1 Friday, 28 July 2000
2 [Open session]
3 --- Upon commencing at 9.35 a.m.
4 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Good morning, ladies and
5 gentlemen; good morning, technical booth; good morning to the
6 interpreters; good morning, court recorders and legal assistants; good
7 morning to the Prosecution, Mr. Harmon, Mr. McCloskey, Mr. Cayley; good
8 morning, Defence counsel, Mr. Petrusic and Mr. Visnjic.
9 We are here to resume our proceedings in the Krstic case. I think
10 I'm going to give the floor to the Defence.
11 Mr. Visnjic.
12 MR. VISNJIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, the Defence should
13 like to notify the Chamber that General Krstic has given written agreement
14 that today's hearing be held in his absence or, rather, he waives his
15 right to be present today, and this statement was handed to the registrar
16 prior to the beginning of the proceedings.
17 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Are there any reasons of health
18 for this?
19 MR. VISNJIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, I think there are
20 certain reasons of health. In view of the most recent events in the past
21 few days, I feel the General feels a bit exhausted.
22 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Mr. Harmon.
23 MR. HARMON: Good morning, Mr. President, Your Honours. Good
24 morning to my colleagues.
25 Mr. President, we're prepared to proceed today. An accused has a
1 right to be present at his own trial or he has a right to be absent, and
2 as long as he makes an intelligent waiver of his right to be present, we
3 have no objection to proceeding today.
4 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] We do have a written statement
5 from General Krstic in which he waives his right to be present, and we
6 agree, therefore, to continue in his absence.
7 Madam Registrar, please take the document and give it a number,
8 please, a Defence exhibit number.
9 THE REGISTRAR: The waiver is Defence Exhibit D25.
10 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] So, Mr. Harmon, let us proceed.
11 MR. HARMON: Mr. President, I would request that we proceed in
12 closed session.
13 [Closed session]
8 [Open session]
9 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] The Chamber is issuing today a
10 written decision with the following conclusions: For reasons which are
11 given in the written decision, the Chamber orders the holding in closed
12 session of a part of the hearings on the 28th of July, 2000. The exhibits
13 tendered during that part of the hearing and the transcript of that
14 hearing will be kept under seal. By this decision, the Chamber also
15 orders that the visual recording of the discussions be made public and
16 communicated to the public within one week at 9.30 on the 4th of August,
17 2000, and will be shown in Courtroom III. It also orders that the
18 exhibits tendered during that hearing and the transcript of that hearing
19 be made public at that time.
20 Therefore, pursuant to the provisions of this ruling, I ask that
21 we go into private session, please.
22 [Private session]
13 [Closed session]
11 Pages 5868-5873 redacted. Closed session.
20 [Open session]
21 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] So, we are now in public
22 session. I wish to repeat that the contents of this hearing, this closed
23 session hearing, will be made public on the 4th of August this year in
24 Courtroom III. I am saying this so that there should be no
1 You will please take note of this, Madam Registrar. I am waiting
2 for a reply for the record, please.
3 THE REGISTRAR: Yes, it has been noted, actually, that the hearing
4 will be held next Friday, August 4th, Courtroom III, at 9.30.
5 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Very well. And all the
6 documents and the proceedings from this hearing remain under seal until
7 that day, so we understand one another very well now.
8 So I think we have two more problems to address, Mr. Harmon. That
9 is the question of the admission of certain documents into evidence, and
10 after that another question, and that is the Status Conference, and I
11 should like to hear the views of the Defence specifically.
12 So Mr. Harmon, first regarding the first point.
13 MR. HARMON: Mr. President, and Your Honours, good afternoon. We
14 are concluding our case today, and in reviewing all of the exhibits and
15 the status of all of the exhibits, many of them have to be regulated in
16 terms of their present status, whether they're under seal or not under
17 seal. This task, I might add, is a Herculean task that my colleague
18 Kirsten Keith has put in a great deal of time and effort in trying to
19 resolve all of these problems, and for that I and the trial team are
20 firmly indebted.
21 Let me say that, if I could suggest a procedure, and to resolve
22 this expeditiously today, there are literally hundreds of exhibits that I
23 must comment on, and rather than do that and remain here until Saturday or
24 possibly Sunday, I have created additional exhibits which --
25 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Don't do that to us, Mr. Harmon.
1 MR. HARMON: Well, I've created additional exhibits which
2 summarise what needs to be done, and the status of these exhibits. So I
3 understand, Your Honours, that these exhibits have been distributed to
4 Your Honours. They're on the bench, and that I've already provided a copy
5 of these exhibits to my colleagues from the Defence.
6 And if I could start with Prosecutor's Exhibit 722, again, this
7 touches upon a problem of translation. I'm indebted to my colleagues from
8 the Defence. They speak the language; they are able to notice certain
9 errors that have appeared in translations in exhibits that have been
10 tendered by the Prosecutor's Office. They advised me of that. I
11 submitted -- we've both submitted jointly to the Language Service section
12 a request that these documents be reconsidered. And you will find, Your
13 Honours, in Prosecutor's Exhibit 722 a list of numbers which I will
14 explain in Prosecutor's Exhibit 722 what they represent.
15 There are two columns. The first column, we'll start with 302/1A
16 bis. The original Exhibit was 302/1A, and it has been corrected now by
17 the Language Service section. So we're tendering in its place 302/1A
18 bis. And that very same exhibit appeared in other volumes of exhibits
19 that we had also tendered, and we have now substituted the correction at
20 each relevant place in those other volumes of exhibits. So the very same
21 intercept that is the subject of 302/1A bis now finds corrections in
22 Prosecutor's Exhibit 364 at the tab 14 July/9 bis, so a corrected version
23 has been inserted at that location, and a corrected version is now -- and
24 the same intercept is found at 559/A bis. So Prosecutor's Exhibit 722
25 then represents where the corrected translations of the intercepted
1 communications are found throughout the body of Prosecution evidence.
2 I would note only the second to last entry from the bottom, 343/1A
3 bis. The three corrected versions found in volume 364, 12 July/tab 13 bis
4 and 444/A bis, those exhibits must remain under seal. All the other
5 corrected versions do not have to be under seal.
6 The next exhibit, set of exhibits I'd like to present to Your
7 Honours is found in the Prosecutor's Exhibit 374. These are other
8 revisions to translations. There are three items listed on this exhibit,
9 and these are revisions to English language only exhibits. They have been
10 identified in Prosecutor's Exhibit 734.
11 Prosecutor's Exhibit 735 is a five-page -- I'm sorry. It should
12 be a four-page document, and this represents a list of French and B/C/S
13 translations for exhibits that have previously been tendered in the
14 English language only. The exhibit numbers are listed, and it is, as I
15 say, four pages long.
16 The next exhibit is Prosecutor's Exhibit 736. It represents a
17 five-page list of exhibits, of Prosecutor's exhibits that have been
18 tendered since 19 June 2000, and these specific exhibits contained in this
19 Prosecutor's Exhibit 736, we're requesting that each of these exhibits be
20 placed under seal.
21 The next exhibit I would like to refer the Court to is
22 Prosecutor's Exhibit 737 and Prosecutor's Exhibit 738. These are -- the
23 first is Prosecutor's Exhibit 737, is a one-page exhibit, and Prosecutor's
24 Exhibit 738 is a 19-page exhibit. Specifically, Prosecutor's Exhibit 738
25 is a list of exhibits that are contained in a two-volume set, Prosecutor's
1 Exhibit 364. The purpose of submitting both of these exhibits is to
2 request that these exhibits which are presently protected by the seal of
3 the Court be removed from that protection.
4 Turning to another list, which is Prosecutor's Exhibit 394 bis,
5 this is a list of exhibits that were tendered through the testimony of
6 Richard Butler, and this is a list -- we would ask that Prosecutor's
7 Exhibit 394 bis be substituted for Prosecutor's Exhibit 394, which is
8 currently under seal.
9 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Mr. Harmon, in relation to this
10 Exhibit 394, I think we still need to render a decision regarding this
11 exhibit. I'm talking -- if my memory serves me.
12 MR. HARMON: Before I then offer this particular exhibit, I'll
13 wait for the decision of the Chamber. Let me withdraw that at this
15 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Yes. Very well.
16 MR. HARMON: In addition to these summaries of exhibits and what
17 their status is, we have some new exhibits to tender. One is an exhibit
18 which is a report of Mark Mills, who was an expert on watches. It was a
19 reference earlier during the testimony of some of the Prosecutor's experts
20 who testified about their findings in exhumations. We will be tendering
21 this expert report, which will be Exhibit 210, and a table 210/A, as
22 exhibits. The expert report of Mr. Mills was filed pursuant to
23 Rule 94 bis on January the 6th, 2000, and the Defence agreed to accept the
24 conclusions of that report orally -- it wasn't -- their response wasn't in
25 writing -- on the 7th of February, 2000. So we would tender Mark Mills'
1 report and the accompanying table as a new exhibit.
2 Moving on to the next new exhibit that we have, the Prosecutor's
3 Office had previously tendered a film as an exhibit. It's Prosecutor's
4 Exhibit number 3. We are now tendering for the Court's consideration the
5 translations of that film in French, English, and B/C/S. Prosecutor's
6 Exhibit 3A will be the English transcript of that film, Prosecutor's 3B
7 will be the B/C/S transcript of the film, and 3C will be the French
8 transcript of the film.
9 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] I think that we don't have that
10 exhibit on our table.
11 MR. HARMON: We have -- Mr. President, we have those exhibits
12 here, and rather than pass each one of those up, if I could --
13 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Please proceed.
14 MR. HARMON: The Prosecutor's Office also submitted a film. It's
15 Prosecutor's Exhibit 148. It's a film of a Dutch APC in a ditch and
16 various Bosnian Serb soldiers and officers standing around in that film.
17 We now have translation or transcript from that film. We are tendering,
18 therefore, Prosecutor's Exhibit 148A, an English transcript; 148B, a B/C/S
19 transcript; and 148C, a French transcript.
20 Our next exhibit, Mr. President, are certain -- are Prosecutor's
21 Exhibits 112 through 115. These are summaries of news accounts from
22 various news sources. The summaries are from the Fibus reporting
23 service. They're Exhibits 112 to 115. I have shown copies of these
24 exhibits to the Defence. They have no objection to their presentation.
25 The next exhibit that we will be offering to the Court is a graph,
12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French
13 and English transcripts.
1 and I refer the Trial Chamber to Prosecutor's Exhibit 232. Prosecutor's
2 Exhibit 232 was introduced by Mr. Jose Baraybar, and when Mr. Cayley was
3 examining Mr. Baraybar about that particular exhibit -- and his
4 examination of Mr. Baraybar is found in the English-language version of
5 the transcript at pages 3806 through 3808 -- Mr. Cayley asked Mr. Baraybar
6 if he had made an arithmetical error in his calculations as to a certain
7 chart, and Mr. Baraybar acknowledged that there had been an error and that
8 that error was shown in a chart of his report.
9 We are now submitting to the Trial Chamber that an error was
10 repeated in a graph that was also found in Baraybar's report, and we're
11 offering the corrected version of the graph that is consistent with the
12 corrected version of the chart. So that will be a new exhibit.
13 Lastly, Mr. President, we had before the Court, during the
14 testimony of Mr. Helge Brunborg, submitted to the Court two large
15 dossiers, one -- lists, I should say, of persons who are missing from
16 Srebrenica. One was prepared by the ICRC, which was Prosecutor's
17 Exhibit 270; and one was prepared by the ICTY by mister -- I should say by
18 Mr. Brunborg himself, Prosecutor's Exhibit 271.
19 We had tendered that exhibit on the 1st of June, 2000, and
20 admission of that exhibit was deferred for one month pending an
21 opportunity of the Defence to study and examine that particular exhibit.
22 We are now tendering that exhibit. I have consulted with my
23 colleagues from the Defence and I defer to them to inform you, but they
24 are in agreement now or I should say they have no objection to it now
25 being admitted into evidence.
1 And that concludes my submissions on these exhibits, with the
2 exception of Prosecutor's Exhibit 394.
3 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Thank you very much,
4 Mr. Harmon. Two observations. I think you should share your salary with
5 the Defence because they have helped you a lot; and we registered the good
6 mathematical talents of Mr. Cayley; and a third point, we're going to give
7 the floor to the Defence, and I'm going to ask Defence counsel whether
8 they wish to go exhibit by exhibit or are you in a position to make your
9 point regarding the whole set?
10 MR. VISNJIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, we shall try to be
11 very expeditious. Regarding Exhibit 271, which is Mr. Brunborg's report,
12 our deadline was the 30th of June to see whether we would have any
13 objections regarding that exhibit, and I must say that until that date our
14 investigations did not reveal any circumstances that would prompt us to
15 make any objections here in Court. Therefore, we have no objections
16 regarding that exhibit; but we would like to reserve the right if, in the
17 course of our further investigations, we should discover any circumstances
18 related to this exhibit, that we present those facts that we uncover as a
19 result of our investigations to the Trial Chamber.
20 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Mr. Harmon, in relation to the
21 reservation expressed by the Defence?
22 MR. HARMON: We certainly have no objection to their presenting
23 any evidence that would conflict with our exhibits.
24 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] I think we can already give you
25 an answer, that the Chamber will admit into evidence this Exhibit 270 and
1 271, that is, the Brunborg report.
2 MR. VISNJIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, regarding the other
3 exhibits, we have a very brief comment to make, and that is that we have
4 no objection.
5 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Are you going to ask an addition
6 to your salary, Mr. Visnjic?
7 So, Madam Registrar, have you taken note of all these documents?
8 You have fully understood what we need to do with those documents, that
9 is, which are the corrections, which are the documents that need to be
10 admitted under seal, which are the documents that should be removed from
11 being kept under seal, the report of Mr. Brian Mills, the expert, the
12 summaries of the Fibus reporting service, and the report by Jose Baraybar
13 under the guidance of Mr. Cayley. Have you understood all that?
14 THE REGISTRAR: Yes, I have, and I will be asking the Prosecution
15 for part of their salary also.
16 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Thank you very much. So I think
17 we're really coming to an end in a good mood, and that is a good thing
18 when we come to the end of something. We are tired, but in a positive
20 I now take another point that I would like to address.
21 Mr. Petrusic and Mr. Visnjic, I should like to propose to you for your
22 consideration the 5th, the week of the 5th to the 9th of September and/or,
23 we will see, the week from the 2nd to the 6th of October to have a Status
24 Conference in preparation of the Defence case pursuant to Rule 65 ter,
25 paragraph "D", "J" -- I'm sorry, "G" as in "gateau," cake. Okay.
1 And when I was saying that I was suggesting these two dates, it is
2 to have a Status Conference and also a pre-trial case, conference, so that
3 we can have a conference prior to the Defence case on the same day or the
4 same week. In any event, we're open to the suggestion of any other date
5 that may suit you because I know that you will be very busy, but this also
6 is part of your work.
7 MR. VISNJIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, as far as I
8 understand it, you have offered us two dates, 2 to the 5th of September
9 and 2 to the 6th of October. Does it mean we can choose between the two?
10 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Yes. We're giving you two weeks
11 to choose a day for a Status Conference and a Pre-trial Conference, if
12 there's not too much to do, or one day for a Status Conference and another
13 day for the conference.
14 What we need to consider is the provisions of Rule 65 ter and 73
15 ter. You can examine the rules and tell us which is the date that suits
16 you, but bearing in mind the fact that we intend to resume proceedings
17 with the Defence case on the 16th of October. Therefore, before the
18 beginning of the Defence case, we need to fulfil all the conditions
19 envisaged in Articles 65 ter and 73 ter, Rules, these Rules that I have
20 already mentioned.
21 MR. VISNJIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, may we be given a few
22 days before we give you an answer? Do we need to make a choice today, or
23 may we notify the registrar or the Prosecution subsequently?
24 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] That is quite possible. I am
25 suggesting these dates, and we are ready to consider another date. The
1 only thing that you need to do is to bear in mind that all these steps
2 need to be taken in accordance with these rules, 65 ter and 73 ter. So I
3 think you can communicate with the legal officer of the Chamber who will
4 be here before us, I think, or through the registrar; but the legal
5 assistant of the Chamber will always be here, Mr. Fourmy.
6 MR. VISNJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you very much, Mr. President.
7 We will certainly fit into one of the dates that you have suggested.
8 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Fine. I think there is one more
9 matter to deal with. My dear colleague Judge Wald has drawn my attention
10 to it, and that is the Exhibit 394.
11 I think that I have mentioned that it was not quite clear to the
12 Chamber what was the position regarding the motion to admit certain
13 documents under seal which were part of the exhibit. Perhaps I could ask
14 the Defence.
15 I see that Mr. Harmon was about to stand to say something.
16 MR. HARMON: Your Honour, the list of exhibits under 394 was under
17 seal because there were certain areas that were sensitive, and therefore
18 that, as I understood, was the -- one of the objections, and I'll let,
19 obviously, the Defence state any other objections, but one of the reasons
20 it was under seal was because of what was contained in the summary.
21 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] I think we can reorganise this
23 In any event, Mr. Visnjic, do you have any objections in relation
24 to this exhibit? We know that you have an objection of substance.
25 MR. VISNJIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, no new elements
1 except -- aside from those presented by my colleague Mr. Petrusic.
2 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] In that case, the Chamber will
3 render its decision regarding this Exhibit 394 bis now.
4 The Prosecutor has requested the admission into evidence of the
5 exhibits listed in Exhibit 394 bis. The Defence objected to the admission
6 of certain exhibits, giving the same grounds as those presented when
7 objecting to the admission of radio intercepts which were the object of
8 the ruling of this Chamber on the 27th of June, 2000.
9 Having heard the parties and reviewed the exhibits, and there were
10 motives for the objections, the Chamber rules, bearing in mind Articles
11 97(C) and 94, Rule 94 of the Rules of Procedure and Evidence, to grant the
12 request of the Prosecutor and orders the admission into evidence of all
13 the exhibits as requested.
14 That is the decision of the Chamber. Mr. Harmon.
15 MR. HARMON: Mr. President, in view of the Court's decision, then
16 I renew my -- I would retender then Prosecutor's Exhibit 394 bis, which is
17 a list of the exhibits contained in 394, but it is a list without the
18 summary, and we would ask that this be substituted or the previous list
19 with the summary was under seal. We would ask that that remain under
20 seal, and this, without the sources does not have to be under seal. So we
21 are tendering then this Exhibit 394 bis, for your consideration as well.
22 And with that final exhibit, then we would rest our case, Mr. President.
23 Thank you.
24 Thank you Your Honours, and we wish Your Honours a good vacation,
25 and the same to our colleagues and to the staff and everybody who has
1 helped us in this case. Thank you.
2 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Mr. Visnjic, have you any
3 objection to the admission into evidence of this exhibit?
4 MR. VISNJIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, the Chamber has
5 already admitted those exhibits into evidence, so we have no objections.
6 I should like to take advantage of this opportunity to make a request, as
7 the Chamber is in full -- present in full, and if this might happen a few
8 days later, perhaps the Chamber will not be able to rule.
9 The Defence will, in the ensuing period consider whether to submit
10 a proposal in line with the provisions of 98 bis (A), according to which a
11 seven-day time period is envisaged from the end of the Prosecution case
12 but, in any event, prior to the beginning of the Defence case.
13 In view of the fact that in the last few months we have received a
14 large number of documents from the Prosecution, we will take -- we will
15 need some time to make a decision about this. So I wanted to take
16 advantage of this opportunity, in accordance with Rule 127, to make a
17 request to the Trial Chamber for a prolongation of the time period from
18 98 bis, and I would suggest that it be until this week of the 5th to the
19 9th of September that I see that the Chamber has offered as a possibility
20 and when the Chamber will be present in its full composition. Thank you.
21 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Thank you very much,
22 Mr. Visnjic. The exhibit mentioned by the Prosecutor is admitted into
24 Mr. Harmon, in relation to this request by Mr. Visnjic, what is
25 your comment?
1 MR. HARMON: We have no objection to this, Mr. President.
2 [Trial Chamber deliberates]
3 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] In relation to the request just
4 made by the Defence counsel orally, in view of the fact that there is no
5 objection on the part of the Prosecution and bearing in mind the interests
6 of justice and pursuant to the provisions of Article -- Rule 98 bis and
7 Rule 127 of the Rules of Procedure and Evidence, the Chamber decides to
8 grant an extension of the time limit mentioned in Rule 98 bis until the
9 9th of September, 2000. That is the decision of the Chamber.
10 It should also be said now that the Prosecutor has completed its
11 case today, the 28th of July.
12 That also brings to an end this session, 20 minutes over the time
13 that we had wished, but I think that we can all agree that though we have
14 worked a lot and we are indeed tired, I think we're all looking forward to
15 a holiday, nevertheless, we have had some humour and this is necessary to
16 invigorate us and motivate us.
17 So for the moment, I think I can speak on behalf of my
18 colleagues. We would like to wish you a good holiday and a good rest,
19 because after the holiday -- of course there will be people working during
20 the holiday, but after the holiday, there is other work waiting for us.
21 So we must be well prepared for that work.
22 We have reached one objective that we set ourselves, and that is
23 the termination of the presentation of evidence by the Prosecutor. I
24 think I need to express appreciation to everyone for the work they have
25 done, for the cooperation demonstrated between the parties, and the
1 readiness of all staff members here present in the courtroom and outside
2 the courtroom, but also looking at the courtroom, the interpreters, the
3 audio-visual booth, for their readiness to work extra time, which was
4 always done with a smile.
5 So have a good holiday everyone, and success in the work of those
6 who have to do that. If both can be mixed, perhaps the results will be
7 best. I don't remember the date any more but, anyway, we will meet again
8 as noted in the transcript. So au revoir have a good holiday.
9 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned sine die
10 at 3.24 p.m.