1 Monday, 16 February 2004
2 [Status Conference]
3 [Open session]
4 [The accused entered court]
5 --- Upon commencing at 2.51 p.m.
6 JUDGE WEINBERG DE ROCA: Good afternoon. Madam Registrar, would
7 you call the case.
8 THE REGISTRAR: Good afternoon, Your Honour. This is case number
9 IT-98-30/1-A, the Prosecutor versus Miroslav Kvocka, Mladjo Radic, Zoran
10 Zigic, and Dragoljub Prcac.
11 JUDGE WEINBERG DE ROCA: Thank you. The appearances, please. For
12 the Prosecution.
13 MS. BRADY: Good afternoon, Your Honour. Helen Brady appearing
14 for the Prosecution, and with me today is Ms. Norul Rashid, and our case
15 manager Ms. Lourdes Galicia.
16 JUDGE WEINBERG DE ROCA: Thank you. For the -- for Mr. Kvocka, I
17 understand that Mr. Simic is on line. Mr. Simic, can you hear us?
18 MR. K. SIMIC: [Interpretation] Yes, I can hear you. I hear you.
19 Good afternoon, Your Honour.
20 JUDGE WEINBERG DE ROCA: Thank you very much. For Mr. Radic, the
21 appearances, please.
22 MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honour. My
23 name is Zoran Jovanovic, attorney, and I appear together with Mr. Toma
24 Fila who is absent today, but we are the Defence team of the accused
25 Mladjo Radic. Thank you.
1 JUDGE WEINBERG DE ROCA: For Mr. Zigic, please.
2 MR. STOJANOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, good afternoon. My
3 name is Slobodan Stojanovic, and I represent the Defence counsel for Mr.
4 Zoran Zigic.
5 JUDGE WEINBERG DE ROCA: And for Mr. Prcac.
6 MR. J. SIMIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honour. My
7 name is Jovan Simic, attorney, and I am Defence counsel for Mr. Dragoljub
8 Prcac. Thank you.
9 JUDGE WEINBERG DE ROCA: Thank you very much. I would like to
10 know if the accused can understand the proceedings. Mr. Radic, please.
11 THE APPELLANT RADIC: [Indicates]
12 JUDGE WEINBERG DE ROCA: Mr. Zigic.
13 THE APPELLANT ZIGIC: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour.
14 JUDGE WEINBERG DE ROCA: And Mr. Prcac.
15 THE APPELLANT PRCAC: [Interpretation] Yes.
16 JUDGE WEINBERG DE ROCA: This is a Status Conference pursuant to
17 Rule 65 bis. This morning, the Presiding Judge has signed two decisions,
18 one decision on the new evidence, on the four motions pursuant to Rule
19 115, and one decision scheduling the hearings in this case. I understand
20 the Prosecution received them a bit earlier and that the accused -- the
21 Defence counsel present have only received them a few minutes ago and that
22 Mr. Simic has yet not been served. Is that correct?
23 MR. K. SIMIC: [Interpretation] Yes. The Defence of Mr. Kvocka has
24 still not received that material, but we expect to receive it shortly.
25 JUDGE WEINBERG DE ROCA: Thank you very much, Mr. Simic.
1 Is there any questions the Defence counsel want to raise during
2 the Status Conference?
3 MR. STOJANOVIC: [Interpretation] With your permission, Your
4 Honour, on behalf of Mr. Zigic, regardless of the fact that the decision
5 has been made with respect to the schedule and the Scheduling Order has in
6 fact been received, we should like to raise two issues and to try to
7 explain things.
8 The first point is the disclosure of certain documents and
9 material, and within the frameworks of disclosure there are a couple of
10 problems. The first is that before this Tribunal there is an ongoing
11 trial for other individuals for the same acts, and that that is being
12 hidden from me and Mr. Zigic and from myself as his Defence counsel.
13 Now, you will tell me that this is confidential material and data
14 with respect to us. However, the indictment for those same acts and
15 crimes against other individuals and also the accompanying material as an
16 annex to the indictment exists; on the other hand, witnesses are being
17 heard who testified against Mr. Zigic. They're being heard in other
18 trials under pseudonyms that we are not aware of so that we cannot know
19 how they testified about the same events that they testified in our trial.
20 And the third point with respect to disclosure that I wanted to
21 say, and I think the Prosecution could be of most help to us there, we
22 have heard unofficially that in Prijedor some material has been seized by
23 the security service. There is a lot of that material, and we assume that
24 there is much in it which has to do with our indictment and the judgement.
25 So I think that the OTP can be of great assistance there.
1 So that was the first problem, disclosure with respect to certain
2 material and facts. And the second problem was a question of payment. I
3 must say that my presence at some of the scheduled court hearings will
4 have to remain an open question because I have arrived here today at my
5 own cost, as I have done several times in the past. For 18 months, I have
6 received no payment for my work at all, and I feel that this will be a
7 problem for me if I am to appear in future. It is a problem of my very
8 existence. Not only do I have to pay my own expenses, but I have to leave
9 the work that I do which provides me with a salary and income. I have to
10 pay for my own accommodation, my own travel expenses, et cetera.
11 Now, I didn't ask for a set salary, but it is very difficult for
12 me to continue in this way because I have been doing this for 18 months.
13 Mr. Zigic himself has said that he is indigent, that he doesn't have the
14 means to pay me for my services. The legal aid service has told me that
15 it is my duty to work as a Defence counsel regardless if I'm paid for my
16 services or not. So if I can use a more humourous term and say that this
17 is forced labour in a way, and I know that forced labour was a subject
18 discussed in this court of law, but I don't know whether this coercion
19 will be -- not only is it not paid, but the person providing the service
20 is forced to pay for his own accommodation and travel expenses.
21 So as I say, the question of my continued appearance in court
22 remains open. It is of course my desire to help both the Tribunal and
23 Mr. Zigic himself, however, under the present conditions, this is a very
24 real problem that I have to contend with. Thank you very much.
25 JUDGE WEINBERG DE ROCA: Thank you very much. Does the
12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and
13 English transcripts.
1 Prosecution want to respond to the aspect of disclosure?
2 MS. BRADY: Thank you. Thank you, Your Honour. The Prosecution
3 at present is up-to-date in its review for Rule 68. We have conducted the
4 searches of our evidence collection up until the end of 2003, and last
5 week, the 10th of February, we disclosed a further two documents to the
6 appellants which came out of that review.
7 Mr. Stojanovic mentioned the related trials, and I assume he's
8 meaning by that the case of Meakic and others and the Brdjanin case. Your
9 Honour, our searches encompass ongoing trials, and as we discover any
10 material, we, in accordance with our continuing obligations to disclose,
11 do provide this material to the appellants, so there can be no question of
12 hidden evidence in these matters.
13 In terms of Mr. Stojanovic's submission relating to -- that he
14 heard that there had been material seized in Prijedor, Your Honours, I'm
15 not in a position to speak directly on that at this point. I can say that
16 if the material has now entered into our evidence collection, this would
17 also have been covered by our searches. But to be on the safe side, of
18 course, after this Status Conference I can make some inquiries to make
19 certain that our searches have included this material and will of course
20 do the necessary reviews and provide it to the appellants, if any, as soon
21 as we can. Thank you.
22 JUDGE WEINBERG DE ROCA: Thank you very much. Before responding
23 to Mr. Stojanovic, I would like to know if other Defence counsel want to
24 raise any question now.
25 MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] No, Your Honour. We have become
1 acquainted with the contents of the decisions and rulings with respect to
2 the motion for additional evidence with respect to Mr. Radic. The
3 proposal was refused, so as far as Radic's team goes, up to the 23rd of
4 March we have nothing to add. Thank you.
5 JUDGE WEINBERG DE ROCA: Thank you very much.
6 MR. J. SIMIC: [Interpretation] I have no questions, Your Honour,
7 and I don't want to broach any new subjects because we have been given the
8 ruling that we have been waiting for such a long time. Thank you.
9 JUDGE WEINBERG DE ROCA: Thank you very much, then. What I would
10 suggest to the Defence counsel of Mr. Zigic is that with regard to
11 disclosure, he should seek access to the Trial Chamber under Rule 75(J) to
12 ask for access of such evidence or material as he deems necessary.
13 With respect to the second motion, it is the intention of the
14 Bench to make a decision on Mr. Zigic's appeal against the decision of the
15 Registry regarding the payment of the fees of Defence counsel, but this is
16 nothing which can be decided within the framework of a Status Conference.
17 Mr. Simic, would you like to add something?
18 MR. K. SIMIC: [Interpretation] I would have something to say with
19 respect to Rule 115.
20 JUDGE WEINBERG DE ROCA: Please go ahead.
21 MR. K. SIMIC: [Interpretation] Or, rather, I do not have -- I have
22 nothing to bring up at this point. Thank you.
23 JUDGE WEINBERG DE ROCA: Thank you very much. The Prosecution.
24 MS. BRADY: Yes, Your Honour. If I can just raise two points.
25 Firstly, the Prosecution is reviewing the decision of this morning
1 concerning the 115 decision, and if we have any difficulties in meeting
2 the 27 February deadline for the filing of rebuttal, we will let you know
3 immediately. At this point, we don't anticipate any difficulties in light
4 of the nature -- the two witnesses have been admitted, but if we have any
5 difficulties in meeting that deadline, we'll let you know as soon as
7 The second --
8 JUDGE WEINBERG DE ROCA: Just let me add that I very much hope
9 that you have no problem meeting the deadline.
10 MS. BRADY: We hope so too, Your Honour. And the second point is
11 that, as I mentioned, we disclosed last week on February the 10th two
12 further documents to the appellants, and in light of the hearing schedule
13 and the fact that the hearing will be on the 23rd of March, the appellants
14 may like to place on the record now or at some point close in the future
15 as to whether they will be filing any further 115 motions as a result of
16 that recent disclosure or on the basis of any other material, just in
17 light of the fact that we're moving now towards a certain deadline. That
18 would be very helpful. Thank you.
19 JUDGE WEINBERG DE ROCA: Thank you very much, but I'm sure counsel
20 for the Defence will let us know if they intend to file something
22 I think then that this Status Conference can be adjourned.
23 --- Whereupon the Status Conference adjourned
24 at 3.07 p.m.