1 Friday, 17 January 2014
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 [The witness entered court]
5 --- Upon commencing at 9.05 a.m.
6 JUDGE KWON: Good morning, everyone.
7 Would the witness make the solemn declaration, please.
8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will
9 speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
10 WITNESS: MILE PETROVIC
11 [Witness answered through interpreter]
12 JUDGE KWON: Thank you, Mr. Petrovic. Please be seated and make
13 yourself comfortable.
14 Mr. Petrovic, before you commence your evidence, I must draw your
15 attention to a certain rule of evidence that we have here at the
16 international Tribunal; that is, Rule 90(E). Under this rule, you may
17 object to answering any question from Mr. Karadzic, the Prosecutor, or
18 even from the Judges if you believe that your answer might incriminate
19 you in a criminal offence. In this context, "incriminate" means saying
20 something that might amount to an admission of guilt for a criminal
21 offence or saying something that might provide evidence that you might
22 have committed a criminal offence. However, should you think that an
23 answer might incriminate you and as a consequence you refuse to answer
24 the question, I must let you know that the Tribunal has the power to
25 compel you to answer the question. But in that situation, the Tribunal
1 would ensure that your testimony compelled under such circumstances would
2 not be used in any case that might be laid against you for any offence
3 save and except for the offence of giving false testimony. Do you
4 understand that, Mr. Petrovic?
5 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.
6 JUDGE KWON: Thank you.
7 Yes, Mr. Karadzic, please proceed.
8 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Good morning, Your Excellencies.
9 Good morning to everybody.
10 Examination by Mr. Karadzic:
11 Q. [Interpretation] Good morning, Mr. Petrovic.
12 A. Good morning.
13 Q. I believe that you should come closer to the microphone, and I
14 would kindly ask you to speak slowly and to make a short pause after my
15 questions to allow the interpreters to interpret and for the record to be
17 Mr. Petrovic, did you give a statement to Colonel Blagojevic's
19 A. Yes, it was in 2003, I believe.
20 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I would like to call up 1D09174 in
22 MR. KARADZIC: [Interpretation]
23 Q. Look at the screen in front of you. Can you see your statement
24 on it?
25 A. Yes.
1 Q. Thank you. Did you read and sign the statement?
2 A. Yes, I did.
3 Q. Thank you.
4 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Can the last page be displayed,
5 please? It's the third page in this statement. I would like the witness
6 to identify his signature.
7 MR. KARADZIC: [Interpretation]
8 Q. Is this indeed your signature? Here you have it.
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Thank you. Does this statement accurately reflect what you
11 stated or are there some things that need to be changed?
12 A. Everything was recorded as I said.
13 Q. If I were to put the same questions to you today, the same ones
14 as you were asked by the defence team for Colonel Blagojevic, would your
15 answers in essence be the same as contained in this statement?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Thank you.
18 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I would like to tender this
19 document pursuant to Rule 92 ter.
20 JUDGE KWON: Any objection, Ms. Pack?
21 MS. PACK: No, Mr. President.
22 JUDGE KWON: Thank you. We'll receive it.
23 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit D4218, Your Honours.
24 THE ACCUSED: I am waiting for your approval to go.
25 JUDGE KWON: Yes, please continue, Mr. Karadzic.
1 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you.
2 And now I'm going to read a short summary of Mr. Mile Petrovic's
3 statement in English.
4 [In English] Mile Petrovic was a member of the military police of
5 the Bratunac Brigade in July 1995.
6 During his testimony, Prosecution Witness Momir Nikolic claimed
7 that Mile Petrovic had executed six Muslim prisoners who he had picked up
8 in the United Nations all-terrain vehicle between Bratunac and
9 Konjevic Polje on 13th of July, 1995. Mile Petrovic states that this
10 testimony is completely false.
11 Mr. Petrovic states that on 13th of July, 1995, Momir Nikolic
12 ordered him and his commander, Mirko Jankovic, to drive with Nikolic in a
13 United Nations all-terrain vehicle from Bratunac to Konjevic Polje.
14 During that drive, two Muslims surrendered to them and they took them in
15 the vehicle to Konjevic Polje. At Konjevic Polje, upon Nikolic's
16 instructions, Mr. Petrovic turned the Muslims over to the Bosnian Serb
17 soldiers who were guarding the other prisoners who were assembled there.
18 He never executed anybody.
19 And that is short summary. At that moment, I do not have
20 additional questions for Mr. Petrovic.
21 JUDGE KWON: Very well.
22 Mr. Petrovic, as you have noted, your evidence in chief in this
23 case has been admitted in writing; that is, through your written
24 statement. Now you'll be cross-examined by the representative of the
25 Office of the Prosecutor.
1 Yes, Ms. Pack.
2 MS. PACK: Thank you, Mr. President, Your Honours.
3 Cross-examination by Ms. Pack:
4 Q. Mr. Petrovic, you were deputy commander of the Bratunac Brigade
5 military police platoon in July 1995, weren't you?
6 A. It is not correct. I was actually not appointed. I was just
7 verbally told that I would stand in for Jankovic if he was not there. I
8 was not appointed. Momir Nikolic only told me in his office that I would
9 be Mirko's deputy if Mirko was away.
10 Q. Your commander was Mirko Jankovic; right?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. You have testified previously that you were the de facto deputy
13 commander of the Bratunac Brigade military police platoon. Do you now
14 deny that?
15 A. What do you mean by "de facto"?
16 Q. Let's just look at your earlier testimony just to shorten things.
17 MS. PACK: 65 ter 25811, please.
18 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I believe that the witness's
19 question should be answered. When he asked about the term "de facto," I
20 think that it should be explained because it does not belong to our
22 MS. PACK: I'll accept that.
23 Q. Did you perform the duty of deputy commander of the military
24 police platoon of the Bratunac Brigade in July 1995?
25 A. When Mirko Jankovic was away, when he wasn't there. Otherwise,
1 there was no appointment as such. When he was away, which sometimes
2 happened, everybody knew that Mr. Petrovic would stand in for him and
3 that was that.
4 Q. Yes. You've struggled with this before. Let's look at 65 ter
5 just quickly, as I said, 25811. I'll read it to you because it's in
6 English and it's your testimony at the sentencing hearing for
7 Momir Nikolic, and I wanted to look at page 16, please, in e-court. And
8 I'll just read from halfway down. You were asked by counsel for
9 Mr. Nikolic:
10 "Did you have any post in the Bratunac Brigade military police?"
11 Because, of course, he reminded you that in your statement you'd
12 called yourself, I think, you said that you worked as a military
14 "Q. Did you have any post in the Bratunac Brigade military
16 "A. No, apart from the fact that I was told orally that I was a
17 deputy of the commander. But I didn't feel like that.
18 "Q. Mr. Petrovic, were you the deputy commander of the military
19 police of the Bratunac Brigade. Yes or no?
20 "A. I was not given a document. I was just told orally by
21 Nikolic that I was to stand in for Mirko when he wasn't around.
22 "Q. May I take your answer as meaning, yes, that you were the
23 deputy commander of the military police of the Bratunac Brigade?
24 "A. Yes. But there was no order to that effect.
25 "Q. Mr. Petrovic, did you, de facto, perform the duty of deputy
1 commander of the military police of the Bratunac Brigade in July 1995?
2 "A. Yes."
3 So you remember testifying to that fact before and you would
4 stand by that testimony, would you?
5 A. Well, I have repeated the same thing today. I didn't change
6 anything. But there was really no appointment to that effect, and I've
7 already explained that. That's all.
8 Q. You were promoted to commander of the military police platoon of
9 the Bratunac Brigade in March of 1996; is that right?
10 A. Yes, this is right. When Mirko Jankovic left the military, I was
11 appointed as the commander.
12 Q. You gave a statement to the Bratunac police station on the
13 25th of August, 2003. Do you remember giving a statement?
14 A. Yes, I gave statements.
15 Q. You gave this statement after you read a report in the press
16 about what Momir Nikolic had said about you at the ICTY. Yes, is that
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And before you gave your statement to the Bratunac police
20 station, you spoke to Mirko Jankovic about what Momir Nikolic had said;
21 is that correct?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. You gave the statement that was admitted in evidence today to the
24 Defence team in the Blagojevic case on 29th September, 2003. You've
25 identified broadly two matters that Momir Nikolic says in his evidence
1 with which you say you disagree, both of which involve allegations about
2 you personally, what you said and did. And I'm just going to summarise
3 two of them broadly, and I would just like you to confirm that you agree
4 or disagree that I've summarised your evidence correctly.
5 Firstly, he says you used a megaphone to call Muslim men to
6 surrender while you were travelling with him and Jankovic in the UN APC
7 from Bratunac to Konjevic Polje on 13 July, and you say you didn't; is
8 that right? Have I accurately put your position?
9 A. That was not the case.
10 Q. And you say you -- he says that six Muslim men surrendered to you
11 on the road between Bratunac and Konjevic Polje and that you reported to
12 him at Konjevic Polje that you had killed these six Muslim men to avenge
13 your brother. You say -- you can tell me whether this is correct. You
14 say there were only two Muslim men and you didn't execute them; is that
16 A. Right.
17 Q. I want to look with you at some areas of agreement with
18 Mr. Momir Nikolic's testimony. Firstly, you agree, of course, don't you,
19 that you travelled in a stolen UN APC from Bratunac to Konjevic Polje on
20 the 13 July, 1995, with him and Mirko Jankovic, yes?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Jankovic, your commander, was the driver, wasn't he? Because he
23 knew how to drive an APC.
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. He'd been able to start it up; right?
1 A. Yes, he did start it up.
2 Q. You would also agree, wouldn't you, that you had a brother who
3 was killed, wasn't he, during an attack on Bjelovac, where you were from,
4 killed by units of the ABiH, in December 1992?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And this is another matter, not in your statement to the
7 Blagojevic Defence team but in your other statement, earlier statement,
8 on the morning of the 14th of July you -- with your commander,
9 Mirko Jankovic, you escorted the convoy of Muslim prisoners that
10 travelled from Bratunac to Zvornik on that day, on that morning, yes?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And you were travelling in a stolen UN APC?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. You went to Orahovac, to the school at Orahovac?
15 A. I don't remember. I was not familiar with the place, so I don't
16 know. I know that there was a road below the road. We came from that
17 direction. I saw the school, but I don't know what its name was nor did
18 I know the name of the place.
19 Q. Now, in --
20 JUDGE KWON: Just a second, did you say "there was a road below
21 the road"?
22 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter correct herself: There was a
23 school below the road.
24 JUDGE KWON: Thank you.
25 MS. PACK: Thank you, Mr. President.
1 Q. Now, in challenging --
2 JUDGE KWON: Yeah, it has been clarified. Please continue.
3 MS. PACK:
4 Q. In challenging Momir Nikolic's account, what you did and said on
5 the 13th of July, you were seeking to underplay, aren't you, your role in
6 the Srebrenica events? You have not been entirely honest with this
7 Court, have you?
8 A. I don't understand. What role are you talking about?
9 Q. The allegations which you deny, which you discussed with
10 Mirko Jankovic in advance of giving a statement to the Bratunac SUP, you
11 are not being entirely honest about these allegations, what Momir Nikolic
12 said, are you?
13 A. I am honest. I did not discuss all those matters with
14 Mirko Jankovic and what happened. I was in front of the hospital. I
15 told him that I was summoned to The Hague. He told me that he was, too.
16 And that was all. We did not discuss the matters. He knew what had
17 happened, I knew what had happened, and that's all I can say about
18 Mirko Jankovic. We never sat down to work out a certain plan, which is
19 what you seem to be trying to suggest.
20 Q. Let's look at what you did on the 13th of July. You accept,
21 don't you, that Muslim men were called upon to surrender by Serb forces
22 along the Bratunac-Konjevic Polje road using loudspeakers? You accept
23 that that happened?
24 A. That did happen, but it was not us who were calling out to them.
25 It was done by those people who were in the civilian police cars.
1 Q. I'll remind you in your Defence statement, you tell us that
2 civilian police in police cars with blue license plates were calling to
3 the Muslims to surrender. That's what you say in your statement;
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. You -- witnesses in this case have testified that they were
7 deceived into thinking that it was safe for them to surrender because
8 they saw a UN personnel carrier on the road or at the intersection at
9 Konjevic Polje. You're aware that that's the case, that Muslim men
10 thought that it was safe because they saw UN APC on the road?
11 A. I don't know. The thought never occurred to me at that time.
12 Mr. Nikolic ordered us to go to Konjevic Polje. I didn't know why. He
13 never told us. We just went there and we returned. We had two lads from
14 the United Nations in that APC. And then we returned. And after that,
15 we just sat down for a while and then went home.
16 Q. You're aware, aren't you, that the men who surrendered on the
17 road, on the Konjevic Polje road -- Bratunac-Konjevic Polje road, they
18 were executed on the 13th or after that -- in the days after that by
19 Bosnian Serb armed forces? You're aware that that's what happened to
21 A. Well, I heard about it later.
22 Q. Just back to your statement. This is your statement in the
23 Blagojevic case, the one that's been admitted today. You say you went
24 for a drive in the APC with UN soldiers who were at Konjevic Polje. You
25 went for a drive with them; is that right?
1 A. Correct. With those two who had seen us and surrendered.
2 Q. You describe them as foreign nationals. They're English
3 speaking; is that correct? They were English speaking, yes?
4 A. Oh, no, no. No, it -- you and I didn't understand each other. I
5 thought you were asking me about those two Muslims who had surrendered.
6 Q. No, I --
7 A. Is that what you're asking?
8 Q. No, I was asking about UN soldiers that you picked up at
9 Konjevic Polje and took for a drive.
10 A. Well, first of all, we didn't pick them up. What happened is
11 that Momir Nikolic said, after they told their story, that they should
12 come onto the APC and drive around with us because the columns were
13 coming from the direction of Bratunac, columns of people who were wounded
14 and exhausted. So they got onto the APC with us, and we went towards
15 Bratunac, a kilometre or two, and then they said we should return. We
16 returned, a jeep came to pick them up, and they drove away.
17 Q. So your evidence is that you went for a drive up the road towards
18 Bratunac and then you came back with these two Dutch soldiers?
19 A. That's right.
20 Q. I'm going to read out a statement that was taken in October 1995
21 by the Dutch authorities from a Dutch soldier, part of DutchBat, who was
22 at Konjevic Polje on the 13th of July and went for a drive in a UN APC
23 with Serbian soldiers.
24 MS. PACK: If we could bring it up. It's 65 ter 03239. There is
25 English and B/C/S and Dutch. Could we have the English and B/C/S up,
1 please. And it's the English, please, at page 9. It's just the front
2 page B/C/S. Page 9 is the front page of the Dutch statement. Sorry, in
3 fact, perhaps if we look at English page 8 and B/C/S page 9. That --
4 just so that you can see that this is the front page of the Dutch
5 statement. Okay. This is Martijn Anne Mulder. Now, I'm going to ask,
6 please, if we just go to English page 11 and B/C/S page 12.
7 Q. Now, he was a soldier, a DutchBat soldier, and he gives an
8 account of having been taken to Konjevic Polje on the 13 July, 1995, and
9 at one point a UN APC arrived. And I'm going to take it up from there.
10 And if you look at your screen, you can see the statement in B/C/S as I'm
11 reading it out in English. And you can see in the B/C/S it's fourth
12 paragraph down I'm going to read from, second paragraph in the English.
13 He says:
14 "After some time, it was made clear to us that we would be
15 brought back to Potocari. We waited there for about an hour until an APC
16 from the UN approached us from the direction of Bratunac."
17 And I won't read the rest of that paragraph. It's starting at
18 the next one:
19 "We then had to get into the APC and the soldier, who later went
20 to sit on the commander's seat, told us to open the hatch of the APC and
21 take our places at the top of the vehicle. He made this clear to us
22 through hand gestures. He also told us in a mixture of English and
23 Serbo-Croatian that we had to shoot at any Muslims, de Bruine," this is
24 the soldier's colleague, "and I were given a Kalashnikov each and we also
25 got a flak jacket and helmet. The APC then headed off in the direction
1 of Potocari.
2 "About one kilometre after having left Konjevici and heading in
3 the direction of Bratunac, the APC turned off the main road and drove
4 directly into the enemy woodlands where there were many armed Muslims.
5 We drove around that area for about 45 minutes. de Bruine sat on the top
6 of the APC the whole time. So did I, except for the last bit.
7 "It would have been much better for our own safety to ride in the
8 APC with the hatch down. Driving through the woodlands while sitting on
9 top of the APC was really very dangerous for us because we were acting as
10 a target for the Muslims. There was no point in sitting on the top of
11 the APC. It only made you vulnerable."
12 Going on, last bit:
13 "While we were driving around, the BSA gunner said that we had to
14 point our weapons in the same direction as his .50 calibre (gun). We did
15 not see any Muslims and therefore we did not have to shoot."
16 And then he says you went back to Konjevici. So this is an
17 account of your drive with the UN soldiers you picked up at
18 Konjevic Polje on the 13th of July, isn't it?
19 A. Half of it is not true. First of all, I gave them flak jackets
20 for their protection, and they themselves opened that hatch which I
21 myself didn't even know how to open. They came inside, they asked for
22 rifles, or perhaps I gave them my rifle. Maybe what you describe
23 happened later after I left, and we didn't go through any woodlands
24 unless they consider the road towards Bratunac woodlands. I don't
25 understand any of it. We were doing that to help them, not to go through
1 the woodlands.
2 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Transcript.
3 JUDGE KWON: Yes, Mr. Karadzic.
4 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Line 19, it says "I gave them my
5 rifle. Maybe ...," whereas he said, "I couldn't have given them my
6 rifle." And then he said, "What was described, perhaps, has nothing to
7 do with us. Maybe it happened later."
8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Maybe there was some other APC
9 after us. I don't remember having that experience with those young men.
10 MS. PACK:
11 Q. Let me just clarify what you're saying here because it's a little
12 confusing with the intervention. Did you or did you not give them your
13 rifle or where -- did they have rifles with them in the APC, these two
14 Dutch soldiers? What's your evidence?
15 A. I cannot even remember clearly whether I gave him a rifle or not,
16 but I didn't even know how to handle the anti-aircraft gun, because I
17 didn't know how it's supposed to be used. It was just standing there. I
18 don't believe I gave him my rifle. I seriously doubt it. I don't
20 Q. And did you -- your evidence is, then, that they voluntarily
21 stood up; is that right? They voluntarily opened the hatch of the APC
22 and took their places at the top of the vehicle. Is that what your
23 evidence is?
24 A. After Momir talked to them, they got inside. And Momir only told
25 us to give them a ride wherever they want. Both of them came in and
1 raised this thing. I didn't even know how to raise it myself. I saw it
2 for the first time. So they lifted it and they looked at people. There
3 were people coming towards us and surrendering, and I was giving them
4 water that I had in packages, like milk packages. I had that water in
5 the APC and I threw these packages of water down to these people. I
6 don't know what he's talking about when he mentions woodlands.
7 Q. So this is your -- your honest evidence, is it, that, in fact, at
8 this point with the DutchBat soldiers, they raised the hatch of the --
9 they raised the top of the APC and they stood there? Was it dangerous
10 for them to be standing out?
11 A. Well, it's dangerous for anyone, but they were standing.
12 Actually, only their heads were out of the APC. My head was also
13 protruding from the APC, just as the head of Mirko Jankovic. And we
14 were, of course, in danger should anyone from the forest have taken aim
15 at us. But we only went down the asphalt road, not taking any turns
16 right or left.
17 Q. Let me just take you to 65 ter 25834, please. This is statement
18 of de Bruine, who is the colleague of the other Dutch soldier. And he
19 says --
20 MS. PACK: If we can go to page 8 in the English and page 8 in
21 the B/C/S. And I'll just take it from the bottom of page 8 in the
22 English and then it goes onto page 9 in the English. At the B/C/S, you
23 can see where I'm -- it's the middle of the page in the B/C/S, about the
24 third paragraph.
25 Q. He says -- he's describing that you get in -- they got into the
1 APC with you. And he says:
2 "We drove in the direction of the Potocari. At one stage, Mulder
3 went and sat inside the vehicle. I stayed on top ..."
4 He goes on, he says:
5 "The gunner instructed me to aim my firearm in the direction
6 indicated by him. He said that there were Muslim fighters walking around
7 there. I did not aim my firearm. About 20 minutes" --
8 JUDGE KWON: Just a second. Can we see the English page?
9 MS. PACK: Oh, I'm sorry. The English page needn't, please, be
10 there. Can we have the English trans -- it's the bottom of the page 8
11 there, and then it goes on to page 9. So I started at the bottom of
12 page 8, "We drove in the direction of Potocari."
13 JUDGE KWON: Yes.
14 MS. PACK: And then if we can just actually go immediately over
15 to page 9 in the English, I was reading:
16 "The gunner instructed me to aim my firearm in the direction
17 indicated by him. He said that there were Muslim fighters walking around
18 there. I did not aim my firearm. About 20 minutes later, we arrived
19 back at the T-junction. When we arrived back, one of the BSA fighters
20 said that we had now taken part in a Serbian patrol. At this, the
21 fighters laughed loudly."
22 Q. Do you remember you or Jankovic saying something like this,
23 finding this experience amusing?
24 A. [No interpretation]
25 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreter did not understand the witness.
1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] If somebody told them that, maybe
2 that was after they left the APC, and perhaps it was one of the people
3 who were around. I don't remember.
4 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] The first part of the answer that
5 the interpreters did not understand was "God forbid."
6 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I said, "No, God forbid that
7 something like that ..."
8 MS. PACK:
9 Q. Let me ask you to look, please, at the Bratunac Brigade military
10 police daily log.
11 MS. PACK: And it's at P00169. If we can just go to page --
12 perhaps the first page in the B/C/S for the moment, and we'll be going
13 to, please, page 14 in the English.
14 Q. So this is the front page in the B/C/S you can see. We don't
15 have that in English. That's the front page of the Bratunac Brigade
16 miliary police daily log that you're familiar with, yes?
17 A. [No interpretation]
18 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreter did not understand the witness.
19 JUDGE KWON: Could you repeat what you said, Mr. Petrovic?
20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I'm saying probably. I don't
21 remember this cover. I see it says, "On duty V.P.," which is probably
22 military police.
23 MS. PACK: Let's go to one of the entries, page 40 in English,
24 B/C/S page 17, please.
25 Q. And you can see here the entry for the 14th/15th July. And I
1 just wanted to highlight for you the sentence that reads:
2 "The police was engaged in the escort of Muslim refugees."
3 MS. PACK: I'm not sure, we've just lost the edge there on the
4 B/C/S. No, perhaps it's all there.
5 Q. You can see that?
6 A. [No interpretation]
7 Q. Yes, in the B/C/S, if you look, please, at the handwriting,
8 that's the entry at 14th/15 July.
9 A. Yes, I see that.
10 Q. And that is describing your escort of the Muslim men from
11 Bratunac to Zvornik; right?
12 A. Probably.
13 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Objection. The name of the witness
14 does not feature here, and these are not prisoners but refugees. I would
15 appreciate it if the questions were more precise.
16 MS. PACK: It's the 14th/15th July, so I think it's very unlikely
17 that it's refugees given that the women and children were removed from
18 Potocari on the 12th and 13th.
19 Q. You're aware, aren't you, that all of the Muslim men in the
20 convoy, all of them were executed in the Zvornik area, apart from the few
21 who escaped, over the following few days, yes?
22 A. I heard later from media reports, but I didn't known it then.
23 Q. Okay. We'll look at another entry.
24 MS. PACK: Page 16 in the English, page 19 in the B/C/S.
25 Q. And here is an entry which notes that you are the duty officer on
1 the 17th July. Mile Petrovic at the top there, yes?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. If we can just read the entry, it says, second sentence:
4 "One police patrol remained in Pilica to secure and guard the
6 So that was an entry made by you as duty officer; right?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Did you hear back from those military policemen who were in
9 Pilica at that time what happened there?
10 A. Could you repeat that?
11 Q. Did you hear back from these military policemen who were in
12 Pilica at that time about what happened there?
13 A. They didn't tell me anything about that, nor do I know who had
14 sent them there.
15 Q. You didn't hear -- you, deputy commander of the military police
16 platoon, you didn't hear that Muslim men held at the Pilica school, Kula,
17 the school in Pilica, were taken to a nearby execution site on the
18 16th of July and shot. You didn't hear that? You didn't hear about
20 A. No, I didn't hear. We transported those people to some school
21 under escort, they got off a bus, they got into the school which was on
22 the right-hand side of the road where we were. When they got into the
23 school, we returned, and after that, I don't know. Who would tell me?
24 Even if there was something, you know that plans are not communicated to
25 soldiers, if there had been any plans, and what happened we later heard
1 from the media reports.
2 Q. Did you hear that hundreds of Muslim prisoners held at the Pilica
3 Dom, they were also shot on the 16th of July? You didn't hear about that?
4 A. I didn't hear about that. That's why I'm telling you about that
5 school. I don't even know its name or in which place, because we didn't
6 stay there for a long time. We just escorted them to that place and we
7 returned on our APC.
8 Q. Let's try and look at an entry which you do know about, the
9 18th of July, please.
10 MS. PACK: Which is on the following page 18 of the English and
11 following page of the B/C/S.
12 Q. If you look at --
13 MS. PACK: I'm sorry, it's not the 18th of July. It's the
14 following page -- sorry, it's page 18 of the English -- have I got -- and
15 the following page of the B/C/S, my apologies.
16 Q. You can see its follows from the 18th of July. There is no date,
17 but it must therefore read -- be dated the 19th of July. I don't need to
18 ask you about that. You can see the entry:
19 "Patrols went to secure the public utility workers in Glogova."
20 Now, you were aware, surely, on the 19th and before, of a large
21 mass grave in the area of Glogova - yes? - as deputy commander of the
22 military police?
23 A. Of course I didn't know. How could I know everything?
24 Q. In Glogova, on the road between Bratunac and Konjevic Polje, you
25 were not aware of a large mass grave in July 1995?
1 A. Well, I heard about all of that later. At this time, I did not know.
2 Q. So you were aware, then, by the time the bodies were -- of Muslim
3 men who were executed and buried in July, you're aware in
4 September/October 1995 of their removal from the mass grave in Glogova to
5 other locations in Bratunac? You were aware of that happening, were you?
6 A. I didn't know about that either.
7 Q. You were not aware of trucks carrying bodies passing right
8 through the town of Bratunac, moving bodies from Glogova, round the road
9 to Zeleni Jadar and to various locations along the road to there? You
10 weren't aware of that?
11 A. I heard about that later, a few days later from others who had
12 been there.
13 Q. In September/October 1995, yes? Okay.
14 A. I don't know the exact dates. I don't remember dates. I can't
15 remember when it was. If I had known, I would have taken a notebook and
16 made notes to produce it here.
17 Q. You're aware that there have been exhumations carried out by the
18 ICTY of mass grave at Konjevic Polje? You're aware of that?
19 A. Well, I heard about that, too.
20 Q. Yes. Two locations there, very close to the Konjevic Polje
21 intersection, about a hundred metres away, yes? You're aware of the
22 exhumation there, yes?
23 A. I didn't know. I keep telling you all the time. You are trying
24 to involve me in this game all the time. The soldiers cannot know about
25 these things. If something was going on, it was being done in secret.
1 Q. We are talking about an exhumation at Konjevic Polje, one of the
2 two there, a hundred metres away from the intersection where you reported
3 to Momir Nikolic that you'd killed six Muslim men. That exhumation.
4 You're aware of that?
5 A. I didn't make any report to him. He came with his lawyers saying
6 that I could help him in the Blagojevic case, but I didn't want to lie.
7 He wanted me to say that Blagojevic had given him orders, but I didn't
8 want to say that. I got orders from Mirko Jankovic, from Momir Nikolic,
9 and I cannot say otherwise. And he told me, You are worse than the
10 Muslims. But what can I do if that's not the way it happened? After
11 that, he said on St. George’s Day, my patron saint's day, that I had
12 killed six people. That is why I am testifying here in public so that
13 everyone can see me, both the Muslims and Serbs. But if anybody can find
14 that I so much as slapped a single soldier, be he Muslim or --
15 Q. Let me just ask you --
16 A. -- Serb, may I be executed on the spot.
17 Q. My time is running out, so I ask you --
18 A. I had young children. He said that I was avenging my brother.
19 How could I avenge him when I don't know to this day who killed my brother.
20 Q. Very quickly, I want you to help me with this one thing. So
21 there have been nine bodies exhumed from the location in September 1999
22 where bodies were exhumed, Konjevic Polje 1, the mass grave there. And I
23 would like you, please, to help me with this. They have been
24 identified -- eight men have been identified from this location. I am
25 going to read seven of the names, one of them is confidential. And I
1 would like to ask you -- here are the names: Emir Halilovic,
2 Samija Hasic [phoen], Sidik Mehmedovic, Fadil Omerovic,
3 Mehmedalija Omerovic, Dzemal Omerovic, Alija Velic. Can you help us,
4 please? Can you help the family members? Can you take this opportunity
5 to tell the truth and tell us if any of these names, these Muslim men
6 whom I read out, whether you recognise these names as being one or any of
7 the six Muslim men that you picked up with Momir Nikolic and reported to
8 him that you'd shot at the Konjevic Polje intersection on the 13 July?
9 Can you help us with this, please?
10 A. First of all, we did not pick up six people but two. I don't
11 want to swear on my children, but we picked up two and left them there.
12 Momir questioned them by that concrete slab, and then we came to the
13 junction, and then those people came. They told me to go back and they
14 would take the people to another building across the road where there
15 were many more people. Now, what do I have to do with this? I don't
16 even know the names of these people, nor would I remember them. I don't
17 remember them and I don't know them. I really can't help you. If I
18 could, I would. I would tell you about everything. I cannot say that I
19 had done this when I didn't, and Momir Nikolic knows this well. He's
20 just pretending he doesn't know.
21 MS. PACK: I have no further questions, thank you.
22 JUDGE KWON: Thank you, Ms. Pack.
23 Yes, Mr. Karadzic.
24 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Could we check in the transcript
25 page 22, from line 24 down. The witness said: "Later on, he said that
1 St. George's Day, my patron saint's day."
2 And then he said further down:
3 "I am publicly testifying here before Serbs and Muslims. If
4 anybody can confirm that I had even slapped a Muslim or a Serb soldier,
5 let them execute me by firing squad if they can prove I even slapped
7 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] But let them tell the truth instead
8 of just making allegations.
9 JUDGE KWON: Very well. Thank you.
10 Do you have any re-examination, Mr. Karadzic?
11 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] No, Excellency, thank you. And I'd
12 like to thank the witness for testifying now.
13 JUDGE KWON: Very well.
14 Then that concludes your evidence, Mr. Petrovic. On behalf of
15 the Chamber, I would like to thank you for your coming to The Hague to
16 give it. You are now free to go.
17 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you too, Mr. President.
18 THE ACCUSED: Again in the transcript, my intervention --
19 JUDGE KWON: Just a second.
20 [Trial Chamber confers]
21 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] It was not recorded that the
22 witness said, "On St. Georges's Day, my patron saint's day."
23 JUDGE KWON: Thank you.
24 THE ACCUSED: It's important, because St. George is 6th of May.
25 JUDGE KWON: I take it the court reporters will check it,
1 together with the interpreters.
2 Are there any matters to raise? And I take it there is no
3 further witnesses for the week.
4 MR. ROBINSON: That's correct, Mr. President. The one other
5 witness that we had scheduled for this week had a death in his family at
6 the last minute and was unable to travel. So we apologise for not being
7 able to complete all the time that we have available this week, but we
8 have eight witnesses next week, so we shouldn't have that problem again.
9 JUDGE KWON: We will start with Mr. Kvocka Monday.
10 MR. ROBINSON: Yes, Mr. President.
11 JUDGE KWON: Thank you. Hearing is adjourned.
12 [The witness withdrew]
13 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 10.04 a.m.,
14 to be reconvened on Monday, the 20th day of
15 January, 2014, at 9.00 a.m.