1 Monday, 18 April 2004
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 --- Upon commencing at 9.09 a.m.
5 JUDGE ORIE: Good morning to everyone.
6 Madam Registrar, would you please call the case.
7 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning, Your Honours. This is case number
8 IT-00-39-T, the Prosecutor versus Momcilo Krajisnik.
9 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Madam Registrar.
10 Ms. Edgerton, are you ready to continue the examination of
11 Witness 73?
12 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please.
13 MS. EDGERTON: Your indulgence for a moment. I am, Your Honour,
14 and I can advise the Court with respect to I think the number is 8
15 intercepts which had previously been marked for playing to this witness.
16 I've had a conversation with Ms. Loukas as regards the identification of
17 the voices of the interlocutors to those conversations. She's indicated
18 to me this morning that she takes no issue with the voice ID and
19 following Your Honour's guidance, then, I will be seeking to tender at
20 the end of the witness's evidence in chief those conversations along with
21 two other contextual documents.
22 JUDGE ORIE: That's highly appreciated by the Chamber.
23 Madam Usher --
24 MS. LOUKAS: Yes, Your Honour, that's correct, we had that
25 conversation this morning regarding the intercepts.
1 JUDGE ORIE: I took that without any contradiction --
2 MS. LOUKAS: Yes, Your Honour.
3 JUDGE ORIE: Madam Usher, could you please escort Witness 73 into
4 the courtroom.
5 Just prior to the arrival of the witness, first of all I'd like
6 to remind the parties to switch off their microphones which the witness
7 answers the questions. That's point one. Are there any remaining
8 intercepts to be played, Ms. Edgerton?
9 MS. EDGERTON: Two, Your Honour. One immediately -- that we'll
10 begin with and the one that we couldn't play because of technical
11 difficulties earlier which I'll propose only to do at the very end of his
13 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Then I'd like to again ask the assistance of
14 the interpreters in working rather -- at a slow speed from the
15 transcript, the other interpreter then checking whether the transcript is
16 in accordance with the spoken text so that it's possible to make a
17 transcription at all.
18 [The witness entered court]
19 WITNESS: WITNESS 73 [Resumed]
20 [Witness answered through interpreter]
21 JUDGE ORIE: Please be seated, Witness 73. Witness 73, all
22 protective measures are effective at this moment. I would like to remind
23 you that you are still bound by the solemn declaration that you have
24 given at the beginning of your testimony last Thursday.
25 Please proceed, Ms. Edgerton.
1 Examined by Ms. Edgerton: [Continued]
2 Q. Good morning, Witness 73. At the time we concluded our session
3 on Friday of last week, we dealt with an event in early January 1992 and
4 that involved movement of some weapons from Semizovac barracks. I'd like
5 to take us a little bit forward in time now and I -- to a second
6 intercept or another intercept dated 16 January 1992 and I think we can
7 move into open session for the playing of this intercept.
8 We are in open session?
9 JUDGE ORIE: We are in open session.
10 MS. EDGERTON: The intercept transcripts bear the number
11 0328-8730 to 0328-8734 and that's the B/C/S version. I don't think we
12 have a number for that one as yet, do we?
13 JUDGE ORIE: Madam Registrar --
14 MS. EDGERTON: -- previously played a part, presently bears the
15 number P292 but only in part; is that correct? No?
16 JUDGE ORIE: I see that on my list ...
17 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]
18 JUDGE ORIE: Ms. Edgerton, of course we couldn't use this same
19 exhibit number if it's played in part only because then the additional
20 part would be missing. So therefore, we'll deal with the number -- we
21 can start playing it.
22 MS. EDGERTON: The English version of the transcript bears the
23 same number with the prefix ET in front of it.
24 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
25 Now, Ms. Edgerton, it's not quite clear to me whether P292 is a
1 part of what you are going to play now or whether you are going to play
2 now a part of P292. That's unclear on your list, at least. So
3 therefore, if you could -- because if we are now playing only a part of
4 P292, then of course there's no problem. If, however, P292 would be a
5 part of this intercept, then we would need to assign a new number.
6 MS. EDGERTON: I tried to check that over the weekend and I don't
7 have a detailed knowledge of what P292 was but I saw several intercepts
8 had been marked as being part of P292. Perhaps it was --
9 JUDGE ORIE: We'll check the ERN numbers and of course as the
10 Prosecution is having difficulties in knowing exactly what they tendered,
11 what was admitted, then you might have another problem.
12 Please proceed.
13 [Intercept played]
14 JUDGE ORIE: There's something wrong. We receive the B/C/S on
15 the English channel so let's restart. Could we stop? We received the
16 B/C/S on the English channel; therefore, we would have to restart and
17 let's just take care that the right microphones are open and that
18 connects to the right earphones.
19 Now I do not hear anything at all. There seems to be a technical
20 problem. May I ask whether the English booth was translating?
21 THE INTERPRETER: No, Your Honour.
22 JUDGE ORIE: Because you didn't hear B/C/S?
23 THE INTERPRETER: Yes, Your Honour.
24 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Because if we hear B/C/S then you might hear
25 something different on your channel.
1 MS. EDGERTON: Your Honour, actually, I don't hear anything at
2 all from the -- I didn't anything hear from the English booth.
3 THE INTERPRETER: Can you hear me now?
4 MS. EDGERTON: Not at all.
5 JUDGE ORIE: I now can hear you and Ms. Edgerton, do you now
6 receive the -- on channel 4?
7 MS. EDGERTON: Your indulgence again for a moment.
8 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
9 THE INTERPRETER: Can you hear the interpreter?
10 JUDGE ORIE: Ms. Edgerton, when you try, do you hear me?
11 THE INTERPRETER: And do you hear the interpreters?
12 MS. EDGERTON: Wonderful.
13 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Let's restart the intercept.
14 [Intercept played]
15 THE INTERPRETER: [Voiceover]
16 Jovan Tintor: Is Rajko there now, this is Joja --
17 Rajko Koprivica: Hello.
18 Jovan Tintor: Hey president...
19 Rajko Koprivica: Hey man, where are you...
20 Jovan Tintor: I have a meeting. I just wanted to give you a
21 call, you know...
22 I need to see Momo... probably Radovan will be there as well. I
23 don't know.
24 Rajko Koprivica: [Realtime transcript read in error: "Radovan
25 Karadzic:"] So what should I do? Should I hold?
1 Jovan Tintor: You should do that as I told you, please. Accept
2 that as --
3 Rajko Koprivica: No no. No way. You and me and Raso will sit
4 down. I will tell them that in your absence I am chairing and that is
5 it. I won't do anything special, just explain it to them what we do
6 today... Momo... not what Momo told me but when they started pushing
7 for the government... I'll tell them, 'Go ahead make your proposals but
8 what is this Momo told me.'
9 Jovan Tintor: Good. You know what he told you.
10 Rajko Koprivica: Well, I mean only as regards the government.
11 That's what they are interested in. And nothing else interests them
13 Jovan Tintor: Yeah, I mean what do they want with --
14 Rajko Koprivica: Well, you heard from Momo. Then there will be
15 one municipality... it will only be the town. Nothing. Are they mad?
16 But... All right. Don't worry. I'll let you know about all this.
17 You'll mainly be at the be at the Main Board and so on...
18 Jovan Tintor: ... to understand that.
19 Rajko Koprivica: Yes, you -- we have to meet... I lived in such
20 an environment. Leave those idiots be. Leave those idiots... in the
21 field. We turned out to be fucking idiots.
22 Jovan Tintor: Well damn it. Some people were here from the
23 centre of town and explained some things. They had a problem of similar
24 nature. Actually theirs was a different nature. And then they only
25 say... a small circle of people meets and says call these guys and don't
1 call those guys and that's it.
2 Rajko Koprivica: Right, no problems, pal. It will all pass.
3 I've received all the instructions as regards that. With Momo.
4 I stayed with this, I came with Makso and with Momo... for two
5 hours we... he said, wait, these are here, too.
6 Jovan Tintor: Well, yeah.
7 Rajko Koprivica: So we stayed on for a while. You stayed on a
8 bit longer, right?
9 Jovan Tintor: Yes, I had to.
10 Rajko Koprivica: Okay. Good. Is everything all right? They
11 recognised --
12 ... They recognised our Croatian brothers.
13 Jovan Tintor: The Macedonians. They haven't can't have
14 recognised the Croats!
15 Rajko Koprivica: They recognised Croatia and Slovenia.
16 Jovan Tintor: When, man?
17 Rajko Koprivica: Well, it was on the fucking news tonight.
18 Jovan Tintor: Wait, they recognised Macedonia. Not Croatia.
19 Rajko Koprivica: Not Croatia. They recognised Croatia.
20 Jovan Tintor: Who recognised Croatia?
21 Rajko Koprivica: Well the 12 member states of the EC.
22 Jovan Tintor: Don't fuck around with me!
23 Rajko Koprivica: Well, fucking hell. They just said that this
24 morning, today, last night, isn't that right? I just arrived from town.
25 The Commission found that Slovenia and Macedonia --
1 Jovan Tintor: And Macedonia, man.
2 Rajko Koprivica: Wait. The Commission found that Slovenia and
3 Croatia meet the conditions to be recognised. There really were reports
4 that they all recognised. Only -- they all recognised them, only the
5 Englishmen made a comment about how the Serbia would be angry.
6 Jovan Tintor: Oh, fucking hell.
7 Rajko Koprivica: Is that how -- is that a new moment for
8 these --
9 Jovan Tintor: How the hell would it not be?
10 Rajko Koprivica: Well yeah, pal. You never know with these
11 Latinos. They can do everything. They'll recognise Alija tomorrow, man.
12 What is the matter with you... We have to make other preparations.
13 It's... I just found out. I just arrived from town. I was in town all
14 fucking day. The whole bloody day.
15 Jovan Tintor: Well fuck. Let's round up all our people and
16 start fucking... first.
18 Rajko Koprivica: Well sure, Momo proposed that, you know Momo,
19 'never mind, Rajko, never mind; we're' --
20 Jovan Tintor: It's not...
21 Rajko Koprivica: I told Momo that he was deceiving himself
22 but... he can have it this way and then we'll see...
23 Jovan Tintor: Well yeah.
24 Rajko Koprivica: We should have finished that deal a long time
25 ago. Jole...
1 Jovan Tintor: Yeah.
2 Rajko Koprivica: You, Raso and me should meet tomorrow.
3 Jovan Tintor: Uh-huh. We have to see each other tonight as
4 well. I don't have this. I wouldn't go there for that.
5 Rajko Koprivica: I know. All right. Do you want me to give you
6 a call after this and then...??? Although Gordana is here... but someone
7 will drop her off and we can sit down and --
8 Jovan Tintor: Is she there?
9 Rajko Koprivica: I got her to Goran's place. Her brother is not
10 doing well.
11 Jovan Tintor: Okay.
12 Rajko Koprivica: Well, I can give her a lift as well and return,
13 sit down, have coffee.
14 Jovan Tintor: Well yeah, yeah... I don't know...
15 Rajko Koprivica: Well, you and Raso and me have to clear up some
17 Jovan Tintor: Well yes, wherever we agree. I won't --
18 Rajko Koprivica: Do you want to it do up there? I wouldn't be
19 longer than an hour or half an hour or an hour.
20 Jovan Tintor: Is Raso there?
21 Rajko Koprivica: Raso wants to see the news.
22 Jovan Tintor: Yeah.
23 Rajko Koprivica: So we won't meet tonight?
24 Jovan Tintor: We can watch the news at the hotel if you want.
25 Rajko Koprivica: Watch the news at the hotel. Right, Right.
1 Jovan Tintor: Well yeah. Up there at the Park. I'll be --
2 Rajko Koprivica: Okay. Deal.
3 Jovan Tintor: I'll be up there at 1930.
4 Rajko Koprivica: All right.
5 JUDGE ORIE: Ms. Edgerton, just for the record, in the beginning,
6 let me just find the place, page 5, line 20, Karadzic appears as in an
7 interlocutor which must be a mistake.
8 MS. EDGERTON: Yes, it is.
9 JUDGE ORIE: Please proceed.
10 MS. EDGERTON:
11 Q. Witness 73, I have two questions for you based on that
12 conversation. First, did you recognise the voices of either of the
14 A. Yes, that was Jovan Tintor and Rajko Koprivica's voices.
15 Q. And now if you could turn to the last page of the transcript of
16 that conversation, there's mention between the two speakers of a hotel by
17 the name of Park. Are you familiar with any hotel by the name of Park?
18 A. Yes, I'm familiar with the Hotel Park in Vogosca.
19 Q. Thank you. I have no more questions about that conversation.
20 And probably at this point we should move into private session again.
21 JUDGE ORIE: There seems to be a problem with the French
22 interpretation. Could we just -- it's functioning again.
23 Yes, please proceed. We turn it to private session.
24 [Private session]
11 Pages 12230-12285 redacted. Private session.
22 [Open session]
23 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Madam Registrar.
24 Witness 73, you've come to The Hague. You have answered the
25 questions of both parties. You have answered questions put to you by the
1 Bench. I'd like to thank you for coming and for giving your testimony
2 and I wish you to safe trip home again.
3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.
4 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you. Madam Usher, could you please escort the
5 witness out of the courtroom.
6 [The witness withdrew]
7 JUDGE ORIE: Madam Registrar, is -- for the next witness, we
8 would have the same protective measures but ...
9 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]
10 JUDGE ORIE: Ms. Edgerton, the number of the next witness would
12 MS. EDGERTON: Her number is 084, Your Honour, but there is the
13 matter of contextual documents before we finish off with 073.
14 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, but I was just wondering whether for practical
15 reasons, we should -- oh, yes, you said you would like to tender them.
16 Yes, we could do that now.
17 MS. LOUKAS: Just in relation to that, Your Honour, obviously
18 both Ms. Edgerton and I are dealing with, of course, the last witness and
19 the next witness. So if it would be of any assistance to start the next
20 witness, I'm sure we could deal with the he remainder of these exhibits
21 when we ...
22 JUDGE ORIE: I'm afraid that we need sometime because voice
23 distortion needs some additional preparation and testing. That's at
24 least what I understand. So therefore, we could not continue.
25 MS. LOUKAS: Just one further matter in relation to the last
1 witness, Your Honour. I may have stayed in I think closed session a
2 little too long there, but I was dealing with matters where it was quite
3 possible that the witness might identify himself.
4 I might, if Ms. Edgerton and I get an opportunity later to have a
5 look at the transcript, perhaps we could identify passages that can go
6 back into open session, what have you, because there are passages that
7 don't need to be in closed session and there are passages that are. So
8 perhaps if some allowance would be made for that as well.
9 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, if the parties could agree on those portions
10 that could be public, that would certainly assist the Chamber in making
11 any determinations.
12 Let's first deal with the contextual exhibits, Ms. Edgerton.
13 MS. EDGERTON: Dealing first then with the intercepts, Your
14 Honour, eight telephone intercepts, two of those eight already have
15 exhibit numbers. That's what I was given ...
16 JUDGE ORIE: That confuses Madam Registrar a bit.
17 MS. EDGERTON: I'm sorry.
18 JUDGE ORIE: To assign new numbers to it. Let's go through them.
19 7 March 1992. Yes.
20 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]
21 JUDGE ORIE: Could you identify the ones that have already been
22 assigned an exhibit number.
23 MS. EDGERTON: The one that I have that's been assigned an
24 exhibit number is 0322-0 --
25 JUDGE ORIE: Would you give the date that goes far quicker,
1 although we have some on the same date. I've got 7 March 1992; 4 April
2 1992; again 4 April 1992, 6 April 1992l, 18th of April. Then one without
3 a date. Then the 18th of April and the 19th of April. These are the
4 intercepts. Which one of these six?
5 MS. EDGERTON: One of the conversations on the 4th of April 1992.
6 JUDGE ORIE: Which one?
7 MS. EDGERTON: The one between Jovan Tintor and Momcilo
8 Krajisnik, bearing the number 0322-0618 to 0322-0619 I'm informed has a
9 designation similar to the previous one, P292 part.
10 JUDGE ORIE: Madam Registrar, perhaps we at a later stage -- yes,
11 if you give -- if, Ms. Edgerton, you give numbers to -- if you give
12 documents for prenumbering to Madam Registrar, then it would be good for
13 her to know that they received a number already because it disrupts a bit
14 the system.
15 MS. EDGERTON: My apologies and it won't happen again.
16 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. I take it that we leave it to Madam Registrar
17 to finalise the numbering that you just inform us on what documents you
18 still have. So we have now dealt with six telephone intercepts.
19 Ms. Loukas, I understand that the Defence does not dispute the
20 identity of the interlocutors as stated.
21 Ms. Loukas. I do understand that the Defence does not dispute
22 the identity of the interlocutors as given in the transcripts of these
23 telephone intercepts.
24 MS. LOUKAS: That's correct, Your Honour. I indicated that
25 earlier this morning and there is no problem with any of those intercepts
1 coming into evidence.
2 JUDGE ORIE: Fine. Then Ms. Edgerton, next would be?
3 MS. EDGERTON: Two documents, Your Honour, the first dated 2nd
4 May, 1992, the second dated 14 May 1992.
5 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. First one being "Serbian Municipal Assembly of
6 Vogosca crisis headquarters order."
7 MS. EDGERTON: Correct.
8 JUDGE ORIE: Second one being the "Serb Republic of BH Vogosca
9 Serbian municipality order" with a subject -- yes, that's an order as
10 well. First order signed by Jovanovic on behalf of Jovan Tintor. The
11 second one seems to bear the signature of Jovan Tintor.
12 MS. EDGERTON: Correct.
13 JUDGE ORIE: Ms. Loukas -- any further documents, Ms. Edgerton?
14 If not, Ms. Loukas, any objections?
15 MS. LOUKAS: No objections, Your Honour.
16 JUDGE ORIE: Then all these documents are admitted into evidence,
17 the final numbers to be assigned to them to Madam Registrar and to be
18 found on the list kept by Madam Registrar.
19 Any other procedural issue at this moment.
20 MS. EDGERTON: Not with respect to this witness.
21 JUDGE ORIE: Not with respect to this witness.
22 Ms. Loukas.
23 Ms. Loukas, it has some advantages if I'm not speaking loud
24 enough to put your headphones on. No procedural issues at this moment?
25 MS. LOUKAS: No, no procedural issues. We just have two
12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and
13 English transcripts.
1 outstanding issues in relation to the last witness' evidence, the point
2 that I made late on Thursday afternoon in relation to striking a certain
3 portion, and also today in relation to striking a certain portion.
4 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
5 MS. LOUKAS: But in relation to the next witness, I have no
6 procedural issues, Your Honours.
7 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Then in relation to the next witness, I think
8 the Judges have decided on protective measures last Friday, reasons still
9 to be given but the parties are informed about the content of our
11 Madam Registrar, how much time does it take to prepare for the --
12 to adjust -- it's ready already.
13 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]
14 JUDGE ORIE: I do understand that the preparation for voice
15 distortion is not witness specific. We'll adjourn until 20 minutes to
17 --- Recess taken at 12.21 p.m.
18 --- On resuming at 12.49 p.m.
19 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Before we continue, I would first like to give
20 the reasons for the decisions of last Friday.
21 Reasons for the decision on protective measures for the Witnesses
22 84, 239, and 270.
23 The Prosecution's motion for protective measures for Witnesses
24 84, 239, and 270 was filed on the 12th of April, 2005. It was then
25 amended on the 14th of April in relation to Witness 270 only. Also on
1 the 14th of April, the Chamber invited the Defence to consider whether it
2 might not concede the Prosecution's motion, in which case it would have
3 avoided a time-consuming written submission, seeing that, in the first
4 place, the applicable law on the subject of protective measures has been
5 restated by this Chamber time and again, in what we think are very clear
6 terms. Secondly, the Prosecution's motion seemed to make a relatively
7 strong case in favour of protective measures for the three witnesses.
8 While it is of no consequence, I note that at the time that we
9 made our invitation to the Defence, only at that time we were informed of
10 the Prosecution's further request to amend its motion in relation to
11 Witness 270. But that development did not make any difference to the
12 Chamber's invitation.
13 The Defence reply to the motion was sent to the Chamber by e-mail
14 on the afternoon of the 15th of April. The registrar has since kindly
15 been asked to have it filed. The Defence did not fully concede the
16 motion. More accurately, it opposed the motion, conceding for each
17 witness some measure of privacy or protection, but not the measures
19 The Chamber deliberated on that same afternoon, following which
20 the parties were informed by the legal officer of the Chamber's decision.
21 The decision was to grant the motion as amended. I shall now summarise
22 the reasons.
23 In relation to Witnesses 84 and 239, both of whom are expected to
24 allege that they were raped, it seems that the perpetrators of the
25 alleged rapes are at large, or might still be at large. The question is
1 whether the two witnesses should be granted voice distortion, image
2 distortion, and pseudonyms which I will call the basic measures, in
3 addition to private session for all testimony about the alleged rapes.
4 The latter measure is not opposed by the Defence.
5 The Chamber holds that the basic measures should be granted for
6 both witnesses in order to conceal their identity from a public audience.
7 The witnesses would be justified in fearing that a perpetrator following
8 the proceedings in open session could tell from the context of the
9 testimony that the lapse into private session is for the purpose of
10 dealing with allegations of rape in which the perpetrator can expect to
11 be implicated by the witness whom he has recognised as the victim of his
12 past actions. Both witnesses continue to reside in the locations where
13 the alleged crimes were committed. The objective basis of their fear is
14 thus easily and entirely predictable, and entirely predictably
15 established through the three-point test reiterated by the Chamber in its
16 remarks on the 14th of April.
17 The case for Witness 270 is also straightforward. She has
18 expressed such fear that she refuses to testify except in closed session.
19 The unique circumstances she allegedly experienced make her easily
20 identifiable, even under the protection of basic measures. It seems that
21 she has already been targeted by a person who heard her speak publicly
22 about the alleged crimes in another context. Since basic measures do not
23 suffice in the case of Witness 270, she is granted closed session and, as
24 well, a pseudonym.
25 This concludes the reasons for our decision, but I take this
1 opportunity once again to urge the parties to cooperate in matters of
2 protective measures. The parties must know by now what the Chamber will
3 say in each case. That is as it should be. You have a right to expect
4 that the law is clear and that its application is predictable.
5 Tomorrow, it will be the Defence's turn to ask for protective
6 measures for its witnesses, and of course the same rules will apply.
7 Both parties must understand that the Chamber is not prepared to take
8 risks with the security of witnesses in cases where fear has been
9 expressed and where there is an objective basis for the fear. This is
10 not an academic exercise in which hair-splitting technical arguments have
11 any place. The question is instead one of concrete common sense, as in
12 the example considered before, where the perpetrator is assumed to be
13 following the proceedings.
14 Prior to filing written motions for protective measures, the
15 parties should, from now on, explore the possibility of agreement. An
16 oral request to the Chamber might then suffice. Perhaps your cooperation
17 in this regard will be enhanced if I say that the parties by cooperating
18 will not be understood to have waived their right to question the
19 Chamber's approach to protective measures, either in their final briefs
20 or in any appeal from the Chamber's final judgement.
21 This concludes my remarks on the subject of cooperation.
22 Ms. Edgerton, are you ready to start the examination of
23 Witness 84?
24 MS. EDGERTON: I am, Your Honour. Just before we begin, I'd like
25 to make a few remarks on initially the 89(F) summary of the witness
1 that's been prepared. Your Honours would hear that this summary is
2 longer than what's normally within read out in court and I must say that
3 the witness asked for and I've given her the opportunity to take a part
4 in drafting or phrasing some of the contents of this summary. And Your
5 Honour - and the witness will be prepared to say this herself: These are
6 her words. For this witness while she fully understands that Your
7 Honours have copies of her previous statements, and those copies will be
8 filed as evidence and will be considered by the Trial Chamber, it's an
9 important aspect of this process for her in healing, I might say, in
10 unburdened herself, to have the words about her experiences spoken in the
12 So Your Honours, I would be asking for your indulgence, your
13 patience, to allow us to be a bit longer on this 89(F) summary which
14 would still save, in my submission, a great deal of time at the end of
15 the witness's testimony.
16 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Thank you, Ms. Edgerton. Yes.
17 MS. EDGERTON: And just an administrative matter, especially
18 given that the Prosecution didn't perform so well with respect to
19 contextual documents for the last witness and the numbering of them. I
20 do want to flag for the Trial Chamber, that tomorrow, we will be seeking
21 to do similarly as with the last witness, file a series of contextual
22 documents and intercepts. But those will be provided to Madam Registrar
23 at the outset with a clear indication of what's been previously filed.
24 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
25 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]
1 JUDGE ORIE: Ms. Edgerton, Madam Registrar does not need any
2 exhibits or any document that has been previously tendered and admitted.
3 Of course it's nice for us to have it into our hands so that we don't
4 have to dive into our files and find it. But Madam Registrar would be --
5 it would rather confuse her than assist her if you give her anything
6 that's already in evidence. But I'm certain that our performance will
7 become better and better.
8 Ms. Loukas, any problem as far as the 89(F) summary is concerned?
9 MS. LOUKAS: No, Your Honour, there's no problem with the 89(F)
10 summary from the point of the Defence and I take on board the things that
11 Ms. Edgerton has mentioned.
12 JUDGE ORIE: Ms. Edgerton, I take it that especially if a witness
13 herself is taking part in formulating, then of course protective measures
14 should be looked at even with more scrutiny than normally. I take it
15 that you have done that.
16 MS. EDGERTON: Yes, Your Honour.
17 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Then Madam Usher, could you please escort the
18 witness into the courtroom.
19 Madam Registrar, I take it that all the technical requirements
20 are functioning.
21 [The witness entered court]
22 WITNESS: WITNESS 84
23 [Witness answered through interpreter]
24 JUDGE ORIE: Good afternoon, Witness.
25 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good afternoon.
1 JUDGE ORIE: I say Witness 84 because we'll not use your name in
2 these proceedings. We'll call you by the number 84. Also, your face
3 cannot be seen by the outside world; neither can your voice be heard
4 directly, that is, your voice is distorted before broadcasted. Apart
5 from that, parts of your testimony that might identify your identity may
6 be given in private session, that is that what you say is not at all
7 conveyed to the public.
8 Before you give evidence in this Court, the Rules of Procedure
9 and Evidence require you to make a solemn declaration that you will speak
10 the truth, the whole trust nothing but the truth. I'd like to invite you
11 to make that solemn declaration of which the text will be handed out to
12 you by Madam Usher.
13 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly swear that I will speak
14 the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
15 JUDGE ORIE: Witness 84, please be seated.
16 You will first be examined by Ms. Edgerton, counsel for the
18 Ms. Edgerton, please proceed.
19 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone for Ms. Edgerton, please.
20 MS. EDGERTON: Could we just shift the ELMO away from the witness
21 so that we can see one another, please.
22 Examined by Ms. Edgerton:
23 MS. EDGERTON:
24 Q. Witness 84, now, you're going to be given a sheet of paper with
25 some information on the front. I'd like you to have a look at that sheet
1 of paper and tell us if that's your name and date of birth that appear
2 there and whether that information is correct.
3 A. Yes.
4 MS. EDGERTON: I'd ask that that be filed as the first exhibit,
5 please, under seal.
6 JUDGE ORIE: Madam Registrar, that would be ...
7 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]
8 JUDGE ORIE: The number will be assigned at a later stage when we
9 have cleaned up the numbering of the previous exhibits.
10 MS. EDGERTON: Now, since this witness's statements will be filed
11 under Rule 89(F), I would ask that we move into closed session, if that's
12 possible, because we'll be talking about the dates in which these
13 statements were taken and that might serve to identify an -- private
14 session, pardon me -- that might serve to be an identifying factor.
15 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, we'll turn into private session.
16 [Private session]
11 Pages 12300-12314 redacted. Private session.
17 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.47 p.m.
18 to be reconvened on Tuesday, the 19th day of
19 April, 2005, at 9.00 a.m.