1 Tuesday, 14th September, 1999
2 [Status Conference]
3 [Open session]
4 --- Upon commencing at 10.08 a.m.
5 JUDGE HUNT: It's almost time for another
6 Status Conference, and I thought it may be
7 appropriate -- I'm sorry I haven't given you warning,
8 but when I looked up the dates, I realised the
9 timing -- it may be appropriate to treat this as a
10 Status Conference. If there is anything that you want
11 to raise, either party, later on which you would have
12 raised at a Status Conference, I will, of course,
13 reconstitute it for that purpose.
14 The only thing that is outstanding from the
15 previous one is this troublesome matter of the
16 exculpatory material, Rule 68. Ms. Kuo has been
17 telling me how valiantly the Prosecution has been
18 searching for this material each time. I think the
19 time has come when we have some sort of a time limit on
21 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone for counsel,
23 MR. RYNEVELD: Your Honour, having recently
24 taken over conduct of this matter, I'm going to ask my
25 colleague, Ms. Kuo, to deal with the issue of the
1 exculpatory material. I understand that a number of
2 materials have, in fact, been gathered, but I will let
3 Ms. Kuo elaborate upon that to satisfy the Court's
5 JUDGE HUNT: Thank you.
6 Yes, Ms. Kuo.
7 MS. KUO: Yes, Your Honour. We anticipate
8 that within two month's time, we should have the
9 exculpatory materials. We should be able to go through
10 the materials we currently have and turn over any
11 exculpatory materials.
12 JUDGE HUNT: It's anything within your
13 possession or within your knowledge, which would
14 include material not only within your possession but
15 material you know about.
16 MS. KUO: Yes, I understand that as well.
17 JUDGE HUNT: There had been a number of
18 problems in trials recently with the compliance with
19 this Rule, and I think that the time has come where we
20 have to put some form of additional onus on the
22 What I had in mind would be like an affidavit
23 of discovery, which those of us who are familiar with
24 the common law system would be very aware of. Perhaps
25 the case manager should be able to take the
1 responsibility for saying that there has been a
2 complete search of all that material.
3 I think there has come, myself, a time for
4 this sort of procedure to be followed.
5 MS. KUO: We would certainly be able to
6 comply with that, Your Honour.
7 JUDGE HUNT: Two months, you say?
8 MS. KUO: Yes.
9 JUDGE HUNT: That's a Sunday. I think if we
10 make it Monday, the 15th of November, would that be all
12 MS. KUO: That's agreeable, Your Honour.
13 JUDGE HUNT: All right.
14 I'm sorry. Is there anything you want to say
15 about this, Mr. Vasic? It's all in your favour, I
16 would think, what I'm proposing, or in your client's
17 favour, should I say. Is there anything you want to
18 say about it?
19 MR. VASIC: [Interpretation] Thank you very
20 much, Your Honour.
21 We understand that this is favourable to the
22 Defence, and the more comprehensive material we
23 receive, the better we will be able to prepare our
24 defence. We are now expecting the materials from the
25 Prosecution. I was even told that today I would be
1 receiving further supporting materials. Based on what
2 we receive, we will proceed as needed. The Defence
3 will submit all the preliminary motions in as short a
4 period of time as possible.
5 As my client has pointed out, 15 months
6 later, we have a further initial appearance, so we are
7 at the starting point, but I want to thank Your Honour
8 for considering the interests of the Defence in this
10 JUDGE HUNT: I know it's of no comfort to
11 your client when I say this, but his trial is not in
12 any way delayed by the need for the Prosecution to
13 re-plead the indictment and for your client to
14 re-plead. He is still the next trial but one in Trial
15 Chamber II, but hopefully we'll have some better news
16 for him about when his trial is due to start by the end
17 of the year.
18 I propose to make these orders. I'll hear
19 what you want to say about the terms of them after I
20 have set them out, and I'll make the order in these
21 terms if there is no objection taken to them.
22 "1. The prosecution is to comply, on or before
23 the 15th of November, with its obligation
24 pursuant to Rule 68 of the Rules of Procedure
25 and Evidence to disclose to the defence the
1 existence of evidence known to it:
2 (a) which may in any way tend to suggest
3 the innocence of, or to mitigate the
4 guilt of, the accused, or
5 (b) which may affect the credibility of
6 the prosecution evidence.
7 The expression 'evidence' is intended to
8 include any material which may put the
9 accused on notice that material exists which
10 may assist him in his defence, and it is not
11 limited to material which is itself
12 admissible in evidence.
13 2. On or before that date, the prosecution is to
14 file an affidavit of its case manager for
15 this case, sworn in accordance with the law
16 and procedure of the State in which such
17 affidavit is signed, in which he or she
19 (a) that a full search has been conducted
20 throughout the materials in the possession of
21 the prosecution or otherwise within its
22 knowledge for the existence of such evidence;
24 (b) that he or she is aware of the continuing
25 nature of the obligation pursuant to
1 Rule 68."
2 Is there anything you want to say about those
4 Yes, Ms. Kuo.
5 MS. KUO: Your Honour, the only thing is
6 whether it needs to be the case manager. Our analyst
7 on the team is the one that's been most intimately
8 involved in this, and would it be more appropriate,
9 perhaps, for that person to sign an affidavit?
10 JUDGE HUNT: Yes. I had suggested the case
11 manager earlier only because I thought he or she, as
12 the case may be, at any particular time would have the
13 best knowledge. The analyst is what, a legal officer?
14 MS. KUO: I'm not sure exactly the technical
15 status, but it's the person who has been working -- she
16 has a law degree.
17 JUDGE HUNT: Is she employed as a P-2, or
18 whatever, that's what I'm really after, as a legal
20 MS. KUO: I believe so. I don't know the
21 exact -- I know it's a professional level, but I don't
22 know the exact title.
23 JUDGE HUNT: "Professional level" will do.
24 The analyst; all right. Is that a sufficient
25 description of the position, "analyst"? Analyst for
1 this case?
2 MS. KUO: Yes, Your Honour.
3 JUDGE HUNT: Well, by substituting the word
4 "analyst" for "case manager," I make orders in those
6 Is there anything else that either party
7 wants to raise?
8 MR. RYNEVELD: If I may, if it please Your
9 Honour --
10 JUDGE HUNT: Yes, Mr. Ryneveld.
11 MR. RYNEVELD: The manner of swearing of the
12 affidavit requires clarification, of course --
13 JUDGE HUNT: I follow the terms of the
15 MR. RYNEVELD: Yes.
16 JUDGE HUNT: There is a rule relating to
17 affidavits, and that is the terms.
18 MR. RYNEVELD: Fine.
19 JUDGE HUNT: So if it's signed here in the
20 Netherlands, then somebody will have to find out how
21 you swear an affidavit in the Netherlands.
22 MR. RYNEVELD: Thank you. The second issue,
23 of course, is that my understanding is that the
24 obligation for providing exculpatory material is an
25 ongoing obligation, and I take it that if, as of the
1 15th of November, the affidavit indicates that all of
2 the information then known to the Prosecution would be
3 captured in that affidavit, if, of course, additional
4 information became available thereafter, we would be on
5 a continuing obligation to provide that to the Defence
6 as quickly as it became known to us. Certainly there
7 is a rule there as well.
8 JUDGE HUNT: Yes.
9 MR. RYNEVELD: I just want to make absolutely
10 sure that we understand that our obligation is an
11 ongoing obligation and that the affidavit simply
12 captures the information known to the Prosecution up to
13 the date of the swearing of the affidavit.
14 JUDGE HUNT: That's so, but there is an
15 ongoing obligation to disclose anything else that comes
16 to the knowledge or into the possession of the
18 MR. RYNEVELD: Absolutely, Your Honour.
19 That's the point.
20 JUDGE HUNT: And it continues right up to the
22 MR. RYNEVELD: And perhaps, arguably, even
24 JUDGE HUNT: Oh, dear, yes, I suppose it
25 does, yes.
1 MR. RYNEVELD: Thank you, Your Honour.
2 JUDGE HUNT: But thank you for that.
3 Is there anything that you want to raise,
4 Mr. Vasic?
5 MR. VASIC: No, thank you, Your Honour. I
6 believe that this deadline of two months, since we have
7 a new lead Prosecutor, is a necessary one, and we
8 believe that we will receive all the pertinent
9 materials within that period of time that we are
10 supposed to be getting from the Prosecution.
11 Thank you.
12 JUDGE HUNT: Thank you very much.
13 All right. If there is nothing else, I'll
14 note that this has been a Status Conference and that
15 the time limit imposed by the Rules for the next Status
16 Conference will run from today.
17 I'm grateful to counsel and to the parties
18 generally for their assistance, and I'll adjourn.
19 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at
20 10.20 a.m. sine die