Page 1
1 Thursday, December 10th, 1998
2 (Open session)
3 (The accused entered court)
4 --- Upon commencing at 10.02 a.m.
5 JUDGE MAY: Yes. Let the registrar call the
6 case.
7 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning, Your Honours.
8 Case number IT-98-30-I, the Prosecutor versus Miroslav
9 Kvocka, Milojica Kos, Mladen Radic and Zoran Zigic.
10 JUDGE MAY: The appearances, please.
11 MR. NIEMANN: Good morning, Your Honours. My
12 name is Niemann, and I appear with my colleagues,
13 Mr. Keegan and Mr. Waydaratne, and Ms. Reynders is the
14 case manager for the Prosecution, if Your Honours
15 please.
16 JUDGE MAY: Yes. For the Defence in the
17 order of the indictment.
18 MR. SIMIC: (Interpretation) Your Honour, my
19 name is Krstan Simic, Defence counsel for Mr. Miroslav
20 Kvocka. My co-counsel is unable to attend today's
21 hearing.
22 MR. NIKOLIC: (Interpretation) Your Honour,
23 my name is Sarko Nikolic, attorney representing
24 Milojica Kos. To my left, my co-counsel, Ms. Jelena
25 Nikolic.
Page 2
1 MR. FILA: (Interpretation) Good morning,
2 Your Honours. I am attorney Toma Fila, and together
3 with co-counsel Mr. Petrovic, I represent the accused
4 Mladjo Radic.
5 MR. TOSIC: (Interpretation) Your Honours, my
6 name is Simo Tosic, representing the accused Zoran
7 Zigic. To my right, my co-counsel, Jelena Lopicic,
8 attorney from Belgrade.
9 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Tosic, let me address you
10 first. I see that your client is wearing dark
11 glasses. Now, that is not normally allowed in a
12 court. Is there a particular reason why he is wearing
13 those glasses?
14 MR. TOSIC: (Interpretation) Your Honours,
15 the main reason is the medical condition of my client,
16 since light disturbs him, and he is advised to wear
17 glasses in such conditions. That is the only reason,
18 no other.
19 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Tosic, then if he wishes to
20 apply to the Court to wear dark glasses and there is a
21 medical reason for that, he must make a formal
22 application, or you, on his behalf, must make a formal
23 application, and it must be supported, if there is a
24 medical reason, by a medical report. So before the
25 next appearance, if you want, or if your client wants
Page 3
1 to wear dark glasses, then he must formally apply. Is
2 that understood?
3 MR. TOSIC: (Interpretation) Yes, Your
4 Honours. We will do as you have advised us for the
5 next hearing.
6 JUDGE MAY: Now, let me turn next to the
7 accused to make sure that they can hear what is being
8 said in a language which they understand. Can you all
9 hear?
10 THE ACCUSED: (Interpretation) Yes, Your
11 Honours.
12 JUDGE MAY: If there is any difficulty during
13 the proceedings or any proceedings before this Trial
14 Chamber, if you have any difficulty hearing, will you
15 indicate straightaway?
16 Now, if I could turn to Defence counsel,
17 please? This appearance has been listed for the
18 accused to enter pleas to new charges on the amended
19 indictment, and there are some preliminary matters
20 which I need to deal with first, and to comply with the
21 Rules, I must ask you first to confirm the following:
22 That your client has received a copy of the indictment
23 in a language which he understands; that you have had
24 the opportunity of going through it with him; that he
25 understands it and is in a position to enter a plea.
Page 4
1 Perhaps I can ask you in the indictment order
2 to confirm those matters? Mr. Simic?
3 MR. SIMIC: (Interpretation) Your Honours, my
4 client and I have received the indictment. He
5 understands the indictment, and he is quite prepared to
6 enter a plea today. Thank you.
7 JUDGE MAY: Thank you. Mr. Nikolic?
8 MR. NIKOLIC: (Interpretation) Your Honours,
9 my answer to all your questions is in the affirmative.
10 MR. FILA: (Interpretation) Your Honours, my
11 answer is "Yes."
12 MR. TOSIC: (Interpretation) Your Honours, my
13 answer is "Yes."
14 JUDGE MAY: Thank you. And the next matter
15 is this: The Rules do allow the accused the right to
16 have the indictment read out in court in full, but they
17 also may waive that right, and before we turn to the
18 plea, I must ask you this: Do any of your clients want
19 the indictment read out in full, or will you waive the
20 right? Perhaps someone could give me an answer.
21 MR. FILA: (Interpretation) Your Honours, our
22 clients do not insist on the indictment being read, and
23 we can proceed with the pleas.
24 JUDGE MAY: Thank you, Mr. Fila. Let the
25 accused stand.
Page 5
1 I am now going to read the counts to you.
2 Will you kindly confine your answers to each count,
3 either "guilty" or "not guilty" to each?
4 Count 1, Messrs. Kvocka, Kos, and Radic, a
5 crime against humanity punishable under Articles 5(h)
6 (persecutions on political, racial or religious
7 grounds), and 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the
8 Tribunal.
9 Mr. Kvocka, how do you plead, guilty or not
10 guilty?
11 THE ACCUSED KVOCKA: (Interpretation) Your
12 Honours, I plead not guilty. I am absolutely not
13 guilty.
14 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Kos?
15 THE ACCUSED KOS: (Interpretation) Not
16 guilty.
17 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Radic?
18 THE ACCUSED RADIC: (Interpretation) Your
19 Honours, I am not guilty.
20 JUDGE MAY: Zoran Zigic, Count 1, a crime
21 against humanity, punishable under Articles 5(h)
22 (persecution on political, racial or religious grounds)
23 and 7(1) of the Statute.
24 Mr. Zigic, how do you plead, guilty or not
25 guilty?
Page 6
1 THE ACCUSED ZIGIC: (Interpretation) Not
2 guilty.
3 JUDGE MAY: Count 2, a crime against
4 humanity, Messrs. Kvocka, Kos, and Radic, punishable
5 under Articles 5(i) (inhumane acts) and 7 (1) and 7(3)
6 of the Statute.
7 Mr. Kvocka, how do you plead?
8 THE ACCUSED KVOCKA: (Interpretation) Your
9 Honours, I am absolutely not guilty.
10 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Kos?
11 THE ACCUSED KOS: (Interpretation) Your
12 Honours, not guilty.
13 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Radic?
14 THE ACCUSED RADIC: (Interpretation) Your
15 Honours, not guilty.
16 JUDGE MAY: Zoran Zigic, Count 2, crime
17 against humanity, punishable under Articles 5(i)
18 (inhumane acts) and 7(1) of the Statute.
19 Mr. Zigic, how do you plead?
20 THE ACCUSED ZIGIC: (Interpretation) Not
21 guilty.
22 JUDGE MAY: Miroslav Kvocka, Milojica Kos,
23 and Mladen Radic, on Count 3, a violation of the laws
24 or customs of war, (outrages upon personal dignity, as
25 recognised by Article 3(1)(c) of the Geneva Conventions
Page 7
1 of 1949) punishable under Articles 3 and 7(1) and 7(3)
2 of the Statute.
3 Mr. Kvocka, how do you plead?
4 THE ACCUSED KVOCKA: (Interpretation) Your
5 Honours, I am not guilty.
6 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Kos?
7 THE ACCUSED KOS: (Interpretation) Your
8 Honours, not guilty.
9 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Radic?
10 THE ACCUSED RADIC: (Interpretation) Your
11 Honours, I am not guilty.
12 JUDGE MAY: On the same count, Zoran Zigic, a
13 similar offence, a violation of the laws or customs of
14 war, as I have already read out previously, punishable
15 under Articles 3 and 7(1) of the Statute.
16 Mr. Zigic, how do you plead?
17 THE ACCUSED ZIGIC: (Interpretation) Not
18 guilty.
19 JUDGE MAY: Messrs. Kvocka, Kos, and Radic,
20 Count 4, a crime against humanity, punishable under
21 Articles 5(a) (murder) and 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute
22 of the Tribunal.
23 Mr. Kvocka, how do you plead?
24 THE ACCUSED KVOCKA: (Interpretation) Your
25 Honours, I am absolutely not guilty.
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1 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Kos?
2 THE ACCUSED KOS: (Interpretation) Not
3 guilty.
4 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Radic?
5 THE ACCUSED RADIC: (Interpretation) Your
6 Honours, I am not guilty.
7 JUDGE MAY: Count 5, a violation of the laws
8 or customs of war, (murder, as recognised by Article
9 3(1)(a) of the Geneva Conventions of 1949) punishable
10 under Articles 3 and 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute.
11 Mr. Kvocka, how do you plead?
12 THE ACCUSED KVOCKA: (Interpretation) No, I
13 am not guilty.
14 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Kos?
15 THE ACCUSED KOS: (Interpretation) Not
16 guilty.
17 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Radic?
18 THE ACCUSED RADIC: (Interpretation) Your
19 Honours, not guilty.
20 JUDGE MAY: Zoran Zigic, Count 6, a crime
21 against humanity, punishable under Article 5(a)
22 (murder) and 7(1) of the Statute.
23 Mr. Zigic, how do you plead?
24 THE ACCUSED ZIGIC: (Interpretation) Not
25 guilty.
Page 9
1 JUDGE MAY: Count 7, a violation of the laws
2 or customs of war (murder, as recognised by Article
3 (3)(1)(a) of the Geneva Conventions of 1949) punishable
4 under Articles 3 and 7(1) of the Statute.
5 Mr. Zigic, how do you plead?
6 THE ACCUSED ZIGIC: (Interpretation) Not
7 guilty.
8 JUDGE MAY: Miroslav Kvocka, Milojica Kos,
9 and Mladen Radic, Count 8, a crime against humanity,
10 punishable under Articles 5(f) (torture) and 7(1) and
11 7(3) of the Statute.
12 Mr. Kvocka, how do you plead?
13 THE ACCUSED KVOCKA: (Interpretation) Your
14 Honours, I am not guilty.
15 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Kos?
16 THE ACCUSED KOS: (Interpretation) Your
17 Honours, I am not guilty.
18 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Radic?
19 THE ACCUSED RADIC: (Interpretation) Your
20 Honours, I am not guilty.
21 JUDGE MAY: Count 10, a violation of the laws
22 or customs of war, (cruel treatment, as recognised by
23 Article 3(1)(a) of the Geneva Conventions of 1949)
24 punishable under Articles 3, 7(1), and 7(3) of the
25 Statute.
Page 10
1 Mr. Kvocka, how do you plead?
2 THE ACCUSED KVOCKA: (Interpretation) Your
3 Honours, I am absolutely not guilty.
4 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Kos?
5 THE ACCUSED KOS: (Interpretation) Your
6 Honours, I am not guilty.
7 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Radic?
8 THE ACCUSED RADIC: (Interpretation) Your
9 Honours, I am not guilty.
10 JUDGE MAY: Zoran Zigic, Count 11, a crime
11 against humanity, punishable under Articles 5(f)
12 (torture) and 7(1) of the Statute.
13 Mr. Zigic, how do you plead?
14 THE ACCUSED ZIGIC: (Interpretation) Not
15 guilty.
16 JUDGE MAY: Count 12, a violation of the laws
17 or customs of war, (torture, as recognised by Article
18 3(1)(a) of the Geneva Conventions of 1949) punishable
19 under Articles 3 and 7(1) of the Statute.
20 Mr. Zigic, how do you plead?
21 THE ACCUSED ZIGIC: (Interpretation) Not
22 guilty.
23 JUDGE MAY: Count 13, a violation of the laws
24 or customs of war, (cruel treatment, as recognised by
25 Article 3(1)(a) of the Geneva Conventions of 1949)
Page 11
1 punishable under Articles 3 and 7(1) of the Statute.
2 Mr. Zigic, how do you plead?
3 THE ACCUSED ZIGIC: (Interpretation) Not
4 guilty.
5 JUDGE MAY: Mladen Radic, Count 14, a crime
6 against humanity, punishable under Article 5(f)
7 (torture) and 7(1) of the Statute.
8 Mr. Radic, how do you plead?
9 THE ACCUSED RADIC: (Interpretation) Your
10 Honours, I am not guilty.
11 JUDGE MAY: Count 15, a crime against
12 humanity, punishable under Article 5(g) (rape) and 7(1)
13 of the Statute.
14 Mr. Radic, how do you plead?
15 THE ACCUSED RADIC: (Interpretation) Your
16 Honours, I am not guilty.
17 JUDGE MAY: Count 16, a violation of the laws
18 or customs of war, (torture, as recognised by Article
19 3(1)(a) of the Geneva Conventions of 1949) punishable
20 under Articles 3 and 7(1) of the Statute.
21 Mr. Radic, how do you plead?
22 THE ACCUSED RADIC: (Interpretation) Your
23 Honours, I am not guilty.
24 JUDGE MAY: Count 17, a violation of the laws
25 or customs of war, (outrages upon personal dignity, as
Page 12
1 recognised by Article 3(1)(c) of the Geneva Conventions
2 of 1949) punishable under Articles 3 and 7(1) of the
3 Statute of the Tribunal.
4 Mr. Radic, how do you plead?
5 THE ACCUSED RADIC: (Interpretation) Your
6 Honours, I am not guilty.
7 JUDGE MAY: Very well. Let the accused
8 remain seated.
9 Mr. Niemann, there are various outstanding
10 matters in this case. There are motions outstanding,
11 there are the questions of a timetable.
12 MR. NIEMANN: Yes, Your Honour.
13 JUDGE MAY: It may, in fact, be more
14 convenient -- it may be more convenient to discuss
15 those, or at least some of them, in a Status Conference
16 which we propose to hold immediately after this
17 appearance.
18 MR. NIEMANN: I think that would be
19 appropriate, Your Honour, yes. There are a number of
20 matters that we need to discuss, I think.
21 JUDGE MAY: The only matter which the Rules
22 require us to consider, the other matter, is the
23 question of a date for trial, and it must be said that
24 at the moment, this case is clearly not ready for
25 trial.
Page 13
1 MR. NIEMANN: There are a number of
2 outstanding motions to be dealt with, Your Honours.
3 JUDGE MAY: Yes. And again, it may be more
4 convenient to deal with all of those in a Status
5 Conference.
6 MR. NIEMANN: I think it might be. Yes, Your
7 Honour.
8 JUDGE MAY: Yes. Thank you. Mr. Fila?
9 MR. FILA: (Interpretation) Your Honour, I
10 apologise in advance if I am mistaken, but it seems to
11 me that Count number 9 has not been entered in the
12 record. Perhaps it is due to an omission on my part,
13 but Count 9 was left out. There is 8 and there is 10.
14 But if I am mistaken, I apologise.
15 JUDGE MAY: I certainly intended that it
16 should be put. If there is any doubt about it, it can
17 be put again. I see the record is being checked.
18 MR. NIEMANN: Your Honours, it appears that
19 it hasn't been read. I do apologise. I should have
20 been paying for attention to it.
21 JUDGE MAY: If it has been overlooked --
22 thank you, Mr. Fila, for drawing it to our attention.
23 If it has been overlooked, let it be put again.
24 Count 9, Mr. Kvocka, Mr. Kos, and Mr. Radic,
25 please stand. There is no need for Mr. Zigic to
Page 14
1 stand. There is no need for him to stand. It is the
2 other three accused.
3 Count 9, charges of violation of the laws and
4 customs of war (torture, as recognised by Article
5 3(1)(a) of the Geneva Conventions of 1949) punishable
6 under Articles 3, 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute.
7 Mr. Kvocka, how do you plead?
8 THE ACCUSED KVOCKA: (Interpretation) Your
9 Honours, I am not guilty.
10 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Kos?
11 THE ACCUSED KOS: (Interpretation) Your
12 Honours, not guilty.
13 JUDGE MAY: And Mr. Radic?
14 THE ACCUSED RADIC: (Interpretation) Your
15 Honours, I am not guilty.
16 JUDGE MAY: Yes. Thank you. If you would
17 like to sit down?
18 Are there any other matters which counsel may
19 wish to raise before we go into a closed Status
20 Conference? As I say, what I propose is that in the
21 Status Conference we discuss the timetable for this
22 case, including any outstanding motions which have to
23 be resolved. But that apart, are there any other
24 matters which counsel would like to raise? I will
25 take --
Page 15
1 MR. FILA: (Interpretation) Your Honours, I
2 apologise again for asking for the floor a second time,
3 but I think that we need to clarify a point from the
4 beginning. I am referring to the name of Mr. Radic.
5 His name is Mladjo Radic. In the indictment, it says
6 Mladen. I think it would be desirable for the
7 Prosecution to correct this for purposes of
8 identification. It is not a big issue, but after all,
9 I think we have to have the name correctly, whether he
10 is guilty or not guilty.
11 JUDGE MAY: Yes. It can be amended.
12 MR. NIEMANN: Yes, Your Honour. Our
13 information was that that was a street name or
14 nickname. That is how we understood it, and so that is
15 why the indictment reads the way it does. But Mr. Fila
16 has informed us this morning that, in fact, Mladjo is
17 the name he uses, and so we would apply to amend the
18 indictment in conformity with that.
19 JUDGE MAY: Yes. Well, if there is no
20 objection, let the indictment be amended.
21 Yes. That being all the matters which have
22 to be discussed at this appearance, the Chamber will
23 now move into a Status Conference, a closed session, to
24 discuss the other matters relating to the case. Can we
25 do that?
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14 status conference
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22 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned
23 at 12.02 p.m., to be reconvened on
24 Tuesday, the 9th day of March, 1998.
25