKENNA:  Thank you, Your Honour.  I note that I'm out of

 9     time.  There is one additional topic that I would like to cover briefly.

10             JUDGE KWON:  Yes, please carry on, Ms. McKenna.

11             MS. McKENNA:  Thank you, Your Honour.

12        Q.   Mr. Tadic, in your capacity as head of the Ministry of Defence of

13     the Republika Srpska in Sanski Most, you were responsible for work

14     obligation in the municipality; isn't that correct?

15        A.   Yes, yes.  We are talking about a mobilisation all the resources

16     including human resources and materiel resources for the functioning of

17     the military, first and foremost, and also to improve the conditions of

18     life under such harsh circumstances in Sanski Most; on the one hand, we

19     had mobilisation for the army, and on the other, we had the work

20     obligations because we had only few factories running but we had to keep

21     them running in order to involve all those people who were not able

22     bodied to allow them to survive.  It was my task, the task of the

23     Ministry of Defence of Republika Srpska, and my task as the chief of that

24     department who was in charge of the municipality of Sanski Most.

25     I attended the meetings of the Executive Council as a representative of

Page 44429

 1     the Ministry of Defence of Republika Srpska, as the chief of a department

 2     in the Ministry of Defence of Republika Srpska, as I told you yesterday.

 3        Q.   Thank you.  Once again, can we focus on the questions and give a

 4     concise answer.  Your answer is:  Yes, you were responsible for work

 5     obligation as the head of the Ministry of Defence in Sanski Most.  But

 6     it's true, isn't it, that non-Serbs who were allowed to remain in

 7     Sanski Most were subjected to work obligation?

 8        A.   Yes.

 9             MS. McKENNA:  Could we please see 65 ter 25613.

10        Q.   So, Mr. Tadic, this is a letter -- if we can in fact go to the

11     signature page.  Do you recognise your signature on this letter?

12        A.   Yes, yes, yes.

13        Q.   And this is your letter from the -- rather, to the

14     Executive Board of the Sanski Most Municipal Assembly regarding the work

15     obligation units.  If we could go -- my apologies.  If we go to the first

16     page, and you state:  Over the past 16 months, the Ministry of Defence

17     department of Sanski Most has deployed work obligations units consisting

18     of non-Serbs as requested by the Army of Republika Srpska and various

19     enterprises, institutions and individuals.  You explain that work

20     obligations were originally established -- rather, work obligation units

21     were originally established in May 1993.  And you state:  Subsequently,

22     units comprising non-Serbs began to be utilised while the units made up

23     of Serbs never were.

24             And if we could briefly go to the annex, please, which is the

25     last page of the document, you'll see this details the breakdown of

Page 44430

 1     non-Serbs in work obligation in 1994 and you'll see it's in the region of

 2     1.000 non-Serbs in work obligation.  It's true, isn't it, that contrary

 3     to your testimony about the equal treatment of Serbs and non-Serbs, in

 4     the work obligation units that you were responsible for, only non-Serbs

 5     were required to do this labour; that's correct, isn't it?

 6        A.   Again, yet another lopsided opinion and a total misunderstanding

 7     of the situation.  Let me tell you what this is all about.  The

 8     Ministry of Defence engaged the most capable men for war operations for

 9     the military.  Some of the population had to be deployed into work

10     obligations.  A report is only about that work obligation that the

11     Muslims and the Croats had in order to give an overview of that, but the

12     Serbs were also engaged in work obligation units.  There are also tables

13     that show you where they were engaged.  Therefore, Muslims were in no way

14     at all humiliated in that way.  On the contrary, we involved them in the

15     creation of new commodities and goods, we helped them to feel useful in

16     the territory of Sanski Most, i.e., in Republika Srpska, and it is all

17     explained so nicely here.  The Ministry of Defence had a task to comply

18     with requests of units, the Executive Council, and the factories.  So

19     whenever those institutions requested people, I would send them either

20     Serbs or Croats or Muslims.  This is the information about the engagement

21     of Muslims and Croats only, which doesn't mean that Serbs did not have

22     work obligation.  Obviously we are talking about those who could not be

23     deployed into regular military units.

24        Q.   Mr. Tadic --

25             JUDGE KWON:  I'm not sure there is a translation issue, otherwise

Page 44431

 1     there's an omission.  Can we go back to the first page of this document?

 2     Ms. McKenna read that sentence, probably you missed it, second paragraph,

 3     second sentence, I'll read from the first.  Work obligation units were

 4     originally established in May 1993.  And then second sentence reads like

 5     this:

 6             "Subsequently, units comprising non-Serbs began to be utilised

 7     while the units made up of Serbs never were."

 8             You state here that Serb units were not utilised.

 9             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.  There is a difference here.

10     Before those units were set up for non-Serbs, we had work obligation for

11     all the Serbs who were engaged on the same tasks in companies, in

12     factories.  However, we were faced with the military and security

13     problem.  There was a sentiment of insecurity, and the conditions were

14     not ripe before them to set up those units.  We feared incidents and

15     problems because they had to be safe and secure.  There was a war,

16     fighting was going on, people were getting killed.

17             The Ministry of Defence issued an order to set up those units.

18     However, we always had to bear in mind that their use had to be made as

19     safe as possible.  This is the only difference.  I repeat:  Serbs already

20     had work obligation in order to keep companies running, in order to be

21     able to supply our units, in order to keep the war going on.  Our

22     priority, like in every war, were war activities and provisions for units

23     engaged in the war, and deployed in the field.  This order of the

24     defence ministry means that Croats and Muslims should be made useful.

25     They were not supposed to only sit at home but also to be made -- feel

Page 44432

 1     useful and involved in the life of society, although the society was a

 2     far cry from a normal peacetime society because there was war going on.

 3     But we tried to make sure that their engagement in war units did not

 4     compound the security situation even further.

 5             JUDGE KWON:  Back to you, Ms. McKenna.

 6             MS. McKENNA:  Thank you, Your Honour.

 7        Q.   Mr. Tadic, you talk about making Croats and Muslims feel useful

 8     and involved and as safe as possible in your work obligation units.  An

 9     investigation took place into the war crimes committed in Sanski Most

10     municipality in 1996, and the criminal report that was issued against you

11     and other members of the Sanski Most authority detailed that during this

12     work obligation, during the forced labour, that was carried out under

13     your authority, non-Serbs were taken to the front line to dig trenches,

14     carry ammunition and wounded, and many were killed in so doing.

15     Non-Serbs were used as human shields and sent to minefields, and

16     non-Serbs were subjected to physical and psychological torture.  Now,

17     that was the reality of the forced labour to which non-Serbs were

18     subjected under your authority; isn't that correct?

19        A.   Can I see the table that you showed me just a while ago?  I would

20     like to use it to illustrate my answer.

21             JUDGE KWON:  Page 4 of this document?

22             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] You see here, this is a table with

23     the exact breakdown of people from various places.  You can see that

24     there are 14 locations mentioned here with Muslims who were living there,

25     and you see an overview of the work obligation places.  It says local

Page 44433

 1     commune, military battlefield, military logistics, military wood

 2     chopping, socially owned enterprise.  This is a table showing where

 3     Muslims were engaged in various work obligation units.  My task, or our

 4     task, was to use the available population and to select those who were

 5     fit for various jobs and to send them wherever they were needed to

 6     perform those tasks from the --

 7             MS. McKENNA:

 8        Q.   Sending them wherever they were needed included sending them to

 9     the front line and sending them to clear minefields and sending them to

10     their deaths; isn't that correct?

11        A.   I sent many more Serbs to their deaths.  This is about 113 people

12     being sent to the front line.  We, however, sent thousands upon thousands

13     to the front lines.  If I sent thousands of Serbs to the front line, why

14     wouldn't I send a hundred Muslims to carry water, to dig trenches, and so

15     on and so forth?  Because we didn't consider Republika Srpska only a

16     Serbian state.  It does bear -- it does have the word Serb in its title,

17     but we never thought that non-Serbs would not be living in our state.  A

18     state is as fortunate as it can afford rights and happiness to its

19     minorities.  Many more Serbs were killed by our enemies, and those were

20     Croats and Muslims who were shooting at us.  It is not only about the 113

21     who were sent to the front line to help the Serbian army in their

22     activities.  It was my task to mobilise people and to send them to those

23     units or to other units, as you can see from the table.  As I've already

24     told you, Serbs were also engaged in work in privately and socially owned

25     enterprises.

Page 44434

 1             Once conditions were in place, when the situation was safe, we

 2     could send Muslims to work there.  Why would we send somebody to get

 3     killed if the situation was not safe?  Obviously, those who inflicted

 4     harm on somebody else will have to answer God for that, not only courts.

 5     I had meetings with all those people.  Not a single person was sent to

 6     the front line without me telling him with a lot of love that only

 7     hardships would await him there, and I did the same with the Serbs.  But

 8     I thought that people had to help, that they had the obligation to help

 9     because a new Republika Srpska was being created.  The previous state was

10     broken up by people who hated, and we wanted to create our state from

11     love.  How could I be an aggressor on my own land?  How could I be an

12     aggressor in my own homeland of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

13        Q.   Thank you.  You have answered the question.

14             MS. McKENNA:  I would like to tender that exhibit, Your Honours.

15             JUDGE KWON:  We will receive it.

16             THE REGISTRAR:  Exhibit P6541, Your Honours.

17             MS. McKENNA:  That completes my cross-examination, Your Honours.

18     Thank you.

19             JUDGE KWON:  Yes, Mr. Karadzic.

20             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you.  Good morning,

21     Your Excellencies.  Good morning to everybody.

22                           Re-examination by Mr. Karadzic:

23        Q.   [Interpretation] Good morning, Mr. Tadic.

24        A.   God speed be with you, Mr. President.

25        Q.   Please make a pause between my question and your answer.

Page 44435

 1             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] And now I'd like to call up P6541.

 2     I'm interested in page 1.  Previous document.  6541.

 3             MR. KARADZIC: [Interpretation]

 4        Q.   Help us, Mr. Tadic, and tell us whether it is correct that this

 5     was issued on the 5th of October, 1994.

 6        A.   Yes, it is correct.

 7        Q.   Thank you.  And now can we go to page 4 and look at the table

 8     again.  Thank you.  Mr. Tadic, what I can see here are 18 villages.  It

 9     is true that -- is it true that on the 5th of October, 1994, you had

10     18 Muslim and Croat villages predominantly inhabited by Muslims and

11     Croats?

12        A.   Yes, Mr. President.  This is correct, and this tallies with the

13     statement that I provided.

14        Q.   Thank you.  Did you not expel them already in 1992?

15        A.   No.  You can see --

16             MS. McKENNA:  Mr. Karadzic's questions are blatantly leading.

17             JUDGE KWON:  Very much.

18             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes.  We can rephrase.

19             MR. KARADZIC: [Interpretation]

20        Q.   You were asked about deportations, forcible deportations of the

21     population.  In October 1994, were these pure Muslim and Croat villages?

22     Did the people remain living there?

23        A.   Yes.  They remained living there.  It is correct that they were

24     there.  Those who did not want to leave were -- or if they requested

25     subsequently to be allowed to leave, I organised meetings with them.

Page 44436

 1     They were never forced to be deployed to work obligation units.  All

 2     those tasks were preceded by conversations where they were told what they

 3     were supposed to do and how they were supposed to do.  I was sincere with

 4     those people and I tried to convince them that something new was being

 5     created, that no harm would befall them, and all that they could not

 6     accept that, they could not love us, they could still be convinced that

 7     I, as authority, would protect them.  And they felt that on numerous

 8     occasions, I protected them, and not only myself, but also everybody else

 9     who constituted authorities in the municipality of Sanski Most.

10        Q.   Thank you.  Can you please tell the Trial Chamber what kind of

11     obligations exist in wartime?

12        A.   In a war, priority was to mobilise people for war units.  It was

13     a very tall order.

14        Q.   Thank you.

15        A.   And second of all, there was work obligation for everybody, for

16     Serbs and Muslims, to provide for the army units.

17        Q.   Thank you.  Were Muslims duty-bound to join war units, to shoot

18     and to fight?

19        A.   No.

20        Q.   And what about Serbs?  Were they duty-bound to join war units and

21     to be deployed?

22        A.   Yes, that was their obligation.

23        Q.   Were people paid in war units and in work obligation units?

24        A.   Yes.

25        Q.   Was a distinction made between the Serbs who were deployed in

Page 44437

 1     war -- work obligation units and Muslims?

 2        A.   No.

 3        Q.   What was better for the people, to be in a war unit or in a work

 4     obligation unit?

 5        A.   Many people were afraid of being killed or wounded.  Many of the

 6     combatants asked me to transfer them to a work obligation unit, and when

 7     a healthy and able bodied person had to be transferred from a war

 8     obligation unit -- to a work obligation unit to a war unit, that was also

 9     difficult task.  We protected Muslims and Croats from any bigger harm, at

10     the same time allowing them to feel useful as a member of our society, as

11     members of the state of Republika Srpska.

12        Q.   Thank you.  We no longer need this document.  It's

13     self-explanatory.  Please bear with me for a moment.

14             On page 4 of the previous document, P3657, mention is made of the

15     pressures, and the document number is 3664, pressures on the government

16     to allow Muslims to leave.  Who was it who put the pressure to bear on

17     the government?

18        A.   I have to admit one thing to you.  I have dozens of

19     thank-you notes from people who thank me for my engagement in helping

20     them to leave Sanski Most.  They have been sending me such letters over

21     the past years.  Muslims and Croats wanted to leave the territory so

22     badly that we sometimes could not meet their requests.  However, we tried

23     to make their departure as humane as possible with as few consequences as

24     possible, because we were aware that we were creating a state that cannot

25     persist on the evil and on crimes because every crime is a crime

Page 44438

 1     primarily for the human soul.  And we all tried very hard, and that

 2     includes our President Karadzic, who is a believer and a good person.

 3     And you saw that yesterday that in Banja Luka, the first word he

 4     mentioned was democracy, which means that he is a person who, together

 5     with the Serbian Democratic Party, wanted to form a state that we would

 6     not be ashamed of.

 7        Q.   We saw the minutes of a meeting, the document number was P3657,

 8     when Vrkes spoke.  Was that recorded or was that just transcribed by the

 9     person who took the minutes?

10        A.   I believe it was just transcribed by that person who took the

11     minutes.

12        Q.   Thank you.  On page 101 of yesterday's transcript, it was

13     suggested to you, and it was read to you, that on the 28th people were

14     first to jump and then they were killed.  According to what you know, did

15     the 6th Sana Brigade open fire on civilians and was the culture of

16     attacking civilians being fostered by us?

17             JUDGE KWON:  Yes, Ms. McKenna.

18             MS. McKENNA:  Objection.  That is a leading question and already

19     the witness has made it clear that he didn't know anything about the

20     incidents.

21             JUDGE KWON:  Yes.  Will you move on, Mr. Karadzic.

22             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you.

23             MR. KARADZIC: [Interpretation]

24        Q.   On page 99, it was suggested to you that there were prisoners and

25     you agreed that there were indeed prisoners.  The question contained the

Page 44439

 1     word "civilians."  Were civilians detained in Sanski Most if they had not

 2     been involved in fighting?

 3        A.   There were two groups of people:  Those who were detained after

 4     having acted against the army and against civilians, those were truly

 5     detained, true prisoners; and the second group involved transfer to a

 6     certain facility in order to avoid any major incidents.

 7        Q.   Thank you.  What about Vrhpolje and Tominska Palanka?  Are they

 8     in Sanski Most?

 9        A.   No.  Those settlements are not in Sanski Most.  They are about 15

10     to 20 kilometres away.

11        Q.   I apologise.  Are they parts of the municipality of Sanski Most?

12   (redacted)

13   (redacted)

14   (redacted)

15   (redacted)

16   (redacted)

17   (redacted)

18   (redacted)

19   (redacted)

20   (redacted)

21             JUDGE KWON:  Inappropriate question.  Have you done with your

22     re-examination?

23             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] No, I have two or three more

24     questions.  Very well, then.

25             MR. KARADZIC: [Interpretation]

Page 44440

 1        Q.   Did that unit break a law or did it violate the customs of war?

 2             MS. McKENNA:  Objection.  Once again the same objection, it's

 3     totally inappropriate question.

 4             JUDGE KWON:  Did the witness not say that he didn't know about

 5     it?

 6             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] No, no.  When it comes to the

 7     transfer of the population from one village to another, he's aware of

 8     that and he said so.  The Prosecution asked him about deportations.  Now

 9     I'm asking him whether the removal of the population from one village

10     is -- to another constitutes deportation.

11             JUDGE KWON:  Whether a certain act is a violation of custom of

12     war, I don't think it is for this witness to answer the question.

13             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Excellencies, with all due

14     respect, this witness was a representative of the Ministry of Defence in

15     his municipality and he knew what was -- he knew the dos and don'ts and

16     he is familiar with the law.

17             JUDGE KWON:  But please move on.

18             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you.

19             MR. KARADZIC: [Interpretation]

20        Q.   On page 98, you were asked about events in the town itself

21     concerning Mahala on the 27th of May, and you stated that you were not in

22     town but in Palanka.  What is the distance between Sanski Most and

23     Lusci Palanka?

24        A.   Twenty-five kilometres.

25        Q.   Thank you.

Page 44441

 1             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Let's show 65 ter document 04898.

 2     Could it be shown to the witness, please.

 3             MR. KARADZIC: [Interpretation]

 4        Q.   Could you please assist the witness to use the stylus to show

 5     Lusci Palanka and the route that you had to take through Muslim villages

 6     that you mentioned yesterday between Sanski Most and that place?  A KDZ97

 7     witness -- witness was KDZ97, under 92 bis.

 8        A.   [Marks]

 9        Q.   Could you please indicate the route you had to take to reach

10     there?

11        A.   [Marks]

12        Q.   Thank you.  That will be the 25 kilometres; is that right?

13        A.   Yes.

14        Q.   Could you please encircle the Muslim villages that you had to go

15     through to get there?

16        A.   [Marks]

17        Q.   Thank you very much, Mr. Tadic.  Could you please place the date

18     and your initials on the bottom.

19        A.   [Marks]

20        Q.   Thank you.

21             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I would like to tender this

22     document into evidence.

23             JUDGE KWON:  Yes.

24             THE REGISTRAR:  It receives Exhibit D4164, Your Honours.

25             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you.

Page 44442

 1             MR. KARADZIC: [Interpretation]

 2        Q.   On page 97, it was suggested to you that 6th Sana Brigade took

 3     part in occupying the municipal building.  Who occupied that building?

 4        A.   It was occupied mainly by Muslims.  I'm not sure how many Croats

 5     there were.  They barricaded themselves in that municipal building,

 6     desiring to regain power from that building, power in the municipality of

 7     Sanski Most, although the SDS had won the elections in Sanski Most and,

 8     of course, they elected the president of the municipality.

 9        Q.   Thank you.  Do you know, or could you explain to the Chamber how

10     was it possible for the war to start in Sarajevo on the 5th of April and

11     in Sanski Most on the 25th of May?

12        A.   Thanks to the arrival of the brigade and what I discussed.

13             MS. McKENNA:  Objection.

14             JUDGE KWON:  Is it related to the cross-examination?

15             MS. McKENNA:  That was my objection, Your Honour.  It's outside

16     the scope of the cross-examination, the start of the war in Sarajevo on

17     the 5th of April.

18             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Excellencies, with all due

19     respect, the Prosecution suggested that the Serbs attacked but war was

20     preserved there for two months.  I'm inquiring about a municipality where

21     the Serbs are in power and there is 50/50 per cent of the population and

22     I'm asking why didn't they attack right away and not two months later.

23     It was suggested on page 97 that something happened on the 12th of July.

24     Well, by the 12th of July, the work had flared up.

25             JUDGE KWON:  I don't think that arises from the line of

Page 44443

 1     cross-examination.

 2             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you.

 3             MR. KARADZIC: [Interpretation]

 4        Q.   You were shown the publication, "Informator [phoen]," and you

 5     were told that this was a propaganda.  What was the target audience of

 6     that publication?

 7        A.   Well, to everybody, Serb population and everybody else, whoever

 8     could get hold of a copy could read it.

 9        Q.   Thank you.  Was there any propaganda in that publication?  Did

10     the contents contravene the facts?

11        A.   Well, it may seem that the texts were harsh but this was nothing

12     compared to what our ancestors had to go through and suffered a couple of

13     decades earlier.  I would like to tell the Chamber that the hardship that

14     was imposed on us Serbs by the Germany -- by Germany and the fascists and

15     the Ustashas was such -- such large scale that we had suffered atrocities

16     which were not replicated in 1 per cent in the latest war.  Five and a

17     half thousand people were, on St. Elijah Day, killed and murdered.  And

18     in Jasenovac, which is a concentration camp that was never investigated

19     properly, was the terminus point for thousands of people from Sana.  And

20     there were many more pursuant to German sources, and those wounds were

21     still fresh.  And in 1914, that very Serb people had to suffer such

22     hardship.  Fifty-six per cent of males in Serbia were killed in

23     World War I.  The only country whose army had to flee to another country,

24     to Greece, to survive.  Two great evils had been committed against the

25     Serb people in the preceding century, and thank God for that brigade

Page 44444

 1     because that enabled us to maintain peace for an additional two months

 2     without suffering and without victims and sacrifice.

 3        Q.   Thank you very much, Mr. Tadic, I have no further questions.

 4             JUDGE KWON:  Well, that concludes your evidence, Mr. Tadic.  On

 5     behalf of the Chamber, I'd like to thank you for your coming to The Hague

 6     to give it.  Now you are free to go.

 7             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you very much.

 8                           [The witness withdrew]

 9             JUDGE KWON:  Yes, Ms. McKenna.

10             MS. McKENNA:  Your Honour, it's probably best if we move into

11     closed session, I think.

12             JUDGE KWON:  Yes, could we move into private session briefly?

13                           [Private session]

14   (redacted)

15   (redacted)

16   (redacted)

17   (redacted)

18   (redacted)

19   (redacted)

20   (redacted)

21   (redacted)

22   (redacted)

23   (redacted)

24   (redacted)

25   (redacted)

Page 44445

 1   (redacted)

 2   (redacted)

 3   (redacted)

 4   (redacted)

 5   (redacted)

 6   (redacted)

 7   (redacted)

 8   (redacted)

 9   (redacted)

10   (redacted)

11   (redacted)

12   (redacted)

13   (redacted)

14   (redacted)

15   (redacted)

16   (redacted)

17                           [Open session]

18             THE REGISTRAR:  We are in open session, Your Honours.

19             JUDGE KWON:  And I take it the next witness is ready,

20     Mr. Robinson?

21             MR. ROBINSON:  Yes, Mr. President, the next witness is

22     Marko Adamovic.

23             MS. EDGERTON:  Good morning, Your Honours.

24             JUDGE KWON:  Good morning, Ms. Edgerton.

25             MS. EDGERTON:  I just wonder, I have a couple of points to raise

Page 44446

 1     with respect to the rendering of four adjudicated facts that the witness

 2     dealt with, pardon me, in his statement and I wonder if it might be

 3     better just to make those points before he comes into the room.

 4             JUDGE KWON:  Please go on.

 5             MS. EDGERTON:  So in -- this refers to adjudicated facts

 6     discussed in paragraphs 7, 17, 18 and 19.  With respect, first of all, to

 7     paragraph 7, which deals with adjudicated fact 2433, I want to note that

 8     the version of the adjudicated fact discussed in the witness's statement

 9     deletes the location of Krasulje which is included in the original

10     adjudicated fact.  So it should read:  Armed clashes broke out in

11     Krasulje between local Muslims, and so forth.

12             And the adjudicated fact referred to in paragraph 17, I, actually

13     with respect to that fact, don't quite know what's going on, because the

14     reference to 3500 houses which the witness discussed is -- appears in

15     adjudicated fact 2448, not 2450.

16                           [The witness entered court]

17             MS. EDGERTON:  And adjudicated fact 2450 reads completely

18     different, I think.  It says:  Following the Crisis Staff's order, a

19     Catholic church, at least four Muslim monuments in Kljuc, including the

20     Atik mosque in the town of Kljuc, were either completely destroyed or

21     heavily damaged by fire and explosives set by Serb forces.  So I actually

22     can't quite figure that one out.

23             JUDGE KWON:  Very well.

24             MS. EDGERTON:  Now, with respect to adjudicated fact 514 in

25     paragraph 18, adjudicated fact 514 also says something completely

Page 44447

 1     different.  It reads:  On 27 March 1992, the Serbian Republic of

 2     Bosnia-Herzegovina Assembly established the Serbian MUP, and so forth and

 3     so on.

 4             And then with respect to 2428, finally, in paragraph 19, the

 5     version discussed by the witness does not include the first phrase in the

 6     original adjudicated fact, which is "in the days following 5 May 1992"

 7     these events happened.

 8             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] If I may provide an answer, with

 9     your leave.  Adjudicated facts are so composite and complicated as well

10     as many questions put forward by the Prosecution.  We do not deny that

11     the MUP had been established, but it was stated there that non-Serb

12     policemen were fired.  Those facts are entwined in such a way.

13             JUDGE KWON:  No, that's nothing to do with the objection raised

14     by Ms. Edgerton.  I'll deal with it when we discuss the admission of this

15     statement.  Very well.

16             Would the witness make the solemn declaration, please.

17             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will

18     speak the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

19                           WITNESS:  MARKO ADAMOVIC

20                           [Witness answered through interpreter]

21             JUDGE KWON:  Thank you, Mr. Adamovic.  Please be seated and make

22     yourself comfortable.

23             Before you commence your evidence, Mr. Adamovic, I must draw your

24     attention to a certain rule of evidence that we have here at the

25     Tribunal, that is Rule 90(E).  Under this rule, you may object to

Page 44448

 1     answering any question from Mr. Karadzic, the Prosecutor or even from the

 2     Judges if you believe that your answer might incriminate you for -- in a

 3     criminal offence.  In this context, "incriminate" means saying something

 4     that might amount to an admission of guilt for a criminal offence or

 5     saying something that might provide evidence that you might have

 6     committed a criminal offence.  However, should you think that your answer

 7     might incriminate you and, as a consequence, you refuse to answer the

 8     question, I must let you know that the Tribunal has the power to compel

 9     you to answer the question.  But in that situation, the Tribunal would

10     ensure that your testimony, compelled under such circumstances, would not

11     be used in any case that might be laid against you for any offence, save

12     and except the offence of giving false testimony.

13             Do you understand that, Mr. Adamovic?

14             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I've understood, Your Honours.

15             JUDGE KWON:  Thank you.  Please proceed, Mr. Karadzic.

16                           Examination by Mr. Karadzic:

17        Q.   [Interpretation] Good morning, Mr. Adamovic.

18        A.   Good morning, Mr. President.

19        Q.   I have to ask you as any other witness speaking Serbian to make a

20     pause between questions and answers, and to proceed at a steady pace for

21     everything to enter into the transcript.

22             Did you give a statement to my Defence team, Mr. Adamovic?

23        A.   Yes.

24        Q.   Thank you.

25             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Let's please show 1D9595 in

Page 44449

 1     e-court.

 2             MR. KARADZIC: [Interpretation]

 3        Q.   Can you see that statement on the screen in front of you?

 4        A.   Yes, Mr. President.

 5        Q.   Thank you.  Did you read and sign that statement?

 6        A.   Yes.

 7             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Could we please show the last page

 8     to the witness so that he can see and identify his signature.

 9             MR. KARADZIC: [Interpretation]

10        Q.   Is this your signature?

11        A.   That is my signature.

12        Q.   Thank you.  Does this statement reflect what you said to the

13     Defence team?

14        A.   Yes, Mr. President.

15        Q.   Thank you.  If I were to ask you the same questions today as you

16     were asked by my associates, would your answers in essence be the same?

17        A.   Yes, they would be the same.

18        Q.   Thank you.

19             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I would like to tender this

20     statement pursuant to the Rule 92 ter.

21             JUDGE KWON:  Do you have any observation as to the two paragraphs

22     in which the adjudicated fact numbers were erroneously referred to, i.e.,

23     para 17 and para 18?

24             Yes, Mr. Robinson.

25             MR. ROBINSON:  Yes, Mr. President, first of all, I would like to

Page 44450

 1     apologise for that.  As you know, the Prosecution filed a written

 2     pleading indicating that there were errors in the numbers of adjudicated

 3     facts and we directed our Case Manager to correct those errors but

 4     unfortunately, that job apparently wasn't done 100 per cent successfully.

 5     As far as the remedy, I think it's best to just leave -- this is a

 6     statement signed by the witness.  I think it's best to just leave it in

 7     there.  These adjudicated facts are referred to for the convenience of

 8     the Chamber in deciding whether they have been rebutted and don't

 9     constitute the evidence of the witness.  The evidence is his answer.  So

10     we will inform the Chamber by e-mail of the correct adjudicated fact

11     numbers, but I don't think there is any need to change the statement.

12             JUDGE KWON:  I don't follow your statement that they don't

13     constitute the evidence of the witness.  What did you mean, Mr. Robinson?

14             MR. ROBINSON:  Well, for example, if you look at number 17, which

15     appears to be maybe a compilation of multiple adjudicated facts or a

16     merging of them, the evidence is what the witness states and then he

17     describes what happened during that period.  So the fact that it's

18     adjudicated fact number 2450 in the statement and it's really maybe

19     adjudicated facts 2448 through 50, doesn't affect his evidence.

20     Similarly for number 18, the reference to adjudicated fact number 514,

21     the number is somehow different.  It doesn't really affect his evidence

22     as to what he explains happened with his contacts with his Muslim

23     friends.  So I think we can remedy it without altering the statement.

24     But if you prefer us to alter the statement, we can do that.  My only

25     concern was whether that's a good thing to do after -- when the witness

Page 44451

 1     has already signed the statement like this.

 2             JUDGE KWON:  Yes.  I would prefer the second option.  I would

 3     like the Defence to redact those two paragraphs later on and -- and if

 4     the Defence wants to lead evidence as to this part, it should be led

 5     live.

 6             MR. ROBINSON:  That wasn't actually one of the options that I had

 7     suggested, Mr. President.  I was not talking about redacting the

 8     paragraph but changing the number of the adjudicated fact that's referred

 9     to.  We don't have time to lead this evidence live and that seems to be

10     an unnecessary penalty for a clerical error.

11             JUDGE KWON:  No, it's not a penalty, it's up to the Defence.  And

12     as to the remaining paragraphs, I think it will do no harm in admitting

13     as it is with your caveat.  Yes, the witness statement will be admitted

14     into evidence.  Shall we assign a number for that.

15             THE REGISTRAR:  It's D4165, Your Honours.

16             JUDGE KWON:  And I take it there is no associated exhibits being

17     tendered, Mr. Robinson?

18             MR. ROBINSON:  That's correct, Mr. President.

19             JUDGE KWON:  Very well.

20             Please continue, Mr. Karadzic.

21             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you.

22             Now I'm going to read in English a brief summary of

23     Mr. Marko Adamovic's statement.

24             [In English] Marko Adamovic worked at the Kljuc Territorial

25     Defence Staff from 1976 until 1989.  After that, he moved to the Kljuc

Page 44452

 1     municipality assembly to work on duties pertaining to Defence preparation

 2     in 1998 -- in 1989, and he stayed there until the start of the war in BH.

 3     The court of BH initiated criminal proceedings against him for war crimes

 4     in Kljuc, and in the first instance judgement he was acquitted of -- on

 5     all counts.  Proceedings are currently ongoing before the appeal chamber.

 6             After the first incidents caused by the extremists, there was

 7     some chaos which lasted until the political authorities of Kljuc, the VRS

 8     and the civilian police were established.  The roads were cut off,

 9     telephones were down and the security of citizens regardless of their

10     affiliation and ethnic background was under threat.  Individuals and

11     groups wandered around the territory to acquire personal gain.  When the

12     Serbian authorities restored order, they also tried to establish peace

13     and security for all people of Kljuc.  Adamovic's unit, that is the

14     Kljuc Battalion, received the task of controlling the territory with the

15     goal of protecting all the people in the area.  The unit carried out the

16     task, treating every citizen professionally, humanely and honestly.

17             In Velagici, there was a clash with the people who were found in

18     possession of weapons and military equipment.  Some of those persons who

19     had been brought in tried to escape and the guards opened fire on them.

20     The people who fired on the detained Muslims were arrested and

21     proceedings were conducted against them.  The grounds were not -- the

22     guards were not members of either VRS or the police from Kljuc.

23             During the clashes in the territory of Kljuc municipality, which

24     lasted about 20 days, there was considerable destruction of material

25     goods.  As for the destruction of buildings, whether individual

Page 44453

 1     residential units or religious, this was not done by the army or police.

 2     During interventions and arrests of Muslim paramilitary units, the

 3     civilian population was called on to come out to an open space so that

 4     the legal military and police forces could see that they were not armed.

 5     The army shelled only the places where the armed extremists were hiding,

 6     and not populated areas.

 7             The political leadership of Kljuc municipality made an offer for

 8     all the people to stay in the area and live with the Serbs in peace.

 9     About 3.000 Muslims stayed to live in Kljuc in 1992/1993 and nobody

10     mistreated them.  Some Muslims joined the VRS voluntarily, and some

11     joined the civilian police on a voluntary basis too.  However, after the

12     first incidents, all those who had someone in third countries tried to

13     leave the municipality.  This was true not only for the Muslims and

14     Croats but also for the Serbs.  The reasons to leave were primarily

15     security, fear of war and fear of famine because the corridor was closed.

16     Food and medicine supplies were low and there was no electricity or any

17     other basic necessities for life.  When a curfew was imposed it applied

18     to all people and not only the Muslims.

19             Everybody was free to choose whether to leave or stay, since the

20     SDS of Kljuc municipality did not plan any ethnic cleansing of the

21     non-Serbian population.  The Red Cross helped people who voluntarily

22     wanted to leave Kljuc and there was no need for any permit to be issued

23     by the municipal authorities.  The transport was organised privately or

24     by companies and not by the police.  Mr. Adamovic learned from his Muslim

25     friends that the Muslim authorities had ordered them not to stay in any

Page 44454

 1     institution of Republika Srpska.  In Pudin Han village, they formed the

 2     Muslim municipality of Kljuc together with the staff of units of the

 3     Territorial Defence.  Furthermore, in all local communes where the

 4     majority of the population was Muslim, they issued a decision to secede

 5     from RS.  In the whole territory of the municipality, there were joint

 6     check-points until May the 20th, 1992.  They consisted of Serbs, Muslims

 7     and Croats and functioned until the Muslims left them following the

 8     instructions from their relevant organs from Sarajevo.

 9             And that is a short summary.  At that moment, I would not have

10     any questions.

11             JUDGE KWON:  Yes, Ms. Edgerton.

12             MS. EDGERTON:  Well, Your Honour, since Dr. Karadzic read out in

13     his summary that Adamovic was attached to a unit which was the

14     Kljuc Battalion and that's not contained anywhere in the witness's

15     written evidence, I would think Dr. Karadzic -- it would be incumbent

16     upon Dr. Karadzic to lead that evidence.

17             JUDGE KWON:  That's fair enough.

18             Yes, Mr. Karadzic.

19             MR. KARADZIC: [Interpretation]

20        Q.   Mr. Adamovic, I'm not sure I understood what the -- wherein the

21     omission lay.  Well, could you please tell us what was your connection

22     with the battalion, the Kljuc Battalion, or with the Defence effort as a

23     whole?

24        A.   Mr. President, the Kljuc Battalion was not the Kljuc Battalion.

25     It was called so by the people.  It was a battalion of the

Page 44455

 1     30th Infantry Division which was deployed in the area of Mrkonjic Grad.

 2     We were summoned, called up, in the regular way and the battalion was

 3     established in the area of Sitnica.  As I said, it was a part of the

 4     1st Battalion Sipovo Jajce Brigade.  It was past the 30th Division.

 5     I was assistant commander or deputy commander and assistant for morale

 6     and religious and legal issues.  The 30th Infantry Division used the

 7     battalion as the 1st Light Infantry Brigade, that is.

 8        Q.   Thank you.

 9             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Would that suffice?  I thought that

10     this was contained somewhere in the witness statement.

11             JUDGE KWON:  Mr. Adamovic, as you have noted, your

12     evidence-in-chief in this case has been admitted in its most part in

13     writing; that is your written statement.  And now you'll be

14     cross-examined by the representative of the Office of the Prosecutor.  Do

15     you understand that?

16             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I understand.

17             JUDGE KWON:  But for now, we will have a break for half an hour

18     and resume at five past 11.00.

19                           [The witness stands down]

20                           --- Recess taken at 10.35 a.m.

21                           --- On resuming at 11.07 a.m.

22             JUDGE KWON:  Yes, Mr. Tieger.

23             MR. TIEGER:  Thank you, Mr. President.  May we move very briefly

24     into private session, please?

25             JUDGE KWON:  Yes.

Page 44456

 1                           [Private session]

 2   (redacted)

 3   (redacted)

 4   (redacted)

 5   (redacted)

 6   (redacted)

 7   (redacted)

 8   (redacted)

 9   (redacted)

10   (redacted)

11   (redacted)

12   (redacted)

13   (redacted)

14   (redacted)

15   (redacted)

16   (redacted)

17   (redacted)

18   (redacted)

19   (redacted)

20   (redacted)

21   (redacted)

22   (redacted)

23   (redacted)

24   (redacted)

25   (redacted)

Page 44457

 1                           [Open session]

 2             THE REGISTRAR:  We are in open session, Your Honours.

 3             JUDGE KWON:  Thank you.  Shall we bring in the witness?

 4                           [The witness takes the stand]

 5             JUDGE KWON:  Yes, Ms. Edgerton, please proceed.

 6             MS. EDGERTON:  Thank you.

 7                           Cross-examination by Ms. Edgerton:

 8        Q.   Mr. Adamovic, I want to start by just asking you a little bit

 9     about the war crimes proceedings in front of the state court in Bosnia

10     that Dr. Karadzic alluded to in his summary, and you refer to in your

11     statement.  Now, you said that these proceedings are presently before the

12     appeals chamber.  In fact, what happened in your case is after you were

13     acquitted at the first instance, the matter went to appeal and the

14     appeals chamber ordered you be retried; right?

15        A.   Yes.

16        Q.   And that trial took place in March of this year, and the verdict

17     hasn't been rendered yet, has it?

18        A.   That's correct.

19        Q.   And the verdicts only -- they only expect the verdict to be

20     rendered some time later this month, in fact, in December 2013; right?

21        A.   On the 12th of December.

22        Q.   So to be perfectly correct, you're actually still under

23     indictment for charges relating to allegations of war crimes in Kljuc in

24     1992, aren't you?

25        A.   I think I am a suspect.

Page 44458

 1        Q.   Some of the offences that you were charged with include the

 2     killing of a number of people in Pudin Han around 28 May 1992; right?

 3        A.   No.

 4        Q.   We'll have a look at your indictment later.  In fact, among the

 5     offences that you're charged with is included the killing of people in

 6     Prhovo on or around the 1st of June, 1992, and the killing of men,

 7     77 men, at a school in Velagici on or around June the 1st, 1992; right?

 8        A.   Correct.

 9        Q.   These killings that I've just referred to, you're not denying

10     they happened, are you?  Because you actually confirmed in your statement

11     that innocent civilians were killed in Prhovo and people were shot at

12     Velagici while they were trying to scape.  You're not denying them.  They

13     happened; right?

14        A.   I'm not denying, Your Honours.

15        Q.   And your position at your trial with respect to these offences

16     was that when they happened, you weren't there; right?

17        A.   That's right.

18        Q.   So on the 27th of May, 1992, you said at your trial that you were

19     in Mrkonjic Grad; right?

20        A.   Not concerning these events.  I was not in Mrkonjic Grad when the

21     killings in Velagici and Prhovo happened.  I was in Kljuc at the time,

22     but I was not on the scene.

23        Q.   At your trial, and Mr. Adamovic, I've listened to the transcript,

24     I've listened to the trial as it was going on live and I heard you say

25     that on 27 May 1992, you were in Mrkonjic Grad conducting reconnaissance.

Page 44459

 1     That's what you told the Court in Bosnia-Herzegovina; right?

 2        A.   I said that on the 27th of May, but you mentioned the 1st of June

 3     when the killings in Velagici and Prhovo happened.  At that time, I was

 4     in Kljuc.  However, on 27 May, I was in Mrkonjic Grad.

 5        Q.   And on the 10th of July, you were at Mrkonjic Grad as well?

 6        A.   On the 10th of July, I was in Mrkonjic Grad.

 7        Q.   And the evidence you gave at your trial was that on the

 8     1st of June, you were at a meeting of the Crisis Staff in Kljuc; right?

 9        A.   Right.

10        Q.   Now, your position at your trial was that you weren't a member of

11     the Crisis Staff but you attended their sessions; correct?

12        A.   Right.

13        Q.   And you went there to brief your immediate superior, your brigade

14     commander?

15        A.   Correct.  My brigade commander was present at the Crisis Staff

16     and on the orders of my battalion commander I went to inform my commander

17     on the situation in the unit.

18        Q.   And you also briefed your division commander, General Galic.  You

19     said that at your trial.  You went to the Crisis Staff meetings and there

20     you briefed your brigade commander and General Galic; right?

21        A.   I briefed my commander, Lieutenant-Colonel Vukasevic, but I also

22     stated that Galic was present at that meeting, once or twice, not every

23     time.

24        Q.   Well, in fact, what you said at your trial was:  With respect to

25     the Crisis Staff every time I went there, there was the same group of

Page 44460

 1     people, and I note that I never went there without

 2     Lieutenant-Colonel Vukasevic or Galic being present.  That's what you

 3     said.

 4        A.   Generally speaking, yes.  Perhaps he was absent a couple of times

 5     but after all this time I can't remember.

 6        Q.   And these -- and you briefed them, these briefings, and their

 7     presence there was to make sure that everybody was on the same page,

 8     right, to make sure all the activity in the area was co-ordinated?

 9        A.   I don't know the answer to that question.  I only know that

10     I reported to my superior on the situation in the unit.  Now, how the

11     information I gave would be used by someone else, I didn't know then and

12     I don't know now.

13        Q.   All right.  And you briefed them often, you briefed them on a

14     daily basis at that Crisis Staff, sometimes even twice a day; right?

15        A.   Perhaps it happened once that I briefed them twice in one day,

16     but generally speaking, I informed not the Crisis Staff but my superior

17     commander, and in that period, that was only five times.  And twice

18     I reported to my superior at the War Presidency because I was there only

19     from 28 May until the 28th of June.

20             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Transcript.

21             JUDGE KWON:  Yes.

22             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I believe the witness said until

23     the "20th June," not "28."

24             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] 20th of June.

25             JUDGE KWON:  Thank you.

Page 44461

 1             MS. EDGERTON:

 2        Q.   So if you don't know what the purpose of your briefing the

 3     Crisis Staff, your immediate superior, General Galic, during these

 4     Crisis Staff meetings would have been, I take it you're not a political

 5     man.  You didn't pay any attention to what was going on during those

 6     meetings?

 7        A.   I was present at that meeting only the time it took me to do my

 8     duty and brief them, and then I left.  There were sessions when I stayed

 9     on a bit longer, but, for the most part, I didn't stay until the end of

10     the session while they were doing other things, dealing with other

11     matters.

12        Q.   And during your trial, you also gave evidence that until 1993,

13     you were never a member of the SDS; right?

14        A.   Correct.  I was president of the SK, the movement for Yugoslavia,

15     at the level of the municipality south.  That has been established

16     through all my witnesses.

17        Q.   And you actually only joined the party so that you could keep

18     your job; right?  That was your evidence in your trial.

19        A.   I said at the trial that I joined the party towards the end of

20     1993, and/or the beginning of 1994.  A recommendation came down that

21     assistant commanders for moral guidance, religious and legal affairs

22     should be involved in the party; in other words, it was necessary for

23     them to be members of the SDS.  At that time I signed the paper joining

24     the SDS and that, too, was established at the trial.

25        Q.   And so you weren't a member of the Crisis Staff, you weren't a

Page 44462

 1     member of the SDS and you also weren't a member of the War Presidency for

 2     Kljuc municipality, were you?

 3        A.   No.

 4        Q.   All right.

 5             THE ACCUSED:  Just a moment.  I would like to clarify, we have

 6     problem with the negation in Serbian and in English.  Sorry, in

 7     translation was that a no would be contrary to the meaning.

 8             JUDGE KWON:  The witness confirmed that he was not a member of

 9     the Crisis Staff.  Were you a member of the Crisis Staff, Mr. Adamovic?

10             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No.

11             JUDGE KWON:  Is it clear to you, Mr. Karadzic?

12             THE ACCUSED:  Yes, Excellency, but in Serbian, translation was

13     different.

14             JUDGE KWON:  Very well.  Shall we continue.

15             MS. EDGERTON:  So --

16             JUDGE KWON:  But before we continue --

17             MS. EDGERTON:  Of course.

18             JUDGE KWON:  -- I'd like to make it clear, what the Chamber

19     ordered to redact from paragraph 17 and 18 from his statement is that

20     the -- the reference to the adjudicated facts, so the part which appears

21     after, "I can state the following" can remain in both paragraphs.

22             MR. ROBINSON:  Thank you, I didn't understand it that way.  Thank

23     you very much.

24             MS. EDGERTON:  Thank you.

25        Q.   So having put politics aside, let's talk about your military

Page 44463

 1     function.  You explained to Dr. Karadzic that the Kljuc Battalion wasn't

 2     actually -- it was only called the Kljuc Battalion by the people and you

 3     said you were deployed in the area of Mrkonjic Grad.  I'd like us to have

 4     a look at a document in that regard, please.  It's 65 ter number 00895.

 5             So Mr. Adamovic, you've seen this document before, I know.  It's

 6     dated 2nd November, 1993, and it's drafted by Slavko Culic, who succeeded

 7     Colonel Vukasevic as your brigade commander, and it's a supplement to the

 8     monograph of the first --

 9             THE ACCUSED:  Sorry, no translation.  So far I didn't hear.

10             JUDGE KWON:  Very well.  If you could repeat, Ms. Edgerton.

11             MS. EDGERTON:  Sure.

12        Q.   So we are now talking about the Kljuc Battalion because you told

13     Dr. Karadzic the Kljuc Battalion was only called that by the people and

14     you said you were deployed in the area of Mrkonjic Grad.

15             Now, you've seen this document before, Mr. Adamovic, and I'd like

16     us to go over to page 3 in B/C/S and page 2 in English, please.  Now,

17     Mr. Adamovic, this document, this military report, specifically refers to

18     the Kljuc Battalion as being formed on 18 April 1992, and lists you as

19     its deputy commander; right?

20        A.   Yes.  That's right.  Except, Your Honours, one needs to read this

21     sentence till the end.  The Kljuc Battalion which became part of the

22     1st Light Infantry Brigade, as its 3rd Infantry Battalion, was stationed

23     in the area of the village of Sitnica.  It was called sometimes the

24     Kljuc Battalion because all the members were from Kljuc.  But, actually,

25     it was part of the 3rd Infantry Battalion.  That's what I stated and

Page 44464

 1     that's how it was, and I was assistant commander of that battalion.

 2        Q.   Now, let's go over to page 3 in English and let's have a look at

 3     what the battalion was doing, and we can stay on the same page in B/C/S.

 4     This document says, Mr. Adamovic, when the armed conflict in Kljuc began,

 5     the entire battalion was relocated to the region outside Kljuc from where

 6     it was deployed to mop up the town and the surrounding settlements.  The

 7     decision to assign this task - I'll just wait a second - to the battalion

 8     was issued on 27 May 1992.  And the document lists the deployment areas

 9     of the 1st and 2nd Company.  My question to you is:  That's your

10     battalion this passage is referring to; right?  Yes or no?

11        A.   That's correct.

12        Q.   The battalion's task was to disarm paramilitary formations and

13     arrest them; right?

14        A.   In this document, I just saw that this was written by

15     Lieutenant-Colonel Culic.  Culic joined that brigade after several months

16     of various actions in Kljuc.  The battalion was not engaged in combat in

17     Kljuc.  The battalion was engaged only in controlling the territory from

18     Pudin Han, Velagici, Ramici and Krasulje, controlling the road and all

19     the movements in that area of the population, goods, et cetera.  That was

20     the task of the battalion.  Why this commanding officer wrote this,

21     I can't understand.  The battalion was not employed in any other way,

22     because other units did what it says here the battalion did.

23        Q.   Let's just have a look at this for a second.  This document says

24     the 1st Company of the battalion unit attacked from the area of the

25     village Rezevici, the village of Hadzici, the village of Pudin Han.

Page 44465

 1     That's correct; right?

 2        A.   No.  The company was only transferred there in the sector of

 3     Ramici.  On the 27th there were no combat actions anyway.

 4        Q.   How would you know that when you said you weren't there?

 5        A.   On the 27th, I arrived at Kljuc at night and the battalion could

 6     not have been without us, without the command.  We came to Kljuc on the

 7     night of the 27th, and that's the truth.

 8        Q.   So when you said in your trial on 27 May 1992, you were in

 9     Mrkonjic Grad conducting reconnaissance, was that also the truth?

10        A.   Yes.  I was involved in reconnaissance that morning and during

11     the day, and we arrived at Kljuc around 2000 hours.

12        Q.   Now, if you go down further in the same document in English, last

13     paragraph, and then go over to the next page in B/C/S, this document

14     talks about the battalion's deployments the following day.  The following

15     day, it says:  The battalion was deployed to carry out the same task in

16     the area of the village of Pudin Han, Vukovo Selo, Humici, Plamenice,

17     Vrhovo and Peci.  A mopping-up operation in the villages of Kamicak and

18     Vrhpolje ensued.  That's true; right?  That's your battalion.

19        A.   This is not true.  It's not correct.  And during my trial, we

20     established and proved that the battalion was not involved in any combat

21     operations.  Why this commander who came later wrote this, including

22     about some other battalions such as the Jajce and Sipovac Battalion,

23     I can't understand.  But during my trial, we proved undeniably,

24     irrefutably that my battalion was not involved in these events.

25        Q.   Well, Mr. Adamovic, we can go to the judgement in your first

Page 44466

 1     instance trial and see if what you said holds true because it's available

 2     on the internet and we'll do that later on.

 3             Let's leave this document aside for a minute, and leaving

 4     deployments aside for a minute.

 5             JUDGE KWON:  Are you tendering this?

 6             MS. EDGERTON:  Yes, I was going to come back to it, but for the

 7     sake of reference why don't we just give it a number now.

 8             JUDGE KWON:  Yes, we'll receive it.

 9             THE REGISTRAR:  Exhibit P6543, Your Honours.

10             MS. EDGERTON:  Thank you.

11        Q.   Now, we've talked about Crisis Staff meetings and meetings that

12     you attended, and I'd like to have a look at minutes of meetings of the

13     Kljuc Crisis Staff, that's P2606.  These are meetings from May to

14     July 1992.  Now, you've seen this document before as well, Mr. Adamovic.

15     So since you have --

16        A.   Yes.

17        Q.   Since you have, I'll go straight over to English page 10, B/C/S

18     page 34, and that should show us minutes from the meeting of 3 June 1992.

19     Could we just try the next page in B/C/S -- in B/C/S, please.  It seems

20     like every second page has this name and date stamp.

21             Now, these minutes refer to your presence, Mr. Adamovic, at the

22     meeting of June 3rd, and they describe you as the Kljuc defence commander

23     and I want to show you another page.  Let's go over to English page 17,

24     B/C/S page 49, minutes of the 16th of July, 1992 -- pardon me,

25     16th of June, 1992.  These minutes also describe you as defence

Page 44467

 1     commander.  And we can actually even pop back over to minutes of the

 2     meetings of the 4th of June, if you'd like to see them, English pages 11

 3     and 12 and B/C/S page 37.  There, again, you're also described as defence

 4     commander.

 5             Now, you told this Chamber that you were never a commander of the

 6     Kljuc Battalion.  We've seen, in the last document, P6543, you were

 7     actually a deputy commander.  You've told this Chamber that you were a

 8     deputy commander for morale and religious affairs.  That document we just

 9     saw, P6543, makes no mention of you having the position of deputy

10     commander for morale and religious affairs.  Instead, what we have here

11     now, in June of 1992, is you noted by the Crisis Staff as being a defence

12     commander, and that was defence commander for the city of Kljuc, wasn't

13     it, Mr. Adamovic?

14        A.   It says in the minutes what it says but that was not the case,

15     Your Honours.  Please allow me to explain.  I'll just need two sentences

16     and I won't be long.  On the 1st of June, the commander of the

17     30th Division came with an order to establish the command of town

18     defence.  He brought that order and in view of the situation on the

19     ground - and let me not go into the details of what the town command was

20     supposed to do - several officers had suggestions and proposals as to who

21     that should be.  According to one of the suggestions, I was supposed to

22     be the commander of the town defence, but one session was not enough.

23     The corps commander had to issue an order to appoint the town commander

24     and the town command had to be established.  I was told, orally, to

25     prepare myself to become the town commander, but that lived for only

Page 44468

 1     three days.

 2             A subsequent order came to set up the

 3     17th Light Infantry Brigade.  Commander Drago Samardzija came and the

 4     setting up of the brigade started on the 6th of June.  On the 1st of

 5     June, we received that first order to set up the town command.  Those

 6     people who made those records, I don't know what to call them, they

 7     tended to call everybody commander.  During those first days they called

 8     even me commander.  However, the command of the town defence was never

 9     set up because, instead, the brigade was established, and I became the

10     assistant commander of the brigade for moral guidance and legal and

11     religious affairs.  That was established during my trial, and that was

12     how things indeed were.

13        Q.   So these minutes aren't accurate, is that what you're saying?

14        A.   In my view, the title is not correct.  I can't talk about any

15     minutes.  I never took any minutes.  What that person meant is entirely

16     up to him.  What I'm saying is this:  The town command was never set up.

17     There is not a single document corroborating the setting up of the town

18     command.  The town command didn't exist.  Therefore, it did not issue a

19     single order or a single document.  I believe that you have that document

20     talking about the setting up of the town command where it says the town

21     commander will be, and then an empty dotted line, and the rest of the

22     document, the dotted line was never filled out because the town commander

23     was never appointed because he was supposed to be appointed by the

24     commander of the 1st Corps.  He was the person in charge of setting up

25     all the commanders within the corps.  Why he didn't appoint him, because

Page 44469

 1     four days later there was a change and the 17th Light Infantry Brigade

 2     was established.  I became a member of the 17th Light Infantry Brigade on

 3     the 4th of June.  You can see that in my personnel file.  I'm sure that

 4     you can gain access to the personnel files of that brigade and you will

 5     find me there.

 6        Q.   Now, Mr. Adamovic, you just said there is not a single document

 7     corroborating the setting up of the town command.  It's -- in fact,

 8     Mr. Adamovic, there is also not a single document corroborating your

 9     presence at the meeting of the Crisis Staff on 1st of June, 1992, is

10     there?  In fact, to the contrary, these minutes, and if we can go over in

11     English to page 7, these minutes for the meeting on the 1st of June,

12     1992, don't list you among the participants.  B/C/S page 27, please.

13             Mr. Adamovic, you weren't there and you're grabbing at this as

14     the only possible opportunity to alibi your presence at Prhovo on the

15     1st of June, 1992.

16        A.   Your Honours, I believe that this is only Madam Prosecutor's

17     assumption, a mere assumption.  The position of the town defence

18     commander does not presuppose the command of a unit.  If I was a town

19     defence commander I would have never been in command of any unit.  The

20     town commander is never in charge of any unit, a smaller unit or a bigger

21     unit for that matter.  And if I had ever been supposed to be the town

22     commander, I would not have been in Prhovo -- I could not appoint myself.

23     You don't have those minutes but I have them.  Are you not willing to

24     show the minutes here?  Or I can't say.  But I have the minutes of the

25     1st where the town command was discussed and an order did arrive that the

Page 44470

 1     town command should be established.  I was present.  I don't know whether

 2     you have those minutes or not, but I have them.

 3        Q.   Mr. Adamovic, you're looking at them, and my question to you was:

 4     Mr. Adamovic, there is not a single document corroborating your presence

 5     at the meeting of the Crisis Staff.  You have in front of you the minutes

 6     of the meeting of the Crisis Staff of the 1st of June, 1992.  It's two

 7     pages.  When the witness has had a look at the first page, we can flip

 8     over to the second page.  You're not there.

 9        A.   Your Honours, according to those minutes, I was not present.

10     However, there were sometimes two or even three different sessions.

11     I suppose that I was not there when those minutes were taken.  However,

12     in the course of that day, there were two or three sessions in view of

13     the crisis.  I attended that evening's session and I had arrived to

14     inform the commander about the situation in the unit and then the

15     proposal arrived to set up the town defence command.  That document

16     exists.  It was issued on the 31st of May and it was presented at the

17     meeting in Kljuc on the 1st of June.  Why the second set of minutes is

18     not there, I really don't understand.

19        Q.   You're not answering my question.  You haven't got a single piece

20     of paper to corroborate your presence at a Crisis Staff meeting on the

21     1st of June, 1992, have you?

22        A.   I stated that I had that paper.  It is not here, I don't know

23     why, but I have it.

24        Q.   What do you have, Mr. Adamovic?  And you knew you were coming

25     today, you knew you were coming for a long time ahead of time.

Page 44471

 1     Mr. Adamovic, are you saying that you have evidence that confirms your

 2     presence at this meeting on the 1st of June, 1992, and you didn't bring

 3     it?  Mr. Adamovic, you didn't bring it at your own trial in

 4     Bosnia-Herzegovina either, did you, because it doesn't exist?

 5        A.   I had that document -- I didn't bring it myself because the

 6     Prosecutor showed it to the Trial Chamber, and it is in the file of that

 7     case, but I did not know that I was coming here to be questioned as a

 8     suspect, and you are now questioning me as if I were accused.  That's why

 9     I don't have it.  I am here to testify and in my testimony I'm supposed

10     to follow the statement that I provided, and now you're not sticking to

11     that statement at all.

12        Q.   No, I'm not.  I want to know what you have.  Do you have a set of

13     minutes that records you as being present at a Crisis Staff meeting on

14     the 1st of June, 1992, in Kljuc?

15        A.   Yes, I do.  A set of minutes that shows that the command of the

16     defence of the town of Kljuc was set up on the 1st of June, and I have

17     those minutes.

18        Q.   Can we go over to the next page in B/C/S and in English, please.

19     Mr. Adamovic, it's not here, and you didn't offer those minutes at your

20     trial in Bosnia and Herzegovina.  You never said they existed.  That's

21     because it never happened; right?

22             MS. EDGERTON:  Sorry, you're going to have to skip over to the

23     odd-numbered pages.  I really apologise for forgetting about this.  And I

24     don't know why in B/C/S these copy certifications are uploaded as

25     separate pages.  Thank you.  Oh, now, wait a minute.  It seems like the

Page 44472

 1     B/C/S is -- the B/C/S doesn't correspond with the English translation

 2     page.  In all fairness, let me have a look at that, please.  Do you know

 3     what?  The B/C/S pages, even though they are uploaded in the way in which

 4     they are stamped with an ERN are out of order.  And in fairness to the

 5     witness, I'm not going to deal with this any more until he can get a

 6     chance to look at the correct version and I'm just going to move on, and

 7     we'll come back to it.

 8        Q.   I want to stay, Mr. Adamovic, on the subject of the take-over of

 9     Prhovo on the 1st of June, 1992, and the killings during the take-over.

10     Mr. Adamovic, when you said in your statement that the state court in

11     Bosnia acquitted you of any responsibility related to the event, you

12     actually omitted to say that they found that you were there the day

13     before the attack.  That's right, isn't it?

14        A.   Your Honours, I was there every single day in the sector where

15     things were happening, not only in Prhovo but in all of the surrounding

16     villages, because I lived there.

17        Q.   So it's correct, you were in Prhovo the day before the attack?

18        A.   Not correct.  And I never said that.  The day before the attack,

19     I was not in Prhovo.  There were witnesses who said that they saw me.

20     Allegedly, I was wearing a uniform, the others said that I had a

21     camouflage uniform, some saw me in civilian T-shirts, but I'm sure I was

22     not in Prhovo.  It was established by the Court who was there and who

23     carried out those activities.

24        Q.   The day before the attack on Prhovo, at paragraph 304 of their

25     judgement, the state court of Bosnia and Herzegovina accepted witness

Page 44473

 1     testimonies and concluded that you were present when soldiers mistreated

 2     the residents of Prhovo on the day before the attack.

 3        A.   I was not there, absolutely not.  And it was proven, contrary to

 4     the testimonies, that on that day I attended the meeting of the

 5     Crisis Staff.  On that day, the order arrived to set up the town defence

 6     command.  During my trial, it was established which units had done it and

 7     which units had been deployed in the area.  During my trial, I was forced

 8     to say the name, but the Prosecutor there did not want to accept my

 9     suggestion.  She stuck closely to the indictment and she tried her

10     hardest that I was there.  I was never in command of a military police

11     unit, and there was a military police unit there.  And I told the

12     Trial Chamber, You have a VOBH, she found mine, she could find the VOBH

13     of the military police officers who were there.  She could have listened

14     to the testimonies of a couple of people who were -- who would have

15     corroborated the fact that those military policemen were indeed there.

16     She could have done all that instead of trying to pin guilt on an

17     innocent person.

18        Q.   You talked about -- well, what you actually said about those

19     testimonies of people who put you in Prhovo, either the day before or the

20     day of the attack, was that they were lying and that you thought that it

21     was all pre-arranged.  Those lies, you thought, were all prepared in

22     advance.  That's what you said in your trial at the state court; right?

23        A.   That's correct, yes.

24        Q.   Well, Mr. Adamovic, it's not those witnesses, it's not just those

25     witnesses who testified in your trial at the state court who placed you

Page 44474

 1     in Prhovo the day before and the day of the attack.  It's a large number

 2     of additional witnesses.  Let's have a look -- just talking about the

 3     30th of May, 1992, let's have a look at 65 ter number 25732.

 4     Mr. Adamovic, this is a statement to this Tribunal taken in 1997 from

 5     Nafa Krantic, and she talks about Serb soldiers passing through her

 6     village, which was Plamenica, on 28 or 29 May, 1992.  If we could go over

 7     to the next page, please.  I'm going to read this to you because I don't

 8     think you speak English or read English.  But what Ms. Krantic says:  On

 9     Saturday, either 28 or 29 May, 1992, Serbian soldiers entered our

10     village.  They came as infantry and then one APC.  They wore regular JNA

11     uniforms.  And then she goes on and she talks about what -- their

12     feelings of fear, that the soldiers told them that nothing would happen

13     and to stay in the village.  And she says:  The commander was the

14     teacher, Marko Adamovic, whom I know.  He was teaching me in the

15     elementary school in Humici.  That day he wore a JNA uniform and I saw he

16     had some rank on his epaulettes.  That day I only recognised

17     Marko Adamovic and the soldiers passed through the village.

18             Mr. Adamovic, this woman, who didn't testify in your trial,

19     recognised you as her teacher and she recognised you in the immediate

20     area of Prhovo on 28 or 29 May, 1992.

21        A.   And what am I now supposed to say?  I claim that she did not

22     recognise me because she did not see me there.  Your Honours, during my

23     trial, there was a witness who was born in 1971, and I taught school

24     until 1972, claimed that I was a teacher, that he knew me, that he knew

25     that I was a teacher, and he had never seen me before, never.  Twelve

Page 44475

 1     years later, he claimed that he recognised Marko Adamovic's words on the

 2     bull-horn.  Let's start from the initial assumption.  If you know

 3     military structure, you will know that Marko Adamovic could not be in

 4     charge of Pragas, APCs and anything else.  It would be impossible.  But

 5     nobody prevents her from telling whatever she wants to say and it's not

 6     the truth.

 7        Q.   You were a teacher in Humici before the war, weren't with you,

 8     before you joined the Territorial Defence; right?

 9        A.   That's correct, until 1973, as a matter of fact.

10        Q.   Right.  In fact, Mr. Adamovic, there is not one, there is not

11     two, there is not three, but there is -- and this is just dealing with

12     the day before the attack, there is multiple witnesses who gave evidence

13     to this Tribunal about events in Prhovo on the 1st of June, 1992, and

14     each one reports seeing you there, and these are not witnesses,

15     Mr. Adamovic, who testified at your trial.  Let's look at

16     65 ter number 25733.  It's a statement to this Tribunal taken in 1997, so

17     five years only after the incident, from Bajro Hadzic.  He didn't testify

18     at your trial, and if you go over to page 3, if you go over to page 3,

19     the second full paragraph, he describes the 1st of June, 1992, the

20     occupation of Prhovo by soldiers.  He describes people being called out

21     through a loud speaker.  He describes seeing Marko Adamovic, who had the

22     command.  I know Marko Adamovic.  He was working in the military

23     department in Kljuc.  He was a captain in the reserves, and in Humici, he

24     was teaching children.  So you've conceded you were a teacher in Humici.

25     You were also -- it's true, isn't it, you were also a captain in the

Page 44476

 1     military reserves; right?

 2        A.   I was a teacher, and I stopped teaching and joined the TO staff,

 3     and I was a member of the reserves, and I'm not saying that people don't

 4     know me.  I'm just saying that I was not in Prhovo on the day when those

 5     activities happened.  It is well-known which unit was there, which unit

 6     was deployed in the area, and Marko Adamovic was not in command of that

 7     unit.  I have no other answers, Your Honours.

 8        Q.   We are going to look at one more document, 65 ter number 25738.

 9     It's the ICTY statement of a survivor from Prhovo by the name of

10     Azim Medanovic taken in 1997.  Now, if we go over to page 4, he says,

11     about halfway down the page:

12             "Of all the Serbs there in Prhovo on the 1st of June, 1992,

13     I recognised only Marko Adamovic.  He wasn't masked, it was obvious he

14     was in charge.  I remembered him from the time when he was a teacher in

15     Peci.  I'm not sure I would recognise him now, but I did at the time."

16             And further on on this same page, Mr. Medanovic describes being

17     separated from the women and children in Prhovo, being marched out of the

18     village in a column.  He describes you taking a microphone, ordering

19     women and children to be killed, and the village burned to the ground.

20     In the column, this witness says you ordered it was -- it be split in

21     two.  This witness says you beat him.  This witness describes how five

22     people who couldn't stand up after being beaten were killed.  He

23     describes how a soldier singled out a 16-year-old from the column and

24     shot him after you called out that there were too many of them.  And he

25     was saved, this witness, when one of his prospective executioners

Page 44477

 1     recognised him.

 2             Mr. Adamovic, these people have lost family, friends.  They have

 3     been beaten.  They have been threatened.  They have been detained.

 4     You're still indicted, though.  These witnesses have no interest in

 5     telling anything but the truth.  It's in your interest, still under

 6     indictment, to exculpate yourself from the charges you faced in

 7     Bosnia-Herzegovina, isn't it?

 8        A.   No.  Your Honours, fully consciously, I state with all moral and

 9     other responsibility, that I did not carry out those actions that the

10     witnesses are mentioning.  Nobody is prohibited from saying what they

11     think or any other information -- or to share any other information.  It

12     was proven at trial because there was this activity, it was known who was

13     involved, there is a written order - maybe you, lady, don't know that -

14     by the commander of the 1st Corps specifying which unit was supposed to

15     go there.  And I'm reiterating this was a platoon of the military police

16     from Banja Luka, from the 1st Krajina Corps.  It went there to control

17     the territory.  At the exit of Prhovo village, they were caught in an

18     ambush by a paramilitary armed group who opened fire at a column, killed

19     some civilians, and then there was a conflict.

20        Q.   If you weren't there, how do you know so much about what was

21     going on?

22        A.   I did not finish, Your Honours.

23        Q.   No, Mr. Adamovic --

24        A.   And that is when the conflict --

25        Q.   -- answer my question, please.  If you weren't there, how do you

Page 44478

 1     know enough to give us this explanation?

 2        A.   I was about to explain.  I know about these things because the

 3     officer in question at the meeting concerning the establishment of the

 4     town defence command, that officer came in, and I have witnesses from the

 5     Crisis Staff members who attended -- the members attended the meeting saw

 6     that officer who came in crying.  He said that I was there with Pragas

 7     and APCs, we were ambushed, one member of the military was killed, and

 8     Prosecution witnesses confirmed that, and then after that, that soldier

 9     was killed, there was spontaneous fire being opened, quite a lot of

10     people were killed, he was crying, and he asked for some people to be

11     sent there to expect what was -- what had been done to the civilians.  In

12     my defence, I don't want to be responsible for somebody others' actions,

13     Your Honours.  I stated the name of that officer and stated the -- which

14     unit was involved there.  And if this is not true, I offer my head on the

15     block.  I wanted to help the prosecution to blame those responsible, but

16     they didn't want to.  They wanted to frame me.  But truth will out

17     eventually.

18        Q.   Well, Mr. Adamovic, you said you had witnesses from the

19     Crisis Staff who could talk about this story.  I'm going to just read you

20     the evidence of one of the Crisis Staff members, Mr. Rajko Kalabic, and

21     I apologise if I mispronounce it, that he came to testify before a

22     Chamber of this Tribunal in the case against Brdjanin.  And he talked

23     about the events in Prhovo on the 1st of June, 1992, at transcript

24     pages 22664 and 22665.  He said nothing about someone coming into the

25     meeting afterwards and upset about what had happened in Prhovo.  In fact,

Page 44479

 1     he said:  It was only after the event that the information reached the

 2     Crisis Staff, whether it was on the same day or one or two days after the

 3     events, I can't say.  So the Crisis Staff member who came to testify here

 4     in defence of Mr. Brdjanin says something completely different to you.

 5     The truth is:  You were there, and it's only in your interest to deny it.

 6        A.   No, Your Honours.  Rajko Kalabic testified in my trial as well

 7     and corroborated what I'm saying, and some other members of the

 8     Crisis Staff as well.  Maybe he wasn't asked about that in that other

 9     trial.  Maybe at that time he did not know what was going on after so

10     many years, but he did testify in my trial, and he corroborated the words

11     that I'm offering to you here and now.

12        Q.   Ah, so you're saying that Mr. Kalabic gave different evidence at

13     your trial in Bosnia-Herzegovina than what he gave on the same subject as

14     a defence witness here at this Tribunal?  That's what you're saying?

15        A.   I'm saying that he did testify that on that day I did attend the

16     meeting of the Crisis Staff and that I wasn't in Prhovo.

17        Q.   Let's move on to a different subject.  I want to just touch on

18     some of the incidents that you discussed in paragraph 3 of your

19     statement, under the heading, "Paramilitary and para police organisation

20     incidents in Kljuc."

21             Now, all of those incidents -- and you've got a copy of your

22     statement in front of you so you look at paragraph 3.  All of those

23     incidents happened on the 27th of May, 1992; right?

24        A.   Yes, those that I mentioned.  That's correct.

25        Q.   And all those incidents that you refer to happened at a time when

Page 44480

 1     Serb authorities were in total control of Kljuc municipality, didn't

 2     they?

 3        A.   No.

 4        Q.   All right.

 5        A.   The municipality of Kljuc was controlled by two, not just the

 6     Serbian authorities, but also the Muslim authorities.  On the 27th, the

 7     municipality was split into two territories, that under the Serbian

 8     authorities and that under the Muslim authorities, because they

 9     seceded --

10        Q.   Mr. Adamovic, these incidents happened in areas that were under

11     the control of Serbian authorities at that time; right?

12        A.   No.

13        Q.   I'm going to show you a document.

14        A.   Those incidents took place in the area controlled by the Muslim

15     forces.  In Velagici, Ramici and Crljeni.

16        Q.   All right, given your answers I want to show you a document.

17     It's P3438.

18             JUDGE KWON:  There seems to be a technical difficulty with

19     e-court.  Shall we break now?

20             MS. EDGERTON:  Fine.

21             JUDGE KWON:  Very well.  We'll have a somewhat early lunch break.

22     We will resume at 10 past 1.00.

23                           --- Recess taken at 12.21 p.m.

24                           --- On resuming at 1.14 p.m.

25             JUDGE KWON:  Yes, please continue, Ms. Edgerton.

Page 44481

 1             MS. EDGERTON:  Thank you.  We left off trying to have a look at

 2     P3438, if my colleague could bring that up on the screen.  All right.

 3        Q.   Mr. Adamovic, what you see in front of you are minutes of the

 4     8th meeting of the Kljuc Crisis Staff on 23 April 1992.  And at this

 5     meeting, in the third paragraph under point 1, on the page in front of

 6     us, you see Veljko Kondic, who is president of the SDS municipal board,

 7     say:

 8             "Serbs are the majority population in Kljuc.  We control all the

 9     important positions."

10             Actually, I think in B/C/S it might be on page 2.  Yes.  I think

11     so.  So Kondic says:

12             "Serbs are in the majority in Kljuc.  We control all the

13     important positions."

14             And if we go over to page 2 in English, and page 3 in B/C/S,

15     paragraph 2, you see Mirko Rosic say -- he tells people at the meeting,

16     at the Crisis Staff meeting:  The SUP is ours.  And there is nothing to

17     divide.  So, Mr. Adamovic, we left talking about -- we broke off before

18     lunch talking about Serb authorities being in total control of Kljuc

19     municipality, and it doesn't take a politician to figure out that what

20     Kondic is saying is that by the end of April, all power in Kljuc was

21     controlled by the Serbs.  That's what Kondic and Rosic are saying, isn't

22     it?  All power in Kljuc is controlled by the Serbs.

23        A.   I was not involved in those party political meetings.  I was not

24     there.  And I personally, my opinion is, if you wish to hear it, is that

25     most of the authority in the territory of Kljuc was in the hands of the

Page 44482

 1     Serbs.  But in mid-May, there was a splitting up of the municipality into

 2     two parts, and that territory which was predominantly populated by the

 3     Muslims was -- was under the control of the Muslim leadership, MBO and

 4     the SDA, and they separated the Pudin Han, Velagici, Krasulje, Filipovici

 5     and other villages, that area predominantly populated by the Muslims

 6     split off from the municipality.  They issued decisions on that split,

 7     and, for that reason, I believe that they controlled that particular

 8     territory.  They formed municipal staff of the TO, units of the TO, and

 9     they armed people, controlled the territory, set up check-points,

10     facilities, et cetera, et cetera.

11        Q.   And you took them back; right?  You took those places.

12     Pudin Han, Velagici, Krasulje and other villages, you took them back;

13     right?  That's what happened.

14        A.   Kljuc did not retake those villages.  I see this differently.

15     I see this from a military point of view.  After the ambush at -- of the

16     line of young soldiers departing from Zadar towards Serbia, which was

17     ambushed in Kljuc, there was a double ambush in Velagici and Pudin Han by

18     the Muslims.  They attacked six or seven young soldiers.  Nineteen were

19     injured.  The 1st and the 2nd Krajina Corps units intervened there and

20     those units took that area.

21        Q.   You're repeating your statement and that wastes time.  You've

22     taken all that time to say to us that the 1st and 2nd Krajina Corps

23     intervened and those units took that area, so what I put to you was

24     right.  You took it back; correct?

25        A.   I answered you that this wasn't done by the civilian and other

Page 44483

 1     organs of the Kljuc municipality.  These were military organs.  My

 2     purpose when answering was to express that.

 3        Q.   Well, let's have a look at what the civilian authorities of Kljuc

 4     municipality did.  I'd like to get out D1724, please.  It's a public

 5     announcement from the Kljuc Crisis Staff, Mr. Adamovic, and it's dated

 6     8 May 1992, so it's a little over a week after the document we just

 7     looked at.  And this document informs the public that since the

 8     7th of May, 1992, the police in the whole municipality are going to be

 9     wearing blue berets with the Serbian flag and that from this point

10     forward, a Serb flag would fly from the Kljuc municipality building,

11     signifying the fact that Kljuc municipality is now a part of the

12     autonomous region of Bosanska Krajina and the Serbian Republic of

13     Bosnia and Herzegovina.  So, Mr. Adamovic, what the -- what the -- what

14     the authorities did is, on the 7th of May, 1992, they put into effect a

15     unilateral political and military take-over of control of the

16     municipality, and all aspects of life in it.  That's what this document

17     shows.  Isn't that the case?

18        A.   Your Honours, I cannot comment on this public announcement.

19     I did not take part in forming that decision.  I wasn't there.  At that

20     time I was with my unit 20 kilometres away, and I cannot comment or be

21     responsible for the activities or for the consequences stemming from this

22     public announcement or this decision.

23        Q.   We'll move on.  Now, we looked earlier on today at a document

24     that's now got the number P6543, and it was a supplement to the monograph

25     related to the 1 KK, and you said, with respect to that document, that it

Page 44484

 1     was effectively a fabrication by the man who came to be your brigade

 2     commander.

 3             MS. EDGERTON:  We could have it up just so the witness remembers

 4     what he gave that comment on.  P6543.

 5        Q.   And what you said, when we talked in terms of this document about

 6     military operations by your battalion, was that you couldn't understand

 7     why the brigade commander wrote it; right?  Do you remember that?

 8        A.   I remember saying that.

 9        Q.   All right.  Let's have a look at P5406, then, please.  This --

10     you would recognise this sort of a document.  This is a daily combat

11     report from the command of the 1st Infantry Brigade - and we can go over

12     to the second page and Mr. Adamovic can see who signed it - to the

13     command of the 30th Infantry Division.  See, it's got the typewritten

14     signature of Milorad Vukasevic.  That's your commander.  Now, we can go

15     back to the first page in both languages, bullet point 2, and have a look

16     at bullet point 2, the second-to-last paragraph of bullet point 2.

17     Sorry, I've got my numbering wrong.  I apologise.  The second-to-last

18     paragraph of bullet point 2 is on the second page in English.  Could you

19     go to page 2 in English?  My apologies.  There we go.

20             That paragraph says, I think you have to do the same in B/C/S,

21     but I'll read it for Mr. Adamovic.  It says:  Because of the situation in

22     Kljuc, the 3rd Battalion was -- of the 1st Infantry Brigade was made

23     fully combat ready as ordered.  If the Muslims don't surrender their

24     weapons by 27 May 1992 at noon, the battalion will carry out a mopping-up

25     operation.  And to this battalion, Combat Group 2 has been attached and

Page 44485

 1     has been under our command since last night.

 2             That's your battalion; right?

 3        A.   Well, he was the commander, I don't know about this document.

 4     I wasn't battalion commander.  This, as you know, is addressed to

 5     battalion commanders, such documents as this.  He could tell you more

 6     about that.  I couldn't.  I wasn't the commander.  I didn't even know it

 7     existed.  Brigade commander issues orders to battalion commanders,

 8     assistant commanders for moral guidance do not command battalions.  I

 9     cannot comment on this document.  I did not receive it.

10        Q.   Well, you said you didn't know why P6 -- why your commander at

11     the time wrote P6543, why that monograph was written, why it had those

12     deployments set out in it.  What this document you're just looking at

13     shows you, Mr. Adamovic, is that the monograph or the supplement to the

14     monograph was written that way because it's true.  This document confirms

15     exactly what was written in P6543, in terms of the deployment of your

16     battalion, doesn't it?

17        A.   Your Honours, I stated that it was unclear to me why battalion

18     commander, who subsequently came to that post after Vukasevic, wrote

19     this.  For this reason, at that time, the battalion could not have been

20     issued with a combat task.  We had not been equipped, no ammunition, was

21     not trained for that.  The battalion was rather deployed to control the

22     territory between Pudin Han and Krasulje, inclusive of both villages, and

23     this was where the battalion was deployed on the 29th or the 30th and it

24     did -- it would stay put, it would carry out control of territory

25     operations, and sometime around 20th of June, that battalion went to

Page 44486

 1     Jajce as part of the Tactical Group 2 and carried out activities in the

 2     territory of Mrkonjic Grad municipality.  What I do know and what I do

 3     state is that my battalion - I had left by that time - never committed

 4     any evil acts in the areas where it held control.  I can say before this

 5     forum that the citizens of Krasulje, Ramici, cried when the battalion set

 6     off towards Jajce because they thought who would guarantee them safety

 7     after they are gone?

 8        Q.   This is -- we are getting off topic.  Let's stick with this time

 9     period.  You talked in your answer about the 29th and 30th of May, and

10     said that your battalion was deployed to control the territory between

11     Pudin Han and Krasulje, and I'd like to have a look at 65 ter 25725,

12     please.  And we'll look at what your battalion was doing on the

13     30th of May.  This is a combat report from the command of the

14     1st Infantry Brigade Sipovo command to the 30th Infantry Division and

15     it's dated on 30 May 1992.  So we need to go over to page 2 in both

16     languages, please, and I want to look at the second-to-last subparagraph

17     of bullet point 2.  That says, in the Velagici, Kula, Pudin Han area, the

18     3rd Battalion is conducting mopping up of Green Berets who are

19     surrendering in droves.  Some of the Green Berets have fled and are in

20     hiding.  One of our soldiers was killed.

21             Mr. Adamovic, they weren't controlling the area.  They were

22     clearing the area out of non-Serbs, and that's what this document shows.

23     What you're saying isn't true.

24             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Objection.

25             JUDGE KWON:  What objection, Mr. Karadzic?

Page 44487

 1             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] It doesn't say non-Serb population,

 2     it says Green Berets.

 3             MS. EDGERTON:  Fine.

 4        Q.   Clearing the area of Green Berets.  What you said your battalion

 5     was doing is completely untrue and that's what this document shows.

 6     Isn't that the case?

 7        A.   This is not the case.  I state that the battalion did not carry

 8     out any mopping-up operations.  I can bring you 300 witnesses to testify

 9     to that.  The battalion was transferred through that area and was tasked

10     with controlling the road in the area of Pudin Han, et cetera.  But the

11     mopping up operations were carried out by other units but not mopping-up

12     operations.  They were after a sabotage group that had carried out an

13     attack in the area of Busija and this was done by units of 1st and

14     2nd Krajina Corps, the 3rd Battalion did no such thing.

15        Q.   So we've looked at three separate military reports from the

16     3rd Battalion.  You're saying all of them are lies.  Is that your

17     evidence?

18        A.   My evidence is that the battalion did not participate in these

19     combat activities.  It participated in controlling the territory.  That's

20     what I maintain.

21        Q.   So your evidence, despite what this document says, your evidence

22     is that the battalion was not involved in mopping up; right?  It was not

23     involved in mopping up the Green Berets?

24        A.   That's right.

25        Q.   Had nothing to do with clearing the area of non-Serbs, despite

Page 44488

 1     what these three documents say?

 2        A.   No.

 3             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Objection again.  Again non-Serb

 4     population.

 5             MS. EDGERTON:  With respect, Your Honours, I'm entitled to put

 6     our case to the witness.

 7             JUDGE KWON:  Yes, yes, please carry on.

 8             MS. EDGERTON:  Thank you.

 9        Q.   So that would mean that your battalion was lying in their reports

10     to General Galic and General Talic; right?

11        A.   I don't maintain that he was lying.  You should ask perhaps the

12     author, the commander, why he wrote that.  Maybe initially he did get

13     that task but I know that that task was not executed, and the battalion

14     did not mop up the terrain from Green Berets as it says there, in the

15     municipality of Kljuc.  It simply wasn't involved in combat activities

16     one single day.

17        Q.   But you weren't there, so on what basis can you possibly deny the

18     veracity and the accuracy of these reports?  Your evidence is you weren't

19     there.

20        A.   Excuse me, which date is it, in the order?

21        Q.   But you -- you've read it.  You know that it's the 30th of May.

22     You've said you weren't there.  You've said you weren't there at any of

23     these critical moments.  You said that you were not in Prhovo on the

24     30th of May.  You said you were not in Pudin Han on the 30th of May.  So

25     on what basis are you saying that these documents, these military

Page 44489

 1     reports, are untrue?

 2        A.   I didn't say that I wasn't there.  I was part of the battalion on

 3     the 30th of May.  I didn't say I wasn't there.  I was a member of the

 4     battalion.  But the battalion was active on the axis Pudin Han-Sanski

 5     Most, et cetera.  And the battalion was not involved in the

 6     Pumici [phoen]-Plamenica-Prhovo axis or in the mopping up of the terrain,

 7     and from that trial in Sarajevo, my trial, it was possible to make that

 8     finding, I believe the Trial Chamber made that finding, and made the

 9     judgement as it stands.

10             MS. EDGERTON:  Could I tender this as a Prosecution exhibit,

11     please, Your Honour?

12             JUDGE KWON:  Yes.  We will receive it.

13             THE REGISTRAR:  It's P6544, Your Honours.

14             MS. EDGERTON:  Thank you.

15        Q.   To move on to another area, Mr. Adamovic, you talked in

16     paragraph 11 of your statement about the killings at Velagici and you

17     said that 12 members of the unit responsible were arrested and

18     proceedings conducted against them.  So when you say the unit

19     responsible, members of the unit responsible, you're referring to the VRS

20     soldiers who were responsible for the killing of these prisoners at

21     Velagici; right?

22        A.   No.  That's not right.  In my statement, I said that units from

23     the territory of Kljuc, or the units of the VRS, were not responsible.

24     It was JNA units which were in that area and were moving from Croatia

25     that stayed in Laniste and were responsible.  Twelve of their members

Page 44490

 1     perpetrated what they perpetrated.  The authorities of Kljuc immediately

 2     arrested these men.  The responsible judicial authority, and I don't know

 3     who else, conducted an on-site investigation, the perpetrators were

 4     arrested, judged and sent to serve their sentence in Banja Luka.  And

 5     that's why I said that the authorities had done their job, as best they

 6     could.  They made the arrests, but it was not VRS members or members of

 7     the units from Kljuc.

 8        Q.   Well, clearly, Mr. Adamovic, when you said in your statement that

 9     you didn't know any of the details, that was absolutely correct because

10     what happened was that those VRS soldiers responsible were arrested a

11     couple of days after the killing.  They were released from custody.  An

12     investigation -- they were still out of custody in March of 1993 when the

13     first request for investigation into the incident was launched.  By

14     August -- pardon me, by July -- July 29th, 1993, more than a year after

15     that killing took place, only two of the 12 VRS soldiers responsible were

16     in custody and their detention was terminated after one month.  And,

17     Mr. Adamovic, on 29 July, 1993, the military prosecutor's office of the

18     1st Krajina Corps command proposed to halt any proceedings against these

19     12 people and the Court followed that recommendation.  The proceedings

20     never happened, they were judicially halted, there was no intention to

21     bring them to justice, and you've just told us a lie, Mr. Adamovic.

22             MS. EDGERTON:  And, Your Honours, I refer to P3614, 6143 and 3616

23     with respect to the evidence I've just cited.

24             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honours, if I may respond.

25     First of all, I don't agree with what Madam Prosecutor just said.  In my

Page 44491

 1     statement I only stated things that I know.  I don't know about

 2     everything that happened.  And I shouldn't be told that I'm lying.

 3     I only stated what I know, and I stated that in that sector, there was a

 4     unit in transit that was responsible for these acts.  I don't know about

 5     everything that happened, but I know the authorities reacted and made

 6     arrests and sent these people to the competent institution.  An on-site

 7     investigation was conducted, and I believe the authorities of Kljuc did

 8     their job properly.  As to what later happened with those soldiers,

 9     whether they went to the 1st or the 2nd Corps or before a military court,

10     I don't know.  I have no clue about these things.  And I believe that I'm

11     not lying.  I am telling only what I know and that's all I said in my

12     statement, nothing else.

13             MS. EDGERTON:

14        Q.   To move on to another topic, you said in your statement that --

15     and it was in, I think, paragraph 6 -- that 3.000 Muslims stayed to live

16     with the Serbs in Kljuc in 1992 and 1993.  But, in fact, more than

17     15.000 Muslims left, didn't they?

18        A.   I think so, but the point of my statement was to say that three

19     and a half thousand Muslims who wanted to stay stayed, that there was no

20     expulsion, because I was asked what I knew about the expulsion of the

21     Muslim people.  I know that our authorities did not persecute Muslims,

22     did not expel them.  Those who were arrested, disarmed and who were

23     responsible for some offences, they were expelled; whereas, normal,

24     peaceful Muslim people who wanted to live there were able to go on living

25     there.  And I also want to say that politics got involved.  People were

Page 44492

 1     being talked into leaving.  I have lots of friends in many circles.  I

 2     have very good friends among the people who left.  There was a lot of

 3     political pressure.  There was also much fear, chaos, panic.  And lots of

 4     people fled Kljuc, not only Muslims but also Serbs who feared joining the

 5     army, who feared crisis, war, God knows what else.  That's all I wanted

 6     to say in my statement.  That's the only point I wanted to make.

 7             MS. EDGERTON:  I think I have no further questions, Your Honours.

 8             JUDGE KWON:  Thank you, Ms. Edgerton.

 9             Do you have any re-examination, Mr. Karadzic?

10             THE ACCUSED:  Very few, Excellency.

11                           Re-examination by Mr. Karadzic:

12        Q.   [Interpretation] May I ask you, Mr. Adamovic, to explain to us

13     this last thing you said?  Which people did you mean when you said that

14     politics got involved?  Who from the politics?

15        A.   I mean Muslims.  The SDA and HVO exerted pressure on people to

16     move to other territories where Muslims were in the majority, and that

17     was the area of Bihac, Zenica, Tuzla, Travnik.

18        Q.   Thank you.  Now, could we please look at P02606, minutes of

19     Crisis Staff meetings.  You said you were mentioned as the town

20     commander.  Who else was mentioned as town commander?

21        A.   Initially, it was Bosko Lukic, major; Major Dusan Petrovic;

22     Major Branko Ribic; and Marko Adamovic.

23        Q.   What kind of educational attainment did the recording secretaries

24     on the Crisis Staff have?

25             MS. EDGERTON:  Your Honour --

Page 44493

 1             THE WITNESS:  [No interpretation]

 2             JUDGE KWON:  Just a second.

 3             Yes, Ms. Edgerton.

 4             MS. EDGERTON:  That has nothing to do with the cross-examination

 5     whatsoever.

 6             JUDGE KWON:  Correct.

 7             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Excellencies, we have to

 8     establish whether they put the correct names on various speakers.  Could

 9     we see page 21 in B/C/S?  I'll have to see the English page.  No, sorry,

10     page -- one page before, 29 May.

11             MR. ROBINSON:  While we are getting that, Mr. President, I don't

12     understand myself how when the Prosecution is relying on the accuracy of

13     the minutes of the Crisis Staff, how that question could not arise from

14     the cross-examination when the accuracy of those minutes can be

15     challenged.

16             JUDGE KWON:  Educational attainment?  I don't see where it's

17     going, even if we have any evidence about it.

18             MR. ROBINSON:  I think where it's going is calling into question

19     whether or not these minutes are accurate, but that seems to me to be

20     within the scope of the cross-examination which was what the objection

21     was.

22             JUDGE KWON:  I tend to -- very well, let's hear the evidence.

23     The witness answered the question but we didn't hear the translation.

24     Could you repeat your answer, Mr. Adamovic?

25             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Now it's not quite clear to me

Page 44494

 1     which question should I answer?  Could the question be repeated?

 2             MR. KARADZIC: [Interpretation]

 3        Q.   I said who kept these minutes at the sessions of the

 4     Crisis Staff?  What kind of education did these people have?  Were the

 5     meetings recorded or were the notes taken by hand?

 6        A.   No.  It was not recorded.  There was no electricity, not even for

 7     lighting to see properly what you're writing, let alone for recording.

 8     It was some young clerks who took these notes.  I don't know whether the

 9     officials of the Crisis Staff took any notes themselves, because

10     I attended these Crisis Staff meetings only for five, ten minutes.

11     I would come, inform my commander about the situation in my unit, he

12     would then release me, and what they did after I left, I have no idea.

13        Q.   Could you look at this session of 29 May, item 2?  Could you read

14     item 2 out loud?  Item 2.

15        A.   That a defence command be set up and Major Bosko Lukic be

16     appointed as its commander.  Until then he was Chief of Staff.

17        Q.   Can you read the first sentence.

18        A.   "The Crisis Staff is continually in session.  It is monitoring

19     all developments in the territory of the municipality because combat

20     operations are underway and information from the ground is coming in."

21        Q.   What does it mean, "is continually in session"?

22        A.   That means that the Crisis Staff is constantly at the office with

23     all of its members, and, occasionally, when they find a spare moment,

24     they have lunch and some rest, but most of the time they are in their

25     offices and busy working.

Page 44495

 1        Q.   Do all the people who come to a particular meeting come on time

 2     and stay until the end of the meeting, or are people coming and going all

 3     the time?

 4        A.   I believe most of them stayed throughout the session, but

 5     sometimes people had to leave early because among them there would be

 6     doctors and businessmen and people in different types of industry whose

 7     other engagements required their attention elsewhere.

 8        Q.   Now we need the next page, and leave the same page in English.

 9     Could you look at item 4?

10        A.   The chief of the public security station reported to the staff

11     negative events on the ground which reflect adversely on the entire

12     situation and are linked primarily to theft, breaking and entering,

13     et cetera.

14        Q.   And could you look at the entry for 30th May?  I believe it's

15     page 21.  Yes.  It's page 21 in B/C/S.  Could you tell us, what is it at

16     the bottom, considering that there is information?

17        A.   That their armed forces are in Plamenica village and have no

18     intention of surrendering --

19        Q.   May I help?  Force them by using force, the Crisis Staff needs to

20     make sure, to the extent possible, to avoid all arson, looting,

21     et cetera.

22             How does this fit in?  Is it consistent with what you know about

23     the Crisis Staff?

24        A.   I believe the Crisis Staff only tried to preserve security and to

25     create favourable conditions for a normal life for all the people who

Page 44496

 1     lived there.

 2             JUDGE KWON:  I didn't see you, Ms. Edgerton.

 3             MS. EDGERTON:  Keeping in mind that the witness has already given

 4     evidence that he was not a member of the Crisis Staff, and at temporary

 5     transcript page 40, that he was only present at -- he was present at

 6     meetings only the time it took him to do his duty and brief them, and

 7     then he left.

 8             JUDGE KWON:  I don't see the point.  What is your point,

 9     Ms. Edgerton?  So there is no point of asking this question to the

10     witness?

11             MS. EDGERTON:  Exactly.

12             JUDGE KWON:  Whether it was consistent with what he had known

13     about the Crisis Staff?  I will allow the accused to continue his

14     questioning.

15             MR. KARADZIC: [Interpretation]

16        Q.   Do you consider that you have answered this question?

17        A.   I have nothing to add.

18        Q.   Do you know of any actions of the Crisis Staff contrary to

19     this -- what we see here?

20        A.   Not while I was in Kljuc.

21        Q.   Could we now look at page 31 in B/C/S.  Can we now -- except for

22     the brigade commander, who is hiding behind these titles, commander of

23     the municipal staff, commander of the Kljuc defence command, et cetera?

24     Can we know what this recording secretary meant with any certainty?

25        A.   We cannot know that.  That's what I said before.  When this

Page 44497

 1     meeting was held, five names were on the list for this post, and party

 2     people did not want me to be the town defence commander because I was not

 3     a member of the SDS, I was a member of the SK movement for Yugoslavia.

 4     However, the officer cadre got their way and they wanted me to be

 5     accepted, and they said an order would come down to establish the town

 6     defence and to appoint the commander.  However, before that order came,

 7     which was never written, by the way, it would be in the documents

 8     otherwise - the order appointing the defence commander was never written,

 9     instead, a unit, the 17th Light Infantry Brigade was established, and

10     beginning with 4th of June, I became assistant commander for moral

11     guidance, religious and legal affairs, and I stayed in that job until the

12     end of the war and continued serving until 2003.

13        Q.   What does it say about Bosko Lukic?

14        A.   Bosko Lukic informed the Crisis Staff of the possibility of

15     procuring certain technical equipment for the needs of a future light

16     brigade which would probably be formed in Kljuc.

17        Q.   Is this what you have been talking about all this time?

18        A.   Yes.

19        Q.   Thank you.  Earlier today, it was suggested to you that the

20     Serbian Municipality of Kljuc took over the Muslim municipality of Kljuc

21     and reinstated their territories and you said that it was carried out by

22     a military body.  Were there any military reasons for the military to do

23     that?

24        A.   Yes.  There were military reasons.

25        Q.   Can you tell us more about that.  What military reasons and

Page 44498

 1     justifications were there?

 2        A.   The military justification was the fact that the

 3     Territorial Defence of Velagici had carried out an attack on the military

 4     convoy.  They did what they did and the army reacted the way they did.  I

 5     don't think that there is any military in the world that will allow

 6     others to kill the troops.  And the military was the only body that

 7     carried out the attack, and arrested armed men who belonged to the unit

 8     and who carried automatic and semi-automatic rifles, mostly small arms in

 9     any case.

10        Q.   And now the last page.  This was recorded on the

11     18th of June, 1992.  It was another Crisis Staff meeting.  It will

12     probably be on page 38.  Let's call up that page and see.

13             JUDGE KWON:  Page 20 of English?

14             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] It is possible.  The date is

15     18 June.

16             MR. KARADZIC: [Interpretation]

17        Q.   I don't have it in Serbian.  I'm going to read the text to you.

18     It says here:

19             "Marko Adamovic read the order of the brigade commander which the

20     Crisis Staff accepted."

21             What was your capacity when you were there and read out the

22     order?

23        A.   I was the assistant commander for moral guidance and religious

24     and legal affairs.  I was also assistant commander for information.  My

25     brigade commander sent me there to read that order, whatever that was.

Page 44499

 1        Q.   And that was actually the only item on the agenda of that

 2     session.  There was nothing else; right?

 3        A.   I really can't remember, Mr. President.

 4        Q.   Thank you very much, Mr. Adamovic.

 5             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I have no further questions,

 6     Your Excellencies.

 7             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.

 8             JUDGE KWON:  Yes.  It was e-court page 63 in B/C/S.  Very well.

 9     That concludes your evidence, Mr. Adamovic.  On behalf of the Chamber,

10     I would like to thank you for your coming to The Hague to give it.  Now

11     you are free to go.

12             MS. EDGERTON:  And just with respect to P2606 --

13             JUDGE KWON:  The witness can be excused.

14             MS. EDGERTON:  Of course.  What we'll do is -- pardon me.

15             JUDGE KWON:  You may be excused have a nice, safe journey back

16     home.

17                           [The witness withdrew]

18             JUDGE KWON:  Yes, Ms. Edgerton.

19             MS. EDGERTON:  I'm very sorry.  My apologies.  I didn't mean to

20     interrupt.  With respect to P2606, what we'll do is try and take the

21     pages out of the order in which they are presently uploaded and reload

22     them in a coherent order and advise my colleague, Madam Registrar, and

23     the Defence when that is done, in case we need to use it at any further

24     point.

25             JUDGE KWON:  At least we have the date correct so far.

Page 44500

 1             Yes.  Is the next witness ready, Mr. Robinson?

 2             MR. ROBINSON:  Yes, Mr. President.  It's Mikan Davidovic.

 3                           [The witness entered court]

 4             JUDGE KWON:  Would the witness make the solemn declaration.

 5             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will

 6     speak the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

 7                           WITNESS:  MIKAN DAVIDOVIC

 8                           [Witness answered through interpreter]

 9             JUDGE KWON:  Thank you, Mr. Davidovic.  Please be seated and make

10     yourself comfortable.

11             Yes.  Before you commence your evidence, Mr. Davidovic, I must

12     draw your attention to a certain rule that we have here at the

13     International Tribunal, that is Rule 90(E).  Under this rule, you may

14     object to answering any question from Mr. Karadzic, the Prosecutor or

15     even from the Judges if you believe that your answer might incriminate

16     you in a criminal offence.  In this context, "incriminate" means saying

17     something that might amount to an admission of guilt for a criminal

18     offence or saying something that might provide evidence that you might

19     have committed a criminal offence.  However, should you think that your

20     answer might incriminate you and, as a consequence, you refuse to answer

21     the question, I must let you know that the Tribunal has the power to

22     compel you to answer the question.  But in that situation, the Tribunal

23     would ensure that your testimony, compelled in such -- under such

24     circumstances, would not be used in any case that might be laid against

25     you for any offence, save and except the offence of giving false

Page 44501

 1     testimony.

 2             Do you understand that, Mr. Davidovic?

 3             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I do, Your Honour.

 4             JUDGE KWON:  Thank you.

 5             Yes, please proceed, Mr. Karadzic.

 6             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you.

 7                           Examination by Mr. Karadzic:

 8        Q.   [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Mr. Davidovic.

 9        A.   Good afternoon, Mr. President.

10        Q.   I kindly ask you to make a pause after my question so that your

11     words may be properly recorded.  Did you provide a statement to my

12     Defence team?

13        A.   Yes, I did.

14        Q.   Thank you.

15             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Could the witness please be shown

16     1D9593 in e-court.

17             MR. KARADZIC: [Interpretation]

18        Q.   Do you see the statement before you?

19        A.   Yes.

20        Q.   Did you read the statement and did you sign it?

21        A.   Yes, I did.

22             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Could the witness please be shown

23     the last page so that he can identify his signature.

24             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, this is my signature.

25             MR. KARADZIC: [Interpretation]

Page 44502

 1        Q.   Thank you.  Does the statement accurately reflect what you said

 2     to my Defence team?

 3        A.   Yes, it does.

 4        Q.   If I were to put the same questions to you today here in the

 5     courtroom, would your answers be the same?

 6        A.   Yes, they would.

 7        Q.   Thank you.

 8             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I'm tendering this statement

 9     pursuant to Rule 92 ter.

10             JUDGE KWON:  I take it also the Defence is tendering one

11     associated exhibit?

12             MR. ROBINSON:  That's correct, Mr. President.

13             JUDGE KWON:  Good afternoon, Mr. Zec, do you have any objection?

14             MR. ZEC:  Good afternoon, Your Honour, there is no objection.

15             JUDGE KWON:  We will admit them both.

16             THE REGISTRAR:  The statement receives Exhibit D4166 and the

17     associated exhibit, D4167, Your Honours.

18             JUDGE KWON:  Please continue, Mr. Karadzic.

19             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you.  And now I'm going to

20     read a short summary of Mr. Davidovic's statement in English.

21             [In English] Mikan Davidovic was born in Sanski Most municipality

22     where he lived and worked throughout the course of the conflict in

23     Bosnia and Herzegovina.  At present, he works at the Ministry of

24     Administration and Local Self-Government in the government of

25     Republika Srpska in Banja Luka.  Mikan Davidovic decided to join the SDS

Page 44503

 1     towards the end of 1991.  The SDS was established as the party of the

 2     Serbian people in response to the establishment of the SDA and HDZ.  The

 3     SDS was a democratic party with a decentralised structure.

 4     Mikan Davidovic was a member of the commission which organised the

 5     plebiscite in Sanski Most municipality.  The plebiscite ensured after --

 6     ensued after the Serbian members of the parliament of Bosnia-Herzegovina

 7     were outvoted on the issue of the independence of BH whereby the Serbs

 8     thought that they should stay in Yugoslavia.  Eventually, Muslims and

 9     Croats declared independence without Serbs.

10             The SDS never adopted any policy of persecution, forcible

11     deportation and ethnic cleansing.  The population was relocated but that

12     was due to fear of the conflicts that had broken out and the

13     deterioration of the overall security situation in economic and social

14     conditions.  The SDS state bodies of Republika Srpska and Dr. Karadzic

15     did not spread, instigate or enable a propaganda campaign among

16     Bosnian Serbs with the intention of causing fear from and hatred against

17     the Bosnian Muslims and Croats.

18             In mid-June, 1992, Mr. Davidovic was appointed as the head of the

19     department for professional and common affairs of Sanski Most

20     municipality.  During this period of time, he was not engaged in any of

21     the SDS organs.  In 1993, Mr. Davidovic was hired as the head of the

22     centre for social welfare of Sanski Most municipality.  The main

23     activities of the institution concerned the most vulnerable population

24     categories and, as part of these duties, the centre attempted to set up a

25     register of citizens in need so that humanitarian aid would be

Page 44504

 1     distributed accordingly and in the fairest possible way.  Among the

 2     needy, there were members of all ethnicities and attempts were made to

 3     ensure that all citizens irrespective of their ethnicity or religion had

 4     at least a bare minimum of life's necessities.  Once the conditions of

 5     wide-ranging tensions and fear were created, non-Serbian population

 6     started moving out of -- out from Sanski Most.  Mr. Davidovic was a

 7     member of the municipal commission for an unhindered departure which was

 8     set up to control the departure process, provide assistance and make sure

 9     that non-Serbs moved out from Sanski Most without any hindrance.

10             The assistance requested by the citizens who wished to leave the

11     municipality consisted of arranging contacts with competent institutions

12     which made appropriate transportation arrangements, collecting the data

13     from representatives of local communes and citizens from other

14     ethnicities about the number of persons who expressed a wish to leave,

15     announcing their departure to competent organs.  Nobody had ever forced

16     non-Serbs to move out.  At first, people mostly moved within Bosnia and

17     Herzegovina and then the number of requests to move abroad increased.

18     That is why, at the end of 1993, a new commission was established and

19     Mr. Davidovic became one of its members.  The commission acted upon

20     requests of those citizens who needed assistance with getting hold of

21     their visas and helped them with group applications for approvals of

22     their unhindered departure.  The process was initiated and implemented by

23     the representatives of non-Serbs.  They performed all mediation tasks in

24     relation to the take-over of the visas and established the place and time

25     of entry into Croatia.

Page 44505

 1             And that is a short summary.  At that moment, I do not have

 2     questions for Mr. Davidovic.

 3             JUDGE KWON:  For the record, I would like to note that while

 4     paragraph 22 of this witness refers to adjudicated facts -- fact 2524,

 5     this adjudicated fact 2524 actually was not admitted in this case.

 6             Well, Mr. Davidovic, as you have noted, your evidence-in-chief in

 7     this case has been admitted in writing, that is through your written

 8     statement, and now you will be cross-examined by the representative of

 9     the Office of the Prosecutor.  Do you understand that?

10             THE WITNESS:  [No interpretation]

11             JUDGE KWON:  Yes, Mr. Zec.

12             MR. ZEC:  Thank you, Mr. President.

13                           Cross-examination by Mr. Zec:

14        Q.   And good afternoon, Mr. Davidovic.

15        A.   Good afternoon.

16        Q.   You told us in your statement about your role in the SDS and the

17     municipal authorities in Sanski Most.  Apart from this, Mr. Davidovic,

18     you were also secretary of the Sanski Most municipal board and you

19     attended sessions of the Serb Municipal Assembly and Executive Board;

20     right?

21        A.   Sometimes, not all the time.  I was not always present.  Yes,

22     I discharged the duties as the secretary, but I did not attend all the

23     meetings.

24        Q.   After the conflict broke out, you were assigned to the SJB police

25     force; right?

Page 44506

 1        A.   No.  I was never in the police, no.

 2             MR. ZEC:  Can we have 65 ter 25635.

 3        Q.   And this, you will see, Mr. Davidovic, is an overview of

 4     assignments in the SJB Sanski Most for June 1992.  And if we can have

 5     second page --

 6        A.   Yes, but this is not me.  This is another Mikan Davidovic, also

 7     from my village.  I know the man, but that's not me, no.

 8        Q.   So if you look item number 34, it says Davidovic, Mikan, and this

 9     is not your signature?

10        A.   No, no.  I know the guy.  I'm sure that he's from my village.  He

11     is two years older than me, and he was indeed a member of the SJB or the

12     MUP but not me.

13        Q.   Fair enough.

14             MR. ZEC:  Can we have 65 ter 17305.

15        Q.   And this is a proposal for appointment sent to Mr. Karadzic in

16     November 1996 -- 1994, excuse me.  And on this page, can you see your

17     name?

18        A.   Yes.  This is me.  This is a proposal for my appointment.

19        Q.   And here we see that you were proposed to the position of the

20     chief of the SJB Sanski Most, at second page in both languages.

21        A.   Yes, yes, yes, that was indeed a proposal, yes.

22        Q.   Can we turn one more page in both languages?  We need second page

23     of the actual document which would be e-court 3.  And here it says that

24     you were proposed to this position by the SDS municipal board and the

25     municipal Executive Board.  This proposal was sent by Nedeljko Rasula and

Page 44507

 1     Mr. Rasula had been president of the Crisis Staff in 1992, and he

 2     remained to be a leading figure in Sanski Most in 1994; right?

 3        A.   Yes, but he was also the president of the Municipal Assembly.

 4     When he sent this, he was the legally elected president of the

 5     municipality of Sanski Most.  He was actually duty-bound.  It was part of

 6     his duties to send this out to the competent institutions.

 7             MR. ZEC:  I will tender this document, Mr. President.

 8             JUDGE KWON:  Yes, we will receive it.

 9             THE REGISTRAR:  It receives Exhibit P6545, Your Honours.

10             MR. ZEC:

11        Q.   Let's focus now to the work of the commission for relocation of

12     population.  You say in paragraph 20 that the first head of this

13     commission was Bosko Banjac, but you did not provide any date.

14     Bosko Banjac was assigned to this position in June 1992; right?

15        A.   I can't remember the dates.  It was a long time ago.  I believe

16     that it was in late 1992.  The date may be correct, but I really can't

17     remember it.  I know for a fact that that was during the period when

18     I arrived in Sanski Most and started working there.  That was sometime in

19     the second half of 1992.

20             MR. ZEC:  Can we have a look at P02732.

21        Q.   And these are conclusions of the Crisis Staff from June 1992.  At

22     page 2, under item number 4, it says that Bosko Banjac is ordered to form

23     a commission for population migration, consisting of five members.  So

24     you were a member of this commission headed by Banjac as of this date or

25     shortly after; right?

Page 44508

 1        A.   No, not from this date but from a date much later.  I can't

 2     remember the date.  But the Executive Council set up the commission and

 3     I became its member, and that's a fact.

 4        Q.   So you don't remember the date?

 5        A.   No, I can't remember the date.  It was a long time ago.  It was

 6     20 years ago.

 7             MR. ZEC:  Can we look at 65 ter 25636?

 8        Q.   And while this is coming up, are you saying that you were not in

 9     Sanski Most at this time or that you did not work in the municipality?

10        A.   No, no, no.  I was in the territory of Sanski Most but not in its

11     urban part but in a village called Bosanski Milanovac which was some 15

12     to 20 kilometres away from the centre of the municipality.  So I did not

13     work in the municipality at the time.  First, I was an intern and then

14     I wasn't working anywhere.  I was not employed either in Sanski Most

15     proper or in the broader region of Sanski Most.

16        Q.   And here you're looking at conclusions of the Crisis Staff from

17     16 June 1992.  So can you read for us item number 6?  What is the title?

18        A.   A commission is set up for the population.  It is composed of --

19     what does it say here?  Dusko Radic, Mirko Stanic, Sofija Praca-Veljovic,

20     Mikan Davidovic, Borislav Stojicic.  I never received this.  Something

21     has been crossed in this document.  This commission never took off the

22     ground.  It never started operating.  I don't know what these people did

23     actually.

24             JUDGE KWON:  Do we not have English translation?

25             MR. ROBINSON:  It looks like it's in e-court but not released, I

Page 44509

 1     think.  I can see the entry for translation but when I open it, it

 2     doesn't show any document.

 3             MR. ZEC:

 4        Q.   So, Mr. Davidovic, I'm not sure -- you saying you were not

 5     working for municipality and then here Crisis Staff is basically ordering

 6     you to be a member of this commission for population.  So you were in the

 7     Crisis Staff?

 8        A.   I don't know about the others.  For instance,

 9     Sofija Praca-Veljovic, she was a professor working at the secondary

10     school; Stanic Mirko, I don't know.

11        Q.   I'm not asking about others.  I'm asking about you.  You were in

12     Crisis Staff.  You were ordered --

13        A.   The Crisis Staff could order but I did not perform any functions.

14     They did not inform me.  I wasn't in the area.  I wasn't available.  Of

15     course, the Crisis Staff could have placed me on any lists in any

16     commission, and could have given me my purview and I would have worked.

17        Q.   Mr. Davidovic, it's not clear how Crisis Staff can order someone

18     to do something that is not around.  You were there.  They appointed you

19     to the commission.

20        A.   I can say with certainty that this commission did not carry out

21     any activities and never took off the ground.

22        Q.   The witness in another case, in Brdjanin case, Besim Islamcevic,

23     testified that in the period June or July 1992, you and Vlado Vrkes came

24     to Podbrezje to explain people what categories of people can apply for

25     papers necessary to leave Sanski Most.  And he said again he met you in

Page 44510

 1     September 1992.  These are transcript pages in Brdjanin case 7431, 7432,

 2     7474.  So witnesses saw you coming, talking to people about these issues,

 3     issues of immigration; right?

 4        A.   That's correct.  At that time, I would come to the municipality,

 5     I met with SDS and the assembly of the municipality, and Vlado asked me

 6     to go to Podbrezje.  I believe Islamcevic used to work in the football

 7     club.  He was a coach there and I know him from that time.

 8        Q.   And he said you were in charge of immigration, it's not that you

 9     just happened to be there and going there with Vrkes but you were doing

10     this sort of work.

11        A.   That was later.  Yes, I did later on.  After the

12     Executive Council appointed that commission, this is what I did, and this

13     is what I stated in my statement.  This was towards the end of 1993.

14        Q.   And to be clear, Besim Islamcevic was talking about late June and

15     after that, so it's not like sometimes later on, it's June 1992, you were

16     dealing with resettlement of population called immigration.

17        A.   I think that this was the period July, maybe even August.

18        Q.   Let's move on.  You say that Muslims and Croats left Sanski Most

19     on their own desire.  In fact, there were efforts throughout the Krajina

20     region to force Muslims and Croats to leave; right?

21        A.   I cannot confirm your statement because I was not familiar with

22     that.  I do not have such information that you may have in your

23     possession.

24             MR. ZEC:  Mr. President, just before I move on, I would like to

25     tender this document and we will provide -- and we will provide

Page 44511

 1     translation shortly.

 2             JUDGE KWON:  Yes, we will admit it.

 3             THE REGISTRAR:  It receives Exhibit P6546, Your Honours.

 4             MR. ZEC:

 5        Q.   Mr. Davidovic, this Chamber has received evidence that the

 6     1st Krajina Corps explicitly acknowledged that an attempt to expel

 7     Muslims and Croats failed because of the transportation difficulties and

 8     their resistance to leave their homes, P03664.  So this was something

 9     that was taking place in Sanski Most among other municipalities; right?

10        A.   I don't have that kind of information.

11        Q.   These efforts in Sanski Most and elsewhere took the form of

12     targeting Muslims and Croats, attacking and destroying their towns,

13     places of residence and detaining many of them; right?

14        A.   That fell within the purview of other organs.  I was not

15     competent for that and neither did I verify such information.

16             MR. ZEC:  Can we have a look at P03662.

17        Q.   This is a combat report of the 1st Krajina Corps from May -- May

18     1992.  We need page 2.  At page 2, item number 3, it says that in areas

19     of Prijedor, Kljuc and Sanski Most, mopping up continues.  The resistance

20     of Croat and Muslim formations is weak --

21        A.   There is no Serbian version.

22        Q.   So e-court page 3 in B/C/S, so it's page 2 of the actual

23     document.  So if you look at -- I was talking about item number 3.  The

24     resistance of Croat and Muslim formations is weak and their mass

25     surrender is underway.  A little bit below in item number 5(b), it says

Page 44512

 1     that after actions in Kozarac, Kljuc and Sanski Most, some conscripts of

 2     Muslim nationality have asked to be released from the units, and the

 3     reasons they say was the massive destruction of their towns.  So these

 4     were the reasons, Mr. Davidovic, massive destruction,

 5     people [overlapping speakers]...

 6        A.   That's possible but this is not known to me.  It's possible but

 7     those facts were not known to me.  What I did hear I heard it from people

 8     going there, that the problems were fear, so fear of combat activities,

 9     fear in terms of assistance, welfare assistance, et cetera.

10        Q.   You're repeating your statement.  There is no need to do that.

11     Your statement is already in evidence.

12        A.   Okay.

13        Q.   Just focus on the question and answer as short as you can.

14             In the same paragraph here, it says that the situation was made

15     worse by public statements made by the ARK SDS leaders who advocate

16     moving and expelling all Muslims and Croats from these areas.  So this --

17     these statements, Mr. Davidovic, caused the fear among non-Serb

18     population and they wanted to leave; right?

19        A.   That wasn't known to me.

20        Q.   At the same time, there were public announcements made over the

21     radio to non-Serbs to surrender, otherwise they will be attacked and

22     their homes and families devastated and destroyed; right?

23        A.   At that time, I did not listen to radio.  There were statements,

24     there were information about the security situation, and the competent

25     organs would issue them.  But I do tell you really that I don't know much

Page 44513

 1     about that.  I could not tell you with any degree of certainty what was

 2     broadcast on the radio at that time.

 3        Q.   I'm going to play to you what was broadcast on the radio in

 4     Sanski Most over and over time.

 5             MR. ZEC:  And can we have P00725.  In the portion that I'm going

 6     to play is at -- on the transcript it's at page 7 of the English and

 7     page 11 and 12 of the B/C/S and it's a Sanski Most radio broadcast of

 8     27 May 1992, and I'm going to play that -- a portion of it in court now

 9     and this portion is time code 15 minutes, 13 seconds, to 16 minutes

10     21 seconds of the tape.

11                           [Audio-clip played]

12             JUDGE KWON:  Just a second, shall we stop.  Two questions:

13     Whether it's audible to the witness; second question, would you like

14     to -- would you like the interpreters to interpret?  We haven't heard any

15     translation.  First, Mr. Davidovic, can you hear that?

16             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Very poor sound, but there is

17     some -- some portions are intelligible.

18             MR. ZEC:  Mr. President, we have provided transcripts to the

19     interpreters.

20             JUDGE KWON:  Given the time, shall we continue tomorrow?

21             MR. ZEC:  That's fine.

22             JUDGE KWON:  Before we adjourn today I would like to issue one

23     ruling.  It's about the accused's request filed today in which he

24     requested counsel for Vladimir Domazet be present during the proofing and

25     testimony of Vidoje Blagojevic, the Chamber notes that the Prosecution

Page 44514

 1     indicated via e-mail that it did not wish to respond to the request.  The

 2     Chamber takes no issue with Domazet's presence in the courtroom during

 3     Blagojevic's testimony.  The request is therefore granted.  The Chamber

 4     takes no position with regard to Domazet's presence during proofing.

 5             Mr. Davidovic, we will adjourn for today and continue tomorrow

 6     morning at 9.00.  I'd like to advise you not discuss with anybody else

 7     about your testimony.  The hearing is adjourned.

 8                           --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 2.44 p.m.,

 9                           to be reconvened on Thursday, the 5th day of

10                           December, 2013, at 9.00 a.m.