Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 1

1 Thursday, December 10th, 1998

2 (Open session)

3 (The accused entered court)

4 --- Upon commencing at 10.02 a.m.

5 JUDGE MAY: Yes. Let the registrar call the

6 case.

7 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning, Your Honours.

8 Case number IT-98-30-I, the Prosecutor versus Miroslav

9 Kvocka, Milojica Kos, Mladen Radic and Zoran Zigic.

10 JUDGE MAY: The appearances, please.

11 MR. NIEMANN: Good morning, Your Honours. My

12 name is Niemann, and I appear with my colleagues,

13 Mr. Keegan and Mr. Waydaratne, and Ms. Reynders is the

14 case manager for the Prosecution, if Your Honours

15 please.

16 JUDGE MAY: Yes. For the Defence in the

17 order of the indictment.

18 MR. SIMIC: (Interpretation) Your Honour, my

19 name is Krstan Simic, Defence counsel for Mr. Miroslav

20 Kvocka. My co-counsel is unable to attend today's

21 hearing.

22 MR. NIKOLIC: (Interpretation) Your Honour,

23 my name is Sarko Nikolic, attorney representing

24 Milojica Kos. To my left, my co-counsel, Ms. Jelena

25 Nikolic.

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1 MR. FILA: (Interpretation) Good morning,

2 Your Honours. I am attorney Toma Fila, and together

3 with co-counsel Mr. Petrovic, I represent the accused

4 Mladjo Radic.

5 MR. TOSIC: (Interpretation) Your Honours, my

6 name is Simo Tosic, representing the accused Zoran

7 Zigic. To my right, my co-counsel, Jelena Lopicic,

8 attorney from Belgrade.

9 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Tosic, let me address you

10 first. I see that your client is wearing dark

11 glasses. Now, that is not normally allowed in a

12 court. Is there a particular reason why he is wearing

13 those glasses?

14 MR. TOSIC: (Interpretation) Your Honours,

15 the main reason is the medical condition of my client,

16 since light disturbs him, and he is advised to wear

17 glasses in such conditions. That is the only reason,

18 no other.

19 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Tosic, then if he wishes to

20 apply to the Court to wear dark glasses and there is a

21 medical reason for that, he must make a formal

22 application, or you, on his behalf, must make a formal

23 application, and it must be supported, if there is a

24 medical reason, by a medical report. So before the

25 next appearance, if you want, or if your client wants

Page 3

1 to wear dark glasses, then he must formally apply. Is

2 that understood?

3 MR. TOSIC: (Interpretation) Yes, Your

4 Honours. We will do as you have advised us for the

5 next hearing.

6 JUDGE MAY: Now, let me turn next to the

7 accused to make sure that they can hear what is being

8 said in a language which they understand. Can you all

9 hear?

10 THE ACCUSED: (Interpretation) Yes, Your

11 Honours.

12 JUDGE MAY: If there is any difficulty during

13 the proceedings or any proceedings before this Trial

14 Chamber, if you have any difficulty hearing, will you

15 indicate straightaway?

16 Now, if I could turn to Defence counsel,

17 please? This appearance has been listed for the

18 accused to enter pleas to new charges on the amended

19 indictment, and there are some preliminary matters

20 which I need to deal with first, and to comply with the

21 Rules, I must ask you first to confirm the following:

22 That your client has received a copy of the indictment

23 in a language which he understands; that you have had

24 the opportunity of going through it with him; that he

25 understands it and is in a position to enter a plea.

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1 Perhaps I can ask you in the indictment order

2 to confirm those matters? Mr. Simic?

3 MR. SIMIC: (Interpretation) Your Honours, my

4 client and I have received the indictment. He

5 understands the indictment, and he is quite prepared to

6 enter a plea today. Thank you.

7 JUDGE MAY: Thank you. Mr. Nikolic?

8 MR. NIKOLIC: (Interpretation) Your Honours,

9 my answer to all your questions is in the affirmative.

10 MR. FILA: (Interpretation) Your Honours, my

11 answer is "Yes."

12 MR. TOSIC: (Interpretation) Your Honours, my

13 answer is "Yes."

14 JUDGE MAY: Thank you. And the next matter

15 is this: The Rules do allow the accused the right to

16 have the indictment read out in court in full, but they

17 also may waive that right, and before we turn to the

18 plea, I must ask you this: Do any of your clients want

19 the indictment read out in full, or will you waive the

20 right? Perhaps someone could give me an answer.

21 MR. FILA: (Interpretation) Your Honours, our

22 clients do not insist on the indictment being read, and

23 we can proceed with the pleas.

24 JUDGE MAY: Thank you, Mr. Fila. Let the

25 accused stand.

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1 I am now going to read the counts to you.

2 Will you kindly confine your answers to each count,

3 either "guilty" or "not guilty" to each?

4 Count 1, Messrs. Kvocka, Kos, and Radic, a

5 crime against humanity punishable under Articles 5(h)

6 (persecutions on political, racial or religious

7 grounds), and 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the

8 Tribunal.

9 Mr. Kvocka, how do you plead, guilty or not

10 guilty?

11 THE ACCUSED KVOCKA: (Interpretation) Your

12 Honours, I plead not guilty. I am absolutely not

13 guilty.

14 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Kos?

15 THE ACCUSED KOS: (Interpretation) Not

16 guilty.

17 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Radic?

18 THE ACCUSED RADIC: (Interpretation) Your

19 Honours, I am not guilty.

20 JUDGE MAY: Zoran Zigic, Count 1, a crime

21 against humanity, punishable under Articles 5(h)

22 (persecution on political, racial or religious grounds)

23 and 7(1) of the Statute.

24 Mr. Zigic, how do you plead, guilty or not

25 guilty?

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1 THE ACCUSED ZIGIC: (Interpretation) Not

2 guilty.

3 JUDGE MAY: Count 2, a crime against

4 humanity, Messrs. Kvocka, Kos, and Radic, punishable

5 under Articles 5(i) (inhumane acts) and 7 (1) and 7(3)

6 of the Statute.

7 Mr. Kvocka, how do you plead?

8 THE ACCUSED KVOCKA: (Interpretation) Your

9 Honours, I am absolutely not guilty.

10 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Kos?

11 THE ACCUSED KOS: (Interpretation) Your

12 Honours, not guilty.

13 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Radic?

14 THE ACCUSED RADIC: (Interpretation) Your

15 Honours, not guilty.

16 JUDGE MAY: Zoran Zigic, Count 2, crime

17 against humanity, punishable under Articles 5(i)

18 (inhumane acts) and 7(1) of the Statute.

19 Mr. Zigic, how do you plead?

20 THE ACCUSED ZIGIC: (Interpretation) Not

21 guilty.

22 JUDGE MAY: Miroslav Kvocka, Milojica Kos,

23 and Mladen Radic, on Count 3, a violation of the laws

24 or customs of war, (outrages upon personal dignity, as

25 recognised by Article 3(1)(c) of the Geneva Conventions

Page 7

1 of 1949) punishable under Articles 3 and 7(1) and 7(3)

2 of the Statute.

3 Mr. Kvocka, how do you plead?

4 THE ACCUSED KVOCKA: (Interpretation) Your

5 Honours, I am not guilty.

6 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Kos?

7 THE ACCUSED KOS: (Interpretation) Your

8 Honours, not guilty.

9 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Radic?

10 THE ACCUSED RADIC: (Interpretation) Your

11 Honours, I am not guilty.

12 JUDGE MAY: On the same count, Zoran Zigic, a

13 similar offence, a violation of the laws or customs of

14 war, as I have already read out previously, punishable

15 under Articles 3 and 7(1) of the Statute.

16 Mr. Zigic, how do you plead?

17 THE ACCUSED ZIGIC: (Interpretation) Not

18 guilty.

19 JUDGE MAY: Messrs. Kvocka, Kos, and Radic,

20 Count 4, a crime against humanity, punishable under

21 Articles 5(a) (murder) and 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute

22 of the Tribunal.

23 Mr. Kvocka, how do you plead?

24 THE ACCUSED KVOCKA: (Interpretation) Your

25 Honours, I am absolutely not guilty.

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1 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Kos?

2 THE ACCUSED KOS: (Interpretation) Not

3 guilty.

4 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Radic?

5 THE ACCUSED RADIC: (Interpretation) Your

6 Honours, I am not guilty.

7 JUDGE MAY: Count 5, a violation of the laws

8 or customs of war, (murder, as recognised by Article

9 3(1)(a) of the Geneva Conventions of 1949) punishable

10 under Articles 3 and 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute.

11 Mr. Kvocka, how do you plead?

12 THE ACCUSED KVOCKA: (Interpretation) No, I

13 am not guilty.

14 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Kos?

15 THE ACCUSED KOS: (Interpretation) Not

16 guilty.

17 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Radic?

18 THE ACCUSED RADIC: (Interpretation) Your

19 Honours, not guilty.

20 JUDGE MAY: Zoran Zigic, Count 6, a crime

21 against humanity, punishable under Article 5(a)

22 (murder) and 7(1) of the Statute.

23 Mr. Zigic, how do you plead?

24 THE ACCUSED ZIGIC: (Interpretation) Not

25 guilty.

Page 9

1 JUDGE MAY: Count 7, a violation of the laws

2 or customs of war (murder, as recognised by Article

3 (3)(1)(a) of the Geneva Conventions of 1949) punishable

4 under Articles 3 and 7(1) of the Statute.

5 Mr. Zigic, how do you plead?

6 THE ACCUSED ZIGIC: (Interpretation) Not

7 guilty.

8 JUDGE MAY: Miroslav Kvocka, Milojica Kos,

9 and Mladen Radic, Count 8, a crime against humanity,

10 punishable under Articles 5(f) (torture) and 7(1) and

11 7(3) of the Statute.

12 Mr. Kvocka, how do you plead?

13 THE ACCUSED KVOCKA: (Interpretation) Your

14 Honours, I am not guilty.

15 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Kos?

16 THE ACCUSED KOS: (Interpretation) Your

17 Honours, I am not guilty.

18 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Radic?

19 THE ACCUSED RADIC: (Interpretation) Your

20 Honours, I am not guilty.

21 JUDGE MAY: Count 10, a violation of the laws

22 or customs of war, (cruel treatment, as recognised by

23 Article 3(1)(a) of the Geneva Conventions of 1949)

24 punishable under Articles 3, 7(1), and 7(3) of the

25 Statute.

Page 10

1 Mr. Kvocka, how do you plead?

2 THE ACCUSED KVOCKA: (Interpretation) Your

3 Honours, I am absolutely not guilty.

4 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Kos?

5 THE ACCUSED KOS: (Interpretation) Your

6 Honours, I am not guilty.

7 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Radic?

8 THE ACCUSED RADIC: (Interpretation) Your

9 Honours, I am not guilty.

10 JUDGE MAY: Zoran Zigic, Count 11, a crime

11 against humanity, punishable under Articles 5(f)

12 (torture) and 7(1) of the Statute.

13 Mr. Zigic, how do you plead?

14 THE ACCUSED ZIGIC: (Interpretation) Not

15 guilty.

16 JUDGE MAY: Count 12, a violation of the laws

17 or customs of war, (torture, as recognised by Article

18 3(1)(a) of the Geneva Conventions of 1949) punishable

19 under Articles 3 and 7(1) of the Statute.

20 Mr. Zigic, how do you plead?

21 THE ACCUSED ZIGIC: (Interpretation) Not

22 guilty.

23 JUDGE MAY: Count 13, a violation of the laws

24 or customs of war, (cruel treatment, as recognised by

25 Article 3(1)(a) of the Geneva Conventions of 1949)

Page 11

1 punishable under Articles 3 and 7(1) of the Statute.

2 Mr. Zigic, how do you plead?

3 THE ACCUSED ZIGIC: (Interpretation) Not

4 guilty.

5 JUDGE MAY: Mladen Radic, Count 14, a crime

6 against humanity, punishable under Article 5(f)

7 (torture) and 7(1) of the Statute.

8 Mr. Radic, how do you plead?

9 THE ACCUSED RADIC: (Interpretation) Your

10 Honours, I am not guilty.

11 JUDGE MAY: Count 15, a crime against

12 humanity, punishable under Article 5(g) (rape) and 7(1)

13 of the Statute.

14 Mr. Radic, how do you plead?

15 THE ACCUSED RADIC: (Interpretation) Your

16 Honours, I am not guilty.

17 JUDGE MAY: Count 16, a violation of the laws

18 or customs of war, (torture, as recognised by Article

19 3(1)(a) of the Geneva Conventions of 1949) punishable

20 under Articles 3 and 7(1) of the Statute.

21 Mr. Radic, how do you plead?

22 THE ACCUSED RADIC: (Interpretation) Your

23 Honours, I am not guilty.

24 JUDGE MAY: Count 17, a violation of the laws

25 or customs of war, (outrages upon personal dignity, as

Page 12

1 recognised by Article 3(1)(c) of the Geneva Conventions

2 of 1949) punishable under Articles 3 and 7(1) of the

3 Statute of the Tribunal.

4 Mr. Radic, how do you plead?

5 THE ACCUSED RADIC: (Interpretation) Your

6 Honours, I am not guilty.

7 JUDGE MAY: Very well. Let the accused

8 remain seated.

9 Mr. Niemann, there are various outstanding

10 matters in this case. There are motions outstanding,

11 there are the questions of a timetable.

12 MR. NIEMANN: Yes, Your Honour.

13 JUDGE MAY: It may, in fact, be more

14 convenient -- it may be more convenient to discuss

15 those, or at least some of them, in a Status Conference

16 which we propose to hold immediately after this

17 appearance.

18 MR. NIEMANN: I think that would be

19 appropriate, Your Honour, yes. There are a number of

20 matters that we need to discuss, I think.

21 JUDGE MAY: The only matter which the Rules

22 require us to consider, the other matter, is the

23 question of a date for trial, and it must be said that

24 at the moment, this case is clearly not ready for

25 trial.

Page 13

1 MR. NIEMANN: There are a number of

2 outstanding motions to be dealt with, Your Honours.

3 JUDGE MAY: Yes. And again, it may be more

4 convenient to deal with all of those in a Status

5 Conference.

6 MR. NIEMANN: I think it might be. Yes, Your

7 Honour.

8 JUDGE MAY: Yes. Thank you. Mr. Fila?

9 MR. FILA: (Interpretation) Your Honour, I

10 apologise in advance if I am mistaken, but it seems to

11 me that Count number 9 has not been entered in the

12 record. Perhaps it is due to an omission on my part,

13 but Count 9 was left out. There is 8 and there is 10.

14 But if I am mistaken, I apologise.

15 JUDGE MAY: I certainly intended that it

16 should be put. If there is any doubt about it, it can

17 be put again. I see the record is being checked.

18 MR. NIEMANN: Your Honours, it appears that

19 it hasn't been read. I do apologise. I should have

20 been paying for attention to it.

21 JUDGE MAY: If it has been overlooked --

22 thank you, Mr. Fila, for drawing it to our attention.

23 If it has been overlooked, let it be put again.

24 Count 9, Mr. Kvocka, Mr. Kos, and Mr. Radic,

25 please stand. There is no need for Mr. Zigic to

Page 14

1 stand. There is no need for him to stand. It is the

2 other three accused.

3 Count 9, charges of violation of the laws and

4 customs of war (torture, as recognised by Article

5 3(1)(a) of the Geneva Conventions of 1949) punishable

6 under Articles 3, 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute.

7 Mr. Kvocka, how do you plead?

8 THE ACCUSED KVOCKA: (Interpretation) Your

9 Honours, I am not guilty.

10 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Kos?

11 THE ACCUSED KOS: (Interpretation) Your

12 Honours, not guilty.

13 JUDGE MAY: And Mr. Radic?

14 THE ACCUSED RADIC: (Interpretation) Your

15 Honours, I am not guilty.

16 JUDGE MAY: Yes. Thank you. If you would

17 like to sit down?

18 Are there any other matters which counsel may

19 wish to raise before we go into a closed Status

20 Conference? As I say, what I propose is that in the

21 Status Conference we discuss the timetable for this

22 case, including any outstanding motions which have to

23 be resolved. But that apart, are there any other

24 matters which counsel would like to raise? I will

25 take --

Page 15

1 MR. FILA: (Interpretation) Your Honours, I

2 apologise again for asking for the floor a second time,

3 but I think that we need to clarify a point from the

4 beginning. I am referring to the name of Mr. Radic.

5 His name is Mladjo Radic. In the indictment, it says

6 Mladen. I think it would be desirable for the

7 Prosecution to correct this for purposes of

8 identification. It is not a big issue, but after all,

9 I think we have to have the name correctly, whether he

10 is guilty or not guilty.

11 JUDGE MAY: Yes. It can be amended.

12 MR. NIEMANN: Yes, Your Honour. Our

13 information was that that was a street name or

14 nickname. That is how we understood it, and so that is

15 why the indictment reads the way it does. But Mr. Fila

16 has informed us this morning that, in fact, Mladjo is

17 the name he uses, and so we would apply to amend the

18 indictment in conformity with that.

19 JUDGE MAY: Yes. Well, if there is no

20 objection, let the indictment be amended.

21 Yes. That being all the matters which have

22 to be discussed at this appearance, the Chamber will

23 now move into a Status Conference, a closed session, to

24 discuss the other matters relating to the case. Can we

25 do that?

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13 pages 16-44 redacted closed session

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22 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned

23 at 12.02 p.m., to be reconvened on

24 Tuesday, the 9th day of March, 1998.

25