1 Friday, 11 October 2002
2 [Open session]
3 [Status Conference]
4 [The appellants entered court]
5 --- Upon commencing at 11.02 a.m.
6 JUDGE HUNT: Call the case, please.
7 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning, Your Honour, case number
8 IT-95-14/2-A, the Prosecutor versus Dario Kordic and Mario Cerkez. Thank
10 JUDGE HUNT: Appearances for the Prosecution, Mr. Farrell.
11 MR. FARRELL: Good morning, Your Honour, thank you. Mr. Norman
12 Farrell and Mr. Fabricio Guarglia for the Prosecution with Ms. Sue Grogan
13 our case manager. Thank you.
14 JUDGE HUNT: For the appellant, General Kordic.
15 MR. NAUMOVSKI: [Interpretation] Good morning, my name it Mitko
16 Naumovski attorney from Zagreb for Mr. Dario Kordic.
17 JUDGE HUNT: And for Mr. Cerkez.
18 MR. MIKULICIC: [Interpretation] Good morning, Your Honour, my name
19 is Bozidar Kovacic and I represent Mario Cerkez.
20 JUDGE HUNT: This is a Status Conference called in accordance with
21 the rules. I was handed, on my way into court, a document which has been
22 filed - I assume it's been filed - it's dated the 10th of October.
23 Unfortunately, the resources of our registry are such that I don't appear
24 to have been given a copy of it but I have read it. I am very grateful to
25 those who prepared it.
1 Well, Mr. Farrell, I suppose it says everything, doesn't it? It's
2 an agreed document as I understand it.
3 MR. FARRELL: That's correct, Your Honour.
4 JUDGE HUNT: So it says everything as to when things should be
6 MR. FARRELL: As anticipated, yes.
7 JUDGE HUNT: It's a bit grim.
8 MR. FARRELL: I must tell you, when we reviewed the material, we
9 felt the same.
10 JUDGE HUNT: Yes. Well, the size of it I can understand the
11 problem. But if it's going to take that long, it's going to take that
12 long, which means we'll have another Status Conference before the matter
13 is ready.
14 MR. FARRELL: Hopefully not, but it may take that long. Yes, Your
16 JUDGE HUNT: One and a half million pages. What does that make
17 the total up upstairs now? Four and a half million, is it?
18 MR. FARRELL: I think -- this is included in the -- I think it's
19 3.8 or something like that. But the stuff that's come in in the last
20 while adds up to that amount since our last comprehensive search.
21 JUDGE HUNT: Is there anything you wanted to add to what's in the
23 MR. FARRELL: No, Your Honour, thank you very much.
24 JUDGE HUNT: Anything that the Defence wishes to raise. It is a
25 very unhappy position. But if that's the position, there is very little
1 that can be done about it unless you've got some suggestions.
2 Mr. Naumovski, what about you?
3 MR. NAUMOVSKI: [Interpretation] Precisely so, Your Honour. I just
4 explained to Mr. Kordic a few minutes what situation we are in. And the
5 Defence has no choice but to accept the time scale and the situation we
6 find ourselves in. If the Prosecution has really received an enormous
7 number of documents numbering a million and a half pages, there is nothing
8 else we can do but wait for them to look through the material and Defence
9 will fill their obligations under Rule 68, Article 61.
10 JUDGE HUNT: I was hoping, I suppose, hope against hope that you
11 may have some way of resolving it, but I can't see one myself.
12 Is there anything you want to raise about your client's personal
14 MR. NAUMOVSKI: [Interpretation] No thank you, Your Honour,
15 Mr. Kordic has nothing special to raise with respect to his detention
16 conditions and there are no other problems.
17 JUDGE HUNT: Thank you very much.
18 Anything on behalf of Mr. Cerkez?
19 MR. KOVACIC: Your Honour, no. I agree with what my colleagues
20 have said, the problems seem to be of an objective nature, they are as
21 they are. I only hope that we will not waste time waiting and then have a
22 situation in which no documents of value turn up, but this is in God's
24 As for my client's status, there are no special problems but I
25 have to say that I have been considering lodging a new motion for
1 provisional release because it seems that this case can go on and on,
2 because archive material from Bosnia and Croatia will continue to keep
3 coming in. Thank you, Your Honour.
4 JUDGE HUNT: Well, in response to what you say, I think I should
5 point this out, that if you want the appeal to be heard on the material
6 which you have now, it can be heard. But as I understand it, this
7 material is likely to contain exculpatory material - at least some, what
8 its will be worth, I don't know, it's a matter for you. It is exceedingly
9 unfortunate that everything seems to be coming up so late in the case.
10 But it's for you to determine whether you want to proceed with the
11 material you have now or whether you want to see whether it turns up
12 something important which will assist your client. It's not easy position
13 for you to be in, but I don't want you to proceed upon the basis that you
14 are forced to wait for anything. It's a matter for you.
15 Now, is there anything that you want to raise in relation to your
16 client's personal situation in custody?
17 MR. KOVACIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. No, there
18 is nothing I wish to raise. I agree with everything you have said and, of
19 course, it is for us to decide. But it's quite clear that as long as
20 there is at least one per cent chance of our finding any exculpatory
21 material for our client, of course we have to wait, which is why we are
22 not raising any issues. The situation is such as it is. Unfortunately,
23 however, this detention period has become very long indeed. Thank you,
24 Your Honour.
25 JUDGE HUNT: Thank you very much.
1 Mr. Farrell, just one minor compliant and it's not your fault, I
2 know, but you have to realise that something happens in the registry here
3 which is quite mystical, documents take longer to get to the Judges than
4 it takes to get to anybody else in the Chamber. My legal assistant seems
5 to get them at least 24 hours before I do, but even he hadn't received
6 this one this morning. So I would suggest that you if you've got
7 something immediately before a hearing of this nature, that you file it
8 two days in advance.
9 MR. FARRELL: I'll endeavour to do so, Your Honour. Thank you.
10 JUDGE HUNT: Thank you all for coming and I'll adjourn.
11 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned
12 at 11.10 a.m.