1 Friday, 30 November 2001
2 [Initial Appearance]
3 [Open session]
4 [The accused entered court]
5 --- Upon commencing at 2.35 p.m.
6 JUDGE LIU: Call the case, please, Madam Registrar.
7 THE REGISTRAR: Case number IT-01-41-I, the Prosecutor versus
8 Pasko Ljubicic.
9 JUDGE LIU: May we have appearances, please. For the
11 MR. CAYLEY: May it please the Court, Mr. President, my name is
12 Cayley, and I appear on behalf of the Prosecutor with my colleague
13 Ms. Magda Karagiannakis, and the case manager this afternoon is Kamala
14 Janakiram. I'm actually standing in as senior trial attorney on this case
15 for Mr. Harmon, who is absent from the office. He will in fact be the
16 permanently assigned senior trial attorney assigned for this case.
17 JUDGE LIU: Thank you.
18 For the accused?
19 MR. JONJIC: My name is Jonjic, Mr. President. I am the attorney
20 for Mr. Ljubicic.
21 JUDGE LIU: Thank you.
22 Mr. Ljubicic, will you please stand up? I will ask you some
23 questions. Can you hear the proceedings in a language that you
25 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, I can.
1 THE INTERPRETER: Could also the microphone be placed closer to
2 the accused or turned on? Thank you.
3 JUDGE LIU: May I have your full name, please.
4 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] My name is Pasko Ljubicic.
5 JUDGE LIU: What is the date upon which you believe you were
7 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] 15 November, 1965.
8 JUDGE LIU: What is the address at which you resided before you
9 were arrested?
10 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Grga Novak street, number 28, in
11 Zadar, Croatia.
12 JUDGE LIU: Thank you. You may sit down, please.
13 We are here this afternoon for the Initial Appearance of the
14 accused in accordance with Rule 62 of the Rules of Procedure and Evidence,
15 upon his transfer to the Tribunal.
16 I should inform you that this case has been assigned by the order
17 of the President to Trial Chamber I. Sitting on my right is His
18 Excellency Judge Mohamed Elmadhi from Egypt. Sitting on my left is His
19 Excellency Judge Alphons Orie from the Netherlands. My name is Judge
20 Daqun Liu from China, the Presiding Judge in Trial Chamber I.
21 Mr. Jonjic, has your client received a copy of the indictment in a
22 language which he understands?
23 MR. JONJIC: Yes, he did, Mr. President.
24 JUDGE LIU: Have you had a chance to go through it?
25 MR. JONJIC: Yes, we did.
1 JUDGE LIU: Does your client fully understand the nature of this
3 MR. JONJIC: Yes, the accused is fully aware of the indictment.
4 JUDGE LIU: If you have discussed the contents of the indictment
5 fully with your client, may I know whether he wishes the indictment to be
6 read out in full, which is his right, or he wishes to waive his right?
7 MR. JONJIC: It's not necessary to read the whole indictment.
8 JUDGE LIU: I'm very grateful to hear that.
9 Does your client know that he must plead to the charges in the
10 indictment within 30 days of the Initial Appearance? And if he so wishes,
11 he can also do that today. Is he ready to enter a plea today?
12 MR. JONJIC: Yes, he is ready to enter a plea today.
13 JUDGE LIU: Thank you.
14 Mr. Ljubicic, would you please stand up. I propose to read out to
15 you just the charges, and then I will ask you, "How do you plead to those
16 charges; guilty or not guilty?" Your answer in each case should be
17 "guilty" or "not guilty," as the case may be. Is that clear?
18 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, it is.
19 JUDGE LIU: The first count against you is a charge of
20 persecutions on political, racial, or religious ground, being a crime
21 against humanity.
22 How do you plead; guilty or not guilty?
23 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.
24 JUDGE LIU: Very well. The second count is a charge of unlawful
25 attack on civilians as a violation of the laws or customs of war. How do
12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and
13 English transcripts.
1 you plead; guilty or not guilty?
2 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.
3 JUDGE LIU: The third count is a charge of murder, being in
4 violation of the laws or customs of war. How do you plead; guilty or not
6 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.
7 JUDGE LIU: The fourth count is another charge of murder, being a
8 crime against humanity. Do you plead guilty or not guilty?
9 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.
10 JUDGE LIU: The fifth count is a charge of violence to life and
11 person as a violation of the laws and customs of war. How do you plead;
12 guilty or not guilty?
13 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.
14 JUDGE LIU: The sixth count is a charge of unhumane acts, being a
15 crime against humanity. How do you plead; guilty or not guilty?
16 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.
17 JUDGE LIU: The seventh count is a charge of devastation not
18 justified by military necessity charged as a violation of the laws or
19 customs of war. How do you plead; guilty or not guilty?
20 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.
21 JUDGE LIU: The eighth count is a charge of destruction or willful
22 damage to institutions dedicated to religion or education, being a
23 violation of laws or customs of war. How do you plead; guilty or not
25 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.
1 JUDGE LIU: The ninth count is a charge of plunder of public or
2 private property, being a violation of the laws and customs of war. How
3 do you plead; guilty or not guilty?
4 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.
5 JUDGE LIU: The tenth count is a charge of cruel treatment as a
6 violation of laws or customs of war. How do you plead; guilty or not
8 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.
9 JUDGE LIU: The eleventh count is a charge of inhumane acts as a
10 crime against humanity. How do you plead; guilty or not guilty?
11 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.
12 JUDGE LIU: Very well. You may sit down, please, sir.
13 The Registrar will be instructed to fix a date for trial when
14 appropriate, and the accused is remanded in custody until further order.
15 The Trial Chamber has designated Judge Elmadhi as the Pre-Trial Judge. A
16 Status Conference will be scheduled to take place within 120 days of this
17 Initial Appearance in accordance with Rule 65 bis, and all of you will be
18 informed of that date.
19 At this moment, I would like to remind the prosecutors of your
20 obligations under Rule 66(A)(i) of the rules of the procedure and evidence
21 with regard to the disclosure of the supporting materials within 30 days
22 of today.
23 I also would like to remind counsel of the accused whether you
24 will continue to serve as his counsel after today or not. The preliminary
25 motions pursuant to Rule 72 may be filed on behalf of the accused no later
1 than 20 days after disclosure by the prosecutors pursuant to
2 Rule 62(A)(i).
3 Is there any matter which the Prosecution which to raise at this
4 stage? Mr. Cayley.
5 MR. CAYLEY: Thank you, Mr. President, just one matter. You
6 referred the Prosecutor to her obligation under Rule 66(A)(i) in respect
7 of disclosure of the supporting material. I can inform the Court that I
8 met with Mr. Jonjic at 2.00 before the proceedings, and I can also inform
9 the Court that we substantially complied at that time with our obligation
10 under Rule 66(A)(i) in that we have made disclosure of all of the
11 supporting material to the indictment except for one matter, and that is
12 this: Part of the supporting material consists of court transcripts from
13 the Blaskic case.
14 Whilst we have disclosed those transcripts in English, which
15 Mr. Jonjic understands, we are yet to provide to the Defence, in a
16 language -- these transcripts in a language that the accused can
17 understand - in the Croatian language - and we are in the process of
18 organising either audio or videotapes of the proceedings relevant to those
19 transcripts, which will contain the audio recording in the Croatian
20 language of the proceedings, and we will do that within the 30-day time
21 limit that the Rules prescribe.
22 JUDGE LIU: Thank you very much for your information.
23 Mr. Jonjic, do you want to raise any matters at this stage?
24 MR. JONJIC: No, it's not necessary, Mr. President.
25 JUDGE LIU: Well, are you going to be with your client for the
1 whole trial or just for this Initial Appearance?
2 MR. JONJIC: For the whole trial.
3 JUDGE LIU: Thank you very much. I believe you'll have much more
4 chance to talk to your client about his rights. Thank you.
5 [Trial Chamber confers]
6 JUDGE LIU: I believe that is all. We will now adjourn the
8 --- Whereupon the Initial Appearance adjourned at
9 2.49 p.m.